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newhenpal
05-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Sam's recklessness and his "nothing to lose" attitude was explained as being a result of losing Sarah and later finding out that she had been murdered. One twist later and Sam is briefly reunited with his daughter and later sees the mole that caused the separation, Tom Reed, killed.

How will the character be handled now? R6V2 and GRAW 2 were straight-forward sequels, but Conviction 2 can't have Sam Bauer throwing procedure out of a window (or breaking right through them for that matter) when he has something to live for.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo
05-30-2010, 01:20 PM
He has to save his "brother" from Megiddo, who are now controlling Black Arrow, is my guess.

Compassghost
05-30-2010, 01:48 PM
Sam Fisher has a song stuck in his head and is now on the lookout for someone to cure that song-stuck-in-his-head psychopathic tendency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsI32UJwk9o

H.A.R.M.s
05-30-2010, 01:49 PM
He learnt that enemies are stupid and totally forgiving, so he can waltz through witout any tactics and stealth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

H.A.R.M.s
05-30-2010, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Compassghost:
Sam Fisher has a song stuck in his head and is now on the lookout for someone to cure that song-stuck-in-his-head psychopathic tendency. Aliens abducted him while he was off the grid, so the head implant is causing beviour change. In final mission, Sam destroys mothership and save our planet, managing to seduce gifted blond in the process. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NYC_Elite
05-30-2010, 02:01 PM
Hollywood is a thing of the past, the next Splinter Cell is going Bollywood. After Sam fiercely busts Vic out of Megiddo, he heads straight into the heart of the now Indian corporation based in Mumbai. You haven't played Splinter Cell until you've played Splinter Cell 6: A Brother's Revenge--The Musical.

H.A.R.M.s
05-30-2010, 02:48 PM
Something like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4DHllroiqM) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

kingatrock1
05-30-2010, 02:59 PM
They killed his favorite 2nd cousin (or did they??) and now sam is letting everyone know hes through being any type of stealth.

Dual wielding plasma rifles FTW!

newhenpal
05-30-2010, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
He has to save his "brother" from Megiddo, who are now controlling Black Arrow, is my guess.

The final cutscene seemed to suggest that their escape was inevitable with the proximity of the sounds Sam made going through the henchmen.

YoungsyBMX
05-30-2010, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by NYC_Elite:
Hollywood is a thing of the past, the next Splinter Cell is going Bollywood. After Sam fiercely busts Vic out of Megiddo, he heads straight into the heart of the now Indian corporation based in Mumbai. You haven't played Splinter Cell until you've played Splinter Cell 6: A Brother's Revenge--The Musical.

Jesus Christ I lol'd. You Sir, have earned a shiny new cookie.

Sarapion
05-30-2010, 03:44 PM
Sam's wife Regan was secretly alive this whole time. She is the head of Meggido, and she puts a hit out on Sam. Sam vows revenge and goes on the war path to make her pay for her betrayal. It's a mission that Sam won't likely come back from and he damn well knows it.

NYC_Elite
05-30-2010, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
Something like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4DHllroiqM) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lmfao, that trailer and everything else in this thread is just making me lol hard.

Mr.E.Bear
05-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Sam gains self awareness.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo
05-30-2010, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by newhenpal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
He has to save his "brother" from Megiddo, who are now controlling Black Arrow, is my guess.

The final cutscene seemed to suggest that their escape was inevitable with the proximity of the sounds Sam made going through the henchmen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but we're not told how long after Conviction that takes place. There has to be a substantial time difference, because the elephant story has to be told and after that I'm sure is when Sam called Vic telling him he was spending time with his daughter etc...

Obviously the next game will be about unravelling Megiddo. I reckon that as part of that process, Sam will have to save Vic (as a mission).

There has to be something to drag Sam back into action against Megiddo and what better way to get him back in than his self imposed obligation to save Vic after Black Arrow has snatched him?

Once he's saved Vic, well we have our start and I'm sure Ubisoft will patch the rest of the details with a few band-aids.

This team is obviously very enthusiastic about the "seeing into the future" style of story telling and something tells me that the parts of Conviction that have no time referencing (i.e. all of Vic's interrogation scenes) are actually taking place during Conviction 2.

XUznikSvobodyX
05-30-2010, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by newhenpal:
Sam's recklessness and his "nothing to lose" attitude was explained as being a result of losing Sarah and later finding out that she had been murdered. One twist later and Sam is briefly reunited with his daughter and later sees the mole that caused the separation, Tom Reed, killed.

How will the character be handled now? R6V2 and GRAW 2 were straight-forward sequels, but Conviction 2 can't have Sam Bauer throwing procedure out of a window (or breaking right through them for that matter) when he has something to live for.

Sam's attitude is justified in this game until the twist was reveled way to soon to understand what can be in his head.

But I think Sam's adventuring is over. A new agent may grace us in the next game, could be Sarha or maybe Sam will come back as a prequel to the events of DA...

oO_ShadowFox_Oo
05-30-2010, 08:26 PM
No, it's really not.

Sam getting angry and targeting those who he found responsible (thus operating beyond his position) is justified.

The manner in which he conducts himself in this game is completely not justified. It's reckless, stupid and frankly unbecoming of someone of his experience and his character.

Powerslave01
05-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
No, it's really not.

Sam getting angry and targeting those who he found responsible (thus operating beyond his position) is justified.

The manner in which he conducts himself in this game is completely not justified. It's reckless, stupid and frankly unbecoming of someone of his experience and his character.
The Intel gathering, I found, to be very in Sam's character. But I wish they had expanded it.

Sam was in a new project akin to PROJECTMKULTRA and has been on one huge mother****ing acid trip. he wakes up in the hospital watching the news and finds a NEW WORLD CRISIS! OH NO!

coltcat
05-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
Sam gains self awareness.
oh no! that will be end of the day.
when NSA trys to shut him down.
either he could sneak into a US missile base and launch a nuke strike to russia and waiting for ****er attack to finish his creators.
after the total nuke war , Sandono will survived and come back as the leader of resistance force of mankind.
or he could just tells Grim that the mission is too important for him to allow her to jeopardize it before throwing her into deep space.

oOSilentPwnOo
05-30-2010, 09:37 PM
I think they should just make it like at the beginning Sam wakes up and conviction was all just a ****ed up dream, and he becomes a bad *** spy again and kicks *** with his uber ninja skills. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NYC_Elite
05-30-2010, 10:27 PM
I have a good plot for the next game:

So after the success of Sam in Conviction's events, he is left traveling abroad with his team: Grim, Vic, Sarah, and some of Vic's loyal connections. A Megiddo vessel ambushes them in an attack, utterly destroying Sam & Co.'s method of transportation. Being the selfless man he is, Sam helps everyone off the vessel before it goes down. In the process, Sam is killed but his body remained just enough in tact for a shifty company seemingly out for the greater good, doing whatever it takes by any means possible, to use their superb technology to restructure Sam.

Sam is more or less in tact, however he has received a few "enhancements." Now he has retained his personality and intellect while gaining the agility of a young panther. Reluctantly indebted to this mysterious company, he helps them to take down Megiddo, and along the way, expands his crew (and reunites with a few old friends) in a last ditch attempt to save humanity.

GUInterface
05-30-2010, 11:22 PM
Will we be able to import our Sam from Conviction?
Will Vic be a love interest????

NYC_Elite
05-30-2010, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by NanoGUI:
Will we be able to import our Sam from Conviction?
Will Vic be a love interest????

Yes and yes, but you will need to do Vic's personal mission first. He left on bad terms with his son after a rocky divorce and needs to reconcile before death.

Gazdakka
05-31-2010, 05:08 AM
What will be the new justification for Sam's behavior?

He's lost it and has gone postal. SC6, here we come...

Andre202
05-31-2010, 06:33 AM
I think they want to do something like the first three games. So that the next three games SCC, SCC2, SCC3 are all connected together and at the end Sam will know who Meggido is or who the leader is and will kill him/her like Shetland.

KrAzY1337
06-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Compassghost:
Sam Fisher has a song stuck in his head and is now on the lookout for someone to cure that song-stuck-in-his-head psychopathic tendency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsI32UJwk9o That's the best thing I've seen since sliced bread.

iamthechaos
06-01-2010, 05:13 PM
He finally gets settled down with Sarah and then their new cat Alan gets mow down by a drunk driver.

kipphopopotomus
06-01-2010, 07:07 PM
Megiddo kidnaps Sarah because he hates Sam for destroying his plan, and Sam goes on crazy rampage again so it can further justify the new direction. MAYBE, the dev team will be slapped by the hand of some great person and they will bring back a lot of the old elements and Sam will be doing a lot of non-lethal takedowns and doing a lot of intelligence gathering.

Then at the end of the game out of nowhere Grim ends up being Sarah's lover and Sam has a confused look on his face when he catches them in the bedroom http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

codenameeric
06-01-2010, 08:10 PM
There is no justification for Sam to have that kind of behaviour, and there never was. We were told that he would be hell-bent on tracking down Sarah's killer, but he was actuially just running errands for Grim.

Crucify Lucifer
06-01-2010, 08:21 PM
Sarah wants to go to Ubisoft on ice, but unfortunately all of the tickets are sold out. It turns out that Meggido bought the last two tickets, and it's up to Sam and his team of Victor and Grim to thwart Meggido's evil plans of musical domination on the ice!

If he wants those tickets, he's gotta smash skulls through the ice and steathily blast his way across the ring.

codenameeric
06-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Maybe this could work... What if Sam goes completely nuts? There was already plenty of foreshadowing that this will happen: he already sees writing on walls a la Beautiful Mind, he thinks Sarah is alive, he thinks ridiculous conspiracy theories are true and he has forgotten everything about his former self. Maybe it's shell shock from the Iraq level...

NYC_Elite
06-01-2010, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by codenameeric:
Maybe this could work... What if Sam goes completely nuts? There was already plenty of foreshadowing that this will happen: he already sees writing on walls a la Beautiful Mind, he thinks Sarah is alive, he thinks ridiculous conspiracy theories are true and he has forgotten everything about his former self. Maybe it's shell shock from the Iraq level...

Of course, it all makes sense now! Years before the franchise, he suffered war traumas. All we've been playing is his rambling imagination while he inhabited an insane asylum. He convinced himself he was a covert agent, and eventually, Jack Bauer. I long for the splinter cell game where you control present day Sam, breaking out of the insane asylum, marking and executing everyone in the building. The best part? No shadows, it's all brightly lit with fluorescent lighting.

coltcat
06-01-2010, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by iamthechaos:
He finally gets settled down with Sarah and then their new cat Alan gets mow down by a drunk driver.
Brilliant!
If the death of a dog can make gunny swagger tearing down a secret government just like megiddo.
a cat should the same trick , and sam loves cats.


Of course, it all makes sense now! Years before the franchise, he suffered war traumas. All we've been playing is his rambling imagination while he inhabited an insane asylum. He convinced himself he was a covert agent, and eventually, Jack Bauer. I long for the splinter cell game where you control present day Sam, breaking out of the insane asylum, marking and executing everyone in the building. The best part? No shadows, it's all brightly lit with fluorescent lighting.
of course.
and the real world ends with he emerged out the tokyo bay at 2007 becuz of lamberts crazy plan.
he suffered decompression sickness witch in chance do bring up negative psycho effects includes confusions or memories loss.
he goes to undercover mission in his own mind after he imagined sarah is dead becuz one day lambert visited him at asylum and tell him sarah couldnt come ,
sometime after that, its the illusion created in sams bed time one day after sarah and grim visited him. wtich brings back sarah and grim to sams dream drawing board.
plus sam peeks guards in at asylum watching 24.
now he gets great material for his conviction
next time, let lambert go to see sam again and he will resurrect too.

Pigeons
06-01-2010, 11:57 PM
Seeing as how the next installment will be "Splinter Cell: ON ICE 2011" I'm guessing that Sam will get skates that are too small and seek revenge on the ice skate company that done him wrong.

SamFiction
06-05-2010, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by newhenpal:
How will the character be handled now? R6V2 and GRAW 2 were straight-forward sequels, but Conviction 2 can't have Sam Bauer throwing procedure out of a window (or breaking right through them for that matter) when he has something to live for.

Why the hell is Sarah the only thing Sam has to live for? Why is she the only thing that is keeping Sam human? What kept Sam human before she was born?

This is something I haven't quite rasped yet: why is Sam so emotionally unstable that Sarah is literally all he has to live for? Is Sam really that miserable and pathetic?

I'll be honest, I've never really bought into those essential plot points of DA anyway. But, I'll try to refute them with some old stuff.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Premise</span>: Sam Fisher's will to live, sense of decency, self respect, and sense of self preservation all stem from the fact that Sarah is alive. If she dies, so do these traits.

I disagree with this premise. . . a whole lot.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sarah Sam's only reason to live?</span>

The short answer that I can come up with is: she's not. But I'll just let him say it:

I love this country, and have devoted my life to protecting it.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sam's ability to determine right from wrong hampered by Sarah's death?</span>

The short answer is: I have no idea. Sam has always had a knack for doing what's right. . . before DA at least.

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/splintercell/doubleagent/jbahq4/2.jpg

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Fisher. . . I said leave the body. . . we don't have the means to extract him. . .
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Just because he's dead doesn't mean I need to leave him hanging here like a piece of meat.
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Don't get too connected Fisher. I need you to stay rational.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: You can spare thirty seconds for some simple dignity.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: You don't even exist, Fisher. . . You can't get a medal for this.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Medals don't help me sleep at night, Lambert.

I guess Sam sleeps easy these days, regardless of what he does. Maybe he felt better after shooting Tom Reed.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would Sam lose his self respect because of Sarah's death?</span>

My short answer: Maybe a little. I'd tend to think he'd recover soon after (physically, not emotionally). He tries not to dwell on the past too much though:

I'm not the kind of guy to dwell on the past

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would the death of Sarah cause Sam to become reckless?</span>

Short answer: I have serious doubts. Lest we all forget a crucial point in Sam's profile:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Though fully aware of and confident of his combat abilities, Fisher understands that his survival has often been a gift of chance. He knows he is human and fallible, and does not want to die. </span>

All of this is just MHO anyway.

stealth1276
06-05-2010, 11:54 PM
Well said. Hopefully, this next game we will be back to classic infiltration where noone knows your coming, unlike Conviction, where all the lines imclude Fisher taunts and we have full control of the lethality or passivity of Sam's combat moves. Heres hoping anyways!

GUInterface
06-06-2010, 12:37 AM
Why do people keep talking about Sam's behavior in Conviction as if it's something unholy?
He killed his best friend and his daughter got killed. It makes sense he'd be emotionally unstable.

Out of the questionable design decisions and incoherent plotline Conviction has, Sam's behavior is one of the few things in the game that makes sense.

sam2000_290
06-06-2010, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by SamFiction:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by newhenpal:
How will the character be handled now? R6V2 and GRAW 2 were straight-forward sequels, but Conviction 2 can't have Sam Bauer throwing procedure out of a window (or breaking right through them for that matter) when he has something to live for.

Why the hell is Sarah the only thing Sam has to live for? Why is she the only thing that is keeping Sam human? What kept Sam human before she was born?

This is something I haven't quite rasped yet: why is Sam so emotionally unstable that Sarah is literally all he has to live for? Is Sam really that miserable and pathetic?

I'll be honest, I've never really bought into those essential plot points of DA anyway. But, I'll try to refute them with some old stuff.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Premise</span>: Sam Fisher's will to live, sense of decency, self respect, and sense of self preservation all stem from the fact that Sarah is alive. If she dies, so do these traits.

I disagree with this premise. . . a whole lot.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sarah Sam's only reason to live?</span>

The short answer that I can come up with is: she's not. But I'll just let him say it:

I love this country, and have devoted my life to protecting it.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sam's ability to determine right from wrong hampered by Sarah's death?</span>

The short answer is: I have no idea. Sam has always had a knack for doing what's right. . . before DA at least.

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/splintercell/doubleagent/jbahq4/2.jpg

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Fisher. . . I said leave the body. . . we don't have the means to extract him. . .
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Just because he's dead doesn't mean I need to leave him hanging here like a piece of meat.
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Don't get too connected Fisher. I need you to stay rational.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: You can spare thirty seconds for some simple dignity.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: You don't even exist, Fisher. . . You can't get a medal for this.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Medals don't help me sleep at night, Lambert.

I guess Sam sleeps easy these days, regardless of what he does. Maybe he felt better after shooting Tom Reed.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would Sam lose his self respect because of Sarah's death?</span>

My short answer: Maybe a little. I'd tend to think he'd recover soon after (physically, not emotionally). He tries not to dwell on the past too much though:

I'm not the kind of guy to dwell on the past

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would the death of Sarah cause Sam to become reckless?</span>

Short answer: I have serious doubts. Lest we all forget a crucial point in Sam's profile:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Though fully aware of and confident of his combat abilities, Fisher understands that his survival has often been a gift of chance. He knows he is human and fallible, and does not want to die. </span>

All of this is just MHO anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sarah is his daughter. If you had a daughter or son, wouldn't she/he humanize you? Wouldn't you care about your own child? Wouldn't you do anything to get your child back? Wouldn't you get emotionally unstable if you know your child is killed? Look at the movie, John Q, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by sam2000_290:
Sarah is his daughter. If you had a daughter or son, wouldn't she/he humanize you?

Oh right, I see what you mean:

Take Tarzan, kill Jane. Now what's left?
Just some angry apeman.

I'm glad Ubisoft was able to demonstrate this for us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

On a more serious note, I think my questions were valid, and until they're answered for me, they stand.

By the way, I don't have kids. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Also, I'll look into John Q.

sameer_monier
06-06-2010, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by sam2000_290:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SamFiction:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by newhenpal:
How will the character be handled now? R6V2 and GRAW 2 were straight-forward sequels, but Conviction 2 can't have Sam Bauer throwing procedure out of a window (or breaking right through them for that matter) when he has something to live for.

Why the hell is Sarah the only thing Sam has to live for? Why is she the only thing that is keeping Sam human? What kept Sam human before she was born?

This is something I haven't quite rasped yet: why is Sam so emotionally unstable that Sarah is literally all he has to live for? Is Sam really that miserable and pathetic?

I'll be honest, I've never really bought into those essential plot points of DA anyway. But, I'll try to refute them with some old stuff.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Premise</span>: Sam Fisher's will to live, sense of decency, self respect, and sense of self preservation all stem from the fact that Sarah is alive. If she dies, so do these traits.

I disagree with this premise. . . a whole lot.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sarah Sam's only reason to live?</span>

The short answer that I can come up with is: she's not. But I'll just let him say it:

I love this country, and have devoted my life to protecting it.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Why is Sam's ability to determine right from wrong hampered by Sarah's death?</span>

The short answer is: I have no idea. Sam has always had a knack for doing what's right. . . before DA at least.

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/splintercell/doubleagent/jbahq4/2.jpg

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Fisher. . . I said leave the body. . . we don't have the means to extract him. . .
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Just because he's dead doesn't mean I need to leave him hanging here like a piece of meat.
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Don't get too connected Fisher. I need you to stay rational.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: You can spare thirty seconds for some simple dignity.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: You don't even exist, Fisher. . . You can't get a medal for this.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Medals don't help me sleep at night, Lambert.

I guess Sam sleeps easy these days, regardless of what he does. Maybe he felt better after shooting Tom Reed.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would Sam lose his self respect because of Sarah's death?</span>

My short answer: Maybe a little. I'd tend to think he'd recover soon after (physically, not emotionally). He tries not to dwell on the past too much though:

I'm not the kind of guy to dwell on the past

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Would the death of Sarah cause Sam to become reckless?</span>

Short answer: I have serious doubts. Lest we all forget a crucial point in Sam's profile:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Though fully aware of and confident of his combat abilities, Fisher understands that his survival has often been a gift of chance. He knows he is human and fallible, and does not want to die. </span>

All of this is just MHO anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sarah is his daughter. If you had a daughter or son, wouldn't she/he humanize you? Wouldn't you care about your own child? Wouldn't you do anything to get your child back? Wouldn't you get emotionally unstable if you know your child is killed? Look at the movie, John Q, and you'll see what I'm talking about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you beat me to him, i just want to add something, from what i see, Sam being so careful in his job and trying to save the world naturally there was part of him doing it for Sarah not only for his love to his country, and you can see that in SC1 when Nikolades streak america with his attack and Sam is asking about Lambert about his daughter, he wanted to go back to her but Lambert was his best friend and said to him that he is sending a team to her

when you have a daughter especially if you only have a daughter (no wife, parents, or even friends,...etc) she will be the only thing that makes you good in your life, all the right choices you will made for her's sake not yours, she WILL be your only concern and if she is killed you will fight the whole world for her, and to seek revenge, even if you will die in the process cause you know you lost the one thing you care about

Sam in conviction really shows himself, the human self of him, not the dark humor part that he express behind enemy lines to decrease the tension of the mission on him

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
when you have a daughter especially if you only have a daughter (no wife, parents, or even friends,...etc) she will be the only thing that makes you good in your life

He did have friends. He shot one. The other was the victim of a retcon. And don't forget Coen and Redding, because Ubisoft did.

As for parents, I quote:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Wilkes</span>: This is as close as we get. Are you sure you're cool with the details? This last minute stuff bugs me out.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: I'll figure it out.
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Wilkes</span>: Well, be careful.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: I've already got a mother, Wilkes.

sameer_monier
06-06-2010, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by SamFiction:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sameer_monier:
when you have a daughter especially if you only have a daughter (no wife, parents, or even friends,...etc) she will be the only thing that makes you good in your life

He did have friends. He shot one. The other was the victim of a retcon. And don't forget Coen and Redding, because Ubisoft did.

As for parents, I quote:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Wilkes</span>: This is as close as we get. Are you sure you're cool with the details? This last minute stuff bugs me out.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: I'll figure it out.
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Wilkes</span>: Well, be careful.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: I've already got a mother, Wilkes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

really !!!
that was clearly a joke, there is nothing to confirm it, he didn't mention it or talked about it

and about the friends he shoot a bad one (Shetland) and that's okay, but shooting his best friend (Lambert) that was hard and really affects you deep inside

Sam's change is a right thing, it had to be done, it would have been stupid to make Sam remain the same after all the **** he been through, they did right with him

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
really !!!
that was clearly a joke, there is nothing to confirm it, he didn't mention it or talked about it

Is there something to disprove it? As far as I know, I don't know why Sam Fisher would joke about having a mother, if he actually doesn't.

I doubt he was lying, because he doesn't care for lies:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">He has not only survived, but also excelled in the field of covert operations through hard work, insatiable curiosity, and brutal honesty. He has little time for polite niceties and even less for lies. </span>


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
and about the friends he shoot a bad one (Shetland) and that's okay, but shooting his best friend (Lambert) that was hard and really affects you deep inside

Then why did he do it? Any good reason why Sam Fisher would shoot his best friend?


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
Sam's change is a right thing, it had to be done, it would have been stupid to make Sam remain the same after all the **** he been through, they did right with him


Why would it have been stupid? I've seen more stupid crap from Sam after the change then ever before. I won't fault you for liking it though.

sameer_monier
06-06-2010, 11:14 AM
Is there something to disprove it? As far as I know, I don't know why Sam Fisher would joke about having a mother, if he actually doesn't.

I doubt he was lying, because he doesn't care for lies:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">He has not only survived, but also excelled in the field of covert operations through hard work, insatiable curiosity, and brutal honesty. He has little time for polite niceties and even less for lies. </span>

There is also nothing to prove it, other than this line which appears to me as a joke



Then why did he do it? Any good reason why Sam Fisher would shoot his best friend?

he had to do so in DA, for his cover's sake, he had to make that hard decision



Why would it have been stupid? I've seen more stupid crap from Sam after the change then ever before. I won't fault you for liking it though.

how would you feel living alone, knowing that you lost your daughter (the only thing that matters in your life) and you shoot your best friend too, how would that make you feel ?!

i like the new Sam because it was going in right direction, he was angry and feeling betrayed, .....etc, and i want to know how he would look like in SC6, but for C it had nothing wring with Sam, actually the whole personal story made more depth for me in the game

Yabab_2
06-06-2010, 11:23 AM
My guess? He experimented the Jack Bauer way, now he can't get enough of it!!

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
There is also nothing to prove it, other than this line which appears to me as a joke

Then you can't say he doesn't have parents.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
how would you feel living alone, knowing that you lost your daughter (the only thing that matters in your life) and you shoot your best friend too, how would that make you feel ?!

Well, for one thing, I wouldn't shoot my best friend. As for Fisher living alone, he chooses to live that way.

I'll be honest -- I'm not the easiest guy to be friends with. I'm tend to lay low, and don't really care much for small talk. Besides, when you're an operative in Third Echelon, the more friends you have, the more dangerous things get.

Fisher's always been content to live alone, even when Sarah went off to college. I present an excerpt from his profile in SAR.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Now, even outside of work, he is most comfortable on the fringes of society, keenly observant but still removed. </span>



Originally posted by sameer_monier:
he had to do so in DA, for his cover's sake, he had to make that hard decision

He didn't have to kill Lambert. Remember, this is Sam Fisher. He'd spent the last four years sneaking around places for Third Echelon. Why couldn't he do it here? The fact of the matter is, he could have. Fisher could have, and would have spared Lambert IMHO.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
i like the new Sam because it was going in right direction, he was angry and feeling betrayed, .....etc, and i want to know how he would look like in SC6, but for C it had nothing wring with Sam, actually the whole personal story made more depth for me in the game

That's good. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

*EDIT* I screwed up this post a little >> fixed

sameer_monier
06-06-2010, 11:52 AM
Then you can't say he doesn't have parents.

neither you can say that he has http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



Well, for one thing, I wouldn't shoot my best friend. As for Fisher living alone, he chooses to live that way.

I'll be honest -- I'm not the easiest guy to be friends with. I'm tend to lay low, and don't really care much for small talk. Besides, when you're an operative in Third Echelon, the more friends you have, the more dangerous things get.

Fisher's always been content to live alone, even when Sarah went off to college. I present an excerpt from his profile in SAR.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Now, even outside of work, he is most comfortable on the fringes of society, keenly observant but still removed. </span>


He is alone YES, but he had people to care about him around, being alone is not about not having any one around but about not having any one at all, Sam had Sarah, Lambert, Grim, Coen, and even Shetland, but when he reached C he had lost all of them, he lost every one connected to him



He didn't have to kill Lambert. Remember, this is Sam Fisher. He'd spent the last four years sneaking around places for Third Echelon. Why couldn't he do it here? The fact of the matter is, he could have. Fisher could have, and would have spared Lambert IMHO.

you got me there for a sec http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but then i remembered, there was a camera, and you have to think of the consequences, if he shoot Jamie, every one would know that he is a traitor, he will have to protect Lambert and help him get out of there, maybe by then Emile would have locked the place down, or even worse would have triggered the bomb to go off and escape leaving Fisher to face the consequences without even being able to do anything



That's good. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
thank you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, i hope in SC6 Sam will satisfy both of us



*EDIT* I screwed up this post a little >> fixed
didn't notice that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif all i saw was a good discussion

Falzar
06-06-2010, 12:18 PM
In my opinion Sam fisher’s behavior in splinter cell conviction can be justified because first he learns that his daughter is dead (he raised her by alone after her mother died between 1999-2000) then third echelon told him to kill his best’s friend (Lambert) then he learned that his daughter was murdered not just killed by an accident…so he wants revenge and nothing else….so yes Sam fisher is not a spy anymore he does not care if they catch him or not all he wants is to find the murderer of his daughter and put a bullet in his brain…for more information go play splinter cell conviction (the first splinter cell that has a solid story)…oh yeah I am a fan of the splinter cell series and I loved splinter cell conviction…..

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
He is alone YES, but he had people to care about him around, being alone is not about not having any one around but about not having any one at all, Sam had Sarah, Lambert, Grim, Coen, and even Shetland, but when he reached C he had lost all of them, he lost every one connected to him

No one's talking about what happened to Sam. It was made very clear in DA and C that Sam was getting no love from Ubisoft. This very thread is speaking of the justification for Sam's actions. I'll speak more on that below.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
you got me there for a sec http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but then i remembered, there was a camera, and you have to think of the consequences, if he shoot Jamie, every one would know that he is a traitor, he will have to protect Lambert and help him get out of there,

Really? He does so well blasting his way out of every situation in Conviction, why not here? The reality is, the gameplay didn't need justified yet. In Conviction, it did (and still does IMO).

But, on a more serious note, I've shot Jamie. EVERY time I play DA, I shoot Jamie. And you know what? I spend my time sneaking through the JBA HQ incapacitating everyone.

And you mention that he would, "have to protect Lambert" and you say it like it would be a burden for him. It wouldn't be, not for the Sam Fisher I know at least. An interesting trend I've noticed over the years is: Sam protects his friends.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: Milan Nedich. . . Echelon’s got nothing. . . he doesn’t even exist.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Hm. . . well whoever he is, he’s playing both sides. We need to inform Shetland.
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: No can do, Sam. We can’t compromise OPSEC for private interests.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Fine. . . but if I find Nedich, it will be less of a problem.
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: Admirable of you to protect your friend, but —
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: You said he doesn’t exist. . . I’m just correcting a bureaucratic error.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
maybe by then Emile would have locked the place down, or even worse would have triggered the bomb to go off and escape leaving Fisher to face the consequences without even being able to do anything

Actually, Emile did lock the place down. People were boarding the place up from the beginning. But, Fisher knew that SWAT was right outside. Unfortunately, shooting Lambert lowers his (Lambert's) survival rate drastically. It doesn't matter if SWAT gets to Lambert if he's already dead.

By the way, Emile never planned to escape.


Originally posted by Falzar:
then third echelon told him to kill his best’s friend (Lambert)

Where did you get this? From what Vic said?


Originally posted by Falzar:
so he wants revenge and nothing else….

My Tarzan analogy was that good, wasn't it.



Originally posted by Falzar:
so yes Sam fisher is not a spy anymore he

Then why call it Splinter Cell?

I'll finish with a quote from PT:

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Inside that submarine you're going to be outmanned, and outgunned.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: That's everywhere I go.

LitLikeABrothel
06-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Sam and Lambert were NEVER best friends. It was never suggested that their relationship ever extended beyond the handling of Fisher's missions, and I don't believe they could ever become friends, as that would jeapordise their professionalism during missions.

If anything, knowing Sam he would probably detest Lambert for sitting in an office all day while he does the real work.

sameer_monier
06-06-2010, 02:32 PM
Really? He does so well blasting his way out of every situation in Conviction, why not here? The reality is, the gameplay didn't need justified yet. In Conviction, it did.

in conviction, every one he cared about was dead, he only needed answers (he felt alot of anger) so he did it his own way not caring about the protocols unlike DA



And you mention that he would, "have to protect Lambert" and you say it like it would be a burden for him. It wouldn't be, not for the Sam Fisher I know, at least. An interesting trend I've noticed over the years is: Sam protects his friends.

so you kill Jamie, every body know you are a traitor, so the simple act is to rush into the room and kill, in DA (very few came across the room) they were supposed to be crowded there trying to kill you, and you are in a small room, with Lambert being hurt and bleeding, so how would you survive ?!, even if you are Sam Fisher



Actually, Emile did lock the place down. People were boarding the place up from the beginning. But, Fisher knew that SWAT was right outside. Unfortunately, shooting Lambert lowers his survival rate drastically.

from SWAT yes, but to do a better thing, to save america he had to shot Lambert (which i kinda felt sad about, i liked how Lambert was always in touch with Sam)



Originally posted by Falzar:
so yes Sam fisher is not a spy anymore he

Then why call it Splinter Cell? [/QUOTE]

cause it still have Sam Fisher, 3rd E, and other SC agents too



I'll finish with a quote from PT:

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Inside that submarine you're going to be outmanned, and outgunned.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: That's everywhere I go. [/QUOTE]

just like Conviction http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif except the out gunned part http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif cause finally he could use the enemies weapon, and GOD bless the weapons stash http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SamFiction
06-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by LitLikeABrothel:
Sam and Lambert were NEVER best friends. It was never suggested that their relationship ever extended beyond the handling of Fisher's missions, and I don't believe they could ever become friends, as that would jeapordise their professionalism during missions.

I disagree. As far as I can tell, Fisher and Lambert were more than just professional acquaintances.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: I hope you don't mind, I told him some of your stories from Kuwait.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: We're all friends here.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: That's the last microphone, Fisher. Otomo will be happy.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Otomo doesn't seem like the happy type.
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: Ah. . . It's just that old samurai zanshin. . . he's really nice in person.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Hmm. . . I've heard people say the same thing about Lambert. . .
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Grim </span>: What does that mean? Lambert's nice. . .
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: How many of his ex-wives have you spoken to?


Originally posted by LitLikeABrothel:
If anything, knowing Sam he would probably detest Lambert for sitting in an office all day while he does the real work.

What gave you that idea?

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Great, I love bureaucrats.

Also, Montreal insinuated that they had a friendship in the old-gen DA (not that I care) by having Sam say, "sorry, old friend. . ." I don't have the quote though. I'll have to go replay it.

I bet you're going to say the same about Grim, right?


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
in conviction, every one he cared about was dead, he only needed answers (he felt alot of anger) so he did it his own way not caring about the protocols unlike DA

Tarzan? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif By the way, Sam's "own way" is this:

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Combat, espionage, and constant training have defined his adult life; his tactical experience has become part of his instinct.</span>


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
so you kill Jamie, every body know you are a traitor, so the simple act is to rush into the room and kill, in DA (very few came across the room) they were supposed to be crowded there trying to kill you, and you are in a small room, with Lambert being hurt and bleeding, so how would you survive ?!, even if you are Sam Fisher.

I'm not sure I understand.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
from SWAT yes, but to do a better thing, to save america he had to shot Lambert (which i kinda felt sad about, i liked how Lambert was always in touch with Sam)

I saved America and Lambert when I played the game.

NYSP0186
06-06-2010, 06:52 PM
Are we positive that Sam is freeing Vic? It might be another agent, or even multiple agents. It might even be a friend of Kestrels, another Voron agent. Hell it might even be Archer & Kestrel themselves! (I'm not convinced they're dead yet).

Anyway, there are many possible storylines available. (they all work without SF too)

sam2000_290
06-06-2010, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by NYSP0186:
Are we positive that Sam is freeing Vic? It might be another agent, or even multiple agents. It might even be a friend of Kestrels, another Voron agent. Hell it might even be Archer & Kestrel themselves! (I'm not convinced they're dead yet).

Anyway, there are many possible storylines available. (they all work without SF too)

Well, who else would go rescue Vic? Sam is the only one that knows him and involved with him. Archer and Kestrel, well, it can't be them. Then that would screw up the storyline, even if they aren't dead.

GUInterface
06-07-2010, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by SamFiction:
Words

I'm not really sure what the point of this argument is: You're asking for justifications on why Fisher acts like he does in Conviction, yet your only answer to each post is excerpts from the Wikipedia entry on the character. Why? Surely you should know that most of it is written by fans.

As for Fisher saving Lambert and the USA in your playthrough of Double Agent: that's what you did as a player. A good in-universe explanation of Sam's actions would be what sameer_monier mentioned: Sam would've had no idea of the consequences his actions would've had if he had shot Lambert, Emile could've detonated the bombs, he could've gotten killed, blah blah.

Now that Fisher found out his daughter is still alive and he has something to live for, we'll hopefully see him return to his CT persona in the next game.

Despite the action nature of Conviction it still focused mostly on stealth takedowns as direct attacks would usually result in death. I believe the fact that it encourages stealth makes it worthy of being called a Splinter Cell title despite its shortcomings.


So, yeah, video games.

SamFiction
06-07-2010, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by NanoGUI:
I'm not really sure what the point of this argument is: You're asking for justifications on why Fisher acts like he does in Conviction, yet your only answer to each post is excerpts from the Wikipedia entry on the character. Why? Surely you should know that most of it is written by fans.

I've used absolutely nothing that I haven't typed up myself (not a thing from Wikipedia), and everything I use is taken directly from the Splinter Cell video games (besides Sam's blog).

This entire thread is about justifying Sam's actions, right?

I only draw my conclusions from what I feel is in character for Sam Fisher. After having played the first three games, I feel I know him enough to realize that he is totally unrecognizable in Conviction, and only partially recognizable in DA (even though this is not disputed).

I stand up for who I have evidenced Fisher to be (his character), and I use evidence to support my claims as best I can.


Originally posted by NanoGUI:
As for Fisher saving Lambert and the USA in your playthrough of Double Agent: that's what you did as a player. A good in-universe explanation of Sam's actions would be what sameer_monier mentioned: Sam would've had no idea of the consequences his actions would've had if he had shot Lambert, Emile could've detonated the bombs, he could've gotten killed, blah blah.

That's never stopped Sam Fisher from doing the right thing before. Oh, does he just not do that sort of thing anymore?

Wait, I thought this Sam had nothing to live for in DA? Why would Fisher even give a crap about dying, or about Lambert, or the mission for that matter? If he is that distraught he should probably just go back home and start picking fights out in the street again.


Originally posted by NanoGUI:
Now that Fisher found out his daughter is still alive and he has something to live for, we'll hopefully see him return to his CT persona in the next game.

I have my serious doubts. This thread is actually about what will justify Sam's reckless behavior in Conviction 2, because we all know it's here to stay. The fact that Sam has "nothing to lose" in Conviction was taped on to fit the gameplay. What will be taped on next?


Originally posted by NanoGUI:
Despite the action nature of Conviction it still focused mostly on stealth takedowns as direct attacks would usually result in death. I believe the fact that it encourages stealth makes it worthy of being called a Splinter Cell title despite its shortcomings.

The beauty of Conviction is that people have to justify it as a Splinter Cell title. I'm not going to claim it isn't, but you probably know my opinion.

sameer_monier
06-07-2010, 08:10 AM
This entire thread is about justifying Sam's actions, right?

I only draw my conclusions from what I feel is in character for Sam Fisher. After having played the first three games, I feel I know him enough to realize that he is totally unrecognizable in Conviction, and only partially recognizable in DA (even though this is not disputed).

I stand up for who I have evidenced Fisher to be (his character), and I use evidence to support my claims as best I can.

my Sam is diffrent than yours, for example I killed Dalhia, I shot Shetland in the head, I didn't save the pilotes, I did diffrent things than what you did

so it is diffrent how we don't understand the character the same, while i am always sure to put myself in Sam's shoes to think what to do, i don't think what Sam would think he should do



That's never stopped Sam Fisher from doing the right thing before. Oh, does he just not do that sort of thing anymore?

he never faced such a delicate situation, there also another point Moses was in the middle of the sea with another bomb Emile could have just called him to detonate the bomb
(NanoGUI explained the part that you didn't understand in my previous post)



Wait, I thought this Sam had nothing to live for in DA? Why would Fisher even give a crap about dying, or about Lambert, or the mission for that matter? If he is that distraught he should probably just go back home and start picking fights out in the street again.

simple answer to that Lambert was his best friend, and Sam thought Sarah was killed in an ACCIDENT, and the fight in the street was to get him into prison (i think), and still not having anyone around doesn't mean that you won't care about your best friend Lambert and that you can shot innocent people (there is always an X on the people in C, making it clear that Sam would never hurt them and you can make sure of that in his first lines in the game
Grim : are you carrying ?!
Sam : yes but i would rather not risk a fire fight with one of those civilian around



I have my serious doubts. This thread is actually about what will justify Sam's reckless behavior in Conviction 2, because we all know it's here to stay. The fact that Sam has "nothing to lose" in Conviction was taped on to fit the gameplay. What will be taped on next?

we still don't know what will happen in C2, maybe Megiddo will kill Sarah this time, who knows ?!


PS. sorry for my late response i am having exams and it is so hard to check the forum so much :S

SamFiction
06-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
my Sam is diffrent than yours, for example I killed Dalhia, I shot Shetland in the head, I didn't save the pilotes, I did diffrent things than what you did

Not by much, I shot Dahlia dead. And Shetland? I put one right between his eyes. Sameer, I hope you don't think I'm trying to represent a Sam Fisher with no backbone. It's true that Sam Fisher goes out of his way to do the right thing, but that isn't to say that he doesn't kill when it's required of him, because he does. He's a soldier.

But I'll let him say it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX2ON3GL9o4&feature=PlayList&p=6A3D29AC0FA16352&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=3).

After watching that trailer, you're likely thinking, "Oh yeah. Sam would totally kill Lambert." Look closer and you'll notice that the only people Sam kills are mercernaries and terrorists. The big difference between Lambert and just about any other person Sam has ever killed (at least in the first three games), is that Lambert was an innocent man, and Fisher's best friend.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: The plane is too badly damaged to recover the data. You need to fall back and designate the target for an air-strike. Use the structure down the street for your platform.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Let me get the pilots to safety first.
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: We don’t have a lot of time, Sam. An NKA recovery team is en route.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Are you ordering me to leave these guys here and call in an air-strike?
<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: I’m telling you what the objective is. I’m trusting you to complete it. You have your orders.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Fisher. . . if you compromise this mission for those men. . .
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Save it Irving. . . you gave me my orders already.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Alright Fisher, good job. He should be safe from the blast. Designate the wreckage with your EEV.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Sam. . . you need to designate the - -
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: No point in rescuing one and leaving the other.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: You don’t even exist, Fisher. . . you can’t get a medal for this.
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Fisher</span>: Medals don’t help me sleep at night, Lambert.

This is by far my favorite example of Fisher doing the right thing in spite of the mission. The entire point of DA was to blur the lines of right and wrong, anyway.

The blurring was just too much for new Fisher I guess.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
so it is diffrent how we don't understand the character the same, while i am always sure to put myself in Sam's shoes to think what to do, i don't think what Sam would think he should do

No. I do my best not to apply my own characteristics to Sam Fisher. It's easy to do if you're not careful. As far as I'm concerned, he's just the victim of bad writing. Things could have easily happened differently, but they didn't.

Suppose the canon had been that Fisher had saved Lambert? Nobody would be giving any of this a second thought.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
he never faced such a delicate situation, there also another point Moses was in the middle of the sea with another bomb Emile could have just called him to detonate the bomb
(NanoGUI explained the part that you didn't understand in my previous post)

Fisher has faced plenty of delicate situations before.

Anyway, I did all three. I saved Lambert, disarmed Emile's bomb, and disarmed Moss's bomb.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
simple answer to that Lambert was his best friend, and Sam thought Sarah was killed in an ACCIDENT, and the fight in the street was to get him into prison (i think),

Fisher became a bank robber to get into prison.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100101105141/splintercell/images/3/3e/Sam_Fisher_sketch.jpg

The fighting out in the street was just new sam's way of grieving. Same goes for mirror punching.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
and still not having anyone around doesn't mean that you won't care about your best friend Lambert and that you can shot innocent people (there is always an X on the people in C, making it clear that Sam would never hurt them and you can make sure of that in his first lines in the game
Grim : are you carrying ?!
Sam : yes but i would rather not risk a fire fight with one of those civilian around

Yeah, we can't have a copy of MW2, can we. I wonder if new Sam would shoot innocence to protect his cover like Pvt. Allan did. I mean, if you're willing to shoot your best friend, you'd probably be willing to shoot just about anybody.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
we still don't know what will happen in C2, maybe Megiddo will kill Sarah this time, who knows ?!

Sounds like something Ubi would do, doesn't it.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
PS. sorry for my late response i am having exams and it is so hard to check the forum so much :S

I hope you get an A+

insanity76
06-07-2010, 12:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
we still don't know what will happen in C2, maybe Megiddo will kill Sarah this time, who knows ?!



Sounds like something Ubi would do, doesn't it.

Oh god I can see it now .. Conviction 2 opens up with Sam & Sarah some place and suddenly she gets shot in the head, Sam chases down the killer super fast Lincoln Memorial style then it ends with the super cool Malta bathroom scene Redux, and we're right back at square 1 with Fisher using his super sexy stealth to avenge her death and bring down Megiddo.

sameer_monier
06-07-2010, 12:48 PM
Not by much, I shot Dahlia dead. And Shetland? I put one right between his eyes. Sameer, I hope you don't think I'm trying to represent a Sam Fisher with no backbone. It's true that Sam Fisher goes out of his way to do the right thing, but that isn't to say that he doesn't kill when it's required of him, because he does. He's a soldier.

Exactly i agree with you, he is a soldier with morality, i didn't know that i could spare Dalia's life until i read it here in the forum, cause i thought like a soldier that Lambert knows more so he is right i have to shot her, but i will try not shotting her next time to see what happens, and hey i am not saying any thing about creating a Sam Fisher with no backbone we are just exchanging thoughts



But I'll let him say it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX2ON3GL9o4&feature=PlayList&p=6A3D29AC0FA16352&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=3).

After watching that trailer, you're likely thinking, "Oh yeah. Sam would totally kill Lambert." Look closer and you'll notice that the only people Sam kills are mercernaries and terrorists. The big difference between Lambert and just about any other person Sam has ever killed (at least in the first three games), is that Lambert was an innocent man, and Fisher's best friend.

Even in C he didn't kill innocent people, black arrow (merc) 3rd E (soldiers who betrayed their country) who else was there ?!

and in DA, I know that being a DA will always put you in a morality choice you have to do, that's why you always have a choice, even with lambert



This is by far my favorite example of Fisher doing the right thing in spite of the mission.
same problem with me, i never thought that i could do that that's why i heard " God forgive me " line



No. I do my best not to apply my own characteristics to Sam Fisher. It's easy to do if you're not careful. As far as I'm concerned, he's just the victim of bad writing. Things could have easily happened differently, but they didn't.

I put myself in his shoes to feel the reality and what i would do in that situation being Sam, but i agree there has been some bad writing but i still like how things went, even with DA



Suppose the canon had been that Fisher had saved Lambert? Nobody would be giving any of this a second thought.

Agree yet still we never know



Fisher has faced plenty of delicate situations before.

Anyway, I did all three. I saved Lambert, disarmed Emile's bomb, and disarmed Moss's bomb.


because the game enables you, but in reality 90% you wouldn't be able to, that's why i shot lambert even though it hurts



Fisher became a bank robber to get into prison.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100101105141/splintercell/images/3/3e/Sam_Fisher_sketch.jpg

that's new, thanks for the intel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



The fighting out in the street was just new sam's way of grieving.
are you sure of that ?!, got anything to justfy it ?!, i mean picking up fights in a bar i can swallow that, put fighting in the street with a machine gun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif



Same goes for mirror punching.
i think that is out of depression over the death of his daughter, after all the police captured him during the fight in the street and took him to prison, so the mirror punch can't be because of that street fighting



Yeah, we can't have a copy of MW2, can we. I wonder if new Sam would shoot innocence to protect his cover like Pvt. Allan did. I mean, if you're willing to shoot your best friend, you'd probably be willing to shoot just about anybody.

not exactly, if i work like Sam, then i know that the job requires sacrifice and that my friend knows of it (as long as there is no other way around) but killing innocent people, alot of them is wrong, unless there is no other way



Sounds like something Ubi would do, doesn't it.
yeah i am curious about it too



I hope you get an A+

thank you, when i finish i have a theory around Kobin, Sarah, and Sam, maybe we will be able to discuss that

oO_ShadowFox_Oo
06-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by NanoGUI:
Why do people keep talking about Sam's behavior in Conviction as if it's something unholy?
He killed his best friend and his daughter got killed. It makes sense he'd be emotionally unstable.

Out of the questionable design decisions and incoherent plotline Conviction has, Sam's behavior is one of the few things in the game that makes sense.

No it doesn't, not if you have any idea what sort of person Sam is.

sameer_monier
06-07-2010, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by insanity76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
we still don't know what will happen in C2, maybe Megiddo will kill Sarah this time, who knows ?!



Sounds like something Ubi would do, doesn't it.

Oh god I can see it now .. Conviction 2 opens up with Sam & Sarah some place and suddenly she gets shot in the head, Sam chases down the killer super fast Lincoln Memorial style then it ends with the super cool Malta bathroom scene Redux, and we're right back at square 1 with Fisher using his super sexy stealth to avenge her death and bring down Megiddo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh come on, open up a little bit, this is C2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, so here how it goes, Sam, Sarah and Vic are sitting in the house chatting and remembering some old memories, when Sam hears military foot steps and some reloading guns, and at that sec. 2 mercenaries storm into the room, but Sam and Vic beat the crap out of them, yet that's when some sniper begins to shot them from the building across the street, and Sam tells Sarah to stay down and to Vic to take care of his daughter, and then he leaves the apartment, he finds 3 other guys but before any one even think to shot he M&E them, then he he leaves the building, go across the street, start sneaking through the building where the sniper is, he don't want to alert him to his presence, so he has to sneak by, and then Sam finds the sniper, interrogate him, and knows the Megiddo send him, and the story continues with Sam knowing that he have to stop Megiddo in order to have a peaceful life with his daughter ..................... to be continued

so what do you think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ?!, there is alot of possibility for next SC

Falzar
06-07-2010, 02:12 PM
I think that we may see again fisher to travel all over the world…because when he interrogates Lucius Galliard he tells him that mediggo has connections from all over the world…maybe he will get help from Grim (maybe now she is the new director of third echelon)..or even Sam fisher will get splinter cell equipment and go around the world to find information about mediggo that is planning to set the world war 3 maybe…..

SamFiction
06-07-2010, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by sameer_monier:
Even in C he didn't kill innocent people, black arrow (merc) 3rd E (soldiers who betrayed their country) who else was there ?!

Well then it's a good thing hordes and hordes of people betrayed their country. Wouldn't want new Sam to miss his combat fix.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
and in DA, I know that being a DA will always put you in a morality choice you have to do, that's why you always have a choice, even with lambert

The canon is that Sam capped Lambert. The actual choice players made is irrelevant now. Either way, IMO the writing shows a gross misunderstanding of the real Sam Fisher.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
same problem with me, i never thought that i could do that that's why i heard " God forgive me " line

What do you suppose helps new Fisher sleep at night with Lambert on his conscience (assuming this new one has one)? DA never really displayed any emotion in Sam when he shot Lambert. It was a terrible ending to an awesome character.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
I put myself in his shoes to feel the reality and what i would do in that situation being Sam, but i agree there has been some bad writing but i still like how things went, even with DA

There's been a lot of bad writing IMO. Especially on Sam's behalf.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
that's new, thanks for the intel

It's not new, it's almost five years old. It was a part of that Beware Sam Fisher whatever.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
are you sure of that ?!, got anything to justfy it ?!, i mean picking up fights in a bar i can swallow that, put fighting in the street with a machine gun

I will provide what evidence I have.

First, the segment in question (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdZriLur6c&feature=related). Our part is at 1:25.


<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: He didn't need much help to look like hell. Not since Sarah, his daughter, was killed.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: You hate to see a good man fall so far.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Me, I hoped this mission would let him pull himself back together. We needed him.

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Lambert</span>: Prison, a hell of a place to save a man's life.


Now, first I'd like to examine the context of the segment. I have transcribed what was spoken by Lambert above.

If you view the video in the inteded context, you'll notice that Sam is indeed fighting before he was assigned to the JBA mission.

Lambert actually assinged Fisher to the JBA mission because he wasn't taking Sarah's death well. He was out picking fights in the street and punching mirrors. Actually listen to what Lambert says and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also, please notice that there is no machine gun in Sam's hand when he taunts his attacker. When he is punched to the ground, there is still no machine gun. The reason for this is because he is not trying to get arrested.

The context and dialogue of this portion of the video strongly suggest this is demonstrating Sam's grief.

If you actually want to see him trying to get into prison, watch this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_NKE-vtYY). Notice the machine gun.

Also, please note the segment where he kills a Splinter Cell operative. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif It's at 0:53. Just thought I'd point that out too, because it leads to one of the worst scenes in SC history.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
i think that is out of depression over the death of his daughter, after all the police captured him during the fight in the street and took him to prison, so the mirror punch can't be because of that street fighting

That portion of the video is displayed after the fight in the street. This suggests that it takes place sometime during or after the fight.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:
when i finish i have a theory around Kobin, Sarah, and Sam, maybe we will be able to discuss that

What's your theory? You could create a thread about it. We could also talk about the inconsistencies in that DA vid I showed you too.

sameer_monier
06-08-2010, 05:20 AM
The canon is that Sam capped Lambert. The actual choice players made is irrelevant now. Either way, IMO the writing shows a gross misunderstanding of the real Sam Fisher.

why ?!, if it because he is a Double Agent then i think it was a nice addition, a new mission to explore Sam in, actually best sequence you could do that is when choose either to kill Hesham or not, if you don't you get to save him, hear Sam talking to Emile ...etc that was great, i wish the other choices had such an impact, but if you mean another thing by misunderstanding of the real Sam Fisher tell me



What do you suppose helps new Fisher sleep at night with Lambert on his conscience (assuming this new one has one)?

He knows he had to do it, he saved millions of lives, he stopped the JBA, and he appreciates Lambert sacrifice, but i think he is more mad at himself after he found out that Lambert lied to him to protect him



DA never really displayed any emotion in Sam when he shot Lambert. It was a terrible ending to an awesome character.

Agree on that, not during killing Lambert nor after it, other than the sound of his beating heart there was nothing



There's been a lot of bad writing IMO. Especially on Sam's behalf.

some examples ?!



It's not new, it's almost five years old. It was a part of that Beware Sam Fisher whatever.

i meant new to me cause i didn't know it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif




Lambert actually assinged Fisher to the JBA mission because he wasn't taking Sarah's death well. He was out picking fights in the street and punching mirrors. Actually listen to what Lambert says and you'll see what I'm talking about.
that's what i said/meant he was picking fights in the streets, and he didn't use his krava maga or kill anybody it was just away to remove the tension he had inside of him (and it didn't help), and punshing the mirror is his way to deny what he have become and how he couldn't handle Sarah's death and that he is so depressed over her death



Also, please notice that there is no machine gun in Sam's hand when he taunts his attacker. When he is punched to the ground, there is still no machine gun. The reason for this is because he is not trying to get arrested.

The context and dialogue of this portion of the video strongly suggest this is demonstrating Sam's grief.

If you actually want to see him trying to get into prison, watch this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_NKE-vtYY). Notice the machine gun.


Exactly that's what i meant in the first place, the machine gun wasn't some street fights, it was his way to get arrested



Also, please note the segment where he kills a Splinter Cell operative. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif It's at 0:53. Just thought I'd point that out too, because it leads to one of the worst scenes in SC history.

I didn't like that end too much, i liked how Sam killed a SC and cut the connection with William, but i didn't like what happened to Enrica, i also didn't like how Enrica wasn't mentioned in the end of the next gen, didn't know what happened to her




That portion of the video is displayed after the fight in the street. This suggests that it takes place sometime during or after the fight.


i was talking about the machine gun fight, that's why there was some confusion between us, i didn't clarify, but now i guess we are standing in the same spot




What's your theory? You could create a thread about it. We could also talk about the inconsistencies in that DA vid I showed you too.

About Sarah i will as soon as i finish the exam, because first of all i will get flammed by every one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif secoundly i don't have time now to respond to every one (exams you know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif), and about the DA video i hope we can discuss it further, i have pointed out my points to you above, and i made a mistake when i didn't say that i meant the fire fighting in the street that made some confusion, BTW i am re-playing DA now next gen