PDA

View Full Version : Solution for powerful artifacts



The_Vortex
04-12-2005, 11:49 AM
I wish to see in Heroes 5 that Nival bring back guarded powerful artifacts like in Heroes 2.In that way a player could not get them right away. Only this time, there should be more monsters that guards it. Like in heroes 2 where you must fight a black dragon to get a certain artifact (lol! can't remember what artifact actually was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif), so in heroes 5 there would be good to see more powerful monsters guarding it.

Example: sword of judgement (+5 to all atributes - artifact from Heroes 3), by default is guarded with 10 black dragons, but they are not the monsters on the adventure map, they just appear in combat following by picking this artifact up. I hope you understand me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

The_Vortex
04-12-2005, 11:49 AM
I wish to see in Heroes 5 that Nival bring back guarded powerful artifacts like in Heroes 2.In that way a player could not get them right away. Only this time, there should be more monsters that guards it. Like in heroes 2 where you must fight a black dragon to get a certain artifact (lol! can't remember what artifact actually was http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif), so in heroes 5 there would be good to see more powerful monsters guarding it.

Example: sword of judgement (+5 to all atributes - artifact from Heroes 3), by default is guarded with 10 black dragons, but they are not the monsters on the adventure map, they just appear in combat following by picking this artifact up. I hope you understand me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

NailagCiad
04-12-2005, 12:03 PM
I'd rather see they returned the ability to customize guardians for each artifact- like in H3. Automatic guardians like that might be totally inapropriate for certain maps.

Dink-the-Mink
04-12-2005, 12:41 PM
Oh, sometimes in H2 you just wanted to pick up one of them morale-ribbons and had to fight a Bonedragon for it^^
Or you had to hae expert wisdom/leadership for an artie.
It was randomly - but it was quite nice imo. Only that wisdom/leadership-thingie was annoying, esp. when you wre Necromancer and wanted to pick up a kick-****-arti and had to have exp. Leadership for it -.-"

But on the whole it's a nice feature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

reg
****

But it wopuld also be nice to be able to customize the guards as in h3, yes, indeed

Marelt
04-12-2005, 01:41 PM
Just make a proper scripting system and it will all work out fine.

Alderbranchh
04-13-2005, 12:33 AM
I still miss those "you need this ability to get it" thingy from homm2...
That would be good to have...
Adding quests to get items perhaps would be even more fun...

Salventus
04-13-2005, 11:22 AM
I think they should restrict certain types of artifacts with certain types of Hero alignment. For example, a castle Hero shouldn't be able to carry evil artifacts even if it's a sword or a ranged weapon.

Vicheron
04-13-2005, 09:30 PM
They could put level or skill requirements on artifacts.

Fidanas
04-14-2005, 01:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vicheron:
They could put level or skill requirements on artifacts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very good idea. This will prevent, fast roaming "scouts", from collecting all the precious stuff.

stevenlynch
04-14-2005, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vicheron:
They could put level or skill requirements on artifacts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Level restriction could require any hero sufficiently advanced to pick up the artifact (obviously excluding scouts), whereas a skill requirement (such as Leadership) would require a particular type of hero (eg. not Necromancers/a certain magic-user type etc.).

Assassination
04-15-2005, 04:50 AM
Yeah..but..how'bout the HEROES with scout...or logistics or stuf..we remove them..? anyway..that's what they're good for...searching..SCOUTING...

Logan_HP
04-15-2005, 07:47 AM
I disagree with the author of this topic. On RPG-style maps such thing can simply destroy all the gameplay. Imagine, that you have to bring a Medal of Courage to some seer in order to pass further and when you try to pick it up, it suddenly demands the knowledge of Leadership from your only hero in the scenario. What you shall do then - curse everything and restart? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Svetac
04-15-2005, 08:09 AM
What should also be done, beside tough guardians guarding the top artifacts, is to make the artifacts more balanced. In my opinion Heroes 2 had perfect balance of power of the artifacts. In Heroes 3 there were simply too many overpowered artifacts and that ruined many MP games. The guy that first obtains such super artifact is almost always invincible. And that's something that requires serious approach in Heroes 5.

Zamolxis108
04-15-2005, 08:46 AM
Then we should be able to pick up the artifacts, but maybe not be able to use it (if anything like that will be in the game - I'm not yet sure I'm ok with it anyway).

To comment another idea from the first post, it would be nice if there will be a corelation between the artefact and the creatures usually guarding it. It's pretty stupid when you find an artefact like "Angel Wings" or "Titan's Gladius", guarded by some peasants or troglodytes (no patter how many they are). The correlation can be with both the level of the guardian creature, but also the alignment (what would an ogre do with a Tome of Water Magic for example?).

stevenlynch
04-15-2005, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Logan_HP:
I disagree with the author of this topic. On RPG-style maps such thing can simply destroy all the gameplay. Imagine, that you have to bring a Medal of Courage to some seer in order to pass further and when you try to pick it up, it suddenly demands the knowledge of Leadership from your only hero in the scenario. What you shall do then - curse everything and restart? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. Maybe make it so that if the artifact has been customized it does not require any more skill checks.

The_Vortex
04-16-2005, 06:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Logan_HP:
I disagree with the author of this topic. On RPG-style maps such thing can simply destroy all the gameplay. Imagine, that you have to bring a Medal of Courage to some seer in order to pass further and when you try to pick it up, it suddenly demands the knowledge of Leadership from your only hero in the scenario. What you shall do then - curse everything and restart? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That option (with monsters guarding it) should be default. But if someone decided to make the rpg map then there should be an option to remove default. I.e. artifact options:
1. default
2. custom/user made
3. linked to event
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lepastur
04-16-2005, 12:02 PM
I don't like super-Artifacts. They break the game's equilibrium making the final battle unneeded because just when anyone got one of them, the game is over. This is because that one will go so much faster than the enemies, killing MON and powering up the hero, so the final battle hasn't that special feeling and uncertainty that it had on HoMM1 or HoMM2.

Svetac
04-17-2005, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lepastur:
I don't like super-Artifacts. They break the game's equilibrium making the final battle unneeded because just when anyone got one of them, the game is over. This is because that one will go so much faster than the enemies, killing MON and powering up the hero, so the final battle hasn't that special feeling and uncertainty that it had on HoMM1 or HoMM2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Preach it brother. That's just what I said in my previous post and I can't agree more with you. Super artifacts break the game. kick the out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lepastur
04-17-2005, 08:06 AM
Yeah! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif That's the way of thinkin' of all those who fell in love with H2 (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif) and want to keep its spirit alive. For this, only two things are needed:

1 - The land should be scarce of resources.
2 - No Super Artifacts or Super Structures (like H3 Utopias).

CyberViper
04-17-2005, 01:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lepastur:
Yeah! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif That's the way of thinkin' of all those who fell in love with H2 (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif) and want to keep its spirit alive. For this, only two things are needed:

1 - The land should be scarce of resources.
2 - No Super Artifacts or Super Structures (like H3 Utopias). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HoMM 2 had the BEST design of the whole series, and I have stated so in many threads. Of course it was not perfect, but was way ahead of its time. (this is not to say that HoMM 1,3,or 4 are poor games...they rock too).

I do have to say that I dissagree a little with your theory on atrifacts and resources. I love maps that have an abundance of resources. Not because I get alot of reasources, but because of the principle: "I chose for my hero to go down this path, and look at all this stuff that I found. If I had gone down another path, would I have had this much success?"

It plays into the idea that you are at war, and that events can change the tide of war. Like if i need 6 or 7 more sulfur to build a dragon's cave and i randomly find a pile of sulfur in my path, I'm like "YES!! I FREAKIN ROCK". It takes the game to the next level.

And quickly, about the artifacts...I like really strong artifacts. It can change the tide of war, which is the whole point behind artifacts. That's why they are called "artifacts", because they have great value (some more than others). And usually its not unfair because you have to defeat strong guardians to get the artifact, it's not like it's just handed to you.

stevenlynch
04-18-2005, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberViper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lepastur:
Yeah! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif That's the way of thinkin' of all those who fell in love with H2 (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif) and want to keep its spirit alive. For this, only two things are needed:

1 - The land should be scarce of resources.
2 - No Super Artifacts or Super Structures (like H3 Utopias). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HoMM 2 had the BEST design of the whole series, and I have stated so in many threads. Of course it was not perfect, but was way ahead of its time. (this is not to say that HoMM 1,3,or 4 are poor games...they rock too). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, HOMM2 was way ahead of its time. However, that doesn't mean it has to be the best HOMM ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lepastur
04-18-2005, 02:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberViper:

I do have to say that I dissagree a little with your theory on atrifacts and resources. I love maps that have an abundance of resources. Not because I get alot of reasources, but because of the principle: _"I chose for my hero to go down this path, and look at all this stuff that I found. If I had gone down another path, would I have had this much success?"_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I agree you about what you mean with the crossroad point, but that same situations happen on a map scarce of resources, but with an important difference: if the map has a lot of resources, mines will become almost useless; in a scarce one, mines will remain being a key, among other ones, of the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It plays into the idea that you are at war, and that events can change the tide of war. Like if i need 6 or 7 more sulfur to build a dragon's cave and i randomly find a pile of sulfur in my path, I'm like "YES!! I FREAKIN ROCK". It takes the game to the next level. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, simple right events can, and should, change the tide of war, but if there's a lot of resources they could be found elsewhere, so the exploration phase and taking mines would become obsolete. The game would become into a "go, go, go for the highest level" and there won't be the medium phase, which it should take some time (like on H1 or H2), when you had to fight with the indispensable low level troops and take measures about dividing them in order to get more in the lesser time, and the more important, make up one's mind about what will be better: save money in order to build the highest level or use it to get more troops in order to fight for more resources, in order to get the first thing, or maybe attack the enemy players.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And quickly, about the artifacts...I like really strong artifacts. It can change the tide of war, which is the whole point behind artifacts. That's why they are called "artifacts", because they have great value (some more than others). And usually its not unfair because you have to defeat strong guardians to get the artifact, it's not like it's just handed to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the question is not if it's fair or not, it's clearly fair because the one who gets the super-artifacts earlier is often the best player, because it's the one who is able to defeat the guardian before the enemies (probably with an army which others won't dare to attack with). The question is that after that event, the game is over, because if the best player gets the super-ART it will be almost impossible to win him/her because, by on one hand, cos he/she is better; and by the other one, cos he/she have a huge advantage, the super-ART, which will allow him/her to get the other super-ART's and killing High Guardians in order to power the hero 'till the game is finally sentenced before a final battle.

Now I ask: "Why are we playing for?"
My answer: For an uncertain battle where we could find some fun.

With super-ART, and super-structures which power up a lot the hero, the final battles would be clearly pre-decided and there won't be a need for them, at least you want to lose your time.

CyberViper
04-18-2005, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes, HOMM2 was way ahead of its time. However, that doesn't mean it has to be the best HOMM ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is true, although this post probably needs to be in the other thread named "Which HoMM Game is the Best?".

And also, i was just saying how HoMM 2 has the best design...not necessarily that it was the best HoMM game ever.

To say such a thing would discredit my opinions in other HoMM (1,3, or 4) threads, and we can't have that. I have found this true:

It is nearly impossible to say which HoMM game is the BEST in the series, simply due to the fact that each new game brings new ideas that improve on the game before it, while also bringing new problems. There is no HoMM game that has All of the good stuff, with No bad stuff. Each game is better in some ways, and worse in others...which kinda adds to the diversity of playing the entire series.

stevenlynch
04-18-2005, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyberViper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes, HOMM2 was way ahead of its time. However, that doesn't mean it has to be the best HOMM ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is true, although this post probably needs to be in the other thread named "Which HoMM Game is the Best?".

And also, i was just saying how HoMM 2 has the best design...not necessarily that it was the best HoMM game ever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point.