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View Full Version : Das Boot - An idea about why U-96 could go so deep



goatman455
02-15-2007, 06:02 PM
I am curious, did U-96 go as deep as she did, ("280 METERS!!!") because the water pressure was less due to their being a strait there, and thus a less amount of water pushing them, or are the forces of nature completely indifferent to this, and was the sub just well built? Anyone who has taking engineering courses, or physics please let me know.

klcarroll
02-15-2007, 06:21 PM
Well, ....I spent the first half of my life working as a mechanical engineer; ....so I guess I'll make a comment or two.

Rest assured, the pressure at 280 meters is the same (to within milligrams per square cm) everywhere in the world.

If the U-96 survived a dive to that depth, it was because it was well engineered, and almost more importantly, well constructed: .......Surviving a dive that exceeded the "rated depth" by that much meant that NO ONE involved in the building of that boat cut any corners. Every hull plate was cut and formed perfectly, every weld was done right, and every rivet was formed correctly!

That's hard to do in a wartime, mass-production environment!

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Kaleun1961
02-15-2007, 06:28 PM
True, but these were German engineered. On a side note, were there any slave labourers on parts that went into U-boats? These unwilling workers tried, if they felt they could get away with it, sabotage or fudge their work. I somehow don't think the U-boat yards allowed forced labour on the absolutely vital parts of the U-boat which were necessary to the integrity of the pressure hull. Anybody know otherwise?

Foehammer-1
02-15-2007, 08:19 PM
And besides, we all know that German-made things are usually well-made indeed. I am sure that this meticulousness (although not ALWAYS useful, the von Papen name comes to mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) served German soldiers well. Remember, U-boats were considered to be able to safely dive to 60 meters, or something like that. Beyond that was a gamble. So the well-made boats were good at their stuffhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheRealPotoroo
02-15-2007, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Foehammer-1:
And besides, we all know that German-made things are usually well-made indeed.
Heheh.

The early Japanese stuff was meticulously built too. When the remains of the two mini-subs that attacked Sydney Harbour were recovered (now on display at the Australian War Memorial museum in Canberra), their quality of materials and manufacture showed they were no mere cheap, one-way tickets to Hell as many had assumed.

Celeon999
02-16-2007, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
True, but these were German engineered. On a side note, were there any slave labourers on parts that went into U-boats? These unwilling workers tried, if they felt they could get away with it, sabotage or fudge their work. I somehow don't think the U-boat yards allowed forced labour on the absolutely vital parts of the U-boat which were necessary to the integrity of the pressure hull. Anybody know otherwise?


No slave labour in the production as far as i know.

The greatest threat of possible sabotage were posed by french dock workers who were "usally" being overwatched and their work was "usally" checked.

I have a newsreel about u-boat production up on youtube.

At a u-boat shipyard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5CFCbIz6U)

klcarroll
02-16-2007, 06:59 AM
Great clip! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The shots of the welding teams were particularly interesting.

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Celeon999
02-16-2007, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by klcarroll:
Great clip! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The shots of the welding teams were particularly interesting.

*


Im not sure but i believe they already x-rayed the weldseams back in the 40ths

danurve
02-16-2007, 07:21 AM
Never saw that newsreel before, thanx for sharing that link http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

klcarroll
02-16-2007, 07:25 AM
Im not sure but i believe they already x-rayed the weldseams back in the 40ths

I think you're right.

....The scene I really liked was the one where the worker was using "truing wedges" to bring the hull section into exact alignment before the welding was done.

In many other shipyards, the solution would have been to "lay down a bigger bead"!

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demigod151
02-16-2007, 11:23 AM
There was a case of one U-Boat which descended down to 270m which was just short of U-96's 280. Also the U-Boat materials and pressure hulls were made from Krupp Steel which was possibly one of the finest steel companies of the 20th Century!

banzai_billy
02-16-2007, 12:45 PM
i think you guys are seriously overthinking this
ever stop and say to yourself "its a movie?"

why does luke skywalker get a kickass lightsaber, and can move stones with his mind?
same answer my friend.

klcarroll
02-16-2007, 12:57 PM
i think you guys are seriously overthinking this
ever stop and say to yourself "its a movie?"

Well Billy, I have to say, with all due respect, that you're "spin" on this is inaccurate.

The original question was an Engineering Question, and even though it was inspired by an event in a movie, you must keep in mind that the event depicted in the movie was inspired by real events.

There are numerous historical cases where U-Boats were compelled to go far past their "test depths"; ..........which makes the questions asked here, and the subsequent discussion entirely valid.

So, ...........your comparison to "Luke Skywalker" isn't really appropriate; ....since that was popular Sci-Fi fantasy, and we're discussing Naval History here.

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Minoos
02-16-2007, 12:59 PM
Movie? Type XXI reached 400m during many test patrols...textbook figure was 280m !

Celeon999
02-16-2007, 02:23 PM
Not everything in the movie was historical authentic but the thing with Gibraltar is a fact.


U-96 was damaged by an airplane from the carrier "Ark Royal" and fell down to 280 meters (Exact depth is unknown , propably 280 to 290 meters) where it hit the seafloor.


Doenitz original commentary to the after action report :

"Klar und gut durchgeführte Unternehmung. Besonders hervorgehoben wird das
ruhige Verhalten und Arbeiten der Besatzung nach den schweren Fliegerbomben
am 30. November."
gez. Dönitz

Translation :

"Clear and good performed operation.
Especially the calm behaviour and work of the crew after the heavy bombings from 30. November gets highlighted."

signed Dönitz

On another patrol, U-96 was pushed down to 235 meters during a several hours long depthcharge chase. It was so heavily damaged that it had to abort the patrol.

Doenitz commentary :

"Zur Durchführung der Unternehmung ist nichts zu bemerken. Die zähe Entschlossenheit, mit der Kommandant und Besatzung das Boot während der Verfolgung auf Tiefe gehalten haben, verdient hervorgehoben zu werden."
gez. Dönitz

Translation

"There is nothing to comment on the conduct of this operation.

The hardy determination of Commander and crew which kept the boat at its depth during the chase deserves to be highlighted."

signed Dönitz

klcarroll
02-16-2007, 02:45 PM
From an engineering standpoint, one still has to say; "They built them "right" in Germany"!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

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Kaleun1961
02-16-2007, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Celeon999:
Not everything in the movie was historical authentic but the thing with Gibraltar is a fact.


U-96 was damaged by an airplane from the carrier "Ark Royal" and fell down to 280 meters (Exact depth is unknown , propably 280 to 290 meters) where it hit the seafloor.


Doenitz original commentary to the after action report :

"Klar und gut durchgeführte Unternehmung. Besonders hervorgehoben wird das
ruhige Verhalten und Arbeiten der Besatzung nach den schweren Fliegerbomben
am 30. November."
gez. Dönitz

Translation :

"Clear and good performed operation.
Especially the calm behaviour and work of the crew after the heavy bombings from 30. November gets highlighted."

signed Dönitz

On another patrol, U-96 was pushed down to 235 meters during a several hours long depthcharge chase. It was so heavily damaged that it had to abort the patrol.

Doenitz commentary :

"Zur Durchführung der Unternehmung ist nichts zu bemerken. Die zähe Entschlossenheit, mit der Kommandant und Besatzung das Boot während der Verfolgung auf Tiefe gehalten haben, verdient hervorgehoben zu werden."
gez. Dönitz

Translation

"There is nothing to comment on the conduct of this operation.

The hardy determination of Commander and crew which kept the boat at its depth during the chase deserves to be highlighted."

signed Dönitz

I'm a busy man; I don't have all day to fill out lengthy reports. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Celeon999
02-17-2007, 05:26 AM
Yes, he has always been a man of few words. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Dont let us forget the Bismarck.

She was hit by over 700 shells and several torpedoes.

Then she fell a few thousand meters and crashed into the side of an volcano (pretty hard stuff) and slided along its side for another 1000 meters......and its hull is still in one piece http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Ok except the weak aft part that was ripped of by the water during its fall. But that was because this part of the ship was welded onto rest during the final construction phase. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4619/cap0907us.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3042/cap0920xk.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9602/cap1217ml.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5585/cap1234ai.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6481/cap1312nk.jpg

demigod151
02-17-2007, 08:08 AM
Well if you think that is impressive, lest us not over look the Tirpitz and what that endured and still remained afloat. She was as tough as a GWX Tramp Steamer.

blastomatic1759
02-17-2007, 08:39 AM
i have alot of books on Uboats , and i remember reading in one of them , which one i cant remember , but they dove down to 600 feet , also that DVD Hitlers last Uboat ( about the Uboat with the Me 262 in crates , and Uranium that was sent to japan) one of the crewmen mentioned going to a depth around 600 hiding from destroyers. if i was home i would have to re-read all those books to figure out which one mentioned it.