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PhilosopherCop
03-12-2005, 04:39 PM
In terms of an algorithm causing havoc around the world like we see in SCCT?

PhilosopherCop
03-12-2005, 04:39 PM
In terms of an algorithm causing havoc around the world like we see in SCCT?

cellfan88
03-12-2005, 04:46 PM
It's possible. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Havoc0fisher
03-12-2005, 06:04 PM
Causing me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif =D-jk

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif

daranz
03-12-2005, 06:11 PM
Most of viruses and hacker stories in movies and games like SC:CT are full of bull feces... It's virtually impossible to make an algorithm that would be able to break any computer. And besides that, have you ever heard of a virus shutting down a power plant?

GZA-LiquidSword
03-12-2005, 06:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daranz:
Most of viruses and hacker stories in movies and games like SC:CT are full of bull feces... It's virtually impossible to make an algorithm that would be able to break any computer. And besides that, have you ever heard of a virus shutting down a power plant? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course you dont hear about it, because Sam's always there to stop it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I dont know how much fact there is to this story, but I am one of those people that believes oh so many things happen as far as our government and military that nobody knows about. Im sure there are lots of threats that were avoided by organizations we dont even know about probably similar to what Sam does.

As far as if it's possible for a virus to do that....I have no idea.

ChaosTheory13
03-12-2005, 07:17 PM
this is what i like about sc story that make it better than most storys of other games.because it can actually happen.

psyichic
03-12-2005, 07:27 PM
True the algorithim part is unrealistic seeing as an algorith is normally used like an equation in a computer. Also its true a Power plant has no acces to its power stations open to the internet not to mention they will NEVER work with an outside source affecting them. PLus the realistic system of hi-jacking a missle is NOT POSSIBLE. They probably use 1056-bit encryption keys on those things and lets just say u better be able to afford a quantum computer (This is impossible seeing as they are a recent THEORY there is currently no working quantum computer anywhere.)

But thats just what I think

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Anything can happen.

Noone thought it was possible to hijack four US airplanes with box cutters, then fly them into not only two of the tallest buildings in NY, but the pentagon as well, but it happened.

Noone thought that another nation could fly over and bomb the US' ship harbor, but it happened. And noone thought a single bomb could stop a war, but when the US dropped "little boy" on Hiroshima as retaliation to the Pearl Harbor bombing it was shown that it could happen.

Noone thought that a single army could come so close to taking over the entire world, but when Germany brought Adolph Hitler to power we almost found out too late that it could happen. Just in case noone knows this but Hitler had taken over almost every country in the world, the only two MAJOR countries left to take were Great Britian and America...

Noone thinks these things can happen because they haven't happened yet, and that's just ignorance. Anything can happen, at any time, anywhere. People that say it can't happen are living in a world with their eyes close.

keeblerelfe
03-12-2005, 07:47 PM
I think that's kind of a vague link between world events and computer algorithms (and some of your WW2 conclusions seem a little separate from the facts,) but I'll bite, you have something of a point.

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 07:59 PM
I just stated those points because they sound like they could be fiction, or perhaps a video game story, when really they were all reality. I think any plot you make up could or has happened on some sort of scale. Maybe there aren't algorithms powerful or capable enough to do much damage today, but with more and more computers being used in day to day life I wouldn't rule out the idea that it could one day happen. We didn't have the atom bomb technology in WWI, but we did in WWII. Things change, and that's why you can't rule out the possibility of this scenario happening someday.

psyichic
03-12-2005, 08:26 PM
You see hard2exist those things that happened in WW2 were not things that no one thought could happen it was that no one ANTICITPATED them. Plus the idea is an algorithim is essentailly a computer run math problem. What we are talking about ehre is these people being able to hack into systems that are cut off from outside interference. And despite what Sci-Fi tells us it is IMPOSSIBLE to access a computer that is not DESIGEND to have remote access or is openly connected to an internet. Now im not trying to be mean but this is science fiction. And your points about the past are not all that well founded. Seeing as MANY people did anticipate those events. Its just that people did not expect it.

Oh and a nice little statement about A bomb tech in WW1 to be more exact we did have research in atomic energy we just hadnt proceeded to the point of calculating the exact mass and method to create a super critical mass of the correct element.

Now its fine to say that it is possible for soemthinbg to happen at some scale but this scenario needs SERIOUS fixing for it to go broadway. But its true that computers could in theory be used to cause an intelligence leak and then allow people to get their hands on certain things.

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh and a nice little statement about A bomb tech in WW1 to be more exact we did have research in atomic energy we just hadnt proceeded to the point of calculating the exact mass and method to create a super critical mass of the correct element. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have missed my point with that paragraph completly. We didn't have the technology for the A-bomb in WWI, but just a few years later we did. We might not be able to access a computer that isn't actively connected to the net, but with the way wireless access and technology is moving in a few years I'm sure it will be a reality.

People also thought a buggy without a horse couldn't just get up and move on it's own, and then the car came along. What's impossible one day, is common knowledge the next.

Pushicon
03-12-2005, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HardToExist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh and a nice little statement about A bomb tech in WW1 to be more exact we did have research in atomic energy we just hadnt proceeded to the point of calculating the exact mass and method to create a super critical mass of the correct element. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have missed my point with that paragraph completly. We didn't have the technology for the A-bomb in WWI, but just a few years later we did. We might not be able to access a computer that isn't actively connected to the net, but with the way wireless access and technology is moving in a few years I'm sure it will be a reality.

People also thought a buggy without a horse couldn't just get up and move on it's own, and then the car came along. What's impossible one day, is common knowledge the next. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are stupid and should probably shut up fyi

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pushicon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HardToExist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh and a nice little statement about A bomb tech in WW1 to be more exact we did have research in atomic energy we just hadnt proceeded to the point of calculating the exact mass and method to create a super critical mass of the correct element. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have missed my point with that paragraph completly. We didn't have the technology for the A-bomb in WWI, but just a few years later we did. We might not be able to access a computer that isn't actively connected to the net, but with the way wireless access and technology is moving in a few years I'm sure it will be a reality.

People also thought a buggy without a horse couldn't just get up and move on it's own, and then the car came along. What's impossible one day, is common knowledge the next. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are stupid and should probably shut up fyi <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you should refrain from posting such negative and insulting comments if you'd like to remain a member of this community...read the forum rules...

Ninja720
03-12-2005, 08:51 PM
If you saw The Matrix near the end before they save Morpheous

Trinity: Noone has ever done something like this before.
Neo: That is why it is going to work.

Apply those statements to events of today.

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ninja720:
If you saw _The Matrix_ near the end before they save Morpheous

Trinity: Noone has ever done something like this before.
Neo: That is why it is going to work.

Apply those statements to events of today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good point Ninja.

Jackal56o
03-12-2005, 08:57 PM
the threat of electronic warfare has been raging since the invention of the computer. If u read the random facts on SC1, they say that over 12 countries have tried to hack into the US communications uplink and all have fail or something like that.

daranz
03-12-2005, 09:02 PM
There's a difference between something being highly improbable and physically impossible.

It IS physically possible to have an army and dominate the world in 2 days, although it's highly improbable. It is physically possible to take down the entire internet, although it's hihgly improbable and would require a great effort and resources.
It's physically impossible to access a computer not connected to any sort of network. It is physically impossible to be able to design a virus able to defeat ANY computer and operating system that operates today.

HardToExist
03-12-2005, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daranz:
There's a difference between something being highly improbable and physically impossible.

It IS physically possible to have an army and dominate the world in 2 days, although it's highly improbable. It is physically possible to take down the entire internet, although it's hihgly improbable and would require a great effort and resources.
It's physically impossible to access a computer not connected to any sort of network. It is physically impossible to be able to design a virus able to defeat ANY computer and operating system that operates today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your statements are false. Anyone who has taken a Computer Information or even an introductory level Computer Defense college level class knows it's possible to create a virus that will disable ANY computer if not properly secured. And yes, you are right about the network, but I'm saying (and so have my professors) that ONE DAY it will be possible, someone will find a way to cause it to access the web from a remote location.

I'm gonna move on to something else now because some of you can't grasp this concept, and I'm tired of trying to get you to understand.

black ops freak
03-12-2005, 09:23 PM
seriously, I can see these events happening in the near future. Maybe not ALL of the events, but a lot of them are possible, and as for all you guys saying that we never ANTICIPATED all the stuff that HardToExist mentioned, we did, but in most cases we did nothing about it, which is exactly what we're doing with our militair's computers and databases. Our train-track switching mechanisms, our traffic lights, and some of our power plants are hooked up to the web, and it's only a matter of time before someone figures that out...

daranz
03-12-2005, 09:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HardToExist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daranz:
There's a difference between something being highly improbable and physically impossible.

It IS physically possible to have an army and dominate the world in 2 days, although it's highly improbable. It is physically possible to take down the entire internet, although it's hihgly improbable and would require a great effort and resources.
It's physically impossible to access a computer not connected to any sort of network. It is physically impossible to be able to design a virus able to defeat ANY computer and operating system that operates today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your statements are false. Anyone who has taken a Computer Information or even an introductory level Computer Defense college level class knows it's possible to create a virus that will disable ANY computer if not properly secured. And yes, you are right about the network, but I'm saying (and so have my professors) that ONE DAY it will be possible, someone will find a way to cause it to access the web from a remote location.

I'm gonna move on to something else now because some of you can't grasp this concept, and I'm tired of trying to get you to understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, uh, ok, you win. It is possible to write a virus to defeat any computer, but it's impossible to write a virus that'll defeat any computer. That's all I'm saying.

GZA-LiquidSword
03-12-2005, 09:32 PM
Although I dont agree with some of Hard2Exist's examples, you can not disagree with the idea that ANYTHING is possible.

Are you telling me that people in the early 1800s believed that a 150,000 pound piece of metal could someday fly at 500 miles an hour? Would it not seem impossible to them?

Would people in the 1700s believe that you could transfer your voice over hundreds of miles?

You have to REALLY think about it. The technology was NOT there at the time, you couldnt perceive it.

Therefore you can't say without doubt that hacking into a computer like that is impossible. You might just not know about the technology, or it might not be out yet. But I can say that almost ANYTHING is possible, only because I CAN'T say what will happen in the future.

spartan33
03-12-2005, 09:34 PM
It's possible that it could happen but we just wouldn't know that much intel that Lambert, Sam, and Grimm knows. We won't even know if 3rd Echelon even exists.

But that's what makes political espionage so interesting!

Pushicon
03-12-2005, 09:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HardToExist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daranz:
There's a difference between something being highly improbable and physically impossible.

It IS physically possible to have an army and dominate the world in 2 days, although it's highly improbable. It is physically possible to take down the entire internet, although it's hihgly improbable and would require a great effort and resources.
It's physically impossible to access a computer not connected to any sort of network. It is physically impossible to be able to design a virus able to defeat ANY computer and operating system that operates today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your statements are false. Anyone who has taken a Computer Information or even an introductory level Computer Defense college level class knows it's possible to create a virus that will disable ANY computer if not properly secured. And yes, you are right about the network, but I'm saying (and so have my professors) that ONE DAY it will be possible, someone will find a way to cause it to access the web from a remote location.

I'm gonna move on to something else now because some of you can't grasp this concept, and I'm tired of trying to get you to understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can i have some of that **** you're smoking because you must be really ****ed up to be posting that

f16cxv
03-12-2005, 09:50 PM
Philosipher, your back!!!!!!! I don't know much of the story...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif but it's SC, so yep, I think it could happen...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chaos.Advocate
03-12-2005, 10:19 PM
Why couldnt it happen. Think about it.

There have been computer viruses created that are capable of shutting down entire system networks. Even ones protected by the most state of the art security systems.

So then yep, it could be a reality. Its a reality now, in 2008? Even more reality. Because by 2010 were talking computers running a whole lotta stuff ^_^

germ1234
03-12-2005, 10:22 PM
what does the algorithem do anyways?

destroy the computer by exploding the hard drive?

HAKOMAFIA2004
03-13-2005, 04:43 AM
If that happens i am gonne be Sam Fisher http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S.a.S-Akbari
03-13-2005, 05:32 AM
I am a secret Agent Called AKBARI, and i have saved yah @rses from dozen of Treaths!, some peeps think its luck, but i think its CHAOS THEORY, ...... I am The Akbari , And i am..A splinter Cell

^^

collywog2004
03-13-2005, 05:34 AM
Algorithms are used in programming, so a program does something on it's own like calculating data, and outputing a value or something, like adding finances together, I think.

I believe that this could happen, as we get more dependent on computers and stuff, people are able to manipulate computers, using clever algorithmss, viruses and stuff, hacking is possible and stuff.

I love this since, you think that it could really happen.

Welcome back PC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

psyichic
03-13-2005, 07:22 AM
Large FYI on the thing about writing a virus that can defeat any computer. You better be programming it for mac/windows/linux/every other variation of Unix/ goverments computers that probably use a completely diffrent OS.

Oh and an algorithim is like collywog said more like a part of a program. It does not have anything malicious about it. Now an algorithim can be used to find lets say the mass of a planet or could be used to try and break a security lock using a force method (one that includes trying every possible combination)

Besides even though it is possible to have a virus shut down a computer you really wont have any affect on the world like mentioned. Beleive me when I say you will not be able to screw with systems that are running our world. The reasons why we do see things being taken down by viruses is that because the advantage of the virus writer is that they are able to stay one step ahead of the competition since they are able to see what all the security measures are and them work around that.

ANd the exlopding harddrive would be funny. But yea thats probably not going to happen becasue that is like saying that the code is so bad its frying everything around it.(wont happen becasue then the code would scramble itself and yea screwed up code doesnt work 2 well)

And the thing about wireless technology uhhhh not really lets just say. Unless that computer is PURPOSELY connected to the web through a wireless connection you wont be touching it.

collywog2004
03-13-2005, 07:58 AM
I've learnt a few algorithms in maths, like finding a shortest path for cables and stuff.

Actually I believe something like this could happen, as we get more dependent on computers, viruses become more serious and such, maybe starting off chain reactions in programs, setting code or something.

I've posted before but still, I'm sure it could happen, very unlikely but possible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

programsmth
03-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Re: Exploding hard-drives: I don't know what this has to do with SC3, but you could theoretically cause a computer to melt down via virus by turning off all of the fans and then overtaxing system resources... but, yeah, not gonna happen.


Re: Viruses: Computer security is like a lock. A dedicated criminal will be able to get past both no matter what, they act more as a deterrant.


Re: HardToExist: I agree completely. One of my favorite quotes is an IBM executive who, many, decades ago, predicted "a world market of maybe five computers." In that case, my bedroom alone consists of three-fifths of the world market. Point is, the future will always bring things you can't even conceive of now.

ScreaminEagle.
03-13-2005, 08:07 AM
you guys, the whole point of a Tom Clancy game is that it CAN happen!! First of all, this is the future we're talking about. Second of all, in this future Japan has interlinked it's entire defense system with automated computers, which enables the scenario. See? We're talking about JAPAN, at least i think, I don't really know the whole plot. But anyway, yeah, an algorithm CAN wreak havoc in the US. Maybe not fire a missile, but here for example:

I recently read a book in which an algorithm caused the stock market to crash miserably, disrupting the entire infrastructure of our country. Now, I'm not a pro at stocks, but I know a little, enough to know that there is a LOT of money changing hands at NYSE, like trillions and trillions of dollars. And, all that information is linked up to the internet, right? Now, imagine what would happen if someone simply decided to round all half-cents DOWN instead of UP? Just a tiny, tiny change like that that no one would notice? It adds up to BILLIONS of dollars unaccounted for!

GZA-LiquidSword
03-13-2005, 09:36 AM
Again, you guys seem to think you know what you're talking about but there's two things you need to realize: the game is already talking about the future AND you need to stop talking in terms of impossible or possible.

There are many points that you guys are just passing on and keep going on with your idea that it's impossible due to this or that. How can you say it is PHYSICALLY impossible to code a virus that can affect every OS. Is there any constraints saying that a virus can't do that? Im not pretending to know about viruses, but you really need to get out of your heads the idea that these things are impossible.

There is NO LIMIT saying that a virus CANT affect every computer. It is NOT impossible. The only things that are impossible is breaking our basic laws of physics. And even then...

JaiQwan
03-13-2005, 11:13 AM
"Hard2Exist's examples" brought up some very good points, and maybe not the best or the most valid. But none the less some very good point's that one day It just might be possible, no one can know or can tell what the future holds. And just because it can't be now and or today, there is a lot of what if's, and all we can do is speculate.

But never say it can't be or can't happen, History is full of nay sayers and it can't be done, or it will never happen or its impossible.
Just look back a few years when virus's were sent out and took down a mass amout of computers. Yes I know a Virus is not an algorithm, but what's to stop some nutcase from doing just that, take down the computer, so it can't do what its meant to do.

Hackers and those that create Virus's, well that is all they do is sit there and find ways to hack into anything they can. Remember back when the FBI Site along with the Whitehouse Site was hacked and brought down, but that is all they wanted to, just that.

And I think the best Example, is to look back and see just how Young the Computer age is, and how far it has expanded and how much it has grown, in such a short time. And now days look at how may computers are in a single Car and communicate with each other to help better controle that car.

Back in the 1970's Who would have thought that just about every home in the USA would have computers and connecting to internet. That was unheard of, If you would have said that in the next 15 to 20 years Computers will be comon place in almost every home. People would have laughed you right out the door, and called you a nutcase, and im sure there were plenty that said "thats never going to or could happen" and remember the Internet we all use today, came from the millitary, and they now have thier own version of the internet.

Anything could happen, and just about anything is possible, with todays tech, but who knows about tomorrow. And who would have thought that Bill Gates in his Garage building the first computer out of plywood, would sell an OS that is in 99% of every computer sold world wide. I bet if you said that back then, everyone would have laughed so hard they would have soiled them selfs.

Okay thats my .10 cents http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dre

psyichic
03-13-2005, 01:15 PM
Like someone said there is a realm of physics and possibility. I have stated that the story of SC couldnt happen because of some obvious issues concerning how computers work. Now Mind you I have yet to see a virus that is a cross system affecting virus. THis is becasue of the limits between systems. Examples of Windows XP leaving the DOS based computing world and entering a NTFS one. THeir is a LARGE diffrence here. Not to mention hexidecimal and binary codes will react diffrently on a mac and a windows computer. SO when you program a virus you MUST use a certain language and that language can only be understood by the program that was deisnged to run it. SO a program wirrten in one way for one computer if its put into another that computer might be unable to read it and thus the program wont be able to run. Also just remeber a program that is malicious is designed to do one thing or mabey multiple things. But its still a program that is sent out. Now to effectively crash every system you would need to find a way to have it effectively make each system shut down with its one command programed in. And if lets say one person decided to mess just a tad with their windwos program and alter it in a miniscule way it would become un affected by a part of the virus attempting to use that area of the computer.

Now for a reality part yes its possible for the stock market to get hacked. Is it likely? No and the issue is that as computers progress defenses become more and more complex. Then there becomes the issue of every encryption essentially being huge. That just adds a factor of time to the issue of breaking the key which is currently literally a few thousand years for a 64-bit key at the moment. THe only type of computer capable of processing info quick enough on that level is a quantum computer and terrorists will have a seriously hard time getting their hands on one(THey are about as big as a room because of the requirements of their freezing process and the need of lasers to produce quantum variables so they will not become as small as nowadays computers just because of the restraints of Physics on them)

Now I suppose it would be possible for someone to find a way around the encryption keys but as soon as someone discovers that the loophole will be found and repaired and from what I can tell it seems impossible. I might not know alot about them But I beleive that it uses a system of substitutions and the key is actually variables that are plugged into a very complex algorithim. And shutting down the whitehouses website to be honest is not really a security breach. It is possible to shut down sites and other such things connected to the WWW but the level of splintercell is saying that information that was not connected to the WWW was beign affected. And I will tell you right now physics will not allow you to connect to a computer that is not opened purpossely to the web. Wireless technology must use two things. A transmitter and receiver. You cannot affect a computer that is closed among itself. That would require you to manipulate the electrons flowing through its circuits. And the only way to do this is with some EMPs which would just screw up the computer. Now perhaps you want to say an EMP could do all this? Yes it might be able to but your problem is getting an EMP generator to a computer you want to mess with and ill just say they arent all that light.

The way a hacker or virus works is that it finds a loophole in the program it wants to mess with and exploits it. Once that loophole is fixed you have to look for another. And people might have said things are impossible in the past but people also said they were possible. We only tend to hear from who said its impsossible. An example of this was the WW2 Manhattan project. Hard2Exist said that people never thought that a bomb could end a war. Thats untrue. THats what scientists thought during the war. The people on that project realized this so they effectively said "Yes it is possible that one bomb could end a war" So they got in gear and began to work.

And yes there is a level of hacking that is possible but there are physical constraints on certain things. A more effective way of making a stock market crash was the way mentioned in Dan Browns Digital fortress. Terrorists set EMP bombs all over the new york stock exchange. That was a much better way of messing up the market. Im not doubting that things can be hacked. But there are things that physics pretty much say you cant hack. So im sure the story could happen but it would reauire much more of a physical effort. Like getting people to run to alot of power plants and shut them down then have someone steal launching codes from a base. And even though we are moving more and more itno a realm of computers I will personally slap the moron who deicdes to connect missle launch systems and power plant controls to the WWW. Also think about it do you think that you could actually hack someones automatic door? Did you guys ever wonder why THird Echelon sends spies to the field? LOL im sure if third echelon could hack into computers from an outside place they would but they cant so they send a few people to gain physical access to a computer.

PhilosopherCop
03-17-2005, 03:26 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4356661.stm

Woosy
03-17-2005, 05:03 AM
Anything is possible check out the blue sniper www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article106.php (http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article106.php) I rekon you will see sam take that voice mic and replace it with this bad boy lol!