'Sacrifice' The Sequel...(coming soon) [Archive]

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 08:15 AM

Not a sequel really but my next film after 'Sacrifice' is well into production. Halfway through I'd say.
Boy is this hard work! Spent 6 hours yesterday editing 1 minute of an action sequence, but so pleased with the results I couldn't sleep and I'm up early editing my next sequence.
I won't say if it's better than 'Sacrifice'. I'll let you decide when it is released (soon). All I will say is that I am so far very happy with the results (extremely).

BTW, Because of my limited web space (50MB) 'Sacrifice' will soon be removed from my web server to make way for my new one. I'm guessing my new vid will be between 35-45MB.

Stay tuned
Scrag /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Message Edited on 10/28/0308:18AM by Scragbat

Message Edited on 10/28/0310:09PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 08:15 AM

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 08:26 AM

I absolutely cannot wait! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.hollowlife.net/IL-2.gif

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 09:44 AM

Neither can I m8 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I wish there was a quicker way to do all this.
Most of my production time so far has not been doing the editing or the post production (I do post production after each edited sequence is complete).
The most time consuming part so far has been getting the recorded track. I used Uberdemon to create a single mission and then modified it in FMB. I had to modify it because I have IL2's that do a single bomb raid on a base and then fly away after one bomb run while there are still bandits in the air. I had to give them more bombing objectives and get them to chase any remaining bandits.
A tough thing to do when you are not exactly adept at using FMB. Maybe Uberdemon can give the IL2's instructions to attack fighters after a bomb run but I couldn't figure it out. Sorted now anyway.
I have been flying this mission on and off for two weeks just waiting for the right track to be captured, and now I finally have it. If only AI would do what you wanted them to do the first time round /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I have to take my hat off to the makers of Uberdemon. What a fantastic piece of free software /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I haven't played online for WEEKS! This will be my last project for a while...

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Message Edited on 10/28/0310:04AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 11:09 AM

bump on the Uberdemon front....he tha daddy!

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 01:22 PM

Looking forward to download new movie you made now,
One question - how do you make the camera shaking,
if i`m not mistaken u make the camera shaking even during locking targets (fighters and so on)? This effect is really
exiting!

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 02:20 PM

Hey Scrag. The new special effects and film look deserves notice. Sacrifice is a MOE (Movie of Excellence), that we would like to host at some time in the near future. Keep us updated and lets talk more. S!

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 02:22 PM

Hey Ben Pond. Love the way you added special effects in your excellent movies. Are they still up and being hosted at this time?

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 02:53 PM

Camera shake and faded colour is created in post production by After Effects. Follow my posts in VWC (Virtual War Cinema) where I elaborate on it a little more...

CombatRazor wrote:
- Looking forward to download new movie you made now,
- One question - how do you make the camera shaking,
- if i`m not mistaken u make the camera shaking even
- during locking targets (fighters and so on)? This
- effect is really
- exiting!
-
-

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 03:36 PM

Encore, Encore, Encore!

Encore used in english and never in French oddly enough although it is a French word meaning "Again"

I am glad that Scragbat is at work to present us with another taste of Virtual-Realism!

We appreciate the hard work to entertain us! I for one will not judging it as being better or worse than the first one! I will just enjoy it as it is!

Cheers!

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 07:17 PM

i really hope you arent still doing frame by fram motion sketching http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

i thought i had allready mentioned i had aquired and learned how to use a "Camera shake" filter for after effects that does all the work for you..

6 hours for 1 min of vid?? heh thats not the work of a filter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

i cant remember the url to where i got it(quick search on google), but it was an after effects related site, and you needed an adobe pass to download it.

id be more then happy to send it directly to anyone that wants it(so you dont have to search for it, and deal with getting an adobe acount). you can pm me, or msn at uhohdavinci@hotmail.com its only 5k.

heh ive got the production part of my editing down to such a science, i once i get all the footage i want i can pump a movie out in a handfull of hours now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif effects and all.
the only thing that takes up my time in production is rendering time on my slow comp http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but i can assure you 10frames a second(dont automatically) is better then manually doing it 1 frame at a time, taking who knows how long http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

as i generally use several passes to accomplish the camera shake effect.
1 pass for ambiant shake, another for guns firing(with different amount of shake), another for explosions(again different type of shake)... etc...

great thing about the filter is you can control the shake very well, set its frequency, amplitutde, octaves, time in/out, direction etc..etc..

i could have swore i allready mentioned this, as i didnt want movie makers spending so much time on effects(that a simple filter can do), rather then other parts of the movie,like story, getting the perfect shot, editing, music and such, that cant be replaced by a filter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i thought you were still on your "break" i as i am, waiting for 1.2 and the b17. Bah perhaps ill make a quick movie, and write a quick tutorial of how to use the effects, to streamline movie making production..

Anyone that wants the filter, please contact me!! i really hate to think movie makers are spending thier movie making time on frame by frame effects, rather then more important things like story or... sleep http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 09:49 PM

S! Davinci

Thank You for the Info on the "Camera shake" filter fro After Effects

Falcon

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 09:52 PM

No, not frame by frame /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Motion sketching does produce positional keyframes frame by frame but that is not a lenghty process really. It doesn't mean you literally have to create a keyframe manually for every frame.
The motion is captured in realtime by mouse movements. If you have a 6 second sequence of an aircraft (F2 view) it will only take 6 seconds to motion sketch. That's positional keyframes at 25 frames a second.

My post production for my 1 minute action sequence took about 1 hour. That included Motion Sketching for camera sway, motion blur on flyby views, desaturation, bluring and rendering.

Prior to the post production my edit for my 1 minute sequence took about 5 hours. This involved watching my track sequence a few times and analising what was going on with all aircraft and in what order. During this I could decide what camera angles would best fit my edit. I then started capturing with fraps from multiple angles all the action and flying I needed.
I then go to my capture folder, watch the captures and delete any that don't cut it.
I then put this footage piece by piece into my video editor and sequence it together and do some test renders to see it it all fits together.

It takes a long time but it is very satisfying seeing the end result /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I don't want to rush this movie. I have no deadline. I'm taking it easy and enjoying the whole process (apart from the bugs in track playback). I don't want to churn it out in record speed and worry about something I could have included or done without after it is finished. I just want to produce something I am happy with.

Davinci.. wrote:
- i really hope you arent still doing frame by fram
- motion sketching /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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Message Edited on 10/29/0302:08AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 11:54 PM

Hi guys. I checked into that After Effects software and found it to be $750.00-$1,100.00. Of course that is out of my range. I have used Animation shop 3 per Ben Ponds suggestion for motion blur and shaky cam. but the is no motion cam effect like in After Effects as described. Is there another more affordable package with that same special effect or are the majority of us locked out? Thanks. S!

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 03:14 AM

Thanks for the update on the sequel to your latest film Scragbat. I'm sure it will be a must-have.

My film, Red Stars Over Berlin, is also about half way through production. It's not real heavy on effects, but I am very satisfied with the results so far and the movie is really taking on a "box-office" kind of appearance to it. It is rather lengthy though as I tend to get carried away--I expect it to be about 10 minutes in length.

I'm using Vegas 4.0 as a video editor, but see no filter for camera shake though (not motion sketching). What is the specific filter on Adobe (After Effects, Premiere) for camera shake? I have both AE and Premiere but don't have it installed (yet).

Just can't wait to finish this, but I'm taking my time with it, and I'm taking time out for other necessities in life like eating, sleeping, and working. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

--ShadowSix

XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 05:35 PM

UCLANUPE, the movies will be back on Nov 1st, along with my newest one. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Davinci, half the fun is the lengthy editing! I don't need no stinking filters! Movies should have that personal touch! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 07:04 PM

I agree about the personal touch BPond. When Motion Sketching it's almost like you're holding that movie camera yourself /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I have tried the 'wiggler' in AE with good results but have gone back to Motion Sketching for the perosnal touch.

BPond wrote:
-
- Davinci, half the fun is the lengthy editing! I
- don't need no stinking filters! Movies should have
- that personal touch!

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 08:11 PM

So I take it that you guys have no cheaper replacement for After Effects.

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 11:07 PM

Hi Scrag,

Ive just found a few spare minutes to compliment you on your work (Sacrafice).
When am not playing FB after work my profession is in Audio Post Production, and while watching your movie i was first impressed (very) with the visuals and thought of Spilberg (the motion sketch and John Williams) both very popular with Spilbergs work. However, at the same time your movie was screaming for some shockingly loud sound effects and wished i had just a few days free because i would have really enjoyed doing the sound effects for your movie.

I would recommend (if you have the energy left) spending just a couple of hours learning some audio software where you can load the AVI/MOV file to synchronise the sound effects with the visuals. If your not very experienced try something like Cubase (personally i hate it) or if you have some experience there is a Free demo (limited to 8 tracks i believe) of Pro-Tools by Digi Design.

To get an amazing piece of work you need to tell your story to two types of people at once; A blind person and a deaf person, if they come out with the same conclusions you have done a brilliant piece of work by professionl standards.

Good Luck!!!

and am looking forward to viewing your next piece of work.

XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 11:47 PM

I was just toying with the idea of sound but now you've convinced me that I must do it. More production time but worth it in the end.
I will use Goldwave to amplify the explosions from the game (they're not very loud really), and I will add echo and reverb where needed.
I know that in 'The Mask of Zorro' with Antonio Banderas they mixed the sound of big game cats with the explosions to add to their ferocity and in 'Return of the Jedi' they mixed into some of the explosions breaking glass sounds.
I don't know if I will be that ambitious but it's worth noting.
I will add the sound to the video using Premiere and use the excellent sounds from a post that was made in this forum regarding this subject.
I can't remember who posted the links but there are some excellent sounds of bullets ricocheting (in stereo) which will be great for views of cockpits being shot up.
Have'nt sound editied anything of this magnitude so there will be a learning curve for me.

Feel free to throw any tips at us that you want.

Fantastic that we have an industry professional in the forums now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good to have you here STING3R_o1
Salute!

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Message Edited on 10/29/0311:56PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX

10-30-2003, 12:43 AM

STING3R_o1 wrote:
- Hi Scrag,
-
- Ive just found a few spare minutes to compliment you
- on your work (Sacrafice).
- When am not playing FB after work my profession is
- in Audio Post Production,...
- To get an amazing piece of work you need to tell
- your story to two types of people at once; A blind
- person and a deaf person, if they come out with the
- same conclusions you have done a brilliant piece of
- work by professionl standards....

Sting:

Drop by and join the Virtual War Cinema Forum(s)...

http://www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/

Your advice on Sound tracks, etc., will be a great addition to the growing set of tutotials, etc...

BPond and others: Don't forget that BPond's "How Bitter a Victory" movie is Permanently showcased at the Movie Branch of My Site(SigBlockBelow)

<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center><center>http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV) </center>
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Message Edited on 10/29/0304:45PM by OberstWiley

XyZspineZyX

10-30-2003, 07:19 PM

Hi again...again i have managed to squeeze a few minutes to quickly visit these forums and ill try my best to visit Virtual War Cinema Forum(s). At least before the wife gets home /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The are many techniques you can use to create sound effects, and like you said you can use different sounds to represent something completly different, but these techniques are usually accomplished using special equipment (good Condensor microphones to DAT ((on field)). A few other example are Elephant raws which were used to represent the 'Tie Fighter' in Star Wars, the back of a television for the 'Light-Saber' or more recently from the 'Matrix' when Neo is dogging the Agents bullets in slow motion, they used F15 fighter jet samples to represent the bullets wooshing past.
But to accomplish these kind of creative ideas and to follow them through it takes a great deal of skill and patiance. I last did the sounds effects for a Manga type of Animation and it took me approximatly 48 hours to do a 2 minute section...all with proffesional equipment.

Personally i would try and source your audio material from somewhere else rather than creating them yourself. I would use layering too. By placing different samples over the same section, but remember not to over croud the scene.
Try and create the appropiate atmosphiere with different samples too.
Also have a quick look into diegetic and non-diegetic sound and think about voice over samples from cockpits to add to the story (this to some would come under atmosphere).
I think i have said enough for now, because i will soon stop making sense.

Ill try and get back but would prefer some WIP to hear and coment about.

Take care..

S.

XyZspineZyX

11-04-2003, 09:14 AM

Progress report -

This editing lark is not easy
It is so difficult keeping track of all the aircraft in my movie mission (16 aircraft). Who is shooting what ground targets and who is chasing who, and trying to maintain continuity.
I am so far up to 5 minutes 15 seconds of my edit and I am so far happy. I have shown what I have edited so far to guys at work (no post production or sound editing), and have had good feedback.
Hopefully have the action edit finished at the weekend and then onto post production, sound editing and titling.

It's going to be tough accounting for all the aircraft in my flick. I may have to leave some of them to the viewers imagination /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Scrag

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