@ Kaleun1961

[Celeon999]

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERJTfdgrjg&feature=player_embedded) (Available in HD !)

Thought this might be something for you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I see you use one of our camo sheet sets for the Leo. Beside Switzerland your the only one who seem to ever cared about them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8097/leopard2a602of35.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4995/leopard2a607of35.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

Thanks very much for that, Celeon. Sad to say, the only place I've ever seen one of our modern tanks is on TV. It's a pretty big country, but I know they are here somewhere.

Elmer Fudd voice:

"Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting Weopards!"

[Scape_G]

Originally posted by Celeon999:
Beside Switzerland your the only one who seem to ever cared about them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lies!!

[Celeon999]

Originally posted by Scape_G:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Celeon999:
Beside Switzerland your the only one who seem to ever cared about them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lies!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, ok maybe the swedes use them aswell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We certainly use parts of them and add the classic version for the rest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Remember the Tiger haystack from Band of Brothers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Celeon is a big fan of camouflage measures. There is so much you can do with so little effort

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2836/17781024.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8756/leo2a6033si7.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9227/wogehtslang21024.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

The trick with camo is not to overdo it. Some guys in my unit used to overdo it and you could pick them out. They'd be the only "tree" in a field, or the darkest clump in a treeline; that sort of thing. The idea is to break up the outline of what you are trying to hide, so that the eye skips over it as it scans.

[Celeon999]

Exactly. The most important things is to break up common shapes.

For a tank , the edges of the turret and chassis and most of all the gun are the important visual lines that need to loose their distinctive visual form that does not fit to natural surroundings. Especially the horizontal lines of the gun need to be broken up.

Horizontal grown trees are very rare. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sharp edges and flat surfaces are also a problem, at least in natural surroundings while in urban areas round edges do not fit to the surroundings and you want edges and lots of straight lines.



This is a experimental camo sheme for urban areas with large rectangles and lots of straight lines.

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7285/leopard2pso258710649006.jpg

Here you can recognize the idea behind the straight lines and the chosen colors

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9307/leo2pso02.jpg


This is a well done camo that eleminates almost all sharp shapes. The weapon still needs some twigs. Drive it among some bushes near a treeline and will blend in perfectly.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7355/12fennekgetarnt.jpg


This one on the other hand is dutch.

.... And therefore , just as on the football field, a totally useless attention seeker. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5448/dutchleo.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

Let's try this again. I had composed a lengthy reply, complete with links, only to lose the whole thing in a Ubiblackhole. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I had copied and pasted the whole thing to my clipboard, then at the last second I copied and pasted one last link and then forgot to backup the whole post. That really burns my tailpipe. Let's try this again:

The modern art of camouflage is about to be radically changed by the new science of nanotechnology. This involves the manipulation of "stuff" on the molecular level. Remember the Arnold Schwarzenegger film, "Predator?" The creature in that film used a camouflage technology that made it essentially invisible. At the time of the film's release, this sort of thing was science fiction. Now, it is no longer as incredible as it seemed back then. Scientists are now working on nanotechnology to develop all manner of new chemicals and devices, including BDUs, or battle dress uniforms, that change colour by themselves to match their current environment. For example, if a soldier walked through an urban environment, the uniform would blend in with the street and buildings. As soon as he stepped into a treeline, the uniform would change colour to match the foliage of the woods. I would not be surprised to see these uniforms introduced within a few years.

Nanotechnology - Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology)

In an earlier post I mentioned the Russian word, maskirovka. Although this is commonly thought of as camouflage, it can involve more than that. Maskirovka is an art that can be applied from the tactical level, right up through operational and strategic execution. A Russian infantry squad or a tank, for example, would dig in to a new position and camouflage itself to match its environment. The Russians were very adept at this and could hide whole battalions as close as a hundred metres from a German line and not be visible. On the operational level, they could hide entire divisions, armies and army groups. Two examples of this are their deceptions prior to "Uranus" at Stalingrad and "Bagration", their summer offensive in 1944 aimed at Army Group Center. In both of these operations, the Red Army was able to move up, deploy and conceal divisions and armies, and the supplies they would need for their imminent offensive operations. At Stalingrad they tore holes on both sides of 6th Army that were hundreds of kilometres in length, encircling and finally crushing the trapped army. In Bagration, they were also able to spring a strategic surprise on the Germans. From positions just south of Leningrad, extending on an angle towards the central city of Vitebsk and extending further south, they launched an offensive that destroyed 28 of the 34 divisions of Army Group Center. Over 300,000 Germans were lost, a toll greater than at Stalingrad and the Russians recaptured Byelorussia, bringing them to the borders of Poland. Bagration began on the third anniversay of Barbarossa, the German attack on Russia, June 22, 1941. It ran until August 29, 1944. During this time the Germans were pre-occupied with the Allied landings and breakout in Normandy. Hitler and OKW must have been tearing their hair out as a result of these two massive hammer blows and the after effects of the July 20th bomb plot.

On the strategic level, maskirovka can cover the development and deployment of entirely new weapons and/or grand deception schemes. In 1962, the Russians were able to sneak missiles into Cuba, capable of launching nuclear warheads onto the eastern shoreline of America. Their maskirovka was not quite perfect and their deployment was detected by U2 spyplane flights. Recent reports indicate that the Americans had not detected all of the missiles and that a few of them had become operational. If these reports are true, and the Americans had launched a pre-emptive strike, those particular missiles could have been used in a counterstrike, and that could have set off a nuclear exchange. Who knows how close we came to nuclear disaster?

Operation Uranus (http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Battles/operationuranus.htm)

Maskirovka and Bagration (http://automaticballpoint.com/2010/05/04/the-mask-of-the-bear-soviet-deception-in-operation-bagration/)

Operation Bagration (http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/camp/eur/w2we-bagr.html)


The enormous success of Bagration was due to three factors: 1) superior Red Army forces, 2) deception, and 3) Allied ground operations in Italy and France and air operations over the Reich which made it impossible for the Wehrmact and Luftwaffe to concentrate its forces.

For an excellent book detailing Bagration, I recommend "Hitler's Greatest Defeat" by Paul Adair. ISBN: 1-898800-07-3

[nelson92506]

"Let's try this again. I had composed a lengthy reply, complete with links, only to lose the whole thing in a Ubiblackhole.

I had copied and pasted the whole thing to my clipboard, then at the last second I copied and pasted one last link and then forgot to backup the whole post. That really burns my tailpipe. Let's try this again:"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I couldn't help but laugh a little when I read the above. It has happened to me more times than I care to remember. The last time it happened to me, I posted my frustration and a warning to others:


Posted Tue January 19 2010 19:30

NEVER, EVER, attempt to post your reply to these forums without first having saved the contents of your reply to the windows clipboard or a word document! You WILL regret it if you don't. It will vanish into the ether. It surely is a sign of my stupidity that I have to be taught this lesson again and again. There really needs to be a warning placed next to the "Post Now" button. I'm not kidding!


I wonder how many great patrol reports have been lost in similar catastrophies. The author slaves for hours describing the action and posting links to screenshots. Then it is all lost due to a simple oversight of not backing it up to the clipboard before hitting the "post now" button. I'll bet that quite a few authors loose heart and don't rebuild their attempted post. And for those that do, I'll bet the second attempt is a pale version of their first endeavor. Ubisoft should place a warning next to the "post now" button. It should remind people to copy the contents of their post to the clipboard before they hit the "post now" button. If things go badly, as they often do, the post can be recovered from the clipboard. Another attempt at uploading can then be made.

[Celeon999]

@ Kaleun

You're certainly not the only one who had that happen to him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Luckily it happens rarely but somehow always when one writes a real long post with lots of links. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

To the topic of nanotechnology : LINK (http://topnews.co.uk/23064-german-scientists-design-3d-invisibility-cloak)

Today a small bump in a gold plate , tomorrow we hide our entire government debt with it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


BTW :

Ive read that Canada is looking for 108 new infantry fighting vehicles to accompany their newly aquired Leopard's.

Seems that the brand new Puma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puma_%28IFV%29) is among the final candidates. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Its seems that the manufacturer (KMW which also builds the Leopard 2) also entered the u.s GCV competition with it as it not just matches but exceeds the requirements in most aspects.

Although its chances seem rather slim, mainly because of its rather big price tag, i wonder if Canada may choose it nonetheless. Because of all that KMW maintenance equipment and knowhow it already possesses. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its full of hi-tech gizmos and has an extremely thick armor and unusually powerful engine for a IFV.

Thats were the money for the Leopard 3 went after 1995. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f56/Eurocopter-2008/SPzPumaStrand07-2009Pic001.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

I'd love to see us acquire these Pumas. The Germans always make nice armour named after felines. Tigers, Panthers, Leopards, Lynx... all good in their day.

I'm still playing "Steel Panthers: World at War" on my laptop. Usually I play as the Germans; it seems that their army is the most fun to use as a gamer. I build my "kampfgruppe" around a core of armoured cars for recon and a few medium platoons, with one platoon of support tanks. Add to that a few platoons of panzergrenadiers, some dedicated AT and flak guns and I'm all set. I usually start in September 1939, when my kampfgruppe is called upon to repel the Polish aggressor, then when I am done with them, I rush to the western front to repel the Franco-Anglo aggressors, then either move to Africa for a spell, then transfer to the eastern front to repel the Bolshevik aggressors.

The Puma armoured car is my favourite recon vehicle, but of course, it is not available in 1939. Until it becomes available, I make do with the Sdkfz 8-rad. But I love the Puma. Armed with a 75mm long gun, it is fast enough for quick, deep probes, and has a big enough set of claws to tangle with a T-34 should it suddenly bump into trouble.

If the Germans name something after a cat, you'd best steer clear of it.

[Celeon999]

In the beginning the name Panther was suggested.

Then someone had the strange idea to call it Igel (hedgehog) but luckily all agreed that this is not the best name for a fighting vehicle. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Some people on the internet forums now call it the PantherIgelPuma because of the confusement the name fining process caused. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

There is a future AA tank based on the Puma chassis in development which may recieve the name Igel though.

The official website of PSM (http://www.psm-spz.com/index.php?id=home) has a small video that shows it during firing and mobility trials.

You can also see how small the unmanned turret is and how much space it leaves for additonal weapons. The Israeli spike ATGM will be installed on the left side of the turret.


At the moment im playing Panzerkrieg which is the official successor to real time strategy game Blitzkrieg. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Most real time strategy games are useless but Blitzkrieg was and is absolutely awesome http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

EDIT :

Ive found this docu on the first amored engagement in history http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mark vs A7V (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWu1GyBLYAg&feature=related)



http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1718/panzerkriegburninghoriz.jpg

[PhantomKira]

Advanced Mobile Camouflage Systems and BMS Screen

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhUZPBiiunI&feature=related)

[Celeon999]

Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Advanced Mobile Camouflage Systems and BMS Screen

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhUZPBiiunI&feature=related)


Thats exactly what i was talking about. This camo only adopts the color layout of the surroundings and eliminates the flat surfaces but does not break up the clear geometric lines.

The tank remains relatively easy to spot.

If you would now combine these sheets with lots of twigs and camo nets it would be much better.

All those twigs may not seem like much at short distance but at bigger ones , through a binocular, the breaking of the visual lines makes all the difference. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

This Marder is especially well done. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


BTW : Ive found the haystack Tiger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65gSE_GOIQA&feature=related) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zis is what happenz vhen you dizturp zee Panzergrenadier's breakfest viz your Market Garden http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The battle was overdramatized for the series, in reality only one british tank was destroyed, three british soldiers killed (propably the tank crew) and two germans.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6571/bild41024px.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

Now, all we have to do is figure out how to eliminate those pesky tank tracks on the ground and the dust trails behing the moving tank.

Actually, sometimes it could be advantageous to blow up a lot of dust behind you. Rommel used trucks equipped with aircraft engines and propellers to blow up dust clouds. The idea was to trick the British into thinking a much larger unit was on the move than actually was the case. The British, feeling themselves to be outnumbered, fell back, which is what Rommel wanted them to do.

[Celeon999]

After unloading from the ships, Rommel also had his tanks driving in a huge circle around the harbor to give british informants the impression that it were three times as much as there were in reality.

It really worked. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif While the same tanks were passing the british spies among the bystanders several times, they did not notice the trick and included them all in their counting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sometimes the simple tricks work out best.

The Afrikakorps and the Desert Rats were two sworn communities anyway.

Fighting a war, so far away from the rest of the war, practically on their own, made them feel very special and the soldiers depended on each other even more.

One of the Afrikakorps songs comes to my mind and i found a translation on wikipedia:

In german this all rhymes of course.

We are the German Africa Korps
The Führer's daring troops
We attack like the Devil
Make things hot for the Tommys
We fear neither heat nor desert sand
We brave the thirst and the blazing sun
Marching to the beat of our drum
Forwards, forwards
|:Forwards with our Rommel!:|

The British fear us like the plague
They're like cats on a hot tin roof
We're taking revenge for German East (Africa) and for South-West (Africa)
Which were cowardly stolen from us
Churchill and Roosevelt are getting mad
We beat the enemy in every country
The drum beats 'get ready'
Forwards, forwards
|:Forwards with our Rommel!:|


With us united in battle and in victory
Italy's cohorts are marching
Until one day the sun of peace will shine on us
And we will return to Germany.
But if the enemy's bullet gets me
Then let me rest in the desert sand
Let the drum beat once more.
Forwards, forwards (disputed line)
|:Forwards with our Rommel!:|

The last verse is rather political correct as Italy's complete failure in Afrika was the whole reason the Afrikakorps had to be there at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


But it think the big times of MBT's are slowly but surely over now.

Just like in the air, the current tendency points towards unmanned ground vehicles.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Gladiator_240G.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/SWORDS.jpg

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4324/origyp3.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9421/geckolj.jpg

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/883/gecko3.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2696/p0064833.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5058/testparcourspopup.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5738/geckogefechtsstand.jpg

This one was clearly inspired by an old real time strategy game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5026/format14.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Machines_Coverart.png

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3275/bild2600pxaa.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5973/geckotrs.jpg


Not that new actually as, for instance, remote controlled mine clearers are in service around the world since decades.

Right now i see something new popping up on the Canadian army's wishlist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Or do you have it already ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3087/bild11024pxmine.jpg

[Scape_G]

Celeron, I have looked around for info on the Puma and it being shortlisted. I haven't seen anything since last year, do you have anything more recent? I would love to see us get the Puma but not holding my breath. On the bright side our Navy got a $35 Billion dollar shot in the arm (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20100603/canadian-navy-coast-guard-ships-100603/).

[Celeon999]

Originally posted by Scape_G:
Celeron, I have looked around for info on the Puma and it being shortlisted. I haven't seen anything since last year, do you have anything more recent? I would love to see us get the Puma but not holding my breath. On the bright side our Navy got a $35 Billion dollar shot in the arm (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20100603/canadian-navy-coast-guard-ships-100603/).

Sadly not. Last real news was the signing of the contract for the production of 405 Pumas after the prototypes went through the terrain and weapons trials.

The entire tank will be built by german companies. KMW, Rheinmetall, Dräger, ESW, H&K, Zeiss, with the exception of swiss company Oerlikon Contraves which is now a subsidiary of Rheinmetall DE-TEC.

The 30mm gun was originally a naval anti-air gun (air burst ammunition, Socko will love that) built by Mauser which now has the name Rheinmetall Waffe & Munition GmbH.

The last prototype shows quite some modifications (count the wheels) and a not previously showcased new side armour.

The mobility tests obviously highlighted the need for some changes.

It was also confirmed that a license copy of the israeli Spike-ER ATGM called Eurospike will be produced in Germany and mounted on the Puma. It will also be the new standard AT missile on squad level.

Things will propably stay quiet until the first Puma's are delivered later this year.

..

Does Canada's ambitious shipbuilding plan also involve modernisation of its submarine fleet ?


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[Scape_G]

The Victoria class is to be kept. There are rumors about aquiring some 214's to augment in future but that is all wind and smoke. The Halifax class is the mainstay of the fleet. Subs are not as sexy it seems.

[Kaleun1961]

I don't know about that. Do dumb girls still fall for the line, "Let's go down to the lake to see the submarine races?"

[PhantomKira]

Unmanned vehicles scare me. It's not the fact that fewer people will die on the battlefield, but rather that, with fewer casualties "likely", war may well be easier to get okayed.

That in and of itself is dismaying, but there's a further problem. If the people aren't on the battlefield fighting, then where are they? With smaller military forces, most will be civilians. We all know that it's the civilians that get the worst outcome in any conflict.

More, easier to allow wars may not mean more battlefield deaths, but many more civilians, wherever the fighting does occur, will suffer greatly from it.

[Celeon999]

And if you dont have a battle tank ...


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

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And another one. You can see the target in the middle , a tank wreck about a kilometer away. 155mm... Bang ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

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http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3345/pzh200007.jpg

[Kaleun1961]

That looks very sweet, but real generals know that if they are relying on artillery firing directly on tanks, there's been a breakthrough in their line and they are now in serious s#it! Still, it's every artilleryman's dream to take out a tank with direct fire. They don't very often get to see the effects of their work firsthand.

[Celeon999]

I believe that is a leftover feature from the cold war. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Development started in 1973 so it was propably demanded that the Pzh shall be able to fire directly at soviet tanks whenever necessary and maybe also to be used as an assault gun against bunkers and infantry.

[Mittelwaechter]

I was an artillery observer while serving in the German Army. We did some direct fire training with our M109 in Boom-Boom-City - Grafenwoehr.
Obviously our generals thought it could be useful.

[Celeon999]

Celeon spent three months in boom boom city as part of a liason team back in 2001 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The sweetest thing is to have artillery fired over your head. Its a very strange sound and very strange feeling of hope that they all know what they are doing back there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



The microphone cannot cover how loud that bang actually is. You can feel the soundwaves causing a vibration in your chest even if you are as far away as they are in the vid

I cannot imagine what it must have been like to have tens of thousands of them raining down on you for days, 24 hours in a row without pause during the ww1 trench warfare.



Hollanders http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif I wonder if they wear orange underwear underneath their uniforms http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Airburst - ground impact - airburst

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[Mittelwaechter]

Sometimes they don't know what they're doing.
I remember a story of a (training?-) grenade falling into a kindergarden in the early eighties.

A US Bradley fired some rounds into a school (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,132809,00.html) close to Grafenwoehr in 2001.

Indeed - the shockwave is quite impressive. As an observer you are rather close to the impact.

[Celeon999]

Originally posted by Mittelwaechter:
Sometimes they don't know what they're doing.
I remember a story of a (training?-) grenade falling into a kindergarden in the early eighties.

A US Bradley fired some rounds into a school (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,132809,00.html) close to Grafenwoehr in 2001.

Indeed - the shockwave is quite impressive. As an observer you are rather close to the impact.

Yeah i heard of that school thing. Lets be honest, the roof of that school badly needed a makeover. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Celeon suspects insurance fraud http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif


Celeon still thinks that our best contribution to Canada is by far Fräulein Helfer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Tricia_Helfer.jpg/399px-Tricia_Helfer.jpg


Which also brings us back to robotic warfare http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

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[Celeon999]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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[PhantomKira]

I wonder what kind of seat spring dampener they have in that tank. Is it anything like the one for the driver/pump operator of our tanker, where it bounces his head off the ceiling every time we go over a certain bridge at any speed?

Fräulein Helfer is none too bad looking for, eh, 50ish?

[Celeon999]

Originally posted by PhantomKira:
I wonder what kind of seat spring dampener they have in that tank. Is it anything like the one for the driver/pump operator of our tanker, where it bounces his head off the ceiling every time we go over a certain bridge at any speed?

Fräulein Helfer is none too bad looking for, eh, 50ish?


Celeon's back could tell you one or the other story about tanks and suspensions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The Leopard 1 has a torsion bars suspension. The first three (from the frontside) and the last two wheels have a hydraulic shock absorber each.

Does this make you comfortable in case of such a stunt ?

NO ! There are plenty of opportunities for injuries during that.

Not to mention that the mechanics may want to exchange a word or two with you afterwards. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Some AT missile firing in "boom boom city"

I know that one, its Firing Range 201 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Had the chance to observe AT-4 live fire training there

The 173rd is not stationed in Grafenwöhr, they must have been on their way through to Iraq or Afghanistan.

The tanks they are firing on are old M60 Pattons into which they put electric heatings they buy in the OBI homecenter of the nearby town of Pressath. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



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[Celeon999]

Not sure how much pocket money the Canadian military was granted for the coming years but Rheinmetall recently rolled out some impressive surprises regarding the Leo2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


The A7 upgrade , (the one i thought of that it would never come)

From the outside i can spot lots of cameras and a remote controlled weapon station

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5564/a71n.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2856/a73s.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4594/a76q.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8072/a78f.jpg

That thing above the gun is also new. Another thermal imaging device ? Thats where old tanks had their active infra-red searchlights. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7763/a79.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2519/a72g.jpg


But this is far more radical. Its barely recognizable but that was once a old Leopard 2A4

Most of that equipment on it are just mock ups for display purposes.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2264/evo1j.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/224/evo4l.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/468/evo7y.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8347/evo2y.jpg

The commander's brake is interesting. Is the commander now able to override the driver in emergency situations ?

In the Leopard 2 , the commander is already able to override the gunner and take control over the turret and gun. In emergency situations, for instance the commander suddenly spotting an enemy battle tank, he does not need to tell the gunner to stop with whatever he's doing and give him new instructions, he just can take control away from the gunner and fire at the MBT on his own with no further delay.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/377/evo11f.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2773/evo17.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7829/evo14.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/3321/evo18.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1259/evo21.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1773/evo22.jpg

Why does this remind me of a certain nemesis of Doctor Who ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4048/evo23.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9403/evo28.jpg

[Celeon999]

Ive found this nice photo of a Canadian Leo 2 in Afghanistan.


Interesting about this photo is the angle which enabled me to mark a interesting feature of the Leopard 2 and M1 Abrams.

Ive marked the blow-off panels (red) which make up the roof of the ready ammunition storage compartments on the rear end of the turret.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4566/leopard2a6mcanada02.jpg

The welding lines of those two panels are intentionally left rather weak.

In case of an internal explosion, may it be a fire or the compartment being hit, they are supposed to be the weakest part and pose the least resistance to the resulting blast thus letting it vent upwards out of the turret and away from the crew.

A very thick automatic sliding door divides the ready ammo storage from the interior of both tanks. It only opens for the loader to pick out a shell and is much stronger than the roof panels. A very clever design that both tanks share as sign of their once unified design approach. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

This M1 Abrams was destroyed by friendly fire after being rendered immobile by an iraqi attack. You can see that the panels were blown away as intended when its ready ammo storage exploded.

I would really like to know wether the inside really withstood the explosion as the engineers hoped for.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/695/20050120destroyedm1abra.jpg


Here is a close-up of what the panels on the M1 look like. It seems that hatches are connected to the panels.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6071/m1a2blowoutpanels.jpg



The tank at 0:20 into this docu showcases what an internal ammo explosion looks like without a way to vent pointed out to it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Of course this can also happen with the Abrams or the Leo when the standard ammo storage in the chassis is hit.

This docu is from the 1980's as you will surely notice by the music and haircuts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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[Celeon999]

He's coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


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http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7053/pumaemv2.jpg

[Celeon999]

Finally some scenes of the Puma prototypes in action http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tests were run in Munster,Germany and Bergen,Norway


That 30mm is infantry cannonfodder's worst nightmare http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

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