Stewart deserves a medal [Archive]

Bearcat99

05-21-2011, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I was 'informed' yesterday that President Obama just spent 20 billion to bring 1000's of Hamas members here to the US and set them up for life on full pay. That by our resident Army Recruiter. I don't know if his source is Fox or talk radio but what one says, the attack machine echoes. Got to wonder if there's any truth to it at all?

I find that... difficult to believe. If for no other reason that it would be political suicide and just stupid.. and President Obama may be a lot of things.. but stupid isn't one of them. Also it was not "just" .. the HR that is being spoken of was in 2009..

Of course like most BS that passes itself off as news these days ... it is all in who you ask.

He did it (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/please-call-the-white-house)

He didn't do it (http://%5Dhttp://www.wnd.com/?pageId=89032)

What the federal register says (http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488)

Now how that equates to being "set up for life with full pay" .. is just beyond me but typical of the rhetoric bandied about by Fox News & it's supporters.. for the past 4 years at least I might add (since it became apparetn that Obama was a serious contender for the white house.. not a joke like so may thought initially..) .. 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. 365 days a year and all this under the mantle of "patriotism" (of course if you happen to not agree with these notions then YOU are un American, a terrorist sympathiser, a socialist .... etc etc etc.. ),,, the guy who says that the sitting President can suck on the end of his shotgun barrel.. [i]that guy[/url] is a patriot ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

and of course with stuff like this (http://jkshaws.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/obama-and-hamas/) all over the place .. heck I'd be worried too.. fortunately for me I don't have $hit for brains and at least try to look at all sides of a given situation before I jump to conclusions.. Otherwise I would have sold my house and been getting ready for the end of the world .. now moved to October 21st by the way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bearcat99

05-21-2011, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I was 'informed' yesterday that President Obama just spent 20 billion to bring 1000's of Hamas members here to the US and set them up for life on full pay. That by our resident Army Recruiter. I don't know if his source is Fox or talk radio but what one says, the attack machine echoes. Got to wonder if there's any truth to it at all?

I find that... difficult to believe. If for no other reason that it would be political suicide and just stupid.. and President Obama may be a lot of things.. but stupid isn't one of them. Also it was not "just" .. the HR that is being spoken of was in 2009..

Of course like most BS that passes itself off as news these days ... it is all in who you ask.

He did it (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/please-call-the-white-house)

He didn't do it (http://%5Dhttp://www.wnd.com/?pageId=89032)

What the federal register says (http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488)

Now how that equates to being "set up for life with full pay" .. is just beyond me but typical of the rhetoric bandied about by Fox News & it's supporters.. for the past 4 years at least I might add (since it became apparetn that Obama was a serious contender for the white house.. not a joke like so may thought initially..) .. 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. 365 days a year and all this under the mantle of "patriotism" (of course if you happen to not agree with these notions then YOU are un American, a terrorist sympathiser, a socialist .... etc etc etc.. ),,, the guy who says that the sitting President can suck on the end of his shotgun barrel.. that guy is a patriot ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

and of course with stuff like this (http://jkshaws.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/obama-and-hamas/) all over the place .. heck I'd be worried too.. fortunately for me I don't have $hit for brains and at least try to look at all sides of a given situation before I jump to conclusions.. Otherwise I would have sold my house and been getting ready for the end of the world .. now moved to October 21st by the way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

M_Gunz

05-21-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I was 'informed' yesterday that President Obama just spent 20 billion to bring 1000's of Hamas members here to the US and set them up for life on full pay. That by our resident Army Recruiter. I don't know if his source is Fox or talk radio but what one says, the attack machine echoes. Got to wonder if there's any truth to it at all?

Sounds like that recruiter has taken part in another secret LSD experiment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe at a Tea Party as that would explain the rest of them too.

M_Gunz

05-21-2011, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Otherwise I would have sold my house and been getting ready for the end of the world .. now moved to October 21st by the way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Rapture Day is predicted to be tomorrow. Only those not Taken will have to stick it out till October, or so I read.

The recruiter said 20 billion. My guess is that the amount has to go up the same way that McCarthy inflated the numbers of exposed communists in every speech he gave only far more inflated to match the budget and deficit number talks these days.

He also lays the destruction of the steel and automobile industries solely upon the unions, which isn't true.

Personally I pity anyone in any branch of our military who doesn't profess to be a Republican.

Bearcat99

05-21-2011, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Rapture Day is predicted to be tomorrow. Only those not Taken will have to stick it out till October, or so I read.

The recruiter said 20 billion. My guess is that the amount has to go up the same way that McCarthy inflated the numbers of exposed communists in every speech he gave only far more inflated to match the budget and deficit number talks these days.

He also lays the destruction of the steel and automobile industries solely upon the unions, which isn't true.

Personally I pity anyone in any branch of our military who doesn't profess to be a Republican.

Nope .. I have been listening to Camping for some time now .. it was May 21st.. as for the republican thing..

Yes I can imagine that it would be kind of tough in the military.. Personally I think many members of both parties need to be brought up on charges of treason and jailed.

I left the democratic party.. I am registered as an independent now.. but I prefer to vote the candidate ... and I certainly do not vote my values .. since I am not running.. and given the sheer weight,gravity and number of decisions that a president has to make to make a choice to cast a vote based on an one or two issues.. is foolish at least to me.

I want a president who thinks before he speaks, speaks well when he does, tries to look at more than just one side of any issue, is not afraid to tell the truth, even when it is not gong to benefit him politically, one that will not just give lip service to looking out for but actually try to do something that will help the average American, again.. even when it is not going to benefit him/her politically.. I want a president that does not put his faith on display, but lives it out every day in the way he carries himself and treats people.. I do pay attention to what kind of parent he/she is and also what kind of person they chose as a spouse.

I will never vote for a candidate who says inflammatory things just to score points with the unthinking.. and there are a lot of them.. If it weren't for sound bites many folks wouldn't have a clue as to what's going on, not that I am fully informed either, but I know people who will not listen to say.. AlJazeera.. just because it is AlJazeera. Back in the 80s there was a radio personality in N.Y. named Bob Grant.. and I heard so much rhetoric about this man.. so I decided to check him out myself.. and I listened to his program, and the people who would call in, for a year or two.. but in the end I was able to decide for myself what kind of man I thought he was.. needless to say I never became a fan.. but it was based on fact.

I fear that if we as a people do not wake up.. and acknowledge what is happening to our country.. and has been underway for quite some time.. at least 3 decades if not 6 ... we will be doomed.

M_Gunz

05-22-2011, 02:22 AM

Sorry Bear but the TV generations often don't remember back as far as the last commercial and believe whatever their approved sources tell them even when they are told "it's only for entertainment purposes" which is code for "there's so much slander and libel we would get sued if we called this fact".

Talk radio is the dissemination service for the Goebbels-method Repeated Big Lies. And Herr Goebbels was right, the lies repeated enough "become" truth. We have seated politicians repeating them as fact now with no one ready to take senators to court for what they should. I read about 1930's Germany and listen to the people in the documentaries; over and over they say the progression all seemed reasonable at the time. I look at the rhetoric and the methods especially the scapegoating and attention fixating and it's the same I've seen in action here since 1980. America is being hijacked by people who think that others haven't "earned their rights" and they dare call anyone who believes that rights are not something you earn un-American. Yes, they are destroying the country.

jarink

05-22-2011, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by carts:
As a Brit,or despite being a Brit! I used to watch "The Daily show" on a regular basis,It was shown over here the night after U.S transmission,Due to low viewing figures it got canned and we only get the Global Edition,but God help me I love this show!

I gave up on the Daily Show when Stewart changed it into a left-wing political forum and it stopped being funny. Both happened at about the same time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Bearcat99

05-23-2011, 05:06 AM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif What just happened..

M_Gunz

05-23-2011, 11:30 AM

There -are- people besides O'Reilly who think that Palin would make a presidential candidate. From that POV.......

Cajun76

05-23-2011, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Sorry Bear but the TV generations often don't remember back as far as the last commercial and believe whatever their approved sources tell them even when they are told "it's only for entertainment purposes" which is code for "there's so much slander and libel we would get sued if we called this fact".

Talk radio is the dissemination service for the Goebbels-method Repeated Big Lies. And Herr Goebbels was right, the lies repeated enough "become" truth. We have seated politicians repeating them as fact now with no one ready to take senators to court for what they should. I read about 1930's Germany and listen to the people in the documentaries; over and over they say the progression all seemed reasonable at the time. I look at the rhetoric and the methods especially the scapegoating and attention fixating and it's the same I've seen in action here since 1980. America is being hijacked by people who think that others haven't "earned their rights" and they dare call anyone who believes that rights are not something you earn un-American. Yes, they are destroying the country.

I don't think you give the people of this country enough credit, Gunz. Air America was a flop and MSNBC's ratings are pretty low. People are seeing through the Big Lie Machine for the most part.

GoToAway

05-23-2011, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Cajun76:
I don't think you give the people of this country enough credit, Gunz. Air America was a flop and MSNBC's ratings are pretty low. People are seeing through the Big Lie Machine for the most part. All that proves is that most Americans are too uneducated and ignorant to deal with media that isn't spun into a narrative and spoon-fed to them.

It's sad, really. So much potential is squandered through sheer ignorance.

Thankfully, men like Stewart are here to help shine a light on it. Comedy is the only appropriate forum as well. It can't be saved, so we might as well laugh while the ship goes down.

Cajun76

05-23-2011, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
I don't think you give the people of this country enough credit, Gunz. Air America was a flop and MSNBC's ratings are pretty low. People are seeing through the Big Lie Machine for the most part. All that proves is that most Americans are too uneducated and ignorant to deal with media that isn't spun into a narrative and spoon-fed to them.

It's sad, really. So much potential is squandered through sheer ignorance.

Thankfully, men like Stewart are here to help shine a light on it. Comedy is the only appropriate forum as well. It can't be saved, so we might as well laugh while the ship goes down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there *are* the big liberal TV networks as well, which Gunz somehow missed when talking about the massive influence of media on the public, as if talk radio were some juggernaut with no competition. I would say the TV media has far more influence over Joe Public, but it fits an image that is pushed incessantly.

Of course, cute catch phrases like "narrative" and "spoon-fed" are ironic when the only opposition to the faux-liberal Big Lie Machine are continuously attacked. Hasn't that been the historical first step in controlling populations through media: shut down or marginalize the opposition? Accuse them of lies and distortion so often it becomes the "truth"?

There's no problem with the faux liberal media competing with conservative ideas, I welcome it, but I don't see the same from the other side.

As far as Stewart, his kind of destructive cynicism is exactly the sort of thing the country doesn't need if we're ever to make progress.

A defeatist attitude does nothing to fix problems.

GoToAway

05-23-2011, 01:17 PM

You're not worth getting the thread locked over.

M_Gunz

05-23-2011, 03:59 PM

I don't think that it's liberals who are trying to deny the separation of church and state in the first amendment. I've never heard the words "they haven't earned their rights" from anything but a right wing "patriot". Senator Bachmann's ideas are almost as loony as Palin's.

But perhaps you have some links to these big liberal lies? Something that can be cross-checked and shown to be constantly repeated and factually wrong? I have to confess that I haven't heard any whoppers from that side.

Ba5tard5word

05-24-2011, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Cajun76:
As far as Stewart, his kind of destructive cynicism is exactly the sort of thing the country doesn't need if we're ever to make progress.

Haha, good one... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh wait you're serious? Hmm... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

horseback

05-24-2011, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I don't think that it's liberals who are trying to deny the separation of church and state in the first amendment. I've never heard the words "they haven't earned their rights" from anything but a right wing "patriot". Senator Bachmann's ideas are almost as loony as Palin's.

But perhaps you have some links to these big liberal lies? Something that can be cross-checked and shown to be constantly repeated and factually wrong? I have to confess that I haven't heard any whoppers from that side. Let's start with this one...

Bush Stole the Florida Election in 2000 (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html)

Even when a liberal bastion like the New York Times paints itself into a corner and is forced to admit the awful truth a year after the fact, we still hear high elected officials from the Democratic Party making the claim 11 years later.

I got more...

cheers

horseback

horseback

M_Gunz

05-24-2011, 04:55 PM

I saw the vote recount and the hanging chad BS. Only one hole in the row was punched and it didn't completely cut the paper out so hey, let's throw out far more votes than the election was decided by.

Now here's the thing. It's EASY to f-up a die so that certain holes ALWAYS make hanging chads. Just **** the punch and bang a small nick in the die for the ones you want to make chads, not votes. EASY TO DO. And so direct, only the people who vote for the candidate chosen to chad will have their vote made null and void.

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER VOTE BUT WHO WAS IN CHARGE?

Not only that but in the 2000 and 2004 elections there were GOP lawyers who went to GOP judges and got 1,000's of votes discounted not on a case by case basis but whole DISTRICTS at a time. I know from listening to election day reports, the numbers were amazing -- far more than the margin of 'victory'.

And for 2004 there was a LOT of re-districting especially in Texas, all benefiting the GOP, all done by the GOP.

So I don't feel bad when people say that the election was stolen and I take it as some kind of confirmation at how fast so many people were denied process over having their VOTES taken away even those shown to be legitimate.

I don't expect different for 2012 except that now it will be so much cleaner with computers.

What I want is a RECEIPT for my vote with MY NAME, SSN, and CHOICES on it. I don't HAVE to show anyone but BY GOD I'd like to be able to get with others and have the proof to challenge the count results! I'm SICK UP TO HERE with the cheating.

arthursmedley

05-24-2011, 05:35 PM

Horseback, I read the link to the article you posted and I must admit I don't quite draw the same conclusions you do.
If I have read the piece correctly it seems to find that if the counties had been allowed to carry on the recount as ordered by the Florida courts, using the methods they intended then indeed Bush would have won. However, a recount using a more rigorous and no doubt time-consuming method, would have given the vote to Gore.
If you add in the other factors around the election which Gunz has alluded to then I just think it shows what a flawed process it was and how open to abuse it had become.

Btw, Not being a citizen of the United States I have no axe to grind here. Indeed, TV debates not withstanding, didn't Nixon have good grounds to claim the 1960 election was stolen by Joe Kennedys dollars?

This;

Originally posted by M_Gunz:

What I want is a RECEIPT for my vote with MY NAME, SSN, and CHOICES on it. I don't HAVE to show anyone but BY GOD I'd like to be able to get with others and have the proof to challenge the count results! I'm SICK UP TO HERE with the cheating.

I find a not unreasonable idea.

Airmail109

05-24-2011, 06:11 PM

Stupid *** Liberals!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2NjlINxT0

horseback

05-24-2011, 07:13 PM

Arthur, I would point out that the NY Times is unabashedly on the Liberal Democrat side to the point of being a Mover & Shaker. Of course you would expect them to try to minimize the opposition's success. Wikipedia's account is a bit more even-handed, and covers the whole election controversy. I will remind everyone that Mr. Gore is probably the first US presidential candidate to ever renege on a concession; in my opinion, this puts him well below Richard Nixon in the class department becasue Nixon had FAR more cause to demand a recount in 1960 than Gore had in 2000.

I too remember the 2000 election and the legal contortions that went on; bear in mind that Gore only wanted a recount in four HEAVILY DEMOCRAT counties, absolutely NOT the whole state, and that the confusion on the ballots in those counties was due to local county (Democrat) elected officials who put them together,and the obviously politically inspired interference by the Florida Supreme Court, which was what prompted the US Supreme Court to act.

It is interesting that you cite the fact that ballots were thrown out in those counties over the proverbial 'hanging chad' but that you forget that the same Democrat officials who hosed up the ballots in the first place were the very ones who decided which ballots were valid (albeit with observers from both parties present). I sincerely doubt that their decisions favored votes for Bush.

I also remember that hundreds of absentee ballots for military personnel were purposely delayed by several states and counties under Democrat control precisely because they believed that most military personnel would vote Republican (in fact, Republicans are generally more likely to use absentee ballots than Democrats overall, never mind the military). I personally had three friends whose absentee ballots were delivered to them overseas AFTER the election, something that never happened to me during my overseas Navy days in the seventies, when everything went by an even slower and less efficient form of snail mail.

While we're at it, let's point out that the MSM were heavily weighted in favor of Gore, and that they attempted to 'call' Florida an hour before the polls in the western panhandle (which is in the Central Time Zone) closed, which led many voters to believe that the polls in their area were already closed. Let's not forget how the premature forecasting discouraged some voters in the western states to even bother to vote because their favorite Talking Head assured them that it was a done deal, which probably cost the Republicans a few House and Senate seats that year, which tied up the Senate after one RINO's defection in 2001.

You may recall that the rules were changed after that, because of the way the Mainstream Media 'accidentally' influenced the results (just coincidentally for their guys).

I live in San Diego, literally less than two miles from the border; I remember going into my polling place and causing all kinds of aggravation because I insisted on signing for my ballot in ink instead of the pencil they offered me. At the time, California did not require you to present your ID or any other proof of your identity or eligibility and there is no doubt in my mind that I spoiled at least one page full of votes intended to go for Gore in my mostly Latino district. I should point out that the police units who were shown on TV making sure that no illegal electioneering or voter intimidation was going on in the more --shall we say conservative?--districts were notably absent from my neighborhood, and the usual suspects were hard at work all around me (were I not a rather thick bodied male of a certain age, I probably would have received more attention).

I also remember the various Democrat 'action' groups who were intentionally registering Mexican Nationals who were in the country without proper documentation throughout California, promising them that if the Dems got into power, they would get all the goodies of citizenship without all the bother of actually following the rules and regulations that people whose countries don't share a border with the US have to follow...

The fact is that were were several other states where there were voting irregularities, and they almost all seemed to favor Democrat candidates, not just Gore.

Now on one thing, I am in total agreement with Gunz: you should have to present (in person) proof of your identity to vote at a polling place or obtain an absentee ballot, and that they should be able to confirm whether you voted (not how you voted) based on your Social Security Number.

I warn you though that you should be careful what you wish for: that particular requirement would in my opinion cost the Dems about 3 to 5 million Latino votes in California, Arizona, and Nevada alone.

cheers

horseback

Ba5tard5word

05-24-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by horseback:
Arthur, I would point out that the NY Times is unabashedly on the Liberal Democrat side to the point of being a Mover & Shaker. Of course you would expect them to try to minimize the opposition's success. Wikipedia's account is a bit more even-handed, and covers the whole election controversy. I will remind everyone that Mr. Gore is probably the first US presidential candidate to ever renege on a concession; in my opinion, this puts him well below Richard Nixon in the class department becasue Nixon had FAR more cause to demand a recount in 1960 than Gore had in 2000.

I too remember the 2000 election and the legal contortions that went on; bear in mind that Gore only wanted a recount in four HEAVILY DEMOCRAT counties, absolutely NOT the whole state, and that the confusion on the ballots in those counties was due to local county (Democrat) elected officials who put them together,and the obviously politically inspired interference by the Florida Supreme Court, which was what prompted the US Supreme Court to act.

It is interesting that you cite the fact that ballots were thrown out in those counties over the proverbial 'hanging chad' but that you forget that the same Democrat officials who hosed up the ballots in the first place were the very ones who decided which ballots were valid (albeit with observers from both parties present). I sincerely doubt that their decisions favored votes for Bush.

I also remember that hundreds of absentee ballots for military personnel were purposely delayed by several states and counties under Democrat control precisely because they believed that most military personnel would vote Republican (in fact, Republicans are generally more likely to use absentee ballots than Democrats overall, never mind the military). I personally had three friends whose absentee ballots were delivered to them overseas AFTER the election, something that never happened to me during my overseas Navy days in the seventies, when everything went by an even slower and less efficient form of snail mail.

While we're at it, let's point out that the MSM were heavily weighted in favor of Gore, and that they attempted to 'call' Florida an hour before the polls in the western panhandle (which is in the Central Time Zone) closed, which led many voters to believe that the polls in their area were already closed. Let's not forget how the premature forecasting discouraged some voters in the western states to even bother to vote because their favorite Talking Head assured them that it was a done deal, which probably cost the Republicans a few House and Senate seats that year, which tied up the Senate after one RINO's defection in 2001.

You may recall that the rules were changed after that, because of the way the Mainstream Media 'accidentally' influenced the results (just coincidentally for their guys).

I live in San Diego, literally less than two miles from the border; I remember going into my polling place and causing all kinds of aggravation because I insisted on signing for my ballot in ink instead of the pencil they offered me. At the time, California did not require you to present your ID or any other proof of your identity or eligibility and there is no doubt in my mind that I spoiled at least one page full of votes intended to go for Gore in my mostly Latino district. I should point out that the police units who were shown on TV making sure that no illegal electioneering or voter intimidation was going on in the more --shall we say conservative?--districts were notably absent from my neighborhood, and the usual suspects were hard at work all around me (were I not a rather thick bodied male of a certain age, I probably would have received more attention).

I also remember the various Democrat 'action' groups who were intentionally registering Mexican Nationals who were in the country without proper documentation throughout California, promising them that if the Dems got into power, they would get all the goodies of citizenship without all the bother of actually following the rules and regulations that people whose countries don't share a border with the US have to follow...

The fact is that were were several other states where there were voting irregularities, and they almost all seemed to favor Democrat candidates, not just Gore.

Now on one thing, I am in total agreement with Gunz: you should have to present (in person) proof of your identity to vote at a polling place or obtain an absentee ballot, and that they should be able to confirm whether you voted (not how you voted) based on your Social Security Number.

I warn you though that you should be careful what you wish for: that particular requirement would in my opinion cost the Dems about 3 to 5 million Latino votes in California, Arizona, and Nevada alone.

cheers

horseback

Brought to you by the great taste of...

http://theislamicstandard.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/fox_news_logo.jpg

M_Gunz

05-25-2011, 02:01 AM

I have never been able to vote without showing who I am to match the rolls.

Bearcat99

05-25-2011, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
There -are- people besides O'Reilly who think that Palin would make a presidential candidate. From that POV.......

Yeah.. scary isn't it.. here is a woman who was not qualified to be one step from the big chair 3 years ago and she proved it by opening her mouth.. and now after quitting the governorship of Russia's American neighbor.. and jumping on the talk show/lecture circuit.. according to some she is now qualified to actually sit in the big chair.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Originally posted by Cajun76:
I don't think you give the people of this country enough credit, Gunz. Air America was a flop and MSNBC's ratings are pretty low. People are seeing through the Big Lie Machine for the most part.

The problem with you and people who think like you do is that when you folks say things like "the Big Lie Machine " it becomes quite clear that you are only seeing half the picture because you keep seeing the big "liberal" lie machine, when in truth the lie machine has elements on both sides of the political spectrum, yet you want to only see one side of it.

We didn't get where we are today because of Obama, or Bush, or Reagan, or Clinton, but because our elected officials on both sides of the aisle continue to cloud the real issues with smoke and mirrors and dodge the truth while "The American people" that the right claims to speak exclusively for are left looking for the pea under the shell. People who think like you do whether they admit it or not believe that the only true patriots are obviously republicans and if you do not share their views then you are a part of some vast liberal machine that wants to take away our freedoms and hand the country over to socialists and foreigners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You need to open your eyes wider and see the whole picture.. Case in point.. the debt.. If all I listened to was Fox News I would think that the debt we have now was caused buy the current administration.. and that fiscal responsibility went out the window in 2009. In reality however, were it not for the two under funded wars and the Bush tax cuts, which by the way never did see the job creation and growth that many republicans still claim to this day will come from cutting taxes on the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the future and the ever shrinking middle class, we would not be where we are today. Had the banks not been deregulated to the extent that they were in the 80s and 90s (read under Reagan & Clinton) the fiscal crisis we are still undergoing could not have occurred.. and had not every single administration since Johnson's not "borrowed" from the social security fund.. it would not be in the mess it is in... Had the pharmaceutical and insurance industries just to name a few not been allowed to write the current policy we have in dealing with health care (that is a fact .. the congress & senate just signed off on it but lobbyists and those who were not looking out for the "American people" wrote the current policies, that is why they favor the industry and not the people), it to would be in better shape and our currently aging population would not be looking at the dark days that are coming.

The election in 2000?

Well that was obvious.. regardless to what some say.. So if I believe that then why did I vote for Bush in 2004? Because I thought it was best for the country at the time considering we were in two wars and there was a lot of uncertainty. I felt that the folks who had their hands on the wheel of the ship of state were better suited to keep driving than to have someone new come in considering the delicacy of the situation ... but let's see how many folks who were initially opposed to president Obama might have that attitude with the current administration in 2012... I doubt there will be many. They would attempt to send a person who abandoned their post to the white house rather than look at or even acknowledge any accomplishments by the current administration.

Originally posted by Aimail101:
Stupid *** Liberals!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2NjlINxT0

Case in point.. bringing SP into a serious discussion.. but that is the mind set..

Originally posted by horseback:

I also remember the various Democrat 'action' groups who were intentionally registering Mexican Nationals who were in the country without proper documentation throughout California, promising them that if the Dems got into power, they would get all the goodies of citizenship without all the bother of actually following the rules and regulations that people whose countries don't share a border with the US have to follow...

The fact is that were were several other states where there were voting irregularities, and they almost all seemed to favor Democrat candidates, not just Gore.

Now on one thing, I am in total agreement with Gunz: you should have to present (in person) proof of your identity to vote at a polling place or obtain an absentee ballot, and that they should be able to confirm whether you voted (not how you voted) based on your Social Security Number.

I warn you though that you should be careful what you wish for: that particular requirement would in my opinion cost the Dems about 3 to 5 million Latino votes in California, Arizona, and Nevada alone.

I have never been able to vote without showing who I am to match the rolls.

Me niether ... in 37 years.. Not only that.. the voting irregularities in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and other states, not only in 200 but 2004 as well were not small potatoes either..

iroseland01

05-25-2011, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Me niether ... in 37 years.. Not only that.. the voting irregularities in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and other states, not only in 200 but 2004 as well were not small potatoes either..

Ditto.. Lets also not leave out voting problems in Il.. That would be for any year in any race they have.. Used to be folks in Chicago were ok with the corruption as long as the garbage got collected, snow removal happened, and their kids in public school could read. They might be getting one out of three these days..

I was going to bust out my favorite Nietzsche quote here but that would only be stating a fact.

So, I am going with Hue Akston,

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."

People keep claiming that right and left are somehow actually different. I would suggest that this is a load of dookie... The idea is based on a fairly pointless list of vague differences..

We are told that one side is the for religious looons... Yet, when was the last time either side elected an Atheist?
We are told that one is for big business while the other is for the people... Yet, when its time to collect donations they both take big fat dollars from General Electric, AIG and Morgan Stanly.

We are told that one side is a bunch of warmongers while the other side is the party of peace.. Yet, the peace party had a president that authorized the use of Nuclear weapons twice, another failed to invade Cuba and now we are dropping bombs on Libya without congressional approval.. I just don't think I can tell the difference..

Both claim to be for personal freedom.. But really, they only disagree on what personal freedom is.

If we plot the dems and the republicans on a line that starts at 0 government ( anarchy ) and ends at total government ( totalitarianism ) both are about as close to totalitarianism. The goal of the constitution was to land us somewhere pretty close to the middle of the line. You know, where there is just enough government to guarantee personal freedom and personal property.

M_Gunz

05-25-2011, 01:09 PM

Anyone can go online and get the budget information that counts from 1900 to last year. The info is year, money taken in and money spent. Note that printing -mo munny- counts as money taken in. Then look at the data and see what years the debt cranked. It's simple to see that every war we've been part of has put us in the position we are today because paying off the previous exercises never happens before the next more expensive thanks to inflation war comes along. The paying off and taking care of our own people part is especially shirked by one group who bawl about "tax and spend" while borrowing and spending a hell of a lot more "out of necessity" of course. And now it's so bad that borrow-borrow-borrow is also "out of necessity" and what's going to be the new answer? So far the 'answer' is get more partisan and secure control, ie fight while the boat sinks instead of bailing, we even have billionaires paying others to drill more holes just to force the issue.

Are we paying more in interest on the debt than the national operating costs? Look to the ones who profit on that!

horseback

05-25-2011, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I have never been able to vote without showing who I am to match the rolls. Neither did I, until I moved to San Ysidro CA in 1986; when I inquired about that first time, the elderly lady behind the folding table explained to me that California didn't require people to produce an ID or even so much as say, an electric bill, because (and she said it with an absolutely straight face) it would have a 'chilling effect' on some minorities.

That changed (somewhat) after 2000, but the California registration system is still criminally slipshod and easily gamed. I will point out that it was the Democrats who were always in the forefront of opposition to ID or proof of citizenship requirements for voter registration, and not just in California.

I would like to see a national voter registration system based on voters' SSNs and a federal standard requiring voters to produce an accepted form of identification before they are allowed to enter the polls.

By the way, B5, I wrote about my personal experiences and observations. I don't need Fox to tell me that my buddies overseas got thir absentee ballots after the election and I didn't need the National Review to tell me that my polling place's neutrality was being illegally violated six ways from Sunday. I was there; I saw and heard it myself.

I'm done here; you guys can go back to congratulating each other for being open minded and progressive.

cheers

horseback

Ba5tard5word

05-25-2011, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by horseback:
By the way, B5, I wrote about my personal experiences and observations.

In the form of a rant couched in reheated talking points leftover from Fox's Greatest Hits, 2002-2008 Edition about the "Democrat Party" and this and that and the other. What happened to the mods locking down on political discourse? Any time anything vaguely political gets brought up, the Fox Boys come out and post a bunch of the typical "Repub Party" propaganda. If we wanted to read that kind of stuff we'd head over to Free Republic for some chuckles.

And for the record, I like the fact that it's so easy to vote in California, that is the way it should be. You give them your name, they show you your name and address on the rolls, and you sign your name. It's bad enough that it's easier to buy a gun in the US than to sign up for a library card or to get a driver's license, the least we can do is make it easier for people to participate in democracy.

The GOP wants to make it harder for people to vote because they know that most people, especially minorities and young people, are starting to wake up to their toxic and outdated politics that went out of style in the Gilded Age. Make it more difficult and you make it easier for people to have an excuse to not go and vote, while the GOP can continue to be kept afloat by their supporters who get whipped into a frenzy by Hannity and Beck and Co and who can be relied to go out and vote to give their rights and money away to corporations.

There, that was fun. I need a cigarette now.

Bearcat99

05-25-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
There, that was fun. I need a cigarette now.

Have a beer as well.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Cajun76

05-25-2011, 05:48 PM

Well BC, you attack Fox for behaving like the most of the media during Bush, and Gunz attacks talk radio and drops some Nazi reference, and yet I'm one of those referred to as "you and people who think like you" in a post talking about how I should open my eyes.

Sure, your latest post was more even handed, but I was responding to posts like this:

BC posted:
They will mention opposing views .... but then they spend so much time restating their traditional views non stop so as to paraphrase it it would be something like... "This is the Joe Scho from the other side .. what do you think Joe..." Then Joe states his case.. for about 2 minutes and then they spend the next 58 minutes (well ok take off time for the commercials..) stating why his view is not only wrong but extremely dangerous and leading the country straight to Marxist,socialist,communist,Muslim Soros inspired slavery.

While I disagree with your characterization, at least different views are seen on Fox. On most liberal networks, the "conservative" view is served with heaping scorn and/or cynicism, and is never fairly presented or discussed. There's no semblance of debate in the MSM.

@B5: A topic is not "political" until there's an opposing view, which always comes as a shock to the (faux)-liberal minded. Many "non-political" topics around here are faux-liberal cheerleading threads like this one, and people like you complain if anyone dares to offer a different perspective.

B5 posted:
It's bad enough that it's easier to buy a gun in the US than to sign up for a library card or to get a driver's license,

Last I checked, driving and library cards weren't part of our bill of rights. What other rights do you think are bad?

ImMoreBetter

05-25-2011, 05:58 PM

I love reading these topics...

Mostly because I know that one single slip of the keyboard, one un-leashed phrase, could send this to 20 pages. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ba5tard5word

05-25-2011, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Cajun76:

@B5: A topic is not "political" until there's an opposing view, which always comes as a shock to the (faux)-liberal minded. Many "non-political" topics around here are faux-liberal cheerleading threads like this one, and people like you complain if anyone dares to offer a different perspective.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KgIqQvYUs3I/TQNW2nKDR_I/AAAAAAAAceU/bsOw2Y4QeEc/s1600/meh-cat.jpg

DrHerb

05-25-2011, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:
I love reading these topics...

Mostly because I know that one single slip of the keyboard, one un-leashed phrase, could send this to 20 pages. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Except this one is gonna get locked real soon methinks.

Cajun76

05-25-2011, 06:40 PM

Lolz cats and other pics are about the most coherent argument some make when they run out of talking points. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz

05-25-2011, 08:55 PM

M_Gunz

05-25-2011, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Cajun76:
Last I checked, driving and library cards weren't part of our bill of rights. What other rights do you think are bad?

Because there is no such thing as a right to drive or a right to a library card?

When I see "liberal media" reporting on some right-wing personality screwup, I check the source. And sometimes they do take it beyond reason in a serious way, like the campaign funding laws changes where go ahead and try to set up a PAC that can do what the most actually-left-wing faces say, and you can't.

But here's a problem. To the right wing there is "good media" that agrees and backs up everything right wing approved and the rest are all the "liberal media". So I got to see KATIE COURIC denounced as a LIBERAL for asking Sarah "DUH" Palin actual unscripted questions and repeating them. Bad, bad Katie! You didn't make the ditz bimbo look good! You is LIBERAL!

Funny thing though. Since the election a lot of my right wing relatives don't much like Sarah or Glenn any more. Why now and not before? Because now their 'approval' is wearing off.

From the Firesign Theater about 40 years ago:
## "Why did the short hair cross the road?"
&& "I don't know, why?"
## "Because someone told him to."
## "Why did the long hair cross the road?"
&& "Because someone told him not to?"
## "Oh, you've heard it before."

Messaschnitzel

05-26-2011, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by horseback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I have never been able to vote without showing who I am to match the rolls. Neither did I, until I moved to San Ysidro CA in 1986; when I inquired about that first time, the elderly lady behind the folding table explained to me that California didn't require people to produce an ID or even so much as say, an electric bill, because (and she said it with an absolutely straight face) it would have a 'chilling effect' on some minorities.

That changed (somewhat) after 2000, but the California registration system is still criminally slipshod and easily gamed. I will point out that it was the Democrats who were always in the forefront of opposition to ID or proof of citizenship requirements for voter registration, and not just in California.

I would like to see a national voter registration system based on voters' SSNs and a federal standard requiring voters to produce an accepted form of identification before they are allowed to enter the polls. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When my wife and I go to vote, all the folks there in charge have to ID you with is a clipboard with badly handwritten names and addresses on the paper which they'll sometimes struggle to interpret the chickenscratch. When we state our names, they'll fumble down the list and finally find them and usually find that our names are misspelled or our addresses wrong. After they're satisfied that they have the right folks they'll hand us our ballots. Maybe California should use the 'inked finger' method of voter ID like they use in Afghanistan. It'd be a lot more effective to do that than have somebody tediously handwrite pages of potentially mispelled names and erroneous information. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Every time after they tentatively ID us, we'll take out our ID afterwards and show them we're who we are whether they like it or not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Bearcat99

05-26-2011, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Cajun76:
Well BC, you attack Fox for behaving like the most of the media during Bush, and Gunz attacks talk radio and drops some Nazi reference, and yet I'm one of those referred to as "you and people who think like you" in a post talking about how I should open my eyes.

Sure, your latest post was more even handed, but I was responding to posts like this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BC posted:
They will mention opposing views .... but then they spend so much time restating their traditional views non stop so as to paraphrase it it would be something like... "This is the Joe Scho from the other side .. what do you think Joe..." Then Joe states his case.. for about 2 minutes and then they spend the next 58 minutes (well ok take off time for the commercials..) stating why his view is not only wrong but extremely dangerous and leading the country straight to Marxist,socialist,communist,Muslim Soros inspired slavery.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off if you are going to quote me quote me all the way.. quote the complete thought..

The problem with you and people who think like you do is that when you folks say things like "the Big Lie Machine " it becomes quite clear that you are only seeing half the picture because you keep seeing the big "liberal" lie machine, when in truth the lie machine has elements on both sides of the political spectrum, yet you want to only see one side of it.

What I said about Fox being "fair and balanced" is true.... and the only reason why I take issue with Fox in particular is because they are the ONLY ones going on beating their chests about being "fair and balanced" and "You will only hear this here!!" as if they are some bastion of truth and journalistic integrity when in truth they are just as biased and part of the machine as the networks focused on the other spectrum. We have these networks like this because the views of the people cover these spectrums and entities are needed in place to feed those views so that the people can continually be whipped up in a frenzy .. divide and conquer.. business as usual. During the Bush years it was Fox's silence that was more deafening.. when truth be told there was a LOT to be alarmed about policy wise during the Bush years from the two underfunded wars we have, to the tax cuts that we can't pay for ... but the GOP would rather cut "entitlements" like SS & Medicare, to the Patriot act (which would not have been possible had it not been for the Omnibus Crime Bill passed under Clinton.. see how this works.. Good cop.. Bad cop.. while the people continue to get the brown end of the stick ... and THAT is my biggest beef with the entire process, that and the fact that NONE of the networks will touch that issue with a ten foot pole).

Mind you.. I listen to Fox every day... My wife is a fan.. in fact I can see our lawn next year with an Obama banner on one side and a whoever the GOP gets to run banner on the other side.. It makes for interesting debate over the dinner table.. That is why when I say that Greta is the best thing they have.. I can speak as someone who's opinion is based on the facts as I see them.. O'Riely, Hannity? Inflammatory jerks. Beck? I have come to the conclusion that Beck is like a steak.. you have to take the meat and leave the bone & grissle on the plate.. some days the ratio of bone & grissle to meat is higher than others.. but there is always bone & grissle.