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Tofflan_n2
03-05-2005, 11:47 AM
Hi!


Now that spies only have 2 speed modes, i'd like more animations and possibilities for the slowest one. Instead of walking, it should be called stealth.
Say that one spy is on a small box and wants to get down from it. Normally he'd simply jump off it followed by a quiet landing, which can be picked up by the merc's motion tracking. But, if another animaion was added - which automatically is applied if the spy walks over the edge with stealth speed choosen - that makes the spy climb down it instead, making less noise and won't be picked up on motion tracking.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Three boxes are in front of you - and imagin standing right next to them wanting to climb up - (Standing very close), one low which you can simply jump onto, making the spy do a certain jump onto animaion (Which should be changed to a more stealth when stealth speed is choosen), the other one is a bit higher, and can be halfway climbed, the last one is the highest and needs to be grabbed by it's edge first, followed by climbing up (This one should also be changed, if it's low enough for the spy to simply reach the ledge without jumping - in stealth speed mode). Well, here follows a list of the boxes from the lowest to the highest explaining how the spy would climb down them in stealth speed mode:

<LI>Getting down this box would result in a step down by the spy, holding the edge with his right arm to counter the weigth on his feet to his arm.

<LI>Getting off this box would be slower, the spy turns around crouching and grabing the ledge with both hands and slowly puts his feet down, and let's go off the ledge and turns around.

<LI>Same as the second box, but with a little more pressure on the feet, making more noise (Not as much as a regular quiet landing) followed by turning around.[/list]

Also, when walking with this stealth speed and standing up, the spy would'nt make noise on the sound detection. Options: Either make it a choise whether or not one want's this stealth speed in the option, or add another speed which is in-between the actual - or both. The stealth speed would have another indicator then.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Additional changes:

<LI>Presence detectors should'nt notify spies when they've been detected by them since it reveals all strategic placements one may have thought of. Also, when a merc has placed it, he could see waves of whithin which range it detects when he has emf on. It seems like it detects as a grenade explotion each time it's searching (Making noise) which is'nt through walls.

<LI>Drop attack auto-aim removed, which makes it based on skill, more less. Also it'd require some height - about 1 meter - and make more damage the higher the jump. And if made from too low a height the merc would be able to resist it, though he'd appear to be pressed down a bit, but not falling. And, if you jump and press shift while in the air, the spy would "Get ready" for drop attacking, if one does'nt ready one's spy before jumping, he'd only make half damage, and not doing it as well as when one pressed shift. Also, if the spy won't land exacly above the merc and not pressing shift, the spy would'nt attack - however - if one presses shift, even though one did'nt hit directly on the head, the spy would make half damage. Rolling-dropping would'nt neutralize the merc. ALSO, if one hit's the merc directly on the head, the spy would kick as in pandora tomorrow.

<LI>Merc's berserk attack should'nt hit spies being above.[/list]

Tofflan_n2
03-05-2005, 11:47 AM
Hi!


Now that spies only have 2 speed modes, i'd like more animations and possibilities for the slowest one. Instead of walking, it should be called stealth.
Say that one spy is on a small box and wants to get down from it. Normally he'd simply jump off it followed by a quiet landing, which can be picked up by the merc's motion tracking. But, if another animaion was added - which automatically is applied if the spy walks over the edge with stealth speed choosen - that makes the spy climb down it instead, making less noise and won't be picked up on motion tracking.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Three boxes are in front of you - and imagin standing right next to them wanting to climb up - (Standing very close), one low which you can simply jump onto, making the spy do a certain jump onto animaion (Which should be changed to a more stealth when stealth speed is choosen), the other one is a bit higher, and can be halfway climbed, the last one is the highest and needs to be grabbed by it's edge first, followed by climbing up (This one should also be changed, if it's low enough for the spy to simply reach the ledge without jumping - in stealth speed mode). Well, here follows a list of the boxes from the lowest to the highest explaining how the spy would climb down them in stealth speed mode:

<LI>Getting down this box would result in a step down by the spy, holding the edge with his right arm to counter the weigth on his feet to his arm.

<LI>Getting off this box would be slower, the spy turns around crouching and grabing the ledge with both hands and slowly puts his feet down, and let's go off the ledge and turns around.

<LI>Same as the second box, but with a little more pressure on the feet, making more noise (Not as much as a regular quiet landing) followed by turning around.[/list]

Also, when walking with this stealth speed and standing up, the spy would'nt make noise on the sound detection. Options: Either make it a choise whether or not one want's this stealth speed in the option, or add another speed which is in-between the actual - or both. The stealth speed would have another indicator then.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Additional changes:

<LI>Presence detectors should'nt notify spies when they've been detected by them since it reveals all strategic placements one may have thought of. Also, when a merc has placed it, he could see waves of whithin which range it detects when he has emf on. It seems like it detects as a grenade explotion each time it's searching (Making noise) which is'nt through walls.

<LI>Drop attack auto-aim removed, which makes it based on skill, more less. Also it'd require some height - about 1 meter - and make more damage the higher the jump. And if made from too low a height the merc would be able to resist it, though he'd appear to be pressed down a bit, but not falling. And, if you jump and press shift while in the air, the spy would "Get ready" for drop attacking, if one does'nt ready one's spy before jumping, he'd only make half damage, and not doing it as well as when one pressed shift. Also, if the spy won't land exacly above the merc and not pressing shift, the spy would'nt attack - however - if one presses shift, even though one did'nt hit directly on the head, the spy would make half damage. Rolling-dropping would'nt neutralize the merc. ALSO, if one hit's the merc directly on the head, the spy would kick as in pandora tomorrow.

<LI>Merc's berserk attack should'nt hit spies being above.[/list]

Tofflan_n2
03-05-2005, 11:53 AM
And i don't want the spy to move one speed faster when strafing.

Spekkio9
03-05-2005, 11:54 AM
Stealth mode might be a good idea.

Disagree with the PD. You can't remove it when it goes off anyway. Besides, you can barely see them and with the newest patch, you can't really hear them either. It would be way too annoying if suddenly a merc just comes and kills you. "What happened?" you ask, since you had thermal on and know you didn't trip a spy trap. "PD". That just wouldn't be good.

-There is no auto-aim for the jump attack, and no need to add a merc able to "resist it" cuz he can berserk. The system you mention is very complex and an unnecessary "fix" since I don't feel drop attacks are broken. The only "fixing" drop attacks need is that it's kind of forgiving from the front but not so much from behind. I suppose this was by design since if you miss from behind you can grab.

-Disagree completely. Jump a merc by being stealthy. If he knows your there and can berserk, you deserve to die.

Tofflan_n2
03-05-2005, 12:08 PM
There are auto aim for drop attacks, have'nt you noticed? I'm totally sure there's auto aim, make no mistake about that.
It's the same as in pandora tomorrow.

In the first version only the host had auto-aim, so they fixed it for the secound or third.

Spekkio9
03-05-2005, 12:21 PM
I'm positive there is no auto aim, and you have to be a lot more precise with your jumps in CT than in PT.

psyichic
03-05-2005, 12:38 PM
Tere is no auto aim. Now you may be thinking of perhaps the thing that happens when you feel that the drop didnt land on him but it did this is just becasue of the perspective when looking top down it almost seems to me im hovering 2 meters above the merc during the animation and it looks completely diffrent when viewd from the ground.

TacoLaMmY
03-05-2005, 12:53 PM
There is in fact auto aim. If you begin your descent on a merc who's traveling perpendicular to your current line of motion for example, the spy will shift to match the merc's movements all on his own without any added user input.

Spekkio9
03-05-2005, 01:09 PM
I really doubt it, since It's never worked for me. Even if there was an auto-aim, it's not a bad thing. Mercs have auto aim with their bullcharge.

Iryxian2
03-05-2005, 01:14 PM
There's no auto aim on drop attacks for me that's for sure.

TacoLaMmY
03-05-2005, 02:11 PM
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Amn-23
03-05-2005, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TacoLaMmY:
Absence of proof is not proof of absence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol but neither is the proof of absence of absence of proof is not proof of the absence of proof.


p.s. sorry if you brains hurt now. mine does

SirGimpAlittle
03-05-2005, 07:17 PM
auto aim on drop only kicks in when already falling through the air. If the merc keeps moving, the spy does too. Try it with a buddy some time. Did it in PT and CT beta. Good place would be warehouse in PT from the bridge down to the floor. and another would be out in the garden of clubhouse. Happens on a very regular basis for me.

It just wont kick in when you have no way in hell of landing on the merc anyway. So not like you go action hero style and fly to him through the air across the garden.

SITHDUKE
03-06-2005, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spekkio9:
I'm positive there is no auto aim, and you have to be a lot more precise with your jumps in CT than in PT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Spekkio but there is. Do you really think i could be on the Cradle in main hall and pin-point land on a merc who's on the lower lobby floor? I don't think i could and if i did it was utter fluke. I'm pretty sure my spy was auto-aimed. That was Early beta though. Never had it done since the first patch.

Iryxian2
03-06-2005, 04:45 PM
Well then why is it I miss 70% of the time when I try to jump on a merc on the 2nd Floor Clubhouse Hallway?

Ninja720
03-06-2005, 11:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SITHDUKE:
Sorry Spekkio but there is. Do you really think i could be on the Cradle in main hall and pin-point land on a merc who's on the lower lobby floor? I don't think i could and if i did it was utter fluke. I'm pretty sure my spy was auto-aimed. That was Early beta though. Never had it done since the first patch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon duke, you know you have the timing to do so...its ninja instinct. Whether or not there is auto aim of the jump, you still had to time it somewhere.

Spekkio9
03-06-2005, 11:54 PM
Well, the bottom line is this: IF there is an auto-aim for the jump, it's not drastic, and certainly nothing to complain about.

Sceptre6666
03-07-2005, 12:05 AM
No. I must complain. About every **** little detail. Oh look devs! This man is missing an eyelash! You should fix it no? Oh you say it fell out? Well then... He seems a little fat... Who ever heard of a fat spy. Im trying to hide, then BAM, lard *** over there gets shot. Bottom line = Skinny partners.... The reflection off my sunglasses is too drastic. Every fool knows that the equation for light is L= 15Vi 1/2 r x * T. I cant PLAY this way people.... I think the mercs need to be less dangerous.Maybe we shouldnt give them guns! They should be nice and fuzzy, and have hugs for all... yeah... Fuzzy... Like rabbits! And then, the spies will be like the chipmunk friends the mercs have, and they will scurry around all day, in search of the missing nuts.

Spekkio9
03-07-2005, 12:48 AM
All I got to say to that sceptre is....

http://www.applepics.com/7/userfiles/422bfd1b1eb7e.gif

IllumiC.A.T.
03-07-2005, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sceptre6666:
No. I must complain. About every **** little detail. Oh look devs! This man is missing an eyelash! You should fix it no? Oh you say it fell out? Well then... He seems a little fat... Who ever heard of a fat spy. Im trying to hide, then BAM, lard *** over there gets shot. Bottom line = Skinny partners.... The reflection off my sunglasses is too drastic. Every fool knows that the equation for light is L= 15Vi 1/2 r x * T. I cant PLAY this way people.... I think the mercs need to be less dangerous.Maybe we shouldnt give them guns! They should be nice and fuzzy, and have hugs for all... yeah... Fuzzy... Like rabbits! And then, the spies will be like the chipmunk friends the mercs have, and they will scurry around all day, in search of the missing nuts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


LMAO!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
that my friend is the funniest post!! and i know funny

Tofflan_n2
03-08-2005, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spekkio9:
Stealth mode might be a good idea.

Disagree with the PD. You can't remove it when it goes off anyway. Besides, you can barely see them and with the newest patch, you can't really hear them either. It would be way too annoying if suddenly a merc just comes and kills you. "What happened?" you ask, since you had thermal on and know you didn't trip a spy trap. "PD". That just wouldn't be good.

-There is no auto-aim for the jump attack, and no need to add a merc able to "resist it" cuz he can berserk. The system you mention is very complex and an unnecessary "fix" since I don't feel drop attacks are broken. The only "fixing" drop attacks need is that it's kind of forgiving from the front but not so much from behind. I suppose this was by design since if you miss from behind you can grab.

-Disagree completely. Jump a merc by being stealthy. If he knows your there and can berserk, you deserve to die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spekkio, you're a smart guy... But what is this. Yeah, stealth is the key, but... I don't like your reson about the berserk. The game should have more realism, and the berserk makes it too arcade and easy to master. You could always charge away, which would be easy without the auto aim. What makes the pt's indestructable? It's just wierd.

Presence Detectors will soon be classified useless, since there's spytraps. And i know that passing P.T.'s is very easy with minor training. I heared them easily, and never removed them. Beep.. Move... Beep... Move = simple timing. "What happened?" - Everyone knows there's pt's in the game. And the same question will most likely be asked about spytraps.

There needs to be more detailed info about some of the equipment, though. Like for H.B.S. & P.T.

Spekkio9
03-08-2005, 02:29 PM
Ever heard the phrase "if it ain't broke don't fix it?" Well, the PD's and the jumping system ain't broke. PD's won't ever be classified useless. If you wait around to remove the thing after you get notified, you'll most likely die because the merc will get there. Your alternative to the current jumping system is something very complex and confusing, like we need more complexity in this game, not to mention that there's nothingould NEVER be running from the spies -- EVER! If they spot a spy and the spy is stupid enough to telegraph his attempt to jump a merc, then yes the bullcharge or berserk is a valid counter. No nuances, no changes, just berserk &gt; jump. The only people who complain about that counter are those who just lack any sort of sneakiness.

Tofflan_n2
03-08-2005, 02:41 PM
I'm relatively good at being stealth... And i still complain.

Iryxian2
03-08-2005, 05:14 PM
Then stealth better.

scope2005
03-08-2005, 08:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spekkio9:
Stealth mode might be a good idea.

Disagree with the PD. You can't remove it when it goes off anyway. Besides, you can barely see them and with the newest patch, you can't really hear them either. It would be way too annoying if suddenly a merc just comes and kills you. "What happened?" you ask, since you had thermal on and know you didn't trip a spy trap. "PD". That just wouldn't be good.

-There is no auto-aim for the jump attack, and no need to add a merc able to "resist it" cuz he can berserk. The system you mention is very complex and an unnecessary "fix" since I don't feel drop attacks are broken. The only "fixing" drop attacks need is that it's kind of forgiving from the front but not so much from behind. I suppose this was by design since if you miss from behind you can grab.

-Disagree completely. Jump a merc by being stealthy. If he knows your there and can berserk, you deserve to die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally agree with ya on this one spekkio..

tofflan.. there is no auto aim for jumping, there has been plenty of times ive jumped a merc and landed just 2CM too far away. Maybe the auto-aim would have helped me of it was there.

In SCPT man you can jump a merc and land a mile away and take him down.. that isnt an autoaim but the hitbox for jumping is very LARGE, in scct this is fine, a spys life is hard as is.

also berzerk really should stay in if a spy tries to jump you, its for the sake of balance. if you are trying to jump on a merc who can see you and knows what you are doing, you deserve to bezerked.. it takes much skill to time it right also, You should be rewarded for stealth so there would be no problem if you jump an unsuspecting merc.


I DO agree with tofflan on the faster walk when strafing, its been an annoying since SCPT. even if they dont make an anim for it they could at least slow the anim down and drop the speed down to normal crouch walk speed.

peace

scopeh

DucusSumus
03-08-2005, 10:19 PM
There was a slight "auto-aim" for jumping in PT. If you made a high jump down toward a merc the spy would be steered in the direction of the merc. I never witnessed it in CT, however.

On the other hand, the beserk move is completely fine. It doesn't make the game too "arcadish," it makes the mercs realistically stronger. A merc should be able to **** up a spy that's jumping toward him in plain sight; you could in real life pretty easily. The jump attack is intended to be a surprise attack from above, and if you succeed in surprising the merc I guaruntee that he will not be able to beserk in time.

In CT, you must rely on stealth and teamwork as spies. Spies are not offensive weapons, as they were in PT.

SITHDUKE
03-09-2005, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ninja720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SITHDUKE:
Sorry Spekkio but there is. Do you really think i could be on the Cradle in main hall and pin-point land on a merc who's on the lower lobby floor? I don't think i could and if i did it was utter fluke. I'm pretty sure my spy was auto-aimed. That was Early beta though. Never had it done since the first patch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon duke, you know you have the timing to do so...its ninja instinct. Whether or not there is auto aim of the jump, you still had to time it somewhere. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea i did time it nicely =D Needless to say the merc woke up with a headache from me landing on him from like a mile up &gt;http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif !!