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View Full Version : Bring back the grace of SOT!



Prince7777
09-01-2005, 08:10 AM
Ok, we've all seen the latest videos, and so far the game looks really promissing, and have a lot of artistic and stylish elements. But there is one thing I can't take anymore! It's the first three slashes of the prince (when you press left click 3 times as there is no enemies) In SOT it was so gracious to look at the prince swirl around and do these moves! But in WW, it is just 3 simple slashes. I don't talk about the combos, just the first three slashes. There was a video of SOT showing this, it was a series of 6 slashes. What do you think?

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 08:10 AM
Ok, we've all seen the latest videos, and so far the game looks really promissing, and have a lot of artistic and stylish elements. But there is one thing I can't take anymore! It's the first three slashes of the prince (when you press left click 3 times as there is no enemies) In SOT it was so gracious to look at the prince swirl around and do these moves! But in WW, it is just 3 simple slashes. I don't talk about the combos, just the first three slashes. There was a video of SOT showing this, it was a series of 6 slashes. What do you think?

DrZapp
09-01-2005, 08:22 AM
So let me get this straight...your saying that in WW as you left click 3 times when there is no enemy there is no grace? and in sot when you left click 6 times there is grace?...right????

H-I-G
09-01-2005, 09:03 AM
Yeh i think the 6-shlashes combo in SOT was very cool and suited the prince's imago. I think the should bring that combo back in KB.

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 09:04 AM
This is exactly what I'm trying to say! And this fact reflects in the fights also. In WW, if you fight without the combos the prince does always the same 3 or 4 moves. So there's no grace at all, in contrast of SOT where the fighting is more stylish (as long as we compare the SOT to WW without the combos)

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 09:09 AM
They should bring back the 6 slash combo to the normal prince, and keep the 3 slash combo for the Dark prince.

ShadowPrince
09-01-2005, 09:20 AM
Yip,you're absolutely right!It was such a gracious move...You could left it unfinished,with the Prince's hand hanging in the air for some seconds,and then finish it.Very nice.

prince_pk
09-01-2005, 09:27 AM
Yeah, it looks like the prince is still ready to give a blow. It looks threatening too. But MANY of the graces of SOT are back as far as we know in pop3

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 09:49 AM
I'll try to find the clip where the prince shows off these 6 slashes... I'll give a link as soon as I find it.

princeofyo
09-01-2005, 10:21 AM
The Prince doesn't need grace in his attacks. He's trying to save his homeland, he doesn't need to be graceful.

It just won't look good for PoP3. The Prince is more Mature now, and the grace attack looks like he's dancing not fighting

ankewl
09-01-2005, 10:51 AM
Yeah he just made his 6 attack to 3 attack combo so that he saves time and looks more mature.. since he knew that he had to change in 7 years and had to become mature and all to save his homeland singlehandedly

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 10:52 AM
The prince is indeed more mature. But I'm sure he has learned since his fights in warrior within that it's not about beeing strong, but beeing graceful.

Not beeing graceful in your sword fights is to be on the evil side. This is why I think that the graceful moves (6 slashes) should be for the normal prince, and the 3 slashes of warrior within for the dark prince.

It's not about being angry, but to be in peace when you fight. And this suits the normal prince who tries to fight his dark side.

ankewl
09-01-2005, 10:54 AM
oh and the prince got sort of sick coz of spinning in a frenzy so he just quit doing it "gracefully"

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 10:59 AM
No, I think that the prince quit fighting gracefully because he was afraid, not because he had becaume more mature. He was afraid, and lost his patience, and didn't want to bother with grace while he was trying to save his life.

But now he starts to understand that he can fight his dark side with his grace.

mdstudios
09-01-2005, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Prince7777:
Ok, we've all seen the latest videos, and so far the game looks really promissing, and have a lot of artistic and stylish elements. But there is one thing I can't take anymore! It's the first three slashes of the prince (when you press left click 3 times as there is no enemies) In SOT it was so gracious to look at the prince swirl around and do these moves! But in WW, it is just 3 simple slashes. I don't talk about the combos, just the first three slashes. There was a video of SOT showing this, it was a series of 6 slashes. What do you think? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im totally with you!

I also liked how he held his position after swinging if you stopped in the middle of combate, its just made I good impression and showed that ubi really took there time to make the game good

I hope UBI SOFT takes this into consiteration

TahirMunir
09-01-2005, 11:04 AM
Ok. Actually what i think is that POP:SOT and POP:WW are two different type of games POP:SOT is a mixture of Action and Adventure and POP:WW is HIGH OCTANE COMBO FABULUS game.

I think the prince is designed carefully according to the requirements of both games.

In SOT prince is a noble soldier who never faced threats, so he has what you call GRACEFULL moves and attacks, but in WW our prince is completely changed he is a hardened warrior, more practical now thats why the moves are also changed, in WW he has some dangerous, killer moves. The 6 slash combo in SOT does not suit with the personality of prince in WW. in WW he can perform 4 slash combo which is a good combination with his new style. The 4 slashes of WW looks extremely nice with scorpion and water swords.

In POP:KB he has a new role and he is a fugitive now thats why he is now using speed kill system to deal with his new enemies.

6 slashes of POP:SOT are great according to that game but if they are implemented in POP:KB i am sorry to say but they will not match.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/TahirMunir/NEWSIG2.jpg

ankewl
09-01-2005, 11:10 AM
well if truth be told in SOT the prince only knew basic combat moves as he was under the watchful eye of his daddy as he was a brat.. but later in WW he had to escape from the deadly force which kept stalking him and he had to learn seasoned moves which made him look like he was a MAN

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The 6 slash combo in SOT does not suit with the personality of prince in WW. in WW he can perform 4 slash combo which is a good combination with his new style. The 4 slashes of WW looks extremely nice with scorpion and water swords. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why I Keep saying that the normal prince should have back the 6 slashes combo, and the dark prince the 3 or 4 slahses combo of warrior within?

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I also liked how he held his position after swinging if you stopped in the middle of combate, its just made I good impression and showed that ubi really took there time to make the game good

I hope UBI SOFT takes this into consiteration </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am totally with you to, I hope Ubi sees this tread!

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">well if truth be told in SOT the prince only knew basic combat moves as he was under the watchful eye of his daddy as he was a brat.. but later in WW he had to escape from the deadly force which kept stalking him and he had to learn seasoned moves which made him look like he was a MAN </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It also made him look like he was a brute. An epic hero has to be graceful, and not fight like an animal. And an epic hero is what ubi wants to do with the prince this time around.

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:21 AM
Clip that shows some of the grace (http://streamingmovies.ign.com/ps2/princelymonday_03_free.wmv?wu=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.p s2.ign.com%2Fmedia%2F535%2F535909%2Fvid_587260.htm l%3Fmu%3D%3CURL%2F%3E)

Ok I've got a clip, even if it doesn't show the 6 slashes, it shows the grace while the prince swrils around, and helds his arm up a while before striking. Grace that an epic hero should have.

Azael1983
09-01-2005, 11:24 AM
An epic hero HAS to be graceful? I'm sorry, I do not agree with you at all. For example, if you were in say, medieval times and someone just saved your village from a band of rampaging murderers, would you go up to him/her and say "Yeah, saving our lives was great and all, but could you be a bit less vicious about it? Try swinging your swords like this..." I don't think so!
You must have realized, its not someone's look or attitude, its their caliber, their heart, their motivation and objective which makes them an epic hero.
You are completely wrong about this in my opinion, but its just that, my opinion, and you are entitled to yours.

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:24 AM
Does anyone knows the link for the clip where the prince made his 6 slahes as there was no enemies... It was a movie of the official sands of time site, but I can't find it ...

ankewl
09-01-2005, 11:27 AM
777 sadly they wont do it.. I mean even I liked those moves but that god damm warrior within bloody changed all the good parts of SOT and now we can never get those fighting movements back. Unless that is they would listen to the fans...
*ankewl looks at ubisoft*

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You must have realized, its not someone's look or attitude, its their caliber, their heart, their motivation and objective which makes them an epic hero. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally disagree with you. An epic hero is not a monster. An epic hero has compation, and love. An epic hero cares about grace when he fights because is mind is in peace. As you say, this is my opinion. But you should watch the lord of the rings. In that movie, even if the people of middle earth is suffering, all the caracters on the good side have grace, Gandalf, legolas, even Aragorn. So I stand with my opinion: An epic hero must be graceful.

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:30 AM
Don't worry ankewl, there is always hope!

TahirMunir
09-01-2005, 11:33 AM
HE HE HE.

When your city is attacked by an evil army what will you do ?

1. Fight with all your abilities and powers.
2. Show grace in your attacks.

EPIC hero does not mean that prince is back with sands of time moves. It means he is a practical and responsible person now, selfless guy who does not think about his own benefit but for others, but he is still a warrior for his enemies.

I dont think that prince fights as brute. Its natural a person who has so many incidents and loses in life definately respond in this manner.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/TahirMunir/NEWSIG2.jpg

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">EPIC hero does not mean that prince is back with sands of time moves. It means he is a practical and responsible person now, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I hope ubi makes sure that the fighting techniques of the prince reflects this statement. Because when you're responsible you care about things, and you care about the image that your enemies, and especially your dark side will have of you. And we can fight evil with grace, and we can weaken the ennemie by not showing them our weakenesses.

Zapages
09-01-2005, 11:45 AM
All I'll say is that all will be revealed in given time... Until then just enjoy all the things that are being released. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 12:04 PM
Sorry zapages, I did'nt know I could send a poll in this topic, but how can I do that? Do I enter in my topic and click new and then poll? Is it not going to be in the general area if I do this?

Zapages
09-01-2005, 12:13 PM
This topic discusses the same subject matter as your poll did... So in the end there's no need for a poll when this topic is discussing the samething as your poll was intending to.

TahirMunir
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
A responsible person cares about innocents that prince is doing already, he is fighiting for his homeland and people.

But this does not mean that you have to care about your enemies too, you have to treat your enemies in the manner they deserve, if you remember Prince7777 in Warrior Within, prince was very upset by the truth that one will die between himself and kaileena. He also tried his best to convince kaileena that he mean no harm to her, he just want to save himself from dahaka, but when kaileena simply does not listen to him he have to kill her in the second ending.

It means that prince care about innocents and he also try to save them.

On the other hand shahdee destroyed the ship and killed the companions of prince, so the prince killed shahdee in the manner she deserved.

so i think prince is not brutal, infact he do what is needed to be done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/TahirMunir/NEWSIG2.jpg

gorilla325
09-01-2005, 12:27 PM
i don't want the old gracious movements, i want new ones.

mm...but with the old gracious movements, i would like to have a dancing sequence in the game, that would be cool...

i don't think prince should have gracious movements in the pop3, since he just had a wild ride from island of sand, how could he change back to the old movements. but if new movements is develped, i think i will take it.

dark prince i think will fight more brutally, the dev team will implement that, no doubt.

gorilla325
09-01-2005, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TahirMunir:
A responsible person cares about innocents that prince is doing already, he is fighiting for his homeland and people.

But this does not mean that you have to care about your enemies too, you have to treat your enemies in the manner they deserve, if you remember Prince7777 in Warrior Within, prince was very upset by the truth that one will die between himself and kaileena. He also tried his best to convince kaileena that he mean no harm to her, he just want to save himself from dahaka, but when kaileena simply does not listen to him he have to kill her in the second ending.

It means that prince care about innocents and he also try to save them.

On the other hand shahdee destroyed the ship and killed the companions of prince, so the prince killed shahdee in the manner she deserved.

so i think prince is not brutal, infact he do what is needed to be done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/TahirMunir/NEWSIG2.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not agreeing with you, brutal is still brutal...no matter what reason behind it... brutality will never be the necessary way to do things. brutality is what prince choose to do. he became a cruel man, now, it's farah's job to change that.

gracious movements will not fit the game well now, since they already destroyed the gracious feel of sot. the aim for the fight is to be effective and fast. the aim for the sot game is not fighting, puzzle, story and platform are. sot is a totally different game from the other two. it should not be compared.

Crouching.Tiger
09-01-2005, 12:40 PM
are you back from Ubi now, Zain? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

well, I think the battles overall was more graceful (vaults and everything) and nicer to WATCH in SoT, but the battles in WW was funnier to PLAY. of course, it'd be nice if it was both fun and graceful, but if I have to choose I'd take the fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

princeofyo
09-01-2005, 01:48 PM
Prince7777 I just don't understand how you think the 3 slashs is brutal. If you where fighting someone would you spin around. The 6 slash takes so much longer and looks more like he's dancing. And as Gorilla325 said how would it look if the Prince suddenly just went back to doing that graceful move. A true fighter wouldn't spin around since he could lose his balance very easily.

The graceful moves worked for SoT because that game wasn't very dark. PoP 3 got less darker but it still won't fit.

ericthestampede
09-01-2005, 02:07 PM
someone posted this long time ago and im posting it again the 3 slash combo was to short the 6 slash combo was almost perfect but i think he should bacicly have an endless combo because if you swing a sword and your deffending your life then your not going to stop at ten or less. but then again it is a game so it doesnt have to be so realistic the 6 slash combo was much better and gracful but if ubi does bring that back then how is it going to work in the fffs. some things in sot you have to let go and if they make much better combos then ill be doing them all day so lets not worry about things that wont ruin the game but more on things that will make the game better. now this is my opinion not a fact every one has somthing to say well just have to wait and se who ubisoft listens to.

sorry for the lecture http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Prince7777
09-01-2005, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Prince7777 I just don't understand how you think the 3 slashs is brutal. If you where fighting someone would you spin around. The 6 slash takes so much longer and looks more like he's dancing. And as Gorilla325 said how would it look if the Prince suddenly just went back to doing that graceful move. A true fighter wouldn't spin around since he could lose his balance very easily. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mean it was brutal, the 3 slashes were just not made in a graceful way (at least, they could have made the prince keep his positions a little longer after each slash, like he hold his arm up for a second in SOT)

And I agree that the exact same moves as in SOT won't fit POP3, but I really liked when the prince kept his position after each strike in SOT. In WW, when you click once, the prince makes the first slash and goes back to his initial position, and you have to click three times fast enough to have the 3 slash combo. It felt as ther was no fighting tehnique at all, but just 3 slashes.

ericthestampede
09-01-2005, 02:44 PM
what about the endless combo?

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2005, 02:49 PM
ur thing is sooooooooooooooooooooooo cool in ur sig eric and also i agree with the person who says every hero doesnt have to b elegant

FCY-JMDK-WLKY
09-01-2005, 02:51 PM
Unfortunately it's also not allowed, so it's now removed. One sig will suffice.

ericthestampede
09-01-2005, 02:53 PM
okay i wont do it any more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

edit
i did this just for you COMEBLASTER http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PrinceOfRussia
09-01-2005, 03:23 PM
personally I thought the princes slash combo in SOT was pretty dumb, ESPICALLY the part where he spins around, that's just stupid.

ericthestampede
09-01-2005, 06:42 PM
well we all think differently. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2005, 08:06 PM
ROFLMMFAO!!!!!! that wuz great....wow u guys r really picky on sigs and stuff....y do u care about sigs

PrinceOfRussia
09-01-2005, 09:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ericthestampede:
well we all think differently. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey uh, what's the point of pointing out the obvious? Yeah, it's no **** that not everyone in the world thinks the same, are you trying to say my opinion is inferior? Or is this for self content because otherwise you feel your opinion is getting monopolized by my own. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

malaysheba
09-01-2005, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrinceOfRussia:
personally I thought the princes slash combo in SOT was pretty dumb, ESPICALLY the part where he spins around, that's just stupid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
but sot gave you more of a mythical feeling right?it really drags you into that little persian world and that gives you a more sort of desire feeling to get that saga to continie. if only they'd done like that in ww instead of having that stupid 'mature' themehttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif don't you think the music, the graphics and the storyline much better than ww?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif and yeah i guess you're right, his fighting skills in sot was abit ******ed.

ankewl
09-02-2005, 02:48 AM
Lets hope for the best

Prince7777
09-02-2005, 06:58 AM
So who does agree that in warrior within they should have at least made the prince keep his position a while after each slash so we dont have to click 3 times a bit fast in order to get the three slash combo?

Azael1983
09-02-2005, 10:00 AM
How about...no.
Do you really care so much about how he attacks? Personally, when I look at someone I don't watch how they move or fight in order to determine who they are, or what kind of a person they are. If I may make a Biblical reference, King David was a very brutal leader, and he was not only related to Jesus, but he became a Saint! You cannot determine anything about someone through their methods or fighting styles, so why are we bothering to talk about how the Prince's movements reflect his personality? Prince7777, I'm beginning to think this topic is a waste of time, please redeem yourself.

Prince7777
09-02-2005, 12:31 PM
I'm just trying to say that these little details make a great game. For example, in the begining of warrior within when the prince had a stick to fight, it still sounded like a sword when he put it back on his back. And in SOT, the way the prince kept his position after a slash showed that the devloppers took time to think about these details. Warrior within was a great game, because the enviroment had a lot of details, and the fight were more elaborated but the prince was kind of left over.

Anyway, I think your're right that this topic is becoming a waste of time. However the prince fights in POP3, i'm going to buy this game cause it looks so cool!

princeofyo
09-02-2005, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Azael1983:
How about...no.
Do you really care so much about how he attacks? Personally, when I look at someone I don't watch how they move or fight in order to determine who they are, or what kind of a person they are. If I may make a Biblical reference, King David was a very brutal leader, and he was not only related to Jesus, but he became a Saint! You cannot determine anything about someone through their methods or fighting styles, so why are we bothering to talk about how the Prince's movements reflect his personality? Prince7777, I'm beginning to think this topic is a waste of time, please redeem yourself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Azael11983, this is on page three and the thread hasn't been around for that long. So I guess most people don't think this is a waste of time. I don't think the prince's move should be that graeful but I still respect what other people would like...it would be nice if you did the same.

PrinceOfRussia
09-02-2005, 08:04 PM
WTH? Once again, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they don't respect yours, but in all honesty, why should I respect someone who dislikes the WW Prince's moves because he doesn't twirl? What the hell kinda stradegy is to twirl? If the monsters in SoT weren't ******ed they woulda pwn3d his twirly self. WW Prince is a master swordsman, he does things right. WW WAS a better game than SoT, and no SoT didn't emerge me more, 'twas way too linear and killing enemies toke too much time.

where.is.persia
09-02-2005, 11:58 PM
LOL THIS THREAD IS SILLY!!

prince777, aren't there more important tiny details than the single button combo "grace". id prefer they'd focus on character models or water effects or even sound effects than bringing back every single unimportant detail of SOT. SOT was a great game in its own right, no need to make another one exactly like it.

Prince7777
09-03-2005, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">WTH? Once again, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they don't respect yours </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">WTH? Once again, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they don't respect yours </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but I respect people, I don't respect opinions, and this is the way things should be. You just can't say: oh, this is your opinion, and this is mine... You have to say why you don't like other peoples opinions.

So since some people don't think it's a waste of time, How many people think that the free form fighting of dark prince and the normal prince should not be the same... Meaning that the normal prince should be more graceful, but not exactly as in SOT, and the dark prince more brutal in his FFF.

bitebug2003
09-03-2005, 04:31 PM
This will be the only time I will warn you.

You either:

Stop the bickering

Or the thread will be closed

Prince7777, if you don't want to respect other Members opinions, then please don't post anymore in this thread.

likeitsme
09-04-2005, 04:49 AM
Hmmm... Now that things have calmed down...

I saw videos of SoT and WW on stuckgamer.com, and I have to admit, there is a certain, much smoother 'flow' to the prince in SoT. The prince in WW makes these very repetitive moves, where if you keep hitting the X button he jumps into the air and slashes once, then comes down, and slashes again...and its not very effective at all either... At least in SoT, you can see the prince make a repetitive move, but he handles himself easily afterwards, he doesn't stumble or fall like the prince in WW does...
So yea, I'd prefer if they have a bit more animation to the prince in KB. Just so after making a cool move, he handles himself like he can in SoT...

One thing which is a bit unrelated here, the Ubisoft development team said that we might as well not expect a SoT 1.5, and deal with what we have. Has it actually occured to them that we WANT an SoT 1.5?! If WW was so story orientated, I wanted to see WHY... I've said it in previous posts as well. Wouldn't it have been so great if we could see the first time the prince faced the Dahaka? At least they could give us some IDEA! But yea... Wishful thinking if something like that happens at such a late stage now... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

PrinceOfRussia
09-04-2005, 09:16 AM
BoPOP for DS = SoT 1.5

likeitsme
09-04-2005, 02:36 PM
I mean SoT 1.5 in the sense that the design of SoT be extended in the sequel. BoPoP is a card game, and looks like an ugly little 'action/adventure'... I was expecting something COOL like Mario 64 DS, but noooo... they have to make it ugly.
So yea, SoT 1.5 in terms of design, not story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TahirMunir
09-04-2005, 03:24 PM
Well, this topic is getting complicated, all i can say is that every one has his or her own views and concepts.

In SOT prince has more princely moves or you can say gracefull moves but in WW prince has more mature moves, that looks cruel to some people, but a person who has faced such hard circumstances in life certainly become violent, that is why i am satisfied with his moves and styles.

But as i said earlier, every one has his or her views, so please calm down every one there is no need to rash. UBISOFT certainly release a very good game as SOT and WW.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/TahirMunir/NEWSIG2.jpg

Prince7777
09-05-2005, 12:40 PM
I'am really sorry if I offended anyone, it was not my goal. But likeitsme has a really good point, that the prince in SOT has more of a natural smoohther flow. This is what I miss in WW.

Even If they wanted to make the prince more violent, they should have at least made the moves more natural.

nycdre62090
09-05-2005, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Azael1983:
An epic hero HAS to be graceful? I'm sorry, I do not agree with you at all. For example, if you were in say, medieval times and someone just saved your village from a band of rampaging murderers, would you go up to him/her and say "Yeah, saving our lives was great and all, but could you be a bit less vicious about it? Try swinging your swords like this..." I don't think so!
You must have realized, its not someone's look or attitude, its their caliber, their heart, their motivation and objective which makes them an epic hero.
You are completely wrong about this in my opinion, but its just that, my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree with you. It's not about the way you look that makes you an epic hero. It's all about the goal you're trying to achieve...and WHY you want to achieve that goal. I'm sorry...but GRACE does not make you a hero hahaha. You can have a lot of grace in you're attacks...but STILL fail to achieve the goal. Does that make you an epic hero? lol nope. I think that it's smart the way the prince changed his fighting style. Much easier to act quickly. Why should a hero be caught up with having grace in his moves? Think about the BIGGER factor here. Oh yea...and i found a link for the "graceful" moves lol. But it's not from SOT...but from the WW work in progress version...before they changed the fighting style. Just give me a minute to get it.

nycdre62090
09-05-2005, 01:21 PM
okay...here's a link to the work in progress version of warrior within...before they changed the fighting style. It's the E3 video all the way at the bottom.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/princeofpersia2/media.html

likeitsme
09-05-2005, 07:09 PM
Hmmm... He doesn't have that 'hesitant' feel to him in that video, at least not too much...
That scene depresses me though... WW came with such promise and I was like, 'O COOL, SHIP LEVEL!' and playing that level was SO much fun, the Shadhee fight was perfect. Later on, we got to be stranded on the island, and the enemies kept reappearing, and it kept getting more difficult...ahhh I don't want to talk about it!

Another thing that sort of bothers me... He kills that GIANT thrall, and gets only one measly sand tank? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

EDIT: Well, grace counts as a factor. I think the main idea that people are trying to convey here is that a King is a noble and wise person, and every gesture should be graceful and calculated to reflect that. That's why a King has to have a more graceful persona, compared to a prince, who can be reckless because he doesn't have wise decisions to make. So, it's more a question of design, where you can allude the graceful gestures to the person's wisdom and nobility.... Get what I mean? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mdstudios
09-05-2005, 07:22 PM
OMG, that old fighting combo is soo much better than what they have now! I hope they change it back to that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Prince7777
09-06-2005, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's all about the goal you're trying to achieve...and WHY you want to achieve that goal. I'm sorry...but GRACE does not make you a hero hahaha. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't agree, because this sentence seems to say that what ever the way you do it, it is your goal that counts... Does that mean that an orc from the lords of the rings could be an epic hero? I mean, look at all the movies about epic heros out there, lord of the rings, spider man... the grace is here... If there is no grace, then, you are not on the good side.

And that clip was really great, they just had to make new moves for the prince to fit WW, but instead they just made it unatural.

bob0848
09-06-2005, 11:21 AM
Ok now i rarely post, if ever infact unless I strongly disagree with someone... Prince7777, congratulations, im posting =]

As far as im concerned, a fighting style is a fighting style. It is a tool, not a defining factor on a Wo/man. Sure its a geeky comment, but if your saying; which i believe you are, 'Heroes fight with grace & style'; your inherently incorrect. Let me tell you why (im backing my view up with a fact, if you want to be taken more seriously in a debate, do the same...), lets take a classic Hero / Villain fighting sample; Star Wars Jedi & Sith battles. Im very sure that Sith fight with as much grace & finesse as Jedi, sometimes more so. Does this make them a Hero? Jedi can sometimes fight aggressively & brutally jab & their opponents. Does this make them brutal? The obvious answer to that is no, it does not.

Hero's in LotR, i see your point, these characters fighting styles are graceful, they have finesse & its awe inspiring to see them fight. But also, you've got to remember they were portraying good vs evil in that series, in the PoP world, there is no such concept.

Spiderman... ahh how i love the comics, movies, cartoons etc. His fighting style is resfreshingly powerful & graceful. But then again, they try & portray this... afterall, he can hop across rooftops & has the genetic coding / abilities of a Spider... The Prince could very well be one of us, he's a human, a man, a prince, & a warrior... theres nothing special about this combination; he's fighting to survive in both SoT & WW.

Ok then, ive played both games & enjoyed both styles of play... i enjoy the story & enjoy the immersion. Where im going with this is; in SoT, the Prince was young, naive & (correct me if im wrong but) fresh out of combat training. He was a prince, trained to fight with grace, finesse & pride. Lets move on 7 years to WW. By this time he has killed all of his compatriates from his quest for the SoT, he has been hunted, mercilessly from an immortal Demigod (Dahaka = a Babylonian Demigod / Guardian). After these conditions, i expect he has grown up, matured, grown cynical & become highly efficient at disemberment i would assume. He is, at this stage in the timeline, fighting for survival, not a purpose. He wants to live & will do anything for it, that is not a Hero, that is an ordinary man fighting the odds to preserve his own life; selfishness if you ask me.

(new paragraph for ease of reading)
During his battles on the Isle of Time, he had noone to impress, no values to uphold, & a burning desire to survive at *all* costs. Of course he is not going to be fighting with as much grace as possible, that is the last thing on his mind.

If i decided to attack you on sight, would you attempt some fancy block or spin in the name of grace... or your values? The answer again, is rhetorical; of course you wouldn't... i would not give you the option to prance about like a ninny, i'd be out to hurt you & the only way you would stop me is by counteracting with as much, if not more ferocity.

So absically, im summing this up by repeating myself once more. Slovenly kills mean quick death for the user under these circumstances. The Prince is not going to be wasting time on the pleasantries of etiquette. He is going to quickly kill his opponent in order to preserve his own safety.


& FINALLY (1 last apragraph, i promise, i must be boring the heck out of you... if anyone is still reading http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) This is why i found the change in combat style impressive, it mimiced the prince's situation perfectly. The Prince may be an Epic Hero... but he is still, just a man, he is fighting for his own survival, & now, the freedom of his people. He is going to butcher this enemy for these principals. Hence the Dark Prince... his life has been altered so tremendously, he has developed a kind of schitzophrenia; The naive, young prince who is still fighting for the good of his life & people, & the Dark Prince, who is doing the same, but doing it with vindiction & spite.

Both are Heroes, whether they mean to be or not. But their actions are repercussions of a life of hardship & suffering.

I believe in Newtons third law of motion, a Force will always = a reaction force.

In this case, the enemy is hitting the prince, the prince is going to react & push harder http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Prince7777
09-06-2005, 11:51 AM
bob0848, I would like to tell you that I really enjoyed reading your long comments, because you took the time to argue by making references to what I had said previously.

English is not my native language, so I'm not always able to explain exactly what I think.

Anyway, you wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hero's in LotR, i see your point, these characters fighting styles are graceful, they have finesse & its awe inspiring to see them fight. But also, you've got to remember they were portraying good vs evil in that series, in the PoP world, there is no such concept. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And also:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Both are Heroes, whether they mean to be or not. But their actions are repercussions of a life of hardship & suffering. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well first of all, I think you also saw the latest video, in wich the guy says that both princes have the same goal, wich is to liberate babylone. And I think this is why you wrote what I have highlited above (correct me if I'm wrong) But, if you've seen the first E3 videos, the guy who was presenting the game said that the Dark prince is the image of what the prince hates about himself, his weaknesses, his fears, similar to anybody's dark side.

Now, If the Dark prince is an incarnation of what the prince hates about himself, is it not evil? So if it is evil, than we have the concept of good vs evil in POP3. Both princes may have the same goal, but The Dark prince is the way that the normal prince will regret... I mean the dark prince is trying to push the normal prince to the evil side.

In your message you also mention the good and evil in Star wars... I would rather say that the dark side is not really evil, it is extremism, because both sides belive in the force and make use of it... It is like religion, and the dark side took it to the extreme... a little like what happens now with the islamists.

bob0848
09-06-2005, 12:14 PM
Very good points that i failed to address! I enjoy a good forum discussion. And don't worry, your English is tip-top http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

This is where it all comes down too however; the definition of evil:
(Noun)
1)Morally objectionable behavior;
2)That which causes harm or destruction or misfortune;
3)The quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice.

(Adjective)
1)Morally bad or wrong;
2)Having the nature of vice;
3)Tending to cause great harm;
4)Having or exerting a malignant influence.

Now with those clear definitions of the term Evil, lets analyse the Light Prince ('good') & the Dark Prince ('evil').

Upon reading the above definitions of Evil, you could in some contexts call the Prince during SoT & WW evil.

Also however, the Dark Prince does not always exert a certain evilness; Morally objectionable behaviour. Is he not fighting for the same ideals as the Prince?

This is a difficult topic to comprehend as the outcome will greatly draw from our own notions of what are the limits of good & evil.

Although the Dark Prince is the opposite from the Light prince & the exact quote is 'tainted by the Sands of Time' it begs the question, what part about the Sands of time themselves are evil? I personally believe as an item or tool, them in themselves are not evil, therefore it makes me question how they can taint the Prince? My answer is that they havent. The Prince of Persia is tained from his experiences, every time he kill's he is losing morality, as is natural in seasoned warriors. In my eyes, this is losing his soul.

Now where im heading with this is that if the Prince is tained slightly from all of this fighting & he is exposed to the Sands of Time is it not possible that although the Princes are not opposites, but the same being? Allow me to explain. What if the Sands enhanced the Princes inner corruption, sped time on his decaying soul? this would end in his complete corruption, complete lack of morality, & and overall change in self.

I believe the only reason the prince 'hates' his 'other' self, the only thing he hates is seeing his own corruption. If you have ever read 'The Portrait of Dorian Grey' by Charles ****ens, you will understand this concept.

Also this would explain the more aggressive nature... the more you kill, the more you will grow accustomed to death, hence performing more horrific kills would not seem as terrible as if it was your first time.

So no, i do not believe the Dark Prince is Evil... i believe he is the eventuality of the Light Princes' path and a metaphor for the corruption within us all.

Does this make sense?

Prince7777
09-06-2005, 12:43 PM
well, bob0848 I'm really impressed by your skills and your way of analysing a dilemma. If every one could argue like you, there would be no war on this planet!

Anyway, let's get back to our discussion:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Allow me to explain. What if the Sands enhanced the Princes inner corruption, sped time on his decaying soul? this would end in his complete corruption, complete lack of morality, & and overall change in self. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I've understood, you're trying to say that the the sands are not evil by themselves, but they are kind of a catalyst of the inner corruption of the prince? Well, that makes sense to me... In other words, the sands could be acting like the ring in the Lord of the rings. Which would mean that we all have the selfish and arogant behavior, but we supress these behaviors, and that the ring, or the sands alters our capability of supressing those and pushes us to corruption and wrong doing.

But corruption itself it is not from the evil?
The definition of coruption is:
impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : DEPRAVITY b : DECAY, DECOMPOSITION c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery)

this comes along with the third définition of evil. Then, that would mean that a corupted person in automaticaly evil, this by the definitions we have found.

Now if we look at a simpler case: I wan't to have some money to buy myself a new game. Now the corupted side says don't buy it, download it, but my good side says that I should work, earn money and then buy the game becaused people have worked for this. In this situation, the graceful way of having the game is to work and earn money. And the disgraceful way is to download it. We see that even if my two sides are trying to get to the same goal, I won't get any respect if I download the game. I won't be an epic hero.

Now If the prince wants to liberate babylone, and he does this gracefully, then he will be an epic hero. But if he does that in a way to feed his corrupted side, who tells him not only to kill his ennemies, but to mutilate them, and not to show any grace in his fighting technique, then he won't be an epic hero...

And bob0848, it is a pleasure to argue with you....

Prince7777
09-06-2005, 12:58 PM
But I know that a lot of people like the fights in warrior within and this is why I say the normal prince should be graceful, and the dark prince more violent like in Warrior Within. This would make a good contrast between the normal and corrupted prince, and also please to both fans of SOT and WW

bob0848
09-06-2005, 01:04 PM
"well, bob0848 I'm really impressed by your skills and your way of analysing a dilemma. If every one could argue like you, there would be no war on this planet!" - I would not be so sure, i have my own Dark Prince within me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thirdly i agree to disagree with you on the concept of Corruption being inevitably Evil. This is because that would in turn mean that all politicians or children who cheat on test's to be 'evil'. Lets hope thats not the case =]

I believe that to an extent, everyone is tainted within, for example racial bigotry, religious persecution or even if it is simply a short temper. This being said, it is possible that both Princes are evil, but at different degree's.

Death / killing in short could be considered evil, in any regards, whether or not the intentions were selfless.

I believe that although the Prince believes he is the saviour of Babylon, he is the reason it has fallen into chaos.

By his refusal to die, due to his selfish nature, he has condemned the people of Babylon, Kaileena, Farah & his father to purgatory.

Does this make the Prince evil? Im unsure personally... I certainly would of taken his path had it been me; and i would like to think i am not evil.



EDIT: As i only just read your latest post :P

That is what im trying to say however, both Princes are Corrupted, just the Dark Prince is further corrupted, or the future light Prince.

bob0848
09-06-2005, 01:07 PM
Its been a pleasure arguing with you too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry about my arguements getting less & less descriptive & my posting etiquette becoming less inspiring, i had a hard day at school http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


P.S just to dispell adult misconceptions on 'Children' & teenagers, im only 16 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ankewl
09-07-2005, 03:43 AM
okay I didnt read any of that... 0.0

bob0848
09-07-2005, 08:41 AM
That is because your either lazy / naturally ignorant.

Also why bother telling us you didn't read it? Is there any need for Spam like that? No... if you were a poster on the OE boards, i would of banned you for half the useless posts you make.

/endrant

OH_DragonBoy
09-07-2005, 11:35 AM
I'm getting confused by the way everyone wants the Prince to change again.
I mean, people are saying "okay, now that Warrior Within is over, he can go back to being nice and lovable again". PoP3 is directly after Warrior Within, or so I've heard. I don't see how the Prince would change from being a hardened warrior back to being a graceful dancer of the blades.
He would, naturally, remain the Warrior from PoP2 for years after the event. I mean, he spent SEVEN years being chased by the incarnation of death, and the moment it's all over, he wipes his hands, and walks off whistling the latest Godsmack song? It isn't the sort of thing to just forget about. What the Prince has been through would have a simelar effect to being raped, watching someone you loved die, or being experimented on in a horrible prison (it could happen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) - it is likely that the Prince is to remain dark and angry for years to come. If it isn't the experience itself that makes it difficult to become peaceful again, it would be the fact that the experience is over, and that he is having trouble adjusting to normal life again.
I don't agree with people saying that the Dark Prince is evil. To me, there is no such thing as evil, really. Evil is a label created by religion and people who see life in two colors: black and white. It's all about influence. the Dark Prince is Dark because he is everything the Prince loathes and hates about himself. If the Prince loathed and hated the fact that he liked pink bunnies that wore tophats, technically, wouldn't the Dark Prince turn out like a wuss, or even a bunny that wore a tophat (unlikely, but still...)? Then he wouldn't be evil, but he would still be the things that The Prince loathes and hates about himself.
I personally think that grace is not as useful as people think it is. It's pretty to watch, but it doesn't work half as well as clever fighting skills. For instance, even the fighting of Warrior Within. It was pretty useless in places, although it did look nice [when he began spinning on his hands].
Personally, I'm sick of the stereotypical graceful hero. People don't need to be graceful to be good. Not that the word "Good" actually has any real meaning these days...

At the end of the day, I think, if I were desperate to rid myself of the Sands, and save my kingdom...I would choose power over grace any day.

Prince7777
09-07-2005, 02:46 PM
The thing is that prince of perisa is a story of medieval era and at this time the concept of good and evil was there. Maybe for you there is no such a thing as good or evil, thats your view of things... Every good story out there is about good and evil, and it's not just a thing to show life as black or white.

And maybe the fact that the word good has no real meaning these days is what is going wrong with our society.

ericthestampede
09-07-2005, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Originally posted by ericthestampede:
well we all think differently.


Hey uh, what's the point of pointing out the obvious? Yeah, it's no **** that not everyone in the world thinks the same, are you trying to say my opinion is inferior? Or is this for self content because otherwise you feel your opinion is getting monopolized by my own.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hey man whats your problem do you like have a grudge against like everybody because you do it alot so back off before i sick one of the mods on you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

sick 'em boy!!!!!(just kidding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif)

PrinceOfRussia
09-07-2005, 03:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ericthestampede:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Originally posted by ericthestampede:
well we all think differently.


Hey uh, what's the point of pointing out the obvious? Yeah, it's no **** that not everyone in the world thinks the same, are you trying to say my opinion is inferior? Or is this for self content because otherwise you feel your opinion is getting monopolized by my own.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hey man whats your problem do you like have a grudge against like everybody because you do it alot so back off before i sick one of the mods on you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

sick 'em boy!!!!!(just kidding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have a grudge against no one, if you knew me you'd know it is impossible for me to keep grudges, unless your the one who made my cat get cancer, cuz that rlly pissed me off, otherwise...

Oh back on the Grace bull, you could say WW prince had some grace too, when he had two swords and did all those dumb moves that toke like 5 minutes to complete, and they were usually accompanied with the slowdown, making it even longer. A reason why I always used one sword, and because I love throwing enemys off of the platforms =D

bitebug2003
09-07-2005, 03:56 PM
Desist with the bickering.


Thanks

nycdre62090
09-07-2005, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Prince7777:
But I know that a lot of people like the fights in warrior within and this is why I say the normal prince should be graceful, and the dark prince more violent like in Warrior Within. This would make a good contrast between the normal and corrupted prince, and also please to both fans of SOT and WW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the normal prince should keep his fighting style. It's not like that style of fighting came from his darker side anyway. It was a fighting style that the prince developed from what was most likely his own will. And the darker prince already has a completely seperate fighting style than that of the normal prince. It said so in the official site.

Azael1983
09-07-2005, 06:42 PM
Wow, this is still going, I must say, bob0848 made much more convincing arguments than myself, as did you Prince7777, but I stand by what I said, an epic hero does not have to be graceful to be epic, though I see your point that he should have morals. I never said that the Prince didn't, I merely stated that his fighting style didn't determine if he did or not. For example, if I may bring LOTR back into this, if Aragorn were to be more brutal, to decapitate his enemies or mutilate their bodies (not that he ever would http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif), would he not be respected? He would still be essential in the battles against the East, and in medieval times, some warriors were respected MAINLY for their brutality in battle, their ferocity. I believe that the Prince is an epic hero despite whatever fighting style he chooses, as long as his morals and motives remain the same, as they always have.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now if we look at a simpler case: I wan't to have some money to buy myself a new game. Now the corupted side says don't buy it, download it, but my good side says that I should work, earn money and then buy the game becaused people have worked for this. In this situation, the graceful way of having the game is to work and earn money. And the disgraceful way is to download it. We see that even if my two sides are trying to get to the same goal, I won't get any respect if I download the game. I won't be an epic hero. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good example, someone's methods do often determine the way people view them, either as a hero or not, but as I said before, views on these things were different in medieval times.

Prince7777
09-08-2005, 11:45 AM
Has anyone seen the flash animation on the Warrior within site? There's lot more grace than what we see in the game!

Here is the link (http://www.princeofpersiagame.com/us/ww/home.php)