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Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 09:50 PM
well i tried 5 different driver versions and the results are the same
game is unplayable in its current state
anyone managed to get rid of that **** spray ruining the game?

a config tweak or sumfink to turn the **** off?
i can confirm its the same on my 6800 ultra aswell as my 5800ultra

what a pain in the ***

4 hours of driver testing resulting in nil gain
good work

anyone got a work around id love to hear it please

and whats with the graphic options in the game? there are none?
i tried with particle count off aswell or set to zero if you prefer,nada
man,,,,so much for immersion factor,,,at this stage,a big fat zero

i guess you can tell im a little peeved at yet another below par performance

Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 09:50 PM
well i tried 5 different driver versions and the results are the same
game is unplayable in its current state
anyone managed to get rid of that **** spray ruining the game?

a config tweak or sumfink to turn the **** off?
i can confirm its the same on my 6800 ultra aswell as my 5800ultra

what a pain in the ***

4 hours of driver testing resulting in nil gain
good work

anyone got a work around id love to hear it please

and whats with the graphic options in the game? there are none?
i tried with particle count off aswell or set to zero if you prefer,nada
man,,,,so much for immersion factor,,,at this stage,a big fat zero

i guess you can tell im a little peeved at yet another below par performance

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 09:57 PM
Haven't heard of any available fixes yet.
I am just hoping it is a 6800 only problem, and my lowly 5600 will work.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 10:06 PM
yes well thats just dandy....looks like another dud
im gonna swap back to my ancient Ti500 and see if thatll let me play this freaken game

oh and i made an error in my above post,,its the same on my 5900 ultra aswell

fizzer

malkuth
03-15-2005, 10:08 PM
Heard slowing down, or stopping will get rid of it.

Maybe you can verify?

Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 10:12 PM
well yes if your stopped its no problem,,but what the hell use is that????
stopping to id and fire on targets is just ridiculous

ive tried all forward speeds and any but stop are the same,

maybe ill try reverse as well?

altstiff
03-15-2005, 10:16 PM
Is this just while viewing with the UZO or with the periscope too?

Kosigan86
03-15-2005, 10:18 PM
Are there still problems even with the latest drivers? (71.84)

Charlie901
03-15-2005, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiVenge:
Haven't heard of any available fixes yet.
I am just hoping it is a 6800 only problem, and my lowly 5600 will work.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I've heard that it also effects the 5600 series cards. I want a fix and not a "workaround".

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie901:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiVenge:
Haven't heard of any available fixes yet.
I am just hoping it is a 6800 only problem, and my lowly 5600 will work.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've heard that it also effects the 5600 series cards. I want a fix and not a "workaround". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That really sucks. So, is the game truly unplayable? And is there any word about what can be done about it now, instead of the so called workaround expected in the so called first patch?
I sure hope this is just another 'panic of the day'.
Hopefully they won't just release a game that does not work properly on approx half the vid cards out there and tell everyone to wait for the patch ...
And hopefuly this does not make the game unplayable until the first patch.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Charlie901
03-15-2005, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiVenge:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie901:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiVenge:
Haven't heard of any available fixes yet.
I am just hoping it is a 6800 only problem, and my lowly 5600 will work.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've heard that it also effects the 5600 series cards. I want a fix and not a "workaround". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That really sucks. So, is the game truly unplayable? And is there any word about what can be done about it now, instead of the so called workaround expected in the so called first patch?
I sure hope this is just another 'panic of the day'.
Hopefully they won't just release a game that does not work properly on approx half the vid cards out there and tell everyone to wait for the patch ...
And hopefuly this does not make the game unplayable until the first patch.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



The game is far from unplayable, even with this bug. But it does ruin the immersion of looking through the Binos or UZO under magnification when at speed.

So far the only options are to stop the sub (when using UZO or Binos under magnification), don't use magnification, or don't use the Binos or Uzo when moving and using 1x greater magnification.

Again, Nvidia is notoriously slow to offer driver fixes but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for what the devlopers might be able to "FIX" regarding this issue.

Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 11:26 PM
ok i may have found something

there is a particle slider setting in the vid options
turn this to zero
then exit game and re launch it
i also checked and adjusted my card quality settings to very good 71.84 drivers
AA at 4 and AF at 8(was 16)

relaunched the game and,,,,,,wait for it,,,,,,,,,it appears i can now look through any of the binocs or master sight or periscope whilst the ship is moving at speeds,tried all except flank and reverse(forgot)
any the view appears to be clear now,,,,lemme know how the rest get on?

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 11:28 PM
What method did you use to change your drivers?
How did you go about it?

Simmoxx
03-15-2005, 11:46 PM
well i can hear them screaming now,,,,but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
i just overwrite the old ones as i had been changing the **** drivers all night,and was sick of it
so i couldnt be bothered going through the uninstall process again

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 11:51 PM
Thanks for teh reply, i know it must be hard to put down the game long enough to come post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

flyinj
03-16-2005, 12:14 AM
Wait, I'm confused...

Which part of that made the game playable? Every part? Particles to zero, AA and 4x AF at 8x, 71.84 drivers plus a restart of the game?

Or just the 71.84 drivers?

Silmar
03-16-2005, 12:22 AM
FYI a lot of people have been complaining that the 71.84 drivers make 6800 and 6600 owners PC completley lock up, most people are leaning towards staying with the 66 drivers.

Charos
03-16-2005, 12:22 AM
ALL this part:

"there is a particle slider setting in the vid options
turn this to zero
then exit game and re launch it
i also checked and adjusted my card quality settings to very good 71.84 drivers"

flyinj
03-16-2005, 12:28 AM
What I posted in the other Binoc bug thread:

So, it appears the only way to get rid of the bug, even with the latest drivers, is to have particles turned off.

And not just a simple "go to the options screen and turn off the particles for a second while I try to use my binoculars or UZO". A full restart of the game with the particles locked off for the entire game.

You know what this means? No explosions, no wakes, no sea spray, no depth charge splashes, no depth charge explosions... nothing. Those are ALL particles.

I can't BELIEVE that they somehow let this bug through. It effects all 5*** and 6*** series GeForce cards as well. They never tested these?

This is NOT NVidia's problem. This is their problem. Like I said before, no other game has any trouble scaling their particle systems. Just because you create a shoddy particle system that doesn't work correctly on NVidia hardware doesn't put the ball in NVidia's court to fix. And if they DO get around to fixing it, it's going to be a very long time before they do.

The developer has to fix this.

This isn't some little "The torpedoes are going 2kts slower than they should!" bug. This bug is huge, and a gamestopper in my opinion.

kilrathi36
03-16-2005, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyinj:
What I posted in the other Binoc bug thread:

So, it appears the only way to get rid of the bug, even with the latest drivers, is to have particles turned off.

And not just a simple "go to the options screen and turn off the particles for a second while I try to use my binoculars or UZO". A full restart of the game with the particles locked off for the entire game.

You know what this means? No explosions, no wakes, no sea spray, no depth charge splashes, no depth charge explosions... nothing. Those are ALL particles.

I can't BELIEVE that they somehow let this bug through. It effects all 5*** and 6*** series GeForce cards as well. They never tested these?

This is NOT NVidia's problem. This is their problem. Like I said before, no other game has any trouble scaling their particle systems. Just because you create a shoddy particle system that doesn't work correctly on NVidia hardware doesn't put the ball in NVidia's court to fix. And if they DO get around to fixing it, it's going to be a very long time before they do.

The developer has to fix this.

This isn't some little "The torpedoes are going 2kts slower than they should!" bug. This bug is huge, and a gamestopper in my opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, if all you say its true, then this is a serious bug and a problem. It almost makes you wonder, did anyone test this game with this range of Nvidia cards? I own ATI card thus I have been not really following this nvidia issue because I thought latest drivers fixed this. But if this bug remains and its true it can only be fixed by developer with patch then just wow.

kilrathi36
03-16-2005, 01:49 AM
Here is something official I found from:

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/tip_sh3.html

UPDATE: 3/11/05 - It is Official from the Romanian SH3 dev team:

We found a workaround for that NVidia bug (that will not allow you to use UZO and Binoculars) . We assigned a key (Ctrl+P) to temporary disable the particles from game (like an on/off button). So anyone will be able to see through the UZO and binoculars now (this will be available in the first patch). You could switch on/off the particle effect at any time in game.

Now, correct me if I am wrong but do the developer team mean they are going to add the turn on/off particles on the fly option in game in first patch instead of actually fixing the problem? So are they planning to fix it in second patch???

s7e6e
03-16-2005, 01:51 AM
it's gonna be fixed, do not worry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

flyinj
03-16-2005, 01:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kilrathi36:
Here is something official I found from:

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/tip_sh3.html

_UPDATE: 3/11/05 - It is Official from the Romanian SH3 dev team:

We found a workaround for that NVidia bug (that will not allow you to use UZO and Binoculars) . We assigned a key (Ctrl+P) to temporary disable the particles from game (like an on/off button). So anyone will be able to see through the UZO and binoculars now (this will be available in the first patch). You could switch on/off the particle effect at any time in game._

Now, correct me if I am wrong but do the developer team mean they are going to add the turn on/off particles on the fly option in game in first patch instead of actually fixing the problem? So are they planning to fix it in second patch??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What they are saying is, instead of actually fixing it, they will allow you to turn off all particles in the game until NVidia gets around to adapting their drivers to run with SH3's shoddy particle engine. The previous statement says that NVidia "may" adapt their drivers.

I don't think they want to fix their own broken code. And from that statement, it looks like they have no intention of doing so.

They need to fix this, and they need to fix it now. How did the game ever ship with such a huge, glaring bug? There are two ways to engage ships... periscope and UZO. One of the two attack options is completely nullified by their inability to create a stable particle generation system, and they consider it just a minor bug that NVidia "may" fix?

kilrathi36
03-16-2005, 02:00 AM
I haven't seen Devs actually point out this is NVIDIA's fault, but if it is, then please make sure that is highlighted so that users know who to blame for this.

Silmar
03-16-2005, 02:03 AM
This really needs addressing. I hope Ubi doesn't dust it under the rug and hope this issue goes away. It cannot be a driver bug, no other game with particles has this issue.

flyinj
03-16-2005, 02:04 AM
"The manufacturer is aware of the problem and it may be solved in the future driver versions."

is what they have to say about the NVidia problem.

Looks like a blatant cop-out to me.

flyinj
03-16-2005, 02:07 AM
Also, it should be noted again, that this isn't a "6800 GT" bug. This is a bug that effects ALL nvidia boards except the GeForce 4 line.

So, in other words, only the shoddiest of the NVidia baords can run this game correctly.

Silmar
03-16-2005, 02:11 AM
Didnt the dev's have one single nvidia 5-6 series card to test with??? Unbelievable...

Simmoxx
03-16-2005, 02:21 AM
at the moment im opening all the config files to see if i can find the spray line
and theres some interesting stuff in there i found that hasnt been activated either,,,
anyway,i havent been able to get rid of the spray effect as yet,mainly cause i cant locate which one it may be yet?
still looking

KiwiVenge
03-16-2005, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simmoxx:
at the moment im opening all the config files to see if i can find the spray line
and theres some interesting stuff in there i found that hasnt been activated either,,,
anyway,i havent been able to get rid of the spray effect as yet,mainly cause i cant locate which one it may be yet?
still looking <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would be great if it was this easy.
I can easily live without spray on my lens, as long as particles were used everywhere else.

rjuergens
03-16-2005, 02:24 AM
Please consider following:

1. All programmers nowadays do not fiddle with their own graphic features but rely on a common library which they invoke. This means they simply call DirectX-Methods and hopefully they function properly.

2. But then it is up to the graphic card vendors to guarantee a proper implementation of promised features. Here it appears that nVidia startet to mess up things with the introduction of their newest hardware (6800). SH2 for example was completely unplayable.

For me it is the same sad experience as I obtained my 6800 recently for some good reasons and am therefore reluctant to revert to anything else.

But I also found out that up to 4 kts speed I would recognize enough to use UZO and binoculars. Gladly I experience no problems with the periscope. (using 71.84 driver from original nVidia site)

Silmar
03-16-2005, 02:30 AM
I thought this problem can be reproduced with nVidoa 5 and 6 series cards? Wouldnt all games suffer this problem with particles??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rjuergens:
Please consider following:

1. All programmers nowadays do not fiddle with their own graphic features but rely on a common library which they invoke. This means they simply call DirectX-Methods and hopefully they function properly.

2. But then it is up to the graphic card vendors to guarantee a proper implementation of promised features. Here it appears that nVidia startet to mess up things with the introduction of their newest hardware (6800). SH2 for example was completely unplayable.

For me it is the same sad experience as I obtained my 6800 recently for some good reasons and am therefore reluctant to revert to anything else.

But I also found out that up to 4 kts speed I would recognize enough to use UZO and binoculars. Gladly I experience no problems with the periscope. (using 71.84 driver from original nVidia site) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

flyinj
03-16-2005, 02:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rjuergens:
Please consider following:

1. All programmers nowadays do not fiddle with their own graphic features but rely on a common library which they invoke. This means they simply call DirectX-Methods and hopefully they function properly.

2. But then it is up to the graphic card vendors to guarantee a proper implementation of promised features. Here it appears that nVidia startet to mess up things with the introduction of their newest hardware (6800). SH2 for example was completly unplayable.

For me it is the same sad experience as I obtained my 6800 recently for some good reasons and am therefore reluctant to revert to anything else.

But I also found out that up to 4 kts speed I would recognize enough to use UZO and binoculars. Gladly I experinece no problems with the periscope. (using 71.84 driver from original nVidia site) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd buy this... if I'd seen particle problems in any of the other 25+ games I've played on my GeForce 6800. And many of those games had actual "water spray" particles coming off of boats, and I was zooming my viewpoint through them (Far Cry, for instance).

I know what I'm talking about when it comes to particle systems and implementation of them. I've worked on the particle systems in several games.

Also, this effects the 5900Ultra as well, as illustrated by the starter of this thread who tried putting his old one in and seeing the exact same problem. I seriously doubt the problem doesn't exist on the 5600, or any other NVidia board 5x or above.

Strange how Neal who wrote the SubSim review has a GeForce 4. Maybe he was the only person the developers knew who had an NVidia board.

KiwiVenge
03-16-2005, 02:37 AM
I am not going to get worked up about it. I get the game soon, I will try it. If it does not work with my 5600 and it is unplayable, then back to the store for a refund it goes.
If it is enjoyable, then I keep it.

Simmoxx
03-16-2005, 03:26 AM
ok look,far be it from me to say its unplayable for the masses
it is just me that cant play the game in the current condition
its ok with particles off,bearing in mind you lose all effects
look for targets with your binocs on the move is the only problem,but,for me,that is enough to warrant me shelving the experieince til someone with better skills than i,can get it sorted

the actual graphics and gameplay seems to be brilliant and should be worth waiting til the teething troubles are sorted.

sav112
03-16-2005, 04:30 AM
well I'm waiting on the game (ordered through play.com) and it will be going straight back if its just a pain or looks a mess to play.

The usual report comes out after most have bought it. I'm still not that sure now about the game and I like Sims, how do they expect people that have not tried sub sims to try it when its all over the net it has a problem and one of my friends was waiting for me to get the game to see it but ordered it then cancelled it the other day so that one less sale.

rabu2u
04-24-2005, 04:10 PM
I'm having trouble too, with my Nvidea GForce FX5200 128mb Dell card which had the latest Dell drivers installed. I was getting graphics distortion, triangle shapes when fireing a torpedo in the small window, and in the front view, and the white foam had a grid like pattern to it. I updated the drivers to the newest Nvidea v71.89 and now the distortions are gone, BUT when I try to look through the UZO it's all almost white and the mouse cursor slows way down and it takes about 20 seconds to go to another post, like the bridge, etc.