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IL-89
01-03-2006, 01:12 PM
Hi! I'm Russian gamer, and i cannot understand what does Sam do, when I press LMB after I captured enemy? Does he cut enemy using knife or break backbone by knee?
P. S. Sorry for my English - it's not perfect, I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)))

DucusSumus
01-03-2006, 02:10 PM
I always wondered about this to. It looks like he knees the enemy in the back to me. I'm not exactly sure how this is leathal, however.

psyichic
01-03-2006, 02:11 PM
break their neck. Atleast that's what its supposed to be. Its a tactic to break necks taught in hand to hand combat in the military. Although the real move requires the enemy to have a helmet strapped on.

IL-89
01-03-2006, 02:49 PM
Hm... I think he breaks neck too... As i could see blade of the knife was turned from the enemy.

CovertKi11
01-03-2006, 05:02 PM
My theory's that he knees his own elbow, ramming his blade up and along the enemy's spine. I can never switch the camera angle fast enough to prove it though.

IonG.O.D.
01-03-2006, 05:40 PM
I believe he knee's there back, while ramming the knife into there smine.

IL-89
01-03-2006, 05:40 PM
And nobody asked developers about this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)))?

IonG.O.D.
01-03-2006, 05:57 PM
If you get a reply, tell us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ninjashocker
01-03-2006, 06:48 PM
This is what it would appear to be:



b. Kidney Stab, Throat Cut. This technique relies on a stab to the kidney (Figure 7-2, Step 1) to induce immediate shock. The kidney is relatively accessible and by inducing shock with such a stab, the soldier has the time to cut the sentry's throat. The soldier completes his stalk and stabs the kidney by pulling the sentry's balance backward and downward and inserts the knife upward against his weight. The sentry will possibly gasp at this point, but shock immediately follows. By using the sentry's body weight that is falling downward and turning, the soldier executes a cut across the front of the throat (Figure 7-2, Step 2). This completely severs the trachea and carotid arteries.
http://www.wanderworks.com/chilichokers/Fig7-2.gif


It looks similar, but isnt accompanyed by a throat cut in the game. So maybe the devs made a mistake?

EDIT: Sorry if this is too graphic or whatever, mods can remove it if they like. But since everyone sees it in the video game anyways....

IonG.O.D.
01-03-2006, 07:42 PM
Nice, we finally know.

IL-89
01-04-2006, 09:23 AM
ninjashocker, Sam makes such trick when you press LMB WITHOUT grab, but after grab, i think, he breaks neck... By his right hand he just pushes enemy!

eTo-NoSiS106
01-04-2006, 01:55 PM
ive always hated that move, i generaly just knock them out and shoot them in the head instead because the move looks do dumb... ontop of the fact that it doesnt look lethal they aways land with their head in their croch and their *** in the air

but anyways, id have to agree with the knee/back break. sam does also say in one of the interrogations "are you going to cooperate or am i going to have to break your knees" but i imagine the devs just put it in so we could throw them off all the cliffs/balconies scattered throughout the game

(and face down into water ala bathhouse)

Op.shadowstrike
01-04-2006, 02:39 PM
To realy know some1 should go on coop with a friend and film all the action...

psyichic
01-04-2006, 03:01 PM
THAT IS IT! BRILLIANT! yes that picture is part of the section i read that included the sam neck break. Many of sam's moves are real life but they are incomplete and most likely so because it would take to long to kill them.

If you can find the page that is from and look further down you will see a move that looks almost identical with the same description of sam's neck break from grab except it states that the sentry must have a helmet on. and near that one there is a KO move that involves a sentry with a non buckled hlemet which involves using their helmet to whack em on the head.

Rain90_
01-04-2006, 03:22 PM
You simply give him a knee to the spine after you grabbed the guard. I always wondered if this is lethal in reality.

If you didn't grab him and do the same, then Fisher puts a hand around the mouth, foot to the backside of the knee causing the guard to sort of bend and then put a knife in the back.

Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

EdisLeado
01-04-2006, 08:05 PM
Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

Hey, what would YOU do if you got stabbed in the stomach with a knife? Or got your throat cut? OR get stabbed in the kidney? Hmm? HMM?! I dunno, really. But I bet it hurts... Alot. As the picture states, it puts the victim into shock. And since he's bleeding so much -- He dies.

BTW, where is that site with all of Sam's real moves? I want to see...

vega13
01-04-2006, 08:30 PM
thats a sweet picture

Spartan_M.A.D.
01-05-2006, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by EdisLeado:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

Hey, what would YOU do if you got stabbed in the stomach with a knife? Or got your throat cut? OR get stabbed in the kidney? Hmm? HMM?! I dunno, really. But I bet it hurts... Alot. As the picture states, it puts the victim into shock. And since he's bleeding so much -- He dies.

BTW, where is that site with all of Sam's real moves? I want to see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But what about the nonlethal ones. A punch to the face doesn't send me flying like that...

EdisLeado
01-05-2006, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Spartan_M.A.D.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EdisLeado:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

Hey, what would YOU do if you got stabbed in the stomach with a knife? Or got your throat cut? OR get stabbed in the kidney? Hmm? HMM?! I dunno, really. But I bet it hurts... Alot. As the picture states, it puts the victim into shock. And since he's bleeding so much -- He dies.

BTW, where is that site with all of Sam's real moves? I want to see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But what about the nonlethal ones. A punch to the face doesn't send me flying like that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a palm strike and if someone really stong did that to you -- You WOULD go flying, lol.

Rain90_
01-05-2006, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by EdisLeado:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

Hey, what would YOU do if you got stabbed in the stomach with a knife? Or got your throat cut? OR get stabbed in the kidney? Hmm? HMM?! I dunno, really. But I bet it hurts... Alot. As the picture states, it puts the victim into shock. And since he's bleeding so much -- He dies.

BTW, where is that site with all of Sam's real moves? I want to see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what I'd do precisely at that moment but I'm sure as hell not DEAD the second I get hit, which they do in CT(use the thermal vision and they get cold almost instantly).

I.S.F-Dixxhead
01-05-2006, 11:53 AM
That Palm Strike Sam does usually is lethal, since in reality it consists in ramming the bone of the nose into the targets brain... -.-

But is certainly not a knockout... Nor is the hit with the knee in your tummy... The only move that could realy knock you out is the hit on the sleve (sp? Schlefe in german) but again with a probablity of death.

Also the One-slit-one-kill thing is stupid. You can kill a man with one slit if you slit his throat... But certainly not by stabbing him in the back, in his torso or whatever. Sure as hell not instantly...
If someone where to stab me, I would scream since of the hellish pain and then turn around as quick as I could and try to kill him... that simple. I sure as hell wouldn't die instantly though.

andinsh
01-05-2006, 02:52 PM
Here's a good screen
So my version is:
1 - a stabb in the back(most likely the kidney - as mentioned)

2 - a kick below the knee, so that the target loses the balance and falls on the knife

? - MAYBE a neckbreak, not sure though (this could prevent the target of making any noise)

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/5834/sckill2wh.jpg

andinsh
01-05-2006, 02:57 PM
Small add: In the book "In the sign of the dragon" (I think it's called so in eng) T Clancey says that spec forces never slit a mans throat, because if done so - the man screems. Instead they usualy stab em in the back, so preventing any noise

EdisLeado
01-05-2006, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Rain90_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EdisLeado:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Overall, I find the CQC moves a little fake due to the fact they're all one-hit wonders. It might be real, but not that I know of.

Hey, what would YOU do if you got stabbed in the stomach with a knife? Or got your throat cut? OR get stabbed in the kidney? Hmm? HMM?! I dunno, really. But I bet it hurts... Alot. As the picture states, it puts the victim into shock. And since he's bleeding so much -- He dies.

BTW, where is that site with all of Sam's real moves? I want to see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what I'd do precisely at that moment but I'm sure as hell not DEAD the second I get hit, which they do in CT(use the thermal vision and they get cold almost instantly). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Palm strike is non-lethal. And in real life, the body heat would NOT go away that fast. In the game, it does it fast to show whether if he's dead or not.

psyichic
01-05-2006, 05:09 PM
WHat has been stated before is that his moves are partially lethal but not entirely, the reason they are not entirely is because they are incomplete moves. The kidney stab is supposed to be followed by a throat cut. The kidney stab alone may be lethal in the long run but it is not immediately lethal it does cause immediate shock but that is simply because I beleive of the nerve intensity the shock only lasts a little while about 10 secs I beleive but that is enough time to cut their throat. There is also another move that involes a move done by the SvM versus spies. Their KO move is part of a lethal move taught in that same document. It involes hitting a section of your collarbone with a hard object thus inducing a short temporary sock as seen with the Versus spies and atleast in Versus the KO per say only lasts a few seconds.

Op.shadowstrike
01-05-2006, 08:35 PM
You Guys under estimate the power of pain for the K.O. and what a broken back does...

Pain without any real important physicale damage can send you K.O.

and if you get ur back broken(higher that the stomac) ur diagraphg get paralize and you stop breathing... so you die

CovertKi11
01-05-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by EdisLeado:
Palm strike is non-lethal. And in real life, the body heat would NOT go away that fast. In the game, it does it fast to show whether if he's dead or not. Yes, palm strike is lethal if performed correctly. The nose is one of the weakest areas of facial bone structure. A blow pushing the nose upwards and backwards into the target's skull will either kill or terminally wound them. It's a sharp piece of cartilidge (sp?) being forced backwards into a soft, unprotected brain. I have been taught this in Jiu-Jitsu. (Fun fact, a blow going downwards aimed at the top of the nose will cause the sinuses to swell and create temporary blindness, don't ask me how, just what I was told.)


Originally posted by Op.shadowstrike:
and if you get ur back broken(higher that the stomac) ur diagraphg get paralize and you stop breathing... so you die Wrong, wrong, wrong. The nerves that control the better part of your autonomous functions (breathing, heartbeat, etc) branch off of the spinal cord right below your neck. Breaking the spinal cord below there will have no effect on breathing or heartbeat, aside from the general pain effect.

Op.shadowstrike
01-05-2006, 09:24 PM
My bad but still you will lose ur legs... thanks for correcting me

cooldude6681
01-06-2006, 12:22 AM
is it just me, or does it seem that in the above screenshot, Sam's knife is a little bit high to be stabbing kidneys? I don't know much about anatomy, but I thought the kidneys were lower in the abdomenhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif. Maybe he's puncturing the victem's lung? Just my thoughts.

andinsh
01-06-2006, 02:51 AM
does it seem that in the above screenshot, Sam's knife is a little bit high to be stabbing kidneys? I don't know much about anatomy, but I thought the kidneys were lower in the abdomen. Maybe he's puncturing the victem's lung?
Yeah, I noticed thet, and I thought about the lungs as well, but the I looked over and compered with that instruction drawing and it seemed wery alike. but it does seem a bit higer than the kidney...., maybe it's amed somewhere for the backbone or so...

CovertKi11
01-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by cooldude6681:
is it just me, or does it seem that in the above screenshot, Sam's knife is a little bit high to be stabbing kidneys? I don't know much about anatomy, but I thought the kidneys were lower in the abdomenhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif. Maybe he's puncturing the victem's lung? Just my thoughts. Now that you mention it ... you've got a point.

scworld
01-07-2006, 11:00 AM
Just note that 'How-to kill a guy ASAP' with detailed movements isnt really appropiated for the younger children around here. Read the rules if you dont believe me.

cooldude6681
01-10-2006, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by scworld:
Just note that 'How-to kill a guy ASAP' with detailed movements isnt really appropiated for the younger children around here. Read the rules if you dont believe me. Who was that directed at?

roninsd32
01-18-2006, 11:37 PM
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions here.

1. A palm strike to the nose will NOT kill someone. Neither the cartilage nor the nose bone is capable of penetrating the frontal bone protecting the brain. Most likely to happen is the eyes will water (and eventually blacken) and they will choke on some of their own blood that may drain through the sinus cavity.

2. The kidneys are a bit lower than depicted in that pic. If anything the stab would be to puncture a lung. This will prevent them from making much noise but only initially. This also will not kill a person too quickly. A finishing cut would be needed.

3. The chances of you "snapping" a person’s neck that isn't unconscious or too weak to defend them self is slim to none. There are roughly half a dozen ways to snap a persons neck and all of them require the "victim" to be in a condition where they can offer little to no resistance.

The hand on the neck could (and most likely is) an act of leverage coupled with the kick to the back of the knee to get the person at a less advantageous position so you can perform your duties.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch this is all pretty well known throughout the legit martial arts community. I've had 25 years of martial arts training and have been military police for 10. I can safely tell you that you are NOT going to kill a person with a palm strike to the nose, unless maybe you hit them with a sledgehammer.

http://www.anatomyatlases.org/atlasofanatomy/plate01/03innerorbit.shtml

http://www.righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/myths.htm

andinsh
01-19-2006, 10:52 AM
RESPECT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif