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mofomouse
06-16-2007, 06:12 PM
Dear Ubi and Red storm padawans.

Id like to point out some things that might help you make more cash in the future.

My first advice would be to listen to 100000 players around here(or should i say 5000? since rest left).

Then Id like you to find the ppl you fired from redstorm - yeah I mean the ones that alpha tested Raven Shield and kindly ask them to come back to work for you for 10x the salary.

After that Id like you to throw urselfs into a wall and think ... "HEY THEY STILL PLAY RVS AND NOBODY PLAYS LOCKDOWN OR VEGAS WHAT THE HELL"

After that Id like you to fire every person involved in marketing - appearantly they bought their education or sth because they ruined RainbowSix series with lame quality gameplay and super new game engine just for some 10 idiots around the world that would really play it on their Xbox.

When you are done with your HR stuff Id like you too take a closer look into the market and see that gameplay is everything and while you are doing this you may notice that some support for games is more then you even put into the game while its developed.

At this point Id like you to wonder how much cash and work you dumped into trash just because you though "Lets give them good looking **** and it will sell".

If you still fail to see my point Id like you to release an SDK for Raven Shield and go kindly...

R6 gamer.

Snipe4Me
06-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Well... surely, everyone is entitled to his own opinion!

Well done lad.

Noobspwner
06-17-2007, 12:12 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">[CONTENT REMOVED]

Do not pass the forum language filter.

-Fox
Forum Moderator</span>

asianprince213
06-17-2007, 04:39 AM
ubi is hopeless, drop all attempts to persuade money hungry bureaucrats on a power trip. you will fail. google blackfoot studio for an independent company that doesn't thrive on the murder of once-great game franchises. i'm a member on their forum and from the limited info and screenshots they released of their barely alpha product, it is looks about twice as good graphically and performance wise as any ubi game can and ever will achieve. i can be certain of this because ubi refuses to optimize their games. maybe rayman might run as smoothly, but we're not 12 anymore.

RLCSeMPeRFi
06-17-2007, 11:33 AM
Even Rayman is bugged and unplayable in spots.

Lasher-M-
06-19-2007, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by mofomouse:
After that Id like you to throw urselfs into a wall and think ... "HEY THEY STILL PLAY RVS AND NOBODY PLAYS LOCKDOWN OR VEGAS WHAT THE HELL"


This and other comments like this really don't help or are of any use at all.

RVS is out of print and can bring in no more profits for UBI.
R6:V is still in stores and still selling.. (to who and why I don't know)

If you wanted to make money which product would you choose out of the two listed above. Ok now that you though about it for almost 3 seconds. You now know what UBI is thinking when they make games now.

"We Don't want to make the games so well and with the option for the community to build and grow upon it. We dont want the lifespan of our games to last aslong as 3 years. We need them to last 10-14 months tops, just long enough so we can produce an expansion or a whole new title in the line and there by creating sales for the new expansion and at the same time boosting the sales of the older product. We will make the expansion or next title so that the consumer needs to purchase the origonal product in order to use the new game"

They have done this in the past with the other R6 titles and now are at it with GRAW 2. From the games I have played and the majority of reports. GRAW 2 is new stand alone game that is really just a copy of GRAW less some of the bugs.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 07:57 AM
I think its a valid point that people still play RVS and far less play Lockdown and Vegas.

To imply that UBI KNEW that Rvs was going to last over 4 years i think is a bit naive. To imply that UBI KNEW that Lockdown and Vegas would not last more than a few months is also naive.

I wont pretend to understand UBI's motivation like others here who seem to have it all figured out but its very clear that the longevity of the first 3 R6's is what prompted people to buy Lockdown and Vegas. Meaning they had the expectation that Vegas and Lockdown would ALSO last a relatively long time.

So indirectly, Rvs CAN and DOES still bring in profits for UBI.

This is going to obviously have some consequences and those consequences are highlighted in this forum every day.

Also, I think we should reserve judgement about BFS planned release until we actually see something tangible other than screens of still images and guns. Dont get me wrong, i have the utmost faith that they will get it done but whether it is ever published is a different story. I really really hope it makes it.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by nebula25x:
To imply that UBI KNEW that Rvs was going to last over 4 years i think is a bit naive. To imply that UBI KNEW that Lockdown and Vegas would not last more than a few months is also naive.

I disagree.

I think these two games are products of totally different development and marketing mentalities.

I think times have changed and someone presented a philosophy that was designed to boost profits. And I think the plan worked in the short term but was still flawed in consideration of long term goals. Because you can only screw people and get away with it over a short period of time. In the long run... people remember being burned and who burned them.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 09:33 AM
So are you saying that if Vegas worked flawlessly on your pc with no crashes, no bugs, no glitches whatsoever AND the multiplayer was fully functional that this game would STILL only last a few months? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Are you indirectly saying UBI intentionally bugged the game to drive fans away?

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 09:47 AM
I'm saying UBI didn't care.

Their actions, which we have all clearly and undeniably witnessed, has shown their level of committment.

RvS had committment. It worked, it was bugged, it got patched. How many patches did it get? All within weeks of each other over the course of what.... 8 or 10 months? And now it's still being played because it's a great game. Interest was maintained because there was a support plan behind it.

Nobody stood behind Vegas and said 'don't worry fellas, we'll get this working'. Or if they did they were lying. There was no support plan for Vegas. And because there wasn't it's days were numbered upon release. You think that was an accident? You think someone at UBI is going to show up for work one morning, check his email and go "Holy ****... I forgot all about that game!"

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 09:54 AM
Raven Shield was patched from 1.0 to 1.6.
And its impossible for those patches to be "weeks apart" over a 10 month period. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The patches for vegas have been similarly spaced, the problem is they just arent fixing the major issues.

I dont disagree that UBI may be shifting their focus to consoles. If so, so be it, ill move on. Im just saying no matter how good their marketing team is, they CANT predict the future. There is no way they could have known vegas for pc would have all the problems it does.

Whether they planned on supporting it or not is another issue. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Lasher-M-
06-19-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by nebula25x:
I think its a valid point that people still play RVS and far less play Lockdown and Vegas.

To imply that UBI KNEW that Rvs was going to last over 4 years i think is a bit naive. To imply that UBI KNEW that Lockdown and Vegas would not last more than a few months is also naive.

I wont pretend to understand UBI's motivation like others here who seem to have it all figured out but its very clear that the longevity of the first 3 R6's is what prompted people to buy Lockdown and Vegas. Meaning they had the expectation that Vegas and Lockdown would ALSO last a relatively long time.

So indirectly, Rvs CAN and DOES still bring in profits for UBI.

RVS was the last title to have a Editor released with the retail game. Releasing an editor instantly increases the games lifespan. RVS and AS both recieved large support where as Lock/Vegas have not. You think UBI was in any way uncertain as to how this would effect the longevity of the game?

And they had expected the RVS series to live on longer than it had. Only to conclude later that releasing another expansion wouldn't earn them more proffit. Enter the "free" release of Iron Wrath a fully functional game ready for printing and marketing.

Who's being naive now? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:06 AM
Raven Shield was released March 16, 2003.

The final patch (1.06) was released just short of a year later. So within 12 months there were 6 patches. I recall in the beginning, from patch 1.00 to patch 1.04 all happened within a few short months of each other. While UBI upheld their refusal to release information and dates prior to releasing patches, they still happened and frequently enough to keep players coming back for more.

Edit:

Excuse me.... there were 15 patches (not including the PB installer) in 12 months.

http://www.ubi.com/US/Downloads/Info.aspx?dlId=56

All released within weeks of each other. Not months. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:09 AM
Two different things. Games that work like they are supposed to. And support for the game.

Which are we talking about?

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
Raven Shield was released March 16, 2006.

The final patch (1.06) was released just short of a year later. So within 12 months there were 6 patches. I recall in the beginning, from patch 1.00 to patch 1.04 all happened within a few short months of each other. While UBI upheld their refusal to release information and dates prior to releasing patches, they still happened and frequently enough to keep players coming back for more.

Edit:

Excuse me.... there were 15 patches (not including the PB installer) in 12 months.

http://www.ubi.com/US/Downloads/Info.aspx?dlId=56

All released within weeks of each other. Not months. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You may want to recheck that release date. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Yes i remember the firs few happening rather quickly. But it still wasnt fixed. Actually its still has alot of bugs..lol but it does work well enough.

12 months to get it fixed up good. Has vegas been out that long? Again whether they intend on fixing it i dont know.

I know one thing. No patch is going to transform it into anything close to rvs.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:12 AM
For the most part Raven Shield worked. Most patches not only eliminated bugs but exploits that cheaters would use.

Did you even play Raven Shield?

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:13 AM
I checked my facts before posting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_Rainbow_Six_3:_Raven_Shield

You should do the same.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
I checked my facts before posting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_Rainbow_Six_3:_Raven_Shield

You should do the same.

Umm. i dont need to check anything. lmao

I bought the game in march of 2003. Have i slipped through some kind of time warp here.

Maybe too many illegal drugs... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Ahh i see you edited your initial post.
your initial post is in my quote earlier.
It says 2006.


So now i can comfortably return to my illegal drug use. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:18 AM
Having played since the demo was released I made sure I got my full version as soon as it was released as well.

It worked. It had bugs and plenty of things for cheaters to exploit but it didn't crash 10x in one gaming session. And it got support. Regular support from day one that continued up to a year later.

Your argument is weak.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:19 AM
What argument?

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:21 AM
Nothing you've said is accurate nor does it make any sense.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
Nothing you've said is accurate nor does it make any sense.

Wth..maybe you need to lay off the illegal drugs.

Please quote one thing ive said that can be construed as "not accurate" rather than just my opinion.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by nebula25x:
Please quote one thing ive said that can be construed as "not accurate" rather than just my opinion.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed.
Here are 6:

1) To imply that UBI KNEW that Rvs was going to last over 4 years i think is a bit naive. To imply that UBI KNEW that Lockdown and Vegas would not last more than a few months is also naive.

2) So are you saying that if Vegas worked flawlessly on your pc with no crashes, no bugs, no glitches whatsoever AND the multiplayer was fully functional that this game would STILL only last a few months?

3) Are you indirectly saying UBI intentionally bugged the game to drive fans away?

4) Raven Shield was patched from 1.0 to 1.6.
And its impossible for those patches to be "weeks apart" over a 10 month period.

5) The patches for vegas have been similarly spaced, the problem is they just arent fixing the major issues.

6) Whether they planned on supporting it or not is another issue.



Did I wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Maybe. But even on a good day I don't like it when someone talks like they know what they're saying and they really don't.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
For the most part Raven Shield worked. Most patches not only eliminated bugs but exploits that cheaters would use.

Did you even play Raven Shield?

Did you even read my post?

Of course i playe it. Laddered in it, lived it for the first three years it was out. You need to pay more attention to what is actually written and not jump to conclusions.

Rvs was and still is my favorite game. No where did i imply anything to the contrary.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:33 AM
The inaccuracy of your comments lead me to believe otherwise.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
The inaccuracy of your comments lead me to believe otherwise.

Believe what you want. As for the list you posted..im still waiting for a quote of something "not accurate or rather just my opinion".

Assuming you dont go back and edit, everything you posted that i said is either a question, which by definition cannot be "not accurate" or a fact, or my opinon. If you dont like my opinion i dont care, its my opinion.

But dont say im saying things that are not accurate. Go get a massage or something, i dont think this is helping you much.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:47 AM
Just one quote?

"The patches for vegas have been similarly spaced, the problem is they just arent fixing the major issues."

Like I said, 15 patches over the course of a year. You can't compare the quality of Raven Shield and the support it got to what we've seen with Vegas.

And if you think that either of these instances, with Raven Shield receiving support and Vegas getting almost no support at all, were not planned....

Companies plan their budgets long before taking on a project. Everything is planned. From concept to story to how much support and support resources are devoted to that project after release.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Syrfer:
Just one quote?

"The patches for vegas have been similarly spaced, the problem is they just arent fixing the major issues."

Like I said, 15 patches over the course of a year. You can't compare the quality of Raven Shield and the support it got to what we've seen with Vegas.

And if you think that either of these instances, with Raven Shield receiving support and Vegas getting almost no support at all, were not planned....

Companies plan their budgets long before taking on a project. Everything is planned. From concept to story to how much support and support resources are devoted to that project after release.

That quote is accurate. The game is not fixed. Or is it?

Again i said before i dont know whether they "planned" on fixing it or not.

Your looking for an argument that isnt here.

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 10:57 AM
The patches for Vegas are not following the same release pattern or effort that Raven Shield saw.

My experience playing Raven Shield and getting support (via patches) is not matched by my experience with Vegas.

Not by a longshot.

nebula25x
06-19-2007, 11:04 AM
Im not comparing the two. Rvs worked for me out of the box. The subsequent patches fixed some minor things, major for others, but i played with no problems.

The patches for vegas have been minor fixes for most but major fixes for few. Err that was confusing...

The problem is that patch you want and i want is not coming. The patch that makes this game Rvs 2. We can agree on that yes?

Syrfer
06-19-2007, 11:07 AM
Agreed.

If this patch fixes anything worthwhile community involvement won't be anything like it was with Raven Shield.

And if the patch fixes nothing worthwhile I doubt we'll see another patch after it.

Companies like UBI don't make millions flying by the seat of their pants. We lost out long before we walked into the store.

Muhad
06-19-2007, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by mofomouse:
Dear Ubi and Red storm padawans.

Id like to point out some things that might help you make more cash in the future.

My first advice would be to listen to 100000 players around here(or should i say 5000? since rest left).

Then Id like you to find the ppl you fired from redstorm - yeah I mean the ones that alpha tested Raven Shield and kindly ask them to come back to work for you for 10x the salary.

After that Id like you to throw urselfs into a wall and think ... "HEY THEY STILL PLAY RVS AND NOBODY PLAYS LOCKDOWN OR VEGAS WHAT THE HELL"

After that Id like you to fire every person involved in marketing - appearantly they bought their education or sth because they ruined RainbowSix series with lame quality gameplay and super new game engine just for some 10 idiots around the world that would really play it on their Xbox.

When you are done with your HR stuff Id like you too take a closer look into the market and see that gameplay is everything and while you are doing this you may notice that some support for games is more then you even put into the game while its developed.

At this point Id like you to wonder how much cash and work you dumped into trash just because you though "Lets give them good looking **** and it will sell".

If you still fail to see my point Id like you to release an SDK for Raven Shield and go kindly...

R6 gamer.

What he say!

Lasher-M-
06-20-2007, 03:05 AM
All this arguing over what was patched, when it was patch and how many patches there was in that time frame...

Bottom line is that when Raven Shield was released even before the patches .. it was atleast playable. R6V is not.

scavenger67
06-20-2007, 10:56 AM
well for one thing, the patches for Rvs did fix stuff, unlike Vegas which none of the patches done squat!!

i to went from the demo to the full version and it played great, of course the door bug and stuff and what the cheater used to gain in advy mp , but it worked and on a pc as well.

since it was built on a pc for pc and not ported from xbox or what ever it was back then. since i have only 2 consoles which were Nintendo and super Nintendo.

but i have been a pc gamer ever since 2003 . but atleast back then they knew how to fix it and cared about it, but now they could give a rats a$$ about it or us, only thing they ever wanted from us is $$