Life in prison or death penalty? [Archive]

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 11:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i see it as this way......if you killed someone and you die you will go to hell. Now wouldnt it be better to pray every day try to be forgiven for your sin. See your family every once in a while and make a few friends in jail? Not everyone is a hard *** there, u can still make a few friends. You cant do that in hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd only go to hell if you believed in Christianity.

I picked death, because I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in a prison with a half-bear cellmate, and in fear of dropping the soap http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Stealth_chill

03-08-2007, 11:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i see it as this way......if you killed someone and you die you will go to hell. Now wouldnt it be better to pray every day try to be forgiven for your sin. See your family every once in a while and make a few friends in jail? Not everyone is a hard *** there, u can still make a few friends. You cant do that in hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd only go to hell if you believed in Christianity.

I picked death, because I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in a prison with a half-bear cellmate, and in fear of dropping the soap http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually im catholic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 11:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i see it as this way......if you killed someone and you die you will go to hell. Now wouldnt it be better to pray every day try to be forgiven for your sin. See your family every once in a while and make a few friends in jail? Not everyone is a hard *** there, u can still make a few friends. You cant do that in hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd only go to hell if you believed in Christianity.

I picked death, because I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in a prison with a half-bear cellmate, and in fear of dropping the soap http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually im catholic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is christianity...

Stealth_chill

03-08-2007, 11:13 AM

what are you then golden?

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 11:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
what are you then golden? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am a Manzarekian. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

*Waits for people to get a The Doors reference*

silentassasin05

03-08-2007, 11:22 AM

I dont know the answer to the original question, but the way i see it, whats the difference between liffe without parole and death. May aswell get it over with and give the cell to someone with a lesser crime, especially with already overcrowded prisons.

LoneInTheDark

03-08-2007, 11:53 AM

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 12:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LoneInTheDark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
what are you then golden? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am a Manzarekian. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

*Waits for people to get a The Doors reference* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Golden I totally get it. This morning in my History of Rock-n-Roll class the topics were The Doors, Janis Joplin, and Jimi Hendrix! Ray Manzarek was keys, right? If I am not mistaken he just recently has a new book on the shelf. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, Manzarek on keys. Not sure about the book, though.

LoneInTheDark

03-08-2007, 12:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LoneInTheDark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
what are you then golden? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am a Manzarekian. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

*Waits for people to get a The Doors reference* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Golden I totally get it. This morning in my History of Rock-n-Roll class the topics were The Doors, Janis Joplin, and Jimi Hendrix! Ray Manzarek was keys, right? If I am not mistaken he just recently has a new book on the shelf. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, Manzarek on keys. Not sure about the book, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the name of it is "Snake Moon". I saw 2 publishing dates, Mar 2007 and Apr 2006.

Yuugure

03-08-2007, 01:13 PM

Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty, but only in it's current form. If it is supposedly painless and quick, why the hell is it a penalty for people that are tired of life? It isn't. And some people don't have much in the way of living, so honestly being in a nice, warm prison with meals each day would be a step up the ladder. I think that the death penalty and prison should be harder to accieve, but far nastier places than they already are. The death penalty should go back to the Medieval methods, or other nasty methods, such as the bamboo torture, etc.

I do know that it is not painless, but it still is far too quick for my likings. It is not nearly as much of a deterrant as it should be. All that being said, I would take imprisonment, because even with a life imprisonment, it is possible to make parole. Hell, even Charles Manson has the potential for parole.

cooldude6681

03-08-2007, 01:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
I picked death, because I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in a prison with a half-bear cellmate, and in fear of dropping the soap http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif For me the choices are to die in prison, or to die by lethal injection. I pick lethal injection.

Tatersalad810

03-08-2007, 01:42 PM

I don't like these hypothetical questions. Especially about pain and suffering of me. I would pick life sentence and pray to God my cellmate isn't 500lbs. I almost never answer these because I know I am never going to prison.

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 03:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yuugure:
Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty, but only in it's current form. If it is supposedly painless and quick, why the hell is it a penalty for people that are tired of life? It isn't. And some people don't have much in the way of living, so honestly being in a nice, warm prison with meals each day would be a step up the ladder. I think that the death penalty and prison should be harder to accieve, but far nastier places than they already are. The death penalty should go back to the Medieval methods, or other nasty methods, such as the bamboo torture, etc.

I do know that it is not painless, but it still is far too quick for my likings. It is not nearly as much of a deterrant as it should be. All that being said, I would take imprisonment, because even with a life imprisonment, it is possible to make parole. Hell, even Charles Manson has the potential for parole. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Death by lethal injection is largely painless when done correctly. When done incorrectly is is supposed to be quite agonizing. A recent survey (I think by Florida) examining records indicated that far too many were done incorrectly, and that rather than the sedative being administered first the paralytic was. So the condemned lay there awake and paralyzed as their body shut down.

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 03:20 PM

Keeping people in prison for life is a waste of resources, such as food, water, shelter etc.

Just kill them, and get rid of one person in an overcrowded world. If a person did something so bad that the only two choices were to execute them or kill them, then what's the point of keeping him or her alive?

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 03:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
If a person did something so bad that the only two choices were to execute them or kill them, then what's the point of keeping him or her alive? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last time I checked both those choices amounted to the same thing - one just uses formal language that carries a certain legal weight.

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 03:29 PM

tmgbhot

03-08-2007, 03:37 PM

I'm not gonna vote because I wouldn't ever be in the position where I would have to choose http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

FARLEYFAN

03-08-2007, 04:13 PM

If you had a choice and you chose to die you would go to hell. Soo I would rather spend my life in prison, mmkay

http://drawn--together.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mr.mackey.jpg

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 04:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
If you had a choice and you chose to die you would go to hell. Soo I would rather spend my life in prison, mmkay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where you would eventually die and go to hell in any event if that is your belief. So either way you end up in the same place, in one case you happen to spend the remainder of your life locked away.

FARLEYFAN

03-08-2007, 04:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MDS_Geist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
If you had a choice and you chose to die you would go to hell. Soo I would rather spend my life in prison, mmkay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where you would eventually die and go to hell in any event if that is your belief. So either way you end up in the same place, in one case you happen to spend the remainder of your life locked away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no no, you got it all wrong. If you pray for forgiveness and you mean it, God is forgiving. He wipes your sins away if you mean you are sorry for them. For example, do you think Dog the Bounty Hunter will go to hell? I doubt it, he murdered someone, then prayed for forgiveness for years. Does this guaruntee that he will go to heaven? No, he has a better chance however. I would personally rather have a chance than kill someone and go straight to hell with minimal chance of forgiveness.

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 04:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
No no no, you got it all wrong. If you pray for forgiveness and you mean it, God is forgiving. He wipes your sins away if you mean you are sorry for them. For example, do you think Dog the Bounty Hunter will go to hell? I doubt it, he murdered someone, then prayed for forgiveness for years. Does this guaruntee that he will go to heaven? No, he has a better chance however. I would personally rather have a chance than kill someone and go straight to hell with minimal chance of forgiveness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it is a question of belief and repentance. Do you believe that repentance has to be sincere and motivated by belief in God rather than fear of punishment? You do say you have to mean it, but do you also have to make atonement?

In my faith, there are two broad categories of laws. Those that govern conduct between God and humanity and those that govern conduct between people. If you violate one of the latter, then you must sincerely seek forgiveness from the person you wronged.

In my experience doing prison chaplaincy, most prisoners are quite far away from any kind of sincere repentance.

FARLEYFAN

03-08-2007, 04:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MDS_Geist:

Then it is a question of belief and repentance. Do you believe that repentance has to be sincere and motivated by belief in God rather than fear of punishment? You do say you have to mean it, but do you also have to make atonement?

In my faith, there are two broad categories of laws. Those that govern conduct between God and humanity and those that govern conduct between people. If you violate one of the latter, then you must sincerely seek forgiveness from the person you wronged.

In my experience doing prison chaplaincy, most prisoners are quite far away from any kind of sincere repentance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, how would you seek forgiveness from the person you wronged if they are dead? And you should be sorry of what you committed regardless of how scared you are of your punishment or even going to hell. And if you are, and you ask for forgiveness, then God will gladly forgive you for your crime. And the reason no one in the prison you are talking about are far away from a desire of forgiveness is most likely because they have no regrets on what they did or they are not religious. Maybe they are just plain crazy.

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 04:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
Okay, how would you seek forgiveness from the person you wronged if they are dead? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was something of the point. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Bear in mind that the Bible makes the penalty for murder rather clear.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And you should be sorry of what you committed regardless of how scared you are of your punishment or even going to hell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Should" is a nice idea, but doesn't necessarily work. Considering that a person committed a crime in the first place, often with malice aforethought should indicate to you that their moral values may not be what you want them to be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And if you are, and you ask for forgiveness, then God will gladly forgive you for your crime.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps. Perhaps there are also things that are unforgivable. Being forgiven by God does not free you from ultimate sanction by the state. Personally, I don't speak for God.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And the reason no one in the prison you are talking about are far away from a desire of forgiveness is most likely because they have no regrets on what they did or they are not religious. Maybe they are just plain crazy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plenty of them are religious, some new converts in prison. That doesn't make them better people by any stretch of the imagination. Being "religious" does not suddenly ennoble a person, consider that most of the world's terrorists are deeply religious men. In my experience most criminals made the choices they made willingly, and the only thing that they would change if given the opportunity is to not get caught.

FARLEYFAN

03-08-2007, 05:08 PM

Other than terrorism, can you think of any other religion where it is okay to kill people? You know what I meant... And the topic is no chance of parole, I'm not talking about physical imprisonment, I am talking after death spiritually. He can free you of that, he can grant you spiritual freedom of imprisonment based on your decisions and if you're sorry for them or not.

CovertKi11

03-08-2007, 06:08 PM

Death. Put me 6 feet under.

tmgbhot

03-08-2007, 06:09 PM

they don't bury you 6 ft under just like 4 ft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

GoldenHawk442

03-08-2007, 06:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MDS_Geist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
If you had a choice and you chose to die you would go to hell. Soo I would rather spend my life in prison, mmkay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where you would eventually die and go to hell in any event if that is your belief. So either way you end up in the same place, in one case you happen to spend the remainder of your life locked away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no no, you got it all wrong. If you pray for forgiveness and you mean it, God is forgiving. He wipes your sins away if you mean you are sorry for them. For example, do you think Dog the Bounty Hunter will go to hell? I doubt it, he murdered someone, then prayed for forgiveness for years. Does this guaruntee that he will go to heaven? No, he has a better chance however. I would personally rather have a chance than kill someone and go straight to hell with minimal chance of forgiveness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah IF there is a god, heaven or hell. Which I personally doubt.

Honeycomb_Ck

03-08-2007, 06:18 PM

thejackel21

03-08-2007, 06:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tmgbhot:
they don't bury you 6 ft under just like 4 ft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you really want to go into detail it is actually 5.456 under. not 6 or 4. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

i would rather take death, prison isnt worth it.

tmgbhot

03-08-2007, 06:23 PM

in december when we were burying my mom my sister asked the guy and he said 4 ft I dunno maybe he didn't knwo

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 06:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
Other than terrorism, can you think of any other religion where it is okay to kill people? You know what I meant... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Terrorism" isn't a religion. I can think of examples in Islam and Christianity where people of faith - religious people, not only think that it is okay to kill people but that it is desired by God. In Judaism there are such cases as well, but all are specifically self-defense. So again, being "religious" in no way means that a person isn't violent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And the topic is no chance of parole, I'm not talking about physical imprisonment, I am talking after death spiritually. He can free you of that, he can grant you spiritual freedom of imprisonment based on your decisions and if you're sorry for them or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Imprisoned is imprisoned. The choices are life in prison or a slightly sooner death (bearing in mind that in the US prisoners on death row tend to be there for a while). You seem to be making the assumption that murderers will somehow become better people in prison. Have you ever been in a prison? They're generally not places where people actually improve themselves or are redeemed. Prison generally doesn't rehabilitate anyone, and generally doesn't make a murderer into a better person. They're just regretful that they were caught.

thejackel21

03-08-2007, 06:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MDS_Geist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And the topic is no chance of parole, I'm not talking about physical imprisonment, I am talking after death spiritually. He can free you of that, he can grant you spiritual freedom of imprisonment based on your decisions and if you're sorry for them or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Imprisoned is imprisoned. The choices are life in prison or a slightly sooner death (bearing in mind that in the US prisoners on death row tend to be there for a while). You seem to be making the assumption that murderers will somehow become better people in prison. Have you ever been in a prison? They're generally not places where people actually improve themselves or are redeemed. Prison generally doesn't rehabilitate anyone, and generally doesn't make a murderer into a better person. They're just regretful that they were caught. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is true is it unlikely prisoners will be rehabilitate, but at least it is still better than sending them on a island as some people still want to do in some cases.

I believe the average rate of death row prisoners dying from the needle is now 10 years.

MDS_Geist

03-08-2007, 07:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheJackel21:
That is true is it unlikely prisoners will be rehabilitate, but at least it is still better than sending them on a island as some people still want to do in some cases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasn't that a bad movie with Ray Liotta? Actually, that was the premise of "Escape From New York" also. Frankly, I think that the US prison system needs a serious overhaul. But the reality is that people tend to be in prison for a reason, and usually not a very nice one. I wish I had an alternative that actually did rehabilitate people, but I don't nor do I know of one.

In some cases it is pretty similar to throwing them onto the island. Most prisons are understaffed and many have very serious gang activity.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheJackel21:
I believe the average rate of death row prisoners dying from the needle is now 10 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds about right, although I think it tends to be longer.

insanity76

03-09-2007, 07:38 AM

ROLNIK

03-09-2007, 01:58 PM

die in prison after 40 yrs of being there or die by lethal injection? I would choose instant death.

It wouldn't be nice to get ****ed by some guys there before u die. Or spend most of your life praying that u won't go th hell. I am choosing death.

p.s.

I don't believe in god so I don't care if I should go to hell or not.

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 05:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by insanity76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
No no no, you got it all wrong. If you pray for forgiveness and you mean it, God is forgiving. He wipes your sins away if you mean you are sorry for them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed this point was brought up earlier too, but you'd have plenty of time to pray for forgiveness while on death row. It's not like you get sentenced to death and then injected right there in the courtroom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The poster said quickly killed on death row, but yeah you are right. I wouldn't want to die though.
Why is everyone always wanting to bring out the positives in dying in this thread?

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 05:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MDS_Geist:

"Terrorism" isn't a religion. I can think of examples in Islam and Christianity where people of faith - religious people, not only think that it is okay to kill people but that it is desired by God. In Judaism there are such cases as well, but all are specifically self-defense. So again, being "religious" in no way means that a person isn't violent.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They think it is okay to kill people, but God sure as hell doesn't. And I mean murder, not killing to save someone, you know.

Sorry for dubba post...

tmgbhot

03-09-2007, 05:23 PM

who's to say what god thinks maybe he wants everyone to murder everyone? ever think of that? hmm?

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 05:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tmgbhot:
who's to say what god thinks maybe he wants everyone to murder everyone? ever think of that? hmm? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya I did, because it says not to in the Bible. Ever take a look at that?

tmgbhot

03-09-2007, 05:33 PM

when was the bible written?

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 05:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tmgbhot:
when was the bible written? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what, it doesn't matter, it could have been written yesterday, but it is the word of God.

tmgbhot

03-09-2007, 05:50 PM

if it was written yesterday I'd believe it

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 05:59 PM

So why don't you believe it if it was written at another time? And that is why God doesn't do anything now to prove anything to us, he is testing to see if we believe in him or not. Many many many years ago God did things to show himself, like talk to humans even.

GoldenHawk442

03-09-2007, 08:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
So why don't you believe it if it was written at another time? And that is why God doesn't do anything now to prove anything to us, he is testing to see if we believe in him or not. Many many many years ago God did things to show himself, like talk to humans even. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure he did. If God talked to humans, someone would've recorded it.

No matter how you spin it, Christianity is blindly following a deity who may or may not exist.

Tatersalad810

03-09-2007, 10:12 PM

Seeing how we cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, he has a 50% chance of existing...

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 10:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
So why don't you believe it if it was written at another time? And that is why God doesn't do anything now to prove anything to us, he is testing to see if we believe in him or not. Many many many years ago God did things to show himself, like talk to humans even. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure he did. If God talked to humans, someone would've recorded it.

No matter how you spin it, Christianity is blindly following a deity who may or may not exist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They did. But you know what, no one believed them because they were too stuck up to accept the fact that there is someone better than them and more important in this universe.

GoldenHawk442

03-09-2007, 11:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
So why don't you believe it if it was written at another time? And that is why God doesn't do anything now to prove anything to us, he is testing to see if we believe in him or not. Many many many years ago God did things to show himself, like talk to humans even. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure he did. If God talked to humans, someone would've recorded it.

No matter how you spin it, Christianity is blindly following a deity who may or may not exist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They did. But you know what, no one believed them because they were too stuck up to accept the fact that there is someone better than them and more important in this universe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that's true, then why does anyone take the bible seriously? It's was written by the Apostles of the supposed 'son' of an 'all-knowing deity'.

According to you, everyone is either a Christian, "lost" or a heretic. Grow up, Farleyfan. Two thirds of the world's population isn't Christian. Deal with it.

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 11:27 PM

You are telling me to grow up and you think the world revolves around you? And yes that is what you think because you refuse to believe in a superior being and a creator. And again yes you are lost because you can't make up your mind about if there is or isn't a God and then choose to argue with someone else's belief when you have no idea in the first place. How about you grow up instead?

GoldenHawk442

03-09-2007, 11:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
You are telling me to grow up and you think the world revolves around you? And yes that is what you think because you refuse to believe in a superior being and a creator. And again yes you are lost because you can't make up your mind about if there is or isn't a God and then choose to argue with someone else's belief when you have no idea in the first place. How about you grow up instead? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the world revolves around me. Just because I don't believe in a supreme creator and a superior being doesn't make me ignorant, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE!

I am not lost spiritually. I don't believe in a God, and that works fine for me. I don't need to grow up; I've graduated from high school and I am going to work full time in a few months.

You are being biased and annoying. Do me a favor and piss off.

MadamTampini

03-09-2007, 11:34 PM

This is getting ugly, kids. Discussions like this go down the drain really quickly because of comments, that in the heat of debate, can seem meaningless, but they can get a thread locked in the blink of an eye.

I think it would be mature for all of us to accept the fact that not everyone believes what you, or other people, believe. It's important for everyone to accept other people, because if you don't, then you will live the life of a hermit, or live in fear, hate, or sadness for the rest of your life, because of the fact that you don't trust anyone. Trust and acceptance are on different levels, but they correspond to eachother.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

GoldenHawk442

03-09-2007, 11:37 PM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Great post. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 11:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you believe in then? Nothing? How can you not believe in anything? If you don't believe in anything, then I think that makes you nothing. I am done talking to you. I don't care if you respond or not so don't bother.

MadamTampini

03-09-2007, 11:45 PM

Just because he doesn't believe in what you do, doesn't mean he is nothing. Maybe according to your beliefs he is nothing, but maybe according to his beliefs, he is not. Whether Goldenhawk labels his thoughts as "beliefs" or not, in essence, they are. Even I have "beliefs", but I don't necessarily call them that. I like to refer to them as morals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Ever think about it that way?

GoldenHawk442

03-09-2007, 11:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoldenHawk442:

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you believe in then? Nothing? How can you not believe in anything? If you don't believe in anything, then I think that makes you nothing. I am done talking to you. I don't care if you respond or not so don't bother. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, I do not have an organized religion. And that's fine by me, and my friends who are religious. There ARE other religions besides Christianity, you know. Islam, the "mortal enemies of Christianity" and Judaism, whose followers your ancestors (not necessarily 'yours', but past Christians) massacred by the boatload. Buddhists, who believe in the teachings of an Indian prince Siddartha (Buddha) and Hinduism, which believes in multiple gods.

For the record, what I DO belive in is this: The Evolutionary Theory and The Big Bang. I honestly can't see some alpha being just appearing from nowhere and creating the universe. Where does he appear from if there is no universe to begin with?

Not having a religion (agnostic, athiesm, however you spin it) is becoming quite popular. These people simply aren't interested in any sort of religion.

Closing words: Grow up, FF, and accept other people's beliefs and choices.

FARLEYFAN

03-09-2007, 11:55 PM

Okay, so how did the big bang happen, as you said " OUT OF NOWHERE " or how did we start evolving for no reason " OUT OF NOWHERE ". You see the thing is, if those did happen, it is because God made it happen.

Not having a religion (agnostic, athiesm, however you spin it) is becoming quite popular. These people simply aren't interested in any sort of religion

So I guess hell will be a little crowded in the next couple of decades...

MadamTampini

03-09-2007, 11:57 PM

If you believe in hell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GoldenHawk442

03-10-2007, 12:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
Okay, so how did the big bang happen, as you said " OUT OF NOWHERE " or how did we start evolving for no reason " OUT OF NOWHERE ". You see the thing is, if those did happen, it is because God made it happen.

Not having a religion (agnostic, athiesm, however you spin it) is becoming quite popular. These people simply aren't interested in any sort of religion

So I guess hell will be a little crowded in the next couple of decades... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Big Bang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang)

Evolutionary Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_theory)

Wikipedia gives a much better explanation than I could. Also see Tolerance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance)

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 12:03 AM

Oh, so you won't have yourself explain it. You give me some wikipedia sh1t about events written by some random person who could be totally lying. Or even have no idea what they are talking about, like how you tend to do that.

tmgbhot

03-10-2007, 12:14 AM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif come on guys your gonna get this thread closed

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 12:21 AM

All I did at the beginning was say " I Would ask for forgiveness from God " and all the atheists jump on my back and are like " who says there is a god " and all that bull$hit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Stealth_chill

03-10-2007, 12:28 AM

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 12:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tmgbhot:
when was the bible written? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what, it doesn't matter, it could have been written yesterday, but it is the word of God. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
that is where ur wrong .tha bible was written by regular ppl not by God . the bible has been through mny hands and changed many times so u nvr no wuts true or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ya, true, but it is generally the word of God and of his followers.

ras29

03-10-2007, 02:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i see it as this way......if you killed someone and you die you will go to hell. Now wouldnt it be better to pray every day try to be forgiven for your sin. See your family every once in a while and make a few friends in jail? Not everyone is a hard *** there, u can still make a few friends. You cant do that in hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Except in reply to your next post... I am Anglican.

In any case, I would pick prison. God gave me the gift of life and I would plan to keep it for as long as possible. It's like if tmgbhot gave me 50 Halo 3s for my B-day and I chucked them out.

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 09:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ras29:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i see it as this way......if you killed someone and you die you will go to hell. Now wouldnt it be better to pray every day try to be forgiven for your sin. See your family every once in a while and make a few friends in jail? Not everyone is a hard *** there, u can still make a few friends. You cant do that in hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Except in reply to your next post... I am Anglican.

In any case, I would pick prison. God gave me the gift of life and I would plan to keep it for as long as possible. It's like if tmgbhot gave me 50 Halo 3s for my B-day and I chucked them out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya, but if Halo 3 is like Halo 2 then I wouuldn't even want one...

GoldenHawk442

03-10-2007, 09:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
Oh, so you won't have yourself explain it. You give me some wikipedia sh1t about events written by some random person who could be totally lying. Or even have no idea what they are talking about, like how you tend to do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, because everyone ALWAYS lies about stuff like this. Check the sources at the end of the article. They're written by educated people. I said wikipedia can do a better JOB than me, not that I couldn't explain it. It was also close to midnight when I posted that. I need to sleep so I can get up and have a life. Do you have one, FarleyFan? Or do you just preach to everyone so they hate your guts?

The Big Bang is the theory that at one point all matter was focused on one tiny point, but that point was incredibly dense and contained immense heat. It exploded, spreading out and creating all the forces, material, elements... etc. Like electromagnetism, gravity, the weak nucelar force, the strong nucelar force, helium, hydrodgen, lithium.... most of the elements you see on the Periodic Table of Elements (except for about two dozen which have been created in Labrotories). These elements would then create stars, galaxies, planets, etc. This is the condensed version of events. See how I'm not immediatley saying that it's true and that's it? Your mind is closed to things like this. Sure, the world could've been created by a supreme being, but I choose to not think so. It doesn't effect my life. If there is a God, it won't change my life in any noticeable way.

The Evolutionary Theory is that we evolved from less-complex animals, primarily monkeys and apes. Bones and fossils have been found going back hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of years that have similarity to humans, and the shorter the time scale, the more similar these primates are to modern humans. Oh, one question: If we didn't evolve, and just came to the Earth like we are today, where are THOSE fossil records? Non-existant? Hell, how would I know, I'm a "lost soul".

Have you ever heard of ERV's? (Endogenous Retro Viruses) I'll make an assumption and assume you know the M.O of a virus. Anyway, if the infected cell is a sperm or egg cell, which creates a child (that's right, babies are born from sex, not God), then the ERV's are present in the offspring. That means if two people have a common ERV, then they are on some level related.

Here's the inetresting bit. Human and Chimp Genomes have been compared over the least decade, and they've found no less than twelve common ERV's between us, found in the SAME locations on the Genome Map. When these sequences are checked for time of introduction, they both get a common ancestor from 5-7 million years ago.

Your move, pal.

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 10:18 AM

Okay, so back to what you said before, how did that happen " OUT OF NOWHERE " why did it just happen to explode without a reason, and how did all the matter just " GET " there? Out of nowhere, like you said how God was there out of nowhere.
And the thing is; we may have evolved, or the big bang might have happened, most likely that these happened actually. But the reason these did happen and not out of nowhere, is God made these things happen.

Your turn, bro.

GoldenHawk442

03-10-2007, 10:26 AM

The Big Bang is a controversial subject, and humansobviously weren't there to witness it, so I am not sure. Scientists probably know, but I don't have a trained scientist in my immediate vicinity. Actually, I should correct myself on one point: the Big Bang didn't fill in empty space, it created the space, as well as everything else.

If God (if he exists) allowed evolution, what was the point of him (or her) creating anything? Wouldn't it just be easier to create everything first, and not have anything evolve? Creationism and Evolutionism are incompatible; it's either one or the other.

I notice you didn't even touch on the subject of ERV's. Why?

You're up to bat, FF.

Surlyduff50

03-10-2007, 10:37 AM

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b118/Surlyduff/AcceptChrist.gif Nuff' said ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

FARLEYFAN

03-10-2007, 10:46 AM

And the reason he didn't create everyone is because he is testing us. He wants to see who is faithful to him, if he created everyone then everyone would know. He is seeing who is worth granting them everlasting life with him in his kingdom, and who is worth banning to hell. And the reason I didn't touch ERV's is because I don't need to. ERV's are most likely correct and are related to the way we evolved, but the reason we evolved, if we did, is indeed God.

I don't even need to argue with you I am done.

GoldenHawk442

03-10-2007, 10:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
And the reason he didn't create everyone is because he is testing us. He wants to see who is faithful to him, if he created everyone then everyone would know. He is seeing who is worth granting them everlasting life with him in his kingdom, and who is worth banning to hell. And the reason I didn't touch ERV's is because I don't need to. ERV's are most likely correct and are related to the way we evolved, but the reason we evolved, if we did, is indeed God.

I don't even need to argue with you I am done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

God (if he exists) must be dissapointed in his number of followers, then. Looks like %70 of the world is going to hell, because they don't believe in Christ. You keep saying that we evolved BECAUSE of God (if he exists), while evolution is actually the theory of the ABSCENCE of a god. ERV's are usually ignored by Creationists, so I'm suprised and glad you acknowledged them.

I am done here.

Honeycomb_Ck

03-10-2007, 11:37 AM

Evolution and the belief in God are not incompatible. However, evolution is incompatible with anywhere near a literal interpretation of the Bible.

Tatersalad810

03-10-2007, 01:33 PM

Honeycomb is right. Lets think about this, according to creationism, God made the world in 7 "days". Many people assume that by "7 days." the bible means "1 week or 168 hours". How the hell are we supposed to know how long a day is for God? A day for God could be a billion years! Ever thought of it that way? According to Evolution humans are fairly new and plants and such are incredibly old. God made plants days before he made humans.

You guys are both getting out of hand. Farleyfan I think you need to understand that most people will not accept Christianity and you telling them they're going to Hell won't make them believe you any sooner. Goldenhawk, you need to NOT tell people to piss off. This is why I hate religion, it's a touchy subject.

I believe in the theory of evolution and I believe in the big bang theory. Now I also understand that they are just theories NOT facts or laws. And before anything else is said. Christianity is entirely based on one theory: the theory of a higher diety. But I think that religion is a very good thing and a very horrible thing. Many atheists and agnostics hate religion and say it's just clouding the minds of the public. But lets think here, religion brought us the basic priciples and laws. Christians do not want to go to hell, so they do their best to not sin and commit unjust acts or for lack of better term, crimes. If everyone thought they would get into heaven or a place of nirvana then they wouldn't give a **** about killing someone else. Religion has helped stabilize the upholding of law in this society. So I am thankful for religion but I do not always beleive in the **** that many Catholics try to feed me.

Honeycomb_Ck

03-10-2007, 01:45 PM

Tater,

Human law existed long before Christianity.

Tatersalad810

03-10-2007, 02:37 PM

Partly why I said religion in general. I used Christianity as an example.

ROLNIK

03-11-2007, 08:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Surlyduff50:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b118/Surlyduff/AcceptChrist.gif Nuff' said ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - good one!

MDS_Geist

03-11-2007, 11:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
They think it is okay to kill people, but God sure as hell doesn't. And I mean murder, not killing to save someone, you know.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you claim you know what God wants because you have read the Bible or more likely you have read parts of it in translation, then you should already be aware of the fact that God certainly demands people's deaths. Murder is forbidden, killing is not. A Christian fanatic who murders a doctor is certainly a murderer just as much as an Islamist nationalist who detonates himself in a pizzeria.

You then say that God wrote the Bible. As a Christian, you should be more aware of your own history. The Christian parts of the Bible were without question written by mortal men over a large period of time.

Your argument about God testing to see who is faithful is a standard fallback and has been for centuries. Your back half is rather problematic, since if God is so merciful then no one should be banned to hell.

Surlyduff50

03-11-2007, 11:49 AM

I know! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasiek.rolnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Surlyduff50:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b118/Surlyduff/AcceptChrist.gif Nuff' said ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - good one! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tmgbhot

03-11-2007, 11:52 AM

who wants a Playstation 2 anyway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Surlyduff50

03-11-2007, 11:53 AM

You do, once you accept Jesus christ. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tmgbhot:
who wants a Playstation 2 anyway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tmgbhot

03-11-2007, 11:54 AM

a playstation 2 isn't worth it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

MDS_Geist

03-11-2007, 12:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Honeycomb_Ck:
Evolution and the belief in God are not incompatible. However, evolution is incompatible with anywhere near a literal interpretation of the Bible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Bible itself is incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Bible. It is not an internally consistent work and has been very heavily edited - somewhat sloppily in some cases.

Honeycomb_Ck

03-11-2007, 01:18 PM

This is true. However, I was more speaking about the belief most devout Christians hold that God created the world and its inhabitants as-is. Specifically, that humans were put here by God when he made the world and therefore humans could not possibly have evolved from another species.

Even though I'm not religious, I often wonder that if God(s) did create the Universe, wouldn't he have the foresight to give living beings the ability to adapt to a dynamic environment to increase their survivability, especially considering how he made the Earth's environment change dramatically with time? If the answer is "yes," then evolution and divine creation go hand-in-hand. I'm very surprised that few people ever consider this; most everyone views evolution and divine creation in direct conflict with each other.

Back on topic,

Our death penalty system is broken, no doubt about it. Moral issues aside, we really should abolish it until we can get the system right. If I were actually guilty of the crime that I was convicted of, I would pick death over living in a prison cell for 60 years. However, in some states the difference is negligible, since it takes on average about a dozen years between conviction and execution.

MDS_Geist

03-11-2007, 01:53 PM

Which is fine, then ask them to reconcile Genesis One and Genesis Two based on a strict literal reading. Even with the lousy translation that they're likely to be using, it's not easy to do with honesty or consistency. You seem to be presenting an argument similar to "Intelligent Design."

What do you see a broken in the current system?

halo_99

03-11-2007, 03:30 PM

For me it all depends on the crime.

Honeycomb_Ck

03-11-2007, 07:23 PM

There are a lot of things wrong with the system:

1. It takes too long to execute those who are guilty.
2. It takes more money to execute someone when all is said and done than it does to lock them up for life with no parole.
3. It's inequitable in terms of class. Simply put, those who cannot afford private attorneys are executed at a much higher rate (%/convictions) than those who can.
4. It's inequitable in terms of race. Black on white murders result in executions at a much higher rate (this is %/convictions, btw, so the fact that one race commits more murders than another doesn't apply here) than any other racial combination.
5. We execute children.
6. We execute the mentally ******ed.

The real kicker is that it's really not worth having this arcane system given the fact that we get it wrong at times. While it's not anywhere near the majority of the time, it happens often enough where we need to take a step back and re-evaluate the way things work.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Which is fine, then ask them to reconcile Genesis One and Genesis Two based on a strict literal reading. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the bible to call the person out when they make up something that isn't in there to support their argument.

Yuugure

03-12-2007, 05:42 PM

It should not take much money, though, to execute. Seriously, if they wanted to they could just give them a shot of liquid plumbr. End of story, no one could survive what it would do to their brain.

MDS_Geist

03-12-2007, 07:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yuugure:
It should not take much money, though, to execute. Seriously, if they wanted to they could just give them a shot of liquid plumbr. End of story, no one could survive what it would do to their brain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a bit inhumane. There are myraid ways to end a person's life. Part of the idea of the death penalty is to kill a person as painlessly as possible. The actual killing isn't so expensive. The legal fees and such are.

ROLNIK

03-12-2007, 08:17 PM

In my opinion:

1. There should be no Death penalty.
2. Someone guilty should be executed if he wants to, cuz if he wants to die he wil kill himself anyway, that would be just an easier way.
3. If I had to be executed I'd want a bullet thru my head

Globe.48

03-14-2007, 07:11 AM

One thing I've been thinking:

Why do some christians think that having a punishment for evil deeds is the only guarantee for upholding peace? Compare these 2 scenarios:

A tiny child is playing around on a railway and a train is coming. You have plenty of time to run and carry the child out of harms way. What would you do?

I'll rescue the child because if I do, my god will surely recognize me and my good deed, and I have an easier access to heaven. If I don't, my god will punish me, and I'll probably go to hell. I don't want to go to hell.

Now the atheist:
I'll rescue the child because my conscience tells me to, it's because I understand the basic moral principles.

My conclusion: You don't need a "reward or punishment" system in order to be civil. Just do good deeds for the sake of being a good person.

Patmarki

03-14-2007, 07:31 AM

Well, if you think that's what Christians believe, you're wrong.

Shady74

03-14-2007, 08:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Patmarki:
Well, if you think that's what Christians believe, you're wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im not a good citizen just to be cool with God. I just do it because its right. Getting a better chance in heaven is just an added bonus http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Globe.48

03-14-2007, 08:18 AM

Notice how I said some christians. And I mean the ones who support the "reward or punishment" ideal as an argument.

Anyway, why would god have a system like this? Does god think humans aren't good enough to have morals without it? I thought the feeling of doing the right thing is reward enough.

Shady74

03-14-2007, 08:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Globe.48:
Notice how I said some christians. And I mean the ones who support the "reward or punishment" ideal as an argument.

Anyway, why would god have a system like this? Does god think humans aren't good enough to have morals without it? I thought the feeling of doing the right thing is reward enough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

helping a lady across the street isnt going to get u in to heaven. u need to follow the 10 commandments. (2 i dont follow...i dont go to church http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif...and ive stolen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif. im going to have to go to confession for that) thats your stairway..to heeeavan! when she gets there she knows, if the stores are all clo.....sry i couldnt help it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

MDS_Geist

03-14-2007, 04:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shady74:
helping a lady across the street isnt going to get u in to heaven. u need to follow the 10 commandments. (2 i dont follow...i dont go to church http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif...and ive stolen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif. im going to have to go to confession for that) thats your stairway..to heeeavan! when she gets there she knows, if the stores are all clo.....sry i couldnt help it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that's a problem for you.

First, "going to church" is not one of the Ten Commandments (either version). There is no similar command found in the whole Torah.

Second, if you're a Christian then the Ten Commandments should be theologically null for you since they are part of the law that was supposed to be fulfilled in Jesus. That's the reason why Christians can eat shellfish and swine, and why it is so absurd when Christians cite Levitical prohibitions (most specifically the one about male homosexual sex) to justify their own bigotry.

Following the Ten Commandments is a good start, but not nearly enough. There are 613 commandments in the Hebrew Bible, not just ten. But as a Christian these should be superseded by the Christian Bible.

Globe - I don't know of any religious people who engage in such calculus regularly. They'll do it because they think it is the right thing to do (assuming they think that) and rationalize it afterwards.