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BradKinn
07-19-2011, 03:03 PM
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy...secrets-of-the-game/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/07/18/assassins-creed-revelations-secrets-of-the-game/)

In summary the game is a lot grittier, Ezio is no longer boyish, and the villains aren't from a Saturday morning cartoon anymore

LightRey
07-19-2011, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy...secrets-of-the-game/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/07/18/assassins-creed-revelations-secrets-of-the-game/)

In summary the game is a lot grittier, Ezio is no longer boyish, and the villains aren't from a Saturday morning cartoon anymore
Very interesting. Especially the part about this Sofia woman and the part about Desmond's background.

kriegerdesgottes
07-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.

LightRey
07-19-2011, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.
lol, I just wish I could skip all the months between now and November and just play the game.

breedlove94
07-19-2011, 03:56 PM
Good. Two of my biggest complaints in ACB were the shallow villain, and a lack of character development for Ezio. Cesare Borgia was a whiny, greedy brat who wanted to take what was not his. Although we do not know the main antagonist, the templars in ACR seem to have much better motivation than just power or greed. Hopefully this will bring that moral ambiguity back from AC1.

At 52(which is pretty old in that part of history)Ezio reflect upon his past,which was consumed by murder and short flings with loose women. In Sophia, Ezio finally finds a stable woman, who he can share a deep emotional connection to. It will be interesting to see the internal struggle Ezio faces in revealing his secret life to Sophia.

I also love how in areas controlled by Templars, some of the population may be against you. Hopefully it will make me feel more like an assassin, knowing that the entire city is not cheering me on to defeat the Templars like in ACB.

Overall I like that they are adding more depth to the characters especially Desmond.

kriegerdesgottes
07-19-2011, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.
lol, I just wish I could skip all the months between now and November and just play the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally. I feel like I just got done waiting an eternity for Brotherhood and ACII to come out and here I am again.

swiftkinfe
07-19-2011, 04:13 PM
I really want the Templars to just feel like they think what there doing is right.Remember Brotherhood's power hungry greedy Templars?Screams cartoon villian ever time I see them.

BradKinn
07-19-2011, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.
lol, I just wish I could skip all the months between now and November and just play the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally. I feel like I just got done waiting an eternity for Brotherhood and ACII to come out and here I am again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Think of it like this

August
September
October
November

not long at all anymore (unless you think about how many days are in those months)

CRUDFACE
07-19-2011, 04:30 PM
hey, I read this yesterday, I should've posted it up, but happy you did. I really want to see what it means by Ezio doing something he really regrets. the gray area after he did it, looks back and thinks it could have been done a better way.

Finally, bad guys who are confused! I mean not cornily evil!

reini03
07-19-2011, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.
lol, I just wish I could skip all the months between now and November and just play the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally. I feel like I just got done waiting an eternity for Brotherhood and ACII to come out and here I am again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Think of it like this

August
September
October
November

not long at all anymore (unless you think about how many days are in those months) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it's just 119 more days.
Oh, wait...

BradKinn
07-19-2011, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by MagnifyHope:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BradKinn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
Yeah I read this last night. Pretty decent interview. I wish they would do more video interviews but I guess I'll have to wait till gamescom for that unless Comic Con is decent this year.
lol, I just wish I could skip all the months between now and November and just play the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally. I feel like I just got done waiting an eternity for Brotherhood and ACII to come out and here I am again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Think of it like this

August
September
October
November

not long at all anymore (unless you think about how many days are in those months) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it's just 119 more days.
Oh, wait... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, As of me posting this it's 118 days, 8 hours, and 17 minutes until release

CRUDFACE
07-19-2011, 04:51 PM
This is exactly why I'm trying to focus more on Deus Ex atm, and a little on RAGE on the side.Deus ex comes out I think on August 23rd or 28th. So I'll play that again, and again, lol until ACR comes out.

BradKinn
07-19-2011, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
This is exactly why I'm trying to focus more on Deus Ex atm, and a little on RAGE on the side.Deus ex comes out I think on August 23rd or 28th. So I'll play that again, and again, lol until ACR comes out. My problem is Saints Row The Third comes out the same day as AC:R so I don't know what to play first

kriegerdesgottes
07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
I like the sound of 17 weeks better than anything. 4 months sounds depressing.

CRUDFACE
07-19-2011, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
This is exactly why I'm trying to focus more on Deus Ex atm, and a little on RAGE on the side.Deus ex comes out I think on August 23rd or 28th. So I'll play that again, and again, lol until ACR comes out. My problem is Saints Row The Third comes out the same day as AC:R so I don't know what to play first </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you know which game I'm gonna root for between those two, lol

BradKinn
07-19-2011, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I like the sound of 17 weeks better than anything. 4 months sounds depressing. The worst part is the last few days before it's released and some people (except you) manage to get early copies

thornebrook
07-19-2011, 05:26 PM
Thanks for sharing this! Dare I hope for no more cookie-cutter villains in general and a less predictable story on Ezio's part?

LightRey
07-19-2011, 05:28 PM
sheesh, what's with all the ACB criticism? It was a damn good game with a damn good story, get over yourselves.

thornebrook
07-19-2011, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
The worst part is the last few days before it's released and some people (except you) manage to get early copies

Agreed, and post spoilers online without adding a spoiler warning. No communities/forums for me 'til I get to play the game after release, haha.


Originally posted by LightRey:
sheesh, what's with all the ACB criticism? It was a damn good game with a damn good story, get over yourselves.

I agree with the good game part, not so much on Ezio's share of the story for ACB. And nothing wrong with pointing out a few perceived flaws even while loving the game, yeah?

CRUDFACE
07-19-2011, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
sheesh, what's with all the ACB criticism? It was a damn good game with a damn good story, get over yourselves.

To you it was. Combat, bleh. Story, cool around the end, up to that point, very slow then sped up. Characters, dumbed down to make Ezio look cooler/smarter. Villains, cookie cutter, and Ezio letting people go, again. Horse were crippled, without the gallop, and the main game wasn't that long.

Mic_92
07-19-2011, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I like the sound of 17 weeks better than anything. 4 months sounds depressing. The worst part is the last few days before it's released and some people (except you) manage to get early copies </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And spoil the **** out of the game for everybody.

I will stop visiting this site at least two weeks before the game comes out.

eagleforlife1
07-20-2011, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by t260z:
hey, I read this yesterday, I should've posted it up, but happy you did.

This article has actually already been posted up in the AC Revelations thread.

A Stealthy Lamp
07-20-2011, 05:46 AM
"While Ezio is doing certain favors for the Ottoman royalty, hes careful to not get too involved, because its getting harder and harder to pick sides. Hes on a mission for himself; he just wants to get into this ancient library, and he finds himself wrapped up with all this political intrigue." That reminds me of Red Dead Redemption.

thekyle0
07-20-2011, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by breedlove94:
Good. Two of my biggest complaints in ACB were the shallow villain, and a lack of character development for Ezio. Cesare Borgia was a whiny, greedy brat who wanted to take what was not his. I'm sorry, but why is Brotherhood your target for antagonist complaints? AC2 told you nothing about the antagonist, Rodrigo Borgia, until you were more than halfway to the end of the game other than his name, that he is Spanish, and he is "baaaaad". Cesare was better developed than Rodrigo just within the first few memory blocks of ACB. You're mostly right about him with your character description; he was whiny and greedy and he always wanted his way, at least according to the way Ubisoft portrayed him. But just because his character isn't appealing, doesn't mean he's poorly developed. Whiny, greedy, and bratty are all personality traits, if not desirable ones. If you liked him then he wouldn't be the antagonist, he'd be the antihero, so if you disliked his character then bravo, Ubisoft, for doing it right.

Fairus60
07-20-2011, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Jawa_Slayer:
"While Ezio is doing certain favors for the Ottoman royalty, hes careful to not get too involved, because its getting harder and harder to pick sides. Hes on a mission for himself; he just wants to get into this ancient library, and he finds himself wrapped up with all this political intrigue." That reminds me of Red Dead Redemption.
Well, thats a good thing dont you think? While they dont make it a carbon copy, then it shoul be fine

BradKinn
07-20-2011, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by thekyle0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by breedlove94:
Good. Two of my biggest complaints in ACB were the shallow villain, and a lack of character development for Ezio. Cesare Borgia was a whiny, greedy brat who wanted to take what was not his. I'm sorry, but why is Brotherhood your target for antagonist complaints? AC2 told you nothing about the antagonist, Rodrigo Borgia, until you were more than halfway to the end of the game other than his name, that he is Spanish, and he is "baaaaad". Cesare was better developed than Rodrigo just within the first few memory blocks of ACB. You're mostly right about him with your character description; he was whiny and greedy and he always wanted his way, at least according to the way Ubisoft portrayed him. But just because his character isn't appealing, doesn't mean he's poorly developed. Whiny, greedy, and bratty are all personality traits, if not desirable ones. If you liked him then he wouldn't be the antagonist, he'd be the antihero, so if you disliked his character then bravo, Ubisoft, for doing it right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he didn't act like a Templar at all. Templars wanted to use the POEs to force world peace, Cesare wanted to use the apple to rule the world

Dagio12
07-20-2011, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thekyle0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by breedlove94:
Good. Two of my biggest complaints in ACB were the shallow villain, and a lack of character development for Ezio. Cesare Borgia was a whiny, greedy brat who wanted to take what was not his. I'm sorry, but why is Brotherhood your target for antagonist complaints? AC2 told you nothing about the antagonist, Rodrigo Borgia, until you were more than halfway to the end of the game other than his name, that he is Spanish, and he is "baaaaad". Cesare was better developed than Rodrigo just within the first few memory blocks of ACB. You're mostly right about him with your character description; he was whiny and greedy and he always wanted his way, at least according to the way Ubisoft portrayed him. But just because his character isn't appealing, doesn't mean he's poorly developed. Whiny, greedy, and bratty are all personality traits, if not desirable ones. If you liked him then he wouldn't be the antagonist, he'd be the antihero, so if you disliked his character then bravo, Ubisoft, for doing it right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he didn't act like a Templar at all. Templars wanted to use the POEs to force world peace, Cesare wanted to use the apple to rule the world </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, but he is clearly power hungry. so while he can still use the apple to force world peace, he also wants to be the center of it, the reason why everything was united. it could also be that maybe Casare's skewed vision of world peace was only attainable by world "domination".. something he himself could personally control. A world where he can create peace because he governs, controls, and unifies it. So while his ultimate goal is the same as any Templar.. he may want to go about it in a different way. Just because someone acts a little different and achieves something in a different way.. doesnt necessarily mean that they arent part of that group.... if that makes any sense. anyhoo...

I personally enjoyed that gray moral area the templars in the first game had, but I also kind of enjoyed having some genuinely bad characters, that where after the apple and had there own ideals of what peace and domination where about. They were bad dudes, involved in conspiracies and were pushed by there own greed. It gives the games and the franchise as a whole some different layers, more variety, and more personality. Seeing the different types of people, motives, and emotions that make up the templar order ( and the assassins for that matter) gives the game IMO a sense of realism. Sure, some of the bad guys in AC2/ACB were just plain evil and somewhat comic book villianish... but its a nice change for me. Considering that ACR is probably gonna being things full circle and bring back some of that more morally gray area that we all loved from the first game, as well as Ezio experiencing his own moral boundaries, Im pretty excited to see how it all plays out.

eagleforlife1
07-20-2011, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thekyle0:
I'm sorry, but why is Brotherhood your target for antagonist complaints? AC2 told you nothing about the antagonist, Rodrigo Borgia, until you were more than halfway to the end of the game other than his name, that he is Spanish, and he is "baaaaad". Cesare was better developed than Rodrigo just within the first few memory blocks of ACB. You're mostly right about him with your character description; he was whiny and greedy and he always wanted his way, at least according to the way Ubisoft portrayed him. But just because his character isn't appealing, doesn't mean he's poorly developed. Whiny, greedy, and bratty are all personality traits, if not desirable ones. If you liked him then he wouldn't be the antagonist, he'd be the antihero, so if you disliked his character then bravo, Ubisoft, for doing it right.[QUOTE]

Rodrigo was supposed to be a shadowy, mysterious character. We saw him a lot but we didn't know who he was and barely anything about him. Cesare we knew everything about from what Maccchiavelli, etc. told us but barely saw him at all; the AC2 plotline was way above that of ACB.

twenty_glyphs
07-21-2011, 09:13 AM
I also think Cesare was way underdeveloped in Brotherhood. It's not that I have a big issue with his character and motivations per se, but seeing him doing more than just yelling at everyone around him and giving us actual story moments with him would have really helped the story. When I got to the end of Brotherhood, I felt nothing when I had to track him down at the castle and fight him. Even though Rodrigo had been very mysterious in AC2, his role kept growing and kept you interested enough that by the time you fight him in Venice you are finally emotionally invested and interested in his character. I felt none of that for Cesare, and that was the problem with his character.

To the person who said you're not supposed to like Cesare, that's true. But there's a difference between having a good villain that you don't like and having a villain that only serves to annoy you. I think Cesare merely annoyed a lot of people because he was a spoiled brat who was always yelling and complaining and we never got to see the deeper side that he surely must have had. I don't mind that he was bent on power more than the good of humanity like other Templars seem to be, but they could have explored that just a bit. Just having a little bit of development showing how him being a spoiled brat led to him wanting to conquer Italy and use the Apple in that way would have done a lot for me.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
I also think Cesare was way underdeveloped in Brotherhood. It's not that I have a big issue with his character and motivations per se, but seeing him doing more than just yelling at everyone around him and giving us actual story moments with him would have really helped the story. When I got to the end of Brotherhood, I felt nothing when I had to track him down at the castle and fight him. Even though Rodrigo had been very mysterious in AC2, his role kept growing and kept you interested enough that by the time you fight him in Venice you are finally emotionally invested and interested in his character. I felt none of that for Cesare, and that was the problem with his character.

To the person who said you're not supposed to like Cesare, that's true. But there's a difference between having a good villain that you don't like and having a villain that only serves to annoy you. I think Cesare merely annoyed a lot of people because he was a spoiled brat who was always yelling and complaining and we never got to see the deeper side that he surely must have had. I don't mind that he was bent on power more than the good of humanity like other Templars seem to be, but they could have explored that just a bit. Just having a little bit of development showing how him being a spoiled brat led to him wanting to conquer Italy and use the Apple in that way would have done a lot for me.
I do agree with this. They should've shown more of Cesare's political side. There are a lot of things people (including Shaun) say about how smart he was etc. but you never actually see any of that in the game.

thekyle0
07-23-2011, 03:15 PM
Oh boy, I'm bustin' out ye ol' thinking cap for this one.

BradKinn
But he didn't act like a Templar at all. Templars wanted to use the POEs to force world peace, Cesare wanted to use the apple to rule the world I don't ever recall Cesare saying, "May the father of understanding guide us." Cesare's demeaning attitude toward Rodrigo along with the clear indication that he wasn't acting in accordance with his father's plans (Quotes from Rodrigo in the game: "We had not agreed to conquer Italia." "You are upsetting the delicate balance of power we've worked so hard to maintain." "It was not MY decision to attack Monterigioni!") tells me he just hijacked Rodrigo's resources and turned them toward the Borgia cause rather than the Templar cause. Therefore, he was not a Templar himself and can't be expected to have had the same motivations as them. The assassins don't always have to be fighting the Templars. They can take the chance to undo particularly potent tyrants from time to time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

eagleforlife1
Rodrigo was supposed to be a shadowy, mysterious character. We saw him a lot but we didn't know who he was and barely anything about him. Cesare we knew everything about from what Machiavelli, etc. told us but barely saw him at all; the AC2 plot line was way above that of ACB. I see that he was meant to be shadowy and mysterious, but doesn't that just confirm my point? I was saying that he lacked depth. I might be misunderstanding you but it seems like your counterpoint is, "Yeah, but the writers meant for him to be that way."

In some ways I do agree that AC2 had a superior story. It felt less padded and I got the more of the sense that Ezio was growing as an individual. However, I liked the characters better in ACB; but that might just be because of who they were in actual history, or at least who they were based on like Machiavelli, Cesare Borgia, and Don Michele. I felt that Cesare alone achieved more depth solely through his screen time than any combination of Ezio's targets from AC2. To be fair, reading the database entries for the characters in AC2 helped to flesh them out a bit, but I'm sure the majority of players didn't take the time to read them so their relevance is somewhat lessened.

You're right that we barely saw Cesare at all, but I think the writers made good use of the instances that we did see him. We got to see how he typically treated his father, we learned about his relationship with his sister, we saw his narcissism, his sense of entitlement, and his obsessive need to always be in control. If they managed to reveal all of that in such a short amount of time then I'd have to say they darn near nailed it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


twenty glyphs
To the person who said you're not supposed to like Cesare, that's true. But there's a difference between having a good villain that you don't like and having a villain that only serves to annoy you. I think Cesare merely annoyed a lot of people because he was a spoiled brat who was always yelling and complaining and we never got to see the deeper side that he surely must have had. I don't mind that he was bent on power more than the good of humanity like other Templars seem to be, but they could have explored that just a bit. Just having a little bit of development showing how him being a spoiled brat led to him wanting to conquer Italy and use the Apple in that way would have done a lot for me. If you were initially irritated or put off by his character then I don't blame you for not finding much depth to his character. However, I think my response to eagleforlife1 illustrates a little more depth than what you're giving him credit for. The only reason I took the time to look that hard for depth in his character is because I was so fascinated by the real historical Duke Valentino before I even knew Brotherhood was in development. Otherwise, I'd probably have looked for somebody else to latch on to.

I also wish there could have been some way to show the origins of Cesare's character traits, but the restrictions of the Animus as a story telling device and the fact that Ezio is still the main character probably definitively ruled out any chance of us seeing some defining event in Cesare's childhood. All we're left with is inference, through which I can only guess that his brattyness and his sense of entitlement probably came from his wealthy upbringing, and his ruthlessness from observing his father's actions as a cardinal and emulating that behavioral pattern.