C Class Destroyer

[mw2000]

I just played the Courageous single player mission at 100% realism and I sunk the carrier in an VII U-Boat. Immediately after the sinking I turned the scope behind me and a destroyer was closing fast. I could not launch a torpedo so I crashed dived. I knew that I was a goner as he was in a good position to launch depth charges. But NO this destroyer just seemed to go round in circles over my position without any charges going off.

After a while I came to periscope depth and through the scope I managed to identify it as a C Class destroyer. I took it out with a stern torpedo and I wonder why it did not have depth charge racks on it. I throught all destroyers had ASW capability in the war. What is the point of having an escort that cannot attack submerged U-boats? Especially when it was supposed to protect an aircaft carrier. Is this class of destroyer accurate in the game as it was in real life? or else I must have a mod installed which has changed the way the ship operates. Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Dominicrigg]

British C Class destroyers are "All gun" destroyers. No ASW on them at all. They are designed to take on other destroyers and capital ships, but not Uboats.

Their should have been some more destroyers with ASW capabilities in the fleet which should have attacked you. The carrier should be able to carry out ASW also, with the aircraft dropping bombs/charges on you, but if you sank it that wont happen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/c_class.htm

Some pictures of some C class ships for you.

[TheRealWulfmann]

The C-Class DDs of SH3 are actually all the destroyers from A-I classes of which it is not quite right as the latter classes looked different.
All British DDs had DCs but some had more than others. This, IMO, was wrong to have a ship that attacks you but can not, well, attack you.
It is nothing but a target.
Fortunately, Serguto made a fix so my C-Class all have DCs.
This is very important because it allowed me to change the named DDs in the campaign to pick from all the DDs meaning when I see that lead DD I do not have any idea of the convoy's content.
Many of the A-D classes were converted to convoy escorts and these are incorrectly named River Class escorts a completely different ship in real life. Their DC complement was increased from 40 to 125 and they lost some guns as the River class (The River class was a different ship than SH3) portrays
The Devs are not naval history people and made a few mistakes.
Fleet escorts were required to protect the heavy warships from submarines and these not having DCs was not a good move, nor realistic. The fact some of these types did not have their racks in place before the war is irrelevant to them having them in the war!

Wulfmann

[Dominicrigg]

They actually didnt have racks during war either.

Check them out. Infact they were sold or given to Canada at wars end and canada made them anti submarine worthy in about 1960 i believe.

As i said they had no depth charge racks, they were surface combatants.

Some C class ships were converted to anti sub role along with some ships of other classes.

These were given the title of River Class ships.

This in game is a catch all class like the V & W class of ship in game.

Because they were so similar there is no need to make different ships in game for each, its a waste of time so they called one ship type V & W for both V & W class ships, similarly they made all River class the same.

The guy modding the game has actually just taken out a ship type, as River class ships are converted C class!

[TheRealWulfmann]

The River class in real life is nothing like it is in the game.
Look at the below drawings from Conways. The A&B class shown below has a drawing of the typical conversion done to A-H destroyers into convoy escorts
Look familiar?? This is what is called the River class in SH3.
Now look at the real River class which were Frigates (The Black Swan class were actaully sloops)
Doesn't look anything like the SH3 River, does it???

Sorry nearly every C-H class had DCs at the start of the war. Many did not in the 30s but all but a few had them after war was declared. It takes nothing to place these on a ship quickly and not essential in peace time.
They had 40 as a fleet DD and 125 when converted as above. They are useless in SH3 without DCs as they attack like they have them, it is stupid!!
Every war time photo has DCs but even if a few went a while without them the majority had them of A-H classes which this SH3 model represents
The only British built WWII escorts classed as Destroyer Escorts were the Hunt class. Those are destroyers in SH3.
It would have been just as easy to get these things right as make them wrong.

Wulfmann

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/riverclass.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/riverclass.jpg)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/absideview.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/absideview.jpg)

[Dominicrigg]

Maybe you are right bro! The book i have says otherwise but i know books are not always right, they are written by ordinary people like you and me. I wish i could find a janes fighting ships from the era. That would be so interesting, if they even made them then...

[TheRealWulfmann]

Janes would likely show them without DCs as war time mods may not show up right away, even ones installed at the very beginning like DC Racls.
I use to reference Janes but it is projection and not always right and sometimes way off..
Warships are not fully mobilized in peace time and easy to install things like DC racks only get in the way in peace time.
Look at the Tribal and J-class prewar photos. No DCs.
Then there is the simple logic that if there were a class that did not have them (It would have been Tribals, IMO) why iut them in SH3 as a destroyer that acts like it is attacking but can not and only place itself in harm's way for no good reason?????? If there were such a ship I would reclass it as a light cruiser so at least it did not pretend it could attack..
BTW, Look at the River class in the library and compare it to those two drawings.
You will be clear on the mistake by the Devs.

Wulfmann

[doug.d]

Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
Maybe you are right bro! The book i have says otherwise but i know books are not always right, they are written by ordinary people like you and me. I wish i could find a janes fighting ships from the era. That would be so interesting, if they even made them then...
I have Janes Fighting Ships 1940 and can check for you but am away on business for a few days. With all the cloak and dagger, spy vs spy, I won't show you mine even if you show me yours stuff going on in that period however, I found JFS 1940 to be inaccurate, a later post-war edition would be better. Brilliant pics and 'war-loss' section though! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Dominicrigg]

Cool! Look forward to that doug.


@ Wolf, yes i agree with you they shouldnt act like they are on a DC run. Thats a good idea to have given them Cruiser AI instead of destroyer AI! Wonder how hard it would be to mod them?

[TheRealWulfmann]

You can try changing them by editing the Roster and Sea files making all the Untit Type =6 from the 4 for DD. I do not know if that will cause a problem.If it does, change it back.
Or, PM me an email and I will send you the fix fro the CClass (Sergbutio made that) to have DCs (and the early armed trawler).
Then you can go to your RND file and edit all the convoys RND GRPs 61-118) so where ever there is a destroyer, eliminate the Class = CClass or DDClemson or whatever name and then the game will select from the ones available on that day. Those variations mean you can not predict what the convoy is from past experience as it will always have a different leader The order of placement is based on the type 4 being higher than 2,3,1,0 so DDs always lead (In real life a sloop would lead (called wrongly Frigates in SH3)
Sloops were slower the DDs but had better crew accommodations and the fuel to make the entire crossing. DDs usually met the convoy for the latter part of the crossing, this in the early years.
Many the early DDs like some C-Class were converted to convoy escorts and these had less armament but increased DCs and hedgehogs with added fuel.

Wulfmann