Mind your manners. Its not like its the end of the world [Archive]

ChrisIhao

08-19-2011, 02:14 AM

Ok, while I strongly agree that the DRM, FPS cap and unskippable cut-scenes are all annoyances, the level of harsh communication on these forums are frankly beginning to frighten me. I mean, we paid only 15 euros or dollars and should be able to keep on living a normal life?

I totally understand the concept of frustration, but from reading some of the headings and posts here it would seem like you have lost your houses, cars or dogs in a fire. Its not THAT bad. No need for asking someone to die or whatever, like observable here on these forums. Thats what 8 year olds tend to do.

Its also very obvious that aggression is contagious and that you guys rile each other up to a ridiculous temperament level. I guess the last drop was when several people here started giving Mr_Shade the "good intended" advice to get out of the forums. Now, in what way is THAT supposed to help? I am VERY glad none of the more angry occupants of these forums these days are peace negotiators.

Ok, chill out guys and lets hope Ubisoft get their house in order.

TheReleaseDate

08-19-2011, 02:29 AM

It's more about the publisher's malpractices that have gone on for the last couple of years than just this game. Many people have continued throwing money out on games that are published by this joke that calls itself a company.

People were promised something, doesn't matter for how much money, and the company changed its mind and disappointed many, many people. This has been happening with all their games, but From Dust was the last straw for many people. Instead of porting it properly, they spent their time including something people were promised wasn't going to be in the game.

Personally, I don't know why anybody thought this was going to be different with From Dust - but they have the right to be angry at Ubisoft.

ARustyFirePlace

08-19-2011, 02:39 AM

Ubisoft lied, took our money, and ****ed us with 10 ****s in the *** at once.

Mind your ****ing manners you ****.

ChrisIhao

08-19-2011, 02:45 AM

@TheReleaseDate: No problem with understanding that, it is more a question of how to manage that anger. Also, I dont agree that all Ubisoft games have been bad ports or whatever, thats overstating the problem. The assassins creed series and Just Cause 2 are just some examples of games that have been ported in an excellent manner.

Oh, and btw. This is not a case of "me" versus "you people". I was just as disappointed in seeing the FPS cap in particular.

Anyhow, hope things get sorted out in the weeks to come (although I must admit history makes me less than certain of that).

ChrisIhao

08-19-2011, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by ARustyFirePlace:
Ubisoft lied, took our money, and ****ed us with 10 ****s in the *** at once.

Mind your ****ing manners you ****.

Thanks for proving my point mr. "lack of vocabulary". Watch your blood pressure.

Artaire

08-19-2011, 02:58 AM

Chris- Arustyfireplace is clearly trolling so dont take that to heart.

The reason why most people are angry is because of the reasons already said, not everyone is a raging looney. Im not raging like a maniac even though I cant even play the game due to ubisoft lieing and making no changeable graphics settings whatsoever+everything else thats already been moaned about.

I've seen on a lot of posts REFUND NOW, THIS IS CRAP RARARARA. I think people should give Ubisoft a chance to sort this crap out at least. You dont just pay for a game you pay for a service. I personally think it looks like its a fun game so im just tossing it to one side for a few weeks to give them the chance to get their act together rather than raging.

If they don't sort it out then they lose a customer, no QQ.

You have to admit though, the person who approved that this is feasable as a PC game when its clearly imported from 360 with less than a months work is very dumb^^

Th3Godlik3

08-19-2011, 02:58 AM

@ChrisIhao

While I do exactly know what you mean, but I have to say that this reaction is understandable. Ubisoft lied. They say it would have a one time only activation and no we ended up with a very restrictive DRM. Ubisoft is not learning (after Driver, one might hoped that they would change, but no).

And I wouldn't call it bad manners. We are the customers and we feel cheated. Simple as that. Now when I feel cheated and there is no reaction / apology, I do tend to get angry, and so do many users more here on the forum.

WOuldn't you be angry when you come home and realize that the product you bought is a different from the one they advertised? I call it fraud.

The worst thing is, we know that Ubisoft will not get their house in order, since they dont care (which makes people even more angry).

ChrisIhao

08-19-2011, 03:00 AM

You have to admit though, the person who approved that this is feasable as a PC game when its clearly imported from 360 with less than a months work is very dumb^^

Hehe. Yeah, I agree on that Artaire. And thanks for the level headed comment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cheers

aaaayes

08-19-2011, 03:06 AM

I get it, the anger of those who cannot even get the game started, the anguish of crashes & with all the efforts in trying to breath life into a cadaver, still results in the same in the end...flat-lined from the get go.

This is the result of a modified product.

Give the Staff here a humanitarian break.

Selling a BMW with a 4 cylinder engine from a Pinto will never please a customer UBI.

Mr. Shade is not the messenger that rode in saying Earth & Water & this is not Sparta so, lets not act like it.

Lets continue to bring up the issues & express our complaints in a civilized way. For this call to calm, I totally agree.

Artaire

08-19-2011, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Th3Godlik3:
The worst thing is, we know that Ubisoft will not get their house in order, since they dont care (which makes people even more angry).

The feedback threads are finally up, so they must care a little ^^. Just make sure to post your feedback in there folks without being too ragey.

Gameplay feedback and new features
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1064939/m/7461065249 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751064939/m/7461065249)

Bugs and glitches feedback
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1064939/m/8951065249 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751064939/m/8951065249)

Gogogo

Th3Godlik3

08-19-2011, 03:31 AM

Opening two feedback discussions is - as much as I appreciate it- not the solution (alrdy postet there tho ^^ ).
And tbh, right now I believe that Ubi will only react to protect their From Dust PS3 Sales and because of articles like this:
From Dust's PC Release is a Man-Made Disaster (http://kotaku.com/5832380/from-dusts-pc-release-is-a-man+made-disaster)

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by Th3Godlik3:
Opening two feedback discussions is - as much as I appreciate it- not the solution (alrdy postet there tho ^^ ).
We always open threads to collect that kind of feedback - it's important that people who want to play the game, are able to highlight any bugs and also chat about features they would like.

This is nothing special due to any news or bad press.

I delayed posting them, until the spam and rants calmed down, as to make sure that the people who need the fixes, get heard.

Methons

08-19-2011, 03:37 AM

to be honest though they have had nearly 2 years to work on this game. from the get go it was going to come out on PC and its not a very long game. they dont really have a reasonable exscuse for deleivering such a bad product. i mean indie companys do better than this. minecraft is better than this.

i never thought i would see a game be over hyped as badly as fable 3. i was wrong.

DRMDriver

08-19-2011, 03:40 AM

Shade stop insulting peoples intelligence...
and stop banning people for no reason
yes im pointing at you.
oh, and spam? get a life plz.

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by DRMDriver:
Shade stop insulting peoples intelligence...
and stop banning people for no reason
yes im pointing at you.
oh, and spam? get a life plz. Posting links to pirate software = Your forum account gets suspended. [breach of the rules of the forum]

Posting pornographic / disgusting images on a E rated forum = Your forum account gets suspended. [breach of the rules of the forum]

Making duplicate accounts to bypass a ban = Your forum account gets suspended. [breach of the rules of the forum]

All clearly stated in the rules you agreed to when you signed up, maybe if you followed them you would not be banned..

So - no one is to blame for your ban apart from yourself.

If you had not posted the images - I may have let you return - if you have learned not to post links.. but you didn't.

shawnchi

08-19-2011, 04:44 AM

Are you serious?

At least the game WORKS for you.

Also, Ubisoft lied in our faces about the DRM.

http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/...d-copy-of-from-dust/ (http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/valve-to-offer-refund-for-every-sold-copy-of-from-dust/)

Personally, I find it despicable when a large company such as Ubisoft lies in the consumers face. If you're going to include DRM in a game, why not just say it up front instead of being a group of [edit:swearing removed] cowards and lying to your customers?

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by shawnchi:
Are you serious?
Can I remind you that swearing is against the forum rules.. These forums are E rated so swearing is prohibited.

If you bypass the swear filter on purpose as you continue to do, you may face a suspension.

Needless to say, that won't help anyone - so please avoid swearing.

Timppaface

08-19-2011, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by shawnchi:
Are you serious?

At least the game WORKS for you.

Also, Ubisoft lied in our faces about the DRM.

http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/...d-copy-of-from-dust/ (http://lo-ping.org/2011/08/18/valve-to-offer-refund-for-every-sold-copy-of-from-dust/)

Personally, I find it despicable when a large company such as Ubisoft lies in the consumers face. If you're going to include DRM in a game, why not just say it up front instead of being a group of [edit:swearing removed] cowards and lying to your customers?

Is it true that they actually removed the original post from the forums to prevent people from seeing it until it started a massive flame war?

Th3Godlik3

08-19-2011, 05:43 AM

Wasn't really a flamewar, as soon as the first people where complaining about the deleted post, it reappeared.
However, if anybody wants/needs it, here the original post (screenshot)

Screenshot (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6645/drmgo.jpg)

noTHINGfaced

08-19-2011, 05:50 AM

I dont think its a flame war exactly - but I can understand why emotions are high. It's difficult to not feel slightly cheated by Ubisoft and their statement re. DRM... That's why Im back in this forum after, what, three years.

Fairness and trust.

Th3Godlik3

08-19-2011, 05:55 AM

And dont forget that there hasn't been a statement yet regarding the whole DRM issue, only a quick change in the "interpretation" of their own statement. I don't know about the others, but I'm looking forward to that statement

TheReleaseDate

08-19-2011, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by ChrisIhao:
@TheReleaseDate: No problem with understanding that, it is more a question of how to manage that anger. Also, I dont agree that all Ubisoft games have been bad ports or whatever, thats overstating the problem. The assassins creed series and Just Cause 2 are just some examples of games that have been ported in an excellent manner.

Oh, and btw. This is not a case of "me" versus "you people". I was just as disappointed in seeing the FPS cap in particular.

Anyhow, hope things get sorted out in the weeks to come (although I must admit history makes me less than certain of that).

While I agree the anger might be mismanaged, Ubisoft isn't handling this (or anything) particularly well.

AC2 had bad DRM IIRC, and Just Cause 2 looked great on my rig but the controls (imo) were much smoother with a gamepad (as in AC2).

I was really looking forward to Driver: San Francisco until I remembered/saw that Ubisoft was involved. Now I'll just have to wait a week after release and stick to other games for the MP, it seems.

noTHINGfaced

08-19-2011, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Th3Godlik3:
And dont forget that there hasn't been a statement yet regarding the whole DRM issue, only a quick change in the "interpretation" of their own statement.

Yes, I expect there will be one since this is getting quite a lot of attention in the general gaming media. Im sure Ubisoft would prefer to just ride it out and hope it just goes away, which it will when emotions and the bad behaviours tail off.

I do raise a wry smile when I read the 'gonna take you to court and sue yo' ***' posts though! That's just amusing.

For me, I've invested in From Dust - I took the word of the moderators on trust and purchased for my missus to play. The post was incorrect at best, misleading at worst and so I feel aggrieved and cheated by Ubisoft; perfectly natural and expected reaction.

All about trust and fairness.

Caziban

08-19-2011, 07:00 AM

Ubisoft lied. That's what's kicking me in the face. This is the first gaming company I've ever purchased from that's made a perfectly straightforward claim, that ended being total crap. Never seen that before. But, according to some other posts, this is typical Ubi behavior? In any case, like the post above me, I'm going to wait a week before considering purchasing any game from Ubisoft anymore. I was really looking forward to From Dust, too.

In either case, if anyone can confirm this: (A second lie from Ubisoft will make me never buy a product from them again.) Some users are starting to claim that you need an Internet connection THROUGHOUT the ENTIRETY of playing. Some user claimed that he was given a "Internet connection lost - Please wait to reconnect." message while he was playing the game!!!

Is this true? If it is, adios Ubi.

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Caziban:

In either case, if anyone can confirm this: (A second lie from Ubisoft will make me never buy a product from them again.) Some users are starting to claim that you need an Internet connection THROUGHOUT the ENTIRETY of playing. Some user claimed that he was given a "Internet connection lost - Please wait to reconnect." message while he was playing the game!!!

Is this true? If it is, adios Ubi.

I can only say what is said to me, and what was tested - you only need to sign in once, after that you can play offline.

The it has been tested, by playing it and pulling the network cable out - and the game continued.

Some people appear to be posting otherwise - so something is very strange here.

I would like others to try it, since you may belive them more than myself.

re the removal of the original post - since the information was confusing - I have made a new post, with the original content in it - so people are able to see.

I did that since it would be unfair to the person who posted the info in the first place, to edit their post.

Nothing is being 'hidden' or covered up - but if people want a person to shout at - then it may as well be me - since I am here.

As too the statement - I have no word on any so far - it may be a case of waiting and seeing now the information posted is clearer.

Daroth_343

08-19-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
As too the statement - I have no word on any so far - it may be a case of waiting and seeing now the information posted is clearer.
To be honest I still think the sticky is confusing since it's now showing both the old and new information without noting that the old information is quite simply incorrect. I assume you're not allowed to actually state that the old information is wrong in your post, but that really shows Ubisoft is trying to avoid taking any responsibility here. I really hope we'll get an official statement soon where Ubisoft admits they messed up and where they tell people how they're going to fix it.

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Daroth_343:

To be honest I still think the sticky is confusing since it's now showing both the old and new information without noting that the old information is quite simply incorrect. I assume you're not allowed to actually state that the old information is wrong in your post, but that really shows Ubisoft is trying to avoid taking any responsibility here. I really hope we'll get an official statement soon where Ubisoft admits they messed up and where they tell people how they're going to fix it. this is not an excuse or an 'coverup post' - just my personal description [which is not an official statement] about what happened with the pinned threads.

I left the original post up in the new one for the time being - people knee jerked and started panic posting when it was removed.

I felt it was unfair to edit someone else's post [the original] so I removed it - while I wrote a new one - this was jumped on by news sites as a 'cover up'...

So I replaced it while the new one, written by myself, was done.. [this again was jumped on by news sites]

I will re-edit the post later and remove the old post - and allow people to shout about a 'cover up'- Since I agree it is confusing - however people wanted it leaving...

The wording used in my post, is being used on the official pages, so that is 100% correct.

The DRM info posted at point of sale, is what is important - since that and the Terms Of Sale, is what people agreed too, and would over rule any non legally binding forum post with poorly worded or incorrect information.

The DRM information posted on the download sites, was clear, correct and to the point.

Hopefully after the weekend, we may see a statement - however I can't say if or when that will happen.

I am not entering into a discussion about the original post, since I did not write it.

My comments are already being used to attack myself, so I refuse to give trolls more ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you want to discuss this further - I suggest you contact me via PM.

[edited to make clearer - and to upset any news sites copy/pasting it]

Daroth_343

08-19-2011, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I will re-edit the post later and remove the old post - and allow people to shout about a 'cover up'- Since I agree it is confusing - however people wanted it leaving...
Just to clarify, but I wasn't saying the old post should be removed, I was simply saying there should have been a sentence after it that said the information was incorrect, followed by the new information that details how the DRM requires an online authentication every time you start the game.

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Daroth_343:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I will re-edit the post later and remove the old post - and allow people to shout about a 'cover up'- Since I agree it is confusing - however people wanted it leaving...
Just to clarify, but I wasn't saying the old post should be removed, I was simply saying there should have been a sentence after it that said the information was incorrect, followed by the new information that details how the DRM requires an online authentication every time you start the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well the official post about the DRM - is as it stands now.

The other content just confuses more people - and since the Point of Sale details are the important ones, having any confusion on the forums, does not help.

diamond-mx

08-19-2011, 11:11 AM

The original post was quite clearly worded, and I think any claims that it was 'misunderstood' is a blatant lie.

It said 'one-time activation'
The game clearly needs to be activated every time it is run.

Your claims that it should have been considered unofficial are disinguous - it was widely accepted as a fact, which many people based their purchasing decisions on, that it could be run offline after a single activation. Given this was supposed to be the post 'clarifying' people's worries, it should be considered more official than any other source.

This was either genuinely unbelievably bad wording, or intentional misinformation.
It's that old "malice or incompetence" thing.

Ubisoft owes their (now ex-)customers an open letter apology and an offer of a refund to every customer.

Enough weaseling.

Campuschris

08-19-2011, 11:26 AM

It may not be the end of the world but I do have certain principles that I believe in. I will not just give up my $15 and support a shady company like this due to complacency because they refused to give me back my money the first time.

An official Ubisoft forum post, made by an UBISOFT EMPLOYEE, states that a one time registration would be necessary and after that offline play would be available. In about 5 hours I leave for a couple week long trip for which I bought this game to help keep myself entertained.

A day after release, just to make sure that we could not get a refund on the game from steam, a different (completely unrelated. Sorry Mr_Shade) Ubisoft employee removed that post and added an edited version stating that offline play is, in fact, complete IMPOSSIBLE and that you must have an internet connect every time you wish to play the game.

I was lied to and cheated out of my money for a game I cannot play. I hate, more than anything, the idea that my money went to them as a reward for screwing myself and many other people over. The only thing making this somewhat sweeter is the MASSIVE amount of bad publicity this company has received on the matter.

I, and many others like myself, have been using other gaming forums and communities to keep people appraised of what is happening here in the hopes of saving other people from doing business with a company such as this. I'd love to see how many Heroes VI preoders have been cancelled. I sure as hell cancelled mine!

For those curious, here is the post which was removed the day after release due to the blatant lie posted with it, and replaced with another that "corrects" the post. This OFFICIAL POST BY AN UBISOFT EMPLOYEE is the reason most of us purchased the game

http://webcache.googleusercont...ource=www.google.com (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4TkXPnx-vroJ:forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751064939/m/8501013939+site:forums.ubi.com+from+dust+drm+clari fication&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com)

Mr_Shade

08-19-2011, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Campuschris:

A day after release, just to make sure that we could not get a refund on the game from steam, the same Ubisoft employee removed that post and added an edited version stating that offline play is, in fact, complete IMPOSSIBLE and that you must have an internet connect every time you wish to play the game.

Just to correct you - and the news sites who are most likely reading these replies..

It was not the same 'ubisoft employee' - I added the new correct and clearer information - which was on Ubisofts behalf.

You can play offline - as long as you sign in and then disconnect.

Well - I will leave you to discuss it further - I have stated the reason that the new post is worded the way it is, and corrected your misinformation which is my only concern.

Either way - there may be an official statement as to the forum post - after the weekend, so I will leave it to them to make any further statements.

Campuschris

08-19-2011, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Campuschris:

A day after release, just to make sure that we could not get a refund on the game from steam, the same Ubisoft employee removed that post and added an edited version stating that offline play is, in fact, complete IMPOSSIBLE and that you must have an internet connect every time you wish to play the game.

Just to correct you - and the news sites who are most likely reading these replies..

It was not the same 'ubisoft employee'.

Well - I will leave you to discuss it further - I have stated the reason that the new post is worded the way it is, and corrected your misinformation which is my only concern.

Either way - there may be an official statement as to the forum post - after the weekend, so I will leave it to them to make any further statements. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aha. Thanks for that. Will fix.

Campuschris

08-19-2011, 11:41 AM

AH nvm. I see what you mean. I was mistaken.,

Methons

08-19-2011, 11:54 AM

Personally i think ubisoft should make an apology right now and not dawdle around for the whole weekend and hope it will all go away.

Th3Godlik3

08-19-2011, 11:59 AM

I'm awfully sorry for the off topic but:

Ubisoft uses "Reloaded" cracked executable for fix (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/18/ubisoft-having-a-crack/)

AFAIK there hasn't been a real official statement yet, and it has been 3 years now, so don't be so optimistic about a statement regarding From Dust.

diamond-mx

08-19-2011, 12:02 PM

Yep, it's been done by many a company before.
They wait a couple of days to figure out if we'll all just forget about it by then.

If people are still mad enough, they make a half-assed non-apology that really says the customer is at fault, and accepts no blame or responsibility.

Basically nothing changes and they continue to lie in future releases since it works.

Push steam for refunds as hard as you can, because Ubisoft doesn't care - and never trust anything from these thieves again.

jokomul

08-19-2011, 01:33 PM

For me it's the principle.

I refuse to let a huge company like Ubisoft walk all over me. I'm an honest, paying customer and deserve to be treated as such.

If a man at a convenience store sold you a product and then you realized that product was not what he said it was, would you just continue on your way? I would go back to that store and demand a refund. Which is exactly what I'm doing here. The fact that I am being offered no compensation for this mess is extremely disrespectful to me and I intend to get my money back.

jh1523

08-19-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

You can play offline - as long as you sign in and then disconnect.

That is not offline. Offline is when you can play when there is no internet available. Not even for "signing in".

shawnchi

08-19-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by jh1523:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

You can play offline - as long as you sign in and then disconnect.

That is not offline. Offline is when you can play when there is no internet available. Not even for "signing in". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This.

Why is it that I am able to play Half Life 2 or Bioshock on the plane, but can't with From Dust? Because of this idiotic DRM crap. Okay, so you want to prevent pirates, BUT THEY ARE THERE ANYWAY. Obviously your horrible DRM is NOT working. So stop the bullcrap and just let us play the ******* game.

Caziban

08-19-2011, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Caziban:

In either case, if anyone can confirm this: (A second lie from Ubisoft will make me never buy a product from them again.) Some users are starting to claim that you need an Internet connection THROUGHOUT the ENTIRETY of playing. Some user claimed that he was given a "Internet connection lost - Please wait to reconnect." message while he was playing the game!!!

Is this true? If it is, adios Ubi.

I can only say what is said to me, and what was tested - you only need to sign in once, after that you can play offline.

The it has been tested, by playing it and pulling the network cable out - and the game continued.

Some people appear to be posting otherwise - so something is very strange here.

I would like others to try it, since you may belive them more than myself.

re the removal of the original post - since the information was confusing - I have made a new post, with the original content in it - so people are able to see.

I did that since it would be unfair to the person who posted the info in the first place, to edit their post.

Nothing is being 'hidden' or covered up - but if people want a person to shout at - then it may as well be me - since I am here.

As too the statement - I have no word on any so far - it may be a case of waiting and seeing now the information posted is clearer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate response from SOMEONE who's apart of the company. I understand that this isn't *your* fault, nor can you do ANYTHING about it, but it's glad to troubleshoot with someone who has some knowledge about the game. It is a shame that you have to be the scapegoat of all this. Of course, I bet we all want to point our fingers at the big corporation. Another user posted a video about the in-game disconnect, and was greeted with this message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Y2c&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkL-w1lDY2c&feature=youtu.be)

pisto791979

08-19-2011, 05:27 PM

Now we know what they did during the month that pc version was delayed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXqPw86P8_g

Stikmanlock

08-20-2011, 09:19 AM

I just want to say, that although it's really annoying that the original post said that the internet would only be needed once, I think I can understand what has happened.

I believe that when the post was being made, the poster asked what the DRM situation would be. The game makers probably said 'oh, to play it, they only need to do it once and then they can play offline'
meaning log in, go offline and play, repeat this process everytime you play it

It's been interpreted as 'Log in once and NEVER log in again' which is pretty much an understandable mistake to make.

(Alternatively, the type of DRM could have changed within that time or something, from 'one-time only' to what it is now. However, if that was so then I think the post would have been changed.)

Whatever happened, I think there should have been an additional post made well before the game was released to clarify the clarification. That obviously hasn't happened. I think a patch removing the DRM would be good, but it's unlikely to made.

Anyway, just to quote what Mr_Shade wrote: 'I can only say what is said to me, and what was tested'
If the forum managers have been misinformed then it is not their fault, it's Ubisoft's. Yes they may be official Ubisoft employees, or whatever, themselves but they can't help what they're told.
They could have been told that this game came out with no DRM and everyone who bought it got a free puppy, so that would have been posted here. When you got the came out, sans puppy, you can get annoyed with ubisoft but not the forum managers. I highly doubt that the managers on this forum are deliberatly lying. Ubisoft have probably just misinformed them or it was an unintentional mistake. I doubt there's any kind of conspiracy going on.

Michlo

08-21-2011, 10:53 AM

Michlo

08-21-2011, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by diamond-mx:
The original post was quite clearly worded, and I think any claims that it was 'misunderstood' is a blatant lie.

It said 'one-time activation'
The game clearly needs to be activated every time it is run.

Your claims that it should have been considered unofficial are disinguous - it was widely accepted as a fact, which many people based their purchasing decisions on, that it could be run offline after a single activation. Given this was supposed to be the post 'clarifying' people's worries, it should be considered more official than any other source.

This was either genuinely unbelievably bad wording, or intentional misinformation.
It's that old "malice or incompetence" thing.

Ubisoft owes their (now ex-)customers an open letter apology and an offer of a refund to every customer.

Enough weaseling.

Also, well said.

sting_0109

08-21-2011, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by ChrisIhao:
Ok, while I strongly agree that the DRM, FPS cap and unskippable cut-scenes are all annoyances, the level of harsh communication on these forums are frankly beginning to frighten me. I mean, we paid only 15 euros or dollars and should be able to keep on living a normal life?

I totally understand the concept of frustration, but from reading some of the headings and posts here it would seem like you have lost your houses, cars or dogs in a fire. Its not THAT bad. No need for asking someone to die or whatever, like observable here on these forums. Thats what 8 year olds tend to do.

Its also very obvious that aggression is contagious and that you guys rile each other up to a ridiculous temperament level. I guess the last drop was when several people here started giving Mr_Shade the "good intended" advice to get out of the forums. Now, in what way is THAT supposed to help? I am VERY glad none of the more angry occupants of these forums these days are peace negotiators.

Ok, chill out guys and lets hope Ubisoft get their house in order.

Chris, I am normally a polite person. However, when someone treats me like a ****ing idiot over and over again, I cease to be polite as even the most tranquil budhist philosopher would, I suspect. I have put up with Ubisofts bull**** since the release of AC2 and this time they misled me about the release date AND the DRM. And now they are even lying about the fact that they lied, with Mr-Shade saying the initial post about the DRM was "unoficial" or words to that effect. Go and look at the Steam Store page for "From Dust". The warning about the required internet connection is difficult to spot being in dark grey text at the bottom of the page and not listed in the system requirements where it should be. What's the reason for the initial misleading post and the hard-to-spot internet connection warning? Ubisoft know how unpopular their DRM has been in the past; they know that it has provoked massive complaints, negative press and even DDOS attacks on their servers. All the evidence seems to me like a deliberate attempt to mask their intentions when they knew all-along what they were going to do. Quite frankly, as a paying customer, I feel abused and I don't mind saying it ****es me off.

There is also no indication of why the PC release was so delayed at the last moment, it is so shoddy. They deserve all the harsh language they get, and then some, not just for this ONE release, but for EVERYTHING crappy they have done to us, their customers, for the last two years. And as for hoping they get their "house in order", evidence suggests this is not going to happen any time soon.

Also, I disagree that the AC series has seen "good" ports. The first one was decent, as was the second, minus the crappy DRM, but Brotherhood?? Dude, that games skips and stutters all over the place, and whilst some tricks helped it get a lot smoother and enable me to finish the game, I could never completely stop the skipping. Also both AC2 and ACB are widely reported to not be so smooth using mouse control, only using an XBox controller can you get them to play smooth, and this issue has never been corrected with a patch. This is evidence that not too much effort was expended getting the PC versions working well. And then, they outright REFUSE refunds??? Never have I had the misfortune of every dealing with such moral bankruptcy.

NO, I'm sick of the way Ubisoft treats us, it is the last time I believe anything they say. It's a shame because they do have some good game ideas but I'll be damned if I buy another Ubi game EVER on ANY PLATFORM. I've had enough of them. If there were any justice in the world, they would be hit with so many lawsuits and ordered to pay so many fines that they were forced to declare bankruptcy. It's not about the fact that I paid £12 (UK Sterling) it's about the fact that they have ripped off a customer base of millions of people to the tune of millions of dollars. Selling something under false pretenses is as good as theft, and if not a lawful crime, it is certainly a moral crime. But the worst thing is that it is not the first time they have done it, and us fools keep eating it up.

If you really believe that "chilling out" is right in the face of such continual abuse, you are truely foolhardy; sometimes you have to stand up and fight, and for me, this is one of those times.

ChrisIhao

08-21-2011, 02:00 PM

@sting_0109: your obviously free to mean whatever you want, but how my thoughts are foolhardy I dont get (foolishly adventurous and bold).

Its quite simple in my eyes. Either you buy Ubisoft games or you dont. As I love some of the Ubi games I'm in the former category. Its your choice. Nobody forcing you. Whats different this time is that certain promises were made, but honestly I dont see why you preordered as you are so wary of Ubi (tf2 hat greed?). Frankly I dont care all that much about the drm considering I'm basically online 24/7, although I would prefer it to be different.

Anyhow, choose with your wallets, although I suspect many of you will come crawling back for the next great Ubi game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Campuschris

08-21-2011, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by ChrisIhao:
@sting_0109: your obviously free to mean whatever you want, but how my thoughts are foolhardy I dont get (foolishly adventurous and bold).

Its quite simple in my eyes. Either you buy Ubisoft games or you dont. As I love some of the Ubi games I'm in the former category. Its your choice. Nobody forcing you. Whats different this time is that certain promises were made, but honestly I dont see why you preordered as you are so wary of Ubi (tf2 hat greed?). Frankly I dont care all that much about the drm considering I'm basically online 24/7, although I would prefer it to be different.

Anyhow, choose with your wallets, although I suspect many of you will come crawling back for the next great Ubi game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Many of us are upset because were WEREN'T wary of Ubisoft. We went and pre-ordered a gorgeous looking game from what we assumed to be a reputable and trustworthy company that had states that internet access would not be required to play the game (1 time activation, and that is it). What we instead got was a shady company scamming folks into dropping $15 and then, the day after (to make sure refunds were no longer an option from Steam), the announcement was removed and then replaced with a "You actually do need internet access to play this game". So here we are.

While it is the principle, for some of us broke college students $15 is a big enough deal that it is worth raising a little hell in hopes of getting refunded, since some of us can't even play the game due to lack of internet. I have no intention of sitting at Wendy's all day to user their internet to play MY SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

I really regret not being a pirate sometimes. Ubisoft apparently is a very pro-piracy company, as they punish anyone who purchases their games with heavy restrictions, while the pirates get no restrictions and no problems.

sting_0109

08-21-2011, 04:13 PM

Hi Chris,

I do love some Ubi games; I've been especially fond of the AC series, I love the way the story is intertwined with real history. But I can guarantee you that I won't be buying Revelations, either on 360, which I also own, or PC.

I've always believed that moral crimes are as bad as legal crimes. As some other guy put it, when you tell your customers one thing and then change it AFTER you've had a load of pre-orders, it makes you a fraud. A con-artist. And refusal to give a refund only makes it worse. If a guy in the street ripped you off like that, you would want to see justice done, surely.

Admittedly, I may have been a little naive for "falling for" Ubi's trick just as the "mark" in the street is guilty of naivity/stupidity, but that doesn't make Ubi innocent, just as the street con-artist is not innocent. Also, I didn't expect even Ubi to sink to this level. Big companies like them should be trustworthy. In fact, keeping your word is part of the code of chivalry (just getting a little "Arthurian"!)

Anyhow, I guess you and me just regard the seriousness of Ubi's actions differently. I will say that my principled nature has led me into trouble a number of times but I still think I'm right, naturally! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Also, using yourself as an argument; "I don't care because I have a 24/7 internet connection" is no argument at all. It is a bigger issue than just you, it is wrong to mislead so many paying customers even in the eyes of someone unaffected by the issue. Besides, I doubt your ISP NEVER has outages, and even if this is the case, the next time Ubi does something like this it might well hurt you more. Come, stand with your fellow brethren against the injustices committed by the mighty! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Peace.

ChrisIhao

08-22-2011, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by sting_0109:
Also, using yourself as an argument; "I don't care because I have a 24/7 internet connection" is no argument at all. It is a bigger issue than just you, it is wrong to mislead so many paying customers even in the eyes of someone unaffected by the issue. Besides, I doubt your ISP NEVER has outages, and even if this is the case, the next time Ubi does something like this it might well hurt you more. Come, stand with your fellow brethren against the injustices committed by the mighty! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Peace.

I did not use the 24/7 statement as an argument really, although I can see how it may be interpreted that way. I merely wanted to state the fact that I have not been all that bothered by the drm system (and yes, in Norway isp's are generally more stable than in for instance the US), even if I also agree that this is just lame considering games get pirated anyways. They tried running no drm on Prince of Persia and somehow used the piracy of that game as an excuse for the latest "connection at all times" drm's on later games.

I am not against you guys, just to be clear on that. On the other hand I would say I stand with you on most of your opinions regarding this latest breach of trust. Its just that I've lived long enough to know that there is a fine balance between being taken seriously and ignored if the complaints get too verbal and harsh. Just think of it, if you got hundreds of letters in the mail stating that you are a bleeding idiot and cant do anything right, would you read them? Personally I would only read those letters that go straight to the point without threatening me but rather keep a civil tone of voice in spite of being critical to my actions.

Peace to you and the others here as well sting.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 10:34 AM

Hi guys

Can I first say my apologies that I’ve only just come into this thread (and forum in the last 10+ days) I have been away on holiday which in hindsight was not a great time to be away

I’m still catching up but thought I should stick my head around the corner of this thread so to speak given some of the points raised.

It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems, this was in no way intended to ‘hide’ the issue or my previous statement as some have suggested. No one here is naïve enough to think people would not have a record of my post.

That said, I cannot apologise enough for any problems that post may have caused anyone, the information I gave was as we understood correct at the time. That situation is being looked into to prevent such confusion ever happening again.

With all that said if anyone is having on-going issues with the game for this or any other reason please as already advised contact the support team who will help you to resolve any game related issues.

Their direct weblink is in my signature.

geloum

08-22-2011, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
Hi guys

Can I first say my apologies that I’ve only just come into this thread (and forum in the last 10+ days) I have been away on holiday which in hindsight was not a great time to be away

I’m still catching up but thought I should stick my head around the corner of this thread so to speak given some of the points raised.

It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems, this was in no way intended to ‘hide’ the issue or my previous statement as some have suggested. No one here is naïve enough to think people would not have a record of my post.

That said, I cannot apologise enough for any problems that post may have caused anyone, the information I gave was as we understood correct at the time. That situation is being looked into to prevent such confusion ever happening again.

With all that said if anyone is having on-going issues with the game for this or any other reason please as already advised contact the support team who will help you to resolve any game related issues.

Their direct weblink is in my signature.

Seriously, the DRM is a massive problem, but the controls are a BIGGER problem. ASK DEVS TO FIX THE DAMN GAME

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by geloum:
Seriously, the DRM is a massive problem, but the controls are a BIGGER problem. ASK DEVS TO FIX THE DAMN GAME

Please be aware that posting in all caps is viewed as shouting, I know everyone’s frustrated but we'll all get a lot further if we keep cool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Re the issues you mention - there are a few things you can do to help, in no particular order....

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Post in the feedback threads providing as much clear concise information on the issue you're having as possible, where available supporting screen shot links, information on how to recreate any bugs etc

Contact support - this is essential, we do compile the information provided in the feedback thread, both opinion and technical issues. However support are better placed to collate the technical information than we are, they aim to not only help you guys but also collect information on the issues experienced, by who, how many players, and all kinds of other specific information which can explain what the issue is and why it occurs. This is all then used to calculate how many are affected, and what if anything can be done. This whole process is a lot more effective not to mention accurate if everyone affected takes the time to file a ticket and report the issues they’re having.[/list]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

jokomul

08-22-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
Hi guys

Can I first say my apologies that I’ve only just come into this thread (and forum in the last 10+ days) I have been away on holiday which in hindsight was not a great time to be away

I’m still catching up but thought I should stick my head around the corner of this thread so to speak given some of the points raised.

It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems, this was in no way intended to ‘hide’ the issue or my previous statement as some have suggested. No one here is naïve enough to think people would not have a record of my post.

That said, I cannot apologise enough for any problems that post may have caused anyone, the information I gave was as we understood correct at the time. That situation is being looked into to prevent such confusion ever happening again.

With all that said if anyone is having on-going issues with the game for this or any other reason please as already advised contact the support team who will help you to resolve any game related issues.

Their direct weblink is in my signature.

Do you happen to know anything about refund availability? The game is basically useless to me with its current DRM and I've been trying to get a refund. When talking with Ubisoft on the phone, I was told that they can't do anything for me and that I should go to Steam, but Steam has been denying me.

Daroth_343

08-22-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
That said, I cannot apologise enough for any problems that post may have caused anyone, the information I gave was as we understood correct at the time. That situation is being looked into to prevent such confusion ever happening again.
If I remember correctly you mentioned earlier you weren't made aware of the changes made to the DRM for Driver (with Ubisoft initially reverting to the always-online DRM) and only heard about the change when we did. I assume for From Dust, you then had to go and ask whoever is responsible for the DRM choices specifically what DRM it would be using, after which something went wrong in communicating this information to the community. I think that's already a problem when however decided on the DRM change didn't think it was necessary to let the people working with the community know about it.

What I think is really awful about the whole situation is that people took your word over that of the retailer (for example Steam) and ended up buying the product thinking they would be able to play it offline. These people are now finding it difficult to get a refund because Steam themselves didn't actually misrepresent the product, it's just that their explanation was vague enough to basically still allow for the possibility for the game to be online-only.

That said, Ubisoft could very easily solve the problem. In light of how fast the game's DRM was circumvented and later on cracked and seeing the mess it causes for legitimate customers, I can only hope they decide to patch the game and remove the DRM. It solves the problem for those that wanted to play the game offline, it solves the problem for Steam which are no doubt not happy about this situation either and it solves the problem for Ubisoft in the sense that they no longer need to devote technical support for the refund request or OSP connection problems and they may actually be featured on gaming websites in a more positive light. Sometimes less (DRM) is more...

sting_0109

08-22-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
...It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems...

I'm sorry, but that isn't going to wash. If you, or should I say your boss, didn't intend hiding anything a new post could have been made in the same thread and leaving the initial one intact. Or an edit could have been made still leaving the original information there. I'm not blaming you for posting the information you were given at the time, but it should not have been removed entirely, it just looks like your company is trying to cover something up.

Personally, my internet connection is stable most of the time but I did have an outage over the weeked which prevented me from playing and it surprised me because I didn't expect it. But the DRM itself is not the issue; people don't like being misled/lied to, especially when the lie leads them to spend money that they may not have spent otherwise, regardless of the low price of the software. A refund refusal just further angers them.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by jokomul:
Do you happen to know anything about refund availability? The game is basically useless to me with its current DRM and I've been trying to get a refund. When talking with Ubisoft on the phone, I was told that they can't do anything for me and that I should go to Steam, but Steam has been denying me.

Sorry I'm afraid I don't. I can only tell you that any refund request would need to go to the retailer which it would appear support have already advised you.

@Daroth - I've literally only just got back today and as you can imagine a lot to catch up on. I'm not aware of any successful crack on the game, but the feedback and suggestion you raise is one worth posting in the sticky feedback thread

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by ChrisIhao:
@sting_0109: your obviously free to mean whatever you want, but how my thoughts are foolhardy I dont get (foolishly adventurous and bold).

Its quite simple in my eyes. Either you buy Ubisoft games or you dont. As I love some of the Ubi games I'm in the former category. Its your choice. Nobody forcing you. Whats different this time is that certain promises were made, but honestly I dont see why you preordered as you are so wary of Ubi (tf2 hat greed?). Frankly I dont care all that much about the drm considering I'm basically online 24/7, although I would prefer it to be different.

Anyhow, choose with your wallets, although I suspect many of you will come crawling back for the next great Ubi game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sorry mate but gues what. I bought AC II and it was BAAAAAD. I payed for stupid game and I could not play it. Gues what. I sold it with my account. I was glad that I registered the game on new account. Because I could just sell it cheap to some guy that hope to play it.

I did bought games from Ubi before but it was first time that the game was unplayable.

I was interested about From Dust from the beginning. First i decided not to buy it but then Ubisoft told us that there will be no Internet connection needed whole stupid f**** time. And what ? I bought the dam game and they lied to me.

So yeah. I created article one one portal (journalist - not English so I didn't linked it) where I prize the game for whole idea. Then I bash PC version for worst controls ever.
Then I bashed whole PC version again for DRM and warn people that they can have problems with playing it AND it's pointless to play it if you are not 24/7 online.
After that there was loot of comments from people that bought PC version and they want their money back.

Not only because PC port is crap but because Ubisoft lied and literally steal their money this way. Some of them claim that they send complains to government agency of customers rights. And that's the biggest problem - Ubisoft lied to rise sells. Lied to their customers. And they deserve all that sh**storm that is coming.

Come back to "another great Ubisoft games" ? Sorry but no. I bought some of them and last 2 games I bought was unplayable rip-offs. So it was last thing I bought from Ubi and I will bash this company every time I will get hand on their game with that stupid DRM. I will honestly try and review the game but I will warn people that it will cause problems and it will be unplayable.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by sting_0109:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
...It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems...

I'm sorry, but that isn't going to wash. If you, or should I say your boss, didn't intend hiding anything a new post could have been made in the same thread and leaving the initial one intact. Or an edit could have been made still leaving the original information there. I'm not blaming you for posting the information you were given at the time, but it should not have been removed entirely, it just looks like your company is trying to cover something up.

Personally, my internet connection is stable most of the time but I did have an outage over the weeked which prevented me from playing and it surprised me because I didn't expect it. But the DRM itself is not the issue; people don't like being misled/lied to, especially when the lie leads them to spend money that they may not have spent otherwise, regardless of the low price of the software. A refund refusal just further angers them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand what you’re saying, but forums are notorious for people miss-reading, or people skipping parts out, that’s no disrespect to anyone here but believe me when I say in the past we’ve updated threads and people still don’t see the new information.

With that being the case any info which is no longer valid for no matter what reason is best removed so there is no room for confusion, that’s either done by a post edit or removal and repost. Why was it done the later on this occasion? I can’t speak for those who did it, but speaking personally, if it were my post I was changing I would simply edit it, but if it were someone else’s I would remove and repost…. May seem silly but I don’t like altering another forum managers post entirely and perhaps that’s why a removal and repost was done over and above an entire edit. Either way it was never the intention to hide anything, although as I say I can understand why it might appear that way to some.

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jokomul:
Do you happen to know anything about refund availability? The game is basically useless to me with its current DRM and I've been trying to get a refund. When talking with Ubisoft on the phone, I was told that they can't do anything for me and that I should go to Steam, but Steam has been denying me.

Sorry I'm afraid I don't. I can only tell you that any refund request would need to go to the retailer which it would appear support have already advised you.

@Daroth - I've literally only just got back today and as you can imagine a lot to catch up on. I'm not aware of any successful crack on the game, but the feedback and suggestion you raise is one worth posting in the sticky feedback thread </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's against the rules but I can prove that there is crack for every Ubisoft game (including From Dust) that use this DRM.

It's sad when company is punishing their customers while they should punish pirates. But that the last time. I bought the game and they treat me like a thief. So it was last time.

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sting_0109:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
...It’s my understanding the thread I made about the games DRM was removed because it was factually incorrect and it remaining in place would cause more confusion and problems...

I'm sorry, but that isn't going to wash. If you, or should I say your boss, didn't intend hiding anything a new post could have been made in the same thread and leaving the initial one intact. Or an edit could have been made still leaving the original information there. I'm not blaming you for posting the information you were given at the time, but it should not have been removed entirely, it just looks like your company is trying to cover something up.

Personally, my internet connection is stable most of the time but I did have an outage over the weeked which prevented me from playing and it surprised me because I didn't expect it. But the DRM itself is not the issue; people don't like being misled/lied to, especially when the lie leads them to spend money that they may not have spent otherwise, regardless of the low price of the software. A refund refusal just further angers them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand what you’re saying, but forums are notorious for people miss-reading, or people skipping parts out, that’s no disrespect to anyone here but believe me when I say in the past we’ve updated threads and people still don’t see the new information.

With that being the case any info which is no longer valid for no matter what reason is best removed so there is no room for confusion, that’s either done by a post edit or removal and repost. Why was it done the later on this occasion? I can’t speak for those who did it, but speaking personally, if it were my post I was changing I would simply edit it, but if it were someone else’s I would remove and repost…. May seem silly but I don’t like altering another forum managers post entirely and perhaps that’s why a removal and repost was done over and above an entire edit. Either way it was never the intention to hide anything, although as I say I can understand why it might appear that way to some. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry but did I missed something ? You guys post this message 1 august. Here is a screenshoot:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7759/drmr.jpg

It was there for 17 days. I was thinking that this is accurate info. More to that - I don't monitor ubisoft 24/7 so when I see info for a long time - i think it's true.
Then we have 18 august. You post new info that game will have your DRM.

BUT GAME WAS RELEASED 17 AGUST.

I bought the game 20 august if I remember not knowing about the change. As I said. After release date I didn't check for updates. Why ? Game is out. It's not like you can rebuild it right ? Gues you can... But how this happened ? You did manage to REBUILD the game and add DRM and then change every copy you were selling ? Magic ?

NO. First you lied to us to rise your sales and now you covering this up. More to that. It was YOU WHO POST ORIGINAL MESSAGE. So Ubisoft cheat me and loot of other PC gamers. For me is like you just steal my money and you refuse to return it.

I bought the game on steam. I played it like a half an hour or less. I saved once and then game crashed. Then I could not even run it. Can't connect... can't connect... What I did ? Steam have info about how much I played etc. I send them and support info demanding refund for unplayable game, lies etc.
"We are investigating...". And loot of people under my article about the game (yeah, It was me who review it) said the same. You cheat, lied and steal this way their money.

Good job. Trust me. This topic will rise under EVERY Ubisoft game on this and other portals. You can cover whatever the hell you want.

PS: I will use this conversations too. I have screen shoots and other materials I gather here. Good stuff for next article. This time - about Ubisoft itself and your last 2 years of customer service. Especially PC customers. Also because of "moderation" that delete everything that is inconvenient I save every message and print every page I find interesting to PDF. Really good stuff.

sting_0109

08-22-2011, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
...if it were my post I was changing I would simply edit it, but if it were someone else’s I would remove and repost…

Well okay, I'm just going to have to accept this explanation. Even so, if the original information had been left intact but skipped over by the majority of the people here, you at least have a more effective argument to fall back on - "The information is there, if you missed it, that's your reponsbility". As it is, your defense is rather weak. Mr_Shade should have left your orignal post there.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 11:48 AM

@dariuszp - I didnt lie, and the people I work with didn’t either... a mistake was made, of that there is no doubt but we didnt lie.

That said hopefully this statement posted in the last hour will address the issue for everyone....

We recognize that one of our posts in the From Dust forum regarding the need for authentication in the game was not clear. We sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.

Our tech teams are working on a patch that should release in approximately two weeks that will eliminate the need for any online authentication.

This development time is required as we are working to ensure that those who have already started the game, and who’s progress is currently saved on our servers, will receive and save their game information locally. Once the patch is ready, players who already have the game will automatically receive the update on their next login and subsequent game sessions will be 100% offline.

Source (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751064939/m/1511052349)

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 11:53 AM

And what. You will fix the game but you will not fix whole situation. I trusted Ubisoft and you lied to us.

My support ticket stand and I still want to return the game. You lied to us. And I will not support it.

I will not wait 2 weeks to play the game that I payed for. I hope that support will help me this time. If not - well, that's more to the new article.

EDIT//
And it was NOT a mistake. Mistake would be if that information would be put for a few hours or a day. It was posted 1 august. 18 august you post new information. Day after release.

2 days later I bought the game not knowing that it changed. It was obvious lie to rise the sell. You know that PC players will hold when they learn about DRM.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by dariuszp:
And what. You will fix the game but you will not fix whole situation. I trusted Ubisoft and you lied to us.

My support ticket stand and I still want to return the game. You lied to us. And I will not support it.

I will not wait 2 weeks to play the game that I payed for. I hope that support will help me this time. If not - well, that's more to the new article.

EDIT//
And it was NOT a mistake. Mistake would be if that information would be put for a few hours or a day. It was posted 1 august. 18 august you post new information. Day after release.

2 days later I bought the game not knowing that it changed. It was obvious lie to rise the sell. You know that PC players will hold when they learn about DRM.

As I say, no one has lied. I completely understand the frustration the situation has caused many players but it was nothing more than a matter of confusion/ misunderstanding.

With that said, Ubisoft support cannot help you with a refund, if this is the route you wish to take you will need to contact the retailer from whom you bought the game.

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 12:09 PM

Retailer is Steam. And Steam send people to Ubisoft. Ubisoft send people to Steam. Convenient right ?

Problem is that game was activated on Ubiplay ( I was thinking that it will be one-time activation ). So after they return me the money and take the game back - they cannot sell the key again because it was already put on Ubisoft account.

So first Ubisoft must take actions and remove any data about registered games (saves etc). Then contact Steam support about it and THEN i could try to get refund from Steam directly.

Can you help with that ? Or Ubi and Steam support will still play this game sending people from one place to another.

I can understand why you call it "mistake". That's your story. For every story there are 3 versions. Mine, yours and the truth. Mine version is that info was on forum from 1 to 18 august. So it was even in the day of the release (not sure about it but forum posts dates say it). So it was far too long to be a simple "mistake".

Thank you for your help. I hope you at least explain why Steam and Ubisoft can't talk this out. I want my money back for all lies and problems. I will gladly return the game to you.

sting_0109

08-22-2011, 12:11 PM

@ms_kleaneasy:

It is good that the DRM is being scaled back on "From Dust". My advice to Ubisoft, if you would be kind enough to pass the information on, would be to leave the overly aggressive DRM out of future releases! Not just say you will and then go back on your word, but actually leave it out.

The fact is that your permanent internet connection requirement system was cracked not that long after development. I know this is the case and I could have downloaded cracked versions of your games. I haven't done because I hate piracy as much as you guys but I feel like I get punished for doing the right thing sometimes.

As for me, I will stick by what I have said. I will not be purchasing revelations on 360. I *might* be persuaded to purchase it on PC *if* and only if I become convinced I'm not being deceived at all and that the port is actually a decent one. I won't pre-order, I'll wait until I know for certain that what I'm getting is an honest product intended for my enjoyment without complications.

For me, Ubisoft has a very long way to go to prove they're trustworthy again.

jokomul

08-22-2011, 12:13 PM

I am also not getting anywhere with Steam as far as refunds go. My ticket hasn't even been answered since Thursday.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 12:32 PM

@dariuszp - I don't know how the situation works in regard to a digital purchase/ refund and assigned keys. If steam say the key needs to be free'd up so to speak I would think this is something they need to arrange with Ubisoft.

If they refuse (although it’s not entirely clear from your post if they have actually done that) you can try contacting Ubisoft support about removing the key assignment from your account but I'm not sure they can help. Legally when you buy a product of any sort you enter into a contract between buyer and retailer so in this case its Steam who you have to contact and who have to address your complaint.

@sting_0109 - taken on board

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
@dariuszp - I don't know how the situation works in regard to a digital purchase/ refund and assigned keys. If steam say the key needs to be free'd up so to speak I would think this is something they need to arrange with Ubisoft.

If they refuse (although it’s not entirely clear from your post if they have actually done that) you can try contacting Ubisoft support about removing the key assignment from your account but I'm not sure they can help. Legally when you buy a product of any sort you enter into a contract between buyer and retailer so in this case its Steam who you have to contact and who have to address your complaint.

@sting_0109 - taken on board

True. But I didn't get response from Steam yet. I send complain to both Steam and Ubisoft support. Ubi put me on hold (We are investigating...) and Steam didn't respond.

But I receive loot of feedback from commentators under article. Also there are info from other gaming sites (you can find it under any ubisoft/from dust related article or topic). There are informations, screen shoots etc. They say same thing.

Ubisoft ignore them or send them to Steam. Steam send them to Ubisoft or don't respond at all (probably because too many complains - they will get response later - Steam have good support). That's it. That's why I try in both places.

Not only because I feel cheated and I have being lied to but also I want provide feedback about what to do in next article about this whole situation. And I want to send information I got from You and Steam to any known by me gaming site or forum. Right now it's not looking too god.

But it will probably work. People could get tires and stop trying to get 15 euro. So money gained (from my perspective - cheated) and PR probably hope that we will forget about whole situation.

I just want to point that "rage" about Dragon Age II from Bioware is still out there and that game was released long ago. How do you think this situation with DRM and now "From Dust" will hold ? It's 2 years already and loot of people are mad. And laying is not good thing to change that.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 12:59 PM

If Ubisoft support have told you or others to contact Steam this isnt them ignoring you, as I've explained any refund as you're trying to gain must come from the retailer so UBi support are simply sending you where you legally need to go.

I'm sorry that Steam are slower to respond than you would like, but as I don't work for them I have no way of knowing why or changing that.

As I've said no one lied, the DRM is being removed so your issue is being addressed. Any refund request must go to the retailer which in your case was not Ubisoft so unfortunately there is nothing more I can do to help.

If you've any other issues with the game in terms of playing it please do post in the feedback threads and contact support for assistance but with specific regards to a refund or the DRM there is nothing more I can do.

ars-stigmata

08-22-2011, 01:14 PM

jokomul

08-22-2011, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by ars-stigmata:
What is Ubisoft going to do to compel Valve to refund us?

This. Ubisoft screwed up, not Steam. They need to take responsibility and communicate with Valve/Steam if they themselves can't give out refunds.

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
If Ubisoft support have told you or others to contact Steam this isnt them ignoring you, as I've explained any refund as you're trying to gain must come from the retailer so UBi support are simply sending you where you legally need to go.

I'm sorry that Steam are slower to respond than you would like, but as I don't work for them I have no way of knowing why or changing that.

As I've said no one lied, the DRM is being removed so your issue is being addressed. Any refund request must go to the retailer which in your case was not Ubisoft so unfortunately there is nothing more I can do to help.

If you've any other issues with the game in terms of playing it please do post in the feedback threads and contact support for assistance but with specific regards to a refund or the DRM there is nothing more I can do.

Problems is that Ubisoft need to talk to Steam or Steam need to talk ubisoft. Becaues you playing ping-pong with us.
I really don't care who I must to adress. Game is registered under Ubisoft account so it's obvious that Ubi must do something about it. And Steam must have some information from Ubisoft to allow refunds.

More to that. Whole problem start because Ubisoft lies about DRM. Call it as you like. It was lie. 2 weeks of lies that ends when you receive peoples money.

kjolnir

08-22-2011, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
@dariuszp - I didnt lie, and the people I work with didn’t either... a mistake was made, of that there is no doubt but we didnt lie.

That said hopefully this statement posted in the last hour will address the issue for everyone....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We recognize that one of our posts in the From Dust forum regarding the need for authentication in the game was not clear. We sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.

Our tech teams are working on a patch that should release in approximately two weeks that will eliminate the need for any online authentication.

This development time is required as we are working to ensure that those who have already started the game, and who’s progress is currently saved on our servers, will receive and save their game information locally. Once the patch is ready, players who already have the game will automatically receive the update on their next login and subsequent game sessions will be 100% offline.

Source (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751064939/m/1511052349) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"We recognize that one of our posts in the From Dust forum regarding the need for authentication in the game was not clear."

What a BS copout! The post was VERY clear - everyone in the world understood exactly what is said - ONE TIME ONLY activation. That means you're online one time, you activate it, you never have to be online again. This playing fast and loose with the english language is an affront to our intelligence.

No, the post was VERY clear. It was also very clearly misleading and incorrect, but to claim this brouhaha you've caused is a result of us misunderstanding what you really meant is an insult to our intelligence. The post was misleading, and the question isn't whether or not it was misleading, it's whether or not it rises to a level of criminality in your state/country. I believe in Texas it does.

We'll see what this patch does but for crying out loud, stop blaming US for YOUR screwup.

Stikmanlock

08-22-2011, 02:39 PM

diamond-mx

08-22-2011, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
... as I've explained any refund as you're trying to gain must come from the retailer so UBi support are simply sending you where you legally need to go.

Read this:
http://i.imgur.com/IAE65.jpg

Which is the response Valve are giving to *every* customer who asks for a refund.

Stop making excuses.

And go pay back the customers you conned out of their money instead of insulting them with further lies.

Valve didn't make this shody excuse for a game, Valve didn't tell the entire customer base that the game had one-time DRM, when in fact it was constant-online DRM, Valve is not at fault.

Ubisoft is at fault, now Ubisoft should own up to the wrongdoing and fix it.

The claims that it was a mistake, followed by a refusal to refund only further proves Ubisoft's intent to avoid further DRM boycotting by subterfuge.

I'll be directing friends and family strongly away from Ubisoft in future. You guys are a disgrace.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 03:16 PM

I’ll try to address everyone’s posts as best I can.

Re Australian retail law – I don’t live in Australia and will not pretend to know their retail laws so I can’t comment on that, sorry.

Re: Refunds – Assuming I understand everyone correctly the demands for refunds are because you ordered a game believing its DRM was one time only activation and on download found this not to be the case?

Ubisoft have clearly stated the DRM is being removed, the only reason this is not an immediate action is to ensure those already playing the game are not further penalised by losing any game saves etc.

No matter who is legally responsible within each country for a refund I think you may find it hard to argue a refund the basis of the DRM, while I agree the confusion has been a big frustration for anyone negatively affected (i.e. unable to play because of the online requirement) the issue has been acknowledged and is being rectified at the earliest opportunity without existing players suffering any further. In short the DRM will not require the player to be online once the patch has been released.

I am not trying to belittle the frustration for those affected, but I am somewhat confused why there is still anger over the inability to refund a game which will very soon not have the issue you want a refund for

All that said if the issue relates to something other than the DRM and you’ve not already please contact the support team with details of any game related issues, and as always feel free to post in the feedback threads here on the forums.

Voight-Kampff

08-22-2011, 03:17 PM

If UBI is indeed working on a patch that will remove the always online DRM and replace it with a one-time validation then I'll be happy with that. They've gotten ALOT of bad PR this last weak and I'm sure they can tell that that's a bad thing.

Hopefully this patch will address some of the other issues with the PC-port as well, but they are not as urgent as the DRM-bullocking.

I hope they FIX Settlers 7 as well while they're at it. One of the best strategy titles in recent memory dragged to the ground by rubbish DRM.

PS:
Yesterday i bought two audiobooks from Audible only to discover that they were completely DRM-ridden. None of my portable devices could play them properly (at all). After nearly two hours i managed to get them playing on my phone by doing ALOT of surgery. I won't be buying from audible again. If Chahi and BlueByte gets a different publisher the same goes for UBI if they don't get their act together.

Edit:
I would like to thank "ms-kleaneasy" for being clear and, well; human regarding this issue. It's frustrating to read all the "there has been some confusion"-post posted by the web-masters. If the DRM is getting sorted there really is no need to ventilate frustration onto the forum any longer. Let's just hope this patch doesn't get delayed..

diamond-mx

08-22-2011, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
All that said if the issue relates to something other than the DRM and you’ve not already please contact the support team with details of any game related issues, and as always feel free to post in the feedback threads here on the forums.

The real complaint is that customers feel lied to, and the statement released by Ubisoft is not reassuring in any way as Ubisoft claims it was a mere 'misunderstanding'.

There was noone outside Ubisoft who read the DRM clarification and understood it to mean what you claim it meant.

So whilst you may be solving (after several weeks of disappointment) the problem itself - customers still have no desire to be financially supporting this kind of dirty marketing tactic.
--
If anyone believed that it was an honest mistake - then there's only the problem that the game is a very poor port. That, you might be forgiven for. But the lies haven't stopped yet and that won't be forgiven.

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 03:41 PM

As I've already said, no one lied. There was a misunderstanding because what was said in the DRM post and what should have been said was clearly not the same thing. Internally we obviously need to establish where the confusion came from to prevent something like this happening again, but I don't think anyone’s suggesting you guys didn’t read it right, afterall if that were the case I don't imagine they would be changing the DRM.

ars-stigmata

08-22-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
I’ll try to address everyone’s posts as best I can.

Re Australian retail law – I don’t live in Australia and will not pretend to know their retail laws so I can’t comment on that, sorry.

Re: Refunds – Assuming I understand everyone correctly the demands for refunds are because you ordered a game believing its DRM was one time only activation and on download found this not to be the case?

Ubisoft have clearly stated the DRM is being removed, the only reason this is not an immediate action is to ensure those already playing the game are not further penalised by losing any game saves etc.

No matter who is legally responsible within each country for a refund I think you may find it hard to argue a refund the basis of the DRM, while I agree the confusion has been a big frustration for anyone negatively affected (i.e. unable to play because of the online requirement) the issue has been acknowledged and is being rectified at the earliest opportunity without existing players suffering any further. In short the DRM will not require the player to be online once the patch has been released.

I am not trying to belittle the frustration for those affected, but I am somewhat confused why there is still anger over the inability to refund a game which will very soon not have the issue you want a refund for

All that said if the issue relates to something other than the DRM and you’ve not already please contact the support team with details of any game related issues, and as always feel free to post in the feedback threads here on the forums.

I bought the game expecting to be able to play it, instead I am locked out by the DRM, unable to play until it's patched, and faced with a silent support stream. The product was provided in a condition not worthy of sale.

That's the basis on which I want my damn refund.

jokomul

08-22-2011, 03:57 PM

ms-kleaneasy

08-22-2011, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by jokomul:
You do keep saying this, but I'd like to point out that many people consider what happened to be a lie, even if it is an unintentional lie.

I don't believe many posters are suggesting Ubisoft lied on purpose, but they still consider it an unintentional lie because the post was not truthful. Not true = lie.

With respect an unintentional lie is not a lie its a mistake/ error, to lie you must knowingly misinform someone and that absolutely was not the case.

ars-stigmata

08-22-2011, 04:07 PM

Ugh. You made an elementary PR mistake which led to an unacceptable number of your customers feeling disenfranchised and abused, and you've done little to remedy that.

Worse, this mistake comes in the context of statements by Ubisoft to the effect that your notorious DRM is effective against piracy, even though From Dust was available and cracked on TPB within a day of release. This is compounded by the fact that the DRM appears to have been the primary cause of dissatisfaction, as in my case (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkL-w1lDY2c), since it seems I'm not going to be allowed to play the game until Ubisoft gets around to patching.

That should be a clearer rendering of the statement.

jokomul

08-22-2011, 04:09 PM

I know, I was just letting you know my theory on why everyone is still saying it was a lie.

Voight-Kampff

08-22-2011, 04:39 PM

Well, nobody's getting a refund. There is nothing to do about that now. Let's all just wait for the patch and see what happens. If all is well then great, if not let's start a new thread when that time comes. I have no problem waiting two weeks to play the game.

dariuszp

08-22-2011, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
As I've already said, no one lied. There was a misunderstanding because what was said in the DRM post and what should have been said was clearly not the same thing. Internally we obviously need to establish where the confusion came from to prevent something like this happening again, but I don't think anyone’s suggesting you guys didn’t read it right, afterall if that were the case I don't imagine they would be changing the DRM.

Let me make this clear. AGAIN. Here is your "misunderstanding". It was posted by YOU so you know what YOU wrote.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7759/drmr.jpg

From Dust PC will release with DRM requiring a one-time only online activation. After which you will be able to play the game offline.

It's clear to me and there is NO ROOM for misunderstanding this. It was just PR stuff to rise sales. We bought the game believing in this just to learn we have been lied to. Oh sorry. Not lied. We don't know how to read and we "misunderstand" things.

Refund is not only because of a patch. It's because we brought different game that you offered. And now you only telling us that we will fix it after 2 weeks. Well after 2 weeks I will play something different.

We ask for refund because you lied to us and we don't want to support this kind of behavior.

Stikmanlock

08-23-2011, 01:29 AM

All the 'the post is a lie!' (lol portal) comments are becoming rather irksome.

I've posted somewhere on this forum about what I think happened. Internally, someone said that you need to activate the game once and then you can go offline. Does that mean once ever, or once per game ? There's been confusion about that internally and it's been said to us that it's once ever.

Obviously, we've found out that this is incorrect. Now ubisoft are hurrying to make a patch for it. 2 weeks is acceptable, because would you want them to release a shoddy patch that deletes your savegames?

You can't really ask for a refund because a game has DRM if the DRM is going to get removed. You could possibly ask for a refund if they lied deliberately and said there is no DRM at all. But they didn't set out to decieve people on purpose (or at least as far as I can see).

If you just think about it, well.. logically prehaps, you can see where the confusion may have arose. (hint: it's not with us, it was internally in Ubisoft. So don't start getting angry saying that you are not confused because that is obviously not what I am saying).

So to sum up:
- They said one time only activation.
- This proved false.
- They are going to remove DRM

I cannot see a complaint now, other than on principle, which is unlikely to get a refund.

dariuszp

08-23-2011, 02:27 AM

Simple.
- They said one time only activation. One time is that I will activate the game ONE TIME. ONE. So your statement is false.
- Yes. This statement was proven false. You need constant Internet connection.
- I bought the game. I want to play it because it is mine. I can't. I want to return it.

I give a f*** what they will do in 2 weeks. In 2 weeks I will play something else.

- of course there is a matter of lying. I cannot support company that lied to me so I spend money on their product.
- Steam change requirements at the day of the release. It was not fun at all. Loot of people miss that. There was no info about the change on product page. So if you check it before release you bought something else you expect.

It's not only about DRM that make the game unplayable to me but it's also about the lie they sold us. It was a fraud in my personal opinion.

It's not like I really care about 15 euro but it's matter of honor and respect. So until Ubisoft will not allow me to return broken game (I don't even expect "sorry" for their lies), i will gladly bash company and their games under every article I will coma across. And I see them a loot because of my additional job.

ChrisIhao

08-23-2011, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by dariuszp:
Sorry mate but gues what. I bought AC II and it was BAAAAAD. I payed for stupid game and I could not play it. Gues what. I sold it with my account. I was glad that I registered the game on new account. Because I could just sell it cheap to some guy that hope to play it.

Well, sorry mate but guess what? Perhaps the problem is on your end then? I never had a single problem with AC2 and neither did several friends of mine with various configurations. There are no logical reason whatsoever that your setup should be "the correct one" and that the game itself is at fault.

Bah. Enough of this. Even in the recent official update thread you people manage to whine and whine. You think that you'll get a refund by writing angry comment after angry comment on a forum. Like stated a million times by now you have to write to the correct instances. You people have come up with many examples of "if this were a street vendor" or whatever. Well, the thruth is that when you for instance buy a TV, the vendor has the legal option to repair your broken TV if such a thing happens. This usually takes at least 2 weeks in my experience.

The worst part about the complaints now pouring in is that you stated that Ubi never shows up and seems to care, but when they finally do they are being shown a cold shoulder. I'm ashamed.

dariuszp

08-23-2011, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by ChrisIhao:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dariuszp:
Sorry mate but gues what. I bought AC II and it was BAAAAAD. I payed for stupid game and I could not play it. Gues what. I sold it with my account. I was glad that I registered the game on new account. Because I could just sell it cheap to some guy that hope to play it.

Well, sorry mate but guess what? Perhaps the problem is on your end then? I never had a single problem with AC2 and neither did several friends of mine with various configurations. There are no logical reason whatsoever that your setup should be "the correct one" and that the game itself is at fault.

Bah. Enough of this. Even in the recent official update thread you people manage to whine and whine. You think that you'll get a refund by writing angry comment after angry comment on a forum. Like stated a million times by now you have to write to the correct instances. You people have come up with many examples of "if this were a street vendor" or whatever. Well, the thruth is that when you for instance buy a TV, the vendor has the legal option to repair your broken TV if such a thing happens. This usually takes at least 2 weeks in my experience.

The worst part about the complaints now pouring in is that you stated that Ubi never shows up and seems to care, but when they finally do they are being shown a cold shoulder. I'm ashamed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you play it after release ? Because Ubisoft servers was overloaded and there was loot of DDOS attacks on them. You could not start the game or play it. So please take your comment and stick it you know where (under carpet) because you don't know what you are talking about. Problem == DRM in AC 2.

Your second statement - you can put it "under carpet" too. When I buy TV i ask someone to run it before I take it to make sure it is working. And if it is NOT working then there is a big label "NOT WORKING". If my TV will require constant Internet connection just to be sure that I didn't steal it. I require BIG F****** SIGN that inform me about it.

Ubi$oft told us about it AFTER release. When before it they told us something different. Obvious lie.

So i give a s*** about when Ubisoft will fix it. If I buy tv i expect to turn it on/off when I like. So if TV cause problems - I return it as broken. And they take it back.

I expect from Ubi the same.

PS: For your informations. "Angry posts" have more that meet the eye. "Angry posts" cause Dragon Age II sales to drop 1/10 copare to first part in 8 weeks after release. So in 8 week they sold 10% of Dragon Age I. And sales constantly drop.
After 8 weeks Bioware decide to drop the price and add Mass Effect 2 for free just to rise sales.
So "angry posts" on Metacritic, forums, here etc just like some "angry review" when I first talk about the game and how good it was just to talk about worst console port ever and DRM that cause problem and for some people make the game unplayable.
So "angry posts" will do their job.
I really don't care about the refund. Ubisoft can steal my money (sorry, not steal it. Cheated it. It was a fraud - but only for 15 euro). I don't care. But I be sure to do as much damage as I can. And people will not forget next time when Ubisoft will release some game.

ms-kleaneasy

08-23-2011, 06:05 AM

Ok now that’s enough!

Everyone is frustrated, and this I understand but there are ways and means to voice your upset without resorting to personal attacks.

@dariuszp – your posts are now trolling, this is against the rules. Now I strongly suggest you review the rules before you find yourself under warning or possible suspension.
To be clear I am not stopping you voicing your opinion, simply asking you do so in a way that is within the rules and not purposely disruptive to other discussions.

@ ALL – Let’s see this topic (and others like it) stay on topic please.

Any further instances of rule breach, insults or attacks on other members will result in warning or suspension, no exceptions!

If anyone wishes to discuss this further contact me in PT otherwise back on topic.

diamond-mx

08-23-2011, 06:40 AM

On topic: ms-kleaneasy, I want to know what Ubisoft are doing regarding the fact that Valve passes the buck to Ubisoft and Ubisoft passes the buck to Valve on the refund issue. Neither party is willing to accept responsibility or open dialogue as they both claim that the other party has to deal with it.

Both of you are making excuses and harming the consumer, and Ubisoft is more at fault than Valve, so tell us what Ubisoft are doing to resolve it so at least one of the two parties will stop claiming it's not their problem.

Edit - by the way, don't distract from the issue discussing whether you think a refund is valid at this point or not.

dariuszp

08-23-2011, 06:40 AM

No worry. I'm done here. I was just explaining ChrisIhao that he is mistaken.

I'm sorry if I went too far. It's not like I'm used to being cheated and lied to.

Have a nice day.

ParadiseDecayTM

08-23-2011, 06:58 AM

To be honest this whole mess could have been avoided.

1. If UBIsoft or Steam had valued their consumers and offered a refund to those who asked for it 5 days ago, without all the 'whos to blame' nonsense, then none of this bad press would be around today and 1 of the companies would have at least got some respect.

I would respect UBIsoft more for agreeing to a refund, in return they would have more chance of my buying from them in the future, but at the moment thats not looking likely.

Im all for Digital Distribution, but Im sticking to retail for now... there's none of this hassle or nonesense.

This has all grown out of porportion becuase no-one is willing to take the blame and Iv'e never seen so many news articles on this matter before.

ms-kleaneasy

08-23-2011, 07:22 AM

I understand from your point of view you all just want someone to sort it out, the problem with regards to the refund argument is that legally this has to come from the retailer.

That’s not anyone trying to be awkward or passing the buck; Ubisoft didn’t receive payment for the game and so cannot provide a refund of that payment. If anyone still wishes to pursue a refund, then that has to be taken to the retailer where you bought the game, beyond that I cannot offer any advice.

IF the retailer is sending you back to Ubisoft this may be because they’ve already explained why they are not legally obliged to provide a refund (i.e. the DRM issue is being resolved) and feel any further feedback from you the customer would be better placed here rather than the expectation Ubisoft can provide the refund because the retailer knows they cannot. That is of course only a guess, I don’t know for sure.

diamond-mx

08-23-2011, 07:58 AM

That sounds a lot like "No, we will continue to play blame ping-pong with our ex-customers"

Thanks for clarifying the 'misunderstanding'

I expect a reasonable company, when asked to sort out a mess they have created, not to tell me what they 'guess' might be happening - but rather to find out the answer and work towards fixing it.

And it *is* passing the buck. What else do you call it when company A says to speak to company B, and company B says to speak to company A. It's a particularly frustrating way of fobbing your customers' complaints off.

As far as I can see, the DRM-removal is damage control after the DRM has failed to serve it's purpose (zero-day hacking). What would show real remorse for the supposed 'misunderstanding' is either allowing furious customers to return the product, or a genuine promise to drop Ubisoft's horrible DRM from every future product.

Of course, who would believe you after this debacle?

ms-kleaneasy

08-23-2011, 08:10 AM

Perhaps I was unclear... my 'guess' was in regards to why the retailer may be sending people back, not what the situation is with a refund.

As I have said many times, any refund request must go to the retailer because it is them who must issue it where one is deemed appropriate, you can of course contact the support team here at Ubi if you wish but ultimately any refund must be arranged with the retailer.

In respect of the DRM removal, you are of course free to believe what you like but I can assure you the decision to remove it was taken because of the clear mistake in providing you with the correct information about its inclusion and for no other reason.

diamond-mx

08-23-2011, 08:51 AM

Are you genuinely missing the point, or ignoring it?

[THE POINT]
Ubisoft should communicate with Valve to resolve the "blame ping pong" issue.
[END POINT]

One of you needs to accept responsibility, and as a customer I do not care if Ubisoft thinks it's not their fault. It is Ubisoft's responsibility to open up communication with Valve ASAP rather than making excuses here.

Unless you think it's the customer's job to try to force ONE OF YOU to stop fobbing us off on the other guy.

ms-kleaneasy

08-23-2011, 09:16 AM

I'm not missing your point, I don't know who is already talking to who internally. But if not already its unlikely Ubisoft will contact Valve because Ubisoft removing the DRM means the issue is to be resolved, if Valve do not feel thats the case they are able to contact Ubi.

I can only tell you what the situation is legally in terms of potential refund and who you need to talk to, which I have already done. Sorry if its not what you wanted to hear

Stikmanlock

08-23-2011, 11:10 AM

Lol, I highly doubt Ubisoft are going to spend time and money contacting a rival game making company just so ubisoft can lose more money by giving refunds. Makes no business sense.

dariuszp

08-23-2011, 01:19 PM

Yeah it have not. Except that black PR they are making right now (check the web, loot of articles, comments, disappointed, cheated customers, complainers etc) can backfire later.

Because loot of people said that they will never pre-order anything from Ubisoft. Loot of people like mi will never buy anything. And I will be sure to pass information about lies and fraud to others.

It's basic law of business. Happy customer will tell something good about company to a friend. Mad customer will tell it to ten or more friends.

And bad reputation have impact on sales. Bioware is great example here. They provide some cheap game and call it Dragon Age II. Game get some bad reviews and loot of complain about destroying the game.
If you see sales charts - you will learn that sales drop very fast. At first week they were slightly smaller than Dragon Age: Origins. After 8 weeks they sell only 10% of the previous game (SALES OF DA II DROP 10 TIMES).
To rise sales they drop a price and throw Mass Effect 2 for free.

So You can be right. It make no sense. But we will see it in the near future.

ParadiseDecayTM

08-23-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
IF the retailer is sending you back to Ubisoft this may be because they’ve already explained why they are not legally obliged to provide a refund (i.e. the DRM issue is being resolved) and feel any further feedback from you the customer would be better placed here rather than the expectation Ubisoft can provide the refund because the retailer knows they cannot. That is of course only a guess, I don’t know for sure.

Well to be fair, I received this email 'PRIOR' to any news of the DRM change.

-------------------------------------------
2 Message by Support Tech Ronald on Fri, 19th Aug 2011 9:19 am
Hello *******,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client.

Please review Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
http://www.steampowered.com/in...subscriber_agreement (http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement)

We will make an exception and refund preorders as long as the request is received prior to the release of the game. This only applies to preorders purchased from your account, preordered titles received or sent through the Steam Trading system cannot be refunded.

-------------------------------------

So you can't start blaming the issue on the new DRM status, everything upto this point has been screenshot/documented.
I've even printed a letter for my local MP, who's interested in this case. Its gone beyond fair, and I for one am not sticking up for this nonesense anymore.

ms-kleaneasy

08-23-2011, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by ParadiseDecayTM:
So you can't start blaming the issue on the new DRM status, everything upto this point has been screenshot/documented.
I've even printed a letter for my local MP, who's interested in this case. Its gone beyond fair, and I for one am not sticking up for this nonesense anymore.

With respect I didn’t blame anything, simply offered a possible reason why refunds might be refused by the retailer at this point.

As I’ve said many times, I do not work for the retailers nor have any insight to the communications between customer and retailer or what decisions have been made by them and why.

Where I can offer facts I have, and as in this case when an opinion I have been very clear that it’s an opinion or possible explanation, nothing more.

ChrisIhao

08-24-2011, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by dariuszp:
Yeah it have not. Except that black PR they are making right now (check the web, loot of articles, comments, disappointed, cheated customers, complainers etc) can backfire later.

Because loot of people said that they will never pre-order anything from Ubisoft. Loot of people like mi will never buy anything. And I will be sure to pass information about lies and fraud to others.

It's basic law of business. Happy customer will tell something good about company to a friend. Mad customer will tell it to ten or more friends.

And bad reputation have impact on sales. Bioware is great example here. They provide some cheap game and call it Dragon Age II. Game get some bad reviews and loot of complain about destroying the game.
If you see sales charts - you will learn that sales drop very fast. At first week they were slightly smaller than Dragon Age: Origins. After 8 weeks they sell only 10% of the previous game (SALES OF DA II DROP 10 TIMES).
To rise sales they drop a price and throw Mass Effect 2 for free.

So You can be right. It make no sense. But we will see it in the near future.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Lost me at the loot there.