Resist charge ability

[Yur_Ko]

Going through the Haven and Necros creatures I noticed that squire/knight and zombie both have 'Resist charge' ability. How could it ever be realistic I don't know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

AFAIK the only human troops that could withstand cavalry attacks were pikemen (halberdiers or whatever you call them). All others - even armored ones - had little chance to survive an attack of heavy cavalry.
And a zombie does not even have an armor - how on Earth it can resist charge of heavily armored champions?

I think that for squire the best ability would be a 'large shield' that would add 25%(or smth like that) to ranged defense. While zombie may have 'plague' or any other low level disease http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Anyway I think that resist charge is completely inappropriate for these creatures. And what do you guys think?


p.s. I know that horned demons also have the ability, but I have not made up my mind yet if it's in place...

[rasdel]

You may be right there are A LOT of abilities that could apply to this creatures and that would look better and be more appropiate.
I agree that the militia guard should be the one with the "resist charge" ability, since the weapon he carries "gives" him that ability.
I would give the stun to the squire/knight (in that way they would NOT have to come up with a totally new one).
The plague zombie should have disease (like before)...
About horned demons i am NOT sure yet... i mean, it's hard to come up with a good ability for them, IMHO (i don't really care if you keep that one). But i do believe that the squire/knight and the zombie should get "new" abilities... or at least changed them a little bit... if not every creature would have some kind of "counter" in every other faction with similar abilities... and i would like variety... and not just different creatures with similar abilities.

[Salventus]

Originally posted by Yur_Ko:
Going through the Haven and Necros creatures I noticed that squire/knight and zombie both have 'Resist charge' ability. How could it ever be realistic I don't know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

AFAIK the only human troops that could withstand cavalry attacks were pikemen (halberdiers or whatever you call them). All others - even armored ones - had little chance to survive an attack of heavy cavalry.
And a zombie does not even have an armor - how on Earth it can resist charge of heavily armored champions?

I think that for squire the best ability would be a 'large shield' that would add 25%(or smth like that) to ranged defense. While zombie may have 'plague' or any other low level disease http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Anyway I think that resist charge is completely inappropriate for these creatures. And what do you guys think?


p.s. I know that horned demons also have the ability, but I have not made up my mind yet if it's in place...

I know that the squire/knight is more armored than the militia guards. The weapon is not the only thing that can resist charge it's also the armor. As for the zombie and the grunts/demons, it's about size and I guess also the "natural ability". What I mean by "natural ability" is that the zombie is undead, when is the last time you saw a zombie feel pain anyways? The grunts/demons look pretty thick skinned (e.g hulk) and fierce, I can imagine how they can resist charge.

[Citadel_Sealt]

Nope, their abilities make sense to me pretty much.
The Knight is heavily armored and carrys a really big shield with him, that and the fact that the hero doesn't use a lance to attack makes it quite logical. See, with cutting weapons like the sword the haven hero uses you can't penetrate the knights shield/armor, only with a piercing weapon like a lance this would be doable.
And like Salventus already said, zombies are dead meat that retains the ability to walk. They don't feel pain and have no vital organs that you can hit. One single ride-by slash from a sword won't stop them from shambling forward.

EDIT: Just remembered that some creatures have a "charge" ability,too. Hah, got it mixed uo with the hero ability "holy charge". But my point still stands, the shield protects and the zombies only die when totally chopped up, extra force from the charge doesn't help a lot here.

[Yur_Ko]

Hm. When I think of charge ability I'm referring mailnly to that of Cavalier/Paladin of Haven and Nightmare of Inferno as these creatures will probably cause much more damage than a hero. Also these examples show why walking corpse can't give any additional resistanse to galloping cavalry.

Just imagine a few hundreds of heavily armored knights at their full speed - they won't stop even if they see a nightmare (simply impossible for them). And given the pikes they have... they'll just trample down all those walking corpses and won't even notice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (btw zombie does not have fear ability). I think that resistance to charge should be given to creatures that can stop half ton of galloping mass with a pike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And what concerns heroes - I hope that they will be given lance/pike with the charge ability http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (I actually hope that at least some skills/abilities will change heroes' appearance).

[El_Diablo999]

i heard from an alpha tester that the knight (squire upgrade) stiked twice in battle.

and lets not forget chuckles' information is based off of what he thinks and what he read. so it could just mean high defense points.

and i think a demon should be riding on back of the nightmare.

[Citadel_Sealt]

Originally posted by Yur_Ko:
Hm. When I think of charge ability I'm referring mailnly to that of Cavalier/Paladin of Haven and Nightmare of Inferno as these creatures will probably cause much more damage than a hero. Also these examples show why walking corpse can't give any additional resistanse to galloping cavalry.

Just imagine a few hundreds of heavily armored knights at their full speed - they won't stop even if they see a nightmare (simply impossible for them). And given the pikes they have... they'll just trample down all those walking corpses and won't even notice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (btw zombie does not have fear ability). I think that resistance to charge should be given to creatures that can stop half ton of galloping mass with a pike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And what concerns heroes - I hope that they will be given lance/pike with the charge ability http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (I actually hope that at least some skills/abilities will change heroes' appearance).

Hmm, I absolutely don't see how Salventus's and my arguments prove your point against zombies having "resist charge".
Like I said Zombies only die to massive damage, like cutting their heads off, smashing their brains to a fine paste, etc... So if a Paladin on his horse charges at him his lance will probably blow a hole in his chest and throw the zombie off its feet,...but afterwards it will get right up again without suffering from that wound in any way. How much force is used doesn't change the effect, so a "charge" doesn't do more harm to them then a regular attack, though of course it doesn't totally negate it.

[rasdel]

How much force is used doesn't change the effect, so a "charge" doesn't do more harm to them
Now i get the point... yeap you guys are right! They don't refer to the "impact" but to the whole "action" of the charge... in that case it could be considered that the knight and zombie can "resist" a charge.

[Vicheron]

You don't have to get too technical about these things otherwise you should give all large units the ability to resist charge, a dragon is a hundred times the size of a cavalier, it could fly out of the way of a large group of charging knights, squish and swat them like flies, or just spit a bunch of fireballs at them and blow them up before they could even get close.

[Salventus]

Originally posted by Vicheron:
You don't have to get too technical about these things otherwise you should give all large units the ability to resist charge, a dragon is a hundred times the size of a cavalier, it could fly out of the way of a large group of charging knights, squish and swat them like flies, or just spit a bunch of fireballs at them and blow them up before they could even get close.

Well the Dragons have a Hell of alot more defense and hit points anyways. That in itself is much better than the resist charge ability where lower units can benefit from. Imagine on top of the high defense and hit points that the Dragons have they also get the resist charge ability?! I think it won't be fair.

[NailagCiad]

I believe the demons had some kind of 'resist charge' ability as well. My theory is that it's something far more valuable than what the pikemen of H3 used to have- either because it's only the same name that's common, or that a huge amount of creatures will have the 'distance bonus'. So far, the first seems far more likely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Ellderon]

Originally posted by Citadel_Sealt:
Hmm, I absolutely don't see how Salventus's and my arguments prove your point against zombies having "resist charge".
Like I said Zombies only die to massive damage, like cutting their heads off, smashing their brains to a fine paste, etc... So if a Paladin on his horse charges at him his lance will probably blow a hole in his chest and throw the zombie off its feet,...but afterwards it will get right up again without suffering from that wound in any way. How much force is used doesn't change the effect, so a "charge" doesn't do more harm to them then a regular attack, though of course it doesn't totally negate it.

Only you forget the fact that after the cavalier/paladin runs him trough with his spear his heavy war horse will trample all over him follwed by others and basicly break every bome in his body (including the skull) and squish it's brain.

If you're still not convinced how do you explain a squire with a pike killinga zombie or a knight with a sword? choping off the head?why can't a cavalier/palaing run his lance trough the zombies head insted of chest?

[Leto_II]

these skills are not confirmed are they..thought it was just educated guesses

[C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s]

Correct. I made up the name "resist charge" based on the limited information from the unit descriptions. I seems to imply something along those lines. But NONE of the unit abilites listed on my pages or anyone elses pages have been confirmed yet. Once we get definitive answers on these things, I'll update the pages and note them accordingly.

[Salventus]

Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
Correct. I made up the name "resist charge" based on the limited information from the unit descriptions. I seems to imply something along those lines. But NONE of the unit abilites listed on my pages or anyone elses pages have been confirmed yet. Once we get definitive answers on these things, I'll update the pages and note them accordingly.

I'm gonna kill you chuckles!! how dare you commit such a self intuitive ignorance and here we are trying to define "resist charge" for what it actually means and all our efforts gone to waste?? blah blah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

[UndeadDontDie]

Originally posted by Salventus:
I'm gonna kill you chuckles!! how dare you commit such a self intuitive ignorance and here we are trying to define "resist charge" for what it actually means and all our efforts gone to waste?? blah blah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
Its your fault you didn't read the warning at the head of the page :P

[Deathman.Elf]

Originally posted by Salventus:
I'm gonna kill you chuckles!! how dare you commit such a self intuitive ignorance and here we are trying to define "resist charge" for what it actually means and all our efforts gone to waste?? blah blah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Didnt u read that is it with big red letters on top of the page http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Citadel_Sealt]

Originally posted by Ellderon:

Only you forget the fact that after the cavalier/paladin runs him trough with his spear his heavy war horse will trample all over him follwed by others and basicly break every bome in his body (including the skull) and squish it's brain.

If you're still not convinced how do you explain a squire with a pike killinga zombie or a knight with a sword? choping off the head?why can't a cavalier/palaing run his lance trough the zombies head insted of chest?

First I want to say that this whole argument might be invalid like Chuckles allready pointed out, 'cause in the endeffect zombies might not even have a "resist charge" ability. Then I'd like to mention that there seems to be a little misunderstanding here, I'm not arguing that a Paladin wouldn't do any damage at all to a zombie, in fact I believe the damage would be quite high. All that I'm arguing is that the extra damage from the "charge" is not as effective against zombies than it would be against other creatures, just because of the undead nature of the zombie. You either destroy/damage his brain or you don't, if it's done by a sword swing or a powerfull lance thrust doesn't matter.Body hit= low damage anyway, Head hit= High damage anyway
My point was that I can see the zombie having a "resist charge" ability since they can soak up any non critical damage.

Oh,and when did we change from one zombie vs. one paladin to one zombie against an army?