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The_Tyrant
02-20-2006, 05:56 AM
Im going to start a mod that focuses on

Correcting gun info (especially to the shotguns)
Adding extra guns
and allround realism

So far I have changed 60% of the gun names
have adjusted most of the shotguns
added an extra Desert Eagle (.50)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6282/r6gunmod1od.jpg

I might need a small team to help out
I will also be opening a freebie forum very soon
just let me know what you think here

thanks

KoldStrejke
02-20-2006, 07:14 AM
Thanks, Looks Like Good Work. This Game Needs Moders, Heck If Every One Starts Moding We Will Get The Plugins Sooner then expected.

What I Want To See Is A more weapons For THis Game.

keith705
02-20-2006, 11:04 AM
let me know when you start working on the weapon stats themselves. I'm about half done with as complete re-balance of the character health, weapon damage and weapon performance values.

I've managed to make shot placement count, make the SMGs feel better than the rifles when moving, make the pistols the easiest weapon to use while moving and scaled the damage values so more powerful weapons feel more powerful (shot placement becomes less critical). I've also reduced the ammunition carried down to more realistic numbers, removed high-capacity magazines from most weapons (all secondaries since they have unlimited ammo) and added extra effects to the attachments. For one example, if you add a supressor you're adding weight to the barrel and it affects the "mobility" of the weapon.

It's nice to choose a weapon based on its characteristics again. Anyway, if you want some help send me a PM here or email me (same username at yahoo.com).

subzero1900
02-20-2006, 11:42 AM
if at all possible make 2 dupliactes of shotguns...1 for slugs and 1 for buckshot (would be nice if there were options for ammuniton types but UBI/RSE slacked there too)

KungFu_CIA
02-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by subzero1900:
if at all possible make 2 dupliactes of shotguns...1 for slugs and 1 for buckshot (would be nice if there were options for ammuniton types but UBI/RSE slacked there too)

Actually, it should be quite easy to create a new projectile or ammo type since this is the Ghost Recon engine. I haven't looked into your idea extensively, but off the top of my head it should be feasible.

The_Tyrant
02-20-2006, 03:27 PM
Great idea subzero
I can easy add that idea. Will do it right away

Keith, sounds like we can swap ideas on the demage system

This is that freebie forum I was talking about
project updates will be posted here
http://p4.forumforfree.com/wrmod.html

thanks all
The_Tyrant (AKA MurdaMoney)

toastytoast
02-20-2006, 06:54 PM
Got the RPG working, however AI wont use it; reverting to secondary weapons.

Using it myself, there is no visible gun, only the projectile.

SoK-John
02-20-2006, 07:01 PM
I have a Forum you can use and a Teamspeak Server Id also like to help as i have been messing with some of the missions etc.. Please Let me know or contact me.

Http://www.soldierzofkaos.com jump on coms on right hand side just click a channel. You can get Teamspeak @ http://www.goteamspeak.com. Let me know what you want to do id like to see this game grow.

You can also drop me an email @ sok-admin@soldierzofkaos.com

KungFu_CIA
02-20-2006, 07:45 PM
I have a radical idea which I will post here just for the Hell of it:

We know this is not a very good Rainbow Six game.

Fine.

Most of us modders have already moved past this and are working with what we've got and are having fun with the game nonetheless.

What I propose is not only combining our talents (as stated above), but just go ahead and make a TC (Total Conversion) of the game into something it is more suited to like an...

ATF, FBI, DEA, U.S. Customs, Bounty Hunter-type game whose emphasis (in both MP and SP) is action rather than Rainbow Six "tactical realism".

The reason I say this is all the elements are there (here). It has a solid foundation for a good CQB-action game... Just not a good R6 game.

If you dig around the actual files there is a lot of stuff they didn't use and once (if) the plug-ins come out we can modify certain things (as well as create new maps) to be more in line with these types of games rather than R6.

This is a good engine and easy to mod to where you don't need a lot of scripting and/or actual knowledge of C++ like a lot of modding requires to make half-way decent mods and conversions as most of it is visual (new models and maps).

What do you think? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yen Lo
02-20-2006, 08:29 PM
Thats an excellent idea KF. Seriously, more than a few of us are wondering about the future here if there is "just" Lockdown, till who knows what. A mod of epic proportions would keep me interested at least.
BTW is Gunny posting over in the RSDAC forums?

KungFu_CIA
02-20-2006, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Yen Lo:
Thats an excellent idea KF. Seriously, more than a few of us are wondering about the future here if there is "just" Lockdown, till who knows what. A mod of epic proportions would keep me interested at least.

Here is what I've been working on so far:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/jconnor/chavez.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/jconnor/price.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/jconnor/raymond.jpg

Before we get the normal, "OMFG! They're not wearing helmets! Lame!" posts from LD haters...

THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT of these examples.

I am tinkering around with the different skins and models and once I figure out the system, I can look into the MP part of things and possibly "unlock" all the skins like a lot of Ghost Recon Mods did.

Also, as I stated, don't these look more like Special Forces/Navy Seal operators than Rainbow Six without the helmets and balacavas?

When the plug-in comes out I can also recolor their jump suit to be more Navy Blue like ATF, FBI and others wear as well... Which is why I think a TC of something along these lines will come off much more successful than Rainbow Six.

Brettzies
02-20-2006, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
Here is what I've been working on so far:
Good stuff man. I look forward to seeing your complete mod if you do one like you did for RvS. It was the best way to play imo. Actually went through the whole single player campaign again for RvS, AthenaSword, and IronWrath the weeks before LD came out.

Weapon names look good and proper too. Is that you or the other person's add in?

The_Tyrant
02-21-2006, 06:41 AM
nope, that's his

PP-M1 = PP-90M1
SPN4 CQ3 = Spectre M4
and that short Fn FAL is a SA58 OSW

hmm if I cant make a team then I wouldnt mind joining a team
my plan is to get this game to play realistic & deadly like RVS also add more guns

Shalashaka0721
02-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Nice work dude.
Can You also add in another mp5 with a caliber of 9mm instead of 10? All you have to do is tweak the recoil and damage values lower. I think the accuracy should also go up (or down i have no idea). Would that be hard for you to do?

Shalashaka0721
02-22-2006, 11:48 AM
Also one last thing. I hope it's not too much to ask for, but can you make more of the guns able to take in silencers? For example the m1911, or, as i ike to call it, the AMT Hardballer, is perfectly adaptable with a silencer. Yet in this game, it's not. If you can change this, you have no idea how grateful i'd be.

Kak-
02-22-2006, 12:03 PM
Is there any way to make the AN-94 realistic?

First of all there needs to be a single shot option for it, which isn't hard to add. But is replacing the three round burst mode with a two round burst mode possible? And even more unlikely, have the first two shots coming out at 1,800 rounds per minute then reverting to 600 rounds per minute for the remaining shots with each trigger pull on full auto, is that possible to impliment?

Also change any mention of the word "clip" to "magazine". I know most of the people that play this don't know anything about firearms and don't know the difference between a clip and a magazine, and they call all magazines "clips", but let's try to make this game seem like something more than a game made by people who learned everything they know about guns from playing action first person shooters. At least they have the ejection port on the correct side of the gun.

I'm pretty lazy, but I'll get around to trying to do it eventually, but if you're dedicated to this sort of thing I'd figure I'd let you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also I disagree with the philosophy that this should be made into more of an action game like KF said. I hope other people modding this game do not go down that road. I hope to see realism!

Shalashaka0721
02-22-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Kak-:
Also I disagree with the philosophy that this should be made into more of an action game like KF said. I hope other people modding this game do not go down that road. I hope to see realism!

Amen brother! action is for those halflife 2 losers (JK... i think...).

Waika
02-22-2006, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by KoldStrejke:
Heck If Every One Starts Moding We Will Get The Plugins Sooner then expected.
Expected? When and where did the Ubies say we could "expect" plugins for Lockdown?

In fact in one Developer interview I read read like we could "expect" no more in the way of mod support and tools then what shipped with the game on the DVD...

About the Realism & Weapons Mod: are you applying SCALE metrics to the weapons or just diddling the script by the seat-of-your-pants? Not that there is anything wrong with a SOYP mod, but typically such an approach is no more realistic then what shipped with the game.

I'm working on a weapon metrics mod that actually scales damage and accuracy based on the real velocity, muzzle energy, penetration, accuracy and measured recoil energies of the actual weapons. It's more for my own curiousity then anything else -- but you may want to borrow one of my ideas and replace the Arcade in-game weapon metrics display as well with numbers that give players a better idea of what you've done to a weapon -- So rather than:

Damage <span class="ev_code_WHITE">high</span>
Accuracy <span class="ev_code_WHITE">medium</span>
Maneuverability <span class="ev_code_WHITE">low</span>
Recoil <span class="ev_code_WHITE">medium</span>
Ammo Capacity <span class="ev_code_WHITE">20/---</span>

You'd have something like:

Damage <span class="ev_code_WHITE">9</span>
Accuracy <span class="ev_code_WHITE">4</span>
Maneuverability <span class="ev_code_WHITE">2</span>
Recoil <span class="ev_code_WHITE">6</span>
Ammo Capacity <span class="ev_code_WHITE">20/---</span>

That more closely reflects whatever it is you're doing to the weapon metrics...

I'm also looking for a way to replace "Maneuverability" with something like "Recover Time" or "Settle Time" since this is what this parameter seems to be implying...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

KungFu_CIA
02-22-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Kak-:

Also I disagree with the philosophy that this should be made into more of an action game like KF said. I hope other people modding this game do not go down that road. I hope to see realism!

You're a little to late on that boat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This is clearly an action game which is why it would be better to just do the "action" elements better than the half-assed job UBI did in trying to pretend it is "tactical" or "realistic". There is no way to make this a slower paced, realistic game for one simple reason:

The ability to use stealth from the previous games is all about gone in the SP portion (never was intended for MP). This element is what defined the previous R6 games along with various other things like planning, multiple teams, etc... But since none of those features can be modded "in" we are stuck with an action game no matter how "tactical" you can try and tweak things to be on the surface.

In fact, I have made the damage values for the weapons and combat model as close to the original games as possible and guess what?

It just does not work (feel right) because the game is nothing but a late '90s arcade rail-shooter complete with all of the limitations of games of that era and the way the Tangos and maps are set up (linear) there is no point in a "one hit kill" damage model because the game just is not open enough for this nor is the overall presentation and game designed for it either.

You have run and gun scenarios -- like the courtyard in mission one -- With about 10 to 12 Tangos (on the ground and in windows) where one hit kill becomes more frustrating than fun becuse the scenarios like this are designed for more arcade style damage models and not Rainbow Six/Realism damage models given the sheer number of enemies the game throws at you and your team at any given time.

You can try and mod it for MP... But I gurantee it won't "feel" right no matter how hard you try because this game wants to be Rogue Spear, but is a mix of Soldier of Fortune II and SWAT 4 and everything is out of whack, more or less.

The_Tyrant
02-22-2006, 01:11 PM
Problem with the mod making for this game. :S

Rainbow Six Lockdown\Mods\MyGunMod\equip\sw12.gun
will not override the original
Rainbow Six Lockdown\data\equip\sw12.gun

This is a big flaw for anyone adjusting guns
it simply means I cannot alter any of the original guns!
The editor is only allowing me to add new guns
can Ubi please look into this

KungFu_CIA
02-22-2006, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by The_Tyrant:
Problem with the mod making for this game. :S

Rainbow Six Lockdown\Mods\MyGunMod\equip\sw12.gun
will not override the original
Rainbow Six Lockdown\data\equip\sw12.gun

This is a big flaw for anyone adjusting guns
it simply means I cannot alter any of the original guns!
The editor is only allowing me to add new guns
can Ubi please look into this

I have a feeling this is part of the anti-cheat and anti-piracy (StarForce) built into the game. Don't quote me on this as being 100%, but this is the only explanation I can think of.

Also, you can't add/use original sounds (.wav files) for the existing/new weapons because this uses a stream system of sound banks from one master file(s) like the PS2 version uses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Brettzies
02-22-2006, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by The_Tyrant:
Problem with the mod making for this game. :S

Rainbow Six Lockdown\Mods\MyGunMod\equip\sw12.gun
will not override the original
Rainbow Six Lockdown\data\equip\sw12.gun

This is a big flaw for anyone adjusting guns
it simply means I cannot alter any of the original guns!
The editor is only allowing me to add new guns
can Ubi please look into this

I had this problem too. Check in the modding FAQ, there's a way to get around it. It invloves making two mods and removing the data/equip files. You can also try editing the mod order in the modsset.txt file first. I believe "data" should be first and then "mods/yourMod/" Unfortunately, that didn't work for me so I have to go the two mod route. One for the original files and one for my modded ones.

Brettzies
02-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
You have run and gun scenarios -- like the courtyard in mission one -- With about 10 to 12 Tangos (on the ground and in windows) where one hit kill becomes more frustrating than fun becuse the scenarios like this are designed for more arcade style damage models and not Rainbow Six/Realism damage models given the sheer number of enemies the game throws at you and your team at any given time. Couldn't the number of tangos be reduced? Honestly I think there are twice to two thirds as many as there should be. I haven't messed with NED enough to start changing that aspect, but I think it can be done.

Hit Points:
Last night I finished the SP mode and noticed silenced pistols are almost useless in the late levels against the "M60 toting Mercs." They even take 4-5 M4 rounds. Anyway, as opposed to tweaking each gun's lethality, I went in and tested the hitpoints. The Mercs averaged around 23 hitpoints for the chest and 18 I think for the appendages. Some of the silenced pistols do like 6 min damage and an M4 around 10(non silenced). I assume they have body armor, but is 23 and 18 too much?

As a test, I put everything down to 1 like the head. Worked fine. Was actually kind of fun killing mercs with a silenced pistols and having my squad in "recon" mode(they switch to any suppresed weapons they have). However, this makes every weapon just a lethal as the next(even toe hits kill!). After that, I tweaked all three(13 files) for milita, terrorists, and mercs to be much lower then they are now. The highest I went for chest was 15 or 16 for the mercs. I also lowered most appendages to around 10-12. I realize hitting someone in the arm or leg isn't necessarily going to kill them, but in this game, it doesn't really slow them down either. I'm gonna have a go at it later tonight, see if the play feels any different. I do know it was fun to actually have the pistol "do" something with two rounds as opposed to 4 or 5.

lambchop44
02-22-2006, 02:14 PM
One little request that I would like to add.
Some of the typical carbines that you would be able to attach multiple upgrades to would be "GREATLY" appreciated.

Maybe the solution is to add another version of each gun in the SD version like they did in RVS for the MP-5.

1) I really want an M4A1-SD with a scope. Why is that so hard for game makers to understand?

2) Tac-Light if that's at all possible.

My wife and I really appreciate your hard work on these mods. We're both very disappointed with the lack of realism in this game. We want RVS with a facelift. That's about it.

The_Tyrant
02-22-2006, 02:36 PM
I have made this mod based on what I have already done & what is possible right now

It will change the weapon names & add 2 extra guns
Desert Eagle .50 & a slug loaded shotgun

you will find the download link on my forum
http://p4.forumforfree.com/mod-progress-vt2-wrmod.html

KungFu_CIA
02-22-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by lambchop44:

Maybe the solution is to add another version of each gun in the SD version like they did in RVS for the MP-5.

This is what I am going to do next.

However, you probably will have to turn the first person weapon model OFF to use new weapons like this because there are no first person weapon models which have more than one attachment (each "attachment" is actually ONE first person model with a scope; silencer; regular).

In the meantime, I am currently working on getting much better uniforms and gear for your SP (AI) squad mates that don't look like Tonka Toy "Rescue Rangers" like the default models (w/helmets) do.

I have it to where you get a default model with no helmet/face mask (like in my previous screenshots), the second choice has a face mask/balacva and the third choice is a balacava with a helmet. Basically, these represent, light, medium and heavy armor... At least in appearance as I don't know if there is a way to work in "armor" values as this game seems to just treat the damage model as a global variable and not specific to each character -- Because Ghost Recon had one damage model as Soldiers don't have varying degrees of body armor when in the field which that game simulated.

Brettzies
02-22-2006, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by lambchop44:Maybe the solution is to add another version of each gun in the SD version like they did in RVS for the MP-5.
I'm thinking this is the only way to do it, which isn't bad at all. I'm pretty sure you can tweak ths settings to behave like a suppresed M4 and the attachment would be the scope or red dot. So then, we'd have to adjust the models to reflect that it has a suppressor attached as well. Problem is, I'm not sure if they are going to release any tools for working with and importing/exporting their model files.

KungFu_CIA
02-22-2006, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Brettzies:

I'm thinking this is the only way to do it, which isn't bad at all. I'm pretty sure you can tweak ths settings to behave like a suppresed M4 and the attachment would be the scope or red dot. So then, we'd have to adjust the models to reflect that it has a suppressor attached as well. Problem is, I'm not sure if they are going to release any tools for working with and importing/exporting their model files.

Just turn the First Person Weapon model view off.

Third person weapon models aren't that important (at this stage) in my opinon as most will be concentrating on the game (MP or SP) rather than admiring the weapons your teammate or enemy has http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ForzaMiata
02-22-2006, 03:22 PM
Yo Tyrant,

We seem to be working at cross-purposes; interested in working together?

You can download v. 1.0 (gun names only) at the following, underwhelming webpage:

http://home.comcast.net/~jbe27/index.html (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejbe27/index.html)

Cheers,

Forza

Brettzies
02-22-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
Just turn the First Person Weapon model view off.

Third person weapon models aren't that important (at this stage) in my opinon as most will be concentrating on the game (MP or SP) rather than admiring the weapons your teammate or enemy has http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You are right of course. I'm just a stickler for details. I even went so far as to change the gun icon for the Mp5sd in GR1 to have a butt stock like the one the soldier carries.

I'm just anxious to see what can be done with the models in this game is all. For instance, on a silenced M4, where does the silencer go? On the tip of the barrel or completely over it. I've seen both, though I don't know if either is right/wrong or simply different. Also, anyone know what sniper Gary Gordon was using in the movie version of BalckHawkDown?

The_Tyrant
02-22-2006, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Brettzies:
on a silenced M4, where does the silencer go? On the tip of the barrel or completely over it. Also, anyone know what sniper Gary Gordon was using in the movie version of BalckHawkDown?
M4 silencer is attached to the tip
I dont remember the sniper rifle in BHD
but it was most probably the US standard issue sniper rifle M24

ForzaMiata, I dont know
I have done all I needed to do with gun names now
Iam looking into other interesting suff
like diff clothing types, gun models & sounds

KungFu_CIA
02-22-2006, 05:23 PM
Here is some more progress:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/jconnor/light.jpg

...and...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/jconnor/heavy.jpg

I don't know how this applies to MP, but realistically, I don't see this game lasting more than a few weeks unless UBI fixes the DS problems -- And even then, most R6 fans aren't going to be playing this game online anyway.

My goals are to see what can be done with the engine and make it a game I can mess around with, I.E. not take that seriously, but at least have a better experience (damage model; player models; etc.) than the default.

The game has very little going for it besides the modding which is exactly why I am going to do whatever I can and then move on.

Brettzies
02-22-2006, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by The_Tyrant:
I dont remember the sniper rifle in BHD
but it was most probably the US standard issue sniper rifle M24 Well, no. One had what looks like a modern M14 with a scope and the other an M4 with Scope and big silencer over the barrel. That's why I asked about the M4. Neither were standard Sniper Rifles. Could have just been a Hollywood thing, but they were pretty maticulous on their advisors and research for the film.

Don't give up Kung_Fu! But you are right, this game could die a super quick death in terms of multiplay, sp too.

SlipperyJim
02-23-2006, 12:53 PM
Just a quick post about Lockdown.

If mod makers could make the enemy AI more of a challenge a lot of people would give Lockdown a chance. Raven Shield had ridiculous AI that could target and kill you in a millisecond and people got used to this nonsense. Lockdown does the exact opposite in that you could have a 7 course meal before the enemy AI shoots and probably misses.

Make the enemy AI a lot more accurate and deadly and you will have made a mod worth downloading. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

Kak-
02-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Well, no. One had what looks like a modern M14 with a scope and the other an M4 with Scope and big silencer over the barrel. That's why I asked about the M4. Neither were standard Sniper Rifles. Could have just been a Hollywood thing, but they were pretty maticulous on their advisors and research for the film.

Don't give up Kung_Fu! But you are right, this game could die a super quick death in terms of multiplay, sp too.

The M14 with a scope was either just that, or more likely an M21.


Just a quick post about Lockdown.

If mod makers could make the enemy AI more of a challenge a lot of people would give Lockdown a chance. Raven Shield had ridiculous AI that could target and kill you in a millisecond and people got used to this nonsense. Lockdown does the exact opposite in that you could have a 7 course meal before the enemy AI shoots and probably misses.

Make the enemy AI a lot more accurate and deadly and you will have made a mod worth downloading. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

The enemies on challenge difficulty are pretty deadly, but it gets really rediuclous because unarmored enemies on the first level can take several center mass shots from 7.62x51 NATO rounds. That combined with the insanely stupid ammount of enemies makes it too unrealistic and a chore.

Oh and KungFu, change the name of the "AS9" to "AS Val" if you want it to be named realistically.

toastytoast
02-23-2006, 02:52 PM
Anyone been able to figure out how to change the number of terrorists from default 30 to a higher number on terrorist hunt maps?

The_Tyrant
02-23-2006, 09:27 PM
ok heres the deal AGAIN
so I am unable to mod the current guns

so my plan B was to decrease everyones health to give a feeling the guns are stronger
but nope!
Again I cant override the actor .cgs files with a mod

I'am honestly starting to think that this game only supports addons and NOT modifications!
The only way i see a modification for this game will work is if you instruct the user to backup & replace their Lockdown system files with modded ones. which is easy but quite an inconvenience

Can Ubi please alter this game so mods really mod on the next patch

Brettzies
02-23-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by The_Tyrant:
so my plan B was to decrease everyones health to give a feeling the guns are stronger
but nope!
Again I cant override the actor .cgs files with a mod
The "mod" system is a bit wonky. One work around is to make a mod of your data/actor folder for the original files and remove them all from the actor folder. Then make a duplicate mod with your "modified" actor files. This is the only way I've been able to get mods to overide what's in the data folder. It may have something to do with installs paths. I have no clue, but had the exact same problem with GR1.

In other words, you data/actor file should be empty once you've done this correctly. Stupid, but it works.