I have a few questions about Lockdown.

[Kak-]

First of all, what's the release date? I heard that it was sometime this week, is that true?

Anyways, the main point of this post is about the future of Rainbow Six: Lockdown and Rainbow Six in general.

I am a huge Rainbow Six fan, and a huge realism fan, and have a lot of online friends that are as well. I have been telling my friends that although the Lockdown demo showed off a very unrealistic game, that I am sure that some of this will be dealt with in future patches, such as the insane run speed, the high ammount of damage an enemy and the player can take, and the fact that the pistols have unlimmited ammunition.

But I have come here and a lot of what I am hearing is that although the developers are listening to a lot of our criticisms, they are "diverting it to the future of the Rainbow franchise". Does that mean they are in essence abandoning Lockdown and virtually leave it with the excuse "it is what it is" without trying to salvage it, and making us wait another few years for a worthy Rainbow successor? There are minor modifications to this games code that could help make this a better game, are the developers going to just leave this behind like a wounded animal, or will they continue making modifications to the game like they have been so it's more in line with the rest of the series, and what the clear majority of us would like to see.

I know a lot of you are very angry and not getting this game, but I had some fun with the demo, and I'm sure someone will come out with a realism mod to make it more fun.

As a huge fan of realism, I feel that iron sights in the Rainbow Six series were long overdue, and am extremely excited about playing with all the guns in this game. I am the most excited about the AN-94.

Please take a few minutes to respond to this post, thank you for your time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Yen Lo]

Its suppose to be released around the 15th of this month.
Lockdowns built for the consoles. 4 man coop, 8 man adversarial.
I didnt care for the Parking Ramp mission. I did like the Prision in adv. Ill probably get the game at a discount sometime. I heard Best Buy offers it 10 dollars off the first day its out or whatever. Just play the demo. I still prefer rvs for the pistol games. gl
Yes compare this series to what the SC series gets, its easy to see we get the short end of the stick.(as far as pre launch hype)

[KungFu_CIA]

As of right now the only "official" (as in being discussed between the Feedback Council and Geiger) word is only minor changes like run and walk speeds are being considered.

Major changes to the code like multiple teams and planning is just not possible at this time and may never be since these would have to be coded from scratch, most likely.

So, while not an official response (or any schedule given) be aware UBI and RSE are listeni ng to the feedback being given here and will do their best to address them.

[Kak-]

Thanks a lot for both of your responses, it is much appreciated. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes I know that major changes like that are not realistic to consider ever being implimented. I was talking about changes that required minor alterations to variables in game, such as bullet lethality and ammount of ammunition on a personnel. I hope the ability for an unarmored AI enemy in single player to withstand multiple centermass hits from a 7.62x51 NATO round would be one of those variables that would be altered. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Yen Lo]

http://www.rainbowsixgame.com/uk/newspost.php?id=14582
Rainbow Six
Now you know what we know, gl.

[Kak-]

Thanks a lot, that looks very nice, except for the fact that they use the word "clip" instead of magazine, since all firearms in the Rainbow six games use magazines (with some being belft fed), and none use clips. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And that AK-74 in the flash animation at the top of that page doesn't seem to have an ejection port, and if it does it's on the wrong side of the firearm.

I would have hoped that the Rainbow Six people would know basic information of guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[TedSmith]

Originally posted by Kak-:
Thanks a lot for both of your responses, it is much appreciated. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes I know that major changes like that are not realistic to consider ever being implimented. I was talking about changes that required minor alterations to variables in game, such as bullet lethality and ammount of ammunition on a personnel. I hope the ability for an unarmored AI enemy in single player to withstand multiple centermass hits from a 7.62x51 NATO round would be one of those variables that would be altered. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That's already alterable actually. You can open the .gun files and tweak the damage the weapons do, or go into the actors folder and tweak the "hit points" of each section of any character's body. All it will take is to install a suitable realism mod and you won't have that problem again.

[Drogmir]

true they can make a realism mod but that's not really the porblem we have right now. Any half baked modder can take away all of the health bubbles and make it 1 shot 1 kill like before but it's gonna take a team to make the AI better. The only good part is that the Ai can't get any wrose and they can just use Raven Sheild's coding as a guide

[TedSmith]

Eh? Raven-Shield's AI was HORRENDOUS... what crack have you been smoking? At least in Lockdown they make attempts to hide now and then.

[Yen Lo]

Originally posted by Kak-:
Thanks a lot, that looks very nice, except for the fact that they use the word "clip" instead of magazine, since all firearms in the Rainbow six games use magazines (with some being belft fed), and none use clips. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And that AK-74 in the flash animation at the top of that page doesn't seem to have an ejection port, and if it does it's on the wrong side of the firearm.

I would have hoped that the Rainbow Six people would know basic information of guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Yup why they dont try harder we will never know.

[Drogmir]

Originally posted by TedSmith:
Eh? Raven-Shield's AI was HORRENDOUS... what crack have you been smoking? At least in Lockdown they make attempts to hide now and then.

ok then wise guy Ghost Recon Island Thunder. In island thunder they attaully flanked you if you pinned them down

[RedTerex]

I think that the Iron Sights are a brilliant and much needed feature that RVS has been screaming out for for ages.

Shooting from half raised position has always made me wince.
I have fired real guns (like a few others in here)and let me tell you, if that bead isnt sighted up on the target then chances are...your going to miss.

Thnaks for Iron Sights RSE/UBi !

[SODsniper]

Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
As of right now the only "official" (as in being discussed between the Feedback Council and Geiger) word is only minor changes like run and walk speeds are being considered.


Just to clarify/update this part.

The changing of the walk/run speed is being "considered"??

Or is being done?

[ThePlainsman]

Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
As of right now the only "official" (as in being discussed between the Feedback Council and Geiger) word is only minor changes like run and walk speeds are being considered.

Major changes to the code like multiple teams and planning is just not possible at this time and may never be since these would have to be coded from scratch, most likely.

So, while not an official response (or any schedule given) be aware UBI and RSE are listeni ng to the feedback being given here and will do their best to address them.

Have UBE and RSE EXPLAINED why they eliminated all the good stuff like pre-mission planning, realistic movement and animations, multi-squad control, and added kiddie stuff like glowing markers for moving your one team and rings showing your grenade's path?

[deosl]

Originally posted by ThePlainsman:
Have UBE and RSE EXPLAINED why they eliminated all the good stuff like pre-mission planning, realistic movement and animations, multi-squad control, and added kiddie stuff like glowing markers for moving your one team and rings showing your grenade's path?

Some of it yeah. Check it out at Gamespot's video interview with Lockdown's producer here. (http://www.gamespot.com/pages/video_player/popup.php?sid=6142628&pid=925341)

[KungFu_CIA]

Originally posted by SODsniper:

Just to clarify/update this part.

The changing of the walk/run speed is being "considered"??

Or is being done?

Right now it is up-in-the-air.

Geiger asked the Council what were some of the major things we want changed in Lockdown to make it a more tolerable game within the context of being easily patched. He even gave the example of walking and running speeds being more realistic and manageable than coding in planning and other features that were never part of the core (console) code to begin with.

This was a few weeks ago.

What I want you and others to understand is Geiger (at least) knows Lockdown was not well recieved. This isn't rocket science if you've been reading this and other R6 Forums.

However, the game is being released "as is" and when it does, it appears UBI and RSE will at least try and support it and patch/change major things a majority of the community want changed like the run speed for example.

Being a modder, I personally requested for extensive editing tools (3DSMax plug-ins; new IKE editor; new RSB Photoshop plug-in; etc.) to be released very close to the same day as the retail launch so we can at least start adding new weapons, player models and even maps so we are not stuck with the linear ones for SP and MP CO-OP. Again, this was a few weeks ago.

So, there is no official word on anything, but at least they are being considered and people need to know this because there are constant "UBI doesn't care/listen" posts which is not accurate considering Lockdown as a game actually has nothing to do with those like Geiger, RSE and the Feedback Council listening or not listening to the Community and addressing their concerns and wishes as Lockdown was going to be released regardless of a Feedback Council, or not.

[SODsniper]

Thanx for the input, KF... I am not trying to be argumentative here. Really, I am not.

But I am trying to understand exactly what is going on.


Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SODsniper:

Just to clarify/update this part.

The changing of the walk/run speed is being "considered"??

Or is being done?

Right now it is up-in-the-air.

Geiger asked the Council what were some of the major things we want changed in Lockdown to make it a more tolerable game within the context of being easily patched. He even gave the example of walking and running speeds being more realistic and manageable than coding in planning and other features that were never part of the core (console) code to begin with.

This was a few weeks ago.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is one part where I am confused. We have been told that we might as well give up about making comments/suggestions/feedback about Lockdown, because Lockdown is a done deal. Further, we have been told that the Feedback Council is NOT for Lockdown, but rather for RS6-5.

But, from your part above, it looks like the council IS having input into LockDown.

Again, I am not trying to piss anyone off. I just want to understand.


Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
What I want you and others to understand is Geiger (at least) knows Lockdown was not well recieved. This isn't rocket science if you've been reading this and other R6 Forums.


True 'dat.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
However, the game is being released "as is" and when it does, it appears UBI and RSE will at least try and support it and patch/change major things a majority of the community want changed like the run speed for example.


Now THIS is the kind of information that we need to hear. Had this been posted weeks ago, a vast majority of the whiney and PO'ed feedback might not have been posted.

Oh well, water under the bridge. Onward....


Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
Being a modder, I personally requested for extensive editing tools (3DSMax plug-ins; new IKE editor; new RSB Photoshop plug-in; etc.) to be released very close to the same day as the retail launch so we can at least start adding new weapons, player models and even maps so we are not stuck with the linear ones for SP and MP CO-OP. Again, this was a few weeks ago.


This also answers a question that was posted a week ago and went unanswered. Thanx...


Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
So, there is no official word on anything, but at least they are being considered and people need to know this because there are constant "UBI doesn't care/listen" posts which is not accurate considering Lockdown as a game actually has nothing to do with those like Geiger, RSE and the Feedback Council listening or not listening to the Community and addressing their concerns and wishes as Lockdown was going to be released regardless of a Feedback Council, or not.

Here is how I (and possibly others) sees things.
The council was formed and after all the hearty congrats and all, there were a few shots at a dialouge and then.... nothing. It was like everything stopped. Questions and suggestions posed went unanswered and/or unaddressed for days. A week or more.

I am not talking about garbage questions like, "Damn, this sucks!! Can you fix it!!??" and stuff like that. I am talking about sincere and relevant questions and suggestions being, by all available evidence, ignored.

Now, I am not going to go into the same old song and dance about this issue as I am sure that everyone is as sick of reading it as I am of posting it..

But the fact is, everytime someone brings up the statement that the "UBI is not listening/UBI doesn't care" idea is a false idea, I cannot help but set the record straight.

We need to be SHOWN that UBI is listening and that UBI cares.

Your post is a PERFECT example of how this can be done. You have just answered a *MONTHS* worth of questions in one post that probably took you all of 5 mins to write.

Now if we could see this sort of dedication once or twice a day, I would be willing to wager that the # of "UBI DOESN'T LISTEN" posts would fall to nearly nil...

Bottom line is this.

1. We need more 2-way communications. Be it with the Feedback Council or UBI or SOMEONE in the know. This is most important. I honestly do not believe that asking for a few posts a day is asking too much.

2. We need to know what exactly is the thrust/purpose of the council. Should we give feedback to the council for Lockdown or RS6-5? Both?? Neither??

3. There needs to be less tolerance for the scumbags who ruin things for the rest of us. If people leave nasty and foul-mouthed whiney feedback, then they should be nuked. Plain and simple.


Just my thoughts.

[D3v0ur3r]

Jesus you are a troll.

Here's a thought to all the people constantly whining (SODsniper) about R6:LD before the game is even out. DON'T BUY IT, Click the little X at the top right of this page & never return. You'll save your selves loads of pent up aggrivation as well as save the rest of us from endless annoyance.

[deosl]

True that the council was formed for the future of Rainbow Six meaning not LD as it is what it is.
And the community managers have collected feedback on the LD demo, no question about it.

In my own opinion I think they will post when they want feedback from the community in regards to the future of R6.

I won't kiss n tell from the council forums but we are still in the early stages, nothing big so to say yet. Bear with us, we are as eager as anyone of you to start working with the community for the future of Rainbow Six.

[SODsniper]

Originally posted by deosl:
True that the council was formed for the future of Rainbow Six meaning not LD as it is what it is.
And the community managers have collected feedback on the LD demo, no question about it.

I won't kiss n tell from the council forums but we are still in the early stages, nothing big so to say yet. Bear with us, we are as eager as anyone of you to start working with the community with the future of Rainbow Six.

Thanx Deosl.. This is what we need to hear.

Much appreciated.

[cre8nhavoc]

Here is one part where I am confused. We have been told that we might as well give up about making comments/suggestions/feedback about Lockdown, because Lockdown is a done deal. Further, we have been told that the Feedback Council is NOT for Lockdown, but rather for RS6-5.

But, from your part above, it looks like the council IS having input into LockDown.


Yes, we were told that Lockdown was already in its developmental stages prior to the council formation. We were also told that they wished they had put a council together around Lockdown’s development stages but the idea came a bit too late.

Since we are having some discussions with people like Geiger and developers, we are asking some questions about Lockdown and they are responding (when they have free time). We’re hoping to get the changes made to the game prior to release to at least make for a somewhat enjoyable experience (yes, I’m with you guys on the bitter taste of Lockdown).


Now THIS is the kind of information that we need to hear. Had this been posted weeks ago, a vast majority of the whiney and PO'ed feedback might not have been posted.

And with that said, I will try to push on more information for you guys in regards to updates and anything else Lockdown related when it’s released. I know from a personal standpoint that Ubi hardly ever spoke to the community, however I think with the formation of the council we can work to keep you guys to date with information as we push for the answers.


Here is how I (and possibly others) sees things.
The council was formed and after all the hearty congrats and all, there were a few shots at a dialouge and then.... nothing. It was like everything stopped. Questions and suggestions posed went unanswered and/or unaddressed for days. A week or more.

Yeah, sorry about that. Once Geiger got the council setup and our privileges we all kind of took our time in getting things organized and situated. We weren’t trying to ignore any of the people in the forums, sorry if you felt that way. We are still working out kinks and tightening any loose bolts as we speak (and may be for some time), but the bulk of the issues seem like they’ve been addressed.




I am not talking about garbage questions like, "Damn, this sucks!! Can you fix it!!??" and stuff like that. I am talking about sincere and relevant questions and suggestions being, by all available evidence, ignored.

Now, I am not going to go into the same old song and dance about this issue as I am sure that everyone is as sick of reading it as I am of posting it..

But the fact is, everytime someone brings up the statement that the "UBI is not listening/UBI doesn't care" idea is a false idea, I cannot help but set the record straight.

Personally I’m glad you touched on this.

This is where I was trying to come with my post a few days ago. I was reading the forums and I noticed a lot of people posting complaints with little or nothing to back them up. Not saying that most of you guys didn’t already post your thoughts and opinions, just that I would like to see a little bit more clarification to why most of them thought the game wasn’t any good.

And I do take blame in the situation that got out of control, I guess I should’ve posted my topic more clearer on what I was talking about. At the same time, when you say you guys felt out of the loop on things, I can understand why I may have felt a little behind on some of the topics.\

At the same time, I did write that topic out of frustration. I was trying to get any additional feedback that may have been overlooked in the main feedback thread (sometimes people post information in threads anyways without looking at the sticky notes). Doing so I landed on a bunch of posts with little to none information as to why they felt the game wasn’t any good. Not to dwell in the past more than I already have with this subject, but I think this answers what I was trying to clarify before I was crucified.

I’m just trying to get feedback from you guys to hand it off to the proper channels in order to make things known/aware to developers, and in my opinion, little things can count just like the big ones. I’m the type of person that would like the little people’s voice to be heard so to speak.


We need to be SHOWN that UBI is listening and that UBI cares.

Your post is a PERFECT example of how this can be done. You have just answered a *MONTHS* worth of questions in one post that probably took you all of 5 mins to write.

Now if we could see this sort of dedication once or twice a day, I would be willing to wager that the # of "UBI DOESN'T LISTEN" posts would fall to nearly nil...

I couldn’t agree more. And as I said, I will try my best to make an effort in keeping the community updated as much as possible.

I am going through some personal struggles as we speak, so I may not have the amount of freedom to getting online to help you guys out (not until mid March). But I think it’s safe to say that Kung Fu, deosl, Rage and others will be more than willing to step in and update you.

And let’s hope you’re right about the amount of posts we see about the company not listening.


Bottom line is this.

1. We need more 2-way communications. Be it with the Feedback Council or UBI or SOMEONE in the know. This is most important. I honestly do not believe that asking for a few posts a day is asking too much.

2. We need to know what exactly is the thrust/purpose of the council. Should we give feedback to the council for Lockdown or RS6-5? Both?? Neither??

3. There needs to be less tolerance for the scumbags who ruin things for the rest of us. If people leave nasty and foul-mouthed whiney feedback, then they should be nuked. Plain and simple.


Just my thoughts.



1. Agreed. Though it may get tough to post information day to day because sometimes we may not hear from Geiger or anyone else for a few days. Just heed this as a warning.

2. Think of it this way, we are the voice of YOU GUYS. We speak on behalf of the hardcore and loyal fans of the community. There may be times where the group of us will discuss some ideas and concepts, then approach you guys with the idea. There may be instances where developers will put together ideas and feed it to us to feed back to you guys. That's not to say that maybe the community comes up with an idea or suggestion. If you guys here on the forums come up with ideas as well let us know. We can pitch it back to the team and let them know this is what you guys want as well.

We are the channel between both the developers and the gamers as I stated, so keeping the line of communication between both parties is greatly important.

3. Like I was trying to explain in my post the other day, no need to repeat myself here.

[SODsniper]

Thanx for the post, Cre8. No harm, no foul.

I too, apologize to you and to Rage for my belligerence.

[Kak-]

I am very appreciative of the mature diologue going on in my thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But I am somewhat dissapointed that it seems the developers are not trying to salvage this game, and are directing most of the input to the future of Rainbow, which means another three years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[shockwave972]

Give me Spec mode or give me death.**** guess im going to die,bye! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif