options, and features you want to see in PC lockdown

[bangurdead1988]

well, I've been playing the series a while, (5-6 yrs) and I miss some features that were in the orignal games, and I like some features that I wouldn't mind being brought back from RvS


<LI>bullet holes in people

<LI>a more detailed status page

<LI>being able to climb over boxes which made the game unlinear, you didnt just have to check the floor you had to see the whole area and make an essesment of weither I feel like dieing or scan the surroundings.

<LI>being able to force other people on a team, (if one side is unbalanced and a bunch of noobs just want to say that they won so they switch teams)

<LI>being able to click on their name, and then clicking on the kick button to get rid of cheaters,___holes, ect...

<LI>the lean and crouch feature in Rvs, you could scroll with the mouse how far you crouched down and how far you leaned to the left or the right (improve this feature, let me select a angle for both the left side and rightside lean, let me set how far I crouch down behind a crate in an option screen)
*note* right handed players go to the right more than left handed players so they would probably set the right lean a little less than the left lean becuase simply they would be more acustomed to standing at a corner leaning right than left, and be at the right position to pick off a target.


<LI>letting the player select a default rate of fire option (instead of every round we have to push the b key untill the one we want appears)

discuss some of your own oppinions and constructively criticize my opinions

[eeid02]

I agree with most of it.

[Yen Lo]

bring back the RS style of multiplayer host screen. That console type this thype that sucked. You need to be abel to lock the room in game.

[Koda-Circa1983]

Well said my friend. How about some other **** things.

-How about ditching the junk weapons...

-I'd like to see missions where you're doing some kind of executive protection, guarding a VIP in a car, it could be fun and it's something these types of units do. Also I could see ambushing cars as well, a snatch and grab on a terrorist in a 3rd world nation would be awesome.

-I want another Mission where you take an airplane, I mean come on that was the best mission in Rogue Spear next to the bombed out village in Kosovo (personal opinion)

-Maybe it's me but I'd like to fast rope from an MH-60 (Blackhawk) onto my LZ and be able to have the Helo stick around to offer sniper support with one of the team inside providing cover which is something else that's done.

-How about intelligent use of cover by NPCs such as your team and the tangoes.

-Come on, if you're in a market in Turkey and the bad guys pop and innocent civillian the mission shouldn't be over, if you pop one of the pedestrians then yeah, but come on man.

-A device you hook up to a USB port then to your hand that sends electric shocks to cheaters...I like that idea.

[AMC_Pace]

MiniMap
I think the Minimap in RS was better then the googles in RvS

[The-Pizza-Man]

Yeah, I like the minimap too, much better than the radar thingo in RvS.

[bangurdead1988]

Originally posted by Koda-Circa1983:
-How about ditching the junk weapons...

-I want another Mission where you take an airplane, I mean come on that was the best mission in Rogue Spear next to the bombed out village in Kosovo (personal opinion)

-How about intelligent use of cover by NPCs such as your team and the tangoes.

-Come on, if you're in a market in Turkey and the bad guys pop and innocent civillian the mission shouldn't be over, if you pop one of the pedestrians then yeah, but come on man.

-A device you hook up to a USB port then to your hand that sends electric shocks to cheaters...I like that idea.

-ditching weapons? like the AP army? because it isn't a junk gun but ubisoft montreal screwed up bad with that weapons stats, its main purpose is to penatrate body armor which makes the weapon Illegal in the United States, being that ubisoft montreal is a Canadian stuido(they cant own real guns due to laws), they only were using airsoft guns(plastic bb shooters) to model the weapons so they didn't realistically Model the weapons recoil,accuracy,power,and IMO rate of fire was off.

-747 was one of my favorite missions, it has Counter-terrorism labled all over it, and it allowed for so many ways to tackle the mission it was Crazy, you could set up a sniper squad just designated for picking off the tangos that ran to the door or you could sneak up to the airplane just using the fueling truck as cover (realistically), or you could combine the two for a two way assault on the airplane

-NPCs in Raven Shield(Rvs) were lacking to me compaired to what we had in Rouge Spear(RS), In RS
the AI did their job, they shot terrorists unlike in Rvs where they would stand in a doorway look through and then decide to move on in after a tango has already emptyed a clip into 2-3 of the teammates where the last remaining AI teammate then decides to yell "man down"

-agreed, the last games were extremely Agrivating to get through when the tango decides to empty a clip into one hostage and then the mission failed, I don't think an actual CT unit would then pack their bags and go home leaving 4 or 5 hostages behind

-lol if only that could be a posibility, but lets be more realistic, instead of shock therapy lets go to the center of the problem, him/her owning a computer which he/she uses to cheat just make the device plug into one of the ports inside his/her computer, with a little C4 you wouldn't have to worry about running into the cheater in another game, and I doubt he/she would find it funny that he just shot 2-3 guys in the head withought even pointing at them when his/her computer blows up when PB finds that hes been cheating after updating mid round...I think this would be more effective because some people like Pain, have you ever seen some of the people working at a police station, these guys are not in their right mind, crappy pay, have to fight suspects, these people don't take the job because of good pay, they take the job either because they like to fight or they like pain

[eeid02]

The AP in Raven Shield,is named FN 5.7,and it is NOT illegal in U.S. Civilians just cannot get the AP ammunition for it because it was specificly designed for that purpose.

I don't care about the gimmick guns as long as they exist and modeled correctly,but I would not like the decrease in number of weapons that are more commonly used in real world.

I'd also like to see a change in weapon aim and handle modeling,which I described in detail in another realism discussion thread I made. Recoil "shifts" aim,not "spread",since recoil moves weapon,but it does not turn the barrel into a cone.
Muzzle should bob up and down when running,and it sould be harder and slower to turn with heavy weapons.

[bangurdead1988]

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Lockdown's rating Mature (17+) Blood,Language,Violence

looking back on the previous games ratings, and then seeing the gameplay of LD demo just makes me wonder

R6:Rougue Spear's rating Teen (13+) Animated Blod & Gore, Animated Violence

R6:Covert Ops's rating Teen (13+) Animated Blod & Gore, Animated Violence

R6:Rogue Spear -Urban Operation's rating Teen (13+) Blood and Gore,Violence

R6:Black Thorn's rating Mature (17+) Blood,Violence
(one of the last games made from RSE)

R6 3:Raven Shield's rating Mature (17+) Blood,Violence
(this game had lots of potental, but weve been down this road befor)


it seems to me the lower the rating the more tactical, appealing to more the Hardcore Fans, and R6ish the game is, but then again the rating could have changed over the years, but I don't know

maybe a teen rating should be a feature of r6 games

[WhiteKnight77]

Black Thorn was done by Ubi Montreal as RSE was doing GR at the time. BT came out about a month before GR did. Ubi tried working with the RSE engine (and goofed that up even) and proceeded to use the Unreal engin for RvS (an even bigger mistake).

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Ubi ... proceeded to use the Unreal engine for RvS (an even bigger mistake).
Why?


I don't see any difference in the violence and gore between Rogue Spear and Raven Shield. Rogue Spear even had visible wounds on bodies, which looked even more nasty.

I think the ragdoll ******ness in RvS looked like the dead bodies suffer inhumane stuff and thats why received a mature rating, lol.

[WhiteKnight77]

The only reason why I can think of for Ubi using the Unreal engine for RvS is that fans wanted it. It is a fact that fan feedback and reaction can mold how a game is developed and what features are added. Fans had wanted the use of Unreal for a long time, well, they finally got it and it was terrible as the team Ubi had using it didn't understand what was going on.

I don't recall seeing any blood in RvS unlike I did with R6/RS or GR. That may have been an internal decsion, I don't know. I just know, that I had problems with nausea in RvS along with a game that didn't have the R6 feel to it.

[bangurdead1988]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
I don't recall seeing any blood in RvS unlike I did with R6/RS or GR. That may have been an internal decsion, I don't know. I just know, that I had problems with nausea in RvS along with a game that didn't have the R6 feel to it.

blood was/is possible in Rvs, its just that they didnt use it, they could have easily implimented it but no, there are features you can use to apply to textures, just like what appears on the walls when you shoot them, but instead of a cement hole it would be a flesh wound

[eeid02]

I don't know if someone mentioned this before.
I wish it's possible to use weapon loadout and personnel selection saved in one map be used in other maps. It was annoying having to make and save same comfiguraion for each map when I wanted to use same configuration in multiple maps,when playing simgle player.

[Urban-Violence]

Things I'd like to see for the PC version.

-Proper Rainbow Six name, all the previous games have followed this format RS: RS (Rainbow Six, Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear, Rainbow Six: Raven Shield) with the exception of the exp packs.

-Classic R6 music, the techo-rock music they used in the console versions is down right terrible.

-Classic gameplay. Tactical not run gun, get it right Ubi! This is Rainbow Six, not Doom, not Soldier of Fortune, not SiN, not Half-Life. RAINBOW SIX DAMMIT!

-Realism over balance. I'd personally like to see realism take presedence over balance. When balance is focused on, something usually suffers. Also realism tends to balance itself out, if every weapon is tremendously deadly then it's not unbalanced.

-Source engine and/or engine utilizing the Havok physics engine (such as the F.E.A.R. engine). Physics is the key to a realistic game in my opinion. So an engine that can properly model physics is VERY important. Bonus if it looks good.

-Classic R6 briefing and planning phases. The Console briefing screens werent only ugly, they were terribly lacking in details. The planning phase is essential to any tru R6 game, I dont think I need to explain why (if I do, then Ubi should sell the franchise now to someone who will do it justice).

-Traditional R6 multiplayer, bring back survival, team survival and everything else that was in R6, RS and RvS.

-NO PEC MODE! The Xbox PEC mode is terrible, do not let the code even be on the same database as the PC game code.

-Vast and varied arsenal. One of the best parts of any Rainbow Six game (especially RvS) has been a large and varied selection of equipment. 30+ weapons, 10+ other equipment, 3 armor types, and of course weapon attachments.

-Fully customizable kit including weapon, once again one of the series' best features. I love being able to choose exactly what every team member carried. I'd also like the ability to fully customize my weapon with suppressor, beta c-mag, aimpoint, scope or whatever else I want. But keep it realistic.

-Smarter AI, smarter AI either friend or foe is always good.

-Equipment based in reality (excluding the heartbeat sensor, which is from the book). Keep equipment as realistic as possible, realistic night vision, realistic thermal, realistic frags, realistic flash bangs, tear gas etc. REALISTIC DAMMIT!

-No Hollywood action influences, keep hollywood out of Rainbow Six PLEASE.

-Autenthic squad tactics. Keep all tactics in the game as authentic as possible. Or if your fabricating a tactic, keep it realistic.

-Realistic ballistic properties. I want to see ricochets, object penetration, cover vs concealment (a chouch wont stop a bullet, but it will hide you). Bullet deviation, bullet drop at long ranges. Realistic weapon characteristics and reliability, ie if I'm using a weapon that in real life prone to jamming after extended use it should jam on me.

-Dynamic/realistic environment, the environment should show that theirs been a battle. Bullet holes, burn marks, detroyed furnishings, structural damage from explosives. Also depending on an object's material it should react differently (this is where Source comes in handy). Metal doesnt react liek wood when shot people. Finally when something is dropped leave it there! I'd like to see shell casings/ empty magazines littering the level after a match for once.

All I can think of right now.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
The only reason why I can think of for Ubi using the Unreal engine for RvS is that fans wanted it. It is a fact that fan feedback and reaction can mold how a game is developed and what features are added. Fans had wanted the use of Unreal for a long time, well, they finally got it and it was terrible as the team Ubi had using it didn't understand what was going on.

I don't recall seeing any blood in RvS unlike I did with R6/RS or GR. That may have been an internal decsion, I don't know. I just know, that I had problems with nausea in RvS along with a game that didn't have the R6 feel to it.

I don't think I've ever seen a Unreal based game that has wound decals. I believe someone has said it's not possible in the engine. An unusual restriction within the engine if it is true.

I don't think the engine itself was a problem. Many good games are based on the engine, even tactical ones like SWAT4. It's probably the most atmospheric FPS i've played. AAO shows that realistic weapons handling is possible w/ iron sites, etc. The engine is very capable.

[bangurdead1988]

An unusual restriction within the engine if it is true.

I dont belive that for a second, I've seen what you can apply to textures in effects, sounds, bullethole effects, Illumation effects, Shiny effects, bumpmapping, while some of these require a extera step in work to get them to work propperly the blood effect would only need to be made (add a texture in that would display a wound and then make that an option for texture, and then apply it to the "Uniforms" of the rainbow operatives)

[Philipz]

I would like to see the PC version of this game released.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An unusual restriction within the engine if it is true.

I dont belive that for a second, I've seen what you can apply to textures in effects, sounds, bullethole effects, Illumation effects, Shiny effects, bumpmapping, while some of these require a extera step in work to get them to work propperly the blood effect would only need to be made (add a texture in that would display a wound and then make that an option for texture, and then apply it to the "Uniforms" of the rainbow operatives) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but have you seen 1 game that has wound textures on the models? I can't think of one off the top of my head. I just remember either on this board or another one saying that wound decals were not possible within the engine itself.

[Urban-Violence]

The Red Orchestra mod (WW2 Russian front) for UT 2k4 has wound decals I believe.

[Truju]

Originally posted by DayGlow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An unusual restriction within the engine if it is true.

I dont belive that for a second, I've seen what you can apply to textures in effects, sounds, bullethole effects, Illumation effects, Shiny effects, bumpmapping, while some of these require a extera step in work to get them to work propperly the blood effect would only need to be made (add a texture in that would display a wound and then make that an option for texture, and then apply it to the "Uniforms" of the rainbow operatives) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but have you seen 1 game that has wound textures on the models? I can't think of one off the top of my head. I just remember either on this board or another one saying that wound decals were not possible within the engine itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rainbow Six 3 and Black Arrow

[bangurdead1988]

Originally posted by DayGlow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An unusual restriction within the engine if it is true.

I dont belive that for a second, I've seen what you can apply to textures in effects, sounds, bullethole effects, Illumation effects, Shiny effects, bumpmapping, while some of these require a extera step in work to get them to work propperly the blood effect would only need to be made (add a texture in that would display a wound and then make that an option for texture, and then apply it to the "Uniforms" of the rainbow operatives) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but have you seen 1 game that has wound textures on the models? I can't think of one off the top of my head. I just remember either on this board or another one saying that wound decals were not possible within the engine itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its not possible due to punkbuster because it checks for difrent versions of textures, it is possible, but PB kicks you for it, why dose it do that? because it it did allow for texture changes, you could easily put every outfit to bright Orange Jump suits and that would be cheating since they dont have the texture and it would be cheating if you replaced the snow camoflauge into Caution orange so they stick out better

[Yen Lo]

there is a console command for blood in rvs, hmm cant remember though. Youll get a large swath of blood wherever the bullet exits.

[bangurdead1988]

were not talking about the blood spary but the bullet holes that appear on the people

[Shrike_UK]

My suggestions:

1. Ironsites aiming.
2. MORE GUNS!, try to make it close to R6 Lloyds mod or Nato, at least 150 guns please.
3. more thunderous sounding grenades.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

1. Ironsight that are realistic, not the bad ironsight of most games out there.

2. LESS GUNS!, try to include only firearms that a special force unit would rather use if they had free choice.

[Shrike_UK]

Thought of more:

1. Yes Cpt. I agree on Guns regarding the realistic selection, but there isnt much choice, what happened to Glock 17, 18 & 19, these were used by British SAS, they was in Lloyds or Nato mods, and i would rather those than a .50 desert eagle which isnt tactical at all. All in all, theres a whole load of real guns that were SF usable but never got a look in. I particularily like the Izmesh Baghira, and the Russian Makarov (i beleive the Spetsnaz used).

2. More choice of uniforms - in addition to the beefed up tactical police outfits that its gotta have, i had a mod, cant remember who made it now, but it had all the SF from around the world, Swiss, GSG9, Austrian, IDF, SAS, SBS, and so on... it was very cool being able to role play all the real world forces.

3. Skin Uploading! other games have it, the best example of which i know is a flight sim called IL2/Pacific Fighters. Everyone can make theyre own squad skins, and they will load during the gap between each round, that way to not cause lag during play.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Originally posted by Shrike_UK:
what happened to Glock 17, 18 & 19, these were used by British SAS, they was in Lloyds or Nato mods, and i would rather those than a .50 desert eagle which isnt tactical at all.
Exactly. Hope no more Desert Eagles.

[Yen Lo]

better yet make the darned thing moddable so people can do what they want.

[madmachinegun]

These may be far-fetched, but here goes...

1. overhaul insertions. Say your in an urban map, your should be able to insert off of any street as well as by helocopter. if you choose a chopper, you would select a site for it 2 land in and which guys go in it. to balance this the chopper can be shot at and alert enemies, and you can take control of men riding in it, who will shoot at any tangos they see unless otherwise told. Any water missions should let you do the same thing with inflatable rafts.

2. destructable terrain. I mean being able to use a breaching charge on steroids to blow a hole in a wall so i can enter through it.

3. Ability to have snipers start missions on rooftops and actually be useful.

4.revert to the RvS HB sensor. Outlines are cheap.

5. Put SA HB sensors in multiplayer, as well as maybe tripwire mines (claymores) or booby traps. These could be disarmed by holding the use key on the tripwire.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Cpt.Cordalez:
1. Ironsight that are realistic, not the bad ironsight of most games out there.

2. LESS GUNS!, try to include only firearms that a special force unit would rather use if they had free choice.

Since it's a CQB game I'd like to see not only iron sights, but stance directed fire. A lot of snap shots are taken without using the sights on the weapon. What I'd love to see is 3 positions for the weapon.

1) low ready. Gun model isn't even visible on the screen. From this position you have the best visibility and movement speed, but zero accuracy to fire. Pressing the alt fire button will bring the weapon to the next stance, or pressing the fire button will snap the weapon up and fire right away, but no real sense of where your firing (basically an Oh-No point blank fire)

2) sighting over the weapon. Alt fire brings this up or fire from low ready snaps it up to this position and fires right away. From this position you use are looking over the gun model and the barrel gives you a rough idea of where you are aiming. Short engagements you basically put the barrel on the target and you will hit it. Still good visibility as the gun model isn't blocking the screen with the sights and speed is reduced as you are trying to hold the weapon steady for snap shots. Also the only way to sight weapons with a scope for close range shots.

3) holding down the alt fire while in the sighted over position will lift the iron sights to your eye. From here you have the best accuracy, but the most restricted view because the gun model is lifted to the center of the screen. Also speed is really reduced as you are holding the weapon still to use the sights. Release alt fire and it drops back down to sighted over barrel view. Click alt fire from that position drops it down to low ready.

I think this would really work and snapping from barrel sighted to iron sights would really work as you just keep holding down the alt fire (usually mouse 2). You could easily enter a room with the weapon up, take out a close target with just barrel sighting, say a guy only 10-15 feet away, then quickly snap the weapon up for a longer ranged shot or a difficult shot (hostage).

I can dream. The Infiltration mod is talking of doing something along these lines and I think it would be the perfect way to marry iron sights into a CQB game.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Originally posted by DayGlow:
Since it's a CQB game I'd like to see not only iron sights, but stance directed fire. A lot of snap shots are taken without using the sights on the weapon.
Exactly. It is known that SWAT and CQB SF's train to fire unaimed, from the shouldered position and they are masters of it.
Except pistols, they is no need to fire them unaimed, when you easily can point the sight on the target with both eyes opened. They should be never, NEVER a pistol position on the right side of the screen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif (in real life you aim it, or lower it).

I remember in the Raven Shield times the devs said they had/tried Ironsights, but dropped it due to it wasn't fun (I don't check it), but having the shouldered weapon position without crosshairs and the ironsight wouldn't force you to use the sight. As in CQB a lot of 'snapshots' are used you would do the same in R6.
As you said, to place accurate shots on distance you would use the sights.

I can only repeat myself, that freeaim and vectoraiming with a small freeaimzone in the centre of your screen(view) would be the best possible option. That would allow you to 'guess' your shots so d**n accurate, but still an on-screen-painted crosshair(cheat) wouldn't work.

Ubi (RSE) should finalyl make the weapon handling accurate like a real operative uses the weapon.

But I fear they will implement the sights as bad as in Raven Shield (console), a bad sight image with reticule http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif and an unaimed weapon position with... reticule http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif.



What I'd love to see is 3 positions for the weapon.

1) low ready. ...

2) sighting over the weapon. ...

3) holding down the alt fire while in the sighted over position will lift the iron sights to your eye. ...
Finally someone has a brain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

Pistols should have only the lowready and the aim (no need to hold the right mouse key to aim), which would increase the usability of pistols in CQB.

Problem is, Infiltration has/will have arm fatigue and the weapons collide with surfaces, lowready makes good sense.
I highly doubt R6:LD will include this features.

The only solution I can think of, is to make the 'lowready run' slightly faster (few units) than the 'shouldered weapon run'. Same the 'lowready walk' could be slightly faster than the 'shouldered weapon walk'.
Aiming the sight will let you walk slowly (as you said).

That way you would run and gun slower and search for tangos in a more tactical way, but would be able to increase the speed slightly (as you see SWAT member running without a direct expectation of hostiles with a slightly lowered weapon).



To be honest, I have the feel, that the PC R6:LD is allready to far in progress, than such massive changes are possible.

I also think Ubi offers no info on the game also because to take a look on the forums and maybe to find some inspiration of what the fans want, but the community doesn't behave very cooperative, but rather flame around. Flaming around is ok in case of the console version (which is ...), but the PC discussion should stay clear.

[bangurdead1988]

wow, what ever happend to an actual sequel for rainbow six...now I think ill need a virtural simulator just to play this concept game

this is what I want Tom Clancy's rainbow six: Rogue spear 2005-06 special edition remastered with updated graphics the addition of weapon attachments from Raven Shield with the addition of new attachments and includeing 20 (gessing) new maps that will promote any tacticians mind in the action by the creators at RSE

isn't that more feasable than Life in Iraq 2005 aim the special forces way

side note: lol with all those features, I think I'd run out of keys (97 keys that i have on my keyboard)

[Cpt.Cordalez]

I have 106 keys.

What you mean with this Iraq thingy?

[Vadimnk]

Just use a decal that looks like it 3d etc. From my experince with Uengine I never seen wound holes etc, but I did see body parts flying.

[bangurdead1988]

just using iraq as an example to what feeling I get from when I read all the talk about having diffrent fireing positions, ect...but it would be nice to choose what type of fireing accuracy that applys to how you're holding your gun

[DayGlow]

I shoot my sidearm unsighted all the time. It's stance directed fire and is done from a draw. You stab the weapon out towards a close target (within 15) and quick double tab. No sight picture is ever obtained. Not sure how you would model that in a game.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Yes, but wouldn't it be this kind of fast shooting, you explained with a rifle when pushing the firekey while it was held in lowready before?
That would match the quick drawed unaimed pistol shooting kind of.
But when you point the pistol forward, you sort of look down the line of it, don't you?

The thing is, a pistol can be slightly lowered when you have freeaim (works perfect in Infiltration http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) and I don't speak about the lowready, but just slightly lowered to have more view, so you don'T run with an aimed pistol.

The pistols have the most real weapon behavior in Infiltration.

And even if the pistolsight isn ot exactly alightned you still never see a pistol on the right side of the screen (which is utterly stupid, imo), it is always centered, even if not aimed.

[madmachinegun]

aynyone else think destrucable terrain and choppers are a good idea?

[fubarnz]

Originally posted by madmachinegun:
aynyone else think destrucable terrain and choppers are a good idea?

choppers me dont think its worth it in mp, round takes longer to start
LD's maps to small for these sort of starts, more suited to GR3

depends on what you want to destroy in terrain wise,anything can be made to be broken in RvS or basicly any game its up to the mapper

blood effects can work in RvS

[GSG_9_Rage]

choppers would be ok for single player and COOP for insertion and sniping. but in adver it would be bad. we would have helo *****s just like in BF2. it would be even worse if the player could control the chopper.

[madmachinegun]

the way i see it, choppers would only be availible in modes with a planning phase, which would be SP only if they don't add planning to Coop. The idea is that you have any area that a chopper could access as your insertion point, by setting a destination in the planning phase. To balance this, the chopper could alert tangos and could be shot down, so its not like you can just appear where u want. Any team riding in the chopper can shoot back, either with AI or manual control. Once you insert, the chopper leaves, so you cant get rides everywhere.

[SoonerMann]

I want to be able to use a knife. That would be awesome.

[AMC_Pace]

a Knife ONLY as a Tool
Spec Ops units in CQC dont use Knifes as a Weapon. This is again Counterstrike BS
so I like to see NO Knifes as weapons in Lockdown PC
leave that childish BS for the Console kids and their Console version

Further more a Gameplay just as we had in Rogue Spear. it was the most intense cool Game i played in all the Years.
**Edit**
I like to see the glitches from the RS Redstorm engine fixed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as i did read already you still can glitch out of the map in the Lockdown Console version.

[RAZE_672]

This is not that important but ...

I wish gas masks were a stock item carried by all CTs just like nightvision goggles are. This would free a slot on ones kit for something else like extra ammo or different nade. It would also prevent CTs from gassing players on their team not commited to a gas kit load out.

Is this realistic?

[bangurdead1988]

except it would make tear gas completely ineffective...unless you would choose either Night vision or Gas mask to run around with...or the gas mask would cover up alot of the screen and maybe slow down the player

[RAZE_672]

Your right. Any way in which a mask can be made part of your equipment without negating its use as a weapon would be fine with me. Your suggestions are good. Maybe also having mask take a period of time to put on might be worth considering.

I just hate to waste a slot on my kit for a mask just because one guy wants to use it.
(I'm only speaking about coop games.)

[bangurdead1988]

coop games I'm all right with the idead that it dosen't take up a slot...mainly because the tangos wouldn't be starting topics complaining about being abused (would be wierd if they did)

coop games is where players and weapon attachments shouldn't be limited IMO

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Co-op is he best invention for computer games.

[bangurdead1988]

This is probably the last post that I can think of that would be Constructive in any way of form, every thing else has been said before by others besides me.

This is what I believe is missing from Raven Shield and I hope will be in Lockdown on PC but so far hope is to far away to be seen with out any information that (media coverage of any kind, IRC chats that result in something more than we wont know until its final and we cant give you any information what so ever)

+ good
- bad
$ good and bad
? don’t remember exactly
/ IMO should be added to the new game
* Ideas to fix
( brief explanation)

Maps and general game play (R6:rogue spear)
+ multiple pathways (more then 2 or 3 ways to get to the same place even if it isn’t a major spot on the map)
+ taking the long way paid off better than the direct way (provided some tactical advantages usually)
+ Spawns spanned more than one room (depending on where you spawned your strategy changed, due to multiple path ways, and every one had a different strategy )
+ camping wasn’t as effective as in RVS (because usually one room had three entrances to one room)
+ climbing objects ( it created a need for an awareness of the surroundings…not just the floor you run on)
+ big rooms usually had balconies or catwalks (it made it so the combat was 3-D environment indoors)
+ No real choke points (there were a few areas that players went to on their own will, but they were never forced to go there)
+ maps ranged from Huge-Large-Medium-Small (you used certain maps depending on what mods were activated, # of players, type of body armor and color in some cases)
+ no server stats (no one was competing to be the best, just good, only clans wanted to be the best, and that’s all right)
$ SMG’s were modeled good in recoil and stats, Assault rifles, LMGs, were modeled bad in recoil *bring over the Ghost Recon weapon stats*
+ no bouncing (switching from a crouched position to standing instantly is what I consider bouncing)
? no lean walking (maybe it was the people I was playing with but I don’t recall a time when I seen someone walking down the hallway leaned over)
? no scope running (was and is running rampant in Rvs) *Introduce Huge weapon bob and make the Rets spread extremely far * (basically simulating them running )
/ allow the player to choose to view FPVW (first person weapon view) or non-FPVW, I extremely like looking at the weapons, but sometimes I just get frustrated with them and want to turn them off
+ The lobby style…LOVED it. (the full screen selection lobby, it allowed me to see all basic server settings, and allowed me to see what I chose as my equipment)
+ The end of the round stats…LOVED it. (loved being able to see # of rounds fired, %hit, # of kills, # of bullets taken, the person who killed me)
+ bullet holes on people…LOVED it. (if you’re a vet you probably missed this) ever see someone with a smile on their butt, I have and to say the least I loved being able to take pride in seeing that I hit what part of their body I was aiming at.
/ when PB or IEM (Internal engine measures) find some one cheating, PB or IEM sends his/her CD key or PB# to a server that they log into and makes it so they can no longer play on Multi player with that CD key (maybe it wouldn’t apply to modded servers to prevent PB or IEM from mistaking the Mod as being a cheat)
+ Moving vehicles in game (coop only more than likely, that would provide cover for the CT’s to approach their objective like on the 747 map)
+ Music (it inspired me or put me in the mood to use tactics, instead of this metal junk which makes me in a sense angry or more aggressive and using more force like running and gunning)

Maps and general game play (R6:Raven Shield)
+ weapon attachments (loved being able to attach a scope, silencer, high Cmags) *add more options, maybe allow two attachments*
- didn’t care for the ret system this time because of the double modeled recoil that would make your aim **** and make you look at the ceiling
+ improved graphics
- didn’t care for the Devs not to implement climbing on crates even though they were every where on some maps
- Tons of BUGS!!!!
- a lot cheaters at the release

(some stuff was degraded, and only a few things were improved, and only a few things were added that were new)

Weapon attachements (and some Ideas for new or additional attachments)

Flashlights (toggle able) - gives away the persons position when on and can temporarily stun the person (an actual effect on me when I seen the tangos with them), When turning off decrease accuracy, when off you cant see in dark areas with out Night Vision

Silencer â€" increased accuracy, decreased noise, lowers penetration ability of medium and heavy body armor but will still kill if you hit them on unarmored exposed areas

Red dot sights- faster recovery after fireing rounds while zoomed (because its easier to use)

Laser attachments (toggle able) â€" removes the ret and blooming effects but it introduces weapon “bobâ€Â� when running, more pronounced or increased recoil and gives away your position in dusty areas. Weapon bob shape is a U shape.

Extended Clips (pistols) â€" more ammo in a single clip but overall the carrying capacity is decreased (excluding extra magazines) recoil is reduced (minimally)

Flip clips/double clips (not sure of their real name) â€" faster reloading time between the two clips but double the reloading time when the magazines are both empty
The clip small picture
http://www.totalbf2.com/game/weapons/images/ak101.jpg
The clip big picture
http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img=game/weapons/images/ak101_render.jpg

Box fed light machine guns â€" higher firing capacity at one time (100-200 rounds per box), but recovery is decreased

Belt fed light machine guns - lower firing capacity at one time (50 rounds), but better recovery

Fore grip attachments â€" decreased recoil, increased recovery, increased overall reload time by 1/8 the normal reloading rate

Scopes â€" increased visual range when zoomed, not zoomed = more screen space taken up

Bipod â€" increased accuracy, decreased recovery time (only effects when prone)

Thermal- sees body heat through bushed and trees, cannot detect people through metal or building materials but only through a limited amount of bushed (2-3) and only hot spots appear.

Movement detectors â€" points out to snipers is somebody is running while zoomed in greater than 1.5 or 1.5 but also detects grenades, doors, birds, windows breaking cars moving, ect... as long as its faster than walking

Attachable shotguns/grenade launchers â€" no pistols, increased recovery time and decreased recoil using main weapon, faster switching time instead of drawing a pistol out, takes longer to reload (1 shot grenades, 4-6 shotgun rounds) (probably co-op only)

Iron sights (3d not that gay flat overlay **** that’s in lockdown) - basic weapon system for aiming while zoomed, zoom probably set at 1.25 or 1.125

attachment system- probably 1-2 attachments, 3 attachments at the most (or only for
co-op)

Maps and general game play (Lockdown)
-mirrored maps (lacks in innovation, shows lack of enthusiasm of the job, and decreased overall replay ability)
-low number of weapon choices
-guns to accurate while running (causes run and gunning) *make them a lot less accurate while running compared to what they are now*
-people take to many bullets (ties DIRECTLY into guns being to accurate and causes run and gun, but wouldn’t be a problem if the guns were fixed)
+ brought back the running speed of the original rainbow six (but the guns being to accurate while running ruins the whole game for me, running in a straight line should be more accurate than running left to right with the trigger mashed down *bring back GR1 ret system)

PEC mode
- weapon restrictions and classes
+ being able to select my own camouflage
+ being able to select my own armor (heavy, medium, light)
- unrealistic equipment for the classes (they are Counter terrorists, not the army or riot patrol)
- replacing the gimped system with the cracked goggle system (inspires run and gun)

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Sorry didn't read all that, will do tomorow when have time, but zoom for iron/reflex sights? No thanks.

The devs said no zoom, it's weird. Good so.

[bangurdead1988]

i didn't mean zoom, but more of a focused sight...something thats hard to notice...like .125, .0625 something your eyes could do on their own when you focus on something in the distance it becomes more detailed...

oh and maybe include some support for team camoflauge ( or some type of logo on the back of your teammates camoflauge that will only appear to you if they have the logo or camoflauge on, and what camoflague would appear to those who dont have the camoflauge you could select per map (snow camo on a snow map, desert camo on a desert map, ect...)

[VD_Silent]

what do you mean by "logo" i do remember armpatches... is that what your talking about?... IF you mean something on the lines of a team logo on the backs of players only visible to allies i don't think that is a good idea, just due to the fact that it would be easier to keep your wits straight when in a firefight and you see your logo come walking by... when previously the possible tk is likely. But i think i just misunderstood you.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

@bangurdead1988:
I agree to most of course.

But please no movement detector. I even always wished having no HBS at all, since in the book it was a tech-guy informing the RS-operatives of the signals, thats what I wish the SP-campaign should have.
MP and coop should stay a clean enter and clear thingy.
The HBS is always like a legal cheat to me.


Actually flat rearsight overlays liek in Battle field 2 are the best solution to implement realistic sights.
The frontsight and front weapon parts are 3D and the rearsight is a blurry bitmap, affected by light movement and recoil.



My stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif:

Iron Sight - shold be 3D, but the blurry rearight bitmap.

Reflex / Red Dot Sights - should be binocular aimed. The weapon is closer to the screen, more centered and more up, but in the centre the red dot with an transparent reflex sight-scope bitmap.

Pistol Sights - No pistols at the right side of the screen, thats stupid. Keep them centered, bit held lower, or aimed always.

Attached Grenade Launcher - Should have only smoke and gas grenades. No sidegun restriction.

Attached Underbarrel Shotgun - No sidegun restriction. Shouldn't be ingame, imo.

Grenades - No fraggrenades, this is a CT game, keep R6 an 'enter and clear' thing (SWAT3 is good without the frag-nades).

Movement - Make a toggle between slow and fast walk and run when holding. No fire at run. Explained here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8081011862/m/9671027853)

Leaning - No run, no walk when leaning.

Weapon Handling - Include freeaim/vector aiming for unaimed rifles and aimed pistols.

Lowready - Yeah make it.

Machine Guns - Why in a CT game? But when still in-game make them beeing carried at the hip (buttstock under armpit). When crouching they will be taken to the shoulder.

Sniper Rifles - Are carried low and sideways. Pushing the firekey when the rifle is low will take it to the shoulder and take it back to sideways after 3 seconds. Alt fire aims it.
When crouching the sniper rifle is shouldered.
Standing in front of an obstacle (crate, ...) that does not abstruct your view will shoulder the rifle aswell.

Sniper Seat - Bring back the 'meditation' seat for snipers.
When not aiming the scope you'll sit down to this 'meditation seat'. When aiming the scope you will just kneel down.

Sniper Scope NV - The sniper have no night vision googles, but a NV scope.

Infra Red - The Infrared should be green and detect other heat sources, as hot pipes, steams, car motors, fire, gun fire, hot locations, etc.

Weapon Recoil & Accuracy - Finally make the weapons bahave realistic and like used by professionals.

[bangurdead1988]

i was just thinking of stuff off the top of my head Cpt.Cordalez, I dont really want a movement detector implimented, but Splinter cell MP had one and if the devs did decide to impliment it thats how I would want it to work...small stuff setting it off and making it at times useless (remember havoc system is going to play a larger role in the PC version)

but I was just thinking of near future possibilitys seeing as the game takes place in 2007

I think there is just one more post that I'd make and will take me some time to write up and correct on word so ill be back in a while with some other ideas.


by logo I mean for Clans...currently Im in the Evilest Clan, and I've always wanted to have a clan signia on the back or something sybolizing my clan...like on Swat 4 they have the red or blue strips with your name on it, maybe but the clan name there..., arm patches are just to small.

no I dont think the logo should only be visible to allies only, but only to the people who have the skin (ut2004 custom modles and skins...if you dont have it a default skin or moddle is used)

let me go into detail
Bob and Jim are in the same clan...they both are wearing the same camoflauge. Bob is on gold team and Jim is on Blue team...Bob and Jim enter the map and soon bob finds himself staring at Jim with their clan skin, Bob lights Jim up, but dosent finish him off, Jim quickly turns around and sees Bob wearing the clan signia, Jim taunts him on Ventrilo or Teamspeak and then pops Bob in the head...end result Bragging rights...

but to prevent cheating make it so that you cannot replace stock skins with moddified skins to prevent someone from changing the snow skin to neon orange jumpsuits...

[XsargenX]

you all read this Page!

Ahh what right here -->http://liveammo.silvermods.com/features.html

[bangurdead1988]

07/03/2004 dont think we will see this mod ever finished

[XsargenX]

Ahh Maybe some of this stuff could be added to Lockdown ---> http://liveammo.silvermods.com/features.html

[The-Pizza-Man]

I think the idea of having more than just an armpatch is good, but, like an armpatch everyone should see it. It wouldn't have to be a file any larger than the avatars we have on this website so it shouldn't be a problem for people to download while waiting for the round to start.

I actually toyed around with a team skin a few years back, but because of the general diffilculties of putting it on a server and such it was impossible to use.

[bangurdead1988]

Weapons that I would like to see

Guns we have seen before in other Rainbow Six games and expansion packs (should be implemented first IMO)


SMGS
-HK MP-5/10A2
-HK MP-5A4
-HK MP-5SD5
-HK MP-5K-PDW
-HK UMP-45 , HK UMP-40, HK UMP-9 (45ACP, .40SW, 9mm)
-FN P90
-Skorpion vz.61 (or Skorpion vz.83, cal. 9x17mm Browning .380 ACP)
-UZI
-Micro UZI
-Beretta M12s
-Spectre M4
- MAC M10 or M11
-Tavor MTAR-21 (micro version)
-SR-2 (couldn’t find the actual or full name of the gun)
-Steyr TMP

Assault Rifles
- AK-47
-AK-74
-Steyr AUG A1
-FN FAL ("Paratrooper" model (also known as FAL 50.63) with shortened barrel and folding butt)
-FAMAS G2
-FN FNC
-HK G36K
-HK G3A3
-IMI Galil ARM
-L85A2 (new version) or L85A1 (older version)
-M14
- M4A1 carbine
-M16A2
-Valmet M82
-Tavor TAR-21
-QBZ-97 / Type 97
- Groza OC-14

Shotguns
-M1 Super 90
-Franchi SPAS-12
-USAS-12

Sniper Rifles
-Dragunov SVD
-M82A1
-HK PSG-1
-SIG-Sauer SSG 3000
-VSS 'Vintorez'
-Walther WA 2000
-Accuracy International L96 / Arctic Warfare (AW covert)

Light Machine Guns
-HK 21e
-HK 23e
-FN M249 SAW
-M60E4
-RPD (or a Type 56 LMG - a Chinese-made RPD copy)

Pistols
-Beretta 92FS
-Desert Eagle
-HK Mk.23
-SigSauer P228
-Steyr SPP


Weapons that I would like added to the game
Smgs
-B+T MP 9 (Brugger+Thomet) (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg63-e.htm)
-PP-19 Bizon (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg08-e.htm) 45 rounds (7.62mm) version
-Calico M960 (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm) 50 round version

(seems to me Ubi and RSE did a good job of getting almost all modern SMGs into Rvs

Assault Rifles
-FN SCAR and possibly variants (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm)
-Valmet / Sako Rk.95 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as43-e.htm)
- HK 33 and HK 53 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as13-e.htm)
-HK G41 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as46-e.htm)
-HK G11 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as42-e.htm) {yes I understand its an outdated weapon but who says that Rainbow wouldn’t use one}
-SA-80 Carbine (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm)
-Type 89 assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as38-e.htm)
-AK-102, AK-104, AK-105 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as06-e.htm)
-Nikonov AN-94 Abakan (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as08-e.htm)
-AS Val (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as10-e.htm)
-SR-3 Vikhr
-APS underwater assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm) {maybe for a water assault map?}
-Singapore Technologies Kinetics SAR-21 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as31-e.htm)
-Vektor CR-21 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as26-e.htm)
-Daewoo (K2, K1, DR300) (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as32-e.htm)
-SIG SG-550 SG-551 SG-552 Stgw.90 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as25-e.htm)
-Vepr assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as68-e.htm)
-XM8 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as61-e.htm) {one of its versions, maybe even as a SMG)

Shotguns
-Benelli M4 Super 90 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh19-e.htm)
-Franchi SPAS-15 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh06-e.htm)
-Saiga 12 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm)
-MAG-7 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh20-e.htm)
- Protecta shotgun (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH09-E.HTM)
-Jackhammer Mk3A1(http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh10-e.htm) {it says its design is completed but failed to attract any buyers…so hypothetically Rainbow got their hands on one would that be hard to belive?}

Light Machine Guns
-Negev (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg22-e.htm)
-CIS Ultimax 100 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg20-e.htm)
-Daewoo K3 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg27-e.htm)
-Mk. 48 model 0 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg38-e.htm)

Sniper Rifles
I don’t know much about sniper rifles, I heard somewhere bolt action sniper rifles are more accurate then simi auto sniper rifles.
Clearly I should leave this decision for someone else that has more technical knowledge about sniper rifles
But clearly there is a lack of bolt action sniper rifles in all games with Rainbow six on them

Pistols
I know we have a decent selection of pistols as is right now, but I think revolvers would be nice.

Total 31 weapons that I’ve named off.



Oh and one more thing to note, Since I've recently played Ghost Recon 2 I've noticed one thing that happens in it that should have been in RVS....now ask yourself what could that be....

The sound Of shells bouncing off of the floor, that one sound is Mentally devistating and enpowereing...that one sound to me does wonders... I fail to comprehend and explain how massive that sound effects me and how I love that one sound... it wasn't either included in raven sheild or wasn't noticeable...but that one sound of your clip emptying is a major factor for me.

[WhiteKnight77]

The PSG1 is a bolt action sniper rifle and has been a apart of Rainbow for the longest time (it was in the book IIRC) and was available in Rogue Spear. It was also in GR.

Bolt action sniper rifles are more accurate than their semi-auto counterparts.

[madmachinegun]

psg is bolt action? its a heavily modified G3, as the MSG-90 is. Im pretty sure its semi auto.
As far as bolt-action, the ranges are too short to need that much accuracy. Having a folloqup shot and engaging multiple targets are more important

[Vadimnk]

I can't belive you didn't include AK-103, lol AKSU's would be nice too.

Maybe we could have some of those for the mod...

[WhiteKnight77]

Sorry, I misread something previously that let me understand that the PSG-1 was bolt action. My mistake. It seems that the first bolt action sniper rifle in RS was introduced in UO and is what RSE called the AW Covert (http://www.ketmer.com/ai/defense/aws/index.htm). It fires a subsonic round and is bolt action.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Oh, noes weapon suggestions... omg. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
Guns we have seen before in other Rainbow Six games and expansion packs (should be implemented first IMO)
No, please not some unknown and unused chinese weapons, that a simple M4A1 would top in decades.



-HK MP-5/10A2
-HK MP-5A4
-HK MP-5SD5
-HK MP-5K-PDW
-HK UMP-45 , HK UMP-40, HK UMP-9 (45ACP, .40SW, 9mm)
-FN P90
Yes.



-Skorpion vz.61 (or Skorpion vz.83, cal. 9x17mm Browning .380 ACP)
I would say NO, but on some special missions, equipped with 'hostile' weapons it would be 'Ok'.



-UZI
Fullsized, yes.



-Micro UZI
-Beretta M12s
Nah, pointless guns.



-Spectre M4
If you mean this shortened M4, why a CT would use an unstocked rifle caliber weapon? Because it's cool? This is not a 'cool gunz' mod, but a serious tactical game.



- MAC M10 or M11
Nah, cmon.



-Tavor MTAR-21 (micro version)
Used by Special Forces, nice.



-SR-2 (couldn’t find the actual or full name of the gun)
Sounds familiar, dunno exactly.



-Steyr TMP
Not to bad choice for a CT game, in comparison to some unused, unknown chinese weapons.




- AK-47
Meh, some taliban stull use it, but a SF CT unit would rather use the AKM (AK-Modernized).
The use of AKM would sound more beliveable. You could see U.S. used AK's in CQB in iraq this time, all AKM baby.



-AK-74
I think they is an AK-74M, with black foregrip and a longer barrel.
I think it would be more beliveable if a SF CT unit would rather use this, than a plain old AK-74.



-Steyr AUG A1
Why not A2? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



-FN FAL ("Paratrooper" model (also known as FAL 50.63) with shortened barrel and folding butt)
Yay, Iâ´m all for shortened 7.52x51 rifles. Wouldn't mind a G3A4 version aswell.



-FAMAS G2
Why not, better than some unused, unknown chinese weapon.



-FN FNC
Nah, cmon.



-HK G36K
Yay, and please not the export G36KE version. I want the reflex sight.
And I want to be able to mount an ironsight rail AND take an aimpoint red dot sight on it.



-HK G3A3
Nothing to add.



-IMI Galil ARM
Various CT's use it, duno why, but that makes it a good choice for the game.



-L85A2 (new version)
Well, brits.



-M14
Nothing to add.



- M4A1 carbine Nothing to add.



-M16A2
M16A4 please.



-Valmet M82
NOOOOh, this is one of this unused, unknown chinese weapons.



-Tavor TAR-21
CT's use it, so....



-QBZ-97 / Type 97
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111oneone1. This one of this unused, unknown chinese weapons!



- Groza OC-14
Please, stop teh torture.




-M1 Super 90
-Franchi SPAS-12
Add some remington stuff.



-USAS-12
Please not the monster gun. SPAS-15 would be kind of better.




-Dragunov SVD
For special-with-enemy-guns-missions it's ok.



-M82A1
For certain through-wall-shot-missions not bad.



-HK PSG-1
Nothing to add.



-SIG-Sauer SSG 3000
Maybe they are more beliveable-for-CT bolt action snipers out there? But I don'T know, the SSG 3000 is good too.



-VSS 'Vintorez'
Not sure to be honest.



-Walther WA 2000
Nothing to add.



-Accuracy International L96 / Arctic Warfare (AW covert)
Nothing to add.




Light Machine Guns
Please no MG's at all.



-HK 21e
-HK 23e
-FN M249 SAW
-M60E4
-RPD (or a Type 56 LMG - a Chinese-made RPD copy)
Nothing to add, I think.




Pistols
Finally.



-Beretta 92FS
-HK Mk.23
-SigSauer P228
-Steyr SPP
You forgot the USP.
Byside this, the Glock must be added.



-Desert Eagle
NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! !!!!!11111111111ooneoneoneone11!!!11one..... oh, did I allready said NO?



-Revolvers maybe
Nah.




Weapons that I would like added to the game
XM8, G11, Jackhammer... TEH TORTURE!!

Weapons used by CT's, like HK33 are always a good choice for CT game, but please no Jackhammer ******esation.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

I ask myself, why a bolt action sniper rifle is 'more accurate' than a semi out that has the same barel lengh and weight?
I doub't they is so much difference.

Bolt actions are preferred by military, because they are lean and light and because real sniping does not really require semi fireing.

As I known CT snipers often use the semi auto sniper rifles, because they snipe on closer distances (faster reaiming, and so fireing possible) and because they sometimes need to fire more than one shot per 2 seconds.

The reason for CT's using semi auto on closer distances is not the leak of accuracy, but the need to make more shots.
The larger the distances are, the slower the fireing speed becomes and the more important accurate aimed shots become (which makes fireing slower).

[Vadimnk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- AK-47
Meh, some taliban stull use it, but a SF CT unit would rather use the AKM (AK-Modernized).
The use of AKM would sound more beliveable. You could see U.S. used AK's in CQB in iraq this time, all AKM baby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the way you think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">-AK-74
I think they is an AK-74M, with black foregrip and a longer barrel.
I think it would be more beliveable if a SF CT unit would rather use this, than a plain old AK-74. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My Statement above


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Groza OC-14
Please, stop teh torture. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a nice Russian gun chamembered with a 9x39 round, similar or the same round as the AS Val has.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">-VSS 'Vintorez'
Not sure to be honest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its a 9x39 round so honestly i don't think thats a good sniper rifle round, but the Assault version (AS Val) of this gun rocks!

Yeah no Chinese weapons, they are just cheap rip offs of Russian AK's or some other major weapons.

I say the game should have more of the tactical kits, say grips, tac lights, etc.

[bangurdead1988]

If you mean this shortened M4, why a CT would use an unstocked rifle caliber weapon? Because it's cool? This is not a 'cool gunz' mod, but a serious tactical game.

...maybe its me but you are prejudice against alot of guns for unreasonable reasons...

FYI the

Specter M4 9x19mm Luger
M4 5.56mm NATO

The Spectre SMG was developed by Italian company SITES in the mid-1980s. Spectre was designed primarily for close combat, anti-terror or police operations that require compact size, instant firepower at the short ranges and safety of operations




.... For special-with-enemy-guns-missions it's ok.

WTF are you talking about...last I heard the Russians were on our side?? try not to be TOOOO steryotipical (excuse my spelling) about terrorists...being the only one who posesses Russian weapons.



Please no MG's at all.

why? are these not being used to fight off terrorists in Iraq? is there no situation that justifys CT teams and the Army to use these?


XM8, G11, Jackhammer... TEH TORTURE!!

Weapons used by CT's, like HK33 are always a good choice for CT game, but please no Jackhammer ******esation.

so you prefere the USAS-12 with 20 shells to the Jackhammer with 10? duno but the shotguns have to be able to compete with Assault rifles somehow and they are Pretty much useless in all situations in Raven shield...and then you take away the full auto shotguns and then what? crappy useless super recoil shotguns??? with extremely bad aim...geezus they do play a role in CT other than being over sized paper weights.

can you make a list you'd want to see in the next installment?

[Vadimnk]

Thanks for opening my eyes bangurdead1988,


.... For special-with-enemy-guns-missions it's ok.

If its made in Russia doesn't mean it's made for terrorists.

[madmachinegun]

no FNC? thats my favorite gun in mp RvS right now. my personal gripe is woodstocks on assualt rifles. The m14 in particular bugged me, as it should have a pistol grip, synthetic stock. Same with dragunov. A minor gripe, but it annoys me.

[The-Pizza-Man]

I'm happy with whatever guns they include as long as they are realistic and aren't artificially balanced. Some guns will be better than others, but thats just a fact of life. However, most of the differences would almost be intangible.

[Tacamo]

Originally posted by Vadimnk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">-VSS 'Vintorez'
Not sure to be honest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its a 9x39 round so honestly i don't think thats a good sniper rifle round, but the Assault version (AS Val) of this gun rocks! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Considering the job it's intended for it's perfect. The piston based heavy round is an interesting approach in the opposite direction of how Western arms manufacturers produce AP rounds for small arms. Seems like a great idea for close to medium range combat in urban areas. I'm sure the guys who went back to Grozny appreciated such weapons the second time around.

IRT the other posters comments about the M-14, they might as well change it some. Especially since it's in the near future and they're currently using either the M-14 DMR or in other cases the M-14 EBR which have some or all of the features you listed.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
Specter M4 9x19mm Luger
Well I allready thought you mean with Specter M4, not the shortened M4A1, but something else http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
The Specter M4 is an SMG, so ok.



WTF are you talking about...last I heard the Russians were on our side??
With 'special-with-enemy-guns-missions' it is obviously meant that the hostiles often (not always, not all kinds of hostiles) use the old AK type weapons. So the R6 team can use AK type weapons aswell (for sound, ammo, ...), but they have to be the modernized AK types.

My statement has nothing to do with 'The russian enemies'.

And BTW, russia is on it's own side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's to proud for anything else http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but I know what you mean.



why? are these not being used to fight off terrorists in Iraq? is there no situation that justifys CT teams and the Army to use these?
The US Army are military. The R6 team aren't police, but also not military orintated. They are CQB SF's, no need for MG's.

I know in the book the one hispano dude had an M60 for the case some terrors want to escape, to mow em down. But he was lying somewhere outside.
Thats how it should be ingame, and before I see R6 operatives running around with MG's in CQB, I rather want have no MG's in the game at all.

Iâ´m not really against MG's, but against how they can (will) be used and how it changes Multi Player.



duno but the shotguns have to be able to compete with Assault rifles somehow.
They perfectly can, in real life, but only in few games. and RvS is not this game.
Infiltration (mod) has it very good. The pellets may be absorbed by the vest, but are able to hit the neck, shoulder and face. The shottie in Infiltration is something you fear, same as a rifle. In CQB the shotgun is powerful.

And when you wen't out of ammo, why you carry a sidegun?

What I hate about most games is, that the shotguns have the effective range of 6 meters.



Originally posted by madmachinegun:
no FNC? thats my favorite gun in mp RvS right now.
Sorry, I confused some, that gun would be more ok than some other, imo.


@The-Pizza-Man:
Completely agreed. I don't care that much about what weapons, but how they are made (no weird balance, realism).




Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
can you make a list you'd want to see in the next installment?
I want to see not just from all of the world, but weapons, that a possible western CT unit, without nation, stationed in England would use.

Making it 100% realistic (imaginary/conceptually) I would add weapons:
- MP5 type, P90
- G36K, SIG551/552
- FN Fal type (full sized and shortened), maybe G3 tpye.
- PSG1, WA2000, Some european bolt actions.

Only western type weapons that a nationless unit would rather use, no eastern, no asian firearms.

BUT...
Expanding the idea of the book and making the game completely realistic, where R6 is a group that has no fame and where the media says the local CT's did the job, the R6 should use the weapons that the local CT's (of the country you have the mission in) use.

That means in europe and USA primary MP5 type and P90's when SMG's (in the USA also UMP45, Uzi, AK-74SU, Galil).
Rifles would be for example in US the M4A1, in Switzerland and france SIG551/552 and FN Fal type, in germany, spain, england, ... G36K.
Snipers aren't really specialized on that, so they use the sniper rifle they are specialised on.

Some eastern countries use MP5 type SMG's, maybe P90 too. Rifles would be their local AK type stuff (not only russian), or other type of rifles they use there.

High risk eastern missions in conflict areas (Serbia?, Grozny, Middle East, Asia) they would use no MP5's but only russian AK type, modernized weapons like AKM, AK-74M, AK-74SU, SVD Dragunov.
In china they would be even those unused, unknown chinese weapons that I hate so much.

That means you got only weapons based on missions, not more, not less.

The problem could be custom missions, that would break the concept.


But if the concept I speak about above can't be used, I still would wish only western weapons a nameless, nationalityless, in england stationed CT unit would use (MP5 type, P90, G36K, Fal, G3, SIG, ...), plus the modernized AK types (to deal with special missions in hostile areas, like conflict regions).

And since the game must be a bit more fun, I would not mind adding some other western weapons (M4A1, M16A4, FAMAS, FN FNC, AUG, maybe galil and mitar too).
But no unused, unknown chinese weapons!

[bangurdead1988]

lol, I love the "no unknown Chinese weapons" statement, and I some what agree with it.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Yeah, I mean all what I want is that the game is beliveable (beliveability is a kind of realism to me).

An US army game requires the armory the US military.
US SWAT are often using a large variety of firearms, also the FN FMC and galil (thats why I like to use the US SWAT as an example for R6).

The question is, why they use those weapons? And why they use some not?

Why should they use some 'unknown, unused chinese weapons'?
And even if the Beretta SMG is western why should they use it? It is no benefit to them, they would take an MP5 all over the Beretta.


And what weapons would a western international CT unit, with the location in England use?
I think not some 'unknown, ... chinese weapons'.


Maybe it's true that I prejudice against alot of guns for unreasonable reasons.
But My reason is the feeling I have. Seeing western CQB CT's with some 'unknown, ... chinese weapons', or some specialized russian military weapons (Groza) just doesn't feel right, but seeing them with a P90, MP5/10, FN FNC, SIG551, or Steyr AUG feels **** right.


And what some people might to forget, R6 is a CT CQB unit, specialized in breaching, entering and clearing buildings and areas. Rescuing hostages and killing terrorists.
They are not a military unit with a fireteam and a machinegunner throwing fragmentation grenades into a room, before they enter it.

For that reason I would wish having no, NO fragmentation grenades in R6. Even if it is MP, imagine players would depend on pure direct firearm tatics, without to spam nades. That must be perfect. SWAT3 works good with that.

[GSG_9_Rage]

i liked machine guns. i know that they are not realistic, but they were fun in multi player. the reason noone used them is because we all had cmags, put that on a scoped gun and you have your machine gun. i perferrd the 21E over cmaged guns because of the power. it was cool to be the only guy using the 21E in servers too! :P

[Vadimnk]

Yeah I agree on the R6ers only using the special CT weapons. This is why I was sorta disapointed in not seeing the AK-103, or the AKS-74U.

I wana have enought weapons, but let them all be differen't from each other.

There is not point in having the Chinese weapons (no offense guys) but they are just remakes of already existing weapons that are much better.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Vadim, you're way to much into the AK business http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I personally would prefer the wooden grip AKM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And I think a SF unit would rather use the AKM going on a hostile area mission, than a new and clean AK103. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[eeid02]

Few of my own favorites.
SIG SG551
SIG P229 40S&W

I'd also like to see a 1911 pistol.
I would not mind seeing some AK,although it's not my preference.

[bangurdead1988]

+
Originally posted by Cpt.Cordalez:
Vdim, you're way to much into the AK business http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I personally would prefer the wooden grip AKM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And I think a SF unit would rather use the AKM going on a hostile area mission, than a new and clean AK103. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the point is that these Operatives are not from one country like a normal CT force would be, these operatives are made up of the best the other nations in NATO have to offer.

they are a Joint task force used to combat Major terrorist threats that the countries anti-terrorist forces themselfs are un-trained for or
ill-equiped for, besides which would be better, each nation of Nato having to keep their anti-Terrorist forces or Counter-Terrorist forces well funded or would it be easier to work together to have one super (in terms of equipment) CT force with tons of training or just a bunch of in-experianced task forces?

and as being such they are acustomed to their nations weapons from their special forces training and thats part of the reason you need such a diversified selection of weapons from all nations.

the reason I want a diversified field of weapons is because (ex.BF2 only 3 countries people *****ed about not having their country in the game) now you have people like Vadim (being a russian desendant in the US) he likes russian weapons, and I like some of the weapons he likes.

[Vadimnk]

Originally posted by Cpt.Cordalez:
Vadim, you're way to much into the AK business http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I personally would prefer the wooden grip AKM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And I think a SF unit would rather use the AKM going on a hostile area mission, than a new and clean AK103. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's probably the only thing to be proud of from Russia, lol.

Like bangurdead1988 said, since there are people from all over the place they tend to use whats theirs, since mostlikley they got trained with those weapons.

Now I my self tend to only keep to the AK's but I do like the ocassional M14 When firepower is needed, AK-103 pretty much anytime, Famas G2 when I need the feel of speeding weapons, the P90 which is extremely underpowered in this game, AS Val is also fun to play with (sorry guys you'll have to wait till the mod comes out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

[Tacamo]

You can be very proud of the Sukhoi Flanker family too. What a group of aircraft.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
And as being such they are acustomed to their nations weapons from their special forces training and thats part of the reason you need such a diversified selection of weapons from all nations.

the reason I want a diversified field of weapons is because (ex.BF2 only 3 countries people *****ed about not having their country in the game) now you have people like Vadim (being a russian desendant in the US) he likes russian weapons, and I like some of the weapons he likes.
Thats not the case in the book and even if R6 would be reality, it wouldn't be the case.

Whatever the operatives are trained on, R6 isn't their homeunit, so they use weapons the R6 logistic (the chefs) decide/equip them with.
They all use the silenced MP5/10 and Dingo Chavez decided to train them (all) on a .45 Beretta sidegun.
In R6 the operatives train on the R6 armory.

The one exception, as I allready said, are sniper rifles. Sniper rifles are more personal and specialized, the operative have to feel the weapon and know how it act in all situations.


Even if the game would have only he MP5/10 as primary SMG, a G36K as the single rifle, the FN FAL as the single large caliber weapon and the .45 Beretta, I swear I would be 100% fine with this. Iâ´m fine with the AA:O armory, aswell.


But since it is a game and not all players are so realism addicts like me I understand the need of a variety of firearms.
But this is no excuse to me to include all weapons from all over the world, that will make the game a ******ed weapon mod.
Sorry, even if I try, but I can't see any seriousity and logic in that. This is R6 keep it serious.

[bangurdead1988]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ok, Im not going to argue this out, but I feel that I should have the choice to choose what weapons that I can use, weither it be from the US,Germany,UK,Russia,Ect...

(I can't exactly explain this to my full ability)
the thing rainbow six gives me that keeps me interested in it instead of BF2,UTK,CS:S,Half Life2, Halo2, which are all great games, but they dont give me enough options, they don't give me a simi-realistic simulation, they don't give me a great fanbase that truley loves there game for the most part to make the game last over 3-4 years (to date there are still people playing Rogue Spear)

they are just point and click games, while not every aspect of Rainbow Six is realistic its meant to fill in the gap that those games don't or were never going to fill, a fun and realistic FPS that to date is the only series that has kept me interested more than a year...I have 50+ computer games that sit on my computer desk, some have been there since a month after I purchased them...those games include UTk 03&04,Half Life2 & CS:S, Halo, Delta Force, Soldier of Fortune,ect....

Rainbow Six is a scan, point, wait, take aim, shoot, scan, look behind, look around, think about what position to take next, scan, make sure the coast is clear, move to position, scan the surroundings, find someone moving, point, take aim, shoot, make sure hes dead...repeat... you get the idea, this series is by far the most original game to date to ever reach the market in my opinion because it....(speach less) is so Deep in Depth that you get taken in by the game...it makes my heart pulse with nerviousness when ever I'm in a clan match, or a really good match where my teammates are chearing me on, or on a LAN party. I can't think of words to comprehend and explain how massive this game is.


to sum it up
the thing about Rainbow Six is the ENDLESS Options, of equipment, of movement, of tactics, of skill, ect...there is basically no two experiances that happen the same every time.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

I also like the firearms option you have, but my point is; it should be kept realistic/serious. A variety of weapons, but not to many and only those a western CT would rather use, nothing else Iâ´m asking for.

What I like about R6 is, that it is not exactly military, nor police, but a unit still with the skill of military and the urban CQB missions of police SWAT, with a small variety of 'outdoor military type missions'.
And what I like about R6 too, that it is fictional. No patriotism bulls**t, no real life examples.

[bangurdead1988]

...duno, maybe we won't even need this thread anymore...the way letdown sold and return rate is...I dont know...hopefully we get some screen shots soon...or some **** awnsers that give us a dang clue on whats happening behind the closed curtain, barred windows and locked doors of ubi...seems the only thing they care about are keeping their share holders happy

[WhiteKnight77]

Originally posted by bangurdead1988:
...whats happening behind the closed curtain, barred windows and locked doors of ubi...seems the only thing they care about are keeping their share holders happy

The big thing is, Ubi knows that today's game market is so competitive, that they do not want to tip their hands to what they have as far as features to be able to "suprise" other development companies with what they have to offer.

Yes, Ubi wants to keep their shareholders happy, but they also try to keep their customers happy. That is one of the reasons why GR2 for PC was not released. Maybe the same will happen to Lockdown (that would really be a downer for RSE to have 2 games canned in one years time) and then RSE told as GRIN was told for GRAW for PC. I know who told whom what and he really needs to tell marketing to get bent and tell the studios to get with the program and get back to creating standard setting games that win awards.

Hopefully, the guys at RSE are reading these threads and are getting the message that we want more than what was offered the consoles. They need to know we want a thinking man's FPS and not a run of the mill shooter that people will forget about in a months time. RSE has released games that withstood the ravages of time in gaming and are still played regularly by gamers for the very reasons they were created. They need to get back to the "We make games that we want to play" (yes Greg, I know about those words) philosophy of game design that brought them success to begin with. Don't give Ubi a reason to have you can a second project. Give them a reason to have you complete the game, along with the fans, to buy Lockdown.

[bangurdead1988]

yeah, I understand that, but if they are trying to keep their customers happy they are failing extremly baddly.

most customers after seeing lockdown on the consoles are PIST...Console and PC hardcore Fans alike are pist and mad...and now what do we have to judge the PC version with besides the second closest thing to a PC the Xbox version which is A POS in my mind...is just a sell out.

the PC version shares code which if it dosent change ALOT of stuff and follows the Console path will not do well, I severly doubt that a large percentage of people is willing to Preorder this game after hearing and playing the console versions.

My hope for a new R6 game that Hits home to the series is serverly diminished after playing the console version and I fell like the hardcore fans were abondoned for a new larger majority that UBI would love to sell dumbed down run and gun shooters to just for a larger quicker buck or euro, ect... but they are sacrificing the series and fans that loved a closer well knit community instead of making a new series just for those fans, which in my mind is a extremely poor dicision on their part.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

What I absolutley don't check is; they are modmakers out there making kickass stuff in their freetime.
The Ubi devs are officially paid devs making it in their working time.

I rather blame the markting office than the devs for all what happend, but sorry, Raven Shield isn't the best of it's kind. They are weapon models, skins and animations made by modmakers on their home PC's that top Raven Shield's stuff in miles.

As said the marketing chefs might be the problem, giving the devs less time, but I don't accept this as an excuse for rather poor work.

On the other hand the pistols in Raven Shield are superb, the best models out there. Other things like the 1st person animatins when climbing ladders, the sounds when holstering weapons, all extremely good work.

And that's what sucks about Raven Shield, it combines good and bad work in one, that is very bad.


I just hope they can keep everything in the game high quality. I don't call Raven Shield bad at all, but simply not good enough.

[Tacamo]

In most games the models, skins, etc. usually aren't as good as the stuff made by the community. For the most part it's due to the fact that the game makers aim to have the game working on the maximum number of systems possible. It's more than typical for odjects/entities in mods to have much more polys than those of the default game. The other problem that can occur is the marketing department dictating when a game is completed versus the actual game makers stating when it's done. That's where the unpolished element of bugs, missing content and lower quality game design come into play.

[Cpt.Cordalez]

As said, I rather blame the marketing department.

Americas Army has some nice weapon models and animations, which I find one of the best. Battle Field 2 has probably the best weapon models and animations and the skins are superb. The ironsights are awesome, except they are often wrong.

Even if the marketing department dictates, they must be still a chance for high quality. It's not that all the same devs working on every part of the game, they have different people working on different parts.
They are the modelers, the skiners...

[Tacamo]

Yes that should definitely be a major consideration for a game. Unfortunately as I've learned and you probably have too, that's not always the case. If marketing manages to do their job properly they can sell a substandard game based primarily on hype alone. Maybe throw in some pretty videos and screen shots for added effect and voila! You can make a horrid game look great without any real gameplay. One of the main reasons I'm very weary of games without demos before it's released.

Unfortunately you kind of have to look at things this way. If automobile manufacturers are willing to produce vehicles with known defects and safety hazards simply to meet deadline and/or stockholder expectations. Why wouldn't a software company use the same methods especially if they don't have to worry about people dying as a result?

[LSD-Wrath]

ok since we got goggles now that show raindrops on them, i would expect blood to also sprinkle on them too. That way you know your partner has been shot... hehe...

scenario: Im 1 flight downstairs from my parter and he gets shot point blank... them i look up... whoa... i now have his blood on my lenses and i have to wander around the map that way, or until i find a cleanwipe. Too realistic? Isnt this game sposed to be? or should his blood magically disapear?

[GSG_9_Rage]

i think it should disappear along with the bodies, just like in 007 Goldeneye! that game is uber realistic!

(i'm in a very sarcastic mood taday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif)

[bang1988]

well, I'd still like to know whats going on with the PC version

(I was suspended for "ABUSE" funny no mod warned me to clean up or edited any of my posts as a nice little reminder would have said last edited by Bob on 9/XX/05)

[Vadimnk]

Originally posted by bang1988:
well, I'd still like to know whats going on with the PC version

(I was suspended for "ABUSE" funny no mod warned me to clean up or edited any of my posts as a nice little reminder would have said last edited by Bob on 9/XX/05)

I didn't see any abuse what the ****, what is happening in this world....