M1 rounds (bullets) NOT 7.62mm [Archive]

DaveTinNY

10-23-2004, 09:47 AM

I saw on a game website that they listed the M1 Garand as using 7.62mm rounds. This is incorrect for WWII M1s. 7.62 is the "NATO" round. NATO was formed in 1949. 7.62mm is understood better by all the countries that use the metric system.

THAT SAID, the round is a .30'06. The stamps on the side of the ammo cans that I have are:

400 CAL .30 CARTRIDGES
BALL M2
CARTONS
LOT LC-42690

or the 280 rounds that came on bandoliers in smaller cans:

280 CARTRIDGES
CAL .30 M2
8RD CLIPS, BULK
RR-94EO31-001

Granted, 7.62mm is roughly = .30 inches but the correct designation is Caliber .30 for WWII. Hopefully BIA has this correct.

Dave T

DaveTinNY

10-23-2004, 09:51 AM

And to follow up, on the receiver of the rifle (the metal protion just behind the rear site, it's stamped on the rifles:

U.S.RIFLE
CAL.30M1 (caliber .30, not 7.62mm)
SPRINGFIELD
ARMORY
1550587 (this is the rifle s/n)

DaveTinNY

10-23-2004, 09:52 AM

rear SIGHT... doh! too many web sites on the brain.
:-)

njcl

10-23-2004, 03:32 PM

lmfao.its only a game not an interactive simulation,ok i know its portrayed as realistic but i think the devs have more to worry about than the stamped number on the reciever...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

anti.hero-

10-23-2004, 05:07 PM

seriously dude. screw mistakes like that and just worry about how the gameplay is gonna be. so what if it's incorrect. is it really that important? i think worrying about the gameplay is more important.

DaveTinNY

10-23-2004, 08:35 PM

Well, Medal Of Honor got it right (with the stamped receiver); I'm sure BIA can too. Lighten up, fellas; just making an observation.
BIA wants historical accuracy and I'm giving the input that can easily be added.
Cheers,
Dave T

anti.hero-

10-23-2004, 10:11 PM

ok moh got it right, but is moh a good game? anyway, i'm sure they'll change it since there is a guy that was in the military helping with the game.

Colin_Campbell

10-23-2004, 11:00 PM

I think its funny that as soon as a game like Brothers in Arms comes along, the magnifying glass comes on and every little detail is scrutinized. I wonder how many historical mistakes Call of Duty made http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I think its pretty cool though, I could care less about the listed calibur of a weapon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

njcl

10-24-2004, 05:51 AM

MOHAA was a nice game for its time but old fashioned now,davetinny owns WW2 guns so its only natural he spots mistakes

DaveTinNY

10-24-2004, 06:36 AM

Thanks, njcl, I'm just trying to help make BIA the best of its genre. Not being critical. I know if I spent this much time and went to lengths such as the Devs going to Normandy and making every detail just that - detailed - then I'd certainly want the weapons and ammo to be as accurate as possible. That's the problem... too many people are happy with just an "oaky" product. Why can't it be spectacular? I think BIA is trying.
COD *is* great even with its flaws. BIA *can* be better and that's pretty amazing to think about.
Can't wait for 64 bit games!
Dave T

DaveTinNY

10-24-2004, 06:37 AM

okay product, not oaky.. lol

Colin_Campbell

10-24-2004, 09:28 AM

I personally prefer piney products, they're much more sticky http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

IL2-chuter

10-26-2004, 01:35 AM

Actually - I believe the bullits themselves (not the cases, though they are related) are the same, so the 30.06 vs. 7.62 thingy is simply date related semantics as long as its a discription of bullit diameter. To be correct, I would guess the 30.06 could be described as 7.62x61 (or so, maybe). It's late, I've nothing better to do . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

DaveTinNY

10-26-2004, 02:24 AM

IL2-chuter, now that I think about it, I think you're right... I have seen spent casings marked 7.62mm on the back and compared them with my M2 Ball ammo (the M1's .30'06 round) casings and they were a little shorter in length when stood on end.
The projectiles (bullets) themselves are probably the same size.
Anyway, I hope it's correct in BIA; it won't be the end of the world if it's not though...

Dannard

10-28-2004, 05:06 AM

I think it would be the end of the world if its not correct.
If a game says that it is an authentic game then every effort should be made to make it authentic. I think that it is good to bring up points like this because it's not a case of sacrificing gameplay for reality.

Mak6

10-28-2004, 12:55 PM

Realism...Authenticity....

I don't think Bots in MP would make it realistic nor authentic... So, if the dev's are gonna come up shy of the "realism" factor, might aswell give em some slack on the printing on the rifles...cmon now.

DaveTinNY

10-30-2004, 02:28 AM

The M1 Garand rifle. "The greatest battle implement ever devised.". -- General George
S. Patton, Jr. ... September 1966

If The Man said it, then I'd say it deserves the proper recognition in a game that uses it:

U.S. RIFLE
CAL .30 M1
SPRINGFIELD
ARMORY

The "Medal Of Honor" games got it right, so can BIA.

Dannard

10-31-2004, 07:54 AM

I'm with you on this one Dave http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

cheksixx

11-29-2004, 01:19 PM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif He's right. Any attempt at developing a WWII game should be as accurate as possible. We Who Are Older Than 25 actually know why the War was fought, who fought in it (and where) and care about little things like historical accuracy because we know you most of you youngsters will only get your history from a video game or a movie (God forbid you actually read a book--if you think that tank in SPR was a Tiger because he showed it too you and they called it a Tiger, I'm talking to you).

nohopE0

11-29-2004, 02:16 PM

They should fix it, it should be as reslisc as they can get it, and dave, are those yoru m1s you own?

nohopE0

11-29-2004, 02:22 PM

i just looked at the pics and you do O.O where did you get them, and have you shot them yet?

Dutch_vn38416

11-30-2004, 05:42 PM

Correct they are NOT 7.62mm, but I don't really care what the game says. I think the M1 was 308 or 30.06 or possible both.

DaveTinNY

11-30-2004, 06:41 PM

The WWII M1 was .30'06. Period.

US RIFLE
CAL. .30 M1
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY

I_RA

12-01-2004, 12:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cheksixx:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif He's right. Any attempt at developing a WWII game should be as accurate as possible. We Who Are Older Than 25 actually know why the War was fought, who fought in it (and where) and care about little things like historical accuracy because we know you most of you youngsters will only get your history from a video game or a movie (God forbid you actually read a book--if you think that tank in SPR was a Tiger because he showed it too you and they called it a Tiger, I'm talking to you). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gifso people younger than 25 can't know anything about WW2. Becasue i know when im playing the game im going to look on the m1 by the rear site for this
U.S.RIFLE
CAL.30M1 (caliber .30, not 7.62mm)
SPRINGFIELD
ARMORY
1550587 (this is the rifle s/n)
and if its not there then im going to boycott this game!!! cmon its a game not everything can be perfect.

JG27_Arklight

12-02-2004, 03:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DaveTinNY:
I saw on a game website that they listed the M1 Garand as using 7.62mm rounds. This is incorrect for WWII M1s. 7.62 is the "NATO" round. NATO was formed in 1949. 7.62mm is understood better by all the countries that use the metric system.

THAT SAID, the round is a .30'06. The stamps on the side of the ammo cans that I have are:

400 CAL .30 CARTRIDGES
BALL M2
CARTONS
LOT LC-42690

or the 280 rounds that came on bandoliers in smaller cans:

280 CARTRIDGES
CAL .30 M2
8RD CLIPS, BULK
RR-94EO31-001

Granted, 7.62mm is roughly = .30 inches but the correct designation is Caliber .30 for WWII. Hopefully BIA has this correct.

Dave T <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, whehter they gave it the wrong designation or not the 30-06 is a 7.62mm round, just like the .308 is a 7.26mm round.

.308 = 7.62 x 51
.30-06 = 7.62 x 63 (in Europe)

Are you sure they weren't referring to the M1 Carbine (which also happens to be .30 calibre)?

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1carbin.htm

The Garand:

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1rifle.html

Does it really matter?

DaveTinNY

12-02-2004, 06:01 PM

BUT, the United States did NOT use the metric system in those days. NATO did not exist in those days, thus, .30 caliber reigned. Period.
.30 caliber and NOT 7.62mm should be seen in this game if it's going to be 100% WWII accurate.
Dave

Moosecm86

12-02-2004, 06:14 PM

Not to rain on anyone's parade. But...

7.62mm and .30 caliber are the same EXACT size, do the conversion on a calc.

Saying a weapon fires 7.62mm means nothing except that the bullet diameter is 7.62mm, which is correct in the case of the M1 rifle.

The Carbine fires the same size bullet too, 7.62 or .30 cal.

The difference is in the amount of powder behind the bullet in the case.

The .30'06 round fired by the garand has a 63mm case length, where as the standard nato round you guys were referring to is 51mm in length.

If you want to get technical, the Russian AK, SVT, Dragonov, PKM, RPD, RPK, and DP all fire the same diameter bullets, the cartridge length is the only thing separating the different rounds.

In conclusion, the M1 does fire a 7.62mm round, same one as the BAR btw.

JG27_Arklight

12-02-2004, 07:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DaveTinNY:
BUT, the United States did NOT use the metric system in those days. NATO did not exist in those days, thus, .30 caliber reigned. Period.
.30 caliber and NOT 7.62mm should be seen in this game if it's going to be 100% WWII accurate.
Dave <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want 100% accuracy you aren't going to find it here.

I have yet to see a video game that I would picture as even remotely close.

JG27_Arklight

12-02-2004, 07:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Moosecm86:
Not to rain on anyone's parade. But...

7.62mm and .30 caliber are the same EXACT size, do the conversion on a calc.

Saying a weapon fires 7.62mm means nothing except that the bullet diameter is 7.62mm, which is correct in the case of the M1 rifle.

The Carbine fires the same size bullet too, 7.62 or .30 cal.

The difference is in the amount of powder behind the bullet in the case.

The .30'06 round fired by the garand has a 63mm case length, where as the standard nato round you guys were referring to is 51mm in length.

If you want to get technical, the Russian AK, SVT, Dragonov, PKM, RPD, RPK, and DP all fire the same diameter bullets, the cartridge length is the only thing separating the different rounds.

In conclusion, the M1 does fire a 7.62mm round, same one as the BAR btw. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I said. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

7.62mm is the same thing, people. Who cares if it says 7.62mm vs .30 calibre...

biggs222

12-02-2004, 08:01 PM

wait a second guys, ur all arguing over what a FAN GAME WEBSITE said?... has anyone actually seen the "7.62 error" on any screenshots?...im really not sure why u are all arguing about this, if there isnt even any screenshot evidence.

cmon now, take it easy guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

JG27_Arklight

12-02-2004, 08:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by biggs222:
wait a second guys, ur all arguing over what a FAN GAME WEBSITE said?... has anyone actually seen the "7.62 error" on any screenshots?...im really not sure why u are all arguing about this, if there isnt even any screenshot evidence.

cmon now, take it easy guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good point.

Let's just wait for the game and see what happens. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

biggs222

12-02-2004, 08:49 PM

ive just looked a a few M1 Bia screenshots and teh ingraving behind the rear sight isnt legible, so i dont think we can find out whether it says .30cal or 7.62

but keep in mind that Gearbox went to the US ordanace museum, so there were looking at authentic WWII weapons. so theres a good chance that they got it right.

DaveTinNY

12-03-2004, 02:07 AM

I saw it on ammo cans in another game and there was also a description by someone for *this* game on their web site that indicated 7.62mm for the M1. (Maybe they're European...)
I may seem to be nit-picking over a tiny issue but with a game that's being touted as highly as this one for accuracy in depiction of eight days during the Normandy invasion, then I'm going to bring this stuff up. Plus, I own WWII M1s (see the link below if you like) and they shoot .30 caliber NOT 7.62mm; the projectile is basically the same but the casing that holds that bullet is NOT the same. The headspacing is indeed different.
.30'06 doesn't not equal 7.62mm...
I care.
Dave

LtMarcos

12-03-2004, 02:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cheksixx:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif He's right. Any attempt at developing a WWII game should be as accurate as possible. We Who Are Older Than 25 actually know why the War was fought, who fought in it (and where) and care about little things like historical accuracy because we know you most of you youngsters will only get your history from a video game or a movie (God forbid you actually read a book--if you think that tank in SPR was a Tiger because he showed it too you and they called it a Tiger, I'm talking to you). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because i am 21 means i know nothing about WWII

also something i noticed in the E3 demo is that the Thompson had a 20 round clip i was under the assumption that it had a 30 rd clip though i may be wrong

Moosecm86

12-03-2004, 11:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Originally posted by cheksixx:
Angry He's right. Any attempt at developing a WWII game should be as accurate as possible. We Who Are Older Than 25 actually know why the War was fought, who fought in it (and where) and care about little things like historical accuracy because we know you most of you youngsters will only get your history from a video game or a movie (God forbid you actually read a book--if you think that tank in SPR was a Tiger because he showed it too you and they called it a Tiger, I'm talking to you). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yea, I'm sorry, i happen to be 18 and probably know more about the second world war than most of these guys do. Its my major in college.

And, speaking of historical accuracy, the tank in Saving Private Ryan was a Tiger tank.

Anyway, the whole deal with the 7.62 thing doesn't matter. I'm sure in the game it'll say .30 cal M1.

OH and BTW, Americans use milimetters in talking about measurements for bullets too, not just the europeans.

BTW ArkLight, sorry, i posted before i realized there was a second page. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

biggs222

12-04-2004, 01:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DaveTinNY:
I saw it on ammo cans in another game and there was also a description by someone for *this* game on their web site that indicated 7.62mm for the M1. (Maybe they're European...)
I may seem to be nit-picking over a tiny issue but with a game that's being touted as highly as this one for accuracy in depiction of eight days during the Normandy invasion, then I'm going to bring this stuff up. Plus, I own WWII M1s (see the link below if you like) and they shoot .30 caliber NOT 7.62mm; the projectile is basically the same but the casing that holds that bullet is NOT the same. The headspacing is indeed different.
.30'06 doesn't not equal 7.62mm...
I care.
Dave <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no offence dave but dont take take fan site "descriptions" as the bible on this game.

most game sites containing weapon info are european websites".de" or ".nl" websites. so they would most likely use the 7.62mm term for describing the round.

getting antsy about what a website "describes" is nothing to get antsy about. but i totally agree with you it should be .30 cal not 7.62, its jus tthat fan site that are out now are tryign to provide as much info about the game as possible with waht little they know about a game that hasnt release alot of fine details yet. so they write up info about weapons and other things as best they can, so sometimes the writing my not be 100% correct.

have no fear, Gearbox visited the US ordanance museum, as i said before. they most likely got all the terms and titles right for each weapon and each ammo type.

dave if you could provide a link it would also be nice.