Red Dead Redemption

[SplinterSpelBer]

I have heard a lot of "Stop playing SCC, start RDR, it's much more fun" on this forum. Now, I own both games and the first time I used Dead Eye it immediately reminded me of Mark & Execute. But even more overpowered. Do you hate RDR for having something similar of Mark&Execute?

[NL.Edic]

It's not overpowered, in RDR the ground is never flat, when you are on a horse and you are escaping the ground levels between you and the target change rapidly making it harder to target. Also if you have seen the movie Once Upon A Time In The West (1968) you see after like 12 minutes in to the movie that the guy shoots 3 guys down, with 3 bullets and they all fall on the ground almost at the same time.

Not mentioning all the wildlife in RDR that can get you killed in matter of seconds if you didn't have access to this feature. I've experienced attacks from 5 bears at once, 10 wolves, cougars are crazy animals too. SCC is nothing compared to this.

[rysyn]

It's a completely different game.... you cannot compare splinter cell with red dead... It's just stupid if you do. RDR is fun to me, but splinter cell is fun too.

[NakedCity]

If you're going to hate a video game for having similarities to another title, even if those similarities are quiet a stretch, you probably wont find a game you'll enjoy.

Both games a third person, should we hate them for ripping off Resident Evils 4's amazing take on third person shooting?

Should we hate Splinter Cell for being a tactical espionage game like Metal Gear Solid?

If so, we should definitely hate Read Dead Redemption for ripping off Sun Set Riders on the sega, because it had trains, cowboys and gunslingers.

Nothing in this world is 100% unique, all art, be it films, music, television, video games, books are all influenced by other art within their medium and even outside their medium.

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

Originally posted by NakedCity:
If you're going to hate a video game for having similarities to another title, even if those similarities are quiet a stretch, you probably wont find a game you'll enjoy.

Both games a third person, should we hate them for ripping off Resident Evils 4's amazing take on third person shooting?

Should we hate Splinter Cell for being a tactical espionage game like Metal Gear Solid?

If so, we should definitely hate Read Dead Redemption for ripping off Sun Set Riders on the sega, because it had trains, cowboys and gunslingers.

Nothing in this world is 100% unique, all art, be it films, music, television, video games, books are all influenced by other art within their medium and even outside their medium.

"It's not where you got it from, it's where you take it"

[ryanwag]

The dead eye in RDR is much better tho because well for me i only used dead eye when i really needed to aim good is all...like to disable a running person...or to shoot someones gun away...or save someone from a gunman..but M&E on Conviction is just to clear multiple enemies at once..

[Crucify Lucifer]

Originally posted by rysyn:
It's a completely different game.... you cannot compare splinter cell with red dead... It's just stupid if you do. RDR is fun to me, but splinter cell is fun too.

It's like saying Call of Duty multiplayer is better than Alan Wake. RDR is much more expansive and has a much higher replay value than SCC, that's about it. They are both decent in their own rights.

Oh right and to answer the OP, M&E and Dead Eye are almost nothing alike. They both give godly powers to the character, but that's about it. Dead Eye is a spur of the moment ability, something you use in a fight when you're outnumbered or near dead. M&E is a strategic move that is carefully used to elminate enemies that will potentially give your position away if you try to make a move or when they are sticking together in groups. Besides, Dead Eye takes real skill to operate at level 3.

And why is no one comparing this to V.A.T.S. from Fallout 3?

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

It's been compared extensively to VATS numerous times.

It's just that RDR was released recently.

[CoastalGirl]

M&E might make things easier, when/if you can use it, but it's nothing compared to Dead Eye. Aside from DE working like a get out of jail free card, nearly pausing the game so you take out a bunch of guys, while they're shooting at you, you don't even have to "earn" it; you can use it over and over (until you run out of the items that restore it, anyway).

I think RDR's an awesome game, though, and I don't even like a lot of the key features (I hate shooters, I hate killing animals, I'm not particularly fond of westerns...). I don't see why it should be compared to SCC, though - they're totally different.



Originally posted by Ulqui4rra:
Besides, Dead Eye takes real skill to operate at level 3. I dunno about that...if I can manage, it can't be that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

[shotpower]

Red Dead Redemption is the sequel to Red Dead Revolver. Red Dead Revolver did Dead Eye ages ago, way way way before Splinter Cell Conviction was probably even thought of....

[I_Redemptionx_I]

Originally posted by shotpower:
Red Dead Redemption is the sequel to Red Dead Revolver. Red Dead Revolver did Dead Eye ages ago, way way way before Splinter Cell Conviction was probably even thought of....

This.

It's an old feature.

[NL.Edic]

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
M&E might make things easier, when/if you can use it, but it's nothing compared to Dead Eye. Aside from DE working like a get out of jail free card, nearly pausing the game so you take out a bunch of guys, while they're shooting at you, you don't even have to "earn" it; you can use it over and over (until you run out of the items that restore it, anyway).
The game doesn't pause in SCC, but you are still marking while looking under a door, looking down while hanging on a pipe, looking from behind a window. In RDR I only use DE when I know if I don't use it I most likely end up dead, and thats probably the biggest difference too like mentioned before. In SCC it's tactical advantage over enemies like we already saw from marking in R6 Vegas, but in RDR you can't stand in middle of 6 guys, enter DE and mark & shoot them because by the time you turned around 360 degrees and marked them your DE already run out.

Not mentioning the fact you only see such group meetings only in SCC like the one in my sig, so if they had DE in SCC it would be a "jail free card"

Also in case of SCC, if they didn't 'introduced' M&E SCC would look like "another shooter game" that didn't introduce anything we haven't seen before. Now it looks slightly different from games like CoD.

[iamthechaos]

Originally posted by rysyn:
It's a completely different game.... you cannot compare splinter cell with red dead... It's just stupid if you do. RDR is fun to me, but splinter cell is fun too.

Well no, actually he is talking about a feature of each game...he is not comparing the two games.
It is stupid if you think he is comparing them...

[Aveelo]

In two game Mark & Execute\Dead Eye are overpowered. but is cool and fun i not hate Mark & Execute\Dead Eye

[SplinterSpelBer]

I want to make some things clear.
First, I am not comparing both games. But I often read here that you totally love RDR, and you completely hate SCC. Especially it's M&E.
I just want to know if you hate RDR for having Dead Eye. And it gives the same abilities like M&E.
SCC; mark - mark - mark - EXECUTE
RDR; Dead Eye - mark - mark - mark - EXECUTE

If you're playing co-op and your partner is using melee frequently, just like you, you have a "regenerating" execute function, just like Dead Eye. Their practical uses are very similar, and I don't say it's a rip-off, but if you hate SCC for having M&E, you should hate RDR for having Dead Eye. (don't tell me about all the reasons you hate SCC. I know aaaaall your reasons, really. Read them 1000 times here, on this forum)

[fraggu1]

Originally posted by SplinterSpelBer:
Their practical uses are very similar, and I don't say it's a rip-off, but if you hate SCC for having M&E, you should hate RDR for having Dead Eye.

Just because it's nice in one game, doesn't mean it is in another. It just doesn't match the splinter cell gameplay. Where's the thrill of sneaking past a group of guards when you know, the second they detect you, you just press a button and everyone's instantly dead. It's just a bad decision to make sam fisher this strong, it takes away all the tension that you had when playing the old splinter cell games.

so, there are some similarities between dead eye and m&e, but also a lot of differences. the biggest difference is, that it matches the style and adds to the atmosphere in red dead redemption, while doing the exact opposite in splinter cell.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Originally posted by Aveelo:
In two game Mark & Execute\Dead Eye are overpowered. but is cool and fun i not hate Mark & Execute\Dead Eye I Agree http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

However, I don't play RDR... don't really like Rockstar games. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

[whiteout2010]

I find it funny that RDR found a way to include their Dead Eye AND also have a competitive multiplayer lmao... Ubisoft said they couldnt figure out how to do it!!!

[xXassassinXx92]

GOTY

[KenTWOu]

Originally posted by shotpower:
Red Dead Redemption is the sequel to Red Dead Revolver. Red Dead Revolver did Dead Eye ages ago, way way way before Splinter Cell Conviction was probably even thought of....

Red Dead Revolver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Revolver) - release date - May 2004
Desperados: Wanted Dead Or Alive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(Desperados)#Characters) - release date - 2001

Quote frome Wikipedia:

John Cooper - the leader of the gang... can shoot three men within a second...

For instance, Cooper, by programming his revolver with Quick Action, can either concentrate all three shots he can fire on a single opponent or divide them between up to three targets without having to move the mouse icon around.
This Quick Action feature looks like Mark & Execute only with three marks. But Desperados is real-time isometric tactical strategy with elements of stealth like Commandos and it wasn't so popular.

I played this game in 2002 and even I forgot about this Quick Action feature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[cornSmoker]

I dont mind red dead having deadeye or anything similar to mark and execute because its not a stealth game, BUT splinter cell conviction was a joke, it wasnt even splinter cell anymore, and for ubisoft too add such a easy aiming device to the game was very dumb, splinter cell was a stealth game, and assault was always the 2nd option, never the first...anyway conviction was horrible and ubisoft is a bad company now.

[newhenpal]

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
you don't even have to "earn" it

The same can be said of Conviction. It's true that you have to "earn" marks, but "earning" consists of killing a guard with a CQC move, which is very easy even on realistic difficulty.

[Crucify Lucifer]

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulqui4rra:
Besides, Dead Eye takes real skill to operate at level 3.

I dunno about that...if I can manage, it can't be that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh I guess real skill was a poor choice of words http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Just that with M&E, all you have to do is click on Sonar and hit RB in that enemy's vicinity. But with Dead Eye, you actually have to pick out body parts manually during it and that can be tedious at times. Fun, but tedious.

[I_Redemptionx_I]

Originally posted by KenTWOu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shotpower:
Red Dead Redemption is the sequel to Red Dead Revolver. Red Dead Revolver did Dead Eye ages ago, way way way before Splinter Cell Conviction was probably even thought of....

Red Dead Revolver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Revolver) - release date - May 2004
Desperados: Wanted Dead Or Alive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(Desperados)#Characters) - release date - 2001

Quote frome Wikipedia:

John Cooper - the leader of the gang... can shoot three men within a second...

For instance, Cooper, by programming his revolver with Quick Action, can either concentrate all three shots he can fire on a single opponent or divide them between up to three targets without having to move the mouse icon around.
This Quick Action feature looks like Mark & Execute only with three marks. But Desperados is real-time isometric tactical strategy with elements of stealth like Commandos and it wasn't so popular.

I played this game in 2002 and even I forgot about this Quick Action feature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does a strategy game have to do with anything?

Red Dead revolver was basically the first (to me knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) to incorporate it into a shooter. As many said before - no one would care for M&E in any other game but this is a STEALTH game. The focus should not be on killing.

[icenutzz]

The little i played of conviction i didnt use M&E and i dont use dead eye i RDR.

Both are poo

[MinusII]

At leas in conviction you cant M&E enemy spies in multiplayer like you can dead-eye mark and execute other ppl in RDR. i can go 10.0+ KDR just getting a bolt action rifle and dead-eye owning ppl in gang shootouts.

its very easy, but it adds alot to the game, single player anyway.

In fact i think a system more like RDR dead-eye rank 3, would be more awesome then the normal M&E here in conviction, be able to target specific body parts of enemies, or put all 4 marks on 1, ex: kneecap, kneecap, shoulder, shoulder.

Mind you the AI in RDR is way softer then SCC, one rifle round to a mobs leg can take him out sometimes, where as you can put 14 rounds in a guys chest in SCC and still not kill, or even knock him down...

Minus

[Quiet_Professor]

The Dead Eye feature in RDR is more like the VATS system in Fallout 3. Since it slows down time and allows you to target any specific part of the body, the weapon their holding, and areas of the environment. Not to mention, you can still get hurt while using it. Pretty much just like VATS except it doesn't completely stop time.

[darkghost1995]

splinter cells a joke compare to red dead redemption move the dead eye level to 3 and you have to aim where you hit them and stuff whilst in splintercell I mark,mark,mark,mark melee a guy while everyone shooting me cuz i'm some superman and then press y and all the gaurds stop firing at me and just yell a swear word as they're shot, just to make ubisoft sound mature....

[NL.Edic]

Originally posted by MinusII:
In fact i think a system more like RDR dead-eye rank 3, would be more awesome then the normal M&E here in conviction, be able to target specific body parts of enemies, or put all 4 marks on 1, ex: kneecap, kneecap, shoulder, shoulder.

Minus
Except that if Ubisoft used Euphoria along with the RAGE engine it would be fun otherwise not. This is why when you shoot guys in their shoulders in GTA IV or RDR they end up turning around from the impact or when you shoot them in the legs they fall and so on. You also see this very clearly when you walk to your horse with bit too much enthusiasm you see your character kind of absorb the impact by hugging the horse.

For people who don't know what I mean here a video of Euphoria Psychics Engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87qdmuOesRs

This actually makes all of the other games not using it instantly outdated to me but there is nothing to do about it, it's also expensive.

[Erico360]

dead eye is from red dead revolver....

[sikrob316]

Originally posted by NakedCity:
If you're going to hate a video game for having similarities to another title, even if those similarities are quiet a stretch, you probably wont find a game you'll enjoy.

Both games a third person, should we hate them for ripping off Resident Evils 4's amazing take on third person shooting?

Should we hate Splinter Cell for being a tactical espionage game like Metal Gear Solid?

If so, we should definitely hate Read Dead Redemption for ripping off Sun Set Riders on the sega, because it had trains, cowboys and gunslingers.

Nothing in this world is 100% unique, all art, be it films, music, television, video games, books are all influenced by other art within their medium and even outside their medium.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

[CoastalGirl]

Originally posted by NL.Edic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
M&E might make things easier, when/if you can use it, but it's nothing compared to Dead Eye. Aside from DE working like a get out of jail free card, nearly pausing the game so you take out a bunch of guys, while they're shooting at you, you don't even have to "earn" it; you can use it over and over (until you run out of the items that restore it, anyway). The game doesn't pause in SCC, but you are still marking while looking under a door, looking down while hanging on a pipe, looking from behind a window. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's because of the stealth focus. It's easy to use M&E if you're playing stealthily, but it won't save you if you've been detected out in the open, and need to take out several guys that aren't already marked.


In RDR I only use DE when I know if I don't use it I most likely end up dead, and thats probably the biggest difference too like mentioned before. I use DE all the time.

M&E I don't use much at all, though. I used it for the PEC challenges, but with my style of play it's hardly ever needed (sometimes it's less frustrating to just accept it and play through the section the way they want me to instead of trying to sneak, but other than that, I really don't mess with it).


In SCC it's tactical advantage over enemies like we already saw from marking in R6 Vegas, but in RDR you can't stand in middle of 6 guys, enter DE and mark & shoot them because by the time you turned around 360 degrees and marked them your DE already run out. Depends on how many guys... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd have to try pretty hard (or mess up pretty badly) to get surrounded in RDR, though; I'm on my second playthrough and it really hasn't happened yet. I've certainly died many times, but not from being surrounded, per se...unless grizzlies count.


Also in case of SCC, if they didn't 'introduced' M&E SCC would look like "another shooter game" that didn't introduce anything we haven't seen before. Now it looks slightly different from games like CoD. Though I wouldn't ever call SCC a hardcore stealth game (aside from infiltration, maybe), it's certainly a lot more stealthy than a typical shooter (from what I understand, anyway...otherwise I'd be playing them).



Originally posted by newhenpal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
you don't even have to "earn" it The same can be said of Conviction. It's true that you have to "earn" marks, but "earning" consists of killing a guard with a CQC move, which is very easy even on realistic difficulty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But still, I think they're meant to be used in different situations. M&E rewards preparation (even if it is easy to earn and use, it's much more about planning than DE is, IMO), and is pretty useless in open combat if you haven't already marked everyone, and have the token waiting to go. If you're behind cover...sure, it's easy enough to use in combat. But still, IMO it's nothing compared to DE, which can save you out in the open, at any time.



Originally posted by Ulqui4rra:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulqui4rra:
Besides, Dead Eye takes real skill to operate at level 3. I dunno about that...if I can manage, it can't be that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Eh I guess real skill was a poor choice of words http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Just that with M&E, all you have to do is click on Sonar and hit RB in that enemy's vicinity. But with Dead Eye, you actually have to pick out body parts manually during it and that can be tedious at times. Fun, but tedious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>With DE, I just keep pressing the button as I sweep across the enemies, until they're all tagged - I don't bother with precise aiming if I'm under fire. It's nice that it allows it, though.

[KenTWOu]

Originally posted by I_Redemptionx_I:
What does a strategy game have to do with anything?

Red Dead revolver was basically the first (to me knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) to incorporate it into a shooter. As many said before - no one would care for M&E in any other game but this is a STEALTH game. The focus should not be on killing.
1) Desperados: Wanted Dead Or Alive is a STEALTH game too.
2) RDR and D:WDoA - both games about cowboys. And both of them are trying to imitate something like fanning shooting technique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanning_(firearms)). And D:WDoA did it first.