Question about Segundo in BG&E storyline

[tlexaq]

Hi, I’m a student writing a paper on the proliferation of AI and cyborgs in computer game design.

I have played Beyond Good and Evil (and am currently playing it again - for the paper http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and thought it was awesome, And wanted to include the character Segundo in my research. However I can't seem to find much info on him as he is a fairly minor character.

I was wondering if anyone here has any ideas about him. Like, what is he?, where is he from? is he implanted?, what does he do?, what is his role in the story? Etc…

I’m interested in Segundo in particular because unlike games like Halo or Homeworld he seems to be less of an omnipotent force, and more of a character. He also has a visible form and a physical interface and is a male in a female AI world.

I’d love to hear what anyone has to say, and I will of course give credit to any info I use. If anyone has any other ideas about AIs and cyborgs it would be great to hear about them also.
Thanks very much.
Tess

[Prof_Plum]

As you mention, Secundo is a somewhat minor character, and not a lot of background is given about him. From what I can gather from the few appearances Secundo makes in the game, he is an AI Jade keeps stored in her S.A.C storage device, and has the primary function of, amongst others, monitoring Jade's inventory, supplies, and funds. I get the impression that he is a ready-installed piece of hardware that came part-and-parcel with the S.A.C, and his actual processor is most likely located somewhere within the storage device, although near the start of the game, Secundo comments on how a Domz monster effected Jade’s “Psycho-karmaâ€Â�, suggesting he has access to Jade’s vitals and neural patterns, and implying that he may actually exist as bodily implant.
Secundo's holographic "avatar" (whose appearance may or may not be, along with it’s personality, variable to the owner's preference and personal taste. Note: Perhaps this is a suggestion of Jade’s taste in men) is projected by means of unknown technology directly from the S.A.C device.
Nothing is divulged of how, when and why Jade acquired Secundo, but one could speculate that, due to Jade’s line of work and often less-than-ample funds, she may not of had much choice in the matter.
Well that’s all I can pull together for the time being, good luck with that paper!
Oh, and just out of interest, are you studying game design? It’s something I’ve considered for a time, but have never really found the means to do so. Any background about what to expect would be a great help. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[Jerichowilks]

Secundo, to me, is an A.I. program that is part of the S.A.C. It organizes, downloads, uploads, maintains information and the individual wearing it. I'm guessing that a person's S.A.C. personality is different since Pey'J's and Double H's S.A.C. never made an appearance..yet. A hologram projector is built inside the device and allows the projected image to interact with its environment. Secundo could just be an image used to define the program..a randomizer of faces, bodies, and whatnot.

Hope that helps a little even though Prof.Plum explained it in greater detail. I believe you shall do well in your project sir!

[Daroth_343]

Maybe I'm pointing out the obvious, but is it possible that Pey'j was the one who created Secundo? Pey'j does say something like "gonna have to recheck your circuits" or something along those lines...

[tlexaq]

Thanks so much for all your replies, I am studing Multimedia Design, however we choose our own specific areas to focus on. What im doing with myself probably ammounts to interactive animation, digital illustration and game design.
Mines more of an actual design course than a technical course so we learn how to make all the pretty stuff, but are all slightly lacking in the coding area.

[Lynx-0-]

I'd love to help, but it seems that I'm a bit too late! Theres not much that I can say that hasn't been allready.

An interesting thought: Why give Secundo a spanish avatar personality in a world that has none? He's the only character in the game that talks with that language, which is what sets him apart and makes him unique. Why do you think he was made so different instead of the staple "sexy female AI voice" or the "droned out robotic male" voice?

[Jerichowilks]

Ooo I can actually answer that question in a meaningful yet insightful way!!!

<Clears throat>

Well, take a look at Beyond Good and Evil. It isn't your typical fairytale adventure. The main character is a Female that looks to be asian/hispanic-ish. Her uncle is a hog. There are creatures never before seen in other video games before floating in the sky or huge whales crashing through the waves. Jamaican Rhinos own a Vehicular Repair shop. Why be casual and add a 'sexy female avatar' or a 'robotic male' counterpart that's been done in other games, films, etc.? It just wouldn't fit in the scheme of things that are original in the BG&E universe. The thing about Secundo is that he is an original, much like every other character in the storyline. If you go back and try to think of all the characters and who they may relate to in other video games or films, you would have a hard time because each one is different meaning that the DomZ war doesn't affect just humans, but animals and plants as well. But that is an entirely different subject right there... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Diversity is the Beginning of Creativity. Assembling different parts to create a unique world.

...geez, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Add-On: Oh yeah, just because you didn't get to hear another person speak spainish doesn't particularly mean the whole planet is Spainish-Absoleet. Think back at the Hover races and the spainish song that plays(Fun and Mini Games). Although we didn't necessarily get to hear another character speak the language or have the tongue, there are still various speech patterns going on in names, music, and other media(Which I can't think of at this moment)[And Propaganda, the Akuda Bar theme, is sung in French, I think.] DIVERSITY!!

[QuiGonJ]

And let's not forget he has communications facilities enough to act as Jade's agent, as in talking to the senora from the science center or sending pictures back to the resistance later in the game.

[btw, cool thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif]

[Thiendrah]

[QUOTE]...geez, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif QUOTE]

Don't get smug,OK? You'll just swell your ego even more. And I really don't think you need an even bigger head. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[bitebug2003]

Originally posted by Thiendrah:
[QUOTE]...geez, I'm good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif QUOTE]

Don't get smug,OK? You'll just swell your ego even more. And I really don't think you need an even bigger head. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I've seen your profile and note that your pretty young Thiendrah.
Just had your birthday too.
I guess the above can be forgiven http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[tlexaq]

Oh yeah, just because you didn't get to hear another person speak spainish doesn't particularly mean the whole planet is Spainish-Absoleet

It the great words of The Doctor:
"Lots of worlds have a south."
Good point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Thiendrah]

I've seen your profile and note that your pretty young Thiendrah.
Just had your birthday too.

What do you want from me, I'm only 14 years old!
And my birthday was all the way back in March.(Just thought you'd know)

[bitebug2003]

Yup which is recent - anyways I don't want anything off you - It was a comment on your post.

You apologised for your facetious behavior - please refrain from carrying on with it....

That is all

[Lynx-0-]

Well, take a look at Beyond Good and Evil. It isn't your typical fairytale adventure. The main character is a Female that looks to be asian/hispanic-ish. Her uncle is a hog. There are creatures never before seen in other video games before floating in the sky or huge whales crashing through the waves. Jamaican Rhinos own a Vehicular Repair shop. Why be casual and add a 'sexy female avatar' or a 'robotic male' counterpart that's been done in other games, films, etc.? It just wouldn't fit in the scheme of things that are original in the BG&E universe. The thing about Secundo is that he is an original, much like every other character in the storyline. If you go back and try to think of all the characters and who they may relate to in other video games or films, you would have a hard time because each one is different meaning that the DomZ war doesn't affect just humans, but animals and plants as well. But that is an entirely different subject right there... Happy

Diversity is the Beginning of Creativity. Assembling different parts to create a unique world.

Ahh, Jericho, you've outdone yourself once again!

[sjvan0]

Originally posted by Prof_Plum:
although near the start of the game, Secundo comments on how a Domz monster effected Jade’s “Psycho-karmaâ€Â�, suggesting he has access to Jade’s vitals and neural patterns, and implying that he may actually exist as bodily implant.


Well, considering that the SAC is able to scan things and store them inside itself, I think it's more likely that it simply does various kinds of scan to measure heart rate, brain activity, brain wave patterns, etc., rather than being a physical implant. IMO, Secundo is pretty much a "human" representation of the numbers that a normal body-monitoring computer would give, eg. instead of showing a graph of Jade's brain activity, Secundo says that something got inside her psycho-karma (which probably means her subconcious), thus making it more user-friendly in the way that humans interact with other humans better than with machines. In the times when you see Secundo physically interacting with things like computers, I believe that it's again just a "human" cover for the cold computing that's behind it.

[Aurora-Storm]

Originally posted by Daroth_343:
Maybe I'm pointing out the obvious, but is it possible that Pey'j was the one who created Secundo? Pey'j does say something like "gonna have to recheck your circuits" or something along those lines...


I think the only reason for that is Pey'j is a mechanic, and can readily fix or provide maintenence for almost any piece of mechanical equipment, if provided the right tools. He doesn't seem to like Secundo or his "harebrained ideas" too much. A grudge or something. Maybe they have a history?

[Denden666Piek]

Originally posted by Aurora-Storm:
He doesn't seem to like Secundo or his "harebrained ideas" too much. A grudge or something. Maybe they have a history? That's an interesting thought. Maybe Secundo was designed to look like someone from Pey'j's past, maybe by Pey'j, maybe by a friend like Jade's father perhaps. But if that were true, Pey'j would probably be much nicer to Secundo.

[Daroth_343]

Since Pey'j was capable of building a spaceship, I don't think it's too farfetched to think he's capable of building an advanced AI. Secundo may have simply developed his own personality over time and end up arguing with Pey'j like we see in the game.

[Denden666Piek]

And Pey'j slapped himself in the end for being to much of a genius and making Secundo too clever. Until Secundo saved their butts that is, on the moon. I am really beginning to think that it was Pey'j who made Secundo. Like Daroth said, the reason they're arguing so much is because Secundo is a learning A.I. He's even developed himself to a point where he can override security and at the same time have the computer call him by his name, all that by simply pushing some blank buttons. Now that was something that I found really impressive.

[sjvan0]

Originally posted by Denden666Piek:
all that by simply pushing some blank buttons. Now that was something that I found really impressive.

IMO, it wasn't really pushing the buttons (how can ahologram touch things, anyway?), but rather remotely accesssing it from the SAC, with the hologram just being a simple illusion to make the AI seem more human. You have to remeber that Secundo is just that: AI. It's a computer first and foremost, with a "personality" attached to it to make human-AI interaction more natural. As I said before, (most) humans interact better with a machine when it seems human. It probably is a learning-AI, and it probably edits it's "personality" as it reacts to it's surroundings, giving the illusion of emotions.

[Daroth_343]

Originally posted by sjvan0:
It probably is a learning-AI, and it probably edits it's "personality" as it reacts to it's surroundings, giving the illusion of emotions.
If I understand correctly, you're saying that the entity we know as "Secundo" is more like a user interface to a computer rather than an actual sentient being. To me it would seem the other way around, meaning that Secundo really is the "person" we see. While he may be an AI, he acts more or less like a human being. I don't think his emotions are just an illusion. Whether or not his emotions are the result of his initial programming doesn't really matter. After all you could say we ourselves are programmed to display our emotions when they are "triggered" by a certain event, not unlike the programming behind an AI.

[Thiendrah]

He's a hologram! End of story. He's not real, he lives in a computer and scans Jade's things and keeps her money. He's not human. Period. The end. Good-bye! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif