The New Multiplayer Maps [Archive]

navyredman

03-20-2007, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by sixdays:
Deadlines are a pain. I can't imagine what it entails to create new maps, gamemodes, et. I would rather see the end of March deadline postponed for a better quality product. I watched some interviews with the developers of this game. Amazing thought and skill that went into making this game. Gave me a new level of respect for the technical and planning aspect. Well done.

My 2 cents on DLC: Hopefully your marketing dept. is on the ball and telling you to charge 1200 pts. for such a popular game and placing game appropriate ads that reap large profits. Gamers may spit at me for this, but being in sales I would be milking this cash cow for every drop--not to mention the company earned it for such a quality game.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. One of the devs found a new screen name! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

sixdays

03-20-2007, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by navyredman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sixdays:
Deadlines are a pain. I can't imagine what it entails to create new maps, gamemodes, et. I would rather see the end of March deadline postponed for a better quality product. I watched some interviews with the developers of this game. Amazing thought and skill that went into making this game. Gave me a new level of respect for the technical and planning aspect. Well done.

My 2 cents on DLC: Hopefully your marketing dept. is on the ball and telling you to charge 1200 pts. for such a popular game and placing game appropriate ads that reap large profits. Gamers may spit at me for this, but being in sales I would be milking this cash cow for every drop--not to mention the company earned it for such a quality game.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. One of the devs found a new screen name! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Just a gamer with business sense.

FrayedKnotJeff

03-21-2007, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by sixdays:
Deadlines are a pain. I can't imagine what it entails to create new maps, gamemodes, et. I would rather see the end of March deadline postponed for a better quality product. I watched some interviews with the developers of this game. Amazing thought and skill that went into making this game. Gave me a new level of respect for the technical and planning aspect. Well done.

My 2 cents on DLC: Hopefully your marketing dept. is on the ball and telling you to charge 1200 pts. for such a popular game and placing game appropriate ads that reap large profits. Gamers may spit at me for this, but being in sales I would be milking this cash cow for every drop--not to mention the company earned it for such a quality game.

If they charge 1200 points for this DLC I can guarantee that not many people will get it, including myself.

You must not be a very good salesman if that's the way you do your business.

Just my .02.

navyredman

03-21-2007, 07:21 AM

Nope. Just a gamer with business sense.

LOL!!! If you say so buddy! Way to go on spottin the top quality product like R6V. I hope they do charge 1200 ms points. That will be the last straw for the people that still think it's an ok game.

bishopazrael

03-21-2007, 07:41 AM

To the stooge who claims to have business sense... please pay attention.

GoW is not a game I own. Know why? No demo. I refuse to buy a game without a free demo. Why? Because so many games have turned to ash in my mouth 5 minutes after being unwrapped. I used to believe the hype, then after battlefield 2 MC, i quit. That game was just so much bs it wasnt funny. So... no demo, no buy.

2nd example. I played bf2 on the pc for almost a year straight. I wont go to 2142 though. Why? Advertising in game. Yeah. It DOES bug me. I paid $50 for a game, i dont want to see stupid ads for a movie or Dodge or whoever. I want to play.

More over, if you're the company, you're making money off of offending my eyes with that ad and not sharing any of that profit with me. You want to share? Give me free maps.

If ubi charges even ONE point for the maps I won't buy it. Why? Because they're already making money off of showing me ads for Smoking Aces (good movie by the way) if you're making money off those ads, that's paying for me to get the DLC. I PAID my $60. You want to rape my eyes and get paid for it? Give me something for free like new maps.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 08:00 AM

I hope they chare 2000 points for it now. It will keep gamers like you out of R6V.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by navyredman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nope. Just a gamer with business sense.

LOL!!! If you say so buddy! Way to go on spottin the top quality product like R6V. I hope they do charge 1200 ms points. That will be the last straw for the people that still think it's an ok game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. People will pay for what they like. I like playing with people who really like the game. Hopefully the cost will help them move on to different games, or back to Halo where they can play with 12 year-olds. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

sixdays

03-21-2007, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by FrayedKnotJeff:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sixdays:
Deadlines are a pain. I can't imagine what it entails to create new maps, gamemodes, et. I would rather see the end of March deadline postponed for a better quality product. I watched some interviews with the developers of this game. Amazing thought and skill that went into making this game. Gave me a new level of respect for the technical and planning aspect. Well done.

My 2 cents on DLC: Hopefully your marketing dept. is on the ball and telling you to charge 1200 pts. for such a popular game and placing game appropriate ads that reap large profits. Gamers may spit at me for this, but being in sales I would be milking this cash cow for every drop--not to mention the company earned it for such a quality game.

If they charge 1200 points for this DLC I can guarantee that not many people will get it, including myself.

You must not be a very good salesman if that's the way you do your business.

Just my .02. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being shrewd in business? Yes I am. A sad truth you should learn is the collateral damage of losing some player for charging for the DLC would be diminmus. Besides, they already sold you the game. They already made their money off you, whether you buy the DLC or not. A wide business move is to make money where you can. You may not like it, but it is business.

Now to think the DLC should be free is absurd in my mind. How many man hours and what level of technical skill went into the new DLC? What was their cost basis for producing the red pack? We don't know, but I promise you no-one at UBI or affiliates are working for free.

I do think UBI should communicate more...ambiguity tolerance in their largest audience is very low...lol...but I am just happy they are adding to this already fantastic game.

N8TV_XxCREExX

03-21-2007, 08:08 AM

I would like a poll for when maps come out to help the developers come out with maps that have been very popular in the gaming world. Like one map they have never brought back has been Carnival yet they bring back a crappy map like Presidio. And why does it take so long to get maps to come out??Thats twice I have observed now that other games came out, within a month and 1/2 were offering new maps and this game has been out since last fall and we are still waiting on new maps??If you want to keep the interest of gamers, regular downloads of new maps and not just REDUX maps but BRAND NEW MAPS keep that interest...I love this game but playing on the same maps got old pretty fast...Some process has to speed up...Same with Recon 2...bring us new maps QUICKER!!

FrayedKnotJeff

03-21-2007, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by sixdays:
I hope they chare 2000 points for it now. It will keep gamers like you out of R6V.

Then the map pack will end up like the second map pack did in RS3BA. You will be playing a map that everyone has, then change it to one of the maps from the new map pack and your whole room will disappear due to most not having them.

I swear it happened in RS3BA, and that map pack was only $5.00.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by N8TV_XxCREExX:
I would like a poll for when maps come out to help the developers come out with maps that have been very popular in the gaming world. Like one map they have never brought back has been Carnival yet they bring back a crappy map like Presidio. And why does it take so long to get maps to come out??Thats twice I have observed now that other games came out, within a month and 1/2 were offering new maps and this game has been out since last fall and we are still waiting on new maps??If you want to keep the interest of gamers, regular downloads of new maps and not just REDUX maps but BRAND NEW MAPS keep that interest...I love this game but playing on the same maps got old pretty fast...Some process has to speed up...Same with Recon 2...bring us new maps QUICKER!!

I think the developers know more than the gamers. If I knew more than they did about this industry, there will be a game devoloped by "sixdays" getting all the brew-ha-ha and not R6V.

captainOrbital

03-21-2007, 08:50 AM

"Business sense," that's pretty funny. Higher cost does not automatically equal more profit, something that people with actual business sense know intrinsically. The idea of diminishing returns states that (in essence), the more something costs, the fewer people will buy it. They can charge 1200 points for it, they can charge 2000 or 5000, and certainly they'll make more money per map pack, but they'll sell significantly fewer map packs, leading to a lower overall profit. Ubisoft recognizes the fact that in order to maximize overall profit, they need to find a middle ground, pricing the map pack low enough that the maximum amount of people buy it, but high enough that they still make a boatload of cash. Most gamers, at least, seem to think the price break is at about 800 points, so something tells me that there'll be a big drop in the amount of gamers buying the product if they price it at 1200. Not to mention the further lowered goodwill toward Ubi and their games, which carries a cost of its own in the long run.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by captainOrbital:
"Business sense," that's pretty funny. Higher cost does not automatically equal more profit, something that people with actual business sense know intrinsically. The idea of diminishing returns states that (in essence), the more something costs, the fewer people will buy it. They can charge 1200 points for it, they can charge 2000 or 5000, and certainly they'll make more money per map pack, but they'll sell significantly fewer map packs, leading to a lower overall profit. Ubisoft recognizes the fact that in order to maximize overall profit, they need to find a middle ground, pricing the map pack low enough that the maximum amount of people buy it, but high enough that they still make a boatload of cash. Most gamers, at least, seem to think the price break is at about 800 points, so something tells me that there'll be a big drop in the amount of gamers buying the product if they price it at 1200. Not to mention the further lowered goodwill toward Ubi and their games, which carries a cost of its own in the long run.

Your right, but that wasn't my point. The marketers and officers of UBI know their industry. I don't. THey know what to charge. Their may be a price break, but it will be based on demand. If there is a very high demand for this DLC, the law of supply and demand tells us the price will go up. Either way i don't care. I will pay, 800, 1200, or 2000...and I will buy 2 of them. My wife and I both play. So will all the members of my clan..and the gaming community that I play with (thousands of users) will buy it too.

I don't see how the concept of diminishing returns applies here since it deals with a production system with fixed and variable inputs. "In economics, diminishing returns is also called diminishing marginal returns or the law of diminishing returns. According to this relationship, in a production system with fixed and variable inputs (say factory size and labor), beyond some point, each additional unit of variable input yields less and less additional output." Wiki (taken with a grain of salt)

I'm no economist, but I see this more as a function of supply and demand. And this my percetpion of it. I hear everyone who loves this game screaming for DLC. High demand, so I am expecting 800-1200pts for it. Certainly the market they will sell to should be considered. They know their demographic I don't.

UBI should certainly consider the emotional response. The market will determine the price of this. I am betting UBI will charge 800 for it.

Thanks for the post, although you attempted to take a stab at me, your post was more intelligent than most here.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by stevenrasnick:
sixdays, you have a point about the business side of gaming. I believe the entire reason we are on here complaining about the mediocrity of it all is because of people like you. People that look at people and see money. People that have no sense of decency. We get a mediocre product with lackluster support filled with ads and scheduled to receive premium DLC, all in an attempt to make as much money with as little expenditure as possible. EDITED BECAUSE OF VULGARITY like you and Ubisoft, mission accomplished. For everyone else...

PS - I didn't want to believe that, but you just proved it to me. Thanks.

I thought you deserved a response, even though you insulted me. My guess is you hate America and capitalism. I don't. I think its great. If UBI charges too much, gets greedy, whatever, the marketplace will punish them for it--they won't buy their product. If UBI was creatign crappy games and charging a premium for them, no one would buy them.

Fact is, they are creating a quality product and charging a fair MARKET price. Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Let the markets drive pricing.

As for seeing people as dollars, you must not be in any type of sales or business ownership. Most business folks I work with are always wanted to give a superior product and great service--me included. But at the end of the day I have to feed my family, pay for college for 4 kids, mortgage, et. I don't work for free and my skills are not a charity. Expertise and Integrity is how I do business--money follows that.

captainOrbital

03-21-2007, 09:21 AM

While demand certainly becomes more important when you have a product with theoretically infinite supply, you still have the "horse armor" syndrome to contend with. While I'm sure most hardcore gamers and Rainbow 6 fanatics (of which I used to consider myself one) will grab the map pack without a second thought to the price, there are still a lot of people out there that are very casual gamers. The people who still think you can buy XBLA games with achievement points, for instance. A lot of the people I know are on the fence about the map pack and are waiting for a price announcement. I play co-op nearly every night, and I know at least a couple people who will probably ask me how to go about buying the pack(s) when it(they) become(s) available. So the lower price point is really there to cut into the rather sizable non-hardcore market and also to placate the rather less sizeable group who are already angry about in-game ads and paying $60 to essentially beta-test a AAA console title.

sixdays

03-21-2007, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by captainOrbital:
While demand certainly becomes more important when you have a product with theoretically infinite supply, you still have the "horse armor" syndrome to contend with. While I'm sure most hardcore gamers and Rainbow 6 fanatics (of which I used to consider myself one) will grab the map pack without a second thought to the price, there are still a lot of people out there that are very casual gamers. The people who still think you can buy XBLA games with achievement points, for instance. A lot of the people I know are on the fence about the map pack and are waiting for a price announcement. I play co-op nearly every night, and I know at least a couple people who will probably ask me how to go about buying the pack(s) when it(they) become(s) available. So the lower price point is really there to cut into the rather sizable non-hardcore market and also to placate the rather less sizeable group who are already angry about in-game ads and paying $60 to essentially beta-test a AAA console title.

You may be right. We'll see how it turns out. Searching now to see if UBI is listed on an exchange...

lifeisshort117

03-21-2007, 04:02 PM

sixdays,
you know what your talking about.
and im glad you say that you hope they charge 2000 points now.
because there are a real mess of a holes out there in the vegas realm.
i hate it.
if it gets rid of players because of the price,
sweet.
better for me to find real games that players acutally want to play and win.
and if it is 2000 points.
thats fine.
the price can be insentive for people to get a better job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

xxkangolxx

03-21-2007, 05:41 PM

Fact is, they are creating a quality product and charging a fair MARKET price.

Hahhahahaha
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

FrayedKnotJeff

03-21-2007, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by lifeisshort117:
sixdays,
you know what your talking about.
and im glad you say that you hope they charge 2000 points now.
because there are a real mess of a holes out there in the vegas realm.
i hate it.
if it gets rid of players because of the price,
sweet.
better for me to find real games that players acutally want to play and win.
and if it is 2000 points.
thats fine.
the price can be insentive for people to get a better job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://forums.xblbrothers.com/images/smilesmore/spit.gif

stevenrasnick

03-21-2007, 09:44 PM

I'll retract my name calling. It was uncalled for. I respect the hard work you have done raising a family. I'm not quite there yet. (17)

No, I don't hate America, either. I think capitalism is great as well. You say the market will decide if it's good enough, and you're entirely right. That's the issue though, and I didn't say this before, but they are aiming directly at a market completely opposite of the original game's fanbase. In an attempt to earn more. I understand they have family to feed. I understand they are not making games for charity. Maybe, though, they could've renamed the franchise, instead of deceiving it's (VERY loyal) fanbase.

As to Rainbow Six: Vegas being a quality product, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Of course the new fans are going to ignore the glaring bugs. They love this new, Halo-style, Rainbow Six. Previous fans, and current fans that can make a somewhat-unbiased judgment, can see the faults with the game, which after two patches, still haven't been ironed out. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are working on the game to fix it's issues, but if you were to look at the Rainbow Six: Vegas faq, and some of the earlier post, when the game first came out, I think you would reconsider your statement.

Pricing. I hate the statement, "you get what you pay for." Know why? Because I don't always get what I pay for. Especially when it comes to videogames. Sure, there are budget titles, bargain bins, and used sales, but let's just say for simplicity, that for the most part, games are currently $50-$60. There's a huge spectrum of quality out there, but since there is this market-wide price, that doesn't matter. "It's a videogame. It needs to be $50-$60." Market driven prices? Bull. Market driven quality control? Bull. Why do you see **** like Barbie Horse Adventure as one of the first 100 titles to become Xbox BC? (They did those based on high-selling Xbox titles, after all.) Why do excellent, more independent, and (dare I say) artsy titles like Psychonauts, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, and Okami get overlooked? Frankly, because most of the market can't tell their elbows from their *******s. I don't want to sound like one of those "everything on radio sucks" snobs, but most of the market are sheep. When they find something they like, everything needs to sound, play, look, etc. just like that, or it sucks. Period. "GRAW with a cover system? That's awesome! Now, Gears needs a cover system." The cover system is the "flavor of the month", as one of the forumers put it so wittily. So now it gets put into Rainbow.

I hope you can see where I am coming from, and thanks for replying even though I was a jerk. You made a good point, I'm not in business. I don't have corporate Ubisoft riding on my backside to make a product to appeal to the masses. I don't know that kind of pressure. Me and other individuals would have liked it a little more if they had gone about it in a different way I guess. It's nice to talk to someone who can make a point clearly, though.

I read somewhere, "R6V is the greatest shooter on teh market". I guess I just get a little fumed when I read this and think of how great the product could've been.

WorldSpawn2000

03-22-2007, 07:12 AM

If you want a game that is not made with profit in mind then go back to PC and download some shareware games.. or mods.

Also, if you don't think you are getting your money's worth from the game then sell it. Next rent it before you buy so you can be sure it is a good investment. You vote with your $$$. If you are buying the game even though you don't think its worth it, you are supporting the development of a "sub-par" game. Judging by the sales of the game, and popularity on Live most people agree that this game was worth the money... me included.

FrayedKnotJeff

03-22-2007, 07:16 AM

That was a great post Steve, but this guy has it all wrong and I'll tell you why.

Sixdays is a salesmen so he is going to paint a picture that he has kids to feed and that UbiSoft has kids to feed, well so do I.
You see he hates people like me on this forum who yell that we want a bone thrown to us when it is clear that UbiSoft is banking on their latest title. He is someone who wants to make it look like the product is worth more than it really is.
If we stand together and refuse to pay anymore (because you know I have kids to feed) then UbiSoft will be forced to give it to us with a great price, or find a sponsor to help push the product for them. We have the power because we hold what UbiSoft wants, the money.

No offence Sixdays, but you are a salesmen and just like lawyers, salesmen are pure evil.

Just my.02.

captainOrbital

03-22-2007, 07:40 AM

It's all about balance, just like in nature. Ubisoft has to keep a balance between shipping on time and shipping a perfect game. They have to keep a balance between placating the old-school Rainbow gamers and enticing the new-school Halo gamers. They also have to keep a balance between charging too much or too little for the DLC. I don't think that anyone really expects the map packs to be free, as much as we may wish it.

The odd thing is, as far as shipping quality products for a fair price, before the advent of Xbox Live, most console games were supposed to be bug-free. Originally, Microsoft had said that XBL would not be used to patch games, and they expected the same standard of quality after XBL than they did before XBL. Well, obviously that went out the window. But somehow, Microsoft Game Studios is able to ship games that are relatively clean, even after XBL, and it seems like most other publishers are struggling with that. It's weird. Maybe they should do the reverse of what MS originally intended to do with the 360, and charge $60 for first-party games and $50 for 3rd party ones.

sixdays

03-22-2007, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by stevenrasnick:
I'll retract my name calling. It was uncalled for. I respect the hard work you have done raising a family. I'm not quite there yet. (17)

No, I don't hate America, either. I think capitalism is great as well. You say the market will decide if it's good enough, and you're entirely right. That's the issue though, and I didn't say this before, but they are aiming directly at a market completely opposite of the original game's fanbase. In an attempt to earn more. I understand they have family to feed. I understand they are not making games for charity. Maybe, though, they could've renamed the franchise, instead of deceiving it's (VERY loyal) fanbase.

As to Rainbow Six: Vegas being a quality product, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Of course the new fans are going to ignore the glaring bugs. They love this new, Halo-style, Rainbow Six. Previous fans, and current fans that can make a somewhat-unbiased judgment, can see the faults with the game, which after two patches, still haven't been ironed out. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are working on the game to fix it's issues, but if you were to look at the Rainbow Six: Vegas faq, and some of the earlier post, when the game first came out, I think you would reconsider your statement.

Pricing. I hate the statement, "you get what you pay for." Know why? Because I don't always get what I pay for. Especially when it comes to videogames. Sure, there are budget titles, bargain bins, and used sales, but let's just say for simplicity, that for the most part, games are currently $50-$60. There's a huge spectrum of quality out there, but since there is this market-wide price, that doesn't matter. "It's a videogame. It needs to be $50-$60." Market driven prices? Bull. Market driven quality control? Bull. Why do you see **** like Barbie Horse Adventure as one of the first 100 titles to become Xbox BC? (They did those based on high-selling Xbox titles, after all.) Why do excellent, more independent, and (dare I say) artsy titles like Psychonauts, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, and Okami get overlooked? Frankly, because most of the market can't tell their elbows from their *******s. I don't want to sound like one of those "everything on radio sucks" snobs, but most of the market are sheep. When they find something they like, everything needs to sound, play, look, etc. just like that, or it sucks. Period. "GRAW with a cover system? That's awesome! Now, Gears needs a cover system." The cover system is the "flavor of the month", as one of the forumers put it so wittily. So now it gets put into Rainbow.

I hope you can see where I am coming from, and thanks for replying even though I was a jerk. You made a good point, I'm not in business. I don't have corporate Ubisoft riding on my backside to make a product to appeal to the masses. I don't know that kind of pressure. Me and other individuals would have liked it a little more if they had gone about it in a different way I guess. It's nice to talk to someone who can make a point clearly, though.

I read somewhere, "R6V is the greatest shooter on teh market". I guess I just get a little fumed when I read this and think of how great the product could've been.

Thanks for the reply. Apology accepted, thanks for that. I and many others do like R6V - ALOT. Does it have probs? Yes. Couldn't hear some gamers last night that I normally can hear. Have no idea why, and they said they fixed this. But, and maybe you hate this statement too, "It is what it is." Nothing I can do about it, but we still have a blast. I can tell you this...Im 33 yrs old and these game ROCK compared to what I was playing. Try..Coleco Vision. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

sixdays

03-22-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by FrayedKnotJeff:
That was a great post Steve, but this guy has it all wrong and I'll tell you why.

Sixdays is a salesmen so he is going to paint a picture that he has kids to feed and that UbiSoft has kids to feed, well so do I.
You see he hates people like me on this forum who yell that we want a bone thrown to us when it is clear that UbiSoft is banking on their latest title. He is someone who wants to make it look like the product is worth more than it really is.
If we stand together and refuse to pay anymore (because you know I have kids to feed) then UbiSoft will be forced to give it to us with a great price, or find a sponsor to help push the product for them. We have the power because we hold what UbiSoft wants, the money.

No offence Sixdays, but you are a salesmen and just like lawyers, salesmen are pure evil.

Just my.02.

Overgeneralizations are a definite sign of pure ignorance. And I am hope your exagerating. I'm not sure you even understand the nature of evil let alone to know what pure evil is.

Are there crooked lawyers and salespeople? Yes. Are there crooked mechanics, construction workers, computer techs, engineers, politians, et. Of course. It is not the job that make men crooked. It is crooked men that make the jobs they do crooked.

There are honest, intelligent, helpful, and ethical workers in ever field available. But to say salespeople are evil, mechanics are evil (I have been ripped off before), et. et. ad nausium, is to show inexperience and ignorance.

I hope in your life you can learn to judge a man by his character and not his career or position. Get to know a person. You have no idea whether or not what I sell is benefiting people and that I am doing my job with the utmost expertise and integrity. Yet you make such a brash and foolish statement.

On behalf of the salesmen and women I know and have worked with, they are good, honest people. They work hard, long hours, and often don't get paid much for their labor. Sometimes they get paid alot. I am greatful for the salespeople who bring quality products and services to my attention each day.

sixdays

03-22-2007, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by lifeisshort117:
sixdays,
you know what your talking about.
and im glad you say that you hope they charge 2000 points now.
because there are a real mess of a holes out there in the vegas realm.
i hate it.
if it gets rid of players because of the price,
sweet.
better for me to find real games that players acutally want to play and win.
and if it is 2000 points.
thats fine.
the price can be insentive for people to get a better job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Why should they get a better job..that may threaten their tax credits and welfare money? Why did one's self out of poverty and try to advance when Uncle Sammy keeps sending money? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

sixdays

03-22-2007, 08:42 AM

course, this thread it waaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic now. Im done..moving on.

captainOrbital

03-22-2007, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by sixdays:
Why should they get a better job..that may threaten their tax credits and welfare money? Why did one's self out of poverty and try to advance when Uncle Sammy keeps sending money? Oh lord. That's just what we need around here. A discussion on welfare and poverty.

FrayedKnotJeff

03-22-2007, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by sixdays:
Overgeneralizations are a definite sign of pure ignorance. And I am hope your exagerating. I'm not sure you even understand the nature of evil let alone to know what pure evil is.

Are there crooked lawyers and salespeople? Yes. Are there crooked mechanics, construction workers, computer techs, engineers, politians, et. Of course. It is not the job that make men crooked. It is crooked men that make the jobs they do crooked.

There are honest, intelligent, helpful, and ethical workers in ever field available. But to say salespeople are evil, mechanics are evil (I have been ripped off before), et. et. ad nausium, is to show inexperience and ignorance.

I hope in your life you can learn to judge a man by his character and not his career or position. Get to know a person. You have no idea whether or not what I sell is benefiting people and that I am doing my job with the utmost expertise and integrity. Yet you make such a brash and foolish statement.

On behalf of the salesmen and women I know and have worked with, they are good, honest people. They work hard, long hours, and often don't get paid much for their labor. Sometimes they get paid alot. I am greatful for the salespeople who bring quality products and services to my attention each day.

That's it sale it to me, sale it to me good!

Your job is to make me "think" I'm getting a bargain, when in reality you are getting (for the most part) a large commission for the product you are selling.
My post was meant to point that out, with the funny sarcasm that all salespeople are pure evil.

You are posting in a forum where 99.9% of the people are consumers of UbiSoft's products. You post that UbiSoft should charge us as much as they can to reap the largest profits thereby draining their customer's pockets for all its worth. Did you expect we would look at you like a hero?
The only people who are possibly looking at you like that are the people who work for UbiSoft.

Just my .02.

sixdays

03-22-2007, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by captainOrbital:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sixdays:
Why should they get a better job..that may threaten their tax credits and welfare money? Why did one's self out of poverty and try to advance when Uncle Sammy keeps sending money? Oh lord. That's just what we need around here. A discussion on welfare and poverty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol...yes, waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

sixdays

03-22-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by FrayedKnotJeff:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sixdays:
Overgeneralizations are a definite sign of pure ignorance. And I am hope your exagerating. I'm not sure you even understand the nature of evil let alone to know what pure evil is.

Are there crooked lawyers and salespeople? Yes. Are there crooked mechanics, construction workers, computer techs, engineers, politians, et. Of course. It is not the job that make men crooked. It is crooked men that make the jobs they do crooked.

There are honest, intelligent, helpful, and ethical workers in ever field available. But to say salespeople are evil, mechanics are evil (I have been ripped off before), et. et. ad nausium, is to show inexperience and ignorance.

I hope in your life you can learn to judge a man by his character and not his career or position. Get to know a person. You have no idea whether or not what I sell is benefiting people and that I am doing my job with the utmost expertise and integrity. Yet you make such a brash and foolish statement.

On behalf of the salesmen and women I know and have worked with, they are good, honest people. They work hard, long hours, and often don't get paid much for their labor. Sometimes they get paid alot. I am greatful for the salespeople who bring quality products and services to my attention each day.

That's it sale it to me, sale it to me good!

Your job is to make me "think" I'm getting a bargain, when in reality you are getting (for the most part) a large commission for the product you are selling.
My post was meant to point that out, with the funny sarcasm that all salespeople are pure evil.

You are posting in a forum where 99.9% of the people are consumers of UbiSoft's products. You post that UbiSoft should charge us as much as they can to reap the largest profits thereby draining their customer's pockets for all its worth. Did you expect we would look at you like a hero?
The only people who are possibly looking at you like that are the people who work for UbiSoft.

Just my .02. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sale it to me? Odd usage of the english language. My job is not to make you think anything. As a professional salesmen, and choosing what I sell, my job is to represent my product and company with the utmost integrity and expertise. My job as a salesmen is to educate you, the consumer, about products and/or services available. You make the decision on what to buy.

Spookme

03-22-2007, 09:16 AM

Guys,

First and foremost I have to say that this thread has been the most interesting i think I have read in a very long time!

Ok so, heres my thought and I admit up front that I until a couple of years ago was a salesmen (no egg throwing please!)

Ubisoft know that for the most part we want this pack and like any other business they know they can charge for it. There will have been development costs and those costs have to be brought back somewhere, somehow. We can sit and debate all day the wrongs and rights of the profit aspect of the charge for these packs, but like it or not. Ubisoft are a company that ultimately don't make games because they think its fun. They do it to make money. I do have to say that the amount of money that they make may in some peoples views be too much and in others not enough. My own personal view is, that it would be have an interesting marketing exercise by Ubisoft to offer this DLC FOC, why, because if your freshening up a game and offer free DLC, then you could argue that non R6V owners may be tempted to purchase. However again it comes back to the development costs. I know I know, chances are that the development as such was done during the actual production of the game itself and this map pack is an attempt to keep us all interested and part with more cash after, we paid for the game and in view that we all probably just paid out for GRAW2.

The only thing I can say is that people power is what would change the position on the cost for this and someone earlier suggested that if we refused to pay for the DLC and didn't take it then Ubisoft would have to rethink its price. However, to be fair its unlikely that enough people would refuse to purchase this DLC leaving everyone who feels unhappy to either tough it out or part with that cash.

As a X Salesmen, I personally think to say you need to feed your family is plain rubbish, if you were a good salesmen, then you family would already be supported and this little bit of extra income would be "holiday money" know what I mean! However I do see where this is likely to go and as much as I would love for this DLC to be free and as much as I think that they should consider it as a marketing event to make the DLC free, its unlikely to happen.

My understanding from within the industry is that its going to be between 800 - 1000 points.

All I can say to ubisoft is this; need an marketing guy with some interesting thoughts on how to keep your customer happy and still make bags of money???? drop me a line, Im sure we can talk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To everyone else, I love this game and thanks for an interesting and informative thread!

sixdays

03-22-2007, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Spookme:
Guys,

First and foremost I have to say that this thread has been the most interesting i think I have read in a very long time!

Ok so, heres my thought and I admit up front that I until a couple of years ago was a salesmen (no egg throwing please!)

Ubisoft know that for the most part we want this pack and like any other business they know they can charge for it. There will have been development costs and those costs have to be brought back somewhere, somehow. We can sit and debate all day the wrongs and rights of the profit aspect of the charge for these packs, but like it or not. Ubisoft are a company that ultimately don't make games because they think its fun. They do it to make money. I do have to say that the amount of money that they make may in some peoples views be too much and in others not enough. My own personal view is, that it would be have an interesting marketing exercise by Ubisoft to offer this DLC FOC, why, because if your freshening up a game and offer free DLC, then you could argue that non R6V owners may be tempted to purchase. However again it comes back to the development costs. I know I know, chances are that the development as such was done during the actual production of the game itself and this map pack is an attempt to keep us all interested and part with more cash after, we paid for the game and in view that we all probably just paid out for GRAW2.

The only thing I can say is that people power is what would change the position on the cost for this and someone earlier suggested that if we refused to pay for the DLC and didn't take it then Ubisoft would have to rethink its price. However, to be fair its unlikely that enough people would refuse to purchase this DLC leaving everyone who feels unhappy to either tough it out or part with that cash.

As a X Salesmen, I personally think to say you need to feed your family is plain rubbish, if you were a good salesmen, then you family would already be supported and this little bit of extra income would be "holiday money" know what I mean! However I do see where this is likely to go and as much as I would love for this DLC to be free and as much as I think that they should consider it as a marketing event to make the DLC free, its unlikely to happen.

My understanding from within the industry is that its going to be between 800 - 1000 points.

All I can say to ubisoft is this; need an marketing guy with some interesting thoughts on how to keep your customer happy and still make bags of money???? drop me a line, Im sure we can talk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To everyone else, I love this game and thanks for an interesting and informative thread!

Its pure rubbish to want to care for one's family, and as a result, whether its sales or some other field, expect a paycheck for that? Perhaps you misunderstood me.

And...you started selling yourself vying for a job! lol. At any rate, good post. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

FrayedKnotJeff

03-22-2007, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Spookme:
Guys,

First and foremost I have to say that this thread has been the most interesting i think I have read in a very long time!

Ok so, heres my thought and I admit up front that I until a couple of years ago was a salesmen (no egg throwing please!)

Ubisoft know that for the most part we want this pack and like any other business they know they can charge for it. There will have been development costs and those costs have to be brought back somewhere, somehow. We can sit and debate all day the wrongs and rights of the profit aspect of the charge for these packs, but like it or not. Ubisoft are a company that ultimately don't make games because they think its fun. They do it to make money. I do have to say that the amount of money that they make may in some peoples views be too much and in others not enough. My own personal view is, that it would be have an interesting marketing exercise by Ubisoft to offer this DLC FOC, why, because if your freshening up a game and offer free DLC, then you could argue that non R6V owners may be tempted to purchase. However again it comes back to the development costs. I know I know, chances are that the development as such was done during the actual production of the game itself and this map pack is an attempt to keep us all interested and part with more cash after, we paid for the game and in view that we all probably just paid out for GRAW2.

The only thing I can say is that people power is what would change the position on the cost for this and someone earlier suggested that if we refused to pay for the DLC and didn't take it then Ubisoft would have to rethink its price. However, to be fair its unlikely that enough people would refuse to purchase this DLC leaving everyone who feels unhappy to either tough it out or part with that cash.

As a X Salesmen, I personally think to say you need to feed your family is plain rubbish, if you were a good salesmen, then you family would already be supported and this little bit of extra income would be "holiday money" know what I mean! However I do see where this is likely to go and as much as I would love for this DLC to be free and as much as I think that they should consider it as a marketing event to make the DLC free, its unlikely to happen.

My understanding from within the industry is that its going to be between 800 - 1000 points.

All I can say to ubisoft is this; need an marketing guy with some interesting thoughts on how to keep your customer happy and still make bags of money???? drop me a line, Im sure we can talk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To everyone else, I love this game and thanks for an interesting and informative thread!

I know you don't need my approval but...http://forums.xblbrothers.com/images/smilesmore/clap.gif

Spookme

03-22-2007, 09:32 AM

Six,

I ment no offence to anyone with my post, but thanks for your reply http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

FOZ4321

03-22-2007, 09:35 AM

1200 for a couple of new maps?? screw that!! Call of duty 3 which is a superb game only asked 800 for 5 new maps all of which were massive!!! And their not as buggy as this game. They also game you the bonus level "champs" for free!! With GRAW 2 out now (much better than this game) people wouldnt waste 1200 on new maps. 800 they would probably waste tops. Thats my 2 cents worth,

captainOrbital

03-22-2007, 09:42 AM

SalesMEN refers to more than one salesMAN. Come on people!

Spookme

03-22-2007, 09:47 AM

captainOrbital

Your correct and thanks for putting me right, Im a X Salesman.

But surely, if your a captain, its a title and your captain should start with a C,no?

I'm messing mate, cheers though
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MechaDupek

03-23-2007, 09:24 AM

Why would any professional entertain the rants of a 17-year-old? Clearly he has never labored to bring a product to market. To-date, all his information about "business" and "development" is academic.

He will one day learn why we strive for progress and not perfection.

captainOrbital

03-23-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by MechaDupek:
Why would any professional entertain the rants of a 17-year-old? Clearly he has never labored to bring a product to market. To-date, all his information about "business" and "development" is academic. Why the hell not? What's the difference? Sometimes, when you're working on a project you take a minute or so to take a look at some websites devoted to your hobbies. That way you don't get burned out looking at text and photos and website code or whateverthehell else you've got going on. Not every "professional" is a paragon of productivity, either. I'm not speaking of myself, necessarily, but people in all sorts of careers use the web to let off a little steam during the work day. Not to mention, internet forums seem to be populated by ranting 12- to 17-year-olds that use the English language like a caveman uses a rock. So who else are you going to rant at?

stevenrasnick

03-23-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by MechaDupek:
Why would any professional entertain the rants of a 17-year-old? Clearly he has never labored to bring a product to market. To-date, all his information about "business" and "development" is academic.

He will one day learn why we strive for progress and not perfection.

First, my post was not a rant. It was an apology to six, and a statement of what I know about the videogame industry. CLEARLY, it's not as much as you. Sorry. I have a legitimate concern for this industry, as I invest a lot of my time (and money, yes, MY money) into it. Be it several videogame websites and forums, or actually playing the games themselves. 'Get a life', right? Wrong. I'm very ill, I spend a lot of my time in and out of UNC Hospital. Videogames help me cope.

Before writing me off as a typical 17 year old, try to think of other teens. Think of most of thier behaviors. I don't have a lot of friends my age because I can't stand most of "us". I can't wait to get just a little bit older, so people like you will get off it and actually consider an opinion like mine legitimate.

If you want to know more:

CF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cystic_fibrosis)