View Full Version : 119 Type XXI built - why not used?
03-13-2005, 11:26 AM
On http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/11/detail_uboot_xxi.htm , you can read "a full 119 Type XXI were completed and delivered in less than a year (28 June 1944 until May 1945)".
So, why weren't they used? Only one went on patrol very late in the war, and didn't reach any targets before the war ended.
03-13-2005, 11:46 AM
As I understand it, they were so advanced and radical, they had awful problems with every aspect of manufacture. Also, the crews had to go through very lengthy training because the boats were unlike any other type. Combine that with the almost continuous bombing of the harbours that housed these boats and it's a wonder any of them ever put to sea.
03-13-2005, 11:57 AM
because the type XXI was a totally new submarine , designed, built and launched in less than 18 months ! It suffered many problems and needed long periods of training for the crews as it was a totally new way of doing the sub war.
Few dozens of XXIs were on training when the war ended, only two were lanuched for operation, the U2511 (Adalbert Schnee) and another one that was damaged during a bombing.
The well known commander, E.Topp, had the very interesting duty to write the training manuals for the new crews. His boat, the U3008, was intensively used to test the boat and her capabilities.
In fact, to sum up, the XXI came just 5 months late to play an important role in the war, even if they couldn't have changed the fate of the third reich (HOPEFULLY !!!).
Just for your information, the XXI was so advanced compared to the WW2 uboote of all nations, that during her only war patrol, the U2511 managed to simulate an attack on a british task force without being detected !!!!
After the war, Adalbert Schnee told the british admiral that was aboard this task force in april, 1945 that he managed to take position to attack and sink the battle cruiser, giving all the prooves that he was effectively there. The admiral could not believe his ears !! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
The XXI was a wonderful machine.
03-13-2005, 11:58 AM
sorry Beeryus, I was typing my reply when you posted yours....I didnt want to repeat what you said. My fault I didnt refresh the page before posting.
03-13-2005, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by u2336:
sorry Beeryus, I was typing my reply when you posted yours....I didnt want to repeat what you said. My fault I didnt refresh the page before posting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No problem. Great minds think alike, and anyway it's always nice to be reassured that I've learned good info. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
03-13-2005, 12:36 PM
Seems a bit like a B-29 on/under water; a machine that was one war ahead of its time (though the B-29 actually was deployed in numbers).
03-13-2005, 01:26 PM
yet again the german army and her equipment where far ahead of there time, mainly due to a stupid fuhrer, they lost the war.
Small grap on ahead-time-weapons: In the Wehrmacht (panther/ MG42), Luftwaffe (jetfighters/jetbombers/ V1/V2, Kriegsmarine, subs XXI/ Bismarck (?) and chemics, the protos of nukes.
03-13-2005, 01:36 PM
As I wrote......HOPEFULLY they lost the war !!!
Thanks for this brilliant Adolf, whom, with his extroardinary sense of the strategy managed to bring his 3rd Reich to the bottom of the bottom http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
A "best of" his best choices :
- opening a second front (the east one...)
- Keeping bombing the british towns and not the airfield and the industried
- Ignoring Galland's advices about the defense of the Reich
- Not developping a strategic bomber
- Waiting the Dday at Calais
AND A LOT MORE !!! (if someone can continue the list)
******** I do not talk about his ideology, this part is too hard and we all know (I hope) the evil he brought on earth. ***********
DO NOT REST IN PEACE ADOLF.
03-13-2005, 01:40 PM
Too Big,Too Late
03-13-2005, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GabberHardcore:
Small grap on ahead-time-weapons: In the Wehrmacht (panther/ MG42), Luftwaffe (jetfighters/jetbombers/ V1/V2, Kriegsmarine, subs XXI/ Bismarck (?) and chemics, the protos of nukes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wouldn't quite agree there. The Panther wasn't ahead of the IS-2s, the Me262 was ahead of the pack but only just (since the western allies all had jet fighter programmes), they were far behind as far as nukes were concerned and the surface navy was behind its time when it built battleships rather than aircraft carriers.
I agree that the rocket guys were ahead of the pack, and the German rocket scientists went on to put the Soviets in orbit and the Americans on the moon after the war.
03-13-2005, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xrvjorn:
I agree that the rocket guys were ahead of the pack, and the German rocket scientists went on to put the Soviets in orbit and the Americans on the moon after the war. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was gonna say, you forgot about their post war contributions. Nazi scientists made just about every special weapon we have today. From American/russian fighters, their subs, missile technology, rockets, their space rockets. Its frightening what could have become if Germany had more breathing space or the war had dragged on longer. Good news the allies invaded when they did instead of sitting around longer. (and good job russia kicked so much ***!)
I never cease to be amazed at how brilliant German scientists were, its strange such massive advances can be made by humans to destroy in the space of 6 years but yet at peace time the same inpetus is lost. Says a lot about our personalities.
03-13-2005, 05:43 PM
Couldn`t agree more with you there. I allways get shivers down my spine when I think of German might. Especially in the later part of the war when they were being pounded into dust, yet their industrial output was still on the rise thanks to Speers ingenuity.
If only they had fought for a right cause it would have been a glorious moment in history.