guns are bad

[muzza798]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-4JDlDs0E

[Myke08]

That was a really great video. Really touching and sad, especially at the family part where he accidentally shoots his dad. Really sad. Hope this video can lower crime rates and help making getting guns alot harder (but not illegal).

[muzza798]

ive seen it over and over and is very powerful. the music is great too.

[dynex811]

Yeah, good find.

[The_Real_Azrael]

lmao....i'm sorry, but it's one thing to not like guns....but it's an entirely different thing to think that those scenarios are reasons why guns shouldn't be allowed.

First off, the guy on the bike should've just given his freaking bike over, he can get another for $100's....and if they didn't have a gun, they would've used a knife anyways. As for the multiple "gangsters" dying, that's what they get for having horrible fashion sense and being idiots....

As for the dad, he obviously isn't a very good father. Instead of trying to intimidate his son, he should've been talking to him. And after the kid pulled a gun out on him, he should've realised that maybe he had overstepped quite a few boundaries for his own child to pull a weapon out to stop him....not tried to take it away like a dip****.....at the very least hit the hand holding the weapon AWAY from your body before trying to grab the gun.

Just more reasons why the British are slowly losing respect in the world.....instead of standing up for yourselves, ya'll yield. There's been almost 10,000 weapon related accidents in a country that doesn't allow semi-automatic weapons, standard bullets in pistols(you can only have a muzzle loaded pistol)......it's "child's play" to get a weapon because they were in high supply BEFORE they were banned. The "bad" guys still have guns, it's now the honest part of the population that is unprotected.....

Great, I'm all for living around gang members and violent people with guns and making sure that ALL the law-abiding civilians AREN'T allowed to have them.....in fact, lets just create a general dislike towards guns so that even our police forces dislike them. FANTASTIC IDEA!!!

I'm sorry that I'm so negative when it comes to this, but ya'll really are just asking to be hurt, and no I don't feel pity for that mindset....get shot and killed and don't freaking complain. Ya'll are the ones that brought it upon yourselves.

[dynex811]

Someone's cranky today.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
lmao....i'm sorry, but it's one thing to not like guns....but it's an entirely different thing to think that those scenarios are reasons why guns shouldn't be allowed.

First off, the guy on the bike should've just given his freaking bike over, he can get another for $100's....and if they didn't have a gun, they would've used a knife anyways. As for the multiple "gangsters" dying, that's what they get for having horrible fashion sense and being idiots....

As for the dad, he obviously isn't a very good father. Instead of trying to intimidate his son, he should've been talking to him. And after the kid pulled a gun out on him, he should've realised that maybe he had overstepped quite a few boundaries for his own child to pull a weapon out to stop him....not tried to take it away like a dip****.....at the very least hit the hand holding the weapon AWAY from your body before trying to grab the gun.

Just more reasons why the British are slowly losing respect in the world.....instead of standing up for yourselves, ya'll yield. There's been almost 10,000 weapon related accidents in a country that doesn't allow semi-automatic weapons, standard bullets in pistols(you can only have a muzzle loaded pistol)......it's "child's play" to get a weapon because they were in high supply BEFORE they were banned. The "bad" guys still have guns, it's now the honest part of the population that is unprotected.....

Great, I'm all for living around gang members and violent people with guns and making sure that ALL the law-abiding civilians AREN'T allowed to have them.....in fact, lets just create a general dislike towards guns so that even our police forces dislike them. FANTASTIC IDEA!!!

I'm sorry that I'm so negative when it comes to this, but ya'll really are just asking to be hurt, and no I don't feel pity for that mindset....get shot and killed and don't freaking complain. Ya'll are the ones that brought it upon yourselves.

Oh, however do we love giving away our bicycles. Of course you're going to fight back. Especially since they teach self defence in schools now. Imagine someone from a poor family, do you think they have money to throw away each time they get robbed?

About your gangster comment, they can be annoying, but with gang related violence, you get innocent people getting caught up in the mix.

As far as the dad, if you're in an argument and all of a sudden you have a gun pulled on you, what would you do. Besides, since it's YOUR FREAKING SON would you honestly believe he would pulled the trigger on you?

I agree on the banning guns part. But the world needs STRICTER gun laws. As in a higher purchasing age and a better background check and whatnot. So more good people can get guns.

[muzza798]

"9650 gun related crimes every day in LA" - HA ONLY JOKIN

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Gun control discussion in a forum about EndWar, now that's irony. XD
Originally posted by Myke08:
Imagine someone from a poor family, do you think they have money to throw away each time they get robbed? Unfortunately, some people can't afford such things. However, nobody can afford to buy back a lost loved one. Forget the bike and just make it out alive. A hundred dollars is nothing compared to a life, no matter how rich or poor you are.


I agree on the banning guns part. But the world needs STRICTER gun laws. As in a higher purchasing age and a better background check and whatnot. So more good people can get guns. Gun control is entirely the wrong idea. It's the people you need to control, not the guns.

Banning guns doesn't do jack to crime. Those who are already criminals don't care about the law.

[Liberator]

Really now. This is rather powerfull but when you think about it in the long run, guns don't kill people, people do.

[Vis02001]

I agree with The_Real_Azrael. Everyone out their tries to blame guns for murdering people. But the real fault is the people who pull the trigger. Back in the day before guns were invented people still killed other people with swords or bow and arrow. What if guns weren't invented today. People would still kill people because people don't care about other peoples lives. A gun is a tool just like a shovel would be. It has a purpose. do we blame the shovel if a person killed another person with a shovel. no not usually. It all comes down to what people decide. They could have killed the same person with a baseball bat, a bomb, hand to hand combat. whatever. It is all what the person who kills another person decides to do.

[muzza798]

no matter what you do criminals will always get hold of them somehow but if there were better punnishments like actual life imprisonment then people would have second thoughts. At the mo life is like 15 years or somin whereas it should be an eye for an eye.

This is based on british law

[The_Real_Azrael]

Thank you Lauren..... if 3 guys are trying to steal your freaking bicycle what can you do? I mean...if you had a self-defense handgun you would be fine and that would be 3 less losers in the world....and you'd still have your bike.....lmao....

As for the dad...no. Again, bad people deserve to die, because bad people are what make our world a "bad place"....and they only spread their ideals to their children and friends. It's like a freaking epidemic. It's in all countries across the whole world. I am 100% supportive of convenient store owners being able to carry weapons....heck, they should be able to carry them in full view so they will be easier to use if the situation arrives. They should be allowed to carry fully operational M-4's....lets see a "gansta" try and steel a pack of cigarettes from someone with a fully automatic weapon strapped to their back.

[LordTenacious]

And yet myke and muzza want to play a game which shows people blowing each other away.

I am a little confused.

[muzza798]

well a game is totally different and as a soldier they are already willing to put their lives down as am i for the freedom of europe which is a little different to "give me your **ucking bike". at the end of the day if those gangsters didnt have guns that man would be 1 bike down but still have his life wouldnt he.

Refering to my old comment they should rechange the law for life imprisonment

[LordTenacious]

But obviously guns can't be that bad considering they are an object through which your entertainment is achieved.

[The_Real_Azrael]

Originally posted by muzza798:
well a game is totally different and as a soldier they are already willing to put their lives down as am i for the freedom of europe which is a little different to "give me your **ucking bike". at the end of the day if those gangsters didnt have guns that man would be 1 bike down but still have his life wouldnt he.

Refering to my old comment they should rechange the law for life imprisonment

And what if they had a knife. It is fairly typical of criminals to carry a weapon....even a bat....are you going to petition to make those illegal also?

[DAFOC]

In my book im maaking they have his thing were you cant get fully auto matic weapons and cant have a weapon that fires more than 50 rounds a miniute

Now the US tried to ban alchol and in that 12 year peroid more alchol was sold than anyother 12 year period. What do you think wil happen if they ban THE SECOND AMENDANTMENT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

[muzza798]

yh i know what your saying and there is nothing you can do about gun crime cos it will always be there but for example if i knew that if i kill this person i will go away for my whole life with no parol it would definetly make me think twice and to me it seems like the only option there is, is to change the law because it is very easy to get a gun but making the punnishment harsh would definetly have an impact.

But anyway i think this video brings up a very good point, is filmed beautifully and has a great track. if your from the UK i would say watch the channel 4 prog that this advert was made for.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

I seem to be getting into this a little late, but I'll tell you guys what I tell everybody who says something on this subject (whether it has been previously stated or not)...Gun control is a joke. Period. If a criminal wants a firearm, whether it is illegal or not, they are going to get one.

What needs to be done is people need to be taught how to actually *use* a firearm. I've told this to lots of people; and to quote them they say, "Oh yeah right. Lets *teach* people how to be murderers." I beg to differ. Law Enforcement officers don't commit murder just because they know how to use a weapon. In fact a lot of the gun deaths that happen (in the US particularly) could be prevented if a youngster actually knew what to do when a weapon is encountered. We treat guns like they are taboo or something to be feared, when in actuality they are not. You wouldn't see a father hand his newly permitted 15 year old the keys to his car and say; "Go drive, have fun!" Thats beyond stupid! You know the kid is going to wreck, because he doesn't know what he is doing! Same way with guns. They only accomplish what the user intends and if the user doesn't understand how to safely use them, they can bring harm to everyone.

All I ask is people think it through before posting crap about firearms being evil or whatever. People get killed with, knives, cars, pipes, shoelaces, ropes, rocks, baseball-bats, sticks, saws, and thousands of other different objects. Guns are only a *small* part of the equation.

At any rate, if you live in the US, guns are going nowhere. If the government should decide (however unlikely) to take away weapons, I'll be counting the seconds to what will be forever known as the 'One-Sided Civil War', because one side will still have guns and the other wont.

[DAFOC]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[Myke08]

Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
Thank you Lauren..... if 3 guys are trying to steal your freaking bicycle what can you do? I mean...if you had a self-defense handgun you would be fine and that would be 3 less losers in the world....and you'd still have your bike.....lmao....

As for the dad...no. Again, bad people deserve to die, because bad people are what make our world a "bad place"....and they only spread their ideals to their children and friends. It's like a freaking epidemic. It's in all countries across the whole world. I am 100% supportive of convenient store owners being able to carry weapons....heck, they should be able to carry them in full view so they will be easier to use if the situation arrives. They should be allowed to carry fully operational M-4's....lets see a "gansta" try and steel a pack of cigarettes from someone with a fully automatic weapon strapped to their back.

Hmm, so I guess you're blaming the families for the kids carrying around weapons? It can't be anyone they hang out with or what not. And don't tell me the families would better control their kids. It's almost impossible, unless you want to follow your kid around all day. And I agree that it's the people, not guns, but if you're having trouble controlling the people, do the next best thing, control the guns. And I am not in support of banning guns, as that would be stupid. More like stricter gun laws.

And knives vs guns. You can easily outrun a knife. In fact, if you keep a safe distance you'll be safe. With a gun, someone can shoot at your from a distance, and then even use it as a melee weapon if they run out of ammunition.

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Pathfinder knows what he's talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Originally posted by Vis02001:
They could have killed the same person with a baseball bat, a bomb, hand to hand combat. whatever. Okay, so far we need to ban baseball bats, bombs, and hands. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Originally posted by LordTenacious:
And yet myke and muzza want to play a game which shows people blowing each other away. Jack Thompson, where are you when we don't need you!?

[wiiper77]

Originally posted by DAFOC:
In my book im maaking they have his thing were you cant get fully auto matic weapons and cant have a weapon that fires more than 50 rounds a miniute

Now the US tried to ban alchol and in that 12 year peroid more alchol was sold than anyother 12 year period. What do you think wil happen if they ban THE SECOND AMENDANTMENT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Now if they try to ban guns, only the baddies will have them and the cops. If they tried to ban guns back in the way early 1800's, it might have worked. But not now. Too many men.....U need to watch this!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW8DRSvEoQ) Listen to the chorus!!!

[DAFOC]

Originally posted by wiiper77:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DAFOC:
In my book im maaking they have his thing were you cant get fully auto matic weapons and cant have a weapon that fires more than 50 rounds a miniute

Now the US tried to ban alchol and in that 12 year peroid more alchol was sold than anyother 12 year period. What do you think wil happen if they ban THE SECOND AMENDANTMENT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Now if they try to ban guns, only the baddies will have them and the cops. URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KW8DRSvEoQ]U need to watch this!!![/URL] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Holy crap me and my mom talked about this last night and she said what you said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Myke08]

Originally posted by LordTenacious:
And yet myke and muzza want to play a game which shows people blowing each other away.

I am a little confused.

You're an idiot.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by Myke08:

Hmm, so I guess you're blaming the families for the kids carrying around weapons? It can't be anyone they hang out with or what not. And don't tell me the families would better control their kids. It's almost impossible, unless you want to follow your kid around all day. And I agree that it's the people, not guns, but if you're having trouble controlling the people, do the next best thing, control the guns. And I am not in support of banning guns, as that would be stupid. More like stricter gun laws.

And knives vs guns. You can easily outrun a knife. In fact, if you keep a safe distance you'll be safe. With a gun, someone can shoot at your from a distance, and then even use it as a melee weapon if they run out of ammunition.

Outrun a car. They can kill you just as easily.

Think about this; the kids that hit Columbine High School had high powered rifles and practiced with them in the woods. Their parents claimed that they didn't know the kids owned them, but there were at least two issues that I can think of off the top of my head; 1) They were underage, so its not like they could walk into pawn shop or store to buy the weapons. Then, 2) The firearms had to be stored somewhere, so how come the parents didn't find out about them? They don't know what their kids are into obviously.

To put it bluntly, I blame ********ers and *ALL* of it on the parents. If you are involved in your kids lives, and actually being a good role model, the chances of something like this happening are almost non-existent. Does that mean it won't happen, probly not; but if parents would actually take proper authority over their kids instead of letting the kids dictate what the parents do, *only* then I will expect to see a change.

Will that happen? Same as before...probly not.

[LordTenacious]

Originally posted by Myke08:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LordTenacious:
And yet myke and muzza want to play a game which shows people blowing each other away.

I am a little confused.

You're an idiot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? Guns = Bad to you.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myke08:

Hmm, so I guess you're blaming the families for the kids carrying around weapons? It can't be anyone they hang out with or what not. And don't tell me the families would better control their kids. It's almost impossible, unless you want to follow your kid around all day. And I agree that it's the people, not guns, but if you're having trouble controlling the people, do the next best thing, control the guns. And I am not in support of banning guns, as that would be stupid. More like stricter gun laws.

And knives vs guns. You can easily outrun a knife. In fact, if you keep a safe distance you'll be safe. With a gun, someone can shoot at your from a distance, and then even use it as a melee weapon if they run out of ammunition.

Outrun a car. They can kill you just as easily.

Think about this; the kids that hit Columbine High School had high powered rifles and practiced with them in the woods. Their parents claimed that they didn't know the kids owned them, but there were at least two issues that I can think of off the top of my head; 1) They were underage, so its not like they could walk into pawn shop or store to buy the weapons. Then, 2) The firearms had to be stored somewhere, so how come the parents didn't find out about them? They don't know what their kids are into obviously.

To put it bluntly, I blame ********ers and *ALL* of it on the parents. If you are involved in your kids lives, and actually being a good role model, the chances of something like this happening are almost non-existent. Does that mean it won't happen, probly not; but if parents would actually take proper authority over their kids instead of letting the kids dictate what the parents do, *only* then I will expect to see a change.

Will that happen? Same as before...probly not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's pretty easy to pick up weapons. I doubt their parents had automatic weapons, because that would be illegal. These kids picked these weapons up from somewhere, including friends. Not only that, they were bale to make 99 homemade bombs. A parent can only do so much for their child, you you will never get what you expected.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by LordTenacious:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myke08:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LordTenacious:
And yet myke and muzza want to play a game which shows people blowing each other away.

I am a little confused.

You're an idiot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? Guns = Bad to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Weak gun laws = bad to me. And gun crimes = bad to me. The army is a different story.

[aznpwnerp]

Gun's dont kill people. People kill people.

[LordTenacious]

Originally posted by aznpwnerp:
Gun's dont kill people. People kill people.
SHUT UP!! IT'S THE SENTIENT GUN'S FAULT!!

[DukeCanada]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
I seem to be getting into this a little late, but I'll tell you guys what I tell everybody who says something on this subject (whether it has been previously stated or not)...Gun control is a joke. Period. If a criminal wants a firearm, whether it is illegal or not, they are going to get one.

What needs to be done is people need to be taught how to actually *use* a firearm. I've told this to lots of people; and to quote them they say, "Oh yeah right. Lets *teach* people how to be murderers." I beg to differ. Law Enforcement officers don't commit murder just because they know how to use a weapon. In fact a lot of the gun deaths that happen (in the US particularly) could be prevented if a youngster actually knew what to do when a weapon is encountered. We treat guns like they are taboo or something to be feared, when in actuality they are not. You wouldn't see a father hand his newly permitted 15 year old the keys to his car and say; "Go drive, have fun!" Thats beyond stupid! You know the kid is going to wreck, because he doesn't know what he is doing! Same way with guns. They only accomplish what the user intends and if the user doesn't understand how to safely use them, they can bring harm to everyone.

All I ask is people think it through before posting crap about firearms being evil or whatever. People get killed with, knives, cars, pipes, shoelaces, ropes, rocks, baseball-bats, sticks, saws, and thousands of other different objects. Guns are only a *small* part of the equation.

At any rate, if you live in the US, guns are going nowhere. If the government should decide (however unlikely) to take away weapons, I'll be counting the seconds to what will be forever known as the 'One-Sided Civil War', because one side will still have guns and the other wont.

i agree and disagree with you. Gun control is no joke. It often seen as ineffective because we have yet to see the results of a gun control system. If a fire arms ban was inforced and moderated it would be very effective. Just like drugs, it easy to catch a dealer and crack down on his partners and suppliers. However the problem with drugs is that they are easy to access and make, while guns and very difficult to transport and make.

We should train our youth to handle guns. I have no fire arms experience. None, whenever I see a knife or gun on someone, or hear about a shooting I immediatly assume that if something like that would happen to me I would be the first to die because I have no experience with weapons. I hate this feeling and feel that if I has taken a fire arms class or some sort of defence against fire arms class I would be much safer.

[The_Real_Azrael]

Yea, and that can be attributed to many parents depending on every else to raise their kids. Blaming schools for their childs actions.....not it's because you didn't teach your child any freaking morals. And they're no longer taught in school because ALL religion is banned in school now, and most teachers would be afraid of trying to tell a kid that it is WRONG to not respect life. Because when they do try and repremand a child for these actions, the teachers are the ones that get in trouble.

Not the kid with their pathetic reality based on a movie, song, or yes....even a video game because they have no role model to look up to. Because their parents are too busy complaining about their excuse of a marriage....or their job....We've become saturated in laziness and no one knows what it means to take responsibility for your own actions anymore. Just look at how many different ways there are to claim your mentally incapable of deciphering between "right and wrong"..... our society is a joke.

And to the person who said they should just make it a life sentence to be caught with a gun, or commit a crime with a gun....it pretty much already is, and all that does is make the criminal fight HARDER to not get caught. THAT'S why EVERYONE gets killed when a convenience store is robbed.... for $300 they will kill a person so it's harder to identify them. Fantastic idea.

I don't pretend to understand the mind of a criminal....but the whole reason they are criminals is because they DON'T obey the law.... and I completely agree with pathfinder.

But at the same time, it is a good thing that the gangsters don't how to use their guns, so they typically have to be within 10ft to even hit their targets..... not to mention they don't know the first thing about "breaking in" a weapon, OR cleaning it......that's what keeps our cops alive, because the criminals are incompetent.

[muzza798]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
I seem to be getting into this a little late, but I'll tell you guys what I tell everybody who says something on this subject (whether it has been previously stated or not)...Gun control is a joke. Period. If a criminal wants a firearm, whether it is illegal or not, they are going to get one.

What needs to be done is people need to be taught how to actually *use* a firearm. I've told this to lots of people; and to quote them they say, "Oh yeah right. Lets *teach* people how to be murderers." I beg to differ. Law Enforcement officers don't commit murder just because they know how to use a weapon. In fact a lot of the gun deaths that happen (in the US particularly) could be prevented if a youngster actually knew what to do when a weapon is encountered. We treat guns like they are taboo or something to be feared, when in actuality they are not. You wouldn't see a father hand his newly permitted 15 year old the keys to his car and say; "Go drive, have fun!" Thats beyond stupid! You know the kid is going to wreck, because he doesn't know what he is doing! Same way with guns. They only accomplish what the user intends and if the user doesn't understand how to safely use them, they can bring harm to everyone.

All I ask is people think it through before posting crap about firearms being evil or whatever. People get killed with, knives, cars, pipes, shoelaces, ropes, rocks, baseball-bats, sticks, saws, and thousands of other different objects. Guns are only a *small* part of the equation.

At any rate, if you live in the US, guns are going nowhere. If the government should decide (however unlikely) to take away weapons, I'll be counting the seconds to what will be forever known as the 'One-Sided Civil War', because one side will still have guns and the other wont.

i agree and disagree with you. Gun control is no joke. It often seen as ineffective because we have yet to see the results of a gun control system. If a fire arms ban was inforced and moderated it would be very effective. Just like drugs, it easy to catch a dealer and crack down on his partners and suppliers. However the problem with drugs is that they are easy to access and make, while guns and very difficult to transport and make.

We should train our youth to handle guns. I have no fire arms experience. None, whenever I see a knife or gun on someone, or hear about a shooting I immediatly assume that if something like that would happen to me I would be the first to die because I have no experience with weapons. I hate this feeling and feel that if I has taken a fire arms class or some sort of defence against fire arms class I would be much safer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but arent you just giving in to gun crime then and saying theres nothing atall we can do about it so lets start teaching kids about guns. i do see where you are coming from but keeping it out from schools etc would be a start as if kids never see a gun then that decreases the chance of them wanting it or getting 1. if you start showing them target practice and self defence then your just accepting that its going to happen and that is not the case. making tougher prison laws is the way and keeping a no tolerance policy on guns will always be better than letting everyone have 1 like in america.

if you start teaching stuff about guns the kids etc become familiar with guns and it becomes just another object and thats the problem. some people dont realise the consiquences of what will happen if you pull the trigger on some 1 becuase the gun is just an accessory to them.

not trying to have a dig at the US but their gun crime is alot lot higher than in the UK and its possible for anyone to get a gun. if you make guns very hard to get then they'll either use a different weapon to TRY and kill you with i.e. a knife or bat, which you would actually have a chance of getting away from or they would just not try and kill you in the first place and just beat you up.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:

i agree and disagree with you. Gun control is no joke. It often seen as ineffective because we have yet to see the results of a gun control system. If a fire arms ban was inforced and moderated it would be very effective. Just like drugs, it easy to catch a dealer and crack down on his partners and suppliers. However the problem with drugs is that they are easy to access and make, while guns and very difficult to transport and make.

You are mistaken, we have seen a gun-control system in place and moderated, here is a list that I have had for years, and notice what they all have in common...


In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.

- From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

- From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Germany established gun control in 1938.

- From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


China established gun control in 1935.

- From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Guatemala established gun control in 1964.

- From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Uganda established gun control in 1970.

- From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Cambodia established gun control in 1956.

- From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


See anything interesting? I wonder who the modern-day gun control advocates want exterminated??

[Myke08]

Cambodia targeted Vietnamese, not educated people....

And the Mayans died out a long time ago.

I'm doubting your sources. And in a country like the US, you'll believe your president will go crazy and start killing out people? Because your showing that gun control leads to genocide.

[muzza798]

the most recent 1 of those was in the 70s and the others were in LEDC's with corrupt governments and even if 1 of the civilians who couldnt defend him/herself whos to say that same person would of gone on a killing spree or killed any1 with a gun because they were allowed access to it. no tollerance policies work if you have a stable government like britains who arnt going to turn around and kill millions of british jews. + all those episodes in time were b4 street related gun crime really took off and times were different back then so you cant really say the russian thing from 1917 or w/e is really velevant to 2008 gun crime.

no we have tech to defeat crime like cctv to say to people if you shoot that person we will see you and nower days population has increased so yh the gun rates might go up but the average may still be the same as it was then it would just be a big number and analists would just say omg look at the gun crime rates even though they are small in comparrison to the overall population of a country like britain.

i mean 10,000 gun related crimes isint alot out of 60 million people whereas in the usa for example im certain the average would be higher than that due to not having a no tolleance policy

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Well one thing's for sure, if they ban guns, I'm keeping mine for when they try to exterminate me. >_>

Just because it's not a right written on paper doesn't mean it's not still a right.

They can take the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness off the Constitution, but it will still be my right and I will still pursue it.

Second Amendment is no different to me, it'll still be my right whether they say so or not.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by muzza798:

but arent you just giving in to gun crime then and saying theres nothing atall we can do about it so lets start teaching kids about guns. i do see where you are coming from but keeping it out from schools etc would be a start as if kids never see a gun then that decreases the chance of them wanting it or getting 1. if you start showing them target practice and self defence then your just accepting that its going to happen and that is not the case. making tougher prison laws is the way and keeping a no tolerance policy on guns will always be better than letting everyone have 1 like in america.

if you start teaching stuff about guns the kids etc become familiar with guns and it becomes just another object and thats the problem. some people dont realise the consiquences of what will happen if you pull the trigger on some 1 becuase the gun is just an accessory to them.

not trying to have a dig at the US but their gun crime is alot lot higher than in the UK and its possible for anyone to get a gun. if you make guns very hard to get then they'll either use a different weapon to TRY and kill you with i.e. a knife or bat, which you would actually have a chance of getting away from or they would just not try and kill you in the first place and just beat you up.

I disagree with everything you are saying, the gun crime in the US is a lot higher statistically, because of the fact that the US has roughly THIRTY times MORE citizens. Crime IS going to happen, and if you are 18 and haven't accepted that fact then you are certainly dumber that we are making you out to be. (I'm not saying *you're* dumb, what you said is just stupid.) Personally, I believe if you are going to commit a crime with a firearm, you can forget prison altogether. I'd just shoot them, not only is it cheaper that way, if you do *that* you're crime rate will go lower than anybody has ever seen before.

For the record; a gun IS an accessory, and a tool. That is why when a crime is committed with one it is classified AS SUCH. Ever heard of a gun being used as an accessory to a crime?? Now you know why.

It doesn't really matter to me, anyway. You guys can do what you want in other countries. I don't really care, as I don't live there. Mark my words, if anybody tries to take the guns away from Americans, you know what side *I*, and millions of other people, will be on.

[DAFOC]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DukeCanada:

i agree and disagree with you. Gun control is no joke. It often seen as ineffective because we have yet to see the results of a gun control system. If a fire arms ban was inforced and moderated it would be very effective. Just like drugs, it easy to catch a dealer and crack down on his partners and suppliers. However the problem with drugs is that they are easy to access and make, while guns and very difficult to transport and make.

You are mistaken, we have seen a gun-control system in place and moderated, here is a list that I have had for years, and notice what they all have in common...


In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.

- From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

- From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Germany established gun control in 1938.

- From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


China established gun control in 1935.

- From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Guatemala established gun control in 1964.

- From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Uganda established gun control in 1970.

- From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Cambodia established gun control in 1956.

- From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


See anything interesting? I wonder who the modern-day gun control advocates want exterminated?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow all of those goverments wer commies or DICStaors

[DukeCanada]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DukeCanada:

i agree and disagree with you. Gun control is no joke. It often seen as ineffective because we have yet to see the results of a gun control system. If a fire arms ban was inforced and moderated it would be very effective. Just like drugs, it easy to catch a dealer and crack down on his partners and suppliers. However the problem with drugs is that they are easy to access and make, while guns and very difficult to transport and make.

You are mistaken, we have seen a gun-control system in place and moderated, here is a list that I have had for years, and notice what they all have in common...


In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.

- From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

- From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Germany established gun control in 1938.

- From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


China established gun control in 1935.

- From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Guatemala established gun control in 1964.

- From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Uganda established gun control in 1970.

- From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Cambodia established gun control in 1956.

- From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


See anything interesting? I wonder who the modern-day gun control advocates want exterminated?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im sorry but your telling me that if gun control laws were implimented in the UK then people would be rounded up and exterminated? All the nations you stated were nations who wanted to get rid of a minority. the UK, Canada, the USA, Australia, and the rest of Europe dont have minorities they want to get rid of. I dont think extermination is something we have to fear if fire arms control is implimented.

Now if this was trying to be implimented in the middle east then I might be a bit more skeptical of the idea...

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by Myke08:
Cambodia targeted Vietnamese, not educated people....

And the Mayans died out a long time ago.

I'm doubting your sources. And in a country like the US, you'll believe your president will go crazy and start killing out people? Because your showing that gun control leads to genocide.

"Educated" is in quotations, and there are *still* Mayans in South America.

For you final statement, our government is setup to prevent such things from happening. In that same reasoning, it prevents LOTS of things from happening both good and bad. If gun control actually passed, that would be just one less hurdle in the way for the government to exterminate someone, and the cool thing is; that whole argument is actually why the US has a Second Amendment to begin with. To keep the government in check, because the US is ruled BY THE PEOPLE.

[muzza798]

pathfinder_82nd that was my point, that the US has 6 times the citizans so on paper their gun crime is more where in fact for example it could of always been the same average like when americas population was 50% lower the they could of still had the same gun crime average but it just sounds like alot when you put a large figuer on paper.

And, im am absolutly certain if britain had no gun crime policy then the flood gates would open and there would absolutly be no drop in gun crime rates. america is in too deep to bring a policy now as americans have had the privilage of having guns for so long that everybody has 1 so if you implimented it, it would make little difference.

wheras having a gun crime policy and then taking it away would be a big mistake.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:

Im sorry but your telling me that if gun control laws were implimented in the UK then people would be rounded up and exterminated? All the nations you stated were nations who wanted to get rid of a minority. the UK, Canada, the USA, Australia, and the rest of Europe dont have minorities they want to get rid of. I dont think extermination is something we have to fear if fire arms control is implimented.

Now if this was trying to be implimented in the middle east then I might be a bit more skeptical of the idea...

Thats exactly what I'm saying, and "no" they weren't all minorities. The Jews weren't a minority in Germany, and Christians weren't a minority in Uganda.

Do you know what 'dissident' means?

[muzza798]

a little off topic, has any1 ever gone airsofting?

[LordTenacious]

I'll say that's more than a "little" off-topic in a topic that you created.

[deamonomic]

even if we completly got rid of guns, we would still be killing each other just as much. as a species, we love to kill things.

[DukeCanada]

The Jews were a minority. There were less Jews in Germany then there were Germans so henceforth they were a minority

Dissidents are people who challenge something, usaully a policy. Russia is a big country, with a massive population. The 20 million were still a minority and they were against a totalitarian government. They were targets. Of course they were going to be killed!

Im not educated on the Uganda issue but im sure 300 000 is not the majority of a country. Thus making them a minority.

But you not acknowleding the fact tha we dont live in societies where extermination is possible. Thus we dont have to fear persecution! If gun laws become more strict and more heavily supported then it will be almost impossible to get guns into the UK. Its not that hard to check every plan and boat coming and leaving the Island...

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by deamonomic:
even if we completly got rid of guns, we would still be killing each other just as much.

I agree 110%.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:
The Jews were a minority. There were less Jews in Germany then there were Germans so henceforth they were a minority

Dissidents are people who challenge something, usaully a policy. Russia is a big country, with a massive population. The 20 million were still a minority and they were against a totalitarian government. They were targets. Of course they were going to be killed!

Im not educated on the Uganda issue but im sure 300 000 is not the majority of a country. Thus making them a minority.

But you not acknowleding the fact tha we dont live in societies where extermination is possible. Thus we dont have to fear persecution! If gun laws become more strict and more heavily supported then it will be almost impossible to get guns into the UK. Its not that hard to check every plan and boat coming and leaving the Island...

Steven Harper has been doing some crazy totalitarian stuff, eh?

[LordTenacious]

Whazzat? Has the chief of the lumberjacks threatened to seal off your maple syrup reserves unless you build a giant statue in his honor?

You know what could solve that problem? Guns.

[deamonomic]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:
The Jews were a minority. There were less Jews in Germany then there were Germans so henceforth they were a minority

Dissidents are people who challenge something, usaully a policy. Russia is a big country, with a massive population. The 20 million were still a minority and they were against a totalitarian government. They were targets. Of course they were going to be killed!

Im not educated on the Uganda issue but im sure 300 000 is not the majority of a country. Thus making them a minority.

But you not acknowleding the fact tha we dont live in societies where extermination is possible. Thus we dont have to fear persecution! If gun laws become more strict and more heavily supported then it will be almost impossible to get guns into the UK. Its not that hard to check every plan and boat coming and leaving the Island...

your assuming they know a boat is comming in lol it wouldnt be THAT secure.

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by DukeCanada:

But you not acknowleding the fact tha we dont live in societies where extermination is possible. Thus we dont have to fear persecution! If gun laws become more strict and more heavily supported then it will be almost impossible to get guns into the UK. Its not that hard to check every plan and boat coming and leaving the Island...

How much do you want to bet on that last sentence?

What has me confused is; why do you think that governmental control and extermination isn't possible in our society? Its not like the heart of man has changed any in the last 60 years, all that has to happen is the government finds something that it doesn't like.

[DukeCanada]

He took my maple syrup and pancakes on sunday morning. Then he stole my skiis and told me that "educated" people cant have a good time. He pulled me out of University and said it was better if I work at a factory to produce maple syrup powered nukes. He said I could say "eh" anymore and stole my "Proud Canadian" T shirt. Im supposed to go to a camp called Cashwitz. There is a sign that says "work makes you free" over the front gate.


Damn you harper! Give me my pancake back http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

[LordTenacious]

I heard if you say "From Eh to Zed" ten times fast you can get your pancakes back.

[Myke08]

http://www.garth.ca/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/harper.jpg

HE'S WATCHING YOUR EVERY MOVE

[LordTenacious]

Look at his eyes and look at your spetsnaz guy in your sig.

COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT!!

[aznpwnerp]

Originally posted by Myke08:
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/harper.jpg

HE'S WATCHING YOUR EVERY MOVE This (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/375012/) is what he will do!

[TaSniper]

A Powerful video. Reading through your posts guys reminds me about the good times on these forums. How people are able to debate while refraining from insulting one another and keeping a level head. Nice job guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.

[Reconning_GRSC6]

Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
Yea, and that can be attributed to many parents depending on every else to raise their kids. Blaming schools for their childs actions.....not it's because you didn't teach your child any freaking morals. And they're no longer taught in school because ALL religion is banned in school now, and most teachers would be afraid of trying to tell a kid that it is WRONG to not respect life. Because when they do try and repremand a child for these actions, the teachers are the ones that get in trouble.

Not the kid with their pathetic reality based on a movie, song, or yes....even a video game because they have no role model to look up to. Because their parents are too busy complaining about their excuse of a marriage....or their job....We've become saturated in laziness and no one knows what it means to take responsibility for your own actions anymore. Just look at how many different ways there are to claim your mentally incapable of deciphering between "right and wrong"..... our society is a joke.

And to the person who said they should just make it a life sentence to be caught with a gun, or commit a crime with a gun....it pretty much already is, and all that does is make the criminal fight HARDER to not get caught. THAT'S why EVERYONE gets killed when a convenience store is robbed.... for $300 they will kill a person so it's harder to identify them. Fantastic idea.

I don't pretend to understand the mind of a criminal....but the whole reason they are criminals is because they DON'T obey the law.... and I completely agree with pathfinder.

But at the same time, it is a good thing that the gangsters don't how to use their guns, so they typically have to be within 10ft to even hit their targets..... not to mention they don't know the first thing about "breaking in" a weapon, OR cleaning it......that's what keeps our cops alive, because the criminals are incompetent.

I agree with you all the way man. Easy to blame hard to accept huh

[AF_Falcons21]

Originally posted by Reconning_GRSC6:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
Yea, and that can be attributed to many parents depending on every else to raise their kids. Blaming schools for their childs actions.....not it's because you didn't teach your child any freaking morals. And they're no longer taught in school because ALL religion is banned in school now, and most teachers would be afraid of trying to tell a kid that it is WRONG to not respect life. Because when they do try and repremand a child for these actions, the teachers are the ones that get in trouble.

Not the kid with their pathetic reality based on a movie, song, or yes....even a video game because they have no role model to look up to. Because their parents are too busy complaining about their excuse of a marriage....or their job....We've become saturated in laziness and no one knows what it means to take responsibility for your own actions anymore. Just look at how many different ways there are to claim your mentally incapable of deciphering between "right and wrong"..... our society is a joke.

And to the person who said they should just make it a life sentence to be caught with a gun, or commit a crime with a gun....it pretty much already is, and all that does is make the criminal fight HARDER to not get caught. THAT'S why EVERYONE gets killed when a convenience store is robbed.... for $300 they will kill a person so it's harder to identify them. Fantastic idea.

I don't pretend to understand the mind of a criminal....but the whole reason they are criminals is because they DON'T obey the law.... and I completely agree with pathfinder.

But at the same time, it is a good thing that the gangsters don't how to use their guns, so they typically have to be within 10ft to even hit their targets..... not to mention they don't know the first thing about "breaking in" a weapon, OR cleaning it......that's what keeps our cops alive, because the criminals are incompetent.

I agree with you all the way man. Easy to blame hard to accept huh </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
Quite the post.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
And they're no longer taught in school because ALL religion is banned in school now,

Wrong, I'm going to a publically funded Catholic School (we have that in Ontario).

[The_Real_Azrael]

Originally posted by Myke08:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
And they're no longer taught in school because ALL religion is banned in school now,

Wrong, I'm going to a publically funded Catholic School (we have that in Ontario). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm talking about the United States though.... our public schools will fire teachers for simply recommending a church.... Not that I think everyone should have one specific religion. But a general respect for life comes from teaching a majority of religions. Granted, I do realise that the process of teaching could be slightly altered and the result could be an utter lack of respect for ANYTHING not within that persons religious bubble. Hence the reason why religious extremists care so little about the ones they harm. To them they are only ridding this world of "trash". That's how I feel about gangster on gangster killings....it's not a big step to transfer the gangster into the "savage"....

Granted, the only religion I know about that completely seperates it's followers from the rest of the world is Judaism, I freaking love jews, but from my understanding, they don't go around looking for converts. Not that I dislike the Jewish faith, but that belief structure is easily manipulated to convince the followers that in-humane actions are righteous. This is why ALL criminals do what they do though. They feel that they are on a righteous path, or they simply do not care where their path leads at all.

The "righteous" ones are actually controllable, easy to handle....the apathetic ones are what should be feared, they are the psychotic ones. A gang member thinks his actions are a means of revenge.... an eye for an eye, a crip for a blood. And that is why their "war", or any war based on those premises will be on a continual loop until there is no distinction between the "crip" or "blood", muslim or christian, American or Russian..... it is the ones that have no respect for life whatsoever that should be truly feared. Telling them about your family back at home, your 2year old child who just started talking in sentences, those examples of life only give them more pleasure when taking it.

They have lost their passion and they are jealous of everyone elses. They had a bad childhood amplified by their lack of responsibility, so they want to take anyone elses enjoyable fatherhood/childhood. They want to take away everything that they see as better than their own. And because they don't believe in a higher purpose, in a final punishment, in another realm of existence, they feel that their suffering has been the most extreme that has ever happened in the world.

It does not matter if there are even guns or not, they don't need guns for their actions, neither of these groups do. Even a simple dinner fork will work. You CANNOT take away their weapons.... what you can do though is allow the "innocents" a way to protect themselves. Being prepared prevents an attacker from being successful. Short of them triggering a bomb while you're in close proximity will be a fighting chance for you. Guns are the most effective weapon for us to defend ourselves.... and that should NOT be taken away from ANYONE. Even criminals can be attacked. Instead of worrying about when they are going to attack next, or what they are going to attack with...the thought process should be how prepared are you going to be?

To go back to the video....if the convenient store lady had a pistol, and stayed BEHIND her counter and pulled out her weapon, would she have been shot? It is likely one or all of the kids would have been, but that would depend on their reaction to having a gun drawn on them. Had the man on the bicycle simply stepped away from his bike he would AT MOST have to call a cab. How many robberies would there be if robbers continually got shot...not the victims? How many car thefts would there be if carjackers recieved a hollow point instead of keys? How many gang shooting would there be if the innocent civilians opened fire even if they weren't being shot at? How many of these weak minded criminals would truly try and follow through with their plans if they were met face to face with someone as determined to stop them as they were to commit their crime?

I'll tell you, the only ones left are the true crazies....and the great thing about this, is the true crazies wouldn't be going to jail....they wouldn't be on the run committing more crimes along the way.... they wouldn't be repeating their offenses. They would be getting put 6 feet under. Can you imagine how the movie "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" would have ended if everyone in the car was equipped with at least a handgun? I can't imagine leatherface, no matter how "invincible" he is, to take a full clip of .45caliber bullets and keep coming. How far could charles manson really go if each of his potential victims were armed? They might get lucky once, maybe even a second, or even third time, but I can guarantee you that ramifications will come MUCH swifter if they encountered ARMED victims everytime. It is purely statistics.

[Myke08]

I wouldn't call the Jews innocent... Not too long ago they were burning hundreds of copies of the New Testament because they found one in a library.

[The_Real_Azrael]

Originally posted by Myke08:
I wouldn't call the Jews innocent... Not too long ago they were burning hundreds of copies of the New Testament because they found one in a library.

Haha...I'm not defending them, they have just as many mislead "sheep" as any other nation/religion. Purely saying the sins of a few do NOT make that the sins of the group.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by The_Real_Azrael:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myke08:
I wouldn't call the Jews innocent... Not too long ago they were burning hundreds of copies of the New Testament because they found one in a library.

Haha...I'm not defending them, they have just as many mislead "sheep" as any other nation/religion. Purely saying the sins of a few do NOT make that the sins of the group. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.godhatescanada.com/
http://www.godhatesamerica.com/
http://www.godhatessweden.com/

[Kida409]

"Canada is a homo-fascist state where the filthy *** agenda has become the law of the land."
Oh, be nice!
lol, i can't shake the image of all these men dressed like mr slave zeig heiling some butch lesbian version of hitler.

[LordTenacious]

Normally I'd ask Kida, but sometimes it just doesn't pay to ask.

[mythistocles]

Not to rant, but I'm personally tired of all these people giving Christians such a bad name. I'm a Christian and my church has donated of 3 million dollars to city reaching projects and charities so far this year alone. Yet, somehow we are always the "bad guys". Have any of you ever seen a Christian gangster? How about seen a Christian rob a bank? I fail to see how we are a part of the problem.

Sorry about the rank, I'll go away now, but this just ticks me off so bad.

[dynex811]

Originally posted by mythistocles:
I hate to be the one who ends the "nice" forum talk, especially after you guys were praised about how nicely the debate was going, but as a Christian I have to say that those sites are complete and udder bull$hit. Taking references from the bible and putting them out of context, and adding verses that don't even exist. How many times have you heard stories of a Christian shooting anyone, or robbing a bank? Even if you don't believe in a God, I fail to see how you can that Christians are bad, or will end the world. That's just stupid. We are trying to help. My church has donated over 5 million dollars to charities in our city SO FAR THIS YEAR ALONE. Not to condemn atheists, but I have yet to see a "religious" gangster. Yet someone we are always the bad guys.

Extremely sorry about the rant, I promise I will go away now, but that just makes me so upset. We are part of the solution, not the problem.

That's not necessarily true. Many Christian churches are completely agings gays, jews, minorities ect. Not saying that the particular one you belong to does that but how can you say that religion is not part of the problem?

Also, what do you mean by a Religious gangster? Whatever you're referring to, I guarantee you they are out there. Saying that you have never heard of them does not mean that they exist. They do.

[LordTenacious]

I love how this topic has gone from anti-gun to anti-religion. Next stop, anti-free speech!

[dynex811]

Free-speech killed my grandmother.

[Kida409]

i think you could find a fair amount in the Italian mafia, since they tend to come from catholic backgrounds. with such an extremely large percentage of the world pop. professing to being christian i think i can safetly say that at least one christain has robbed a bank/ committed a crime at some point in time. Hey, dont feel so bad all other major religions get demonised just as much, you guys are nothing special no matter how much your God(s)/holy texts say you are.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by mythistocles:
Not to rant, but I'm personally tired of all these people giving Christians such a bad name. I'm a Christian and my church has donated of 3 million dollars to city reaching projects and charities so far this year alone. Yet, somehow we are always the "bad guys". Have any of you ever seen a Christian gangster? How about seen a Christian rob a bank? I fail to see how we are a part of the problem.

Sorry about the rank, I'll go away now, but this just ticks me off so bad.

Dude I'm a Catholic. I just posted those sites because they are a laugh.

[Spartas-Julius]

Originally posted by LordTenacious:
I love how this topic has gone from anti-gun to anti-religion. Next stop, anti-free speech!

how about we all hug, and go anti....hippie brigade :P

[Myke08]

Originally posted by LordTenacious:
I love how this topic has gone from anti-gun to anti-religion. Next stop, anti-free speech!

Umm, anti religion? GTFO.

[silentstriderm]

Originally posted by mythistocles:
Not to rant, but I'm personally tired of all these people giving Christians such a bad name.

I have to disagree with you there. It's Christians that give Christians a bad name. I'll agree with you that there is a stereotype, but from my experience it is one that has been earned. Maybe you're lucky enough to not have a group of radical christians in your area.

I've never had any other religion tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't go to their particular denomination, or don't read the bible everyday, etc, etc. And I'm a christian!

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Christians can mess up too. Robbing banks, yes, Christian gangsters, yes. It's that word called "sin." XD

[The_Real_Azrael]

there's absolutely no reason to go "anti-religion"....just go anti-Scientologist....lmao.

[Myke08]

Originally posted by silentstriderm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mythistocles:
Not to rant, but I'm personally tired of all these people giving Christians such a bad name.

I have to disagree with you there. It's Christians that give Christians a bad name. I'll agree with you that there is a stereotype, but from my experience it is one that has been earned. Maybe you're lucky enough to not have a group of radical christians in your area.

I've never had any other religion tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't go to their particular denomination, or don't read the bible everyday, etc, etc. And I'm a christian! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dislike the Westboro Church. It only has 70 members and they seem to burn flags and are happy of dead soldier. Those links that I posted were their sites.

[BTR74]

After reading thier website, I have an urge to beat the sh*t out of every single member of the WBC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Reconning_GRSC6]

Im a Chirstian and I hate those Westboro Church members well the people who believe their cause. Its not their decision if a person goes to hell or not its Gods decision. I would like to challenge them on a debate but their are pu$$ys who can only talk about the troops behind their backs. And hey if they love those IEDs so f**king much why dont they join Al Qaeda they like to kill Americans and destroy our beliefs.

[DAFOC]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gifI'll post more on this later

[BTR74]

Yeah Im Catholic and I hate zealots who think natural disasters are God's "punishment" for a leting gays get married or that non-Christians go to hell and stupid crap like that. And that part about the American soldiers was just sickening...
I could go on for hours about how much I hate a$$holes like that but this really isn't something to discuss on this forum

[mattack91]

We've discussed religion before on these forums, and I remember a post I made about how humans have outgrown religion, and religion is hurting rather than helping. If I find it, Ill post it here.

[LordDaishi]

Originally posted by mattack91:
We've discussed religion before on these forums, and I remember a post I made about how humans have outgrown religion, and religion is hurting rather than helping. If I find it, Ill post it here. just to contribute i feel that the only way that religion can hurt is when someone loses the ability to inerpret on there own and they rely on a sole person to explain to them its because of that morals break down or can throw people against each other religion is an important thing because it keeps corrrupt people from claiming a higher level of awareness if your parents are not teaching you what it means to be religious or have the common sense not to harm yourself through ignorant action then you will live a confused life with problems in every aspect of life if you look in history all cultures that try to stray from the values break down into worship of fake life destroying values which strip life of it's meaning (rulers, sex, drugs, tv, ect) this just leads to everyone to convey onto eachother hate distrust and a level of selfishness in which will lead to the break down of all families and friends firearms cant be blamed because ignorant people will find a weapon no matter what but if and when your ability to equal yourself to any power will lead to oppresion beacuase you give up your rights out of fear and hope that you will buy freedom live the life you were taught in schools i've lived a life away from god it's hollow you cant truly believe any religion until you see beyond the selfish view of someone like you floating on a cloud and get angry because your wishi wasnt awnsered because if you start to think about want you need over what you want it hopefully leads to a way to help your family because without your family your alone and when your alone things can control you like work and debt

Firearms are everywhere and only psycos will use them to kill other people there have never been reports on a sane experienced firearm owner with a family who is based on good religious values going otu on a rampage only medicated psycos who decided that they only need to suit themselves because they are alone therefor everything only involves them anyone who owns a firearm never needs to fear anyone because they know that they are equal and so is that in a mind of a criminal but only a normal person will obey the law and use the right of selfdefense sensibly you cant blame the actions of an indifferent few who selfishly just look where these people act in the gunfree zones all around malls schools ect the only safe place is the place where you are truly free to do whats right and no matter what anyone tells you firearms aren't bad they cant be because if they are i would have been an evil person and in jail along with the many othere people who own firearms not just the criminals which go and steal them and keep them illegaly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[LordDaishi]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myke08:
Cambodia targeted Vietnamese, not educated people....

And the Mayans died out a long time ago.

I'm doubting your sources. And in a country like the US, you'll believe your president will go crazy and start killing out people? Because your showing that gun control leads to genocide.

"Educated" is in quotations, and there are *still* Mayans in South America.

For you final statement, our government is setup to prevent such things from happening. In that same reasoning, it prevents LOTS of things from happening both good and bad. If gun control actually passed, that would be just one less hurdle in the way for the government to exterminate someone, and the cool thing is; that whole argument is actually why the US has a Second Amendment to begin with. To keep the government in check, because the US is ruled BY THE PEOPLE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

[LordDaishi]

hey look at all these UK people This is always the case with any country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec
This video doesn't need dramatic screenplay or music

[LordDaishi]

about gunfree zones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubajImOoBs&feature=related

[BTR74]

QUADRUPLE POST!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Reconning_GRSC6]

Rofl talking to urself there huh LordDaishi

[LordDaishi]

Ya

[AlphaDelta219]

after reading this whole thread my only immediate thought is this.

thank god people under the age of 18 dont actually matter when it comes to making laws, if they did we would all be screwed...


but back on the original topic. it is not guns taht are the problem. you could kill someone with anything. the real problem is problems between people and social institutions. Schools, government, religion, family, etc. Usually when there is crime it is because of a person's lack of interation with one of those. Generally speaking a person draws their morals from their environment.

if you grow up in an honest family surrounded by likeminded people, and get a good education, odds are you wont be commiting any crimes or being exposed to as much crime.

if you came from a broken home where good education is hard to get or otherwise there is no support or reward for doing well in school and the only way to succeed or prosper is through crime, you can bet that a life of crime is more likely for that person.

when drunk drivers kill people, you dont blame the car. you blame the person. how do you stop the problem? you dont get rid of cars or alcohol. improving infrastructure, creating strict drunk driving laws, rehabilition for alcoholics or other things works alot better. its more or less the same with guns.

[The_Real_Azrael]

Originally posted by LordDaishi:
hey look at all these UK people This is always the case with any country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec
This video doesn't need dramatic screenplay or music

So that sad thing about that video is I couldn't finish it. I couldn't finish it because it made me so sad and frustrated that I had to close the window out. It does make me very glad that my country is no longer aligned with England.... if we were that would really make life suck.

[Kida409]

Yeah so did i, the way they edit this is pretty dispicable the way it slides from the fox hunting ban to "where was these voices 6 years ago when they banned HANDGUNS" it's an appaling spin move. you know where they where? down on paper as a petition to lobby the gov't for a ban.
The following statistics where provided from a Parliamentary Answer session:




Number of Deaths from Firearms Injury - United Kingdom, 1994 to 2006

Figures include deaths with a Coroner's verdict of accident, suicide, homicide and undetermined intent.



Answer given on 25 October 2007



Year Number
1994 341

1995 358

<span class="ev_code_RED">1996 254</span>

1997 198

1998 229

1999 207

2000 204

2001 193

2002 181

2003 187

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">2004 191</span>
2005 185

2006 210

<span class="ev_code_RED">Introdction of firearm control</span>
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Time of fox hunting ban eg. video created</span>
as you can see that 40% increase is in none fatal gun crime. yes thats pretty terrible, but thats is due to the fact that the law rather poorly enforced.

MP Frank cook's video which was itself heavily edited neglected to mention that he, the LEADING MEMBER THAT SUPPORTS GUN CONTROL, was criticising the failure of the Gov't to sucessfully carry out the gun control laws, not the laws itself.

yet more misinformed waffle, police are not armed atall (bar the armed respnonce unit and anti-terror chaps)
disgruntled police officer talks about back in the old days when police never used Body armour because criminals never used guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif i think that pretty much explains itself. He goes on to claim that the country is not a safer place beacuse after the ban; rightly so the governemnt policy did go wrong, not because of the handgun ban, but because of lack of funding + support for the police force.

Tony Martin the guy who shot those 2 unarmed burglars while they where fleeing,yeah he got what he deserved imo, if he was threatened with his life then yes he should be allowed to respond with whatever force he precives reasonable.

[element3600]

we should change the topic to
Guns = Funs!

[maxisgamer6]

Originally posted by DAFOC:
In my book im maaking they have his thing were you cant get fully auto matic weapons and cant have a weapon that fires more than 50 rounds a miniute

Now the US tried to ban alchol and in that 12 year peroid more alchol was sold than anyother 12 year period. What do you think wil happen if they ban THE SECOND AMENDANTMENT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD


dude a barreta M9 can fire 50 rounds a minute depending on how fast you reload. and another thing where did alcohol come in at a gun control post.

[spearstrike0]

In the book Gathering Blue if a person kills another person and got caught the killer would be killed by the government. Maybe that's how it should be IRL.

[element3600]

a life for a life?
sounds fair i guess... but extremly violent

[Pathfinder_82nd]

Originally posted by element3600:
a life for a life?
sounds fair i guess... but extremly violent

It is fair, what are we going to do with them as an alternative? Put them in jail for life? I prefer not to pay for an obvious murderer's well being through my taxes (though I *do*). It suits me just fine to get rid of them.

[dynex811]

Originally posted by Pathfinder_82nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by element3600:
a life for a life?
sounds fair i guess... but extremly violent

It is fair, what are we going to do with them as an alternative? Put them in jail for life? I prefer not to pay for an obvious murderer's well being through my taxes (though I *do*). It suits me just fine to get rid of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if they're innocent. Stuff like that happens you know, then after they're dead and you find out they really didn't do it, you'd wish you put them in jail instead.

[codbrooks1989]

wow. this thread.

first thing is first. this video. A) dont be in a back alley doing sideways deals. cause you may get shot(and homi boi. for the love of god. wear a belt. you cant run from the cops if your holding up your pants) B) its what 12 am 1 am and dude is out on a bike. two guys walk up? ask any real cop.the first thing they say in a car jacking is just give up the car. C) again your in a back alley bar... ding ding ding. warning signs should go off. D) about the kid and his dad. this isnt the first time daddyo has been in the kids face. and prob when he was younger the kid got his *** handed to him a few times. so really who is fault here?

look around you. i can own a 9mm. legal and all. and the kid down the street can own a ak from the back of a dudes car. it took me 9 months to get checked out. took him 9 sec to lay out da cash. their is no such thing as a win win sit in a thing like this. guns are easy as getting M&M's from the store if you know were to look. it doesnt matter if you ban all guns. and stop people from making bullets. these young guys will still have guns and home made bullets. the only diff is people like who is on this forum wont have any way to protect themselves because the good people who obey the law cant own guns