The engine used for the game "Cryengine 1.3" ?

[superior_no.1]

It looks like they have used this engine since Ubisoft not very long ago got the rights to use the engine on new games away from the Farcry series.

It states in the Haze game info that it is made from from the ground up, so we should see a nice cryengine 1.3 game with potential on a console.

I found the charecter models ubisoft montreal made for the FCI series very poor, compared to what cytek done with the origial Far Cry two years earlier. So far the models in this game look really good alot like the old Far Cry characters.

I could be really wrong and if I am please correct me.

[deded999]

Well it does say: 'Designed from the ground up to take advantage of next generation hardware', so that would indicate a new engine (and as far as I know FRD always make their own engines), but the similarity (in parts, although I haven't seen any beaches yet!) to Far Cry is interesting, and a first FRD game on PC is another possible link.

I'm not sure the character models look at all like FC - I would imagine even if they used that engine the character models (in fact a lot of the models) would be completely different anyway, so I don't think that's significant.

Personally I think FRD have an entirely new engine. They need to learn NG development anyway and I doubt you can do that fully with a licensed engine. Whatever, it's the game that counts. Interesting point though superior.

[deded999]

Although I stand by my comments above, if you check this new shot of the game engine:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4407/haze65fv.jpg
...it does look like the Far Cry engine. This may just be a coincidence - they are both engines drawing jungles afer all, how different will they really be? Interesting though, especially as we know that Ubisoft bought the rights to the FC engine.

Having said that though, I played around with the Cry editor for many hours and I don't recognise any of the models from that editor here, so it looks like it may be just a similar-looking engine but made by FRD.

[frd_neko]

HAZE is running on Free Radical's in-house developed next-gen engine; there is no sharing of technology. The similarity between HAZE and Far Cry begins and ends with the fact that they both utilise jungle environments, but I think you'll find that if you compare the two side-by-side, HAZE is a leap beyond the Far Cry engine.

We'll be showing more of the cool features of the engine in coming months, for now suffice to say all those shots are entirely ingame and running really very nicely...

Neko.

[deded999]

Ah! Vindication.

The engine looks great mate, can't wait to see it in motion /hint hint/

[fallenshad0w]

hehe brilliant, cant wait to see more of what this new engine can do quoting from deded, /hint hint/, woudlnt mind seeing how the engine works and the difference between the far cry one is either

[deded999]

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7444/fc16gf.jpg
Far Cry shot.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1281/haze10yh.jpg
HAZE shot.

Funny how your mind plays tricks on you isn't it? Note still shots don't show that FC foliage is two-dimensional while Haze looks like it's 3D and showing far more detail. The HDR lighting also makes a big difference, which will show up even more in motion as the lighting should be more dynamic and responsive to the environment.

[frd_neko]

Originally posted by deded999:
Funny how your mind plays tricks on you isn't it? Note still shots don't show that FC foliage is two-dimensional while Haze looks like it's 3D and showing far more detail. The HDR lighting also makes a big difference, which will show up even more in motion as the lighting should be more dynamic and responsive to the environment.

Yes, it's really in the quality of the lighting that the two engines differentiate themselves. The most obvious example of this is the bloom around the edges of the plants towards the upper edge of the HAZE screenshot you've got there.

However, also notice the way that towards the bottom left and right edges of the HAZE screen, the jungle gets a lot darker and denser. Compare this with the very flat, even lighting in the Far Cry image; this is really where our engine shines, as we are able to create dark, sweaty, claustrophobic-feeling jungle sections that give way to blindingly sunny environments, something that you wouldn't see in Far Cry (where, as I've said, the lighting always feels unrealistically flat).

Despite fleeting appearances, the two engines are very different; as we reveal more of the environments we have in HAZE, this should become even more apparent.

Neko.

[deded999]

Looks great. I bet there's going to be some really tense moments in the darker parts of that jungle. 'Never get out of the boat - absolutely ******* right.' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Honestly I'm surprised by the skill FRD have obviously put into the engine - it looks on a par or better than the best engines around at the moment, and the early-demo previews seem to agree with this assessment. I was kind of expecting a fast and stylish but not particularly cutting-edge (sorry!) engine TBH. You guys have really surprised me. I wonder how you've found it working on the NG machines - it's obvious you've got your heads around them in double-quick time at any rate. I guess these are questions you can't answer now, but any info or impressions you can pass on to us would be greatly appreciated...

[frd_neko]

Originally posted by deded999:
Honestly I'm surprised by the skill FRD have obviously put into the engine - it looks on a par or better than the best engines around at the moment, and the early-demo previews seem to agree with this assessment. I was kind of expecting a fast and stylish but not particularly cutting-edge (sorry!) engine TBH. You guys have really surprised me. I wonder how you've found it working on the NG machines - it's obvious you've got your heads around them in double-quick time at any rate. I guess these are questions you can't answer now, but any info or impressions you can pass on to us would be greatly appreciated...

To be honest I think the TimeSplitters/Second Sight engine was a lot more capable than most people gave it credit for. I think some of the stuff in Second Sight and TimeSplitters: Future Perfect in particular was up there with the best of 'em on the PS2.

I think the reason you didn't see much acclaim for our old engine was partly because we didn't shout too hard about the technical side of things, instead preferring to let the graphics speak for themselves, and partly because of the slightly cartoony, exaggerated art style utilised by our previous games. It's an artistic style we still love, but I think it did tend to blind people to just how much the engine was doing.

That said, we've built an extremely talented engine team over the last few years, and together with some extremely focused artistic direction, I really do think the graphics in HAZE are our best work so far, not just from a technical point of view but also from an artistic one. And that's the key, really; all the fancy tech features in the world are worth nothing if there isn't a team of artists capable of utilising them...

Neko.

[deded999]

Originally posted by frd_neko:
I think the reason you didn't see much acclaim for our old engine was partly because we didn't shout too hard about the technical side of things, instead preferring to let the graphics speak for themselves, and partly because of the slightly cartoony, exaggerated art style utilised by our previous games. It's an artistic style we still love, but I think it did tend to blind people to just how much the engine was doing.

Yeah - I didn't mean to say the engine wasn't good, just that it concentrated on speed and style in order to maximise playability and design. You created the TS engine to cope with four player split-screen MP, which I imagine cuts down on extra bells and whistles, but made MP far more than just a crippled add-on like most developers would have done. It was integral to the game.

A lot of the more popular games' graphical styles leave me cold; the ones that innovate, even if they aren't obviously pushing the envelope make a huge impression, (GTA: SA might be one, Shadow of the Colossus another).


I really do think the graphics in HAZE are our best work so far, not just from a technical point of view but also from an artistic one. And that's the key, really; all the fancy tech features in the world are worth nothing if there isn't a team of artists capable of utilising them...

Absolutely. That's one of the reasons TS was so great for me - the game's artistic style (Generic?? - do these people have eyes?) is so different than anything else out there, but it's also beautiful and functional in it's own right. And I'm not just praising the particular TS/SS style either - the input of artists is key to a great game, but it isn't just about having a texture that's indistinguishable from the real thing. As we get nearer to photo-realism I think a graphical style/artistic ability will become more and more important, (compare a photo-comic to a Frank Miller comic - which is more interesting?). As artists become less hindered and more enabled by hardware their skills should become more important. FRD look to be at the forefront of this, along with several other notable developers, (Kojima Productions for one).

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your character designs and just the game in general.

[fallenshad0w]

Originally posted by deded999:
the input of artists is key to a great game
Good graphics aren't the key to a great game, they certainly help - yes, but whats a game when the gameplay is terrible. For me its the gameplay that makes the game. For instance if any of you have played C&C Renegade, then you'll know that the graphics, although very good for when the game was relesed are pretty bad now, yet i still sometimes play it becasue it has good gameplay.

Fortunatly for us, HAZE is being designed by FRD, so it will have both great graphics, gameplay etc, but i still dont thnk people should judge a game on one aspect alone.

[deded999]

Originally posted by fallenshad0w:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deded999:
the input of artists is key to a great game
Good graphics aren't the key to a great game, they certainly help - yes, but whats a game when the gameplay is terrible. For me its the gameplay that makes the game. For instance if any of you have played C&C Renegade, then you'll know that the graphics, although very good for when the game was relesed are pretty bad now, yet i still sometimes play it becasue it has good gameplay.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, well put. I suppose I didn't really phrase myself very well, but I would argue that a great game does need good artistic input if it is going to be great. I agree gameplay is more important than graphics anyday, but when I say good art I mean just that, not cutting-edge technical achievement or superb modelling.

Advance Wars is a good example: it doesn't have amazing graphics, but they are neat and functional with plenty of character. Disgaea is waaaay behind the times graphically, with 2D sprites on simple isometric-based maps and 2D cut-scenes, but the characterisation and personality in the game is second to none. Neither of these game engines would ever be referred to as amazing.

See what I'm getting at? You're right of course, but the subject of graphics/art/style/character is, I think, a little more important than it seems, even though most general talk on the subject refers to 'amazing' graphical effects and technical wizardry which don't necessarily add much to the game.

As Neko was saying, FRD didn't get too much credit for their graphics engine, but add in the character models, animation and overall design ethic and 'graphics' (or really art design, which is what I was trying to get at) actually add an awful lot to the game, despite the engine not being seen as 'cutting-edge'. Would TS have been a bad game without this art design? No, not at all, but it would have been a lesser game, with a lot less charm and wit, and I'm not sure I'd have been quite so into it without this aspect present.

[fallenshad0w]

Agreed. Although saying that, i actually prefered TS2's graphics becasue it was more "cartoony" so to speak and it was those graphics that made the game when ts3 came out i was slightly disappointed when i saw the graphics, which although were much better, didnt have the same feel to them and those in TS1 and 2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

[deded999]

I'd agree with that, although I'm not quite sure I could put my finger on why...? It's a while since I played TS2, so it's hard to recall, although I played the first level a few weeks ago and the Siberia level is a classic in every way. I'm not sure all the Story levels have quite that appeal, but it was a classic game all round. I'm not criticising TSFP, it just didn't quite hit the high-points of TS2 for me. Still a great game though - I only moan because it's just that inch or two short of perfect. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

EDIT: Is it just me, or in the Haze shot above, right at the guy's left foot, is that standing water on the floor? Fully reflective puddles? Now that's one of those tiny insignificant graphical effects we've been saying are not important for games, but it's pretty nice to be able to throw tiny details in like that. Am I having a hallucination or does anyone else see that?

The only thing I haven't noticed so far is self-shadowing on the characters, but this may be my eyesight or the level of development...

Superior_no.1 - if you see this, maybe you should change the title of your thread as we know it isn't the Cryengine being used now...

[Kade_Yuy]

hmmm without good graphics games donty sell as much. Its pretty cool to have a FRD come on the boards and post thats cool. BTW Ed i do see that water pretty cool

[frd_neko]

Gameplay is obviously the most essential part of the mix, but graphics are very nearly as necessary, because of the fact that they heighten the player's immersion in the game.

Also, graphics are one of the few things that we've actually revealed of HAZE so far, that's probably why you're seeing them receieve so much discussion!

So don't worry, the gameplay is far from being ignored...

Neko.

[deded999]

I don't think anyone's worried about the gameplay mate. (Well, I've heard a few concerns about squad-play, but the luddites will get their collective heads around it I'm sure! As long as the AI works well and they can be relied upon to do their jobs adequately I don't see a problem, in fact it could be a great addition. Some seem to forget the AI assistance in some TSFP story-levels).

Just looking back at the two indoor shots:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/446/haze43ak.jpg
Hall of fire
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9748/haze57uk.jpg
Stairway

I notice the lighting on the stairway is excellent, both sunlight on the lower area and the reflections on the stairs themselves - unlike a lot of early NG games they don't look plastic but like real (and wet and dirty) metal. It's hard to tell properly in the shot, but it does look like there's some self-shadowing on the guy on the stairs.

The other shot of the hallway is also very well lit, the metal pipes look perfect, the molten metal very effective - the steam rising and the small shafts of light from the upper walkway add a lot to the scene. Would make a good MP map this one!

I've got to wonder about the later three shots New Pics (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7551024144/m/1891051644) compared to these: they look a little rougher and less developed than these shots, which is mostly the reason I wondered a little about the engine being FC's, (check the first and second Haze shots on this page to see what I mean). It may be that it's just the way they were taken or set up, after all the explosions are terrific, (great work FRD, can't wait to see those beauties in motion) but some of the backgrounds look a little less strong than they do in the initial three shots released. Dare I question if this is a format issue? /Flame shield on/ It seems unlikely.

I would think it's probably more to do with the development stage than anything else though.

EDIT: Sorry to sit here picking your shots apart Neko, but that's only because I'm so hungry and have so little to feed upon! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[frd_neko]

Originally posted by deded999:

I've got to wonder about the later three shots New Pics (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7551024144/m/1891051644) compared to these: they look a little rougher and less developed than these shots, which is mostly the reason I wondered a little about the engine being FC's, (check the first and second Haze shots on this page to see what I mean). It may be that it's just the way they were taken or set up, after all the explosions are terrific, (great work FRD, can't wait to see those beauties in motion) but some of the backgrounds look a little less strong than they do in the initial three shots released. Dare I question if this is a format issue? /Flame shield on/ It seems unlikely.

Not quite sure what you mean re the 'rougher' shots. Are you saying the outside shots look rougher than those indoor ones you've posted above? Or that the newer jungle shots look less good than the earlier ones? Regardless, I think what you're probably seeing is simply the difference in resolution between the different screen captures. Not all of them were taken at game resolution, y'see - I suspect those ones that you're perceiving as being a bit 'rougher' are those that weren't captured at native resolution (i.e. game resolution). Just like scaling an image in a paint program, anything that isn't displayed at 'true' res tends to suffer some unpleasant scaling artefacts.

Mind you, the different shots were taken at different stages of development so it may just be that the later shots were actually taken before the earlier ones (sounds a bit of a backwards way to do things but the way we work is just to have banks of screenshots being generated all the time; when we come to release new shots we select them from here, and occasionally that can result in old shots being released after newer ones).

I can't talk too much about the different versions but all the shots were taken from the same format as one another anyway.

Neko.

[deded999]

Originally posted by frd_neko:
Or that the newer jungle shots look less good than the earlier ones?


That's what I meant, (the distant one only) although it wasn't a big deal or anything - there's no point reading too much into any one screenshot anyway, it was just that the shot of the distant group looked less-defined than the shot of the 'villager' guy in the clearing. It's probably what you were saying about different resolutions.

The other two shots of the explosion/grunt firing are much clearer, (great texturing on the environment). They really show the best explosions I've seen in a while (with drifting smoke on the left-hand side I think), if the shots are representative of the effect in motion. It's often under-estimated how much things like impressive, powerful explosions/shots/animations can improve a game.

[frd_neko]

Originally posted by deded999:
It's often under-estimated how much things like impressive, powerful explosions/shots/animations can improve a game.

Too true, too true...

Neko.

[deded999]

In action, the game looks stunning. The sun’s rays gleam through the tropical palms. Trees splinter as they’re peppered with gunfire. Troops move between cover as if they’re genuinely concerned about their own asses and butterflies flutter through the warzones. It’s almost too good to be true.

Metroradio (see E3 Preview Sticky)

Trees splnter?! I was hoping this kind of thing would appear in Haze - I can't wait to see those explosions now!