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View Full Version : Feedback from the Demo - Good but Frustrating



avaereene
04-14-2006, 03:31 AM
Overall I thought it was great in terms of graphics, combat (both the chess like style and the details like how much damage a unit would do), the two factions, the world map. I thought there could have been a bit more depth with troop upgrades, rather than just one tier, i.e. from archer to crossbow man. I would have liked quicker loads into and out of the city.

However, there was one main problem I found which made the experience frustrating. I played on normal difficulty and I found it to cross the line from being challenging to being frustrating, both in the campaign and the custom game. Didn€t matter whether the enemy was human or demon, they always had more troops and the troops seemed tougher when they were on the side of the enemy. Of course I can only comment on my experience and I don€t know how developers measure difficulty settings, but I will say that I€m a long time gamer (always playing on the default difficulty setting), and if I compare it to pretty much any other game I€ve played, I found it to be frustrating.

I want to buy and play it, but I can€t do it if I€m just going to be frustrated and reloading all the time. The balance wasn€t there for me.

znork
04-14-2006, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by avaereene:

I want to buy and play it, but I can€t do it if I€m just going to be frustrated and reloading all the time. The balance wasn€t there for me.

So the game was to hard for you?

PyscoFalcon
04-14-2006, 03:51 AM
Too hard for me - just kept getting thrashed.

I was extremly upset when I went to change settings to easy that there was no easy.

unreal_az
04-14-2006, 03:55 AM
Indeed the game is diffent from heroes 3 and 4. Here you have to lose troops cause the maps are made that way. Perhaps the final release will include easyer maps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Swintar
04-14-2006, 03:58 AM
main problem I found which made the experience frustrating. I played on normal difficulty and I found it to cross the line from being challengi

I very much agree! Even on 'normal' this campaign stage is horribly hard! o.o

After having captured the town and loosing very few troops and after freeing the other hero the enemy sends one of their heros against you. I lost badly! xD I was slaughtered really :P. That was hard as heck xD.

Wicky3D
04-14-2006, 04:05 AM
The campaign is not hard, you are weaklings! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sfidanza
04-14-2006, 04:06 AM
I do not agree. On normal difficulty, I found the game reasonably challenging.
As for the troops being tougher when playing for the enemy, you know that the enemy hero boosts his troops. And Inferno heroes attacking in Haven campaign are level 17. If you use Godric, who starts at level 3, non wonder you find it hard to win!!! Isabel is level 17 when you free her, I'd suggest using her, if you didn't already...

avaereene
04-14-2006, 04:06 AM
In a word, yes. I had a similar experience to "HardWired," a few posts down. The AI army always seemed to have two or three times the troops I did (i.e.: "1K" to my "250" in the custom game), as well as quality troops like Devils which kick the $h!t out of my "quality" troops. I was able to recrut 3-30 troops depending on the type of troop of course, and yet the enemey troops were always much higher in number and quality, and then it's just a numbers game you can't win.

Like HardWired, after a few tries I won the first battle against the Demon Lord in the campaign, had a few troops left after said battle, and then a "couple of days later" there are two more Demon heros heading my way with troop counts of "lots" and "hordes" etc.

Couldn't win the battle with so few troops, and no cash to build up an army that quick. And even with heaps of cash, you need to buld up your castle, and there's only so many troops produced per week. Which I like, it just doesn't seem like the AI is playing by the same rules.

But whatever, it's just my experience.

arturchix
04-14-2006, 04:10 AM
Well, consider also that when you will play the whole campaign, in this map Isabel won't start at level 17 but over level 20, and that makes a lot of difference - all the experience, skills and spells come from the previous maps. In the demo it is harder.

phoenixzs
04-14-2006, 04:13 AM
Give it some time I think six months later you will find it much easier even a piece of cake.The danger is not the A.I. is too good the danger is A.I and difficulty could be too easy that would be bad.I havent played yet but I hope the computer is
"realy" hard at the hardest level,thats the way to play to challange the immposible.Any way give it time and please ubi dont decrease the hardness levelhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

TastelessRamen
04-14-2006, 04:14 AM
Heroes has always been really hard. Play III on the normal difficulty and the computer will still show up with three times as many forces as you unless you play exceptionally well.

It's just a fact of the series, and there are some human players who play even better. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

duke_val
04-14-2006, 04:15 AM
On normal difficulty I had no problems in both campaign and scenario. Those heroes you say are quite easily defeated, they are not that hard you just need to make up both your tactics and strategic play.
I like this, more challenging and definitely more fun. When it gets easy I easily get bored.
Maybe you guys have to think a bit more about your actions in the game.

devoviour
04-14-2006, 04:20 AM
hehe, you where worried that this AI is like heroes iv but now you have one hard AI to handle http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

avaereene
04-14-2006, 04:29 AM
Ya I used Isabel, I still got my a$$ handed to me. As a general concept, if it's "too hard," then there's no room for error, and then that's when you're reloading because you misplayed your griffin dive for example. And I will say that I'm new to Heroes, which maybe is why I'm having difficulty. But then how many other newbies and potential buyers/gamers are turned off because they find it too difficult? I'd suggest that a "normal" setting is for "general" players, and then veterans of Heroes and those who like more of a challenge can turn it up. And I'm not sure why there's no easy setting so it can go the other way where a newbie can lower the setting to learn the ropes or to have more low key game play experience.

ST_Ghost
04-14-2006, 04:35 AM
First wave caught me totally by surprise as i had isabel over at the blackmarket with half my army and godric (level 8 at that time) near town just coming back from buying the cavaliers.

I was totally outnumbered against Agrael but Managed to survive....with 44 crossbowmen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess its partially the dumb combat AI. Each time you cast bless, the enemy will cast curse next. So he usually didn't end up casting more than curse and once in a while attacked.

What I did was send griffins for a dive at his succubi to start with and have all troops cornered up at the north corner of the castle (i only had a citadel at that time too)

Take out his devils first and then his succubi. Next target his horned demons. If you do that, chances are you will win. Just keep your crossbowmen alive.

The next 4 attacks were easy. I think its partially because after defeating Agrael, I was still near his base with Isabel and raided all his mines and prevented his hero from exiting the town.

argifontes
04-14-2006, 04:43 AM
The demo is great I love the AI at this level it make it more interesting and is doable ofc I really cant wait for the full game this demo is a bit short... ie the heroes II demo included a normal map to play with all castles that was a great demo for me(and best heroes from the series also) after playing 1 motnh with that demo i decided to buy the game...but with this demo i think i will have finished with it in few days... But really ubi great work the game looks soo good except from those errrm...dendroids?? treants?? ents?? wtf is that i am not goin to enter in more details since there is a thread already for this creature but really man that thingy will fit better in a X- files episode than in a homm game...

avaereene
04-14-2006, 04:48 AM
ST_Ghost, I had tried much of what you suggest.

Took out the succubi with my griffins - check.
Took out the devil... well this is where I had trouble. The devil took out most of my troops single handedly including going after my crossbowmen (bastard just moved right next to them). That was on the field.

When I tried staying in the castle, the catapult was putting holes in my walls in one hit.

So ya, I too managed to survive with a few crossbowmen, and then a couple turns later there's a couple more armies coming way with "lots" and "hordes"....

Anyway, obviously I like the game otherwise I wouldn't be posting. Whether you consider me a newbie/rookie or a weakling or a low key gamer, whetever, I'd just like the option/choice of easier game play.

ST_Ghost
04-14-2006, 05:01 AM
On a siege map, the devils need 2-3 rounds to reach your archers. Especially if you placed your 1x1 troops (peasants, footmen) in a fashion in fron of them that a 2x2 creature cannot reach time.

Have bless cast on the archers and let them shoot the devils. If i remember correctly, at close range my crossbowmen (started out with 70 or so) could kill 4-5 devils on a hit.

As for the next few assaults...well as i said, i had raided the enemy mines so they weren't as strong and i had the grail right after attack2 by guessing its location.

It should be possible though if you have a few extra heroes who visit the waterwheel and the leprechaun for extra gold and the haven outposts for more troops. I hardly used Isabel at all on that map.

You don't need to upgrade your troops uch to win the map. You only need crossbowmen and enough 1x1 troops to seal them off as well as a sizable number of griffins and cavaliers (which you get from outposts)

Jolly-Joker
04-14-2006, 05:03 AM
1) The vertical upgrading is possible up to level 6 (Peasant to Archer to Footmen to Cleric to Cavalier.
2) Do you really expect the game to be a cakewalk? This is not working like H 3 or H 4, you have to adapt to the different battle style and you have to get used to suffering losses. The map you are playing is the last of the 1st campaign (where you have to free Isabel from Jail). Isabel makes a lot of a difference when fighting with her. And if the mission objectives tell you to defend Dunmoor from all attacks you can't go exploring with your best hero.
You have to think a bit about what you are doing.
By the way, the campaign gets a lot tougher later on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kartabon
04-14-2006, 05:15 AM
Well, the IA for me is very easy...

Nengkan
04-14-2006, 05:18 AM
After Agrael, i didn't have Inferno heroes coming in groups, just once at a time, needing some days more before the next came. So i could take some mines and such in the north while keeping Isabel in city defense amassing my army (all upgraded, only shortly reached Angels though). The outposts were a great help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Cavaliers, (Royal) Griffins and Clerics/Inquisitors were the key for me.

Contrary to ST_Ghost, i didn't raid any enemy mine or similar and until recently i have been all the time in defense (if we don't count some encounters in the wilderness, fighting for resources than minor Inferno armies tried to take from me). I'm kicking his butt now.

Easy difficult option should be there. I doubt very much that someone wants the game to be cakewalk, but there are different levels of skill (not everybody can be Sun Tzu).

Janne_p2005
04-14-2006, 05:37 AM
I have to comment one thing on the demo, the demo is for us Heroes veterans, new comers might get pretty frustrated on the difficulty, of course some of them have the patience to learn and try many times, but if I was new to series and couldn't even beat the first map in demo on the third time around, I would probably give up and not to buy the full game.. at least when I would realize there isn't an easier mode http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I myself have always enjoyed the Heroes serie, mainly because the awesome hotseat mode, but in the single player mode I always tend to suck big time, because I tend to play the game too slow, do much exploring, gathering resources , etc. and not optimizing so much on building the toughest army and town possible. I would love to play this way, but sadly I can't, cause there's and there has never been an easy mode to do so. I think it would not bother to have an very easy mode for those who play the game differently, if the normal mode stays this way fine, but why not give an option for a easier for those who are not so good, surely it would not harm anyone, just get more people interested.

Romanov77
04-14-2006, 06:37 AM
Sounds challenging...very good!!!

Campaigner_1st
04-14-2006, 06:50 AM
Look people, this map is the last of the first campaign so ofcourse its hard....I myself haven't beaten it yet and I have tried three times now! (On Heroic that is)

Play the custom map in normal difficulty instead. If you don't win there however....

Jolly Joker: *Imagines the last map of the Academy campaign* AARRGH!

Naskonni
04-14-2006, 07:16 AM
I'm really sorry but some of the people in the thread sound like spoiled brats that expect to best a game within a day. There is a very good reason for the series to have stayed with such a (sometimes even fanatical) following and to have been played for years - the depth. It takes several months to learn all the tricks and strategies and if one thinks the AI is cheating because it has bigger armies then wait till you meet your first experienced HoMM player online and then come back to tell the story of how he/she whooped your behind, or maybe you will scream how he/she cheated as well and so on.

It takes some thought and consideration as to what you do each turn and why you do so and not something else instead. Think ahead and don't waste turns for nothing.

When in defense against stronger opposition ALWAYS guard your archer units with whatever tank critters you have at your disposal - it is not important for the guards to deal a lot of damage - they have to be able to absorb a lot of it. NEVER move those guards away even if it is tempting to do so if you see that next turn the enemy will manage to get by them! Cast slow on powerful enemy units to give your archer units more time to deplete their numbers before they come to you and cast spells that maximize damage on archer units. A very old trick is use use low number of disposable creatures to attack a powerful stack as to "deplete" their one counter attack before attacking en-masse with the rest of your troops without having the powerful stack counter attack on them (i.e. when attacking devils in melee for example) - this way your more valuable troops will not get slaughtered so badly and so on and so on

Playing your cards right can enable you to beat an army four times your size during a siege, its not only the numbers, it's in how you use them.

While on the topic I hope that UBI will implement the equivalent difficulty settings of "Real Easy" and "Brain-dead" for those that do not want to invest time as to be able to enjoy it, as I hope that sales will be good enough to see a VERY long support and at least one quality expansion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HardWired
04-14-2006, 08:52 AM
I'm a HoMM newbie, and if I hand't played Age of Wonders a few years back, I never ever would have survived Agrael's first wave. Basically, I had to use Isabel against him, after spending all my gold on as large as army as possible, as upgraded as possible, without any of those weak unarmored griffins. Make sure you choose the battledive things when you start, use them against Succubus, and always attack the big demons first, only with units that can kill at least one, and use your hero to attack the demons too because they can usually kill 1 every attack!

Wicky3D
04-14-2006, 09:15 AM
Well UBI do you see????
The game is hard as heck and yet there are already lots of posts, tips and tricks and the community is growing!

Don't make the game easier and you will see empty forums with boredom because everybody beats everything with a *snap* of the finger.

By the way I've just beaten the record of the other dude who had only 20 squires left:
I survived the enemy wave with 12 squires and 1 marksman! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
(but with the knight, not Isabell - ...! )

GreatDeceiver
04-14-2006, 09:35 AM
First waves are critical; but after that, it becomes much easier.

I was able to capture the Inferno town with Isabel at the south after struggling for quite awhile; after that, the computer just sends heroes through those purple gates periodically, and it's just a matter of being prepared - having the map scouted out is a big help.

If you do manage to get a consistent production of Archangels going, the game is pretty much won. Archangels are incomparably better than arch-devils. The only crystal mine is pretty far underground, however, so be sure to build a resource silo relatively early. Also, remember to spread out your angels in separate stacks, so as to get more resurrection possibilities.

I personally found the scenario too heavily scripted, and quite silly if you do things that you're not 'supposed' to do. For instance, I killed Agrael before he got to Isabel's husband - had a huge retinue in the captured inferno town and a spare Fedex hero. This was literally on the next turn after he appeared. Even so, I got the cutscene with Isabel's husband being killed off, as if nothing had happened differently.

Also, the gate stuff was pretty lame. The underground wasn't very interesting either. I found it to be a weakish map, although that's perhaps to be expected, being a campaign scenario and all.

Nevertheless, the game is great, and I'm loving it. I'm constantly reminded of H3, and yet, it's a different experience. Production values are top-notch, and very 'reverential', or respectful, of the earlier games - that's a huge plus, in my opinion.

Finally, and this is perhaps a moot point: I must say that I hope the standalone scenario maps are carefully done, and that mapmaking tools are readily available upon release, or shortly thereafter - those will assure the longevity of the game, as it's always been the case with Heroes.

Nengkan
04-14-2006, 10:54 AM
I killed Agrael before he got to Isabel's husband - had a huge retinue in the captured inferno town and a spare Fedex hero. This was literally on the next turn after he appeared. Even so, I got the cutscene with Isabel's husband being killed off, as if nothing had happened differently.
lol I did the same with a Level1 hero i had there.

About different stacks of Archangels, i used all the different units and everything went fine in my case.

JediIgor
04-14-2006, 12:44 PM
You guys are crazy... there is no easier difficulty then "normal" and people are getting owned on the "normal" difficulty. I am very upset, I'd rather start out the game easy and scale up the difficulty as my enemies become weak.

Hakuryu9999
04-14-2006, 12:56 PM
Homm 3 was really hard to me the first time I played it. I didnt grasp the connections between hero skills, spells, and creature strengths and weaknesses. It took time to figure these out.

I just played through the Shadow of Death campaign again and owned the game since I now know how to play. I think it will be the same thing for Homm5... once you learn the strategies, the hard fights you have now wont be so hard.

Zamolxis108
04-14-2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by znork:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avaereene:

I want to buy and play it, but I can€t do it if I€m just going to be frustrated and reloading all the time. The balance wasn€t there for me.

So the game was to hard for you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The game deffinetly needs an "Easy" difficulty level.

XyZspineZyX
04-14-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, I didn't play the campaign so I can't tell anything about it.

But, I played the single scenario, which turned out to be ridiculuously easy. Let me tell you why. When I reached the Haven castle, I faced an army which was at least three times stronger then mine. He could have annihilated me single handed. But he didn't! I kept on harrassing his mines and posts and he did nothing. Then, suddenly he left the castle when I was nearby, did not attack me but went on capturing his mines back. I conquered the castle and settled in, but he didn't care. Then, a week or so later, the game ended: I won. That huge army could sweep me off but he didn't. It was as if we were allies. lol. I think there may be a serious problem with the AI.

goodrix
04-14-2006, 02:08 PM
The AI is balanced. Actually, I found it somehow too easy on Normal. I don't know if it only happened to me, but I was exploring the map with Godric backed up by very very few troops and all the lvl 17 Inferno heroes kept passing by him, never ever attacking. The enemy goes head on towards the town.

It all comes down to the battlefield skills and the resource strategy. Do not engage in unnecessary battles with neutral unless you overwhelm them. For the heaven castle you need wood/ore, gold and crystals, so fight only for these resources at first.

For the guys who have trouble beating Agrael try this:
- take Godric straight to the castle (you can capture the ore mine on your way there)
- capture town and build mage guild lvl 1
- free Isabela, give her all your army, take her to town and build mage guild lvl. 2
- head down the road from castle to catch Agrael
- engage him and now you should be able to kick his ***. Save and reload as many times as needed to win this battle. When you succeed beating Agrael with only 2/3 of your army lost, then you are ready to continue the campaign. If you can't, work on your battlefield strategy.

The game is great. I hope the campaigns will not be too short

Zamolxis108
04-14-2006, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by sfidanza:
I do not agree. On normal difficulty, I found the game reasonably challenging. sfidanza, that's not fair. You were in the beta, so you had time to get to know the game, to know its secrets. Of course it was not so difficult for you. For me is not that hard even on Heroic.

But this is a demo. And demo is supposed to tease the gamers, not frustrate them. They should be given an enjoyable experience, to motivate them to buy the game, regardless of their knowledge of the game, and for that there should be levels of difficulty FOR EVERYONE. That doesn't mean 10 different levels, but at least 5 like in previous games. Or let's say just 3 - but then "Normal" should have been twice as easy, "Hard" like "Normal" is now, and "Heroic" unchanged. This way everybody can enjoy it, and there is also a clearer difference when you step from one level to another (you actually would feel a different challange).

Marwynn2006
04-14-2006, 02:29 PM
I think the demo needs some tuning up. For example, I failed objectives several times and I didn't even see the objectives at the start of the mission nor was I told which of the objectives was failed. Turns out it was the capture a village thing.

So I decided to take the enemy village instead and made my way through some imps and captured the town on the lower right without a loss.

Then I still failed.

I guess I need to capture the one town they've illuminated and build Godric up before I free Isabel.

It's not that the demo is too hard, it's just that it wasn't the tutorial mission. I guess HOMM fans will love that part, but the people like me who are downloading this for the first time need our hands held for just a bit. It's easy to learn, only took a few minutes for us old hands at turn-based games, but a tutorial would've been nice.

Red_orbiT_
04-14-2006, 04:38 PM
Point is, the demo is tuned to make sure the Veterans wont be thinking "Ugh, this is so easy! Where's my Homm challenge! I'll never buy this game!"
Homm has a large base of veterans who they don't want to loose by making a much to easy demo. Remember that those campaign scenarios are well into the campaigns, this is not the tutorial missions. No warmup.
For the Veterans, this is very nice. For the beginners, it can be unsettling. My advice is to not give up. Later on you'll be happy there's a challenge left even after months of playing. This is one of the reasons the homm series have such a high replayability value.

dualcycle
04-14-2006, 05:03 PM
WoW. HOMM 5 is awesome. the graphics, the MUSIC, the gameplay. I love it. I'm so gonna get this game. I love the new toolbar on the bottom indicating what unit attacks next. the online duel is excellent. for 60 bucks this is a great deal, since it'll entertain me for a very long time.

The_Sybian
04-14-2006, 05:14 PM
I got absolutly stomped the first few times. I haven't played a HOMM game in years, but I figured I'm normally pretty good at games I shiould be able to hold my own :P

However, after spending some time with it I can easily win the first campaign map haven't tried the second yet and haven't tried the custom map with my new skills yet. I originally won the custom map by just taking the enemy city, his hero didn't try to take it back.

I guess if I could pass on one tip to anybody it's that creatures are the most important resource. It's not too important if you can't afford them all in the short term just be sure the units counts are rising as early as possible and you'll be golden. I don't really know how I lost the first few times I played now lol.

I just starting paying attention to HOMM 5 because they dropped starforce, but after playing the demo I CAN'T WAIT for this game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

akrav
04-14-2006, 05:56 PM
I didnt really have any difficulty with the first campaign, didnt save/reload at all and finished it on the first try, but I do have alot of experience from the beta.

the 2nd campaign, you have to rush to win, but its still quite easy.

kloomeh
04-14-2006, 07:29 PM
This is the first HOMM i've played. I've attempted the first map of the demo on Normal 12 or so times. I can defend my town against an attack fairly easily, unfourtunetly i lose pretty much all my troops, at which point i quit out of annoyance.

The game itself is great but biggest let down of HOMM i've noticed is the lack of details. I quite often feel overwhelmed while playing.
Once i lose my army for example, i normally just quit the game because i don't know how to buy cavaleirs or royal gryphons back again (my only useful troops i've noticed, i might've forgotten the proper names for them heh).
Essentially, the learning curve is medium to hard, and there's no documentation with all the nitty gritty details that i need, which results in my quitting out of fustration.

lk002
04-14-2006, 07:47 PM
You'll get all the documentations for every single detail in the final version.

What do you mean by "I don't know how to cavaliers back" ? There's a hire unit button in the town.

My impression of the demo so far can be sum up with one word: impressive.

The graphic is a given and the skills tree is magnificent; so many choices. I also like the fact that the lower level units are much more useful now.

I didn't get that far into the demo so that's all I can say for now.

I've already pre-ordered the game months ago so obviously I'm going to get it when it's out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JediIgor
04-14-2006, 08:02 PM
Umm yeah, you can barely get the Imperial Griffins building before the *2nd* attack. I haven't managed to build Knights or Angels at all, I'm getting my butt whooped http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Marwynn2006
04-14-2006, 11:07 PM
Go east of Dunmoor, there should be a second building there where you can hire 2 Cavaliers and 5 of the unupgraded Griffins.

It tided me over till I got the jousting range up.

For defense though, I found the Marksmen to be the true winners.

I just got Paladins up and running, about 2 dozen spread between Isabel and Godric. Going for Angels now, but I'm under siege. It takes some getting used to, but all in all I think this game is pretty impressive. I'm having turn-based fun again, just when you thought that the genre died.

To show my trust in this product, I'm pre-ordering it.

bman65
04-14-2006, 11:20 PM
Key things to help you win:
-Take the gold or artifact bonus
-Agrael is not released until a couple days after you release your hero from the prison, so feel free to take the castle on day 7 after you take both the wood and ore mines and the dwelling
- After you take the town take out the shadow dragons and take the gold mine, this is key to getting up a good defence
-i've been able to take them out on normal without any losses, with the key being to dive bomb them and use the cavaliers full charge to effect but as long as you don't lose too much you'll be fine
-The first building to build after taking the town is the city hall, you need to produce gold quick
-Build the castle upgrade, it helps a lot in sieges
-When sieged, wait inside the castle do not rush, wait till they get near the walls and have your shooters take them down (the exception is to battle dive the succubi/pit lords), also let the spikes take their toll on the enemy
-Guard your shooters so when they use gating they do not gate right beside them

When building up your castle do not get the upgrade buildings, build all the base dwellings if you can first. Your key units are your shooters, protect them. The enemy later on tends to go for your priests/inquisitors so leave a one square radius open around them to avoid getting fireballed.

The key to winning most of the battles is letting the enemy come to you. You have the advantage in ranged troops plus your royal griffins will hit anything that stays put (succubi and pit fiends), so they are forced to rush you

Lastly, the quicker you find the grail the sooner it gets easier.

H5forem
04-15-2006, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by phoenixzs:
Give it some time I think six months later you will find it much easier even a piece of cake.The danger is not the A.I. is too good the danger is A.I and difficulty could be too easy that would be bad.I havent played yet but I hope the computer is
"realy" hard at the hardest level,thats the way to play to challange the immposible.Any way give it time and please ubi dont decrease the hardness levelhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
On normal difficulty is quite easy...
The problem is like in H3... the A.I. have too much heroes... If all armies was on one heroe it will be much more difficult...
If u can survive the first month... then the attacks of A.I. will be less harder...

kloomeh
04-15-2006, 03:44 AM
I've just a couple nagging questions i hope you guys can help me with:
What does Luck and Morale do?
For the love of god, how do i seperate troops? (for example, 50 arches into two groups of 25)

Janne_p2005
04-15-2006, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by kloomeh:
I've just a couple nagging questions i hope you guys can help me with:
What does Luck and Morale do?
I'm not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong:
Luck = Maximum damage when your unit gets lucky.
Morale = Extra strikes/turns for a unit.


For the love of god, how do i seperate troops?
Use the shift -key.

Jolly-Joker
04-15-2006, 04:10 AM
Nope.
A lucky hit (i.e., Luck is triggered) will DOUBLE the damage of that particular strike.
If Moral is triggered, it will the unit take only HALF the usual time to get its next turn.

Janne_p2005
04-15-2006, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by Jolly-Joker:
Nope.
A lucky hit (i.e., Luck is triggered) will DOUBLE the damage of that particular strike.
If Moral is triggered, it will the unit take only HALF the usual time to get its next turn.

Thanks for clearing it out for me!

ankh88
04-15-2006, 05:05 AM
Well, as a new player I'll throw my 2 cents in here, too.

I can only hope that the final game will not be this hard. The demo was not made for new players. I am hoping that this is what is making it so frustrating. No new player will buy a frustrating game.

I have been playing the custom map, not the campaign. I was having a very enjoyable time exploring the map, and then it all crashed and burned at the end, when I am supposed to take control of that city.

The computer has ridiculously more troops than I do, the idiot catapult shoots aimlessly at the walls without me being able to control it, the computer's troops have the same stats as some of mine, but its do thousands of points of damage while mine do mere hundreds.

Is the solution to just burn turns while building up my army even more? I don't know--perhaps the computer will do the same, too, and it would just be pointless.

I can appreciate that people want to be able to "figure out how to defeat it" but when I have no instructions, no tutorial, etc., it's all guesswork, and the fun is quickly gone, especially when there seems to be no rhyme or reason why some things happen--lots of numbers on defense and luck and attack and such to be had, though, but what's it all mean? Beats me.

I guess I could use the trick that the other fellow mentioned--wait until the computer is out of the castle and then go in and take it, but I hope that's not what the designers intended.

It seems to me that a game like this has to be extremely well designed from mission to mission so that a player gets a little at a time and isn't overwhelmed. Too much all at once is very bad.

Xiop
04-15-2006, 08:05 AM
I have played HOMMIII and had a fun but challenging experiance. I was never outnumberd as badly as you are in this demo though. I beat both HommIII and the demo but I haven't tried the second map and the custom map was a toss up between easy and impossible=fun.

What you all have to realize is that a demo is supposed to give you an idea of how the game is. To get new blood, there should be an easy setting. Some people just want to win in their spare time and to get things off thier minds. You get pounded while just trying to....oh whats the word?........play around with the demo would you buy it? For some people it's next to impossible, what the heck is wrong with an easy setting? If you don't want it to be easy then don't put it on easy. If you're a new player and just download the demo then an easy setting will be challenging to them. Don't 'flame' people just because they're inexperianced, (and thanks to all who gave tips). Get the sales up and by summer there will be alot more experianced players to give veterans a challenge. It's for the good of everyone. Flame me if you will.

GreatDeceiver
04-15-2006, 08:08 AM
You can control the catapult shots manually if your hero has the proper skill - Advanced War Machines, I believe. The skill also increases damage and number of shots fired.

Heroes in HOMM are key (obviously), as they don't just cast spells and attack every once in awhile, but also have an effect on the entire army they're leading - their stats and skills affect everything, including damage and defense of troops. So, carefully building up the hero is paramount to getting good battle results.

HOMM can be a bit difficult to get into if you're not already familiar with the past games, or even TBS in general. The documentation in the demo doesn't do anything to alleviate that problem, but I hope they include a nice, comprehensive manual with the full version. I'm sure a tutorial will be included too, although tutorials can only hope to give a basic grasp of game mechanics, and those can be intuited pretty easily. An understanding of strategy in this game is something that comes with experience, and not just 'following a recipe'.

With that in mind, I think too many new players are approaching the game as if it were some RTS, and that's a certain recipe for failure. In a TBS, actions have to be much more carefully thought out, because effects aren't perceived immediately. Resource management goes way beyond the usual RTS 'built when there's enough' mentality, etc. A HOMM match isn't a 30-minute 'fix', and you really do have to plan ahead (weeks ahead) in a lot of cases, to get good results.

I can say that, at least for me, HOMM has always rewarded perseveration. Stick with the game, and try to understand it, and you'll have a fulfilling experience.

Xiop
04-15-2006, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by GreatDeceiver:
I can say that, at leaset for me, HOMM has always rewarded perseveration. Stick with the game, and try to understand it, and you'll have a fulfilling experience.

Great way to put it, but wouldn't an easy setting help new people learn without just giving up?

GreatDeceiver
04-15-2006, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Xiop:
wouldn't an easy setting help new people learn without just giving up?

I've got nothing at all against having easier difficulty settings in the game. That would just mean having milder consequences for poor choices - the effort to understand those poor choices would still be required by the player, though, and perhaps it would be more difficult to perceive them because of the lack of consequence. Does that make sense to you?

The campaign maps are too heavily scripted anyway, I think they should have included a second scenario map instead of the second campaign map: scenarios are more representative of HOMM gameplay, in my opinion.

Cheers!

The_Sybian
04-15-2006, 12:43 PM
I totally agree that the demo wasn't exactly geared towards newcomers to the series. Perhaps someone could flesh out the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic_V#Confirmed_Features wiki or throw up a 'basics to homm' thread. I know I had A LOT of trouble planning out my buildings before I found the SHOW FULL TREE button. Seriously, it really screwed me up the first four or five times I played :P

Red_orbiT_
04-15-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by ankh88:
Well, as a new player I'll throw my 2 cents in here, too.

I can only hope that the final game will not be this hard. The demo was not made for new players. I am hoping that this is what is making it so frustrating. No new player will buy a frustrating game.

I have been playing the custom map, not the campaign. I was having a very enjoyable time exploring the map, and then it all crashed and burned at the end, when I am supposed to take control of that city.

The computer has ridiculously more troops than I do, the idiot catapult shoots aimlessly at the walls without me being able to control it, the computer's troops have the same stats as some of mine, but its do thousands of points of damage while mine do mere hundreds.

Is the solution to just burn turns while building up my army even more? I don't know--perhaps the computer will do the same, too, and it would just be pointless.

I can appreciate that people want to be able to "figure out how to defeat it" but when I have no instructions, no tutorial, etc., it's all guesswork, and the fun is quickly gone, especially when there seems to be no rhyme or reason why some things happen--lots of numbers on defense and luck and attack and such to be had, though, but what's it all mean? Beats me.

I guess I could use the trick that the other fellow mentioned--wait until the computer is out of the castle and then go in and take it, but I hope that's not what the designers intended.

It seems to me that a game like this has to be extremely well designed from mission to mission so that a player gets a little at a time and isn't overwhelmed. Too much all at once is very bad.

Hopefully, all the guesswork will quickly disappear when you get the full version with tutorial and manual... anyway, I'll try illuminating a bit on all those statistics the units have. My information is actually more hommIII than hommV based, but hopefully most of it is relevant(otherwise, I'm sure someone will correct me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).
Unit stats: Attack and defense
Attack - attack will increase damage percentually for every point of attack skill the unit has higher than the opponents defense.
Example: Your unit has 5 attack. You opponents unit has 3 defense. 5-3 = 2 => Your unit will do 2*(unknown percentage) extra damage.
Defense - defense will decrease damage percentually for every point above the opponents attack skill.
*** *** ***
This means that you need high attack skill to attack units with high defense skill. This why Angels and such can seem to be "immune" to attack dealt to them by low level units- even large numbers of low level units.
Also, the Heroes attack skill and defense skill is directly added to all their units attack skill and defense skill, meaning that a high level Heroes units give your low level heroes untis a beating even though they seem statistically even.
Attack and defense skill looks pretty insignificant besides damage and hit points, but these things really count.

Hope that cleared at least something up(I'm not very pedagogic I'm afraid), and I hope that I'm not all wrong(wich I could be if they changed a lot in the basic engine, I haven't seen the manual either but I've played the demo).

Hakuryu9999
04-15-2006, 01:10 PM
HoMM has always been about a challenge. The 2 demo maps are not that hard at all, but you simply do not understand the game mechanics well enough yet.

I'm glad it's not casual gamer easy, as then I would be bored of it quite quick.

1. Buy siege equipment at your town. The First Aid tent and Ballista can turn the tide of a battle.
2. Buy 1-3 levels of the mage guild for good spells to use in combat. The level 1 mage guild lets you buy the Priest creature building also.
3. Plan your resource gathering and town building so you can maximize defense AND creatures available to buy. This is the thing that seperates noobs from veterans and gives the game alot of strategic depth. Do you try and kill a tough stack for a Crystal mine so you can get Angels early, or save your stacks and work on getting all the lower tier creature buildings built?

Everything in this type of town is heavily wood and ore dependant, so concentrate on that early game so you can build the Castle, and creature buildings for priests, swordsmen (footmen now?), and griffins.

I did the above, max'ing my defense and creature buildings as fast as I could, and lost maybe 10 creatures in the first big battle, and none in the 2nd. I felt it was quite easy at normal. A combo of spells, siege equipment, and smart town planning = teh win.

amorano
04-15-2006, 02:20 PM
Well, the first campaign mission wasn't too hard for me. I am a whee bit of a HMM series veteran.

However, the second campaign mission, where you are inferno, I can't do for the life of me. I have tried about six different strats, from trying futily to attack the gate with the angels in it with my wimpy 1st level hero, to hiding out in the sanctuaries for days on end hoping Godric would go grab the angels from the fort, making my fight easier.

I see everyone still saying the first mish is hard, even though it really isn't.

But not one person saying anything about #2.

I take it either everyone skipped it, its unbeatable, or no one cares http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Any hints for that one?

Red_orbiT_
04-15-2006, 02:31 PM
I dunno, I though the second was really easy. Just rush through it. Get to the hut of magic so you get to see something. Get to the red keymasters tent. Go through the portal. Go through the tunnel. Pick up what forces you can and get some experience on the way. That's all really...

Hakuryu9999
04-15-2006, 02:38 PM
Yes its pretty much a rush on the 2nd map. My 2nd time through I got beat by the hero that meets you once you get out of the underground, but thats only because I skipped the creature generator buildings favoring speed.

Only follow the road a short distance south and then take to the woods, you can get to the Red Keymasters tent quite easily doing this. Also, killing the first group of priests and getting the artifact that increases your movment rate over land, as it will help you outdistance enemies chasing you.

The one thing I am going to do different in my third try is to pickup a few gold resources and buy all the underground creatures available. I might even try and take the Fort(?) to upgrade them all before exiting the other side.

Nengkan
04-15-2006, 02:45 PM
amorano: to the east of the garrison there is a tower that blocks your way but will trigger an event. You need to find the key for that tower.

Edit

Hakuryu9999: You had th emoney for those buildings? Damn, i did it with what i had (not a surprise that only a Succubus and 4 Imps survived :P)

Red_orbiT_
04-15-2006, 05:02 PM
Well, I had a little money that I had picked up on the surface, but I never bothered with those fire elementals and their gold. I was expecting a town to show up... still, I didn't thought the endfight was very hard.

Nxsx
04-15-2006, 06:14 PM
I know this has been said before but, I want to bring it up again. The problem with not being able to actually get what you click on, i.e. resources, is very annoying. I would also like the wait button in combat instead of pressing the w button. The wait function has always been a great strategy in the Heroes series and needs to remain there.

Now that SF is gone and I can play, I am sure you will see me around more often. Cheers! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zeldor.
04-15-2006, 07:34 PM
You are all saying that manual, tutorial and so on will be in full version. I wouldn't be so sure of that [as map editor won't be there, customisable duels either...] and even if it will be there then it will be too late for many people. Demo is to encourage people to buy the game, to make them want play more of it. And if people cannot pass even one mission [which others call simple] then why should that person buy full version?
What is wrong in inserting tutorial in demo? That is just small part of game, but could make more people play H5 or TBS in general.
Ubi and Nival are releasing unfinished ****, which may be fun, but on on the day of release. Almost no maps, not many cities, bad navigation [that irritating clicking on resources and making hero move somewhere else], initiative & morale problems [yes, it is sometimes so irritating, like devils having 2 moves in a row, when you didn't have even 1 turn].
It lacks that element of fun - you can't relax playing that game.

The_Sybian
04-15-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm getting to know the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9914/meh8jh.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=meh8jh.jpg)

Ar_Pi
04-16-2006, 12:10 AM
do some1 know if there is a way to exit/load (some options menu) from the battle screen. its really annoying that i have to wait until i get flee/surrender to exit and load from the main menu.
it was the same with beta but this is already demo... :/

ankh88
04-16-2006, 01:45 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hakuryu9999:
HoMM has always been about a challenge. The 2 demo maps are not that hard at all, but you simply do not understand the game mechanics well enough yet.

1. Buy siege equipment at your town. The First Aid tent and Ballista can turn the tide of a battle.
2. Buy 1-3 levels of the mage guild for good spells to use in combat. The level 1 mage guild lets you buy the Priest creature building also.
3. Plan your resource gathering and town building so you can maximize defense AND creatures available to buy. This is the thing that seperates noobs from veterans and gives the game alot of strategic depth. Do you try and kill a tough stack for a Crystal mine so you can get Angels early, or save your stacks and work on getting all the lower tier creature buildings built?

Everything in this type of town is heavily wood and ore dependant, so concentrate on that early game so you can build the Castle, and creature buildings for priests, swordsmen (footmen now?), and griffins.
[QUOTE]

I find your number 1, about ballista and first aid tent interesting.

I haven't played the campaign map, which you're obviously talking about here, but I played through the custom Inferno map for hours with much frustration until I finally managed to win.

Throughout that one map, I found ballista and first aid tent to be utterly useless. The first aid tent heals perhaps 10 or 20 points of damage, which is insignificant. And it doesn't get that many turns. Although I did notice that the AI often would choose to whack the tent instead of hitting my creatures, so I imagine the AI agrees with you, but I didn't see it as much help at all. The ballista is even more useless--I found it to be an annoyance even to shoot it. I took one of the seige weapons skills so I got to aim it, and it got to shoot twice, which was ok. But the most it ever did was 1 kill, if it was shot at something weak. A stack of 500 archers? Ballista kills 1. Not very helpful.

Perhaps in the other map it was more so, but I'd love to hear more from veteran players on the usefulness of these things.

Daiden
04-16-2006, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by avaereene:
Overall I thought it was great in terms of graphics, combat (both the chess like style and the details like how much damage a unit would do), the two factions, the world map. I thought there could have been a bit more depth with troop upgrades, rather than just one tier, i.e. from archer to crossbow man. I would have liked quicker loads into and out of the city.

However, there was one main problem I found which made the experience frustrating. I played on normal difficulty and I found it to cross the line from being challenging to being frustrating, both in the campaign and the custom game. Didn€t matter whether the enemy was human or demon, they always had more troops and the troops seemed tougher when they were on the side of the enemy. Of course I can only comment on my experience and I don€t know how developers measure difficulty settings, but I will say that I€m a long time gamer (always playing on the default difficulty setting), and if I compare it to pretty much any other game I€ve played, I found it to be frustrating.

I want to buy and play it, but I can€t do it if I€m just going to be frustrated and reloading all the time. The balance wasn€t there for me.

I kinda hope Nival ignores this post, because we don't need another simple, dumbed down strategy game. Practice makes perfect. Don't expect to pick up the game and somehow be a master at it within the first few hours.

mz2528
04-16-2006, 04:03 PM
I've played the game, everything is great.

There are minor things I think should be improved:

*Camera movement in fighting battles.
*I did not see caravan building for moving the armies from one castle to another.
*Archdevil, I believe should be a little stronger. Actual look of the devil is not that good I think.
*I seem to find this minor problem, when I want to view the opposing unit on the fighting screen, I click the right button to see the unit statistic and then I click one more time the right button to check what magic is casted on the unit, and when that second click happens instead of cast screen the camera movement happens, kind of irritating since you have to do the same procedure like 3 times to check the casted magic.

(Comments above is just my personal opinion)

Other than that, everything is excellent.

saurug-saruman
04-18-2006, 06:29 AM
I used to play HOMM III once in a while and I decided to try the demo of HOMM V. I had one very basic problem and without any tutorial or manual I cannot tell whether it is a bug or not.
Each time I wanted to increase the hero€s army size in HOMM III, I simply went to the desired castle, buy troops, click on unit then drag&drop to the hero€s free slots. This cannot be done anymore with HOMM V. I get this guy (Godric) to conquer a castle and free the princess, I managed to buy some troops, but I cannot add them to any of the hero€s army. Transferring the hero from the castle gate to the garrison slot doesn't work either (I hope you understand what I mean). Any suggestions?

Another problem lies on the graphic side. My computer exceeds well the minimum requirements except for one: my Geforce fx go5200 video card with only 64 Mb of memory. When running the game the hero "stumbles" sometimes when traveling across the landscape. Moreover, the mouse movement is delayed and slowed down, which is quite annoying. Is there any trick to tell the graphic card to use part of the ram (1 Gb) to generate these effects more smoothly and behave naturally? I tried to change the image quality from very high to normal, but there€s no visible change.

Jolly-Joker
04-18-2006, 06:34 AM
If you want to transfer a stack, simply
click on the stack
move the stack over the desired slot SO THAT THE LEFT TOP CORNER IS ROUGLY OVER THE MIDDLE OF THE DESIRED SLOT
and click again.
Voila.