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XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 07:33 PM
Ok, lets continou to discuss the lesser known russian weapon systems. Todays subject is the R-27AE, the ARH version of the Alamo.

This has to be an incerdible weapon. Shepski told lastly that the R-27AE in the current LOMAC version has a head-on range range under ideal conditions of about 65 km ( lock-on range against fighter size target only about 55 km ). On the other hand, the AMRAAM in this LOMAC version had a maximum head-on range of only about 50 km. This is very impressive. Well, of course the AMRAAM has other strenghts, but lets for once concentrate on the less known R-27AE.

I did a little google search, but there are very few infos about this particular version of the Alamo. Anyone knows if this weapon is operational and when ( if ) it did enter service? It seems that it differs only very few from the R-27RE ( only different terminal-phase homing ), so it might not have been a big deal to introduce this weapon.

On another note, does anyone knows if this weapon has any HOJ capabilitys ?

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 07:33 PM
Ok, lets continou to discuss the lesser known russian weapon systems. Todays subject is the R-27AE, the ARH version of the Alamo.

This has to be an incerdible weapon. Shepski told lastly that the R-27AE in the current LOMAC version has a head-on range range under ideal conditions of about 65 km ( lock-on range against fighter size target only about 55 km ). On the other hand, the AMRAAM in this LOMAC version had a maximum head-on range of only about 50 km. This is very impressive. Well, of course the AMRAAM has other strenghts, but lets for once concentrate on the less known R-27AE.

I did a little google search, but there are very few infos about this particular version of the Alamo. Anyone knows if this weapon is operational and when ( if ) it did enter service? It seems that it differs only very few from the R-27RE ( only different terminal-phase homing ), so it might not have been a big deal to introduce this weapon.

On another note, does anyone knows if this weapon has any HOJ capabilitys ?

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 07:54 PM
MBot wrote:
- I did a little google search, but there are very few
- infos about this particular version of the Alamo.
- Anyone knows if this weapon is operational and when
- ( if ) it did enter service? It seems that it
- differs only very few from the R-27RE ( only
- different terminal-phase homing ), so it might not
- have been a big deal to introduce this weapon.


The R-27AE is similar to the R-27RE, but has the AGAT 9B-1103M active radar seeker in place of the 9B-1101K semi-active seeker.

http://home19.inet.tele.dk/airwing/aircraft/r-27-seek.jpg
9B-1103M active radar seeker

Seeker data:

length: 600 mm
diameter: 200 mm
weight: 14 kg

range: 20+ km against RCS=5m2

- On another note, does anyone knows if this weapon
- has any HOJ capabilitys ?

The 9B-1103M seeker has HOJ

There exists a more recent development of the 9B-1103M seeker, which is using fiber optic gyros, improved signal processor and has a lower weight - some 10 kg.

The R-27AE is "operational" in the sense that it has been developed, but AFAIK not in service.

JJ -

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 07:55 PM
Looks like the Russians are finally catching up! GRIN

Out of missiles; out of bullets...Switching to harsh language!

WAR is my business and business is Good!

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 08:01 PM
Thanks, these are some good infos.
With HOJ and that range, this baby will give the Sue in LOMAC a good BVR weapon.

I wonder if Russia will ever put this weapon in servce, as the R-77 seems to be their primary future ARH. It's a bit strange that they concentrate so much on the R-77, as it the R-27AE seems to outrange the R-77.

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 08:12 PM
MBot wrote:
- Thanks, these are some good infos.
- With HOJ and that range, this baby will give the Sue
- in LOMAC a good BVR weapon.

Hmm - I dont know - the idea with ARH missiles is that you can launch them from TWS mode and engage multiple targets simultaneously - none of the "Sues" in Lomac has multiple targeting capability, so the advantage is minimal.

- I wonder if Russia will ever put this weapon in
- servce, as the R-77 seems to be their primary future
- ARH. It's a bit strange that they concentrate so
- much on the R-77, as it the R-27AE seems to outrange
- the R-77.

The R-27AE is nowhere near as agile as the R-77 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif - R-27 range of missiles were designed to engage targets manouvering at up to 8Gs, whereas the R-77 to engage targets manouvering at up to 12Gs - besides, there are new developments of the R-77 underway - one with an enlarged rocket engine(similar in appearance to the R-27E), and another one with RAM-jet engine..so /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



JJ -

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 08:20 PM
JJ_alfa wrote:
- Hmm - I dont know - the idea with ARH missiles is
- that you can launch them from TWS mode and engage
- multiple targets simultaneously - none of the "Sues"
- in Lomac has multiple targeting capability, so the
- advantage is minimal.

I'm thinking about launching a weapon at a bigger range than the oposite plane, then have the possibility to break lock ( after R-27AE has closed enough ) and evade enemy missles. The R-27AE solves the main critic the R-27RE got, that it needs a lock till impact. Of course the Eagle has a great advantage with its multiple target ability. But on a 2vs2 situation, R-27AE equiped Sues might have quite good cards.


- The R-27AE is nowhere near as agile as the R-77 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif - R-27 range of missiles were
- designed to engage targets manouvering at up to 8Gs,
- whereas the R-77 to engage targets manouvering at up
- to 12Gs - besides, there are new developments of the
- R-77 underway - one with an enlarged rocket
- engine(similar in appearance to the R-27E), and
- another one with RAM-jet engine..so /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ah, that sounds plausible. Thanks.

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 08:44 PM
MBot wrote:

- I'm thinking about launching a weapon at a bigger
- range than the oposite plane, then have the
- possibility to break lock ( after R-27AE has closed
- enough ) and evade enemy missles.

Yeah true /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



JJ -

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 08:53 PM
- MBot wrote:
-
-- I'm thinking about launching a weapon at a bigger
-- range than the oposite plane, then have the
-- possibility to break lock ( after R-27AE has closed
-- enough ) and evade enemy missles.

By the time your missile will reach the target, the enemy missile(Aim-120) will be some time away from you due to longer range of the R-27AE and even R-27RE. So no matter if you have an AE or an RE you will have a range advantage which will give you time to try to evade the enemy missile once your missile hits the enemy plane(or misses).

_________________________________________

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/grave2000ca/s2_21.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 10:11 PM
Well...If the R-77 is modelled in LOMAC (which, from the pictures, I am assuming it is) us NATO throttle jockeys are going to have a very hard row to hoe...

Out of missiles; out of bullets...Switching to harsh language!

WAR is my business and business is Good!

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 11:04 PM
Yes, the only flyable aircraft that has the capability to use R-77 in Lomac is the MiG-29 Fulcrum C (MiG-29 9.13S).

_________________________________________

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/grave2000ca/s2_21.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 09:25 AM
R27 AE is not in service. OK then could we have AIM120C6, developed but not in service yet (will be soon)?
Or should we prepare for some RED bias jsut like in IL2FB?

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 11:21 AM
R-27€... Is not served for one reason: this rocket was made on Ukraine. Therefore choice of Russia R-77.

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 11:32 AM
FireBird77 wrote:
- R27 AE is not in service. OK then could we have
- AIM120C6, developed but not in service yet (will be
- soon)?
- Or should we prepare for some RED bias jsut like in
- IL2FB?

ofcourse there is a difference between not in service because its still under development, and not in service because there is no money for it. the first is the US problem, the second russias problem (in general)

99th Skywolves
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