Rainbow Six Patriots- New Cover Mechanics

[shobhit7777777]

It is obvious from the prototype video that there is a new cover mechanic in place, which although retains the Vegas 1-3rd person switch, maintains real life vision cones without the God mode Over the shoulder view. A few pictures to elaborate.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VW2BXCLVZhg/TroWi7WRdKI/AAAAAAAAAIg/ySjDajZ3-Hs/s912/R6Cover1.JPG

You can see that the player is unable to see beyond the cover. A more realistic and natural FOV.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Uzaubdk-4xo/TroWjdMbHEI/AAAAAAAAAIc/6o8TyPLCq4c/s912/R6Cover2.JPG

The character peeks up and ONLY then does he get a full view of the bridge below

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rlbdXXk_2R0/TroWi2iVB4I/AAAAAAAAAIY/87UUUtDLfPg/s640/R6Cover3.JPG

Here we see the character again in cover but again with a more natural and realistic FOV.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OOvbLygbOUo/TroWj_AUa8I/AAAAAAAAAIs/D846E_jCF3M/s640/R6Cover4.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WYteQ3qplcI/TroWkWyeUMI/AAAAAAAAAIw/1KDu3LH7SGs/s720/R6Cover5.JPG

I think the red area indicates a vulnerable zone where the player might get hit by incoming fire.

I think that this cover system, on account of being more natural and realistic is a great improvement over the existing one and I hope that this makes it into the final game.
I repeat STICK WITH THIS COVER SYSTEM.

Please share your thoughts/opinions

NOTE: There were some problems with the pics...have re-uploaded them. Do let me know if they are not visible. Thanks.

[jmcorp]

I agree the cover system looks good as it is, but just so you know. your images are not showing up...

[Dieinthedark]

Yeah, I like that it still switches to 3rd person but the fact that it doesn't force you to look over/around is a big plus. The only possible suggestion for me would be to incorporate a bit of GRAW2 for me. A little pressure on LT would make you stick your head out/up a bit, basically peaking over/around cover. That way you can look without full out blowing yourself with "Hey let's see if there's guys here." *Swing around cover, "Yep" *gets shot* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Just a peak and everything's ok. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[Soulid_Snake]

Originally posted by Dieinthedark:
Yeah, I like that it still switches to 3rd person but the fact that it doesn't force you to look over/around is a big plus. The only possible suggestion for me would be to incorporate a bit of GRAW2 for me. A little pressure on LT would make you stick your head out/up a bit, basically peaking over/around cover. That way you can look without full out blowing yourself with "Hey let's see if there's guys here." *Swing around cover, "Yep" *gets shot* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Just a peak and everything's ok. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


That sounds cool and very fair! I like these kind of controls very Metal-Gear-esque. Far Cry 3 cover system looks really good from 5:40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGSSrp49uc

I'm guessing blindfiring is gonna get scrapped. But, if they do keep it, the camera angle at least shouldn't give you the option to see around the corner when sticking out your gun. Then it truly would be blindfiring because you don't know what your aiming it's pure pot luck.

[shobhit7777777]

@Jmcorp

I agree the cover system looks good as it is, but just so you know. your images are not showing up...

I'll try to fix that. Are the pics visible to everyone?

@Dieinthedark

Haven't played GRAW..but a peek option would be nice...infact in the first screenshot, you can see the character raise his head as if peeking..maybe have variable lean as in Raven Shield?

[RarelessAltima]

I don't think the in game cover will work like this, it's just a concept video.

We'll have to wait until E3 '12 to get a good idea of the mechanics.

Among other things I think what you can take from the trailer is that there will be more than one squad.

[jmcorp]

images showing up just fine now, yep agree wholeheartedly about the cover system, hopefully they replicate it exactly as shown in the target video demo because it really does look good and as you point out the FOV is pretty narrow and realistic when in cover, you have to poke your head above and around cover in order to see more of your surroundings and this is how it should be.

Obviously, a peek mechanic would be great too

[shobhit7777777]

@RarelessAltima

Among other things I think what you can take from the trailer is that there will be more than one squad.

That'd be great.

I'm hoping for a simple OGR style team switching mechanic. Where you can switch between the '6' (leader) of 2 teams on the fly. So you can assign one team on a window breach while your active team breaches the door. So you have 2 Playable characters commanding 2 NPCs each.
When inactive the team would revert to ROE Set by you as the commander with a seperate interface to allow giving command for breaching etc.

@jmcorp


images showing up just fine now

Great. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Perseus_AWC]

UGH! No way! no out of body experiences! If you have to add this at least be like RO2 and give me the option of using it or not!

[Spades17]

I think that the game would be better with first person cover (maybe) and lean. Part of the fun of these tactical fps is being at the same disadvantages of your enemy and I don't mean technology wise but when it comes to abilities.

In CQC firefights things can get crazy. Not knowing whether the person you were just shooting at a second ago either moved up, retreated, or is just aiming at where your gonna pop you head out is absolutely terrifying.

IMO this cover system made the game look too easy and the dumb AI running around the place along with the regen health doesn't help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[DanHibikiFanXM]

Originally posted by Spades17:
I think that the game would be better with first person cover (maybe) and lean. Part of the fun of these tactical fps is being at the same disadvantages of your enemy and I don't mean technology wise but when it comes to abilities.

In CQC firefights things can get crazy. Not knowing whether the person you were just shooting at a second ago either moved up, retreated, or is just aiming at where your gonna pop you head out is absolutely terrifying.

IMO this cover system made the game look too easy and the dumb AI running around the place along with the regen health doesn't help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Indeed. I'm also not digging the x-ray vision without any sort of optics. That was one of the things that really bugged me about the Vegas games. You could still use thermal and night vision with your plain bare eyes. Guess Rainbow turns their operators into cyborgs or something.

[shobhit7777777]

@Spades17

In CQC firefights things can get crazy. Not knowing whether the person you were just shooting at a second ago either moved up, retreated, or is just aiming at where your gonna pop you head out is absolutely terrifying.

IMO this cover system made the game look too easy and the dumb AI running around the place along with the regen health doesn't help.

Actually this cover system rectifies the 'God vision' inherent in 3rd person cover systems AND yet provides a realistic FOV, maintaining peripheral vision and spatial awareness. You can see around you, but can't see over or around the cover without peeking.

@Danhibiki

That was one of the things that really bugged me about the Vegas games. You could still use thermal and night vision with your plain bare eyes

Eh?
They have NVGs on their helmets and you see them flip them down whenever you use the vision modes..the AI in fact automatically flips on Thermal whenever there is smoke.

[DanHibikiFanXM]

^ Nope, in Vegas 2 and multiplayer that's not the case. If your Bishop/Elite doesn't have the standard helmet or the little stand alone optics then he/she magically has thermal/night vision eyes.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Nice shots there Shobhit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The only thing I'm a little fuzzy on is the last one. Couldn't say for certain what the red and white meant exactly, or why you can see the next vehicle. Perhaps red is as you say, and the white is like the operatives 'memory' of the next good cover. hmm...

[Jomarip]

I agree, I feel this is a reasonable way of creating a cover system that reflects back cover and crouching.




@Spades17


Actually this cover system rectifies the 'God vision' inherent in 3rd person cover systems AND yet provides a realistic FOV, maintaining peripheral vision and spatial awareness. You can see around you, but can't see over or around the cover without peeking.

@Danhibiki


Eh?
They have NVGs on their helmets and you see them flip them down whenever you use the vision modes..the AI in fact automatically flips on Thermal whenever there is smoke.

[rogue_hart]

I'm of the opinion most people who dislike first person shooters over 3rd person shooter play fps with a low field of view or low resolution on a tv. If the field of view was widened they might prefer fps. FPS would sell a lot more on console just with a wider field of view.

Thing I don't like about the 3rd person is:
- The character takes up screen space.
- I'm not viewing down the barrel so I don't believe it's a shooter.
- No reason to have 3rd person view when I can't see round corners.
- In a fps If i can see the enemy I can be shot, in a tps knowing when I'll be shot is messy because there's no precision.
- The holographic markings look awful.

[doogsy91]

The system from the concept vid is perfect. Whether you like it not, there's going to be a third-person cover system and if it makes it in a similar form to this, it will be a big achievement over Vegas. And third person provides a much more realistic FOV which is probably why GR has stuck with it for so long and why I prefer it. I also hope Patriots features the shaking camera when under heavy fire like in GRFS.

[Pest_AWC]

And third person provides a much more realistic FOV which is probably why GR has stuck with it for so long and why I prefer it. .

Please explain how 3rd person view is more realistic than 1st.

I just walked around my back yard and couldn't get 3rd person view to work. Perhaps I need to be patched. I wanted to see over my neighbor's fence without being seen.

[Dcopymope]

Please explain how 3rd person view is more realistic than 1st.

I just walked around my back yard and couldn't get 3rd person view to work. Perhaps I need to be patched. I wanted to see over my neighbor's fence without being seen.

Haha, perhaps Mr. doogsy thinks he is the video game character in the real world. He probably needs to get his head checked. From my view, this whole issue about the cover system and a lot of other sh!tty things we know about the gameplay features of Patriots can be remedied by making it all optional, as many have suggested. We know they aren't going to take any of it out, so they can at least do what they did in previous Ghost Recon games where you can choose between third or first person view.

[doogsy91]

Please explain how 3rd person view is more realistic than 1st.

I just walked around my back yard and couldn't get 3rd person view to work. Perhaps I need to be patched. I wanted to see over my neighbor's fence without being seen.

I meant laterally. Because a screen is obviously only so wide, pulling the camera out from where the character's eyes are gives you a much wider lateral field of view and is therefor more realistic in that sense. I think it works better than first person view in a game like GR where typically you'd by constantly scanning wide open environments for movement. Better that is, except when in cover. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge critic of the view you get in the GRAW and especially in the Vegas cover systems but this looks perfect to me. I remember suggesting this exact concept in the GRAW forums years ago. Maybe they do actually read the boards:eek:????

[Dieinthedark]

I'm not going to argue that TPS is more accurate or a third person view is more realistic because its not. I do think however that a TP game tends to allow the player to become more connected with the character if you actually see the whole character model. And to me, that's okay. Your in FP for part of it because its realistic. The TP parts to me just are like yeah, this is an actual character not just a floating gun, and awww don't you care about them! (i'm joking there guys but you get my point)

[shobhit7777777]

I like TPV as I like to see the detailed character and it allows me to see the various animations. Plus it lends a cinematic feel to the game. From a gameplay perspective...TPV affords realistic peripheral vision. Arma 2..a MILSIM offers a TPV and gives the exact same reason. Cover based TPV is an entirely different matter.


What concerns me is that most discussion on this forum is about irrelevant nit-picks like TPV and regen health...what about the core tactical gameplay? Its just MP! MP! and more MP! here.


I couldn't careless if my character has a Over-the-Crotch view...as long as I'm presented with a fun and challenging tactical puzzle.

[Splinter_Cel575]

RAinBow 6 PAtriots=Very suck
We need Vegas 3

[Dieinthedark]

^Uhh....no

[shobhit7777777]

RAinBow 6 PAtriots=Very suck
We need Vegas 3
i agre wit u an vegas was awsome an logan kill terrorsts an taleeban an is doesnt afraid of anything.

Vegas was great. But it could do with a LOT of improvements. Patriots was better.

[Jomarip]

If this is how cover works, this is going to be awesome. The ability to see through objects.... not so much. But the actual elimination of the look around corners via third person is a technological achievement.

[shobhit7777777]

Didn't GRAW on the consoles have the exact same system where you had to peek out to see beyond the wall? Why did they go back from it?

[doogsy91]

Can't remember if GRAW had it but GRAW 2 single player definitely had a first person option which required you to peak over/around cover to see past it. It's a shame it wasn't the case for the third person view too because I didn't find playing that game in first person very satisfying.

[SolidSage]

@Shobhit
Good images. Your description of mechanical operation does sound like an improvement on the TP cover system that has been a perpetual part of Rainbow. I think the Red does signify a danger zone.

TPvsFP : Basically the view allows for a definition between a game and a simulator. I don't really enjoy simulators, but I do enjoy games. Rainbow is the only staple FP that I play, and that has a little to do with that TP cover function.

[shobhit7777777]

@Shobhit
Good images. Your description of mechanical operation does sound like an improvement on the TP cover system that has been a perpetual part of Rainbow. I think the Red does signify a danger zone.

TPvsFP : Basically the view allows for a definition between a game and a simulator. I don't really enjoy simulators, but I do enjoy games. Rainbow is the only staple FP that I play, and that has a little to do with that TP cover function.

Thanks.

I like TPS because it adds physicality to the actions I am doing and is better at allowing me to connect with the character. The cover animations in the target video looked sooooo good. In one of the interviews they mentioned that the were taking a new look at animations to provide a hyper real feel of moving through combat.

[Dirtymurph]

I like the controls better in an FPS. If a TP game is done right it can draw me in but these days they simply put too much nonsense in the games and having TPV on top of that makes it worse. I used to play a lot of Socom and its been the only third person game I wanted to be competitive in. Mostly because its you and your gun, no kill streaks or UAV. If you wanted to win in Socom you had to communicate, otherwise winning was just luck. The majority of players are going to do what they find easiest, which will be camping behind cover with a full field of view and god knows what else. If it was just somebody sitting behind cover it wouldnt be that bad but with all these UAV type devices and seeing through walls it will be probably. Time will tell.

[sameer_monier]

well from the looks of it, it seems the cover system doesn't have a god view, so it will require you peeking, also the camera seems to be set close to the player, making (me) more connection to the character.

I do agree though, I don't want kill streaks, asset points, assist actions, defense action, assault actions, power ups, or any of those things.

[shobhit7777777]

well from the looks of it, it seems the cover system doesn't have a god view, so it will require you peeking, also the camera seems to be set close to the player, making (me) more connection to the character.

I do agree though, I don't want kill streaks, asset points, assist actions, defense action, assault actions, power ups, or any of those things.

This

As much as I like the COD-esque RPG lite XP mechanics.....I am tired of it, tired of seeing +100 pop up whenever I shoot someone...tired of unlocking guns.

@Jazz

Nice Sig dude! The best you've had