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mensaap
02-27-2010, 02:30 AM
I just heard that conviction is going to use the same stupid DRM as assassins creed 2...

Seriously ubisoft, it's hurting your customers, we get * from behind, while you know that the game will be cracked, before or maybe just after release...

And what's worse, THEY'll have a better experience then the real customers, they won't have to deal with logins, internet connections, routers disconnecting, etc...

I won't be buying anymore of ubisoft's games until these DRM are seen for what they are, the only thing that they accomplish is:
- Making trading harder (I don't do that so...)
- Annoying your customers
- Excluding people without a decent internet connection
- Making you lose customers like me...
- Probably driving a lot of people to the console versions...


The absolute worst part of all of this will be that we the consumers can't win.

I don't buy it => I don't get to experience the game...
Someone else won't buy it, and will pirate the game => you guys say DAMN PIRATES
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!


Seriously just drop all DRM, it's useless, Ok what It sometimes does do is prevent the game from being cracked in advance...

Big whoop, it might even be better if it get's cracked in advance, a game should be good, and this is probly giving you free positive advertising...

Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better



<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span>

Mr.E.Bear
02-27-2010, 03:48 AM
You know what, I'm gonna leave all my doors unlocked from now on.

Wait, no I'm not, because I have legal and downright logical right to protect what is mine from theft.

TheFixXxerNL
02-27-2010, 04:05 AM
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!

TRUE!!!

gytamas88
02-27-2010, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
You know what, I'm gonna leave all my doors unlocked from now on.

Wait, no I'm not, because I have legal and downright logical right to protect what is mine from theft.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Totally agree with you!

And c'mon why do you even care that you have to log in every time you play the game? It annoys you cause your time is too precious to spend 3 seconds for this before playing the game?
Console version? Hell no!!
You r canceling pre order? Cool, just next time you share info like this with us, do it in the existing threads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

H.A.R.M.s
02-27-2010, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
You know what, I'm gonna leave all my doors unlocked from now on.

Wait, no I'm not, because I have legal and downright logical right to protect what is mine from theft. So, you buy product (in this case video game), but it isn't your's, it's manufacturer's? Weird logic.


Originally posted by gytamas88:
And c'mon why do you even care that you have to log in every time you play the game? You have to be connected always, not just to log in. If you get disconnected, game either restarts or shut down (consequence depends on the game).

FrankieSatt
02-27-2010, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
You know what, I'm gonna leave all my doors unlocked from now on.

Wait, no I'm not, because I have legal and downright logical right to protect what is mine from theft.

Your analogy is totally wrong. The proper anology would be you buy the house but the state locks the doors and holds the keys and you are only allowed in the house when they open the door for you.

If I'm paying $60.00 for a game I should be able to play it without the publisher holding the keys that unlocks the game.

The people who pay for the game are being punished and it isn't fair to the consumer. I for one also will not buy a PC game that has DRM and that is why I hardly buy any PC games any more. I have been forced, in more than one way, to play via console and now the PC market has lost another consumer.

Mr.E.Bear
02-27-2010, 06:58 AM
My analogy was from Ubisofts perspective.

FrankieSatt
02-27-2010, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
My analogy was from Ubisofts perspective.

My analogy was from the gamer perspective and that is the perspective that gaming companies need to look at. The consumer will stop buying PC games if the gaming companies continue to harass their customers.

There is NO WAY to stop piracy. NONE. If someone wants to steal something, whether it be a game or anything else, they will find a way. When Microsoft can't even keep their OS from being stolen, I could find a pirated copy of Win7 right now if wanted to, how do you think a gaming company is going to keep their game from being stolen?

Your analogy might have been a UbiSoft perspective, but it's still wrong. They aren't protecting anything, they are punishing the legal consumer who pays good money for their product.

J Saint777
02-27-2010, 08:14 AM
I'm sad you feel this way, especially since an internet connection shouldn't be a problem for you considering your status on the forums.

But there are several DRM hate threads. You could have easily just posted this in one of those.

FrankieSatt
02-27-2010, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by JSaint777:
I'm sad you feel this way, especially since an internet connection shouldn't be a problem for you considering your status on the forums.

But there are several DRM hate threads. You could have easily just posted this in one of those.

It doesn't matter if every single person playing the game has a T1 connection. The problem is that you have to constantly be connected to a server to play a Single Player game that has nothing to do with online play. Servers get overloaded, servers break down, things happen. When those things happen you kicked off the game when you shouldn't have to be online to start with to play it.

My problem is that a company is punishing their paying customers by forcing them to be connected to play a Single Player game in which no internet connection is needed. An internet connection should not be required to play a Single Player game.

gytamas88
02-27-2010, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by FrankieSatt:
It doesn't matter if every single person playing the game has a T1 connection. The problem is that you have to constantly be connected to a server to play a Single Player game that has nothing to do with online play. Servers get overloaded, servers break down, things happen. When those things happen you kicked off the game when you shouldn't have to be online to start with to play it.

My problem is that a company is punishing their paying customers by forcing them to be connected to play a Single Player game in which no internet connection is needed. An internet connection should not be required to play a Single Player game.

I suggest you one thing: If you like the game, just buy it and don't bother with making up future problem possibilities. The only way I could say that no, don't buy a game with DRM if you were paying for the internet by the hour, otherwise... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SilencedScream0
02-27-2010, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by gytamas88:
I suggest you one thing: If you like the game, just buy it and don't bother with making up future problem possibilities. The only way I could say that no, don't buy a game with DRM if you were paying for the internet by the hour, otherwise... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'll sympathize with the TC here.

My friend is about three hours away for college. The internet connection on is campus is weak and his laptop will occasionally disconnect for a few seconds. It's bearable enough that he can continue searching the web (just needs to refresh the page after a few seconds), but DRM games boot him offline.

If he pays $60 for this game, he shouldn't have to wait to come home in May to play it.

And this isn't just one case - I've already seen several posters here mention similar problems.


I apologize if I seem closed-minded here, but after hearing the people putting in the feature flat out say that DRM CAN and WILL be cracked, I see no point in putting it in if all it serves to do is alienate players in the end.

gytamas88
02-27-2010, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
I'll sympathize with the TC here.

My friend is about three hours away for college. The internet connection on is campus is weak and his laptop will occasionally disconnect for a few seconds. It's bearable enough that he can continue searching the web (just needs to refresh the page after a few seconds), but DRM games boot him offline.

If he pays $60 for this game, he shouldn't have to wait to come home in May to play it.

And this isn't just one case - I've already seen several posters here mention similar problems.


I apologize if I seem closed-minded here, but after hearing the people putting in the feature flat out say that DRM CAN and WILL be cracked, I see no point in putting it in if all it serves to do is alienate players in the end.

I feel sorry for your friend but in the case of Conviction I don't think that with or without DRM he could play it on his Laptop anyway unless he has a very expensive power-maschine. It's the same case with College computers: they are not for gaming.
About the "fact" that DRM can be cracked I'd like to quote Mr.E.Bear with a little modification:

Why do you lock your door if you know that it can be picked anyways?
In the point of view of the house owner: the key can also break though it doesn't mean it's going to.
and in the point of view of the burglar: IT'S ILLEGAL!!!

Jamsedreng22
02-27-2010, 01:46 PM
So, what're you gonna do if you're gonna play online games? I suppose you're a little like this:
Loading lobby... Please wait.
*2 Seconds later*
**** this... This is too slow. Gonna go play some Gameboy.

Stealthgamer001
02-27-2010, 01:48 PM
When the world ends in 2012 and the internet crashes, all the PC gamers will be sitting in front of a computer in their underground shelters pulling their hair out because they can't play Conviction.

gytamas88
02-27-2010, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Jamsedreng22:
So, what're you gonna do if you're gonna play online games? I suppose you're a little like this:
Loading lobby... Please wait.
*2 Seconds later*
**** this... This is too slow. Gonna go play some Gameboy.

Yeah, gameboy ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
You r just cursing Conviction for sth you just made up as you can't possible know how smooth the games menu and loading system will be! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SilencedScream0
02-27-2010, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by gytamas88:

I feel sorry for your friend but in the case of Conviction I don't think that with or without DRM he could play it on his Laptop anyway unless he has a very expensive power-maschine. It's the same case with College computers: they are not for gaming.
About the "fact" that DRM can be cracked I'd like to quote Mr.E.Bear with a little modification:

Why do you lock your door if you know that it can be picked anyways?
In the point of view of the house owner: the key can also break though it doesn't mean it's going to.
and in the point of view of the burglar: IT'S ILLEGAL!!!

Do we have the specs yet for PC, anyway? I don't suppose he'll be able to run it at the highest quality, but it'll be playable.


As for the quote, that's an impressive point, but there's a slight flaw: when a burglar finally does break into your home, it'll just be that burglar in that one instance.

When one person cracks the DRM, thousands of people will be able to download and access the crack.


I can find quotes about the futility as well, "Digital files cannot be made uncopyable, any more than water can be made not wet."

Putting DRM may avert some, but it only takes one person to crack it for thousands (if not more). If DRM is not impenetrable, then they'll just be delaying an inevitable leak that'll still be open to just as many people as it would've been had DRM not been placed on it.

I don't support pirating by any means, but I still see no justification for DRM when it frustrates honest players more than it stops pirating.

TL;DR VERSION:
Pointless attempts at protections are still just that - pointless.

gytamas88
02-27-2010, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
Do we have the specs yet for PC, anyway? I don't suppose he'll be able to run it at the highest quality, but it'll be playable.


As for the quote, that's an impressive point, but there's a slight flaw: when a burglar finally does break into your home, it'll just be that burglar in that one instance.

When one person cracks the DRM, thousands of people will be able to download and access the crack.


I can find quotes about the futility as well, "Digital files cannot be made uncopyable, any more than water can be made not wet."

Putting DRM may avert some, but it only takes one person to crack it for thousands (if not more). If DRM is not impenetrable, then they'll just be delaying an inevitable leak that'll still be open to just as many people as it would've been had DRM not been placed on it.

I don't support pirating by any means, but I still see no justification for DRM when it frustrates honest players more than it stops pirating.

TL;DR VERSION:
Pointless attempts at protections are still just that - pointless.

Well, we only have some guess work going on right now about the PC specs and some unofficially official ones from the web including this one:

Minimal System Requirements:
* Core 2 Duo with 1,8 Ghz ot Athlon X2 64 with 2,4 GHz
* 1,5 GB RAM (XP) / 2 GB RAM (Vista / 7)
* GeForce 7800 or Radeon X1800 with 256 MB
* 10 GB Hard Disc Space
* Connection 1 MBit/s

Optimal:
* GeForce 8800 GS or Radeon 4670 with 512 MB
* Connection 1 MBit/s

...but the only one that is real but still not full is this:

Additional options in the video/audio/control menus
- Hi resolutions (tested up to 2560x1440)
- High quality anti-aliasing based on video hardware support
- High resolution shadows
- High quality anisotropic filtering
- Arbitrary screen ratio (4:3, 16:9, 16:10, userís choice)

from here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/8011097228)

Btw I pretty much doubt that the first one is near to the real deal as it's kind of obvious if Ubisoft is going to give us a game with graphics on the edge as I would expect (and hope) than the minimums would be on a higher level so to speak.

As for the second part of your response, I have to agree with you about the fact that when a game is cracked it is available for a wide "audiance" (unlike the not mentioned goods in my burglar's case) which is pretty much unfortunate cause it slowly destroys the whole PC game industry and this is the reason why I don't agree about removing the DRM even if it's an unspoken fact that games are instantly cracked.

Let's say I agree with removing the DRM for the players' sake but than what? I mean without any protection they could just as well be distributing the games for free. What do you think would be the best solution if there's no solution against piracy? DRM is at least a try for the better cause with some sacrafices ofc.

To answer my own question one of the solution might be changing the payment method for the games to decrease the amount of piracy. Watch the second chapter of this (http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/bonusround/402?ch=2) to see what I mean. But this is a long term solution that cannot be done from one day to another.

SilencedScream0
02-27-2010, 07:33 PM
Actually, I think the best way to go about it is like ArenaNet did with the MMO Guild Wars.

I say have them access the internet one time, enter a unique code (code varies from player to player) for their game, and THEN let them install the game and play offline if they choose to.

People could come up with a Key Generator for it, sure...but that's a bit more difficult. Still, at least this way, no one would be required to stay online while playing which is the number one concern of my argument to begin with. You can't justify "sacrafices" when there are ways to go about this that don't hurt the honest players


I'm curious if you understand the means to pirate though... you say this is a try for the better cause, but the trying doesn't matter in this case, unfortunately.

As I've stated, if ONE person can crack it (and as Ubi admitted, they eventually will), they can upload the crack to a website, and then it's a matter of a five minute download for thousands of people. After five minutes, people can play this game for free. The only difference the DRM makes is that five minutes.

I hate knowing that I'm paying $60 and that other people will be getting the game for free, but...that's just life.

AionKnight
02-27-2010, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
Actually, I think the best way to go about it is like ArenaNet did with the MMO Guild Wars.

I say have them access the internet one time, enter a unique code (code varies from player to player) for their game, and THEN let them install the game and play offline if they choose to.

People could come up with a Key Generator for it, sure...but that's a bit more difficult. Still, at least this way, no one would be required to stay online while playing which is the number one concern of my argument to begin with. You can't justify "sacrafices" when there are ways to go about this that don't hurt the honest players


I'm curious if you understand the means to pirate though... you say this is a try for the better cause, but the trying doesn't matter in this case, unfortunately.

As I've stated, if ONE person can crack it (and as Ubi admitted, they eventually will), they can upload the crack to a website, and then it's a matter of a five minute download for thousands of people. After five minutes, people can play this game for free. The only difference the DRM makes is that five minutes.

I hate knowing that I'm paying $60 and that other people will be getting the game for free, but...that's just life.
dont forget that the people who get it cracked wont have to be online all the time so connection failures or internet going down wont be a problem for them

soron
02-28-2010, 12:19 AM
ill prob just get the crack even tho I'm buying the game just so I can play offline. I hate having to loggin to an internet site just to play an offline game. DRM is extremely lame.

jlaheye
02-28-2010, 03:53 AM
another thing that hasn't been discussed (that i know off. there are a LOT of threads like this so excuse me if i missed it somewhere) as a consequence of this DRM is that, eventually after couple of years, i would still like to be able to play the game.
Like i do for all the other 'old' games i have, i would like to replay them at some point in the future.
could it be that after a couple of years the servers needed for the verification are unstable or even offline so i wouldn't be able to play in X years?

Aj6627
02-28-2010, 03:56 AM
could it be that after a couple of years the servers needed for the verification are unstable or even offline
That's a valid concern based on the history of stability, or lack thereof, of the Ubi.com servers for Vegas/Vegas2.

SilencedScream0
02-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by AionKnight:
dont forget that the people who get it cracked wont have to be online all the time so connection failures or internet going down wont be a problem for them

That's what I'm saying.
Whether they buy the game or pirate it, they're likely to download the crack anyway, just to avoid the DRM.

This does nothing to STOP people from pirating in the first place. Just frustrates the PC gamer.

And I apologize if anyone thinks I'm taking this personally - I'm not. If I get the game, it'll be for 360. I'm just adding what I know about DRM to the board.

soron
02-28-2010, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
This does nothing to STOP people from pirating in the first place. Just frustrates the PC gamer.
The PC gamer is really taking a back seat in general. Last time I went to EB or GameStop they have very little variety of games for the PC, and they no longer accept PC trade-ins. It seems like PC gaming is becoming more internet based. I see there being no hard copy PC games being sold in the near future.

SilencedScream0
02-28-2010, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by soron:
The PC gamer is really taking a back seat in general. Last time I went to EB or GameStop they have very little variety of games for the PC, and they no longer accept PC trade-ins. It seems like PC gaming is becoming more internet based. I see there being no hard copy PC games being sold in the near future.

I agree.
I think console gaming is becoming the bigger focus for a variety of reasons.

People don't want to spend a lot of money to get their computers up to par with AlienWare gaming computers, being the main complaint I've heard.

Anyway, I love the conversations I've had on this thread, but I think we've gotten a bit off-topic.

DRM sucks, I think we've established, but we're not going to keep them from putting it on the game. If they haven't done it yet, I imagine it will be within the next few days, and I'm sure more (note: didn't say "all") of the masses who do buy the PC version will be annoyed.

Jason-Alaska
02-28-2010, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Mr.E.Bear:
You know what, I'm gonna leave all my doors unlocked from now on.

Wait, no I'm not, because I have legal and downright logical right to protect what is mine from theft.

Well said!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

savior2006
02-28-2010, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
Actually, I think the best way to go about it is like ArenaNet did with the MMO Guild Wars.

I say have them access the internet one time, enter a unique code (code varies from player to player) for their game, and THEN let them install the game and play offline if they choose to.

People could come up with a Key Generator for it, sure...but that's a bit more difficult. Still, at least this way, no one would be required to stay online while playing which is the number one concern of my argument to begin with. You can't justify "sacrafices" when there are ways to go about this that don't hurt the honest players


I'm curious if you understand the means to pirate though... you say this is a try for the better cause, but the trying doesn't matter in this case, unfortunately.

As I've stated, if ONE person can crack it (and as Ubi admitted, they eventually will), they can upload the crack to a website, and then it's a matter of a five minute download for thousands of people. After five minutes, people can play this game for free. The only difference the DRM makes is that five minutes.

I hate knowing that I'm paying $60 and that other people will be getting the game for free, but...that's just life.
You shouldn't. You can rest knowing that you are not a piece of crap thief. I'm sure you have plenty of things that you pay for that other people don't (furniture-wise, clothing-wise, food-wise) and you shouldn't like those products any less, because of someone else's actions.
That said, everyone hates DRM, and according to what many people say it doesn't work. Not for music and not for games. What then, is the point?
Personally, I'd have a team of hitman track all the hackers down and give them a stern talking to.

invalid_info
02-28-2010, 07:22 PM
Oh man. I was going to totally pirate this game but now thanks to this DRM I won't able to. Eff. I guess I'll have to buy it.

Oh wait. I can just wait a week or so until it gets cracked, right? No biggie. I can wait another week.

You see, DRM does nothing to prevent piracy. All it does is restrict, limit, and anger paying customers. I bet most of the dev. team understands this; but some Ubi exec. feels the need to "combat piracy" to make the company look better. w/e

TomeOne
02-28-2010, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by invalid_info:
Oh man. I was going to totally pirate this game but now thanks to this DRM I won't able to. Eff. I guess I'll have to buy it. It's because of people like you that they have to do that in the first place. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

invalid_info
02-28-2010, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by TomeOne:
It's because of people like you that they have to do that in the first place. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Wow. You really missed my point.

TomeOne
02-28-2010, 07:38 PM
Yes I did, and I apologize. Long day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SilencedScream0
02-28-2010, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by savior2006:
You shouldn't. You can rest knowing that you are not a piece of crap thief. I'm sure you have plenty of things that you pay for that other people don't (furniture-wise, clothing-wise, food-wise) and you shouldn't like those products any less, because of someone else's actions.
That said, everyone hates DRM, and according to what many people say it doesn't work. Not for music and not for games. What then, is the point?
Personally, I'd have a team of hitman track all the hackers down and give them a stern talking to.

True, I sleep better at night.
But, yes, the rest of your post is what I've been saying all along.


Originally posted by invalid_info:
Oh man. I was going to totally pirate this game but now thanks to this DRM I won't able to. Eff. I guess I'll have to buy it.

Oh wait. I can just wait a week or so until it gets cracked, right? No biggie. I can wait another week.

You see, DRM does nothing to prevent piracy. All it does is restrict, limit, and anger paying customers. I bet most of the dev. team understands this; but some Ubi exec. feels the need to "combat piracy" to make the company look better. w/e

Again, more of what I've been saying.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're speaking up soon enough to stop it from being put into effect here.

So, to all PC gamers, on THIS issue, I sympathize.

quillan
03-01-2010, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by jlaheye:
another thing that hasn't been discussed (that i know off. there are a LOT of threads like this so excuse me if i missed it somewhere) as a consequence of this DRM is that, eventually after couple of years, i would still like to be able to play the game.
Like i do for all the other 'old' games i have, i would like to replay them at some point in the future.
could it be that after a couple of years the servers needed for the verification are unstable or even offline so i wouldn't be able to play in X years?

This is honestly the biggest problem I see. X-Com came out back in 1994, and I still play it from time to time. Is Ubi going to keep the server up for the next 20 years?

SilencedScream0
03-01-2010, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by quillan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jlaheye:
another thing that hasn't been discussed (that i know off. there are a LOT of threads like this so excuse me if i missed it somewhere) as a consequence of this DRM is that, eventually after couple of years, i would still like to be able to play the game.
Like i do for all the other 'old' games i have, i would like to replay them at some point in the future.
could it be that after a couple of years the servers needed for the verification are unstable or even offline so i wouldn't be able to play in X years?

This is honestly the biggest problem I see. X-Com came out back in 1994, and I still play it from time to time. Is Ubi going to keep the server up for the next 20 years? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh oh. Logic? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Can't have that here.

I hadn't even thought of THEIR servers, and, if I had, I didn't know it worked like that. So if their servers aren't working, PC gamers can't play their SINGLE PLAYER games, let alone MP?

Sigh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Maelor07
03-01-2010, 01:52 PM
*sigh*

I can't believe no one has thought about the fact that some people are on the fence about buying it on PC or 360, therefore, they invent this bull**** DRM to "protect" their games. It's a way of convincing us. (of our convictions?)

Case in point: me. I have a computer capable of running conviction without a problem, but I also have a 360. Which version do I buy? Hm... Even though graphics are superior on the PC, the 360 sports a greater multiplayer community etc. Hm... Decisions, decisions. Oh wait. They put that DRM crap on PC! My decision is now that much easier.

Either that, or Ubisoft is just a bunch of half-wits and I'm wasting my time on this forum.

Good day.

SilencedScream0
03-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Maelor07:
*sigh*

I can't believe no one has thought about the fact that some people are on the fence about buying it on PC or 360, therefore, they invent this bull**** DRM to "protect" their games. It's a way of convincing us. (of our convictions?)

Case in point: me. I have a computer capable of running conviction without a problem, but I also have a 360. Which version do I buy? Hm... Even though graphics are superior on the PC, the 360 sports a greater multiplayer community etc. Hm... Decisions, decisions. Oh wait. They put that DRM crap on PC! My decision is now that much easier.

Either that, or Ubisoft is just a bunch of half-wits and I'm wasting my time on this forum.

Good day.

I'm sure putting DRM on the games isn't free (though I'm not saying it'll be an immense amount), but...
I don't think they'd put it on there just to make people go to 360 instead.

The money goes to Ubisoft whether you buy it for PC or 360.

What you're suggesting would be something Microsoft would want. Not Ubi.

Flamefighta
03-02-2010, 04:04 AM
Talking about Microsoft gave me an idea. What if Microsoft implemented the same DRM on their OS? They know that the majority of the market are using their OS so they can't do that and alienate their customers, or else they'd turn to Mac. Same thing happening here on a smaller scale and I'm getting the feeling Ubisoft wants to shorten the lifespan on PC Gaming. Correct my fail logic if I'm wrong, can't seem to get my facts straight today...

H.A.R.M.s
03-04-2010, 01:33 AM
Apparently, DRM protection for Silent Hunter 5 is already broken.

Way to go Ubi. Legit customers will be restricted by protection that hasn't even resisted longer than one day.

FrankieSatt
03-04-2010, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
Apparently, DRM protection for Silent Hunter 5 is already broken.

Way to go Ubi. Legit customers will be restricted by protection that hasn't even resisted longer than one day.

This just goes to prove the point that no matter what you do the game will be hacked.

All DRM does is promote more piracy and the gaming companies aren't intelligent enough to see that.

PC Gaming will be dead in about 10 years and DRM will have a major part in that, as well as the gaming companies who are switching to consoles instead of PC's.

SilencedScream0
03-04-2010, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by FrankieSatt:
This just goes to prove the point that no matter what you do the game will be hacked.

All DRM does is promote more piracy and the gaming companies aren't intelligent enough to see that.

PC Gaming will be dead in about 10 years and DRM will have a major part in that, as well as the gaming companies who are switching to consoles instead of PC's.

Actually, that's completely right...

They're going to upset the average PC gamer who will complain on forums. People who are visiting those forums to check out what people think about the game will hear the complaints... I mean, think about it - have you ever looked to the online community to find what people thought about a game?

So those people will avoid buying the game...

Rumors will start to spread about cracked versions, and go download them to get around the DRM...instead of just legitly buying the game in the first place.

So, preventing piracy actually encourages it.
Winner, Ubi.

Bloodhunteruk
03-04-2010, 09:15 AM
I'm happy because it means I'll now buy SC:C with a good mind, because it means I can run the game without the DRM, without them monitoring my connection all the time.

While it was supposedly uncrackable then I wouldn't have bought it, now I will.

edit: I should say, there is no proof that the DRM specific to SC:C has been cracked, but it is possible to run Silent Hunter V without the constant internet connection, which means many people are jumping to the conclusion it can be done for anything ubi.

Also, all claims of PC gaming will be dead in 10 years or whatever have been going around for 15 years or more.

Steam is getting huger and huger, as are the other DD sites, proof enough that its not really going anywhere.

SilencedScream0
03-04-2010, 01:36 PM
@Bloodhunteruk

What it is -

DRM can be gotten around. Ubi has even admitted this (try reading back through the thread a bit, we've covered a lot).

It hasn't YET, because no one's gotten a physical copy to sit and tweak, but it's only a matter of time before someone can and will, making the whole point moot...

But it won't stop Ubi.

H.A.R.M.s
03-04-2010, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
DRM can be gotten around. Ubi has even admitted this (try reading back through the thread a bit, we've covered a lot).

It hasn't YET You could listen own advice and read a little back. It's broken already (for Silent Hunter 5). And it's the same DRM for another games. So, it'll take even shorter time to break it for SC:C.

joefoshow95
03-04-2010, 04:55 PM
What is a DRM. everybody is getting extremely angry over it and i dont even know what it is.......

SilencedScream0
03-06-2010, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by joefoshow95:
What is a DRM. everybody is getting extremely angry over it and i dont even know what it is.......

In case you didn't see my post in the other thread...

Digital Rights Management, a security feature.

It requires people to be online when they play, at all times, whether or not the gameplay requires being online. Depending upon the game, if your internet goes out momentarily or completely (or, for some reason, you lose internet connection), the game will automatically pause OR completely shut itself down.

This is obnoxious, but it confirms that the game in genuine.

Thus, the problem:
Ubi has already mentioned that it's not going to keep pirates out, which is supposedly the whole purpose of DRM in the first place. They expect pirates to crack the DRM and create a way around it, allowing the game to be pirated anyway.

Therefore, all it will result doing is being a headache for legit PC gamers who actually purchased the game (it's most likely not going to be on 360 version, but I've seen no link verifying it either way).

GhostFlame713
03-07-2010, 10:58 AM
well if this isn't a surprise AC2 is having problems with some new DRM that makes you be online when you play

BatmanNewsChris
03-07-2010, 02:09 PM
DRM is pointless and only hurts legit customers. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way around it! Such BS!
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03...n-assassins-creed-2/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/07/ubisoft-drm-authentification-server-is-down-assassins-creed-2/)

SilencedScream0
03-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
DRM can be gotten around. Ubi has even admitted this (try reading back through the thread a bit, we've covered a lot).

It hasn't YET You could listen own advice and read a little back. It's broken already (for Silent Hunter 5). And it's the same DRM for another games. So, it'll take even shorter time to break it for SC:C. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...You just agreed with me.
Winner.

It hasn't been broken for SC:C yet because the game isn't out. They may have cracked Ubi's DRM style already, but every game requires a little bit of tweaking.

In pirating, a cracked file will only work for the game it was meant to work for - Silent Hunter 5's will not work WITHOUT MODIFICATION for SC:C. But, yes, since SH5 has already been cracked, it will make it easier for SC:C.

H.A.R.M.s
03-07-2010, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
It hasn't been broken for SC:C yet because the game isn't out. They may have cracked Ubi's DRM style already, but every game requires a little bit of tweaking. Of course it isn't broken for SC:C. But it's the same DRM, know-how is what's important here. If it's broken for SH5, it'll be broken for SC:C.

wozzawas
03-07-2010, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by soron:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
This does nothing to STOP people from pirating in the first place. Just frustrates the PC gamer.
The PC gamer is really taking a back seat in general. Last time I went to EB or GameStop they have very little variety of games for the PC, and they no longer accept PC trade-ins. It seems like PC gaming is becoming more internet based. I see there being no hard copy PC games being sold in the near future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You cant base your assumption that the pc is dead because of EB and Gamestop. For a start EB and gamestop are very choosy on what PC games they stock. There are heaps of pc games out on the market and EB and Gamestop don't even stock half of the games that are available.

The PC is not dead and MS wont allowed it for the PC to die for a start. The PC is far superior to a console and if anything the console will die out before the PC does.

Just think if the PC died out how many industries would be affected it would be massive. It aint going to happen and you will find the industry wont let it happen.

EA has already tried this trick once with MS. EA made a request to MS for one gaming platform instead of the current four. MS response was no way. EA reason for this was to save money on the multiple platforms.

What i would like to see is the consoles integrated on to the pc. I am sure this wouldn't be too hard to do. And i don't mean by connecting up a console to the PC either would be like a peripheral that you slot into your pc and then you would have the console inside the pc.

YtseJammer69
03-08-2010, 04:32 AM
It shouldn't be a problem for me because I have solid internet connection, but I sympathize with others who either have an unstable connection or no connection at all. The fact of that matter is that PC gaming is going out of fashion because of gaming companies, not because of PC's themselves. Console fanboys will flame me, but PC's are superior to consoles. DRM and other bull**** is the reason the PC gaming industry is going down.

H.A.R.M.s
03-08-2010, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by YtseJammer69:
The fact of that matter is that PC gaming is going out of fashion because of gaming companies, not because of PC's themselves. PC themselves made game companies move away from them. It's greatest advantage, hardware diversity, is becoming it's greatest disadvantage: there's too much variables too count in for game companies, and consoles always have same configuration in one generation.

FrankieSatt
03-08-2010, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by wozzawas:You cant base your assumption that the pc is dead because of EB and Gamestop. For a start EB and gamestop are very choosy on what PC games they stock. There are heaps of pc games out on the market and EB and Gamestop don't even stock half of the games that are available.

The PC is not dead and MS wont allowed it for the PC to die for a start. The PC is far superior to a console and if anything the console will die out before the PC does.

Just think if the PC died out how many industries would be affected it would be massive. It aint going to happen and you will find the industry wont let it happen.

EA has already tried this trick once with MS. EA made a request to MS for one gaming platform instead of the current four. MS response was no way. EA reason for this was to save money on the multiple platforms.

What i would like to see is the consoles integrated on to the pc. I am sure this wouldn't be too hard to do. And i don't mean by connecting up a console to the PC either would be like a peripheral that you slot into your pc and then you would have the console inside the pc.

The last time I tried to pre-order a PC game from my local Gamestop they just about laughed out loud. I asked them if they stocked PC games and they told me NO they don'. The ONLY way to get a PC game for me at my local Game Stop is to pre-order it before it comes out. If I don't than I have to go elsewhere, like Best Buy, and they have an extremely limited quantity and selection of titles compared to the XBox and 360 where I can find new and used titles that are over a year old.

PC Gaming is dieing, slowly, but it is dieing. The sports genre is pretty much dead on the PC already and most other genres are just extremely poor PC ports. The ONLY genre that the PC has going for it is MMO's and that isn't going to be enough to sustain it for long, especially the way the economy is dipping.

I know very few agree but when it happens don't be surprised, I know I won't.

DCAustin007
03-08-2010, 09:58 PM
More trouble for Ubisoft's DRM system
Users of Ubisoft's PC games Assassin's Creed II and Silent Hunter 5 have been unable to play over the weekend as the servers for its digital rights management system have been inaccessible.

The company's DRM came under fire from the moment it was announced, as it requires that users connect to the internet while playing the games Ė even the single-player elements.

"Due to exceptional demand, we are currently experiencing difficulties with the Online Service Platform. This does not affect customers who are currently playing, but customers attempting to start a game may experience difficulty in accessing our servers," said the company yesterday. "We are currently working to resolve this issue and apologise for any inconvenience."

A representative for the company said yesterday that the issues was "unacceptable", but critics are openly mocking the company on the internet via forums and other social networks. Both games have only recently been released, and are using the DRM system that Ubisoft had hoped will help put an end to piracy of its games.

Currently legitimate players of its PC games are unable to access the games they have bought, while hacked versions of the games are running and available to download on multiple torrent sites.

"I donít have any clear information on what the issue is since Iím not in the office, but clearly the extended downtime and lengthy login issues are unacceptable, particularly as Iíve been told these servers are constantly monitored," said the rep on the official forums yesterday.

"Iíll do what I can to get more information on what the issue is here first thing tomorrow and push for a resolution and assurance this wonít happen in the future. I realise thatís not ideal but thereís only so much I can do on a weekend as Iím not directly involved with the server side of this system."

GuZZ33
03-09-2010, 05:41 AM
Let me just put this to all that complain about DRM and what ever way those that legaly own the Interlectual Properties choose to do to try to protect it.

If any of you lot invested thousands, if not millions of dollars, pounds, francs, and many many hundreds of human hours work into a games development, what exactly would any of you do to protect the IP from theft ?

FrankieSatt
03-09-2010, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by GuZZ33:
Let me just put this to all that complain about DRM and what ever way those that legaly own the Interlectual Properties choose to do to try to protect it.

If any of you lot invested thousands, if not millions of dollars, pounds, francs, and many many hundreds of human hours work into a games development, what exactly would any of you do to protect the IP from theft ?

Since I'm not in the industry I have no idea what kind of protection measures are out there. I do know this, I would NEVER put a protection on ANY software that would keep a person from playing a Single Player game unless they were connected to the Internet. There is no excuse for that and I'm sure there are other ways to protect it.

Again, I'm not in the industry so I have no idea what is out there but I don't see why unique codes that are embedded in the software and are untraceable wouldn't work.

SilencedScream0
03-09-2010, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
Of course it isn't broken for SC:C. But it's the same DRM, know-how is what's important here. If it's broken for SH5, it'll be broken for SC:C.

You clearly haven't been reading this thread as closely as you think you have.

I've stated this multiple times. Ubisoft even CONFIRMED this, which is what makes this entire thing beyond senseless.

Andre202
03-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Yes Ubisoft comfirmed that there isn't a 100% working crack! You will notice that there something missed in this game when you use the crack.

Actually I don't think PC Gaming is dying. The best example for me is Battlefield Bad Company 2. It's selling very well and there are alot PC Players playing online. Ok there are some Connection problems but they are communicating with the Community the whole time. How the status, asking specific persons to find the cause of the problem. You decide whether you want an online authentication every time the game starts or a DVD authentication. It's the industry's fault that PC Gaming is dying. The PC Version of SCC has only additional Video/Graphic options, but no DX10, DX11 support. No footage of the PC version at all.

The DRM of Ubisoft is just destroying the PC Gaming Community (Europe has a very big PC market). I hear from alot people that they are sending the game back because they can't join. Yesterday I couldn't reach the forums at all, though at the evening it was possible to join. Nevertheless it's ridicolous that people tell about issues that they cannot play a SINGLEPLAYER Game because there of connection problems. First I wanted to buy the PC Version of SCC now I am thinking twice. But if I cannot buy it for PC I wouldn't buy it for XBox 360 even if I had one.

wozzawas
03-09-2010, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by GuZZ33:
Let me just put this to all that complain about DRM and what ever way those that legaly own the Interlectual Properties choose to do to try to protect it.

If any of you lot invested thousands, if not millions of dollars, pounds, francs, and many many hundreds of human hours work into a games development, what exactly would any of you do to protect the IP from theft ?

Why not go after the pirates. All UBI are doing is punishing the genuine customer not the pirates. It is like all industries there is shrinkage. The DRM is broken so it was pointless having it and UBI knew this.

A concerted effort needs to be done by all the publishers to go after the pirates. The record companies and the movie studios do this all the time.

wozzawas
03-09-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Andre202:


The DRM of Ubisoft is just destroying the PC Gaming Community (Europe has a very big PC market). I hear from alot people that they are sending the game back because they can't join. Yesterday I couldn't reach the forums at all, though at the evening it was possible to join. Nevertheless it's ridicolous that people tell about issues that they cannot play a SINGLEPLAYER Game because there of connection problems. First I wanted to buy the PC Version of SCC now I am thinking twice. But if I cannot buy it for PC I wouldn't buy it for XBox 360 even if I had one.

I thought this type of DRM was banned in the EU.

jonaadams
03-09-2010, 08:56 PM
I won't buy Assassins Creed.

$60? Really? I mean come on, if your going to require an internet connection that I may or may not always have to play it. Well, that sounds like a $10 game to me.

wozzawas
03-10-2010, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by jonaadams:
I won't buy Assassins Creed.

$60? Really? I mean come on, if your going to require an internet connection that I may or may not always have to play it. Well, that sounds like a $10 game to me.
Its more like a rental scheme. I just cant believe how UBI got away with this for so long. Can you imagine if EA even tried to do something like this they would have never got away with it. UBI really make EA look like saints thats how far UBI have sank.

H.A.R.M.s
03-10-2010, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by wozzawas:
Its more like a rental scheme. I just cant believe how UBI got away with this for so long. Can you imagine if EA even tried to do something like this they would have never got away with it. UBI really make EA look like saints thats how far UBI have sank. Actually, they're doing it for C&C4. But it's EA, I guess nothing what they do can suprise anyone anymore.

wozzawas
03-12-2010, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wozzawas:
Its more like a rental scheme. I just cant believe how UBI got away with this for so long. Can you imagine if EA even tried to do something like this they would have never got away with it. UBI really make EA look like saints thats how far UBI have sank. Actually, they're doing it for C&C4. But it's EA, I guess nothing what they do can suprise anyone anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure about that. Because all new games that came out this year don't have the DRM for activations. They do give you a option to register online for account to get extra DLC.

H.A.R.M.s
03-12-2010, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by wozzawas:
Are you sure about that. Because all new games that came out this year don't have the DRM for activations. They do give you a option to register online for account to get extra DLC. Pretty much:
Source (kind of) (http://www.cncden.com/index.php?start_from=&ucat=22&subaction=showcomments&id=1247514248&archive=1248137189&)

Does it consider as Ubi's DRM I don't know, but the fact is that you have to be always connected to EA's server.

SCSHADE
03-12-2010, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by mensaap:
I just heard that conviction is going to use the same stupid DRM as assassins creed 2...

Seriously ubisoft, it's hurting your customers, we get * from behind, while you know that the game will be cracked, before or maybe just after release...

And what's worse, THEY'll have a better experience then the real customers, they won't have to deal with logins, internet connections, routers disconnecting, etc...

I won't be buying anymore of ubisoft's games until these DRM are seen for what they are, the only thing that they accomplish is:
- Making trading harder (I don't do that so...)
- Annoying your customers
- Excluding people without a decent internet connection
- Making you lose customers like me...
- Probably driving a lot of people to the console versions...


The absolute worst part of all of this will be that we the consumers can't win.

I don't buy it => I don't get to experience the game...
Someone else won't buy it, and will pirate the game => you guys say DAMN PIRATES
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!


Seriously just drop all DRM, it's useless, Ok what It sometimes does do is prevent the game from being cracked in advance...

Big whoop, it might even be better if it get's cracked in advance, a game should be good, and this is probly giving you free positive advertising...

Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better



<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span>

I agree, completely. I love Ubi, but DRM, reaaaaally? If the internet structure was the most powerful structure on Earth, then it would work. If pirating could be absolutely stopped and games wouldn't get cracked, then it would work (all I've seen is more cracked versions of games with DRM).

Most of the games, I get them for console, but this DRM issue, does worries me. Why can't they add DLC stuff to customers that buy the games (can't get DLC if you don't buy the game - and it probably has to be new to begin with). Kind of like EA did. Reward the customers that buy your games, Ubi. Don't put a penalty on them.

And people, think in a bigger scale of things here. Just because you have a kicka** connection doesn't mean everyone does, and doesn't mean that the servers can't crash. Also think about the people out there who are getting extremely annoyed with this (which leads to less PC gamers or cracked games = no gain).

soron
03-12-2010, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by GuZZ33:
Let me just put this to all that complain about DRM and what ever way those that legaly own the Interlectual Properties choose to do to try to protect it.

If any of you lot invested thousands, if not millions of dollars, pounds, francs, and many many hundreds of human hours work into a games development, what exactly would any of you do to protect the IP from theft ?

I don't have "thousands" or "millions" to invest, but if I invest $60 on a game to play it, I think its unacceptable at any time not to be able to play that game due to servers being down. If I pay for some thing it belongs to me not the company I bought it from. This DRM is robbing from paying customers.

There is no evidence this DRM is protecting anything. DRM or no DRM games are still hacked and pirated.

xXxProNo0BxXx
03-15-2010, 02:23 AM
I hope they are reading this!!! this is extremely outraged!! but i am a big fan of Splinter cell so i will continue to buy this game, however this will be the last game im buying for you UBISOFT! i hope you're happy about this! Jokes on you.....MAJOR FAIL!!

AionKnight
03-15-2010, 03:31 PM
Found something interesting thats related to the DRM
Ubi got owned (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/13357-ubi-com-hacked-free-goods-coming-for-previous-downtime/)
who would have thought people wouldnt apreciate the DRM

SilencedScream0
03-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by AionKnight:
Found something interesting thats related to the DRM
Ubi got owned (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/13357-ubi-com-hacked-free-goods-coming-for-previous-downtime/)
who would have thought people wouldnt apreciate the DRM

If that's legit...that's amazing.

Andre202
03-15-2010, 04:59 PM
They lose alot of potential buyers. I was going to buy the game too, but with DRM? I wanted to preorder the special edition with the Soundtrack CD, now I am not really sure if I will buy it.

SilencedScream0
03-15-2010, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Andre202:
They lose alot of potential buyers. I was going to buy the game too, but with DRM? I wanted to preorder the special edition with the Soundtrack CD, now I am not really sure if I will buy it.

I hope Microsoft never switches over to this.
Forced to be online to play games on the 360 (or whatever system they come out with next). Have to buy the system, buy the game, pay for internet, and pay for Live in order to be able to play the game at all?

That's when I would turn to piracy.
And the sad thing is...I could see it happening in a few years.

AionKnight
03-15-2010, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Andre202:
They lose alot of potential buyers. I was going to buy the game too, but with DRM? I wanted to preorder the special edition with the Soundtrack CD, now I am not really sure if I will buy it.
I know what you mean the DRM is just too much of a negative about the game, how ever i havent canceled my preorder yet
My decision will rest on the shoulders of the demo said to be released this thursday(if a pc version actualy comes out)
and recent upgrades from my internet providers are making my internet fail every 20-30 mins

GhostFlame713
03-17-2010, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by AionKnight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andre202:
They lose alot of potential buyers. I was going to buy the game too, but with DRM? I wanted to preorder the special edition with the Soundtrack CD, now I am not really sure if I will buy it.
I know what you mean the DRM is just too much of a negative about the game, how ever i havent canceled my preorder yet
My decision will rest on the shoulders of the demo said to be released this thursday(if a pc version actualy comes out)
and recent upgrades from my internet providers are making my internet fail every 20-30 mins </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/...ell-conviction-demo/ (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/03/splinter-cell-conviction-demo/)
i want it too for PC but i am not sure they like PCs that much

http://www.blogsdna.com/8320/x...-coming-thursday.htm (http://www.blogsdna.com/8320/xbox-and-pc-splinter-cell-conviction-demo-coming-thursday.htm)

windblownmonkey
03-17-2010, 09:04 PM
I know my opinion. And I'm not buying anything with DRM on it. If I'm buying the game, I want to be able to play it whenever and however I want. If Ubisoft decides to dump their servers later on the game will simply never run again. Screw that. I will not buy the game for the 360 either. I'll buy it used so they don't get a dime. Treat us right, and we'll treat you right Ubisoft. You want my money, earn it. Sell me something I want.

windblownmonkey
03-17-2010, 09:05 PM
And I did cancel my pre order.

ms-kleaneasy
03-18-2010, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by AionKnight:
Found something interesting thats related to the DRM
Ubi got owned (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/13357-ubi-com-hacked-free-goods-coming-for-previous-downtime/)
who would have thought people wouldnt apreciate the DRM

Iíve only just seen this post but to clarify....

I was online working at the time, yes there has been OSP server downtime and for that players will be getting compensation but that has no relation to the claims in that article, at no time has that image replaced anything on the Ubi.com site or OSP. In fact the only connection that image has to Ubi in any way shape or form is that a bunch of spammers joined the forums at the weekend and spammed it in several posts.

The image is in fact nothing more than a created screen shot which was then spammed. Bear in mind Iíve got AC2 on PC installed and have played it without issue, Iíve also seen what happens when the server was affected by downtime and at no point what so ever did that image appear anywhere on there or Ubi.com beyond the forums.

SilencedScream0
03-18-2010, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
The image is in fact nothing more than a created screen shot which was then spammed. Bear in mind Iíve got AC2 on PC installed and have played it without issue, Iíve also seen what happens when the server was affected by downtime and at no point what so ever did that image appear anywhere on there or Ubi.com beyond the forums.

Additional proof:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fuykpd.jpg

Someone took a screenshot to "verify" it, but the shot is flawed.

The picture shows Firefox. If you have FF, look at your address bar - there's a star inside of it, correct?

This address bar has an arrow.

Try typing a link (BUT NOT GOING TO IT) in your Firefox address bar and see what happens. It turns into an arrow. Because it means "go to this website." The picture shown was not actually on Ubi's website.

Seems unlikely overall (despite my previous post) that they were actually hacked.

Hark659
03-18-2010, 08:47 AM
Ubisoft, thanks for killing PC.... ******bag.

kalle90
03-18-2010, 01:22 PM
This isn't my issue considering Conviction. Otherwise I completely agree. In the end all copy protections end up hurting the honest customers while pirates always find a way to bypass these things.

Offtopic but it reminds me of weapon industry. Countries like USA make better weapons to fight crime and terrorism but after a while that technology goes to those criminals. The result is that local civilians suffer

Dellers
03-18-2010, 05:09 PM
The pirates still can't play Assassin's Creed 2. I bought it, and completed it to 100%. I had connection issues once, because the pirates attacked Ubi's servers. Yes, the PIRATES made me unable to play, not Ubi. Except for that it worked brilliantly, and I really don't know any human without the ability to stay on the internet when playing. Unless you live on a train or in a treehouse in the woods, it's nothing of a problem. Conviction has quite a few modes that require you to connect to another player through the internet too, so you would need internet anyway. I was really sceptical about this DRM, but really, it's no problem at all. The "pirates have a better game" argument doesn't work yet, but if they eventually are able to crack these games Ubi should make sure to take the DRM away. Working DRM makes the pirates unable to play. Non-working DRM and the pirates get a better copy of the game.

SilentKilla
03-19-2010, 04:15 AM
I don't understand what all the fuse is about DRM. I absolutely have had no problem with the DRM program. In fact, if not for all the post like this one, I wouldn't even know that DRM exist - that's how transparant the program is to me.

I think I figured out why most of you guys are complaining...DRM is prevent you from hacking. The reason xbox and ps3's don't have DRM's is because they can't be hacked as easily as pc's. You hackers are negatively impacting the revenue of the game makers, so that's why DRM was created.

The only ones complaining about DRM are hacker's.



Originally posted by mensaap:
I just heard that conviction is going to use the same stupid DRM as assassins creed 2...

Seriously ubisoft, it's hurting your customers, we get * from behind, while you know that the game will be cracked, before or maybe just after release...

And what's worse, THEY'll have a better experience then the real customers, they won't have to deal with logins, internet connections, routers disconnecting, etc...

I won't be buying anymore of ubisoft's games until these DRM are seen for what they are, the only thing that they accomplish is:
- Making trading harder (I don't do that so...)
- Annoying your customers
- Excluding people without a decent internet connection
- Making you lose customers like me...
- Probably driving a lot of people to the console versions...


The absolute worst part of all of this will be that we the consumers can't win.

I don't buy it => I don't get to experience the game...
Someone else won't buy it, and will pirate the game => you guys say DAMN PIRATES
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!


Seriously just drop all DRM, it's useless, Ok what It sometimes does do is prevent the game from being cracked in advance...

Big whoop, it might even be better if it get's cracked in advance, a game should be good, and this is probly giving you free positive advertising...

Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better



<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span>

Tzuu
03-19-2010, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by SilentKilla:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mensaap:
I just heard that conviction is going to use the same stupid DRM as assassins creed 2...

Seriously ubisoft, it's hurting your customers, we get * from behind, while you know that the game will be cracked, before or maybe just after release...

And what's worse, THEY'll have a better experience then the real customers, they won't have to deal with logins, internet connections, routers disconnecting, etc...

I won't be buying anymore of ubisoft's games until these DRM are seen for what they are, the only thing that they accomplish is:
- Making trading harder (I don't do that so...)
- Annoying your customers
- Excluding people without a decent internet connection
- Making you lose customers like me...
- Probably driving a lot of people to the console versions...


The absolute worst part of all of this will be that we the consumers can't win.

I don't buy it => I don't get to experience the game...
Someone else won't buy it, and will pirate the game => you guys say DAMN PIRATES
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!


Seriously just drop all DRM, it's useless, Ok what It sometimes does do is prevent the game from being cracked in advance...

Big whoop, it might even be better if it get's cracked in advance, a game should be good, and this is probly giving you free positive advertising...

Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better



<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sue them for wanting to make their game safe.

SilencedScream0
03-19-2010, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by mensaap:
Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better

<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span>

Oh, you mean like this?
EA follows Ubisoft, will sell titles with 'always on' DRM (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on _drm)

thales.100
03-19-2010, 05:59 AM
I have played over 20 hours of AC2 without any issues, as long as pirates cant play the game i paid for, im very ok with this DRM, it makes my entertainment product worth ... more.

SilencedScream0
03-19-2010, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by thales.100:
I have played over 20 hours of AC2 without any issues, as long as pirates cant play the game i paid for, im very ok with this DRM, it makes my entertainment product worth ... more.

I can't verify (mostly because it's not exactly legal and I couldn't run the game anyway), but I've been hearing that it has been cracked.

As for Ubisoft saying that the full game isn't available for cracked versions...I don't see why it wouldn't be.
All cracks do are bypass whatever system check is in place to start the game (like...if you try to run a game and it states that you need to "Insert Disc" or something).

Dellers
03-19-2010, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
I can't verify (mostly because it's not exactly legal and I couldn't run the game anyway), but I've been hearing that it has been cracked.

As for Ubisoft saying that the full game isn't available for cracked versions...I don't see why it wouldn't be.

I checked just now but according to the pirates themselves those are not working. So as of yet - the pirates can't play at all! I think this DRM is smart, as long as the pirates won't be able to crack it. Internet is available almost everywhere anyway, and it's just getting better every year. As far as the servers work, then fine.

SilencedScream0
03-19-2010, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Dellers:
I checked just now but according to the pirates themselves those are not working. So as of yet - the pirates can't play at all! I think this DRM is smart, as long as the pirates won't be able to crack it. Internet is available almost everywhere anyway, and it's just getting better every year. As far as the servers work, then fine.


I stand corrected.
warns that the missions are indeed missing

However, Silent Hunter 5 (which also has DRM) has a mix of people saying it does and does not work. I bring this up, because it shows that there is indeed a way around DRM. Just a matter of time.

wieetsguy
03-19-2010, 08:47 AM
I remember StarForce and Chaos Theory. however it was such a pain for many and in the end StarForce lost many customers after an employee of theirs decided to be and posted a link of a game on their forums.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Discussion of Piracy is against ToU and Forum Rules and will lead to an immediate ban.</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Miketavion
03-19-2010, 08:52 AM
That's good, until UBI gets rid of the DRM, their sales possibly be half of what they could be earning. More power to the PC users! (360 guy)

dann2004
03-19-2010, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by mensaap:
I just heard that conviction is going to use the same stupid DRM as assassins creed 2...

Seriously ubisoft, it's hurting your customers, we get * from behind, while you know that the game will be cracked, before or maybe just after release...

And what's worse, THEY'll have a better experience then the real customers, they won't have to deal with logins, internet connections, routers disconnecting, etc...

I won't be buying anymore of ubisoft's games until these DRM are seen for what they are, the only thing that they accomplish is:
- Making trading harder (I don't do that so...)
- Annoying your customers
- Excluding people without a decent internet connection
- Making you lose customers like me...
- Probably driving a lot of people to the console versions...


The absolute worst part of all of this will be that we the consumers can't win.

I don't buy it => I don't get to experience the game...
Someone else won't buy it, and will pirate the game => you guys say DAMN PIRATES
People will buy it => you guys say see it's working, let's keep this system!


Seriously just drop all DRM, it's useless, Ok what It sometimes does do is prevent the game from being cracked in advance...

Big whoop, it might even be better if it get's cracked in advance, a game should be good, and this is probly giving you free positive advertising...

Anyways, my money will now go towards EA, at least they are TRYING to be better



<span class="ev_code_RED">Reason for edit: Clarified title.</span> i could be wrong here but im sure someone said a few years ago that EA owns a percentage of ubi anyway so you may as well give it to them coz this coop will be better than army of 2.

dann2004
03-19-2010, 09:23 AM
cant belive pc gamers are such cheap skates christ you get the game for £10 less than console anyway.....just stop being so tight and buy the agme your all dying to play anyway.....it amazes me how tight so many people are....

thegreatsquare
03-20-2010, 09:06 AM
Does anyone else see the irony in a game named Conviction that has a DRM that considers buyers guilty <STRIKE>until proven innocent</STRIKE>?

I gamed for 4+hrs at work last night. I played Metro 2033, which I got instead of AC2. I have no internet connection at work. I can't ever buy any game with this DRM, I have almost a dozen Ubisoft games paid for. I supported them and now they have left me out to dry.

I can hardly wait to see the sales figures for AC2 on PC. I really doubt the DRM has converted pirates into buyers and I'm sure it has lost would be buyers like me who knew to avoid the game all together.

...I'm also sure that more have learned the hard way and we'll all apply what we know and avoid SSC and other Ubisoft games.

Gekkibi
03-20-2010, 09:57 AM
I might stuff my spoon to this thread as well. The true problem is that just about anyone can decided if the paying customers can or can't play the game (Ubisoft shuts down the server or someone DDoSes the server). It is also a poor feature to require constant internet connection, because some don't have adequate connection to uphold constant link to the server. It also prevents gaming when there is no internet connection available at all (I like to play with a laptop in my summer cabin if electricity goes away).

Some may think I might have some additional agendas due to the fact that I am supporter of Pirate Party, but to be honest I don't download movies/music/games from the internet. I have downloaded one torrent in my life, and that was completely legal linux distribution.

Here is game footage what happens when I don't have connection to the server (Server was down): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQA5P7BHosY

Here is satire video about the war between Ubisoft DRM and cracked version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCatXhi6lyY

TheDoci
03-20-2010, 03:48 PM
I hate all the DRMs related to the Internet.
Has Ubisoft thought about it before making a so stupid system ?

I understand the necessity of making protections, but there are at least two unbearable things :
1. We can't play without an internet connection. So, for example, when I go on vacation, I have no Internet ! And that's when I could play video games...
2. But above all, the most unbearable thing is the following : when Ubi will CLOSE it servers (in some years, let's say 5 or 6) or when the company will close, we could NOT PLAY THE GAME ANYMORE

So you will just have to throw your game to the garbage...


Please Ubi, make a patch that replaces those Internet-DRMs by a classic one

wozzawas
03-20-2010, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by thegreatsquare:
Does anyone else see the irony in a game named Conviction that has a DRM that considers buyers guilty <STRIKE>until proven innocent</STRIKE>?

I gamed for 4+hrs at work last night. I played Metro 2033, which I got instead of AC2. I have no internet connection at work. I can't ever buy any game with this DRM, I have almost a dozen Ubisoft games paid for. I supported them and now they have left me out to dry.

I can hardly wait to see the sales figures for AC2 on PC. I really doubt the DRM has converted pirates into buyers and I'm sure it has lost would be buyers like me who knew to avoid the game all together.

...I'm also sure that more have learned the hard way and we'll all apply what we know and avoid SSC and other Ubisoft games.

Doesn't Metro have to be activated by Steam.

Isanator
03-20-2010, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by thales.100:
I have played over 20 hours of AC2 without any issues, as long as pirates cant play the game i paid for, im very ok with this DRM, it makes my entertainment product worth ... more.
Lol theres already a crack for AC2 out, a lot of my friends are playing it xD..

thegreatsquare
03-21-2010, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by wozzawas:
Doesn't Metro have to be activated by Steam.

Yup, I bought it off of Steam. Steam has an off-line mode. You don't need to be on-line to use games on Steam, just to DL and activate it. From then on you can play off-line so long as you are actually online to Steam once every two weeks or so for any reason, you're good to go for all your installed games. [Except for those with DRM like Ubi's current]

So. Where I would of been willing spent $50 [I'd of waited for a sale as I won't support the idea of charging $60 for PC games] for AC2 on the PC, I ended up paying $50 for Metro 2033.

...oh yeah, Steam gave me Red Faction: Guerrilla for free with the pre-order of Metro.

I buy a lot of games. I have bought a lot of Ubisoft games on PC:

On Steam:
Beyond Good and Evil [For PC & PS2]
Avatar
Blazing Angels 1&2
Brothers in Arms 1-3
IL-2 Sturmovik 1946
Prince of Pesia: SoT, WW, TT, 4 [Both for the PC and either the PS2 or 360 respectively]
Silent Hunter 3
Silent Hunter 4: WotP/U-Boat Missions
Splinter Cell 3
World in Conflict
World in Conflict: Soviet Assault

Retail Store:
Far Cry 2
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic [Put on Steam for improved compatibility with Vista64]
Rainbow6: Vegas 1&2
Beowulf [Yup, even that crappy game I played for 30 seconds [the race at the start] before uninstalling it that doesn't have a message board on Ubi's site... just to let you know I'm not padding my list with what I can find.]

I guess I underestimated the amount of Ubisoft games I've bought. Now that I've done the count, my "almost a dozen Ubisoft games paid for" has turned into 22! I've supported Ubisoft 22 times and now they have crapped all over me.

...but anyway. Steam + Off-Line Mode = Me playing Metro 2033 and many other games without access to Internet connection.

...I do wish I could add Assassin's Creed 2, Splinter Cell: Conviction and the next Prince of Persia to my list of games on Steam, but there is no point in doing so.

kalle90
03-21-2010, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by TheDoci:
I hate all the DRMs related to the Internet.
Has Ubisoft thought about it before making a so stupid system ?

I understand the necessity of making protections, but there are at least two unbearable things :
1. We can't play without an internet connection. So, for example, when I go on vacation, I have no Internet ! And that's when I could play video games...
2. But above all, the most unbearable thing is the following : when Ubi will CLOSE it servers (in some years, let's say 5 or 6) or when the company will close, we could NOT PLAY THE GAME ANYMORE

So you will just have to throw your game to the garbage...


Please Ubi, make a patch that replaces those Internet-DRMs by a classic one

Exactly. If EA does this is wide scale as well, I'd believe most games become unplayable in 3-5 years.

Truthfully though most PC games become unplayable in 10 years either way unless you find a solution like DOSBOX

While talking about required internet connection, I would also like to talk about required discs. I only use a laptop and the biggest reason why I don't buy many PC games is that you need discs in tray to play. So either I hope there's a clean no-cd crack available or won't buy the game at all. Usually I go with the latter

SWATie
03-21-2010, 07:09 AM
Well, like I see the Ubisoft has a big problem. Moderators baning everyone who will speak about Pirating, but Iam sorry. You can ban everyone, that will not change the true that people will pirated that? Why? Well because Ubisoft acting against them. And sometimes is better take a pirated version because that original version is against customers.

Look on that logicaly: Why bouth a game where is too many securitis when I can ''take'' a pirated version where is non securitis? I will launched without any problems. I will not need any keys or still be connect to internet. I will take and play. If I will like it, maybe I will buy it. If not, I will delete it and I will another game. Its easy.

thegreatsquare
03-21-2010, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by SWATie:
Well, like I see the Ubisoft has a big problem. Moderators baning everyone who will speak about Pirating, but Iam sorry. You can ban everyone, that will not change the true that people will pirated that? Why? Well because Ubisoft acting against them. And sometimes is better take a pirated version because that original version is against customers.

Look on that logicaly: Why bouth a game where is too many securitis when I can ''take'' a pirated version where is non securitis? I will launched without any problems. I will not need any keys or still be connect to internet. I will take and play. If I will like it, maybe I will buy it. If not, I will delete it and I will another game. Its easy.

Somehow, I don't think pirates will buy the game if they can't pirate the game.

Pirates aren't lost sales.

I, on the other hand... I am a lost sale. I'm a lost sale to a company that I've been a paying customer for 22 of Ubisoft's PC titles for my own use.

In fact, I often give away games on another site.

http://www.overclock.net/freeb...eatgamegiveaway.html (http://www.overclock.net/freebies/622693-final-thegreatsquaress-thegreatgamegiveaway.html)
http://www.overclock.net/freeb...eatgamegiveaway.html (http://www.overclock.net/freebies/635701-usa-only-update-all-thegreatsquares-thegreatgamegiveaway.html)
http://www.overclock.net/freeb...n-arkham-asylum.html (http://www.overclock.net/freebies/687679-usa-only-update-batman-arkham-asylum.html)

You'll notice that I have bought Ubisoft's PC Titles for past giveaways. I have no use for a game that I can't play away from internet access and I wouldn't buy any game to give away with Ubi's DRM either.

Stop worrying about pirates not buying your games. Pirates aren't going to buy them anyway. People who would buy your games, but aren't, THAT is who you should be worried about Ubisoft.

Sam007Fisher
03-21-2010, 04:54 PM
Well, it's been a while since I last posted here. I abandonded these forums after Ubisoft took Splinter Cell and destroyed its roots...but more of that another time!

I -along with the entire South African gaming community- have to express my/our disgust at Ubisoft. They seem to have conviently forgotten that there are other countries besides for Canada and the United States!

Here in South Africa, our bandwidth is severely limited and Telkom (practically the sole service provider) has a vice grip on the alotment of bandwidth. Our connection speed is on average -for the "mere" cost $80 (R560) a month (phone and ADSL)- 368 KB per second and to top that off, the average amount of bandwidth per month allowed is 2 GB, unless you want to spend another $9 (R65) per extra GB.

To clarify: Yes I do have an internet connection, I may not be online all the time, but I can be should I desire so - at the expense of my limited bandwidth.

Now, my question is very simple. How much MB/GB will SCC (or any other Ubisoft title with this useless DRM) consume...per sec/minute/hour?

I was looking forward to purchasing AC2 and the new Prince of Persia...but because of this system -which will unfortunately probably still be in effect for a while http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif - I wont be able to enjoy them after purchasing those games LEGITIMATELY!

I along with many other PC gamers aren't pirates, nor do we desire to become ones. But honestly, Ubisoft, you can't blame some people for going that route because of your idiotic "anti-piracy" measures.

I hope that you (Ubisoft) will come to your senses and remove this Piracy Aiding DRM system, so that your - ever decreasing - PC market can at least -until the next insane DRM system is unleashed - enjoy your products.

Gekkibi
03-21-2010, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Sam007Fisher:
Now, my question is very simple. How much MB/GB will SCC (or any other Ubisoft title with this useless DRM) consume...per sec/minute/hour?

I asked the same question in Assassin's Creed forum and nobody who has real knowledge replied. Community estimated that aproximately couple of MB per hour. My estimated guess is little bit less than 100 MB per hour. But it might be just about anything.

Moderators said that it is possible to play using 64kbps connection. Not sure what do they say about 36.8kbps, 'tho.

LennyLilac
03-21-2010, 06:26 PM
36.8kbps? Who the hell has dial up anymore?

Gekkibi
03-21-2010, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by LennyLilac:
36.8kbps? Who the hell has dial up anymore?

Apparently whole South Africa?

LennyLilac
03-21-2010, 07:15 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/594274673.png

BTOG46
03-21-2010, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Gekkibi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sam007Fisher:
Now, my question is very simple. How much MB/GB will SCC (or any other Ubisoft title with this useless DRM) consume...per sec/minute/hour?

I asked the same question in Assassin's Creed forum and nobody who has real knowledge replied. Community estimated that aproximately couple of MB per hour. My estimated guess is little bit less than 100 MB per hour. But it might be just about anything.

Moderators said that it is possible to play using 64kbps connection. Not sure what do they say about 36.8kbps, 'tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was using the DRM back in January in the Settlers 7 beta, and although I didn't check the exact details, it used very little bandwidth.

I'm now trying the demo for Settlers 7 on a different connection, and I certainly used way less than your 100 MB per hour estimate.

In the demo for Settlers 7, the requirements are:
-Singleplayer: 56K (33.6 kBit/s upstream)
-Multiplayer: ISDN / DSL (128kBit/s upstream)

In single player, a 4 hour game on a 3G mobile broadband connection used less bandwidth than web browsing does for the same amount of time.

Gekkibi
03-21-2010, 07:26 PM
But you are not from South Africa. And your internet connection still sucks:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/756683464.png
(And I am still buying my games...)

LennyLilac
03-21-2010, 07:30 PM
lol, yeah my connection sure sucks. And if that is really your internet speed then why are you worried about 36.8kbps?

Gekkibi
03-21-2010, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by LennyLilac:
lol, yeah my connection sure sucks. And if that is really your internet speed then why are you worried about 36.8kbps?

I am not worrying because I couldn't handle it. I am worrying because someone might not handle it.

And ya, it really is my home internet connection. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sam007Fisher
03-22-2010, 07:14 AM
Whoops! Sorry everyone! It was really late when I posted that...about 2 am.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I accidentally added in a . so my bad for the confusion...it's 368kps....I'll go and edit that post now...

But my question still kinda stands...sorry mods for that error...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If Ubisoft is so "proud" of their DRM system, then they should document exactly what it will do to the PC gamers internet usage. But knowning them, they'll ignore everything the PC market has been telling them, and continue to blunder on in ignorance; and continue to lose PC gamers, which ironically seems to be the whole point of this DRM...to drive PC gamers towards piracy...ingenius Ubisoft...really smart... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Seems like Ubisoft are ditching the PC...time for find me another game publisher...