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View Full Version : GRAW 2 running slower than GRAW even with upgrade.



Six_Gun
12-07-2007, 02:07 PM
I just bought GRAW 2 shortly after upgrading my system. Originally I had a P4 3.0GHz, X800XT, 1GB RAM rig. I swapped out the X800XT for a X1950Pro 512MB and doubled the RAM to 2 GB. Though I am still on AGP platform it made quite a difference in most games including allowing me to bump shaders, shadows, and water up one notch in Crysis which now makes the game look alive and real.

As far as I can tell I really only have two options other than reinstalling without the patch. I can turn post processing completely off via the command mentioned on TweakGuides, which makes the nightvision malfunction, and I can turn the shadow map resolution down.

Depsite many early reviews indicating GRAW 2 runs smoother than GRAW 1, it's like a slide show in parts of the game. I often see the Fraps counter dip below 10 FPS when approaching areas of active tanks before I or my squad even engage in battle. I am using FSAutostart to shut down all background progs and non essential services and it forces idle tasks (like Sys Restore) and defrags the RAM before game launch.

Since many were claiming it runs smoother than GRAW 1 I am wondering if it has something to do with having updated it to the latest patch version. Unfortunately the patch itself will not remove via it's own executable like some so I am stuck finishing the game in this poor running condition or reinstalling after laboring through a few missions. I only play sp anymore and most of the patch is mp fixes anyway.

I have my system drivers updated and despite Koroush making a blanket statement on his TweakGuide for this game, insulting those of us whom are having lag problems with the old "Your system isn't optrimized" bit, it DOES play Crysis just fine as mentioned, which is a much more graphically sophisticated game. The auto detect puts me at max settings except for no VSync at 1024x768, so I know my spec isn't the problem.

I am quickly losing my respect for Grin, this game appears to be overhyped quite a bit in many ways. I have tried lowering the settings substantially including using Med textures, Low shadows, dynamic lights Off, post processing Low, etc. It makes the game look terrible and only minimally reduces the lag but it's still very bad where there are active tanks.

ColinCJ
12-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Try lowering the renders aheads its here at the top of the forum some where.

Also check sound poor Graphics is not always GPU related.

Six_Gun
12-07-2007, 11:15 PM
I'm aware of that tweak Colin but it does not fix low FPS, only mouse lag, which is not the case for me. If it were merely mouse lag only aiming, shooting and selecting would be slow.

Here are the exact details on it as per Tweakguides:

"By reducing the maximum number of frames to render in advance, you reduce this bottlenecking effect and hence significantly reduce or remove the mouse lag. However, here's the important part: this is not a tweak for improving FPS as such. The general recommendation to set 'Max Frames to Render Ahead' (or 'Flip Queue') from its default of 3 down to 0 will actually reduce performance on many systems, particularly Dual Core or HyperThreading CPUs."

I have a HyperThreading CPU and I only get mouse lag when the frames dip very low, so this tweak will likely do me no good. In fact this guide indicates it will possibly make things worse, not better.

ColinCJ
12-08-2007, 10:10 AM
Hi have a look at the OS tweak guide.

Have a look at mem usage and cpu usage during game.
It looks like a bottleneck.
What is Your CPU. and mem speed and type.

Disable sound via my computer in the hardware section, dont uninstall just disable and test.

You dont mention sound card?
The game does not crash, just runs slow sometimes, this is a mem problem.

The game can run well on systems such as yours, but we have seen problems with setups and driver conflicts, not sure how PC savvy you are.

If I was haveing the same issue I would uninstall and completley clean system from top to bottom, remove Main drivers, and reinstall every thing.
Do a good reg clean, defrag etc.
Then install.
Chipset,agp,sound, only from the official vendors web, not off the cd.

See how it goes, it depends really how much you want to play, there is a thread at the top re what to do before buying and installing might help.


Cheers

Want2Snipe
12-09-2007, 11:30 AM
there were 1 or 2 drivers that were giving us problems with HDR IIRC, also, some games need to have Vertical Sync ON, this is true for me on most cases because I have a 22" widescreen LCD screen... it may or may not work for you but worth a try.

Six_Gun
12-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Sorry guys, forgot I made this post, I got sidetracked playing other titles I bought recently, but who can blame me considering how this game plays. To answer the questions, RAM is DDR PC3200 @ 400MHz but low latency @ 2-2-3-5 timings. CPU as mentioned is P4 3GHz, core and type are Northwood HyperThreading, so it runs as fast as a Prescott 3GHz but cooler. Sound card is M-Audio Revo 5.1 and I have no sound issues with this or other games using it nor does lowering or eliminating HW acceleration solve anything on games with poor optimization.

OS tweak guide Colin, did you even READ my post? If I had my OS set up poorly would I be able to run games like Crysis including modding with it's editor just fine? Responses like that are the typical excuses and dodging Grin and Ubi are famous for, didn't expect it from you. I'm not a moron, though I often wonder if the ones that made the game's engine are.

I wanted to try the VSync idea W2S, as I've heard some games do run smoother with it, but I see no place in the game menu to enable it. In fact GRAW and GRAW 2 both are terrible for flexibility in the way of tweaks in general, especially console commands. I am baffled as to why Koroush at Tweakguides.com even bothered making a guide for it for that reason alone. There seems to be no console whatsoever for these titles.

None the less I have used the two tweaks Koroush mentions in his guide that I listed above and have as well dropped environment detail to 50%, all of which do little if anything for the lag I get with active tanks present. I suspect much of the problem is either with memory leaks and/or texture LOD biasing that is too agressive for anything but high spec systems. In some games (like MoH: Airborne) you can access texture LOD bias parameters via a user ini but this game has no such thing.

Don't mean to pick but it's not my ineptness with PCs Colin but Grin's inability to make an optimized game that's at fault here. If you look at what Saber Interactive is doing with their very graphically beautiful and extremely efficient Saber 3D engine, anyone can see Grin is behind what others are doing in this respect. Even Crysis runs far smoother and looks better on my mediocre spec. I can run Crysis at High textures, Medium shaders, shadows, water and sound, rest Low, with 8x AF at 1200x900 averaging 35 FPS. That's at least 5 FPS higher than I average in GRAW2 with better looking graphics never dipping below 20 FPS. In GRAW2 it dips to 10 or even less at times.

Not all is bad, the game does have some intersting and engaging gameplay and some cool map features. however there's not enough pluses there to make up for the minuses mentioned and in some places the game's techical structure and objectives are a bit ridiculous. Why is it for instance even while you aren't currently engaged in an objective that was just issued you can try to quicksave and the HUD will say quicksaving not allowed, then on the second attempt to do so immediately after the warning disappears it allows you to? Why is it as well that there is so much text in the upper middle part of the screen devoted to quicksaving status and it lingers constantly very faintly?

For that matter, why is it that we have to not only initially install AEGIA's PhysX but keep it's fairly sizable driver on our HDs even though many of us don't have their PhysX cards? At first I thought it was just a precautionary measure to make sure those needing it installed it. After trying to uninstall it though I found the game wouldn't even launch. It's not hard to see it's an agreement with AEGIA to hype up their product to those whom haven't purchased it, and a poor one at that. It's just annoying for those of us that don't need it and has the reverse effect of advertising.

In the dam level the take out the helis objective is ridiculous. There are no fixed guns nearby and the LAW does not heat seek them worth a damn. An RPG hit is both very difficult to pull off and ineffective when you do, it makes their placement in the map a joke. All this and no ability to quicksave after the EMP is set in place. I found a way to easily achieve this objective but it wasn't satisfying at all.

Turns out if you endure a bit of loading lag reloading the EMP placement save, you can quickly exit the electrical room, shoot the oncoming troops, and hightail it way back to the generator room. Wandering through the tunnels back to the other end of it leaves the helis fixed together in one spot above it's far end beyond the ridge. You can then go back to the dam where they are visible from the high grating and easily take out both with one LAW shot. They're so far away by then they don't see you.

This is horrible gameplay planning, which is a shame because everything leading up to it was pretty good in that level. For one thing why script the helis to revert back to one particular fixed position when they lose sight of you? If anything they should be scripted to circle the spot they last saw you at, in this case where I entered the generator room.

My plan after seeing the ineffectiveness of the LAW and RPG was to lure them way back to the two fixed guns on the roadside near the powerplant. I even had a troop in place at each fixed gun. The spot the helis reverted to was beyond the rdige at too low an altitude for me to even get them to see me though. The AI wuld probably have gotten themselves killed anyway even had I highlighted each chopper with an attack order. What the heck, at least there I'd have excused it some as both helis are firing rockets.

There's also a lot of confusion as to what is a mission completion priority one scenario and a pack it up if so much as one guy gets shot scenario. I got so sick of the guy whom sounds to be the voice of Crowe in Far Cry telling me the mission was over due to one of the AI getting his idiot self killed. It makes me want to play every mission myself leaving them indoors out of harms way if I can. Of course this adds to the frustration when frames dip to 10 FPS as tanks come onto the scene because I feel like a one man army having to change back and forth from tac map to ground view just to avoid getting flanked.

I also see no way to use the full screen com for each of my troops when I finally DO move them for extraction. The combination of them being rather dumb and not being able to see if there are any enemies I may have missed in their path when I advance them is a bit annoying. The only consolation to all this is I waited until the game was in the bargain bin.

Six_Gun
12-17-2007, 05:20 PM
I'll have to assume from the lack of response by those whom initially posted here that you have no counter to my rebuttal?

In your case Colin I know it's not that you're away for the holidays because you did just post an Xmas thread. Somehow that doesn't make up for the dodging you've done here. You know dang well this game has problems, so please don't act like I'm to blame for it's sub par performance.

Looks like the only thing we get here is excuses, nonsense you're to blame lectures or the silent treatment.

ColinCJ
12-18-2007, 02:49 AM
Hi Six Gun.
No not on holiday just been away for a few days.

Any comments I put here are my normal ones for any one haveing issues.

We all know the games limitations and indeed I have posted about these here many times.

Some times in fact more than a few tweaks do help and in many cases solve user issues.

Im sorry if you feel this forum has not helped, perhapes tec spt might be better.

Good luck with getting the game to run well.

Six_Gun
12-18-2007, 02:58 AM
Well I can't see putting too much more time and trouble than I already have trying to fix what Grin didn't do, and that's make a smooth running engine. There's too many other games out right now to be playing that actually do run well to be worrying about this much.

Like I said I have a couple ideas what might be the problem, one of which could be tinkered with had they made the game with a user ini you could adjust texture LOD bias with, but they didn't even do that. Like I've said before, they should call themselves Grin And Bear It! LOL

ColinCJ
12-18-2007, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Six_Gun:
Well I can't see putting too much more time and trouble than I already have trying to fix what Grin didn't do, and that's make a smooth running engine. There's too many other games out right now to be playing that actually do run well to be worrying about this much.

Like I said I have a couple ideas what might be the problem, one of which could be tinkered with had they made the game with a user ini you could adjust texture LOD bias with, but they didn't even do that. Like I've said before, they should call themselves Grin And Bear It! LOL

Be sure to get back to us if you get it sorted.