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View Full Version : UBI read this. A poll conducted by console gamers



sl0ppy_sec0nds
06-16-2007, 11:14 PM
I post on this site on a daily basis because there is a forum for gamers of all platforms and many PC gamers are active there. It is an Xbox 360 website by the way. I happened to go to the general forums and to my surprise there is a poll regarding the drastic change of the Tom Clancy Franchise. Not many happy campers. This goes to show that not even console gamers are enjoying this arcade concept that Ubi has made our favorite titles into.

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=530159

Snipe4Me
06-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Jeezzz, that site's got more cookies than my grandma's Jar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Unfortunately for us, the PC/Console TRUE gamer is a very small niche when compare to all the kiddie wannabees rambos gamers out there that want to have all their game in easy mode so they can boost to their friends how many kills they got that night. If they game is tought to beat, they won't buy the next title... UBI knows this and banks on it.

Hopefully, I am wrong and the niche is getting bigger and bigger to the point where UBI and others can comeback with better games.

WhiteKnight77
06-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Snipe4Me:
Jeezzz, that site's got more cookies than my grandma's Jar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Unfortunately for us, the PC/Console TRUE gamer is a very small niche when compare to all the kiddie wannabees rambos gamers out there that want to have all their game in easy mode so they can boost to their friends how many kills they got that night. If they game is tought to beat, they won't buy the next title... UBI knows this and banks on it.

Hopefully, I am wrong and the niche is getting bigger and bigger to the point where UBI and others can comeback with better games.

I would not count on Ubi changing directions back to where the Tom Clancy franchises had come from. Ubi really wants flavor of the month gamers for their FPS games and returning to the hardcore gameplay that R6 and GR had will lose all those newfound fans/customers.

Brettzies
06-20-2007, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
I would not count on Ubi changing directions back to where the Tom Clancy franchises had come from. Ubi really wants flavor of the month gamers for their FPS games and returning to the hardcore gameplay that R6 and GR had will lose all those newfound fans/customers.

"That boy(Tom Clancy) was our last hope."

"No...there is another."



Alright, so I nerded out for a second.

WhiteKnight77
06-20-2007, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Brettzies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
I would not count on Ubi changing directions back to where the Tom Clancy franchises had come from. Ubi really wants flavor of the month gamers for their FPS games and returning to the hardcore gameplay that R6 and GR had will lose all those newfound fans/customers.

"That boy(Tom Clancy) was our last hope."

"No...there is another."



Alright, so I nerded out for a second. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. I know to whom you refer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DX-GAME
06-20-2007, 07:00 PM
this is a bad example.

Its bout neck and neck on the ol vs new thing.

I dont care one way ore the other to tell the truth, as long as I can run a mission solo, or my backups can think for them selves when I aint watching, its all good.

One thing they mentioned..
I think Id be happy with smaller maps and a hell of alot more missions..

BTW Knight..

"Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community"
This never works.

Chiles4
06-21-2007, 09:34 AM
"That boy(Tom Clancy) was our last hope."

"No...there is another." Hey, that was good!
QUOTE]I know to whom you refer.[/QUOTE]Leia? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yeah, I think I know too.

Snipe4Me
06-21-2007, 10:57 AM
Is his first name "Cry" and the last name "Tek" by any chance? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WhiteKnight77
06-21-2007, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Snipe4Me:
Is his first name "Cry" and the last name "Tek" by any chance? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No.

WhiteKnight77
06-21-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by DX-GAME:
BTW Knight..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community"
This never works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you be so sure?

In a way Ubi has been doing this for the last several years and it started with Raven Shield (everyone, well almost everyone, wanted R6 to be built with the Unreal engine and got their wish). Ubi has since made the R6 series more like other games to attract those gamers and win them over. Seems to me that it works pretty well.

Brettzies
06-21-2007, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by DX-GAME:
BTW Knight..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community"
This never works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, it works all the time. Only no one put it so eloquently before. When you strip away the wording, it's basically, "Make your game for a target audience." Last I checked that's what ubi always does, only they go for the largest possible audience and in some of the Clancy cases have taken a game made for a smaller audience and changed it for a broader audience to the dismay of the smaller one.

The above quote is more about passion though. It's about making the game you want to make with a like-minded community as the focus. It may not be as profitable as a mass market game, but that doesn't mean it won't be successful or even innovative. Most of the best works whether it be films, music, books, or games, come from people who do what they want and try to have as little executive involvement as possible.

Not to say that a big company like ubi is always harmful, but do you think we'd have RainbowSix:Vegas, the ubi owned RedStorm today without RainbowSix the original RedStorm, Tom Clancy owned company. Most people probably don't even know why it's called Red Storm Entertainment or that Clancy stopped major involvement long ago, though I'm sure he still gets kick backs.

DX-GAME
06-22-2007, 09:32 AM
Ive seen it never work.

The trick is to design a quality game.
From there, communities are built or expanded. Sequels will see people of the community came and go, all with new ideas and attitudes regarding past and present releases. The target audiance is ever changing and so is the opinion on the way a game should play.

As people keep saying, the Xbox versions of the game did guite well. The PC versions were terrible copies. Thats shows a huge change in ideas for what the game should be. So I dont believe we'd even be having this conversation if Vegas for PC was a solid, optimized title.

The real statement that holds true is "Do not build Xbox games for the PC community, Build your PC games around the PC." No grey area there.

I like vegas, my friends like it as well. Plenty of people here like it, except it was designed poorly. However, its a huge change from Ravenshield. Had Ubi listened to the quote, Vegas would never have been. While that seems like a good idea to some of you, I myself wouldnt have bought it if it was like Ravenshield and the previous titles.

Am I not part of the community as well?
Had this been a solid release, there would be alot more in the community guys..

WhiteKnight77
06-22-2007, 10:06 AM
Ubi has done it. Go play Silent Hunter III and even Silent Hunter IV. Yes, they are sequels, but made with community input. The community was already there. They just wanted more and got it when Ubi allowed the Devs to create the game that the community really wanted. The iL2 series is the same. Ubi had nothing in the way of a flight sim and Oleg Maddox, wanting to give the community a terrific flight sim, built one that the small flight sim community wanted.

You are right, Ubi should have given PC gamers a PCcentric R6 game but still after a taste, the console community wanted more and Ubi obliged and wrongly thought that the PC community wanted the same thing. Evidence of this is rampant on the forum as many old timers have not bought LD or Vegas, myself included. The gameplay that R6 was famous for no longer exists and as such, the game is no longer what the Tac-Sim community wants. Vegas is a classic cookie cutter game that already abounds by the thousands.

Mysticaly
06-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by DX-GAME:
Ive seen it never work.

The trick is to design a quality game.
From there, communities are built or expanded. Sequels will see people of the community came and go, all with new ideas and attitudes regarding past and present releases. The target audiance is ever changing and so is the opinion on the way a game should play.

As people keep saying, the Xbox versions of the game did guite well. The PC versions were terrible copies. Thats shows a huge change in ideas for what the game should be. So I dont believe we'd even be having this conversation if Vegas for PC was a solid, optimized title.

The real statement that holds true is "Do not build Xbox games for the PC community, Build your PC games around the PC." No grey area there.

I like vegas, my friends like it as well. Plenty of people here like it, except it was designed poorly. However, its a huge change from Ravenshield. Had Ubi listened to the quote, Vegas would never have been. While that seems like a good idea to some of you, I myself wouldnt have bought it if it was like Ravenshield and the previous titles.

Am I not part of the community as well?
Had this been a solid release, there would be alot more in the community guys..

To my surprise I actually agree with DX-Game for once http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Communites can be built around mods, and the mods from ideas from the community (as they usually are). Not entire new games.
No need to say anything more really, he have allready said it

Brettzies
06-22-2007, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by DX-GAME:
The real statement that holds true is "Do not build Xbox games for the PC community, Build your PC games around the PC." No grey area there....
That's a great statement to go on for certain genres like this one, but there are also plenty of games that do cross over both ways. Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Knights of the Old Republic, the Madden games. As good as the quote is, it's not bullet proof either.


Originally posted by DX-GAME:
I like vegas, my friends like it as well. Plenty of people here like it, except it was designed poorly. However, <span class="ev_code_RED">its a huge change from Ravenshield.</span> Had Ubi listened to the quote, Vegas would never have been. <span class="ev_code_RED">While that seems like a good idea to some of you, I myself wouldnt have bought it if it was like Ravenshield and the previous titles.</span>

<span class="ev_code_RED">Am I not part of the community as well?</span>
Had this been a solid release, there would be alot more in the community guys.. According to your statements, no, you sound more like the console community...if you want to break it into pc and console. Sounds like all you want is the same game we have now but on the pc with no bugs and more support? Is that correct? I don't know what you mean by solid release...like sales-wise or bug-wise?

I wouldn't go so far as to say you aren't part of the community though, just that your thinking is much more in line with what the majority of console people seemed to be satisfied with in this game.

Let's say the game was never on x360, but instead only on PC. Say it's exactly the same design with more optimizations, fewer bugs, and continued support. Would there be more people playing it then there are now? Would the pc "community" be bigger? My gut tells me it would be exactly the same, or at least not enough to make a difference.

I don't like to talk in terms of console vs pc so much these days but there are clearly certain types of players for both in specific genres especially. There are also people on the consoles that want more of what pc people seemed to want. It's a weird mixed up time for PC only gamers especially.

Is there much of a community for pc-Vegas? I only came back to Rainbow a few weeks ago. Seems pretty sparse around here at least. You can say communities are built or expanded, but they also seem to be dispersed. And for what purpose? Why not build on what you had before?

reggo
06-22-2007, 12:40 PM
Good post Brettzies. I totally agree with you.

By the way, what strikes me about this game is its total lack of deepness. I can't talk much about MP because I'm more of an SP player. And compared to games like Raven Shield or even Swat 4, the SP modes of Vegas are so lame, superficial and featureless: A short, linear, scripted and not-replayable campaign, and a single ''Lone Wolf'' mode grossly disguised as a terro hunt mode. And like that was not enough, the ''Lone Wolf'' mode and coop modes are totally spoiled by an archaic ''trip-wire triggered'' AI mechanism.

I don't know how console players are satisfied with this game, but for PC players, this is a so huge step back from Raven Shield. Even the old ''action game'' Far Cry is more tactical and much more appealing than this bland and average shooter that Vegas is. I can imagine how it can be fun in MP adversarial games though, but the game is so superficial that I hardly see how it can be fun for an extended period of time (compared to RvS, Swat 4, or America's Army).

The most fundamental an unfixable bug of Vegas is by design.

KI.Canyon
06-22-2007, 01:01 PM
UBI making the game that they did wasn't their downfall with the PC version of RS:V. The game, playwise, is fun as hell.

The problem lies in them taking a fun as hell game and making it completely unstable on the platform ACROSS THE BOARD, server software that is stripped of all feature sets that would make it playable for clan competition, and their sluggish response to the criticism of the franchise's fans who WANT to see this game succeed.

Holy hell, this game would be an absolute RIOT to ladder match in, were it possible to do so.

DX-GAME
06-22-2007, 01:23 PM
Look at the UT series.

Unreal tournament, thousands still play, most with mods, but its been about 8yrs.

UT2003 most thought this a beta. to me, its was the better game and Id still be playing it if not for..

Ut2004. The basic UT crowed hated it for not being UT with better graphics. Alot of them never migrated and are still playing the original. However, there are still alot of people playing 2k4. Its own community grew out of it being something different in the same storyline.

UT3?
We will have to see. But I dont think the original UT players are going to like this one either. Its not the same thing.

Point is, the Unreal community is doing well between two main games and 4 offshoots in Unreal, Gears, U2, Champ.. Consol or not.

I dont know alot of SP games that arent trigger, forced storyline types. But I do know alot of them that are and dont have a multiplayer function at all. Look at UT and Battlefield, neither with a singleplayer storyline. Now look at D3 and its **** online options.

To me, Ive read the books, I know what R6 is, so the depth is already there for me.
the difference between Ravenshild and Vegas is that RS is a hop type game where you hit different areas around the globe. Vegas is a continued storyline where you follow one line. RS, you have time to plan with blueprints, Vegas you are dropped in the **** and have to keep swimming with little or no intel.

Different games along the same genere.

One thing is certain though, it doesnt matter how well a game ports over, if it takes advantage of a PCs abilities, then its going to be a better game.

nebula25x
06-23-2007, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Brettzies:



Let's say the game was never on x360, but instead only on PC. Say it's exactly the same design with more optimizations, fewer bugs, and continued support. Would there be more people playing it then there are now? Would the pc "community" be bigger? My gut tells me it would be exactly the same, or at least not enough to make a difference.


Absolutely, there would be more people playing it. And laddering in it. You cant ladder in a game that crashes all the time and has limited server control.
I firmly believe if it was as you say, there would be alot of people playing. There would still of course be people who would not play based on their preconcieved notions of what R6 "should" be.

I admit even if it was a 100% working title i would not have the same warm fuzzy feeling i had while playing Rogue Spear or Raven Shield. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif