Where is the PC patch?

[scottz63]

Where is it at???

[hondekop888]

it won't be long, lol

[scottz63]

Originally posted by hondekop888:
it won't be long, lol

I think Iv'e heard that here before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[MChat]

Originally posted by scottz63:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hondekop888:
it won't be long, lol

I think Iv'e heard that here before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask yourself this: Which would you prefer, the development team to just "throw the patch over the wall" and have it potentially introduce new bugs, or have it thoroughly tested before being released?

Somethings just take awhile, and you just can't throw resources at it to make it faster. e.g. It takes a woman 9 months to have a baby but having 9 women doesn't mean that together they can have a baby in 1 month.

[IceT-Bag]

Magic Eight Ball says <span class="ev_code_RED">April 14th</span> 2009. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RealSnakeDiver]

Originally posted by MChat:
Ask yourself this: Which would you prefer, the development team to just "throw the patch over the wall" and have it potentially introduce new bugs, or have it thoroughly tested before being released?

I think that's the argument each time and each patch something new is introduced (as with any patch).

And each time that argument is made, the same old: "Why would they start now" argument pops up. For the most part, it's still valid.


Originally posted by MChat:
Somethings just take awhile, and you just can't throw resources at it to make it faster.

Actually you can. There is a formula based on workloads and guestimates that allows you to determine the optimal number of developers on a project. I think UbiSoft is just short of optimal, where they sit at 0 developers working on the next patch.

To the point: UbiSoft is ignoring their customers (again) and are trying to (quietly) jump ship on Far Cry 2 and make more money on another project.

I dunno how these developers can sleep at night. I like to build programs quick, but I can't stand releasing a program that I know has significant flaws which I know could be fixed. Timelines are always a factor, but I always manage to find a way to get the majority of bug fixes done before a release.

Moderator locks topic in 5..4..3..2..

.. or is it delete this time?

Cheers,

[AWC_Pest]

Originally posted by IceT-Bag:
Magic Eight Ball says <span class="ev_code_RED">April 14th</span> 2009. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wow! It was released a month ago? Did it fix everything? Does Hardcore mode still work after one round?

[SoulFallen]

Originally posted by AWC_Pest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IceT-Bag:
Magic Eight Ball says <span class="ev_code_RED">April 14th</span> 2009. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wow! It was released a month ago? Did it fix everything? Does Hardcore mode still work after one round? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.....It wasn't... -_-

[MChat]

Originally posted by RealSnakeDiver:
I dunno how these developers can sleep at night. I like to build programs quick, but I can't stand releasing a program that I know has significant flaws which I know could be fixed. Timelines are always a factor, but I always manage to find a way to get the majority of bug fixes done before a release.

You sound like you might be a developer yourself, or is it just a hobby? If you're a professional developer then you should know it's not the developers who get to determine what gets worked on, or what bugs are fixed or features added to the next release (patch).

[RealSnakeDiver]

Oh I know. A lot of time it's prioritized by someone else (BA, Project Manager, etc).

I am a developer, not games but applications. In the past when I've worked, I'd be assigned a bunch of bug tickets (reported from clients or UAT) and you'd do what you could.

Though in my application testing, before I'd even release it to UAT I'd be testing it thoroughly myself to make sure that there were no bugs. Which is basically what I'm talking about: the obvious bugs.

When you write a chunk of code and compile and load to make sure it works, and a really glaring bug appears in front of you.. do you really say "Oh, UAT will catch it and report it.. and if not I won't mention it" or do you sit down and fix the bug? That's all I mean.

[MChat]

Originally posted by RealSnakeDiver:
Oh I know. A lot of time it's prioritized by someone else (BA, Project Manager, etc).

I am a developer, not games but applications. In the past when I've worked, I'd be assigned a bunch of bug tickets (reported from clients or UAT) and you'd do what you could.

Though in my application testing, before I'd even release it to UAT I'd be testing it thoroughly myself to make sure that there were no bugs. Which is basically what I'm talking about: the obvious bugs.

When you write a chunk of code and compile and load to make sure it works, and a really glaring bug appears in front of you.. do you really say "Oh, UAT will catch it and report it.. and if not I won't mention it" or do you sit down and fix the bug? That's all I mean.

I'm a business applications developer myself (C#/.Net), but I did get a chance to work on a 3D "game like" application and I learned ALOT about the game industry (but still only the tip of the iceburg I'm sure) from the contractor we hired to do the DirectX 3D Pipeline work. And the bottom line is it is a entirely different environment from the business world.

Typically in the business world you're writing high level code against a framework which "hides" what's going on under the covers. Very, very rarely will you ever work at a low level dealing with API's which make direct hardware calls. And if you do, the hardware is pretty much always defined before hand.

The game world is entirely different in that these types of calls are going on all of the time, and what works and looks good on your development machine may or may not work on the machine in the cube next to you, or down the hall. You think QA cycles are a PITA in the business world, how would you like having to have your code tested against hundreds of possible hardware configurations.

I got a taste of this with the project I was working on. I don't know if Ubi does it's own hardware QA or not, but there are companies with huge labs out there dedicated to testing software (typically games) on a variety of hardware platforms. If there's a market for such a company to exist, then you gotta KNOW that game testing is not as straight forward as apps testing in the business world.

That's probably the number one reason games are developed first for consoles, then ported to PC.

[Agent00Kevin]

Great post, Ive been pretty much singing that song since I came here. I am studying C# C++ and XNA Game studio. Developing even the simplest game is difficult at first, and many people may find it utterly impossible to do something like that. Even something as simple as creating a map in the FC2 map editor is not easy, and all you have to do is put some stuff down where you want it. Every single map has a flaw when first relesed, and thats how it is. Theres always something that could have been done better.

The same goes for writing a whole friggin game only on a MUCH larger scale. It is a very complicated task and some things work on some PCs while they fail miserably on others. With all the hardware configurations out there, it'd be impossible to make sure a game would play on EVERY PC. Add in the drivers and other programs, and, well, you have quite a mess.

So, before rushing Ubi to get us our patch, think for just a moment. Rushing to get this game out is most likely the reason behind the technical problems behind the game. (Im fine, rarely have issues) So, why in the world would we rush the patch too? Let them figure it out right, without the same pressure that made us need the patch in the first place.

[Misnomer01]

My only hope is that it won't take a full week or two to get the patch to Steam. Would be nice if we could play with the big rush of people that might come back to try the patch.

[Shadyhot27]

Good point Misnomer, I don't have the Steam version but that makes alot of sense to be a part of the initial pipeline burst of players.

[curtmantle]

I'm also a pro developer. I am currently writing business apps in C#, but have in the past developed graphical applications (but not games) in C++/OpenGL, and totally agree with MChat and Agent00Kevin.

As developers we all know that the greater the amount of user interaction, the easier it is for bugs to appear. In a business app this is relatively limited, but it can still deliver a curve ball when the user interacts with the app in an unexpected way. Modern games have an almost infinite number of user interaction possibilities, and it's impossible to recreate them all in UAT, or developer testing.

As for the comment on "throw more resources" - in practice it doesn't work in the short term. Even in a tightly designed application, extra resources will actually slow development down for a while until they get up to speed.

I admire games developers, they write immensely complicated code which is hard to design, code and debug. I couldn't do it and I've been at this profession for over a decade.

[thafuriousone]

Most of these kids think making a game is all about putting in numbers and letters using notepad and if there is a bug or a change needed to be done then they think all the devs need to do is delete or ad a line of "code" (numbers and letters).

If this was the case then every joe blow could make a video game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. To all you guys with the ignorant statements like "come on dude just delete a line of code and fix the game" or "wow your game code is all screwed up, let me have it and ill fix it in a day man", i would seriously love to see you even try to attempt creating a game or even a simple program.

[matty101yttam]

A games like a deck of cards...one bit of code built on another upon another, sometimes even when you find the problem you still have to figure out how to get it out without the whole thing collapsing.

[chinthu86]

Well, I think Microsoft and Sony forced ubi to release updates for their consoles as soon as possible. But, who's gonna speak on behalf of us PC gamers ? So, I wouldn't expect them to release the pc update anytime soon. <span class="ev_code_RED">EDIT - Content removed, racism (intended or not) is not permitted on these boards</span>

[rcole_sooner]

I think all software is like a house of cards. We do the best we can, but hind sight is always 20/20. I look at software I've written and I think "what was I thinking". Every patch I put out I think "man, this will fix the users problems", but more always show up. Pretty normal part of software development.

The PC patch will be here. I do find it odd that it was not first, but it does follow the trend of console first then PC. It may be to ensure the fixes address the console issues, as I would "assume" that the PC API is much more flexible.

[curtmantle]

I would imagine at least 90% of the code will be shared between the three formats. Each format will have it's own thin graphical layer, and presumably a network layer (I understand the former, know nothing about the latter).

I'd expect the console versions first merely because the developers know what they're up against and can test it against a single hardware setup, which isn't the case with the PC.

[hondekop888]

Originally posted by curtmantle:
I would imagine at least 90% of the code will be shared between the three formats. Each format will have it's own thin graphical layer, and presumably a network layer (I understand the former, know nothing about the latter).

I'd expect the console versions first merely because the developers know what they're up against and can test it against A SINGLE HARDWARE SETUP, WICH ISN'T THE CASE WITH THE PC.

Never thought of that, but it must create a sh1tload of problems indeed.

[scottz63]

Where is it allready??? I want to play this weekend.

[hondekop888]

I will probably take another few months.

[scottz63]

Originally posted by hondekop888:
I will probably take another few months.

Probably!