PDA

View Full Version : [ old town screens thread ]



Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 10:20 AM
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Moderator information :

The new, principal Towns Screens thread is located here</span> :

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9&a=tpc&f=5861060878 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?m=5331099339&a=tpc&f=5861060878)


Let me start by a quote from official FAQ thread on this forum. First question in thread and one that most people wanted to be clarified is:

Will there be any town screen?

And the answer is: YES, totally. In the demo shown in Colonia, they used a temporary (http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/093.JPG) screen. The final one is said to be in 2D, more like H3 and H4 and not as complex as the H5 ones. Erwan Le Breton, the game producer, said it himself:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Erwan Le Breton: There will be 2D animated town screen in the release version of the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Later on Facebook Julien Pirou aka Marzhin ( http://www.facebook.com/note.p...e_id=153143868044919 (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=153143868044919) ) said:

Town screen: there is still a town screen, or more accurately, a town window. Each town still have its own theme music and all. It is a 2D, animated town screen. The Haven town screen was part of the missing elements, that's why it was replaced by a mere screenshot for the demo.

You can see more info about a city on its 3D model on the adventure map (not just its town hall and if it has fortifications). You can learn a lot about your adversary's strategy just by observing how he developed his towns.

First part from FAQ thread is not correct as I have learned from Heroes Community forum. Even Marzhin's post isn't clear enough so majority of people were mislead to believe that there will be fullscreen town screens. There was even a thread here about 2D/3D town screens and fans preferences. To most of us never occurred that this first screenshot labeled as temporary isn't a placeholder and that town screens are going to be in window just like in demo in Colonia. Furthermore Marzhin suggested that we will be able to see town development directly on adventure map in attempt to minimize significance of town screens.

What this means?

It means that we will get fixed size window for town screen instead fullscreen. If someone thinks that this will improve performance he/she is making mistake. Opening another window on adventure map will decrease performance further. In attempt to needlessly speed up game developers destroyed one of games main features.
Instead of beautiful 3D or 2D screen we will get flashlike, probably non interactive, desolate excuse for town screen.

Please post here your thoughts so we can draw some attention of developers while is still not to late.

KingImp
03-05-2011, 11:18 AM
They say that the town is going to be along the lines of what we had in H3 and H4, but right now things are not looking promising.

I'm not about to jump on the riot bandwagon like some have as I've seen from personal experience (H5) the change that can come from the Alpha and Beta versions to the final release version, but if what we have been shown is in fact what they plan on giving us, then it is clearly a bad step in the wrong direction for this series.

Enough with the "we have to speed up the game and turn it into an MMO" nonsense. Heroes is not about going fast and having lightning reflexes. It's about taking your time and strategizing. Stop trying to make this game something it's not by attempting to make it faster. If they are so worried about this slowing down performance, then try eliminating the tree animations as that is what truly bogged down people's systems, not the town screens.

Fever_K
03-05-2011, 11:22 AM
In my opinion, town windows would be an horrible mistake. I really like the game for what I've seen until now (just to point out that I'm not a regular hater), but this change would be a disaster!

Town screens (both 2D and 3D) have always been part of the game, and for a good reason!
It's great to see your city growing, full screen and with music on.
The screens grant a feeling and a particular atmosphere to each faction.
I can't really imagine Romero's music playing while looking at a town window on the adventure map!

Cities are an important part of Heroes and cannot be reduced to a 300 pixels window as if they were minor feature!

Please, change your mind about this matter: it's not too late to at least separate the towns from the adventure map..!

Thunion
03-05-2011, 12:24 PM
What this means?
It means FUUUU...Ubi stop,you made mystakes,you made good things,BUT removing the townscreen is the same as if you would have removed Shaman from WoW "to simplify the things".Making new heroes is good,they dont have to look like copy of homm 1/2/3/5 BUT removing town screen is crossing the line,dont make another h4 they crossed line and there you go,now its unrarely called worst heroes ever..Thanks for noticing that out Dark-Whisperer its better to know that now then turn on the game,enter town and then "WTF is that?"...

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I got on the Heroes Community forum last night and saw this discussion. With all due respect, I think the community website over at Heroes Community needs to calm down just a tad. There are WAY too many speculations being made that have ZERO evidential basis. I am not saying we should not voice opinions, I just think we are putting the cart WAY before the horse and are largely jumping to some pretty rediculous conclusions as a whole.

To my knowledge, the developers have not released ANY screenshots with the so-called "town screens." You and everyone else at the Heroes Community forum have no clue what these town screens (or "town windows") do or do not contain. Personally, I think you are inferring way too much from the above statements.

Let's stick with what we know for certain.

Animated 2d Screens: First, we know that the screens will be graphically intense, interactive, and animated 2D models. Personally, I think this is a good idea. Just because something is 2D does not mean it is any less visually simulating that a 3D model.

I can see why this change was made. Quite frankly, it was a pain to navigate the 3D towns in Heroes V. Half the time after purchasing a new building or upgrade, you could hardly tell that any changes were made at all to the town. It also really detracted from gameplay to take the time to enter, upload the town, and then exit, and reupload the map.

My point being is this: I think we should all reserve judgment on the 2D v. 3D issue until AFTER we have ACTUALLY SEEN the 2D results, not before. At present and giving the developers the benefit of the doubt that the screens will be no less artful and visually stimulating than the town screens in Heroes V (which they deserve), I think it may make total sense to move from 3D back to a highly animated 2D town screen.

Town Windows: Just because something is a "town window" as opposed to a "town screen" does not mean that it does not take up the majority of the screen (or all of it in its entirety) at the time you are viewing it. Once again, if the town window takes up say 75%-95% of the screen, then I don't see how this is a problem either.

That said, I HIGHLY doubt we are going to get a miniture flash-like picture window, which it seems people are assuming. Rather, from what we know, it sounds to me like you click on a town and a very large, detailed, aminated and interactive window appears that takes up the majority of the screen showing you the details of that town and allowing the player to purchase new buildings and upgrades. While the window is active, the rest of the map darkens and the music changes so it has the same "feel" of entering the town and viewing an entirely new screen.

Like I said, I am going to wait to pass judgment on this one, as should we all at this point. Provided that the window is sufficiently large enough so it takes up most of the screen, which it sounds that it does, I don't see this as a problem at all. Once again, I see the benefit that players can quickly and easily move in and out of town screens without any upload or transition time.

Honestly, who cares if the town screen is 100% fullscreen or is in a window that is 85% fullscreen? Seems a silly reason to get our panties in a wad at this point, especially when we have no clue what these screens actually look like.

3d Models of Towns and Town Upgrades on Adventure Maps: You can actually see this on a number of the screeshots, and it is pretty freaking cool. There happens to be a very noticable differnce between towns and castles. You can also see many of the upgrades and buildings in the castles. For example on one of the screenshots, the 3d model of an inferno castle has a large eye at the top of the tower, while many others do not. Clearly, the eye at the top of the tower is some sort of unique building or upgrade that could effect a player's strategy decision regarding whether to attack that castle.

I disagree also that these 3d Towns were to be used to "replace" or "diminish" the use of town screens. I think the new enhanced 3d models on the map are there as an added feature to the game, nothing more.


What this means?

It means that we will get fixed size window for town screen instead fullscreen. If someone thinks that this will improve performance he/she is making mistake. Opening another window on adventure map will decrease performance further. In attempt to needlessly speed up game developers destroyed one of games main features.
Instead of beautiful 3D or 2D screen we will get flashlike, probably non interactive, desolate excuse for town screen.

How in the world did you come to this conclusion?? Yes, I understand this is what they are discussing over at the Heroes Community forum, but to be quite frank, there is ZERO basis for such conclusions at this point.

Based on what we know for certain, and only know for certain, you can't make such outrageous conclusions.

Once again, who cares whether we get a "fullscreen" town screen or an 90% fullscreen town window? Who says the townscreen is not going to be beautiful, artistically designed 2d and animated? Who says it is going to be non-interactive and flashlike? As of right now, I see zero basis for such statments.

We should wait and see. Once we actually have a screenshot of the town screen (or town window) then we can better decide whether it is or is not a good decision. In fact, I am going to go out on limb here and go one step further that I hightly doubt we are going to dislike these changes. I could be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that I am right.

Fever_K
03-05-2011, 12:49 PM
@WaterPoloLaw: Zero basis, you say?
Did you take a look at THIS (http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/093.JPG)?

They said that the picture is a placeholder, but the rest will stay this way, as confirmed by both insiders and Pirou.
30% town windows are good enough for your taste?

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Fever_K:
@WaterPoloLaw: Zero basis, you say?
Did you take a look at THIS (http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/093.JPG)?

They said that the picture is a placeholder, but the rest will stay this way, as confirmed by both insiders and Pirou.
30% town windows are good enough for your taste?

The scroll over on the shot clearly says "Switch to Town Window." Clearly this is not the "Town Window," otherwise how would you be able to "Switch to Town Window?"

It seems pretty obvious from the picture that this is not the "Town Window," but that there is another "Town Window" (obviously larger and more detailed) to which you can navigate. I may be wrong, but this clearly looks like merely a quick window of sorts so you can see the basics of the town and adding creatures to your army without actually entering the town screen.

In fact, I would go out on a limb and say it is obvious this is the case and is facially apparent from the screenshot. I see nowhere that the player is able to purchae upgrades to the town via the use of this "Town Window." Clearly this is not a screenshot of the main "Town Window" and, as is apparent on its face, there is another more detailed "Town Window" to which you can switch to and navigate. Wouldn't you agree?

andthenitends
03-05-2011, 01:08 PM
If I can quickly buy creatures from that town window, I will say it's neat.

If I can't, then the town window is pretty useless as I will have to click to go to town window all the time anyways and it's an unnecessary constant extra click.

Edit: Actually, I'm sure there will be a way to directly enter town screen without going through the window.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by andthenitends:
If I can quickly buy creatures from that town window, I will say it's neat.

If I can't, then the town window is pretty useless as I will have to click to go to town window all the time anyways and it's an unnecessary constant extra click.

andthenitends,

Notice how there are seven locked buttons at the bottom of this quick screen. I will bet you anything that, in the final version, those seven locked buttons will allow a player to purchase the seven various creatures available in that town and move them to the player's army without the hero actually having to enter and interface with the more detailed town screen. Wouldn't you agree?

Look, I am not saying I am right, but this screenshot clearly does not appear to be the actual "town window." This appears to merely be a quick window so you can more quickly add units from the town to your army.

Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 01:21 PM
@WaterPoloLaw

I will not comment on the part of 2D vs 3D part of your post because its not topic of this thread and its been discussed before in another thread.

So lets get to work.
First release date for this game was march 2011. This clearly wont happen. New date is spring 2011 that gives around two months of development time including beta test and tying loose ends. What does that tells me about town screens?
1. Town screens are done but they don't want to show them until last moment because it will trigger avalanche of ranting
2. Town windows are still not finished and this half done "feature" will be rushed and implemented in whatever sorry state it is to meet the deadline.

If something is loaded into separate window and occupies 95% of screen whats the benefit of that? As you should know 2D graphic doesn't scale like 3D with bigger resolution. If they make large 2D screen there is no need for it to be in window. So its safe to assume that screen will be fairly small and will not take 95% of screen. Screenshot of towns screen in my first post shows it clearly.
People here were mostly against 3D because of performance reason. This window mode WILL NOT increase performance of your computer. Second concern was functionality and smaller window indicates lower functionality. I see no reason not to go full screen, absolutely none.

As Marzhin said:
You can see more info about a city on its 3D model on the adventure map (not just its town hall and if it has fortifications). This is remnant of no town screens idea. Valuable time was spent of this feature because at first there should be no town screens at all so the state of your town had to be noticeable directly from adventure map.

On the screenshot there is button that says "switch to town window" because that particular screen shows recruitment screen... nothing more, nothing less. Its safe to assume that they will not make several different size windows for every town feature.

And one more thing... 90% of those "uninformed" people ranting "without reason" on Heroes Community are hardcore fans that soak up every bit of information about this game for more then a year. I would rather raise my voice with them while something can be done about something as essential as town screens then to be surprised when there is absolutely nothing to be done. We might be already too late but I will say my opinion anyway.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 01:50 PM
I think you are blowing this out of proportion, Dark-Whisperer. I could be wrong, but I entirely disagree with your conclusions.


First release date for this game was march 2011. This clearly wont happen. New date is spring 2011 that gives around two months of development time including beta test and tying loose ends. What does that tells me about town screens?
1. Town screens are done but they don't want to show them until last moment because it will trigger avalanche of ranting
2. Town windows are still not finished and this half done "feature" will be rushed and implemented in whatever sorry state it is to meet the deadline.

Really, these are the only two options you came up with? How about the third (and most probable) option: (a) quality video games are often pushed back and almost never are released on the tentative release dates speculated by the companies over a year in advance and (b) purely aesthetic and artistic developments such as animations are almost always implemented last because they involve the least amount of testing.

I am sorry, but the most likely explanation for the move from March 2011 to Spring 2011 release date is simply that the game is not yet finished and that, in opposite to your pre-suppositions, the developers actually want to take some real time to develop the quality artistic features of the game, including but not limited to town screens.


If something is loaded into separate window and occupies 95% of screen whats the benefit of that? As you should know 2D graphic doesn't scale like 3D with bigger resolution. If they make large 2D screen there is no need for it to be in window. So its safe to assume that screen will be fairly small and will not take 95% of screen. Screenshot of towns screen in my first post shows it clearly.

No, it is not safe to assume. That is not a rational conclusion and there are many other rational explanations. Moreover, you are missing the gist of what I am arguing. For all we know at this point, they are simply calling the "town screen" a "town window" and for all we know it DOES take up the entire screen, or an amount close thereto.

The point is this, just because the developers call it a "town window" as opposed to a "town screen" does not mean anything relevant to its actual size. Call it a town portrait or a town visual for all I care, but we have no credible evidence at this point that the town screens (or town windows) are not exactly what the developers originally said they would be (i.e., 2d, highly animated, interactive and graphically and artistically intensive).


People here were mostly against 3D because of performance reason. This window mode WILL NOT increase performance of your computer. Second concern was functionality and smaller window indicates lower functionality. I see no reason not to go full screen, absolutely none.

I agree with these people and I am against 3d as well for the reasons cited, but you are missing my argument. For all we know the "town window" takes up the entire screen or close thereto. Call it whatever you want, but who really cares if the town widow takes up 100% or 80% of the screen. Now, I can see your concern that if the town window is relatively small and only takes up about 30% of the screen, then that is a problem. However, my point is that we have ZERO credible evidence that this is the case. Until we actually see a valid and confirmed screenshot, I don't think we should rush to make conclusions. Do you?



As Marzhin said:
You can see more info about a city on its 3D model on the adventure map (not just its town hall and if it has fortifications).


What is wrong with this? I actually think it is a good idea that you can now see changes on the 3d map to a town. I can't see anywhere that the developers have stated that they plan for this feature to substitute detailed 2d models of town screens (which they have already stated numerous times that they are going to implement). I don't think this is a remnant of the "no town screens" idea. I have seen nothing to make me believe that this is anything but a bonus feature in addtion to the use of town screens.



On the screenshot there is button that says "switch to town window" because that particular screen shows recruitment screen... nothing more, nothing less. Its safe to assume that they will not make several different size windows for every town feature.


I think it is PERFECTLY clear that what the screen shows is NOT the town window, period. That is just a quick window which, as someone else stated, is going to be used so you can quickly and easily move creatures from the town to your army without actually entering the town. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Clearly this is not the Town Window and there is a more detailed Town Window to which you can navigate. The screenshot shows nothing more than a quick recriutment window so the player can quickly and easily recruit units to his army without actually entering the town screen. This is a feature that would make sense to me and, again, I highly doubt it would replace actual town screen. In fact, from the screenshot, it is apparent that this is not the Town Window.


And one more thing... 90% of those people ranting "without reason" on Heroes Community are hardcore fans that soak up every bit of information about this game for more then a year. I would rather raise my voice with them while something can be done about something as essential as town screens then to be surprised when there is absolutely nothing to be done. We might be already too late but I will say my opinion anyway.

Of course you are free to state your opinion; I never said you weren't. But you are only restating my argument. I am an attorney, bud. If you don't think people get passionate, emotional and irrational about things they care about, think again. The truth is that thinking with emotion is never a good idea and is almost always irrational. Yes, I think that is exactly what is happening here and why I felt inclined to reply to your post.

I will restate again, that the Heroes Community is being too passionate and is thinking way too emotionally on this one. State your opinions, but I think the developers at Blackhole and Ubisoft would be pretty dense indeed if they honestly thought people would go for flash-based, miniscule, and non-interactive town screens. I personally just don't think the Heroes Community is giving much credit to the developers and is jumping to irrational conclusions on this one. While I can understand and appreciate their passion, the emotional and illogical thinking at this point is, in my opinion, uncalled for.

In summary, I could be dead wrong on this, but I don't think I am. That screenshot is clearly not the "Town Window" and there is clearly a much more detailed Town Window to which you can switch. I will eat my words if I am wrong, but I think it is facially apparent that we will still have a very detailed, animated, interactive, and visually stimulating 2d town window by the time this is released.

Xenofex_086
03-05-2011, 02:33 PM
However, my point is that we have ZERO credible evidence that this is the case. Until we actually see a valid and confirmed screenshot, I don't think we should rush to make conclusions. Do you? Except that Cepheus/Dreamwright, being an insider, mentioned that he'll try to arrange the window to be stretched or at least to be "stretchable". If it covers most of the screen, why would it need stretching?
but I think the developers at Blackhole and Ubisoft would be pretty dense indeed if they honestly thought people would go for flash-based, miniscule, and non-interactive town screens. Your faith in humanity is touching. They were planning the game without town screens. ANY town screens, not even town windows. And this was close to being final. Do you really think that someone who can take such a moronic thing into consideration is not capable of doing other moronic things?

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, my point is that we have ZERO credible evidence that this is the case. Until we actually see a valid and confirmed screenshot, I don't think we should rush to make conclusions. Do you? Except that Cepheus/Dreamwright, being an insider, mentioned that he'll try to arrange the window to be stretched or at least to be "stretchable". If it covers most of the screen, why would it need stretching? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, except is Cepheus an actual developer? I know he often has inside information, but I would not know.

I agree with Mr. Dragon from Heroes Community in today's response to Cepheus:



Aye but that point has been made now, no need to cause a flipping riot over it, heck we don't even know for certain that it is the case, or if it is, how bad it is.

I'm saying things have gotten out of hand, particulairly the points where people are missing the facts and just rabble rousing without a grounded reason.

Going into full hysteria mode is not going to be helping anybody, and the developers are not going to take any fan serious who is acting like a child, so it is in everybody's best interest to calm down and try to be constructive about it.

Anyway, what we need, is a screenshot of the current planned to be included town screen/window, so that we can provide meaningful feedback on it.

Until that happens, we won't be able to acurately gauge the situation.

I agree. What we need is an actual and confirmed screeenshot of the town screen/window and maybe a short video on how the developers are planning for the screen to work. Once we have this, then it would be in best interest of the game and the community to calmly and constructively voice realistic alternatives if needed or, if not needed, simply congratulate the developers on a job well done.

Remember, this is THEIR game and THEIR jobs. I know how I would feel if the company I just set-up a foreign subsidary for last week called me up and screamed and yelled at me on a technicality before they even knew that I had already implemented the structures they wanted without them having to tell me. I am a profesional after all and take pride in my work; the developers of this game are no different. In otherwords, let's calm down, find out what the facts actually are, then respectfully and professionally work toward a solution if necessary. As I stated, let's not put the cart before the horse shall we?

Xenofex_086
03-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Man, the person is involved in the development. Maybe not as much as a "real" developer but he and the other insiders certainly have relevant information about what's going on with the project. Otherwise their position as "advisors representing the community" means nothing. It's not hard at all to deduce what he said and if something changes for the better from now on regarding the town screens, it will be a result of the fan outrage, not of the good planning of the people who take the decisions. The latter already failed on more than one occasion.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
Man, the person is involved in the development. Maybe not as much as a "real" developer but he and the other insiders certainly have relevant information about what's going on with the project. Otherwise their position as "advisors representing the community" means nothing. It's not hard at all to deduce what he said and if something changes for good from now on regarding the town screens, it will be a result of the fan outrage, not of the good planning of the people who take the decisions. The latter already failed on more than one occasion.

As a professional high-stakes planner myself on the legal end of things, I can tell you that nothing...NOTHING...good ever comes from emotional "outrage."

I am certain Cepheus has "relevant" information, but relevancy is also based on timing of the information and whether or not it is "accurate" and "current." I have read the entire thread over at the Heroes Community and I think it is clear that we do not know for certain whether what is being presented is actually the case or, if it is, how bad it is, or, if our speculations are based on largely outdated material, or worse, on material that was misunderstood or misinterpreted in the first place. For all we know at this point, this could very-well be a non-issue.

Once again, I think we wait for an official screenshot. We wait until we have the facts and information necessary to make an informed opinion instead of jumping to conclusions based on what is largely, yes, rumor.

Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 03:11 PM
@WaterPoloLaw


First release date for this game was march 2011. This clearly wont happen. New date is spring 2011 that gives around two months of development time including beta test and tying loose ends. What does that tells me about town screens? What you failed to notice, bud, is bolded part. All I said was about town screens. So your elaboration about delaying game is irrelevant.

Next, it is confirmed by insiders that town window will NOT be full screen. It is you who assume that screen will be larger then 30%. And further:

Originally posted by WaterPoloLaw:
That is just a quick window which, as someone else stated, is going to be used so you can quickly and easily move creatures from the town to your army without actually entering the town. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. So there is YOUR assumption without ANY evidence. Nice work since you are so adamant not to jump to conclusions without proof.
At least I'm making an educated guess, you are making just leap of fate.

About your proposal to wait and see screenshots and then pass judgement Ill say this - when you see it its to late to change it. If there is doubt that town screens are going to be small and non interactive now is the time to voice our opinion, not when its all over. All that UBI should do if they see fan base so agitated without reason is to let Xhane or Marzhin say just few words to reassure us something that bad wont happen.

And again people from HC who have far more information about the game (and not just Heroes VI) are stating their opinion. Maybe its in passionate manner but behind it is cold logic and tons of experience. Thats what you fail to acknowledge. Maybe I sound bitter and too critical for no reason but I would rather improve things that are IMHO flawed then to be so overhyped to the point that I can't see clearly. You are as passionate to prove that UBIHole has immaculate vision as we are to point its flaws.

I think you should read HC forum more thoroughly before you judge people. But first gather some more info about things that are not officially announced but confirmed by insiders. From your posts I can see that you don't have clear idea who insiders are and how relevant information they have. So do your homework first then praise UBIHole gods. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fever_K
03-05-2011, 03:25 PM
@WaterPoloLaw: Ok, you are an attorney. You are also trying too hard here.

Fans are asking for towns' screenshots since months, even on M&M facebook page. Still, not a single image or a word about town screens from Ubihole.
In the meantime, insiders confirmed town windows. They can only describe them, because they aren't allowed to post unofficial screenshots or pictures.
Therefore, if the basis of your "defense" is that the whole topic is an illogical conclusion by irrational fans, please think again: there are evident reasons why we should worry.

Your point about the "switch to town window" button seems very weak as well. As other people already pointed out, do you really think they made 2 kind of town windows; for example: one 30% size for creatures and one 80% size for buildings? What would be the point of this anyway? Just give us a full-screen town, if that's the case.

We need to raise our voices now, because it seems that they touched something very precious to the series and to many fans, and it's not too late to make it clear.
What's the point in being silent waiting for the final screenshots, when everything will be set in stone and ready to be released? It might as well be too late even now!
There is no emotional outrage, we are just showing developers that this "silence policy" isn't working, and we'd like something clear at least now, in the supposed month of game release.

Wouldn't you agree?

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 03:42 PM
What you failed to notice, bud, is bolded part. All I said was about town screens. So your elaboration about delaying game is irrelevant.

I did not fail to notice that and you are just getting emotional again. My points were totally relvant. You were arguing that the delay tells you one of two options about town screens. I provided you with a third option which you did not consider and which, by the way, was much more probable. Animation and aethetics are always developed last in any game to the extent they can be since they don't have to be tested and restested. My statements were wholly relevant and in context of the argument. My option remains the more likely of those presented.


Next, it is confirmed by insiders that town window will NOT be full screen.

I have read the thread and see where the screen will most likely not be full screen according to the statements of various insiders, but other than that there are several insiders who seem to all agree they know very little otherwise.

My point is simple: if the insiders themselves don't even know what is going on in its entirety, how can we? I see zero confirmation of your so-described "likely" conclusions of tiny, miniscule, flash-based, non-interactive screens.



It is you who assume that screen will be larger then 30%.

Of course I assume this, and it is entirely rational and logical that I do so. Every Heroes game since the dawn of time has included visually appealing town screens. I am not disputing they might be full screens or they might not, I am disputing that, even if not entirely full screen, they will be immersive and most impressive. I have every right to make that assumption based on past course of dealing.

If you are going to show me differently, show me some credible proof (i.e., not an outdated screenshot taken on an i-phone of something that even the insiders cannot agree 100% on and which states on its face "Switch to Town Screen). I am not trying to be a **** or fecicious and I can understand your concerns, but you can't expect me to believe this is something you are claiming it is when a quick look at the picture would appear to be otherwise.


So there is YOUR assumption without ANY evidence. Nice work since you are so adamant not to jump to conclusions without proof.

I am just stating what it clearly appears to be. If that is not what it is, then articulate a plausible argument why I am wrong. Why does the screenshot clearly state "Switch to Town Window." Does it not appear to you that this is not the "Town Window."


At least I'm making an educated guess, you are making just leap of fate.

BS, you are only acting emotional based on rumor. You are a passionate fan about this game, but have little to zero knowledge of what is actually being developed. You have posted on this forum your hysterics about a rumor that has not yet been confirmed as being (a) accurate and (b) current even by insiders. You are not making an educated guess, you are putting the cart before the horse when you yourself know nothing.


About your proposal to wait and see screenshots and then pass judgement Ill say this - when you see it its to late to change it. If there is doubt that town screens are going to be small and non interactive now is the time to voice our opinion, not when its all over.

Hate to break this to you, bud. But you ani't developing this game. If the developers want your opinion, they'll probably ask for it.

The truth is I would like to see immersive at least near full-screen town screens just as much as you would. But coming here and crying foul and making accusations based on rumor when there may not even be one isn't going to win over any fans at Ubisoft. Once again, if they want information from the community on town screens, they will release screenshots and take feedback from the forums. That screenshot you posted seems like something someone took from an i-phone. How relevant is the screenshot? Basic rules of evidence, bud: (a) accuracy and (b) currentness. For all any of us know (and from what I can tell from all the insiders know) this may have been something that the developers were at one time working on. Was it the actual town screen? Maybe. Maybe not. I can't seem to find any definitive confirmation one way or the other. When was the shot taken? Recently, or three months ago? I can't tell. Even if it were today, we still likely have months left of artwork and aethetics that will be implemented before release.

Until I hear some sort of official confirmation that this is indeed accurate and current (and therefore relevant) and surely what Ubisoft and BH are moving forward with, then I am not going to get my panties in a wad. Indeed, doing so is only going to cause more harm than good. If everything you are claiminig is indeed the accurate, current and relevant truth, then we can worry about it at the time it is confirmed. Otherwise, I say we let the developers do their job without starting a riot, especially when the need to do so has been wholly unconfirmed.

Honestly, we tell them we want 2d and not 3d, we tell them we want a way for them to speed up gameplay and now we get it and we cry foul? Put yourself if the shoes of a developer for a minute. You really think the best way to ask for changes to implementations we may not agree with is to create community outrage? Let's find out the facts first, then work constructively, that is all I am saying.

kodial79
03-05-2011, 03:45 PM
There's been a closed beta already, so I guess that means that the game is pretty much complete and there are only some finishing touches left, perhaps some later missions and maps that were not included in the Beta.

But since there's a been a Beta testing, everything essential must have been completed already, including town screens. How can there be a Beta if Town Screens are still a WIP?

Unless the Town Screens aren't important for them, which is also a very likely case...

Also, the Hungarian magazine Gamestar's preview of the game said that there are Town Windows and not screens and they did not mention if they could be stretched and take up the entire screen. I bet if that was possible, they would have mentioned it.

Now where did you come up with the part of the town screens being interactive? I didn't read that anywhere. They only said that Town Screens will be in game and that's all.

http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/097.JPG

Here's a Town Screen screenshot. Cepheus said about it, that it was still a WIP, but this is pretty much it. It's a very small window for it to be interactive and hell of a lot of buttons for a UI interface. My bet is, they're not interactive.

As for the size of the window. Well, unfortunately, this is it. Insiders are trying to convince them to change the size or make it possible that we can stretch the image. That simply, the size hasn't changed, it's what we see on that pic.

Cepheus also made an H3 to be taken as an indication of how a Town Screen in H6 will be like:
http://i192.photobucket.com/al.../Cepheus_03/H3HD.png (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z199/Cepheus_03/H3HD.png)

Small, isn't it?

Xenofex_086
03-05-2011, 03:49 PM
As a professional high-stakes planner myself on the legal end of things, I can tell you that nothing...NOTHING...good ever comes from emotional "outrage."

I am certain Cepheus has "relevant" information, but relevancy is also based on timing of the information and whether or not it is "accurate" and "current." I have read the entire thread over at the Heroes Community and I think it is clear that we do not know for certain whether what is being presented is actually the case or, if it is, how bad it is, or, if our speculations are based on largely outdated material, or worse, on material that was misunderstood or misinterpreted in the first place. For all we know at this point, this could very-well be a non-issue.

Once again, I think we wait for an official screenshot. We wait until we have the facts and information necessary to make an informed opinion instead of jumping to conclusions based on what is largely, yes, rumor. In this case nobody is asking for your professional legal opinion as it is not needed at all. You represent this as some drama which it isn't as nothing bad could come out of it for the fans. The things can't get worse here, we've seen the bottom, there is place only for improvement. The question is whether this improvement will happen or not. I, unlike you, prefer to express my pretty negative opinion regarding the facts that are already presented to us regarding the town screens/windows and to hope that if more people think like me and express their opinions, this could lead to a change. I don't have any illusions that the big corporations are run by masterminds who have brilliant understanding of the human psychology and a cunning plan how to make an excellent product which the majority of the people will like, even though the common mortal could see the things otherwise. Even if I disregard my starting position that there are no flawless humans, I've seen more than enough empirical evidences confirming that even the most high-ranking individuals could be hopeless idiots - intelligence just isn't the only prerequisite for success, you see.
So if they have something significantly BETTER than the miserable town windows shown last year, nothing stops them from dissipating the fears of the people who should ultimately fill their pockets. And in this case they have nothing to worry about, right? But if you haven't noticed, they aren't doing anything like it and on the contrary - the insiders confirm the fears and the insiders are under NDA. So it's only logical that the fans will want what they (we) know to be changed as all the available information affirms that the chance to remain in its current, VERY unsatisfactory state, is very high. And here of course some people who consider themselves the voice of reason start to cry that we still don't know everything and should wait for something official. Well, I guess you won't run for cover if you see a squadron of bombers in the sky - after all they may not even carry bombs... But anyway - how long do you think we should wait? Until the game is released? They are completing the thing, it will be out after 2-3 months and at this point very few things can be revised. But of course you can always wait for the bombs to start falling, just to make sure that you aren't running for nothing.

Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 04:08 PM
Woooow, bud, Im not being hysterical but maybe you are. LOL!

That screenshot is taken directly from this OFFICIAL forum, FAQ thread as I mentioned before. Its UBI's official shot, so if its taken with i-phone its OFFICIAL i-phone.
Maybe you are used to do things after all smoke is cleared and to pick up pieces when there is nothing else left to do, but I like to do things in advance to prepare and try to make a difference.
Look, if you are right and there will be fullscreen town screens and we are overreacting, there is no harm done. Game is perfect, some crazy fans ranted, everything is great. But if you are wrong we have the opportunity to try correct this mess. Maybe its your style to accept things as served, its not mine for sure.

And for third time I will say what others said too, its just not reaching you for some reason, insiders who have deep knowledge of the developing process and are informed within days whats going on have confirmed that town screens are not going to be nowhere near full screen. I guess drawing this is next step.
There is no more question if town screens are going to be 3D or 2D there is question what level of cheapness are we going to be served and should we just sit or react.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Whatever, Xenofex. If you feel more rationalized to call foul when there clearly may be none, then I can't argue with that. It is the old shoot first and ask questions later approach and I can tell you it rarely works when you are trying to obtain something that you simply lack the power to go out there and take yourself, as is true in the present case.

I was not expressing any legal opinion or advise, only stating the obvious that crying foul when none has been confirmed to be not only a little childish, but slightly couterproductive don't you think? The insiders themselves have all confirmed that the issues of town screens or town windows or whatever you call them is only a work in progress at the moment. The insiders themselves don't seem to have too much information regarding the direction Ubisoft or Blackhole are planning to take on this.

I think the developers would have to be either (a) entirely deaf or (b) brain-dead by now to not understand that the community does not want small, minisucle, flash-based, non-interactive town screens and, yes, it appears they would prefer full screens or close thereto. My only point was this: do you really think this is the best way to go about achieving our desires?

Indeed, it appears we are operating from entirely different premises. You are operating from an act before we have verified the facts point of view. I am operating from the opposite.

Do whatever you feel is necessary I suppose. For me, I would like to see large and highly detailed town screens just as much as you. I just think it is simple negotiative strategy to not **** off the hand that feeds so to speak, especially when I have seen nothing to verify our concerns in the least.

Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 04:28 PM
@WaterPoloLaw
So you would rather bend over then say what you mean because of fear that developer/producer will get mad and do what... not finish the game? Make it bad just to tick us off? LOL.
If we say nothing we will be ignored because they think they are doing whats right. Uproar at HC and here must show otherwise. Simple as that.
Maybe we are not in charge of development but we represent people who will give them money for their product. Its in their best interest to make product appealing to consumers don't you think?

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 04:34 PM
What exactly has been confirmed, dark-whisperer? All the insiders only seem to confirm is that town screens are presently a work in progress...that is all.

This would surely make sense and is entirely within the reasoning of the option I provided -- i.e., that they are delaying the release of the game to ensure that the animations and artwork, including townscreens, are exactly how they want them to be.

The problem here is quite simple, you and others appear to be operating from a shoot now ask later approach. That approach has never worked for me and, in my opinion, rarely does in the real world.

I will, again, restate Mr. Dragon's reply to Cepheus in the Heroes Community forum today:




Aye but that point has been made now, no need to cause a flipping riot over it, heck we don't even know for certain that it is the case, or if it is, how bad it is.

I'm saying things have gotten out of hand, particulairly the points where people are missing the facts and just rabble rousing without a grounded reason.

Going into full hysteria mode is not going to be helping anybody, and the developers are not going to take any fan serious who is acting like a child, so it is in everybody's best interest to calm down and try to be constructive about it.

Anyway, what we need, is a screenshot of the current planned to be included town screen/window, so that we can provide meaningful feedback on it.

Until that happens, we won't be able to acurately gauge the situation.

The only issues I am taking with you, DarkWhisperer and Xenofex, is only that I think you may be misstating what has allegedly been "confirmed." The only thing that the insiders have clearly confirmed is that town screens are a work in progress. That, and I do not believe that crying foul before we even clearly understand what is happening in this situation is, yes, putting the cart before the horse.

You keep saying things have been confirmed, but it is very clear that nothing has even with respect to the insiders. The truth will out soon enough and there will be plenty of time for construtive comments and feeback, or do you really believe it is not in Ubi's best interest to put out a game that is compatible with the desires of the community before it is even released?

Fever_K
03-05-2011, 04:39 PM
My only point was this: do you really think this is the best way to go about achieving our desires?

If you know a better way, I'm in!
Still, the "sit and wait" thing won't do.

And how exactly can our "outrage" be counterproductive? Will they punish us with even smaller town windows? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sorry if I go personal now: WaterPolo, you registered 4 days ago just to praise to death everything about Heroes VI.
Now you are spending all your energies in defending it from supposed overreacting fans.
Let's just say that we have different ways of defending and fighting for the game we love.

I think the point of this thread is to hear something from Xhane or some other Ubihole guy and to collect fans' opinions.
I still have to hear someone saying "Town windows? GREAT IDEA!".

What I'm trying to say is that all your efforts in trying to convince us just to "wait and see" are irrilevant if you aren't a insider/developer and if we are "overreacting", you for sure are "overdefending"!

Dark-Whisperer
03-05-2011, 04:46 PM
This is exactly what Cepheus said on HC forum:

Additionally this shouldn't even be news, because it was the very first thing Marzhin said about the game, way back, and it's been the same way in every single screenshot or video since. and
At the moment the rumours are correct; there is a town window, and the town window will likely remain in the finished game as far as I can predict. There'll still be atmospheric, animated graphics and town themes (superior to H5's). The only difference is resolution. Personally I would prefer the town screens to hog the entire monitor as in the previous games, but the windows do make for faster play, theoretically. Only time (and playtesting) will tell which is the better solution.
So town window in its current state has EXACTLY same dimensions as this http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/093.JPG screenshot.

Look at the official video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ALN0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIyZrezALN0&feature=related) at 00:10 - thats town window.

Straight from the mouth of insider and not just any insider but Cepheus. Anything else?

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 05:24 PM
I'll be honest that I am a little shocked. It is one thing to keep this window to improve gamespeed and mechanics. I don't mind that. In fact, I will be honest that I think the whole idea of interacting with the window is a great idea, but it cannot replace the immersion of seeing the full epic structure of your town.

Players should have the option to "view" their towns and cities in their full glory, with all of the immersion etc. of past games.

There is no reason why we should not be able to have a full screen version view of our cities set to music. I really don't care too much if we never interact with that screen. Just a view button set to epic music that shows off our cities in their full glory.

In other words, if this is indeed the direction they are going, then I would be (and presently am) disappointed. I wouldn't mind interacting with the town and its units solely by virtue of the town window.

However, with only 5 factions, it should not be too difficult to implement a simple "view town" button that shows the city in all of its full-screen glory, even if players can not interact in any way with this screen.

Yes, the function would be purely aethetic and players could choose to never view their town the entire game. Nonetheless, I agree it would be an important (even necessary) element to include in the game.

Assuming you are right, I agree this is unacceptable.

Sorry for being such a pain in the ***. This is me eating my words. I guess I just had a hard time believing you.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 05:44 PM
At the moment the rumours are correct; there is a town window, and the town window will likely remain in the finished game as far as I can predict. There'll still be atmospheric, animated graphics and town themes (superior to H5's). The only difference is resolution. Personally I would prefer the town screens to hog the entire monitor as in the previous games, but the windows do make for faster play, theoretically. Only time (and playtesting) will tell which is the better solution.

If this is true, then how hard would it be to simply add a "view town" button that had no purpose other than to show the town in full screen? If we already have a screen that shows the town with certain animated graphics and town themes, you would think it would not be too hard to add a simple button that made that picture full screen.

TaintedCherub
03-05-2011, 07:22 PM
I am all for this actually. I love heroes but as a casual gamer with a career and other hobbies, the older games just seem too slow.

If this town window pops up straight away and has an interface that lets you speed through the buying processes, I think it`ll be a good thing.

The last map I played was part of the HOMM2 campaign, there were about 20 castles on the map and it took me literally all day. This was partly down to the time it took to go through all those castles and make buying decisions, waiting for each town screen to load on the way.

I can see how many of the faithful are annoyed though. I think it would not be a bad idea to either a) make it stretchable as they`ve suggested (even to full screen or nearly) or b) implement a view town screen.

I have noticed screenshots with a very zoomed in view of towns, it seems you can have a 3d gander at your hard work that way.

Last thing - this is 5 years after the last game and has a different developer. It is not unreasonable for things to change a little. I am excited by what I`ve seen because it isn`t a clone of previous games in the series but nevertheless looks like a great game on its own merits. This means potential wider appeal, which in turn means a more dynamic multiplayer scene, especially if all this streamlining really does translate into faster gameplay. It also means better expansions, the quality and indeed existence of which will depend on sales of the core game.

andthenitends
03-05-2011, 07:53 PM
I don't know why you guys keep talking as if there was no town screen when there is clearly an option on that screenshot to go to full town view.

WaterPoloLaw
03-05-2011, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by TaintedCherub:
I am all for this actually. I love heroes but as a casual gamer with a career and other hobbies, the older games just seem too slow.

If this town window pops up straight away and has an interface that lets you speed through the buying processes, I think it`ll be a good thing.

The last map I played was part of the HOMM2 campaign, there were about 20 castles on the map and it took me literally all day. This was partly down to the time it took to go through all those castles and make buying decisions, waiting for each town screen to load on the way.

I can see how many of the faithful are annoyed though. I think it would not be a bad idea to either a) make it stretchable as they`ve suggested (even to full screen or nearly) or b) implement a view town screen.

I have noticed screenshots with a very zoomed in view of towns, it seems you can have a 3d gander at your hard work that way.

Last thing - this is 5 years after the last game and has a different developer. It is not unreasonable for things to change a little. I am excited by what I`ve seen because it isn`t a clone of previous games in the series but nevertheless looks like a great game on its own merits. This means potential wider appeal, which in turn means a more dynamic multiplayer scene, especially if all this streamlining really does translate into faster gameplay. It also means better expansions, the quality and indeed existence of which will depend on sales of the core game.

I can agree with this. However, they really should implement a "view town" option, if only to give the players that bit of reward for their hard work to see the full glory of the towns they have created.

TaintedCherub
03-05-2011, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by andthenitends:
I don't know why you guys keep talking as if there was no town screen when there is clearly an option on that screenshot to go to full town view.

Yeah, also this. Should wait for a little more confirmation before stocking up on kalashnikovs.

Dark-Whisperer
03-06-2011, 12:23 AM
How fast should TBS be?

Heroes has always been game of immersion. It all about your hero, your kingdom, your castle. I want to see every building, I want to see my town grow I want to admire its glory. Some people are actually spending time in their towns because they want to listen to music and admire architecture. Whats the point after all to hire Paul Romero to make music piece of art if you don't even want to spend few seconds in your own town?
Big part of Heroes appeal and strategical value is making decisions what to build and when, what creatures to buy and in what amount and that will even be more important with new creature pool system. That takes time if you want to do it properly. Even then most of turn time is spent on creeping and battles. I guess that next step in speeding up the game will be be quick combats only so we can save even more time. Im playing to enjoy myself not to press end turn button as fast as possible.

How much time do you really loose if you just want to quickly skip from town to town to quickly buy creatures with full town screen? Seconds. Is that so important in TBS to destroy one of its iconic features?

Why do you think that this kind of window will speed up your buying process? As screenshot suggest whole interface is cumbersome with too many buttons and by the looks of it it would be even harder to quickly buy creatures.

Some kind of quick access panel for buying creatures should be an option, not main feature.


Originally posted by TaintedCherub:
The last map I played was part of the HOMM2 campaign, there were about 20 castles on the map and it took me literally all day. This was partly down to the time it took to go through all those castles and make buying decisions, waiting for each town screen to load on the way. If you have problem with loading times in Heroes 2, game that saw light of the day in 1996 you will not be able to even start Heroes 6.

Originally posted by andthenitends:
I don't know why you guys keep talking as if there was no town screen when there is clearly an option on that screenshot to go to full town view. Please read carefully what I quoted in my last post, look at the screenshot and the video. What you see is what we will get. That window is supposed to be placeholder for town screen. How majestic that full town view will be in that tiny window?

Asterisk
03-06-2011, 01:42 AM
I suggest to chill the fokk out, everybody. Devs know what they are doing. Game comes out - you like it, you buy it. You don't like it, you move onto the better things. Nobody owes you anything and nobody will listen to your whine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fever_K
03-06-2011, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
I suggest to chill the fokk out, everybody. Devs know what they are doing. Game comes out - you like it, you buy it. You don't like it, you move onto the better things. Nobody owes you anything and nobody will listen to your whine.

And who are you to say that so?
Just stick to the topic and discuss the change, stop attacking us for starting the thread: that's what forums are for.
Do you think developers allowed insiders to be part of the process just to tell us, old time fans, to "shut up and fokk out"?

Ubihole seemed to want a connection with the fanbase, both via insiders and on the forums.
We are giving them that connection.

And once again: the fact that we are complaining about this important feature doesn't mean that we are blind outraging haters. On the contrary, it shows that we are interested in the game way more than someone who thinks "Don't like it? Move to better things".

znork
03-06-2011, 03:07 AM
Do keep the debate gooing. I know for a fact that black hold programer are reading this forum. So if there is a programer sitting workign on the town screen you can bet youre ... that his reading youre posts.

Im hoping for a modern version of the h3 townscreen. I want it to be easy to wiche town i have built in and easy to switche to the next town.

Xenofex_086
03-06-2011, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by WaterPoloLaw:
Whatever, Xenofex. If you feel more rationalized to call foul when there clearly may be none, then I can't argue with that. It is the old shoot first and ask questions later approach and I can tell you it rarely works when you are trying to obtain something that you simply lack the power to go out there and take yourself, as is true in the present case.

I was not expressing any legal opinion or advise, only stating the obvious that crying foul when none has been confirmed to be not only a little childish, but slightly couterproductive don't you think? The insiders themselves have all confirmed that the issues of town screens or town windows or whatever you call them is only a work in progress at the moment. The insiders themselves don't seem to have too much information regarding the direction Ubisoft or Blackhole are planning to take on this.

I think the developers would have to be either (a) entirely deaf or (b) brain-dead by now to not understand that the community does not want small, minisucle, flash-based, non-interactive town screens and, yes, it appears they would prefer full screens or close thereto. My only point was this: do you really think this is the best way to go about achieving our desires?

Indeed, it appears we are operating from entirely different premises. You are operating from an act before we have verified the facts point of view. I am operating from the opposite.

Do whatever you feel is necessary I suppose. For me, I would like to see large and highly detailed town screens just as much as you. I just think it is simple negotiative strategy to not **** off the hand that feeds so to speak, especially when I have seen nothing to verify our concerns in the least. For a person who wants facts you dismiss them easily when then don't help your case. I certainly won't hire you to represent my interests in the court.
The insiders may not have the information about every single detail of the development but what they have access to is fairly recent and reliable. The town screens are a BIG issue so the chances that they are told the same old stuff which was presented to us are zero. The people played the beta one month ago, in case you don't know, and this is just among other things. If you prefer to ignore this and the information released in a Hungarian game magazine, be my guest and be as blind and deaf as you want but spare the people the automatic pseudo call to reason.
The developers are doing what they are told to do, I doubt that this whole town screen/window mess is their idea. And even if it is, it still needs Ubisoft's approval so the latter are to be held responsible. Like I said, you are showing faith worthy of a priest but these level-headed and reasonable people you are talking about already approved the release of a half-finished, nearly unplayable game 5 years ago. The outcry after the Heroes V open beta was so loud that they were forced to delay the said officially planned release and still when the game was released, it's state was disastrous. And they are not the only big company in the game industry that is known to take very unpopular decisions and eventually ruin great games. As far as I'm concerned, they are still to build an image of people who give a damn about Heroes and not only about the money that it will generate for them.
As for the "hand that feeds" - this is really moving! They feed us??? You have a very wrong idea of how this works - we are the ones who will pay for the game, i.e. we are the ones who can make demands, not the other way around. But your level of conformism seems to be very high and I don't know if you can understand this.

I don't know why you guys keep talking as if there was no town screen when there is clearly an option on that screenshot to go to full town view. You seem to know something that we don't. Pray tell, how does this button function exactly and what's the point in having both town window AND town screen at the same time?

kodial79
03-06-2011, 06:13 AM
That button that reads 'switch to Town Window' has me a little bit confused.

You see, it is a Town Window already! So, switch to what?

If it was a full screen, then saying 'Switch to Town Window' would make sense. Now it's just a window, so what does it switches to?

It either gets even smaller or gets the town image out of the way.

KingImp
03-06-2011, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by kodial79:
That button that reads 'switch to Town Window' has me a little bit confused.

You see, it is a Town Window already! So, switch to what?

If it was a full screen, then saying 'Switch to Town Window' would make sense. Now it's just a window, so what does it switches to?

It either gets even smaller or gets the town image out of the way.

This confuses me as well. I hope it's not another case of bad translation like we had in Heroes 5. I'm sure by now everyone knows of the dreaded "Spare Hero" button that actually does the opposite of what it implies.

Anyway, like I said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as I've seen the difference between Alpha and Beta versions compared to the final release version, but everyone (especially the town window supporters) need to keep this quote in mind. Of all things, this concerns me the most and is why we are fighting for a change.

Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
They were planning the game without town screens. ANY town screens, not even town windows. And this was close to being final. Do you really think that someone who can take such a moronic thing into consideration is not capable of doing other moronic things?

It's only because people complained that they actually put something in. How can anyone have faith in the devs if they were originally going to leave it out altogether?

znork
03-06-2011, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by KingImp:

It's only because people complained that they actually put something in. How can anyone have faith in the devs if they were originally going to leave it out altogether?

That is not correct kingimp. And you should trust them becuse if you belive youre infor to be correct you have proven they are listning.

KingImp
03-06-2011, 08:53 AM
If I am wrong, then I apologize, but I find it hard to believe that originally they were planning on giving us nothing as Xenofex said, but then decided all of a sudden to add these town windows on their own. More than likely it was from some prodding that they decided to break down and put more work into it. Kinda like the battlefield size of H5.

znork
03-06-2011, 09:18 AM
Well the town screens where always planed as far as i know. They toled me so back when i was at gamescon.

wdcryer
03-06-2011, 09:24 AM
Maybe they were using windows so you could use the rest of the UI and view the minimap while deciding what to do in your town. This would be an easy indication of what town you were viewing, whether or not it was in danger, etc. Granted, a minimap could be overlaid on a town screen.

If this thread is for fan feedback, I'll chip in and say I would be okay with the town window. I kind of like it, in fact.

Xenofex_086
03-06-2011, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by znork:
Well the town screens where always planed as far as i know. They toled me so back when i was at gamescon. One of Dexter's posts on the HC Discussion thread says the opposite. And as far as I remember, there was another short outrage soon after the announcement of the game because there were rumours that there will be no town screens at all. How these rumours appeared I don't remember but at this point nobody would have imagined that Heroes without town screens is possible at all so I guess it wasn't spread because somebody had a weird bad dream. And lastly the town windows appear to be exactly what they look like on the Igromir trailer - a placeholder for real town screens. If they had the town screens in mind from the very beginning and knew that very few people will be content with these windows, they would have told us directly that, yes, there will be good old-fashioned town screens and no, nobody is planning to do anything else. Instead they told us that their intention is to make the town growth visible on the adventure map - which is fine but suspicious at the same time as they may have planned to stop there and only decided to make these windows later.
Anyway, that's the past. The whole advertising of the game is a mess - where there is any advertising at all - so better focus on the future. For the future I want nothing less than a town screen/window, which covers at least 70-80% of the screen. 70-80% without the buttons and the rest of the control interface please! I don't want them to invent new glorious resource-consuming things, just the old Heroes I-IV like town screens or at least something similar to them.

Dreamwright
03-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Hi guys (I am Cepheus). It's great to see your passion about this issue on display, but please don't tear each other apart. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I'm currently doing what I can to investigate and fight for the fullscreen option, but again I can promise nothing, and don't get your hopes up yet. Like I said there are more (much more) important issues currently, and there is quite some work to be done.

znork
03-06-2011, 12:57 PM
There is a lot of things that has been gooing on and there i a lot things gooing on. There will be a townscreen. Som time in the past the might have planed somting else who knows.

Thunion
03-06-2011, 01:20 PM
I suggest to chill the fokk out, everybody. Devs know what they are doing. Game comes out - you like it, you buy it. You don't like it, you move onto the better things. Nobody owes you anything and nobody will listen to your whine. Smile
Well first of all if we not whine,nothing changees and we possibly wont like the game,if we wont like the game we dont buy the game,if we dont buy the game devs dont get money:Conclusion we dont whine-no one happy.

WaterPoloLaw
03-06-2011, 03:56 PM
Xneofex,

I probably deserved that last post focused at me (though the comment as to my professional ability as an attorney was a little below the belt I think). Nonetheless, the truth is that I myslef am fairly passionate about this game and; indeed, it was a little hypocritical of me to point the fingers at others for a call for rationality when I myself am clearly a little to passionate.

I did not have all of my facts straight and I apologize. Nonetheless, it sounds like the insiders and developers are well aware of the issue. In short, I hope no hard feelings between you, Dark-Whisperer, and others.

Best.

WaterPoloLaw
03-06-2011, 04:18 PM
Thanks Dreamwright and Znork for the information and the updates. We appreciate your efforts.

Dark-Whisperer
03-07-2011, 02:43 AM
It is very important for everyone to understand that people who point out things that are not to their liking are not haters and whiners. At least not in this topic. We don't try to put spoke in developers wheels or ruin the game. Its quite the opposite, if we don't speak up about possible errors while game is in development we risk that game we love so much will have flaws.

Heroes VI has potential to be one of best parts of the series and I for one want to see it done perfectly. While the game is in development Ill criticize everything I don't like. People on forums can agree or prove me wrong, that's why we are having this forum for. After the game is out I will applaud on job well done if its deserved.

If one of the strongest fan sites have a problem with part of the game developers should know about it. Many of us spend more then 15 years with Heroes as favorite game and for that reason we find that its our call to point out its weakest features.

So try to cool your head and think why we are doing this before using words like: fokk out, take a hike, or shuttup and buy some other game... Its in OUR best interest to let developers know what are our preferences. If we aim for mediocre game and don't really care about some of its important aspects we will get mediocre result.

So just look with cold logic at those town windows and post what you really want to see in game, not what you will be just ok with.

mcgslo
03-08-2011, 12:59 AM
They didnít release any information about town management? What do we know exactly?
I think they mentioned some 4 unique building in each town. Are these buildings specific for faction and remain the same? Or player can choose from many unique buildings and build them (but only four). What is with that?

My opinion for town screen is it should be full screen 2D or 2.5D with animated buildings and that player knows when he/she builds structures. I didnít like H5 town screen at all (and it run bad because of bad optimization, not bad computers). I would like to see what WaterPoloLaw suggested/mentioned that we get first quick mini screen for buying creatures (and maybe market, if itís still there) and second more detail for buying buildings .
But for now it seems that we get that 50% of screen window and there when you select different part of town like building structures, manage creatures, market place etc. the window will remain (at 50%) and only inside will change. Which is not bad idea at all but it should be really bigger like around 80%.

I am sure they will at least try to make it right and that it will be enjoyable. But also agree with Dark-Whisperer that people with comments like ďif you donít like you donít buy itĒ should get the F. out. Forums are here for talking about problems of upcoming and current and past games. They are making the games for us and for their ďgoldĒ so we should get the game we want and at least try to direct developers. That goes for sequels and not new games off course.

PS. For me again more important is more MAPs and RMG. :P

kodial79
03-08-2011, 09:38 AM
It's actually only four unique buildings per faction, out of which you can only build two.

As for the RMG, I'm confident that with the first expansion or even before that, we will get one. Erwan hinted to it in a recent interview.

But I'm very pessimistic when it comes to Town Screens. I don't suppose they will change it from windows to full screen, unless our recent rioting would spread to facebook. :P

But oh well, if that's the only downside of the game then so be it. The good outweigh the bad by far. I can live with it but that doesn't mean I will let them get away with it either. I'm gonna be posting and posting about how much I dislike it, until H7 comes out with full screen towns! :P

Dark-Whisperer
03-08-2011, 01:02 PM
I just don't understand whats the benefit of windowed mode?

It wont load faster because there is virtually no loading time for 2D fullscreen towns unless you have very old machine that will slow down entire game anyway. Preloaded windows will be more memory intensive then normal town screens as far as I know.

It wont be more functional just because its in smaller window, its quite the opposite.

It wont look better, more detailed or have easier interaction with player because its in smaller window.

People seam to like recruitment screen for easy transfer of creatures between town and hero but same thing can be made with full screen, or there could be some quick screen for transfer.

All the thing that can be done in small window can be done in full screen but better, equally fast and more functional. There is absolutely no down side of full screen, and it was most natural thing to do. Majority of people prefer detailed, atmospheric, interactive, full screen towns.

I understood that windowed screens are made to speed up game, but as Cepheus said thats just in theory. So iconic town screens are removed for the sake of experiment... and experiment to speed up TURN based strategy where your opponent has unlimited time to make his move anyway. And at the end this way wont even speed up the game - it will just look uglier.

WaterPoloLaw
03-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Personally, I think I can see the benefit of windowed mode and I am becoming more accustomed to the idea. I think if done right and organized properly, I could see how it could help speed up the game by never having to navigate away from the adventure map. I could also see it potentially interacting in some way with the adventure map so that it speeds up the process when having more than one town, at least potentially.

But, I also agree there should be a way to see the town in full screen (or near full screen) so the player can enjoy the full effect of seeing his building and development efforts. Dark-Whisperer is right in that epic town scenes set to classical music does offer a sense of immersion that could be lacking without a full screen option.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
03-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by KingImp:
If I am wrong, then I apologize, but I find it hard to believe that originally they were planning on giving us nothing as Xenofex said, but then decided all of a sudden to add these town windows on their own. More than likely it was from some prodding that they decided to break down and put more work into it. Kinda like the battlefield size of H5.

No, actual town screens were in the plan from the outset. Simply put, they haven't finished them yet. The ones you saw in those pics posted earlier in this thread were place-holder images. In fact they've since modified that place-holder with another place-holder with more options on it. But it's STILL not the town screen. Nobody has seen it yet because it's not finished. People need to take a step back, take a breath, and calm down. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not being made. Black Hole & Ubi both know what we want as fans. Trust me, we'll get a town screen.

KingImp
03-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KingImp:
If I am wrong, then I apologize, but I find it hard to believe that originally they were planning on giving us nothing as Xenofex said, but then decided all of a sudden to add these town windows on their own. More than likely it was from some prodding that they decided to break down and put more work into it. Kinda like the battlefield size of H5.

No, actual town screens were in the plan from the outset. Simply put, they haven't finished them yet. The ones you saw in those pics posted earlier in this thread were place-holder images. In fact they've since modified that place-holder with another place-holder with more options on it. But it's STILL not the town screen. Nobody has seen it yet because it's not finished. People need to take a step back, take a breath, and calm down. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not being made. Black Hole & Ubi both know what we want as fans. Trust me, we'll get a town screen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for this Chuckles. That's the most encouraging news on this whole thing that we've had.

I would be remiss though if I didn't ask how long will this push the game back though. This is something that should have been planned and done a while ago and to now hear they are still working on it doesn't bode well for a release in the next couple of months. I'm sorry, and I readily admit I am a very impatient person, but I am not okay with having to wait until the end of the year for this game. I resigned myself to the fact that March wasn't going to happen, but if this takes longer than June to put out because they misjudged the amount of work they had to do, then I won't be happy.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
03-08-2011, 03:26 PM
Well, if you think about it, the actual town screen itself is a very separate entity. There's no balancing to implement, no real testing to worry about (other than small things that are quick and easy to test). So doing it near the end of development really isn't that big of a deal. It seemed odd to me (as I'm sure it does to you too) but after I thought about it, it did make sense. As a town gets more developed they link it to the adventure map town image and update the town image to correspond to how developed the town is, and so on and so forth. Getting the game mechanics working smoothly is obviously more important than the window dressing of a town screen. Just rest assured that we'll have one and that something as small as that won't delay a release. That's not to say that OTHER THINGS can't. We've all seen how beta tests work. If things go smoothly, great. If not, possible delays. Only time will tell. But for now, I'm fairly certain they're still "planning" on keeping the same schedule. But it's still too early to really worry about it much. For an impatient man you're gonna hate this...but be patient. :O)

Dark-Whisperer
03-30-2011, 01:20 PM
Town screen petition has started at Heroes Community. Visit this link to voice your opinion:
http://heroescommunity.com/vie...D=34984&pagenumber=1 (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=34984&pagenumber=1)

Asterisk
03-31-2011, 07:11 AM
Town screens will come as an add-on. $19.99 from Steam. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

dchalfont
03-31-2011, 07:55 AM
Enough with the tin-foil hats. Clearly the town window had progressed from a screenshot to a fully animated 2d town screen as seen in the Igromir video so there is clearly a town screen in development or finalized. People spreading these 'no town screen' rumours need to stop. There is a 2d animated town screen and 3d represented bases on the adventure map. I think it's an awesome idea and I'm sure they will be in the final game.

P.s the animation of the town is non interactive, it is an artistic representation of the town with buttons etc to click the upgrades. I don't know if changes are added to the animated image or if it stays the same, regardless........there is still a town window and it looks awesome. Google for the Igrnomir video and you will find it it's about 140mb.

WaterPoloLaw
03-31-2011, 09:44 AM
No, actual town screens were in the plan from the outset. Simply put, they haven't finished them yet. The ones you saw in those pics posted earlier in this thread were place-holder images. In fact they've since modified that place-holder with another place-holder with more options on it. But it's STILL not the town screen. Nobody has seen it yet because it's not finished. People need to take a step back, take a breath, and calm down. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not being made. Black Hole & Ubi both know what we want as fans. Trust me, we'll get a town screen.

I am going to go with the above quote from Chuckles until I see something that isn't a pre-alpha screen shot from over a year ago to the contrary.

By the way people, it does make a lot of sense that they would develop the town screens LAST. There is really nothing to test with a town screen. It is an animation, a graphic. It plays no role to the game other than it is visually appealing. Hence, I could see why you would develop that last just prior to the open beta.

Nalafein
03-31-2011, 11:18 AM
As waterpololaw said, its understandable that they do this last, its not the outmost importance of the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

najmul88
04-01-2011, 10:12 AM
Sorry i didnt read through the whole thread but, damn no twon screens???

After all the debates between both side about 2d/3d looks like we both lose D:

Hmm i read somewhere town screens may differ from town windows?

I can understand having a town winow for quick unit production be viable, but for building dwelling etc, and other town features, like tavern, mage guild screen, town info etc, surely that has to be on a full town screen, i cant picture that all being done on a simple small window, that would be bad :/

The whole point of havin a town screen now, is that we have such killer high res awesome monitors capable of seeing ultimate quality paintings/3d w/e you cant just drop it down to a window.

I dont mind the window, ormaybe mutliplayer where speed and efficiency is the key windows would be better, but there ahs to be som tgle feature or full screen mode. Hell i know for a fact i wouldnt half get into the town music/theme if i could see the adventure screen at the same time. The whole atmosphere will b lost :O

Shawn85
04-01-2011, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by najmul88:
Sorry i didnt read through the whole thread but, damn no twon screens???

After all the debates between both side about 2d/3d looks like we both lose D:

Hmm i read somewhere town screens may differ from town windows?

I can understand having a town winow for quick unit production be viable, but for building dwelling etc, and other town features, like tavern, mage guild screen, town info etc, surely that has to be on a full town screen, i cant picture that all being done on a simple small window, that would be bad :/

The whole point of havin a town screen now, is that we have such killer high res awesome monitors capable of seeing ultimate quality paintings/3d w/e you cant just drop it down to a window.

I dont mind the window, ormaybe mutliplayer where speed and efficiency is the key windows would be better, but there ahs to be som tgle feature or full screen mode. Hell i know for a fact i wouldnt half get into the town music/theme if i could see the adventure screen at the same time. The whole atmosphere will b lost :O

this

znork
04-03-2011, 02:17 AM
First of all the town screen that has been shown are place holders, they are not the fhinished product. As chuck has pointed out.

When it comes to full screen or just a town window. I belive that reinvetion of homm user interface after 15 years might lead to somthing good.

For the record on this point i trust the developers to have read all youre posts and they will think of somthing good. Its their jobhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DSandman123
04-03-2011, 09:36 AM
This post is a vent only if what has been said about removal/reduction of full town screens is true. Which considering the amount of info (or the lack of info) on the mattter seems to be the case.

As a heroes fan from h1 (even enjoyed h4) I can say that if towns screens are removed or reduced in this game, I will probably not be playing h6.

This new trend in gaming, where the motto is - hey. lets change our franchise to appeal to more people - is ruining games (ex. Dragon Age 2). The removal/reduction of full town screens from the game would take away from what makes heroes heroes.

By the 6th game you make a game for the fans, not to get new players, why change it.

The removal of resources was what bothered me the most so far, but the removal/reduction of town screens is just plain wrong.

GamerGeek87
04-03-2011, 09:58 AM
I really hope there are fullscreen windows, it would change the feel of the game for me. I realize its something that seems odd, its just a window/screen. Im not gonna go as far as to say I wont play unless there are fullscreen windows, itll be an awsome game but this is a simple matter and having an option to let you have windowed or fullscreen seems to me like a good sulotion. This would be the first thing I dont like about the development(if its true) so far, except for some minor creature designs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Dark-Whisperer
04-03-2011, 10:16 AM
Vast majority of fans are dissatisfied, to say at least, with windowed solution.
Placeholders were shown at Gamescom in Cologne in middle August 2010. Since then we have absolutely no information about it except confirmations from insiders and few interviews about size and strong indications that windows will be much less interactive or totally non-interactive.
UBI's representatives didn't bother to even show up on official forum to say few words of encouragement, little less to post a screenshot, considering how much controversy this topic raised.
Heroes 3, 4 and 5 each had different interfaces that people liked or not, but this is the first time that massive majority of people thinks that this is not the right way to go. I just hope that developer's stubbornness will not lead to labeling Heroes VI as game that could be good but town windows spoiled the atmosphere and ultimately ruined the game.

DSandman123
04-03-2011, 11:44 AM
I don't think there was really a need for complex 3D town screens in H6 to begin with; 2D or somewhere in between, with a few animations would have been more than fine, especially since it will resonate with fans of h3.

When I first heard there will be 2D town screens instead of 3D, I actually thought it might be a good change. But why make them windowed and non-interactive? The 1 second load time (probably less if 2D) is not a rational excuse by any means.

City building was one of THE major parts in any heroes game. I'm not even sure how reducing/removing the element is a positive change.

Also, I will bring Disciples 3 into this discussion (focus specific on town screens), because it is probably one of the only recent games similar to heroes out there.
Comparing the city screens from D3 with the "window screen" offered in H6, should leave any fan of the series thinking.

D3 city screen flythrough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...CJ_A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuu-WqtCJ_A&feature=related)

znork
04-03-2011, 11:46 AM
There is no news on the town screen darkwisper. You know all the info that is out there. Town screens are one of the last things they have planed to make.

So basacly trust black hole to do the right thing.

Dark-Whisperer
04-05-2011, 01:10 AM
This quote is taken from spanish fan site Torre de Marfil. Whole article is at this link:
http://www.heroesofmightandmag...es&article=10&page=6 (http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.es/portal/index.php?module=HeroesVI&func=viewarticles&article=10&page=6)


Thus, maybe youíve already realized that there were not so many options in the city interface, which, as usual, lacks too much. And not only because it is not intuitive, but also for being windowed like, contradictory in regards to the classic experience of old games. It is not a very logical thing to return to the 2D interface in order to avoid delays when entering cities, and finally make it through a window instead of full screen. In one hand, that kills a little the game immersion, and in the other it creates an unnecessary sense of embarrassment regarding the Adventure Map, which remained visible behind the interface. In spite of this, I hope and trust that these aspects, as I stated earlier, still has some work left to do. But going back to the building options, as I said, they were limited to the Core creatures dwellings, city fortifications and defenses, the typical marketplace and tavern, and finally to a series of buildings designed to support the faction racial skill. And all of this was organized in a similar way to the heroes interface, which means levels or power steps defined by rows. Unfortunately, the limitation of available buildings with the help of the awful interface do not allow a clear glimpse of what was the factor which trigger the city leveling up, so whether improving defenses or whether raising the administrative city level (Town Hall, City Hall, etc), or maybe both.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.es/portal/h/articulos/h6/Avance/6/minis/28_Niveles_Ciudad.jpg (http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.es/portal/index.php?module=Multimedia&imagen=h/articulos/h6/Avance/6/28_Niveles_Ciudad.jpg)

So there we go...

znork
04-05-2011, 01:26 AM
This if from the review of the budapest trip. The town screen interface was not fhinished.

alficon
04-05-2011, 06:42 AM
Nothing of what i read so far, and i read a lot about this game, points to there being no interactive town screen. Everything is based on rumors, second hand information, outraged fans of homm3 who like to be dramatic, etc. I just won't believe there will be no town screen until i hear it from someone at Ubi/Blackhole, in an official channel. If we don't see town screen yet, it's likely not ready. But yes, if the town screen is just a non-interactive game window, i would be pretty ****ed.

Mugoof
04-05-2011, 07:36 AM
The graphic on the screenie looks ***** i hope thats very low settings...

znork
04-05-2011, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Mugoof:
The graphic on the screenie looks ***** i hope thats very low settings...

Who cars? the game needs to be fun to paly it could be 2d pixsales after my tast

Mugoof
04-05-2011, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by znork:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mugoof:
The graphic on the screenie looks ***** i hope thats very low settings...

Who cars? the game needs to be fun to paly it could be 2d pixsales after my tast </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True i play 2D games...! Heroes 3 best game EVER... i still play it occasional to this date, but the case is they didn't have access to such graphic back then, now they have i only Graphic as a +++, gameplay comes first but when u got the possibility to make the game look more imersive & more beautiful and in depth they should do it!

znork
04-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Well in this gamplay is all, graphics has given nothing to it. So graphics would be less important then how nice icon for starting the game is.

tikreet
04-05-2011, 10:47 AM
if there's no full town screen in the game , im out ,, i won't buy heroes , please dont do this mistake ubi

Mugoof
04-05-2011, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by znork:
Well in this gamplay is all, graphics has given nothing to it. So graphics would be less important then how nice icon for starting the game is.

Then why will you buy it?.. Graphic is always nice to have in a game in my opnion, why don't you just continue to play H3 or bellow & download mods for it? there is 1000s now.. then u have your good old nostalgi feel to it aswell! if u don't care about graphic cause i can guarantee you this game will not have better Game-play then H3! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Crofty88
04-05-2011, 11:01 PM
I think like half the posters here have mentioned, is to just wait and see how it all unfolds... Have faith in the fact Ubihole know what they are doing.

Until screenshots of the town window/town screen are released (not old outdated pics)- its really pointless to go assuming and thinking the worst of what black hole and ubisoft are doing with heroes 6.

This will be a sweet game , whatever the end product is - and if in the end the town screen/window is halved or smaller then in previous games - what does it really matter!!? Ubihole know what they are doing, so if its small town windows, then im sure it will work well, and look great!!

Cant wait.

Xenofex_086
04-06-2011, 02:23 AM
Have faith in the fact Ubihole know what they are doing. Faith? OK, sure, why not. Fact??? What the hell?!!

znork
04-06-2011, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Have faith in the fact Ubihole know what they are doing. Faith? OK, sure, why not. Fact??? What the hell?!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you have no fackts so all you got is faith

Xenofex_086
04-06-2011, 06:10 AM
That's my point.

znork
04-06-2011, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
That's my point.

Then show faithhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Crofty88
04-06-2011, 06:46 AM
All im tryin to say is to trust in them to do a good job - im sure they will...

... they didnt come down in the last shower - theres no doubt in my mind that the devs thought heavily into whether or not the town screen/window should be as it has been in past heroes games.

Im not saying I completely LIKE the idea of a small town window, but if it does turn out that way, we should all atleast give it a chance!

Xenofex_086
04-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Then show faithhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif After they show facts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KingImp
04-06-2011, 08:15 AM
One thing is for certain, in exactly 2 weeks we will all know what the town screen truly looks like and how it works. Of course, when it ends up being as bad as a lot of people are expecting it to be, there will still be some who say it's still not finished. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

znork
04-06-2011, 08:41 AM
at xenofex_086: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

and kinImp: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

KingImp
04-06-2011, 09:19 AM
Come on znork, you know it's true.

To be honest though, it would be a valid argument because if I recall correctly, when the H5 beta came out, it still had an older version of the town and hiring screen. At least it did during the closed beta. I don't remember if it was finished by the time the open beta rolled around.

znork
04-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by KingImp:
Come on znork, you know it's true.

To be honest though, it would be a valid argument because if I recall correctly, when the H5 beta came out, it still had an older version of the town and hiring screen. At least it did during the closed beta. I don't remember if it was finished by the time the open beta rolled around.

Hey cant i have litte fun? and you are right kingimp. The h5 was totaly diffrant on alot of things from the beta to the realse.

Cap292
04-06-2011, 09:28 AM
Not having a proper town screen would be a huge mistake. If Black Hole are fans of this game this wouldn't have needed to be thought about, just done. Did you guys see the Budapest Demo Review post, with the Haven Town Town Window. It had better change by final game release or even hopefully open beta. It isn't like creating a town screen is an excruciatingly difficult task.

alficon
04-07-2011, 06:45 AM
I agree with Cap292. Creating town screens would involve minimal production costs (i think) and it would greatly help with the immersion in the game world. 2D/2.5D/3D doesn't matter at this point, i would just like them to be there.

Asterisk
04-07-2011, 06:58 AM
I for once could care less for town screens. They get unnoticeable with time. I take a great, involving story, huge, long-hours-play maps and thought out balance over the town screens any time of the day.

GoranXII
04-07-2011, 07:36 PM
And I'd take a detailed, beautiful full-screen town screen over some half-assed story any day of the week.

KingImp
04-08-2011, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
And I'd take a detailed, beautiful full-screen town screen over some half-assed story any day of the week.

Same here. I've never once cared about the storyline in a Heroes game. Hell, I've never even completed a campaign in Heroes, that's how little I cared about the story.

leeboy26
04-08-2011, 08:23 AM
I want to be able to open the town screen unexpectedly and catch the units unawares so like angels and sisters are making out and crossbowmen are smoking weed and stuff. That would be so awesome.

Asterisk
04-08-2011, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
And I'd take a detailed, beautiful full-screen town screen over some half-assed story any day of the week.

You don't make any sense. Everyone would like that. Even me.


Originally posted by KingImp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoranXII:
And I'd take a detailed, beautiful full-screen town screen over some half-assed story any day of the week.

Same here. I've never once cared about the storyline in a Heroes game. Hell, I've never even completed a campaign in Heroes, that's how little I cared about the story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could care less for town screens. If anything, they only hindered my gameplay. It wasn't the most convenient interface to hire units and that's the most thing I used my town screens for. Yeah they are nice, cool and neat to look at... for the first 10 minutes of gameplay, then it's just an inconvenient GUI. I vote for Hire All button on the town window.

Asterisk
04-08-2011, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by leeboy26:
I want to be able to open the town screen unexpectedly and catch the units unawares so like angels and sisters are making out and crossbowmen are smoking weed and stuff. That would be so awesome.

LMAO!

Ro.Floro
04-08-2011, 10:27 AM
Looks like this part of the forum is a little off course(with the minds, I say)....You would like a game without srotyline or with a ****ty one after heroes 5 over a town screen...it isn't even your chioce, man...so you're just talking nonsense...they're doing what they have to do, and that's that...I don't think any ofthe devs visit the forums...so...

Dark-Whisperer
04-08-2011, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
I for once could care less for town screens. They get unnoticeable with time. I take a great, involving story, huge, long-hours-play maps and thought out balance over the town screens any time of the day.

You are talking like we cant have beautiful, functional, full screen town screens and all the things that you said. This isn't "one thing or another" type of situation. And if GUI and town screens managed to hinder your gameplay in TBS... well I wander how do you manage RTS or FPS then... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And another thing - entering town screen for 100th time is as boring as fighting 100th battle, basically you will do the same thing as 70 times before again and win, in facts it takes less time to enter town do what you need to do and exit then to fight another battle that you are 100% sure you will win with zero losses, so ... lets cut battles from the game because it gets boring after some time...

Asterisk
04-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Wrong. That IS one thing or another for developers. If you wanna know why - learn how dead lines work in business. In the gaming business developers most of the cases just do not have enough time for everything. So it comes to choosing the priorities. And usually gameplay priorities win. So I advise everyone not to expect Town screens and get over town windows ASAP. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RTS and FPS don't have town screens, so I manage just fine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dark-Whisperer
04-08-2011, 01:50 PM
So what are you telling us is that you expect flawed product and that you are willing to give money for it...
Its like you are buying a car with no windows and without any paint because people who make cars couldn't finish it in time. And its its ok as long as you can drive it from point A to point B safely.
Computer game is a product for market. I don't want to see baked mouse in my bread, snail in my salad or banana cake without banana any more then I want to see town windows in my Heroes.

Asterisk
04-08-2011, 03:25 PM
How in the world is H6 flawed if they have Town window instead of something else that you want? By your logic the game is actually a total sh!t, 'cause there's no Sylvan, Academy, 4 resources instead of 7, etc. Dude, you're not making any sense.

If Town window stops you from buying the game - don't buy it. Simple as that.

Cap292
04-08-2011, 03:28 PM
As I said before, creating a town screen shouldn't be a crazy difficult task. When they went into making this game that should have been one of the main things on their minds. Asterisk maybe your preference is to play without a town screen, but the majority of people love them and would, or will be very upset without them.

alficon
04-08-2011, 04:06 PM
Wrong. That IS one thing or another for developers. If you wanna know why - learn how dead lines work in business. In the gaming business developers most of the cases just do not have enough time for everything.

Wrong as well. They have different teams working on different aspects of the game. Storyline and 2D Art are 2 different departments. And it's not like at this stage they need to do a lot of gameplay changes anyway. So ye, those 2 aspects mentioned earlier are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn't like this game to lose such an important aspect present in all previous games as the town screen since my guess is implementing it wouldn't take too long.

Dark-Whisperer
04-08-2011, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
How in the world is H6 flawed if they have Town window instead of something else that you want? By your logic the game is actually a total sh!t, 'cause there's no Sylvan, Academy, 4 resources instead of 7, etc. Dude, you're not making any sense.

If Town window stops you from buying the game - don't buy it. Simple as that.

How did you gather from my post that I said Heroes will be total s*** is beyond me. I said it will be flawed without no town screens and that "no time" excuse is one of most idiotic excuses anyone can come up with.
Tell me one situation where that excuse can actually be accepted?
And yes,Heroes without proper Town Screen is flawed product.

Thunion
04-08-2011, 11:32 PM
If Town window stops you from buying the game - don't buy it. Simple as that.
No town screens-We dont like it-we dont buy it-Developers not get money-No one happy.Simple as that.

Asterisk
04-09-2011, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by alficon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Wrong. That IS one thing or another for developers. If you wanna know why - learn how dead lines work in business. In the gaming business developers most of the cases just do not have enough time for everything.

Wrong as well. They have different teams working on different aspects of the game. Storyline and 2D Art are 2 different departments. And it's not like at this stage they need to do a lot of gameplay changes anyway. So ye, those 2 aspects mentioned earlier are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn't like this game to lose such an important aspect present in all previous games as the town screen since my guess is implementing it wouldn't take too long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, look at their company job list. They are hiring for 4 positions. One of them is GRAPHIC PROGRAMMER. They simply don't have resources to do your stupid Town Screen. That's why it's not there in the first place. I bet you they even outsourced some of H6 stuff.

Dark-Whisperer
04-09-2011, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
Dude, look at their company job list. They are hiring for 4 positions. One of them is GRAPHIC PROGRAMMER. They simply don't have resources to do your stupid Town Screen. That's why it's not there in the first place. I bet you they even outsourced some of H6 stuff.

Wooooow... you are actually saying that Black Hole was over its head to begin with. So developers that outsourced parts of the game, cornered themselves with lack of manpower and lack of time to the point that they cannot deliver decent town screen. And after all you said you still believe that heroes can be good game?
If they are having trouble with something as easy to make as town screen what do you think they will do with AI or balancing?
You managed to insult developers, game and fans and make yourself look like a fool in single post. Gratz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

znork
04-09-2011, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:

Dude, look at their company job list. They are hiring for 4 positions. One of them is GRAPHIC PROGRAMMER. They simply don't have resources to do your stupid Town Screen. That's why it's not there in the first place. I bet you they even outsourced some of H6 stuff.

Well offcoucse they outsourced a lot off stuff. Thye have like 50-100 people working there and hiering 4 more people is nothing.

And they are working on town screens!!!

Dark-Whisperer
04-09-2011, 10:18 AM
No Znork, as far as we know they are working on town windows - thats major difference and source of all this conundrum.

Asterisk
04-09-2011, 10:46 AM
^ Are/were you in any kind of business for a considerable amount of time?

Sorceresss
04-09-2011, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by KingImp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoranXII:
And I'd take a detailed, beautiful full-screen town screen over some half-assed story any day of the week.

Same here. I've never once cared about the storyline in a Heroes game. Hell, I've never even completed a campaign in Heroes, that's how little I cared about the story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here ... and I have been playing the HM&M series since December 1995.

leeboy26
04-10-2011, 04:33 PM
Same here ... and I have been playing the HM&M series since December 1995.

Wow dude you should call ******ss or something.

Asterisk
04-10-2011, 07:06 PM
^ lol. I started around that time too. Heroes 1 was my first PC game I've ever fell in love with.

Dark-Whisperer
04-10-2011, 11:54 PM
To confirm all our worries:

CH: 10. How far along is the town screen, and will it be animated?

Marzhin: "We know there is a lot of confusion and worry in the community on this subject. Here is all I can tell you about the current town screens at this point:
The town screen is actually a town window. It is designed to remain the same size whatever your screen resolution is, even if you use a 16:9 monitor.
The town visuals will be animated and are what could be described as "2.5D".
Each town has its own musical theme (as usual).
The town visuals change when you build stuff (although in the current design, not all buildings appear).
Building and recruiting is done through the window interface, rather than clicking on the buildings directly."

Directly from Julien Pirou AKA Marzhin interview.
Whole thing is here:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=774

So, window itself will not be interactive (all building and recruiting done through menu) and not all buildings will be visible on representation of town screen when you build them. Its disaster. Even worse then I thought. So much for developers "worrying " about fans opinion.
So, Znork what do you have to say now?

alficon
04-11-2011, 05:26 AM
Here is all I can tell you about the current town screens at this point:

At this point. This doesn't mean this will stay the same until the release of the game. It better not, since i don't think it's a satisfying solution. I'm not at all pleased with the current state of the town window, but again, it's just the current state, not the definitive state.

DSandman123
04-11-2011, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by Dark-Whisperer:
To confirm all our worries:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">CH: 10. How far along is the town screen, and will it be animated?

Marzhin: "We know there is a lot of confusion and worry in the community on this subject. Here is all I can tell you about the current town screens at this point:
The town screen is actually a town window. It is designed to remain the same size whatever your screen resolution is, even if you use a 16:9 monitor.
The town visuals will be animated and are what could be described as "2.5D".
Each town has its own musical theme (as usual).
The town visuals change when you build stuff (although in the current design, not all buildings appear).
Building and recruiting is done through the window interface, rather than clicking on the buildings directly."

Directly from Julien Pirou AKA Marzhin interview.
Whole thing is here:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=774

So, window itself will not be interactive (all building and recruiting done through menu) and not all buildings will be visible on representation of town screen when you build them. Its disaster. Even worse then I thought. So much for developers "worrying " about fans opinion.
So, Znork what do you have to say now? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there goes the Heroes series.
Oh well, there will always be 3,4,5 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Asterisk
04-11-2011, 05:56 AM
I wouldn't count on Town Screens. Not until before the expansions come out.

I think I've got a solution for y'all though. Just set your screen resolution to 1024x768 and you get your Town Screen. Besides that, it'll help with units in battle. Right now at 1080p they look like little ants and flies, barely distinguishable from one another. So much for units high level of detail...

Ro.Floro
04-11-2011, 07:05 AM
I said in an earlier post that the developpers would not take in consideration our worries and objections...me and Dark-Whisperer...looks like we were right...

Dark-Whisperer
04-11-2011, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
I wouldn't count on Town Screens. Not until before the expansions come out.

I think I've got a solution for y'all though. Just set your screen resolution to 1024x768 and you get your Town Screen. Besides that, it'll help with units in battle. Right now at 1080p they look like little ants and flies, barely distinguishable from one another. So much for units high level of detail...

Hahahaha, true, true... At low res we can get proper full screen town screen AND closeup of creatures so we can appreciate details on it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nice one I must admit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Crofty88
04-11-2011, 07:37 AM
This is so dissapointing. Why on earth would they choose to go down this path with towns?? - is beyond me... I hope it works out better than we all expect... And if not... They change it pronto!

GamerGeek87
04-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
I wouldn't count on Town Screens. Not until before the expansions come out.

I think I've got a solution for y'all though. Just set your screen resolution to 1024x768 and you get your Town Screen. Besides that, it'll help with units in battle. Right now at 1080p they look like little ants and flies, barely distinguishable from one another. So much for units high level of detail...

While town window size would increase with lower resolution, it wouldnt affect the zoom level on the rest of the game it would just look like crap. Im pretty sure you can zoom in anyway.

Also we shouldnt assume there will be no fullscreen town windows. But as the subject has come up we should make it clear that most of us WANT them fullscreen.

Edit: I just read the interview and I am sad there will be no fullscreen. Its a simple thing and it changes the game in a bad way IMO. Im hoping after playing the game for a while it wont bother me much.

znork
04-11-2011, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Dark-Whisperer:
Even worse then I thought. So much for developers "worrying " about fans opinion.
So, Znork what do you have to say now?

Well its not all i hoped for but im not shure how important it is if the it can speed up the game play. Its not that they are not listing to you they might just disagree withe you.

leeboy26
04-11-2011, 05:01 PM
I feel like I did when Michael Bay made the Transformers movies; like being bent over a sofa and taken roughly from behind whilst having YOUR.CHILDHOOD.IS.HEREBY.RUINED shouted in my ear with every painful thrust.

Or I suppose I could just get over it.

KingImp
04-11-2011, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by znork:
Well its not all i hoped for but im not shure how important it is if the it can speed up the game play. Its not that they are not listing to you they might just disagree withe you.

That's the problem some of us have. It didn't slow down gameplay at all and even if someone did think that it did, then so what. This isn't a game meant to be played like an FPS. It's meant to take your time and strategize.

I don't think in all my years of playing Heroes, I've ever heard one person complain that town building or going into the towns took too long. I'm sorry, but this is just UbiHole blowing smoke up our asses because they don't fully appreciate or understand what Heroes is truly about.

Rei-V
04-12-2011, 03:34 AM
This has been one of the most disappointing things to hear about with this game.

I agree with KingImp, speed of gameplay was never an issue with regards to the town screen. Even in 5 it didn't get in the way of making the decisions you wanted to make.

Removing/changing it in the way they have, it really does show more than anything, how out of touch these developers or decision makers are from the real HoMM community.

leeboy26
04-12-2011, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Rei-V:
This has been one of the most disappointing things to hear about with this game.

I agree with KingImp, speed of gameplay was never an issue with regards to the town screen. Even in 5 it didn't get in the way of making the decisions you wanted to make.

Removing/changing it in the way they have, it really does show more than anything, how out of touch these developers or decision makers are from the real HoMM community.

It seems to have been done to appease the darkest demon of all that PC gamers are incessently assailed by- 'Streamlining'. Generally it's done to improve 'accessibility' and other meaningless buzzwords. Really though they just want to emphasise the combat to get younger players interested who generally have the attention-span of a hyperactive gnat and say things like 'Dude, that's like, totally awesome'. It increases sales though, so there's little we can do except choke it down (and worst of all it's perfectly understandable).

By changing the pace of the game they make it something it isn't. Strategy games were usually the preserve of a fairly selective audience but in order to sell more developers just dumb it down, it's like saying scrabble isn't interesting enough so we're putting in elements of Russian Roulette.

RTS games all seem to want to be an assualt on a heavily-fortified position. HoMM isn't that it's a walk in the country on a Sunday afternoon. Thank god it's still a TBS.

This is all supposition of course but this is the direction PC games have taken. I hope BHG haven't taken this route, but the *shudder* 'streamlining' of unit recruitment and buildings and the reduced resources does make you wonder.

wodahsa
04-12-2011, 06:13 AM
I've been reading this thread for some time now and finally decided to say what I think about it.
Firstly I must say that I am neither on this side nor the other.

I wanted to express my understanding for the developers. I think I know what they trying to do. As some of you said it's to speed up gameplay so more people will be interested in the game. And I have absolutely no problem with that.

I know that town screens were nice - but it was not a core of the game; for me it is OK if they are not there in the form we are used to.
If the thing that developers are doing will improve gameplay, make it faster and the game will be enjoyable for more people (so we can play online for a lot of time after release) then I have no complains about the change.

It would be amazing if the game will get as good support as Blizzard games and all necessary balance changes will be patched often, as well as adding some additional features. I really hope that Ubihole wants to raise Heroes franchise to the level of Blizzard games.

Regards to all

NachoAdept
04-12-2011, 06:32 AM
The town screen were about immersion into the game. Many comments on the youbute videos were about how players would just sit in and enjoy the town screens and how different ones were their favorites for whatever reason.

My favorite always seemed to be the Sylvan towns with the music.

I can understand the frustration with the omitting of the full sized screen.

R,
Nacho

Dark-Whisperer
04-12-2011, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by wodahsa:
I wanted to express my understanding for the developers. I think I know what they trying to do. As some of you said it's to speed up gameplay so more people will be interested in the game. And I have absolutely no problem with that.

I know that town screens were nice - but it was not a core of the game; for me it is OK if they are not there in the form we are used to.
If the thing that developers are doing will improve gameplay, make it faster and the game will be enjoyable for more people (so we can play online for a lot of time after release) then I have no complains about the change.


I have no problem with changing some of gameplay elements to make game more interesting and to avoid "copy" feel of previous parts of series.
Less resources, 3 tier creatures, skill and magic acquisition and area of control didn't make nearly this much noise.
But there are some things within a game that makes it what you know and like and one of those things are beautiful, detailed, interactive town screens. Its not game breaking in gameplay sense but its devastating in sense of tradition, immersion and connection to the rest of the Heroes family.

And I don't know what makes you think that town window will draw more audience to the game then dramatic, powerful, detailed, colorful, architecturally rich and interactive representation of YOUR town.

Destruction3402
04-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Fever_K:
In my opinion, town windows would be an horrible mistake. I really like the game for what I've seen until now (just to point out that I'm not a regular hater), but this change would be a disaster!

Town screens (both 2D and 3D) have always been part of the game, and for a good reason!
It's great to see your city growing, full screen and with music on.
The screens grant a feeling and a particular atmosphere to each faction.
I can't really imagine Romero's music playing while looking at a town window on the adventure map!

Cities are an important part of Heroes and cannot be reduced to a 300 pixels window as if they were minor feature!

Please, change your mind about this matter: it's not too late to at least separate the towns from the adventure map..!
THIS!!
I can't imagine a Heroes game without any town screens. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif
I will be REALLY upset if town screens are replaced by tasteless town windows.
Town screens are one of the biggest factors that made HOMM3 such a majestic, brilliant and enjoyable experience!

I sometimes spend several minutes just looking at the town screen and listening to the music while playing HOMM2, HOMM3 and HOMM5!

I always saw the town screens of HOMM as works of art!

Until I know for certain, I will cross my fingers and rub my lucky penny for town screens to appear in HOMM6!

Asterisk
04-12-2011, 08:45 AM
Somebody is clearly overreacting...
Town windows will be just fine.

I'd rather not have town windows/screens at all.
I'd have all the structures appear on adventure map and when you zoom into a town - music changes, ambient sound and town animations start and buildings become interactive for units enlisting, ect.

That's totally doable, but it would require even more resources than Town Screens, so we have Town Windows and that's the end of it for now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Destruction3402
04-12-2011, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
Somebody is clearly overreacting...
Town windows will be just fine.

I'd rather not have town windows/screens at all.
I'd have all the structures appear on adventure map and when you zoom into a town - music changes, ambient sound and town animations start and buildings become interactive for units enlisting, ect.

That's totally doable, but it would require even more resources than Town Screens, so we have Town Windows and that's the end of it for now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Not everyone has the same admiration of art.
I mean, I really can't blame you and I respect your opinion, but for me town screens are essential in HOMM.

For me, the graphics design and music is the most essential features of the HOMM-series.

Taking a look at the new town screens maybe is the part about HOMM6 I'm looking forward to the most (alongside listening to the music).

Ro.Floro
04-12-2011, 10:25 AM
Non-interactive town windows?
GOOD JOB Ubiholes!!!
the game will still be played, I'm sure of that...but not with the same pleasure....I hope, because that's the only thing we have...hope they won't ruin the whole game with yet another stupidity...who knows what they think of next :|
Maybe during the beta testing the players will signal the "problem" we're discusing and the Ubiholes will do something about it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

GoranXII
04-12-2011, 03:01 PM
I have no problem with changing some of gameplay elements to make game more interesting and to avoid "copy" feel of previous parts of series. It's a sequel, WTF do you want, a sci-fi?

DSandman123
04-12-2011, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
Somebody is clearly overreacting...
Town windows will be just fine.

I'd rather not have town windows/screens at all.
I'd have all the structures appear on adventure map and when you zoom into a town - music changes, ambient sound and town animations start and buildings become interactive for units enlisting, ect.

That's totally doable, but it would require even more resources than Town Screens, so we have Town Windows and that's the end of it for now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maybe heroes is not the game for you then. RTS games are that way --->, or try civ/total war games.

rant inc:

After the heated 2d vs 3d town screen debate post, I'm not sure how the developers decided on town windows? Town building was what made heroes heroes, and the way it was implemented was what set it apart from other games.

The fact that with less than 2 months before release, they have not even shown 1 ss or art piece on how the final "town windows" will look like is worrying.

It's sad that the community for this game is too small to make enough noise to divert this direction.

The reduction in resource types, and taking away the ability to physically take mines already takes away from the "heroes" feel of the game. This just makes it worse. Hopefully they will learn from these mistakes and H7 will stay faithful to the franchise.

Asterisk
04-12-2011, 03:55 PM
^ Getting XP for your heroes, collecting artifacts, choosing your battles, battles and exploring made Heroes Heroes. Not your stupid town building. Town building was/is relevant for the first 30 turns until you get your black dragons.

I love Civ V. It's a great game. Different than Civ 4, but equally great.

DSandman123
04-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
^ Getting XP for your heroes, collecting artifacts, choosing your battles, battles and exploring made Heroes Heroes. Not your stupid town building. Town building was/is relevant for the first 30 turns until you get your black dragons.

I love Civ V. It's a great game. Different than Civ 4, but equally great.

Yes, for you. Was it necessary to throw insults? You made your point, now leave the thread please unless you have something constructive to add in a more civil matter.

GoranXII
04-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
^ Getting XP for your heroes, collecting artifacts, choosing your battles, battles and exploring made Heroes Heroes. Not your stupid town building. Town building was/is relevant for the first 30 turns until you get your black dragons. Go play King's Bounty then, it'd seem to be more to your style than HoMM/MM:H.

antny129
04-12-2011, 05:52 PM
normally I just read forums and don't bother replying but as a player of this series all the way back to H2 I think a reply is needed. And No not A guy stuck in Heroes 3.

There are many like me who have not bothered to reply and probably should if they feel the same way. A simple solution could simply be a options box to allow windowed or full screen if this is simply about creating a faster moving game for the targeted market.

And it don't seem like the people who are developing this game are truly fans of it, if they are dumbing down the town window this much. For it really is a part of the game many do enjoy. But for new audiences of it the option could be the solution. Even at this point in development doing this option would not take much.

If none has seen the final product this crying may be premature.

Ro.Floro
04-14-2011, 02:54 AM
When are we going to see the town window that we are so much talking about?
Will it be shown to us when the beta begins? And when is that?
20th april?

amonkoth
04-14-2011, 03:30 AM
I think Blackhole is saving the best for last !

Ro.Floro
04-14-2011, 04:28 AM
It'd better be the best thing, the town windows...or else they'll lose some players...or at least lose a lot of respect from the players. Anyway...we'll see the town screens in 6 days. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
I can't wait :X

Destruction3402
04-14-2011, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by amonkoth:
I think Blackhole is saving the best for last !
That would be epic!

Asterisk
04-14-2011, 09:51 AM
Town Pop-up Menu FTW!!

Dark-Whisperer
04-20-2011, 05:01 AM
Might and magic : Heroes VI's release date got pushed down to the 8th september.

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/f...241070229#2241070229

translation:

Hello all,

Sad news for the fans today: the release of the game is postponed to September 8 this year.

We want more time to the development team to complete the game
If you were expecting a good game, you'll have a very good game
If you are expecting a very good game, you'll have an excellent game
If you are expecting a great game, you'll have a masterpiece.



Since release is almost 6 months away from now I guess proper town screens can be implemented.

znork
04-20-2011, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by Dark-Whisperer:


Since release is almost 6 months away from now I guess proper town screens can be implemented.

Keep up the presuir dark and you might get ithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Asterisk
04-20-2011, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Dark-Whisperer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Asterisk:
Dude, look at their company job list. They are hiring for 4 positions. One of them is GRAPHIC PROGRAMMER. They simply don't have resources to do your stupid Town Screen. That's why it's not there in the first place. I bet you they even outsourced some of H6 stuff.

Wooooow... you are actually saying that Black Hole was over its head to begin with. So developers that outsourced parts of the game, cornered themselves with lack of manpower and lack of time to the point that they cannot deliver decent town screen. And after all you said you still believe that heroes can be good game?
If they are having trouble with something as easy to make as town screen what do you think they will do with AI or balancing?
You managed to insult developers, game and fans and make yourself look like a fool in single post. Gratz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1060878/m/4121001229 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5861060878/m/4121001229)

You were saying?.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

P.S. MMH6 will be a good game: yes - 60% (and declining), no - 40%

Dark-Whisperer
04-20-2011, 12:06 PM
For me with this delay:
MM:H 6 will be a good game 90% (with totally unacceptable town windows), no - 10%.

If they change windows - it will be close to perfect but I cant really say without actually playing it.

And I will quote Dreamwright/Cepheus from "Release date postponed to Sep 8th" thread:


Originally posted by Dreamwright:
I cannot understand anyone who would oppose a delay for quality. Only somebody who knows literally nothing about the recent history of the series would take issue with such a decision, so here is a brief lesson:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z199/Cepheus_03/H4MultiRelease.png?t=1303308420

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z199/Cepheus_03/H5AmbitionFail.png?t=1303308458

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z199/Cepheus_03/H5SaveHeroes.png?t=1303308458

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z199/Cepheus_03/H5CrapGrammar.png?t=1303308456

Heroes doesn't need another substandard or incomplete game. If the developers need time to complete H6, give it to them for God's sake.

Asterisk
04-20-2011, 12:32 PM
^ Are you 15 or something?

znork
04-20-2011, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
^ Are you 15 or something?

Becuse he makes grate posts that makes muche sens?

Asterisk
04-20-2011, 03:42 PM
^ Oh yeah... My cat's poop has more sense in it than his posts.

Pankratz1980
04-21-2011, 01:30 AM
Now that the game is being significantly delayed, bringing town screens to their former glory is a must.

PLEASE. Interactive, beautiful town screens, please.

Alderbranchh
04-21-2011, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Asterisk:
^ Oh yeah... My cat's poop has more sense in it than his posts.

Oh magnificent wizard, thy must be truly aweinspiring if thy brought such intelligence to such a lowly creature as a cat.


Just beware that insults like the one given by you is more than frowned upon. This is the case since English isnt everyones native language and as such they should be given some artistic freedom if you will. Either behave better or begone, Its your choice really. If you have any questions then I (and possibly your most sensible cat) will be availble to answer them.

Cheers!

Dark-Whisperer
04-27-2011, 11:56 AM
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/forums/pictures/heroes6/H6_preview_town_screen.jpg

Ok this is official...
I don't see any significant change from Cologne to Budapest to now. Town windows are fixed and non interactive.
I know they say changes are possible but how much more dissatisfaction can we show...

GoranXII
04-27-2011, 02:21 PM
The picture's too small and it's out-of-focus, and the menus are too big. On the whole, an atrocious effort.

antny129
04-27-2011, 02:37 PM
Its not all that bad, actually I never clicked on buildings anyway. So its fine. would have preferred full screen instead of window but I can get used to it.

Thunion
04-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Its not all that bad, actually I never clicked on buildings anyway. So its fine. would have preferred full screen instead of window but I can get used to it.
For me its pretty bad...I mean "not all building will be visable",not interactive,Town Screens(OK town windows..whatever..)Allready lost most of what they used to be..

BlueLore
04-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Thunion:
For me its pretty bad...I mean "not all building will be visable",not interactive,Town Screens(OK town windows..whatever..)Allready lost most of what they used to be..

what do you mean with "not all building will be visable"?I hear that for the first time.

All in all I also think it is kinda sad,that there are no full town screens and that the screen is not interactive.I mean ok,I never used the interactive screen in H5,but that was mainly because it was in 3D.

antny129
04-27-2011, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Thunion:
For me its pretty bad...I mean "not all building will be visable",not interactive,Town Screens(OK town windows..whatever..)Allready lost most of what they used to be..

from the post


- The town visuals will be animated and are what could be described as "2.5D".
- Each town has its own musical theme (as usual).
- The town visuals change when you build stuff (although in the current design, not all buildings appear).
- Building and recruiting is done through the window interface, rather than clicking on the buildings directly.

I am thinking when they say current they mean before release and all the buildings will be there on the final version.

Thunion
04-28-2011, 12:48 AM
I am thinking when they say current they mean before release and all the buildings will be there on the final version.
I hope so..

Dark-Whisperer
04-28-2011, 05:19 AM
Yes, lets show us town window that didn't evolve a bit from august 2010, but zoom in so we don't see how small it is, place word current design in explanation and ofc stick "work in progress" sign so we can all feel warm and fuzzy inside.
The arrogance...

Alderbranchh
04-28-2011, 08:16 AM
Do trust me DW when I say the fans wont rest until there is a proper townscreen. The VIPs have made that perfectly clear what the opinions of the fans are.

I for one think it should be H3-style aka FULLSCREEN and not just close to as in the screen.

Thunion
04-28-2011, 08:21 AM
Do trust me DW when I say the fans wont rest until there is a proper townscreen. The VIPs have made that perfectly clear what the opinions of the fans are.

I for one think it should be H3-style aka FULLSCREEN and not just close to as in the screen.
You made me feel more optimistic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

KingImp
04-28-2011, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Alderbranchh:
I for one think it should be H3-style aka FULLSCREEN and not just close to as in the screen.

Fully agreed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fever_K
04-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Alderbranchh:
I for one think it should be H3-style aka FULLSCREEN and not just close to as in the screen.

Well said: fullscreen and interactive; I don't mind the 2D, 2.5D or 3D at this point.
Will the whole summer be enough for them to make decent townscreens?

karin003
04-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I also vote for full screen and interactive, and that all the buildings actually show up when you build them.

Kartabon
04-29-2011, 03:56 AM
It's not so damn hard to make the town screens to be full screen... appart from that, I loved the townscreen Alder has shown us, is for me perfect, I'm a fan of 2.5D townscreens ^^ The only problem (big one as you already think) is the fact it is windowed!!!!. I hope they will change that for the release...

Pankratz1980
04-29-2011, 03:40 PM
I'm happy that people agree the best and most desired solution would be interactive & full screen.

If you ask me, windowed I can live with, but NON-interactive? NO WAY I'll stomach that.
Interactivity is a MUST. If we can't have full screen, at least please do not throw interactivity out the window. What's the fun in watching a static picture if you can't click that awesome structure and see what can be trained there? You lose that sense of "place".

Sorceresss
04-29-2011, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Dark-Whisperer :

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/forums/pictures/heroes6/H6_preview_town_screen.jpg

Ugly. Aweful. A huge setback in comparaison to 2006's Heroes 5 Inferno hellscape. It looks like Heroes 3.5 !

I wonder why Ubisoft could not broker a deal with 3D-Master Nival Interactive : corporate penny-pinching, I suppose.

Instead, we get (relatively) cheap "2.5D" town windows.

GoranXII
04-29-2011, 10:17 PM
on to 2006's Heroes 5 Inferno hellscape. It looks like Heroes 3.5 ! No, it looks worse than that, because at least H3 was thrifty with their menus. Plus the H3 screen was at least interactive.

Metamagician
04-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by karin003:
I also vote for full screen and interactive, and that all the buildings actually show up when you build them.

I support this.

But it kinda gives me a bad feeling when basic stuff like this is even on the table(of not being) in the first place..

For example, who the hell would be so clueless to think that a windowed townscreen would be a good idea?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

BlueLore
04-30-2011, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Sorceresss:
Ugly. Aweful. A huge setback in comparaison to 2006's Heroes 5 Inferno hellscape. It looks like Heroes 3.5 !

I wonder why Ubisoft could not broker a deal with 3D-Master Nival Interactive : corporate penny-pinching, I suppose.

Instead, we get (relatively) cheap "2.5D" town windows.

Whats the problem with 2.5D?
I think 3D town screens were a bad idea.
Yes they looked awesome,but you always had to search your buildings which made it pointless to use the interactive townscreen.

Pankratz1980
04-30-2011, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by BlueLore:
Whats the problem with 2.5D?
I think 3D town screens were a bad idea.
Yes they looked awesome,but you always had to search your buildings which made it pointless to use the interactive townscreen.

2.5D I also prefer, but still, those screens are completely pointless now due to their static, non-interactive nature. They might as well get rid of them and none will notice... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
No matter how nice those pictures will look, they'll be ignored completely due to lack of possibilities to click on buildings and really get a feeling that each structures serves a PURPOSE.
All those great artists' work will be in vain.

Destruction3402
04-30-2011, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
The picture's too small and it's out-of-focus, and the menus are too big. On the whole, an atrocious effort.
These are my only issues as well, except I actually like the picture on itself.

*Menus too big in comparison.
*Picture seems somewhat out of focus (great way of explaining!)
*Should've been full-screen
*Non-interactive picture

Those are my issues!

Dreamwright
04-30-2011, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Sorceresss:
I wonder why Ubisoft could not broker a deal with 3D-Master Nival Interactive : corporate penny-pinching, I suppose.

Funny you should say that - I hear the project under Nival had planned to get rid of the town screens altogether.

MMXAlamar
04-30-2011, 01:13 PM
Why would the Russians do that and get rid of the town screens? I thought they were some of the biggest M&M fans out there...

znork
04-30-2011, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by MMXAlamar:
Why would the Russians do that and get rid of the town screens? I thought they were some of the biggest M&M fans out there...

well i heard the same rumor i dont know why.

Loong time no almar welcome back

BlueLore
04-30-2011, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Pankratz1980:
2.5D I also prefer, but still, those screens are completely pointless now due to their static, non-interactive nature. They might as well get rid of them and none will notice... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
No matter how nice those pictures will look, they'll be ignored completely due to lack of possibilities to click on buildings and really get a feeling that each structures serves a PURPOSE.
All those great artists' work will be in vain.

Yeah I think the developers were thinking:
"Oh in H5 nearly noone used the interactive buildings,so we can leave that out"
But the problem is that in H5 this was done because the screens were 3D and it was sometimes hard to find the right buildings,but now where they are 2.5D it would be more fun to click directly on the buildings.

MMXAlamar
04-30-2011, 04:16 PM
Thanks znork http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tikreet
05-05-2011, 09:17 AM
Now we all know the reason to make a windowed town screen , to make the game faster (like town screen is the solution!! ) ,, ubisoft.. please make this optional ,, or make windowed town screen only for multiplayer,, i think alot of players agree with me that the best part when we play a new heroes game is when we explore the city and feel its atmosphere , we won't be able to feel that when we're looking at the flames of inferno city and how everything is burning with rage and at the same time snow all around it : Please Ubisoft, make us happy this time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ro.Floro
05-06-2011, 04:23 AM
I hope they take the 3 months they delaied the game with to resolve THE PROBLEM, meaning the town windows -> town screens!

WaterPoloLaw
05-06-2011, 11:36 AM
I have debated even opening my mouth about this. But, here it goes.

It may just be me, but I really like the look of that inferno town...A LOT. I am a big fan of 2.5D and animated graphics. It looks very cool.

Personally I could care less about interacting with the screens by clicking on them. As long as the screen is highly animated and you can see changes and upgrades to the town as you purchase them, I am good.

My only suggestion would be to make the widow a bit bigger (or put in a toggle option to view the town in full screen).

asterix406
05-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Town screens were really great, because you got the feeling of entering the town!! Leaving just town windows would be, in my opinion a big mistake! At least make it optional, but please give us the town screens in fullscreen!

chipmanman
05-25-2011, 07:58 PM
Town screens are awesome, but they also stole a large amount time during any given timed turn for me the further I got into games and acquired more towns from the lag processing, so no complaints here.

What would be something is if you can see creatures and hero models inside a town wall on the adventure map "defending" if they are visiting the town.