Anti-Aliasing broken in Silent Hunter 4!?!

[SS.DJSatane]

It seems Silent Hunter 4 doesnt support anti aliasing.

Source: http://pc.ign.com/articles/770/770548p1.html

Quote:

One trade-off, however, appears to be a lack of anti-aliasing. Note to devs - if you've somehow broken AA due to one of your sexy graphical techniques, prepare to feel your pride at releasing an otherwise awesome sim be submerged. You will not be forgiven. Considering the last game had major issues with resolutions above 1024 x 768, we're hoping that the devs haven't made another blunder in this department.

Can anyone from developers clarify this? This is big.

[SS.DJSatane]

Would be nice to get some information on this. If AA is not supported both in game and doesnt work even through forcing it through GPU drivers then this needs to be disclosed. I hope AA works though and it would be nice if someone can put us at ease.

[3.JG51_Molders]

I thought it was suppose to be based off the SH3 graphic engine ? When I look at the screenshots for SH4, I see AA so if no AA is supported then their screenshots are heavily photoshoped.

[SS.DJSatane]

Well so far this IGN preview is only one to mention and test this. That's all we got to go on so far. Some answers would be nice...although it seems since people who ordered game from UBI already had it ship today. We will find out for sure within few days from them.

[SS.DJSatane]

So far no answers, I guess we will have to wait on reviews assuming any show up before game ships...

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Whats Anti-Aliasing? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Chief_WH]

I think Anti Aliasing is a graphic effect which prevents straight lines having a jagged/step-like appearance.

I may be wrong.

[Fish40]

Posted Sun March 11 2007 14:44 Hide Post
I think Anti Aliasing is a graphic effect which prevents straight lines having a jagged/step-like appearance.
You are correct. Simply put, AA eliminates (greatly reduces with some performance hit) the jagged appearences of the edges of objects. If this is true about SH4, this is truley a bummer! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[Texan5224]

It would be a real suprise if it's not included.


Mr Smith

[snowden909]

In SHIII You could hit ctrl-pageup and it would do AA, many people don't know this but it is a feature that is core to the engine... But like SH3, SH4 might not openly support it... or they may have had to adjust the requirments on the box... But if not its a really minor thing since all cards can be forced to do AA and thats really no diffrent than being supported in the game... just my 2 cents...

[prj57]

Snowden909, didnt the ctrl+pg up command fully extend the Attack Periscope in SH3? I am curious as to I use it alot and because my sys is not really powerfull (512 RAM + Mobility Radeon 9600 64MB) I play with a lot of the Eye Candy lowered to a minimum. I really can't afford high quality graphics or effects.

[SS.DJSatane]

Originally posted by snowden909:
In SHIII You could hit ctrl-pageup and it would do AA, many people don't know this but it is a feature that is core to the engine... But like SH3, SH4 might not openly support it... or they may have had to adjust the requirments on the box... But if not its a really minor thing since all cards can be forced to do AA and thats really no diffrent than being supported in the game... just my 2 cents...

Problem is, according to IGN preview on that site I posted in this thread earlier they couldnt even force aa with card drivers... it wouldnt work. Very few games have this problem and I hope thats not the case with SH4. Some official answers would be nice.

[snowden909]

shift page up (im not home to check)... But if IGN is right, that you can't even force it... that would be really odd. And disapointing.
Sorry for the keyboard command mix up.

[slaken]

As far as I know you can basically force FSAA onto any game, current or ten year old.

My guess is that the copy of SHIV that IGN got has blocked FSAA to be used simply to maximize FPS and avoid bugs.

I might be speaking out of turn but you shouldn't worry about SHIV not sporting FSAA.

[3.JG51_Molders]

I just had a thought about this. What about enabling AA through the Nvidia or ATI control panel ? Thats how I got AA in SH3, even though there is no option in the game for it.

[slaken]

Molders:

That's what most people are a bit upset about. According to IGN you can't even do that (force FSAA via drivers).

[gymrat57]

I smell a patch!

[tuddley3]

Originally posted by slaken:
Molders:

That's what most people are a bit upset about. According to IGN you can't even do that (force FSAA via drivers).

Like you said 2 posts up, IGN has a Demo/Beta copy, and probably is not in it's production quality condition, so some things such as graphic tweaking is not permitted, but I am sure the final cut version will be compatible with ATI Control Panel, or even ATI Omega drivers. I am sure our good friend BR will be one of the first to check this out.

[Nightmare5o3]

Some of UBI's recent releases (GRAW for example) do not allow AA, even if "forced" via drivers. Something to do with HDR and post-processed graphics (which SH4 does have). So we might not be getting AA, we'll just have to wait and see.

Another possibility is it might require the latest graphics card to run them both. Take Oblivion for example; you want to run HDR and AA at the same time, you need either Ati's X1900 or better card or one of Nvidia's 8800 series.

[SS.DJSatane]

Originally posted by slaken:
As far as I know you can basically force FSAA onto any game, current or ten year old.

My guess is that the copy of SHIV that IGN got has blocked FSAA to be used simply to maximize FPS and avoid bugs.

I might be speaking out of turn but you shouldn't worry about SHIV not sporting FSAA.

Incorrect, for example with game like Oblivion you will not be able to force AA with many video cards. Now I hope what Nightmare5o3 says its true and the higher end cards will allow running AA on SH4.

[MooseNoodles]

Ill set your minds to rest...

There is "NO" FSAA in the game, not in the options nowhere.. there is also "NO" post effect using the sh3 method of shift pageup etc whatever it was.. which did alleviate the signs of jaggies by false impressions. But it did suffice..

I have no idea about forcing it with drivers, all I know is my euro friend has his set to 8XS on dual gpu card and it does not force it that way for sure... So we are high and dry on that score until we can get maybe some more insight from developers on it..

But judging by what ive seen from my mates screenies its not a biggie as the general feel and look of the game will make one overlook this little problem/fact/issue for some..

all the best,

Moose..

[Delric]

Well to be entirely honest, even though the game looks splendid, this game not having AA is a big downer for me..

Nothing looks sharp, and when you see trailers for the game and ingame-movies from the developers they say "oh look how detailed it all is", and that's true, but it's hard to see it because it's so darned blurry.

Besides, why does the game looks like it has AA in all of the screenshots?

There must be some way to get AA?

[MooseNoodles]

The reason for the most part why gaming pre-sale screenshots of the kind look that way is usually that they have been altered using a art package etc, e.g photoshop or something..

Marketing is about pushing all the buttons in the right places to maximise sales. Its been going on for years fixed up screenshots to give it the look of like its the next best thing since sliced bread...

Simply put people know these days that the customer is more likely to say *F* off if they dont like the look of something, the world is very "visual" based now even when choosing a new girlfriend :P etc etc..

sad but true and otherwise a bit crafty if you ask me.. Id of settled though for the simple HDR blur effect, that at least took your eye of any jaggies....

cheers,

Moose..

[Delric]

Originally posted by MooseNoodles:
The reason for the most part why gaming pre-sale screenshots of the kind look that way is usually that they have been altered using a art package etc, e.g photoshop or something..

Marketing is about pushing all the buttons in the right places to maximise sales. Its been going on for years fixed up screenshots to give it the look of like its the next best thing since sliced bread...

Simply put people know these days that the customer is more likely to say *F* off if they dont like the look of something, the world is very "visual" based now even when choosing a new girlfriend :P etc etc..

sad but true and otherwise a bit crafty if you ask me.. Id of settled though for the simple HDR blur effect, that at least took your eye of any jaggies....

cheers,

Moose..

Hmm, yeah I know what you mean. Maybe you're right and I should forget about it. In the end, gameplay is the thing that's most important. And even without AA it still looks very good.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and replying to my post!

[MooseNoodles]

Not a problem Delric, "thankyou" for being so well spoken and putting text across clearly, unlike a few I have had to read latley..

The gameplay as you say "IS" the key to anygame for the real fan of any genre. Im sure you wont be dissapointed with Sh4, I have had good feedback from my scandinavian friend who has said it is a deffinate purchasable sim.

all the best,

Moose..

[CrazyBoris_1]

This is true.
Apparently their is no way to do AA and also no way to enable or force vsynch in the game. Do we really don't need 150 fps in the game w/ the frame tearing (8800).

This is really strange and disturbing.
Disabling drivers from providing AA is a real shame and it is definitely noticeable, especially when looking at ships at distances and all ropes look very blocky.

Too bad really.

[TheRealPotoroo]

Originally posted by MooseNoodles:
I have no idea about forcing it with drivers, all I know is my euro friend has his set to 8XS on dual gpu card and it does not force it that way for sure...
I can confirm I am unable to force FSAA on SH4 using an Nvidia application profile as I was able with SH3. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[TresAmigos]

It astounds me to end that a developer can spend literally years of their lives putting a sexy graphical coat of paint on a product, only to (willfully?) take a jackhammer and scratch-up the final coat with a blunder like locking the 3D resolution to 1024x768 AND disabling AA on top of that.

Am I the only one who seriously wants to scream, "WTF was going through your heads when you called for release status 'gold'?!".

[Captain America]

Just another confirmation for you guys...FSAA does NOT work...even if forced. I'm sorry to say that the game looks horrible @ 1680x1050 on my 8800 GTX. Sure the graphics are better than SH3, but the jaggies and overall blurryness really spoil it.

[Simfight1]

Im in the same boat.....sorry for the pun. It just looks terrible. No AA forced 1024. Before you all jump and and point out the res can be changed. It only changes the UI. That way they can say multiple resolutions and not get sued. I really need to read the forms before I buy. Oh Stalker has the same issues. Yup i got suckerd twice this week http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[billko]

I think it has to do with the glare setting. it must use HDR to do it, and with Nvidia cards you can't have both at the same time, just like in Oblivion. Radeon users would probably need a patch to get them to both work at the same time. It's a hardware limitation in this case.

[Luke5skywalker4]

Forced Hardware AA/AF does not work for me either. I have an 8800GTX. This really makes no sense to me. I'll see if the glare has anything to do with it.

[RocketDog]

Luke, FSAA has been purposely disabled by the game's coding so that it can use a particular version of HDR. Crazy, but there you go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. There are some long discussions about this at subsim.com (generally a much more useful site than this one). The devs have stated that they hope to introduce FSAA and resolutions above 1024 x 768 in patch 1.2. See the sticky in the General Discussion forum here. Given that SH3 was well supported by patches I don't see any reason to think this won't happen. Just wait a few weeks.

Cheers,

RD.

[TheRealPotoroo]

Originally posted by RocketDog:
Luke, FSAA has been purposely disabled by the game's coding so that it can use a particular version of HDR.
The same dev who said they hope to address FSAA in the 1.2 patch also said SH4 is SM2.0 and therefore does not use HDR.

@Bilko: 8 series Geforce and Radeon X1800 and X1900 series cards can handle FSAA and HDR simultaneously. That functionality is not universal for either Nvidia or ATI.

[RocketDog]

Originally posted by TheRealPotoroo:
The same dev who said they hope to address FSAA in the 1.2 patch also said SH4 is SM2.0 and therefore does not use HDR.

Interesting and I stand corrcted - so why exatly have they disabled FSAA?

RD.

[adamfruitcake]

I pressed shift+pageup for the first time on SH3 today, now i see what all the fuss is about! It looks a gabillion times better (that is the force AA button right?) If so, please put it in the next patch Ubi!

Ad

[TheRealPotoroo]

Originally posted by RocketDog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheRealPotoroo:
The same dev who said they hope to address FSAA in the 1.2 patch also said SH4 is SM2.0 and therefore does not use HDR.
Interesting and I stand corrcted - so why exatly have they disabled FSAA? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The more I think about it the harder I find it to reconcile what he said with what I'm seeing. It's common for games to support more than one shader model and I simply can't understand how they've managed to achieve certain visual effects without SM3.0. For example, one of the things Pixel Shader 3.0 does a lot better than 2.0 is water transparency.

That said, taking what he said on face value I suspect the problem with FSAA lies in the way they've implemented the 3D engine upscaling.

[mdcbornslippy]

actually you CAN force vsync in the game by editing the config file. But to all the others, I have tried forcing aa with the sli mode to not avail...bummer.

[SonicBlue111]

First Stalker (bought this week) and now this. A shame. No way of doing HDR-Rendering or shading should EVER break Multisampling FSAA compatibility. I'm using FSAA (supersampling or multisampling) since the Voodoo5, and it was a long, hard road until it got usable in state-of-the-art engines.

And now more and more game developers break it! I really wonder, what kind of new HDRR or shaders we need, that are worth breaking FSAA. As far as i can see in modern games, it is NOT worth it, despite some good looks! Jaggies spoil everything, make whole scenes just unnatural. (@shaders: Ghost Recon and Stalker have been reported to use so-called "deferred shaders", that fundamentally broke Multisampling compatibility even on most modern ATi and NV cards).

I mean, look at FarCry (1.33) or the HL2 engine. Or Oblivion. Very beautiful HDR-Rendering can work WITH AA.. (Sometimes with a little help by nHancer on G80 cards, ok). So really, why break it? This should not be necessary.

I'm greatly disappointed by this, cause i just don't want to miss the quality of AA, expecially now on my 8800, where AA+TAA really shines.

Please, please FIX THIS. Thanks.

[Tom1950_241]

Originally posted by prj57:
Snowden909, didnt the ctrl+pg up command fully extend the Attack Periscope in SH3? I am curious as to I use it alot and because my sys is not really powerfull (512 RAM + Mobility Radeon 9600 64MB) I play with a lot of the Eye Candy lowered to a minimum. I really can't afford high quality graphics or effects.

Yeah, I have a pretty good PC with up-to-date hardware, but performance hits all the time. I can't move into a harbor afraid of too much lagg can someone help me , maybe tweaking ???

[Annoyment]

If you have an Nvidia card you can create a profile for the game and force antialiasing using Nhancer. It works.

http://www.nhancer.com/