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Luderbamsen
06-26-2006, 09:59 AM
Okay, the time has come to stop the internal squabbling between whiners and fanbois. It's not getting any of us anywhere and it's quite franky getting boring.

Now it's time to offer some constructive feedback, advice and suggestions. Some may be for patches, others may be for an expansion pack or even GR4 (I personally think the GR brand should not appear on PC again, but that's another story).

Probably Ubi/GRIN has figured out by now that most players weren't satisfied with GRAW as released, and community efforts should now focus on fixing GRAW.

Note: I have deliberately started from GRAW's pre-patched status, and some features may very well be among those included in the patches.

Gameplay:
While jumping most certainly shouldn't be included, there needs to be an option to move over obstacles, at least up to waist height. Ladders e.c.t. need also to be climbable. Ideally, there should be the ability to climb over taller obstacles by soldiers hoisting each other up, opening up gameplay.

Single Player:
Being tied to a single character is a mistake. The player should be able to switch rapidly between characters, just as it was possible to switch between team leaders in the original Rainbow Six.

More mission types, including recon, defend, firefight e.c.t. These should (obviously) also be availible for COOP.

There should be an unlimited number of saves when and where the player wants it.

Interface:
Try to make more (realistic) use of the Advanced Warfighter technology. Unless you can come up with some rock-solid evidence, I'm not going to belive that the system can track friends and foes in 3D and realtime, in relation to helmet movements (in other words, get rid of the diamonds, or at least make removing them an option).

Make CROSSCOM/NARCOM optional. It's not very realistic. (I'd rather have it removed entirely but others might disagree so at least offer the option of disabling it). The system can be used more realistically to transmit/recive images (primarily stills) during recon missions or, say, hunts for war criminals.

Offer more direct control of the drone, notably camera movement, (in part to offset the removal of diamonds). Also look into adding other UAV's wich might be armed or used to guide/designate weapons from artillery or airstrikes.

Unmanned Ground Vechiles (UGV's) are in use already today. They range from miniature scout vechiles to lightly armed (machineguns and grenade launchers) "mini-tanks". Intended to be fielded roughly simultaneously with Advanced Warfighter are larger more sophisticated robot vechiles, able to carry supplies, ammo and small UAV's/UGV's as well as armed versions (up to and including anti tank missiles).

Exploit the opportunity for a proper map display marked with known enemy positions and other pre-mission intelligence (and you can add realtime spotted enemies to replace the HUD diamonds). Expand on the ability of both squad leader and teammembers (SP/COOP/MP) to communicate digitally via this map (i.e. more elaborate command functions, waypoints, markers e.c.t.).

The interface with tanks, APC's and other support assets need to be more elaborate.

Weapons & Equipment:
The modular approach is exellent, build on that. Look into the option of switching accessories during gameplay. Today, you have quick-attach/detach accessories (such as the Aimpoint 3x scope and various night vision sights) that work in conjunction with more permanently mounted red-dot sights.

Try to avoid the arcade-ish, gameplay-tweaking features such as accuracy penalty when fitting vertical grips, grenade launchers and such. Introduce accuracy pentalty when the actual device is detrimental to accuracy, otherwise don't (for instance, not all sound suppressors reduce accuracy, though some do).

Look into making the weapons inherently more accurate and replace it with weapon sway/wiggling. That way, if the sight is on target and the mechanical accuracy of the weapon is good, the shot will hit, but it will be harder to aim accurately.

And while we're speaking of sights: Get rid of the magic zoom for red-dot sights and iron sights and remove the fat black edge from red dot sights when two-eyed aiming is supposedly used.

Try to add the accessories that are availible today (not to mention in 2013), such as tactical lights and lasersights (both availible in visible light and NVG-only infrared versions). Other devices includes video gunsight (aiming via rifle-mounted camera and HUD, sticking the gun over/around cover). Likewise, add advanced grenade launcher systems such as accurate elevation adjustment via rangefinder and airbursting grenades.

Add thermal imagery. Definately for weapons sights (availible and in use today) and possibly also for "sensor fusion" (mixing image intensifier and thermal imager into a single image on the HUD).

Look into the use of bipods. It's a complex subject and there is no really ideal solution, but at least check it out, even if you choose not to include it.

More work is needed on ballistics, penetration and lethality. With such short engagement ranges it's difficult to tell if projectiles follow a ballistic arch but it should be included (especially when larger open maps are introduced). Penetration and lethality of kinetic energy warheads (i.e. bullets) is reduced at longer rangs as their velocity decreases.

Being able to kill an enemy by shooting him twice in the hand is not ok, nor is it ok when you shoot someone between the eyes with the .50 cal. rifle and he doesn't die. An opponent shot in the arm may be unable to fight back effectively, but he's still able to run (usually). Likewise someone shot in the leg may be immobile, but he'll still be able to warn his comrades (if necessary) and possibly fire back (badly).

Lethality doesn't equal penetration. For instance, a 5.56x45mm rifle may not be as lethal as the 6.8x43mm (already being modded), but it is much better against body armour. Thus, the 6.8 will be more effective than the 5.56 against an enemy without body armour, while the opposite is the case when the opponent is wearing kevlar. Effects of shooting through wooden and chain-link faces (or thin sheet shacks) e.c.t. needs work.

Look into use of different types of ammunition in the same weapon, notably tracers.

Add the option of rapid or tactical reload. When the latter is used, the half-empty magazine is retained (but it also takes longer to reload because the magazine has to be re-inserted into the magazine pouch).

The same applies to shaped charge vs. kinetic energy warheads against armour, but that's less of an issue with GRAW.

Eliminate the use of sights when night vision is employed as it is not realistic. Players will either have to use a weapons-mounted night vision sight or an infrared lasersight, or quite simply fire from the hip without aiming properly.

Create templates for proper shoulder-fired rockets/missiles, including reloadable ones. Look at what's in use today or in development (Jane's Small Arms is an exellent starting point) and try to copy it's performance and interface.

Take another look at equipment used for marking targets for airstrikes e.c.t. they range from weapons-mounted though hand-held to tripod-mounted devices and distinguish between laser and GPS devices (in relation to the type of weapons guidance employed).

Abandon the Call Of Duty type approach to explosives and such. Have the team equip and carry what they need instead.

Maps & Missions:
The missions should be much, much less scripted. The enemy should react to events during gameplay, not trigger points/zones.

Stop positioning machinegun nests just to increase difficulty at various points during the mission. Place them where it is realistic and approproate and leave them out elsewhere.

Maps must offer a higher degree of freedom. Enemies e.c.t. should be positioned to deal with any encounter from any direction, not just from the route the player is forced to take. There should still be choke points, of course. Maps should take advantage of the full size of the maps (i.e. no more "you're leaving the mission area" messages).

Draw distance must be increased for long range engagements. There is little point in having a 1-mile range .50 cal. sniper rifle if you can't see anything beyond 100m.

In an urban setting, many (ideally all) buildings must be open so both the enemy and the player can enter them both for indoor fighting and for firing from windows e.c.t.

Friendly AI:
The AI should be tweaked (by trial and error) to avoid the worst offenses (standing in the open being fired upon but refusing to shoot back or hide, moving in front of player e.c.t.), and also to enable the player to position teammembers more accurately. A rules-of-engagement (ROE) interface is needed, including attack-when-in-contact, seek cover/retreat-when-in-contact e.c.t. options, and formations that make the team cover all angles (unless told to cover a specific angle of course).

Enemy AI:
The enemy must be more autonomous. When replaying a mission, enemies shouldn't always appear in the same spot and they should try to outflank more as well as provide fire suppression for their teammates if properly armed.

The enemy AI needs to be more alert to what happens around it, i.e. not remaining passive when the guy right next to them get killed. They should move to investigate sounds (debris being noisly kicked around) in particular gunfire. They should be more alert when they've heard a gunshot or seen someone shot than when just guarding/patrolling.

Try adding some civilians and some animal life. Panicked civilians can wreak havoc to even the most carefully planned ambush (as well as warning the enemy) and scaring up a flock of birds can be particularly unnerving duing a recon mission. Guard dogs are still a real and valid element on the modern battlefield. During the Afghan War, Soviet Spetsnaz spent much time and effort on eliminating guard dogs and the same seem to happen today in Afghanistan and Iraq.

COOP:
At least 8 players should be supported in coop. Game-over-when-commander-dies feature should be removed. Host should be able to choose not only difficulty level but also number of respawns availible, including per-team or per-player (ideally, different number of respawns for each player to compensate for differing skill levels).

Multiplayer:
Rule of thumb is to leave the controlling up to the server host. Avoid tweaks and features to control gameplay. Give the server host as many options as possible and let him tweak gameplay instead. The host is usually far more in tune with what goes on in MP servers and you avoid having to deal with the complaints/suggestions for MP tweaking (the host has to do that).

Server host should be able to control not only witch weapons are included, but also witch accessories, number of magazines carried for each weapon, number of grenades e.c.t. The more the merrier.

You may offer default kits (such as realistic ammo loadouts e.c.t.) as a nice gesture.

(Note: I hardly ever play MP and I'm not qualified to discuss the techical side, someone please compile an MP-specific suggestion list)

Modding:
Modding is what will really keep this game alive and maintain interest until expansions/sequels are released. Everything possible should be made to facilitate mods and make the modders job easier.

Facilitating new skins and models is not enough. Modders should have the ability to create new game types e.c.t., i.e. "digging deep" into the game. If they come up with something really new and clever (witch is quite likely), talk to them, copy it for the next patch/expansion/sequel and give them proper credit.

Conclusion:
In short: Improve realism. Improve open, tactical gameplay. Avoid controlling gameplay, offer options instead. Help the modding community as much as possible.

Of course this list is far from complete. Feel free to comment and add suggestions of your own. However, please bear in mind that it's better to have several options to choose from than to object to features you don't like.

Luderbamsen
06-26-2006, 09:59 AM
Okay, the time has come to stop the internal squabbling between whiners and fanbois. It's not getting any of us anywhere and it's quite franky getting boring.

Now it's time to offer some constructive feedback, advice and suggestions. Some may be for patches, others may be for an expansion pack or even GR4 (I personally think the GR brand should not appear on PC again, but that's another story).

Probably Ubi/GRIN has figured out by now that most players weren't satisfied with GRAW as released, and community efforts should now focus on fixing GRAW.

Note: I have deliberately started from GRAW's pre-patched status, and some features may very well be among those included in the patches.

Gameplay:
While jumping most certainly shouldn't be included, there needs to be an option to move over obstacles, at least up to waist height. Ladders e.c.t. need also to be climbable. Ideally, there should be the ability to climb over taller obstacles by soldiers hoisting each other up, opening up gameplay.

Single Player:
Being tied to a single character is a mistake. The player should be able to switch rapidly between characters, just as it was possible to switch between team leaders in the original Rainbow Six.

More mission types, including recon, defend, firefight e.c.t. These should (obviously) also be availible for COOP.

There should be an unlimited number of saves when and where the player wants it.

Interface:
Try to make more (realistic) use of the Advanced Warfighter technology. Unless you can come up with some rock-solid evidence, I'm not going to belive that the system can track friends and foes in 3D and realtime, in relation to helmet movements (in other words, get rid of the diamonds, or at least make removing them an option).

Make CROSSCOM/NARCOM optional. It's not very realistic. (I'd rather have it removed entirely but others might disagree so at least offer the option of disabling it). The system can be used more realistically to transmit/recive images (primarily stills) during recon missions or, say, hunts for war criminals.

Offer more direct control of the drone, notably camera movement, (in part to offset the removal of diamonds). Also look into adding other UAV's wich might be armed or used to guide/designate weapons from artillery or airstrikes.

Unmanned Ground Vechiles (UGV's) are in use already today. They range from miniature scout vechiles to lightly armed (machineguns and grenade launchers) "mini-tanks". Intended to be fielded roughly simultaneously with Advanced Warfighter are larger more sophisticated robot vechiles, able to carry supplies, ammo and small UAV's/UGV's as well as armed versions (up to and including anti tank missiles).

Exploit the opportunity for a proper map display marked with known enemy positions and other pre-mission intelligence (and you can add realtime spotted enemies to replace the HUD diamonds). Expand on the ability of both squad leader and teammembers (SP/COOP/MP) to communicate digitally via this map (i.e. more elaborate command functions, waypoints, markers e.c.t.).

The interface with tanks, APC's and other support assets need to be more elaborate.

Weapons & Equipment:
The modular approach is exellent, build on that. Look into the option of switching accessories during gameplay. Today, you have quick-attach/detach accessories (such as the Aimpoint 3x scope and various night vision sights) that work in conjunction with more permanently mounted red-dot sights.

Try to avoid the arcade-ish, gameplay-tweaking features such as accuracy penalty when fitting vertical grips, grenade launchers and such. Introduce accuracy pentalty when the actual device is detrimental to accuracy, otherwise don't (for instance, not all sound suppressors reduce accuracy, though some do).

Look into making the weapons inherently more accurate and replace it with weapon sway/wiggling. That way, if the sight is on target and the mechanical accuracy of the weapon is good, the shot will hit, but it will be harder to aim accurately.

And while we're speaking of sights: Get rid of the magic zoom for red-dot sights and iron sights and remove the fat black edge from red dot sights when two-eyed aiming is supposedly used.

Try to add the accessories that are availible today (not to mention in 2013), such as tactical lights and lasersights (both availible in visible light and NVG-only infrared versions). Other devices includes video gunsight (aiming via rifle-mounted camera and HUD, sticking the gun over/around cover). Likewise, add advanced grenade launcher systems such as accurate elevation adjustment via rangefinder and airbursting grenades.

Add thermal imagery. Definately for weapons sights (availible and in use today) and possibly also for "sensor fusion" (mixing image intensifier and thermal imager into a single image on the HUD).

Look into the use of bipods. It's a complex subject and there is no really ideal solution, but at least check it out, even if you choose not to include it.

More work is needed on ballistics, penetration and lethality. With such short engagement ranges it's difficult to tell if projectiles follow a ballistic arch but it should be included (especially when larger open maps are introduced). Penetration and lethality of kinetic energy warheads (i.e. bullets) is reduced at longer rangs as their velocity decreases.

Being able to kill an enemy by shooting him twice in the hand is not ok, nor is it ok when you shoot someone between the eyes with the .50 cal. rifle and he doesn't die. An opponent shot in the arm may be unable to fight back effectively, but he's still able to run (usually). Likewise someone shot in the leg may be immobile, but he'll still be able to warn his comrades (if necessary) and possibly fire back (badly).

Lethality doesn't equal penetration. For instance, a 5.56x45mm rifle may not be as lethal as the 6.8x43mm (already being modded), but it is much better against body armour. Thus, the 6.8 will be more effective than the 5.56 against an enemy without body armour, while the opposite is the case when the opponent is wearing kevlar. Effects of shooting through wooden and chain-link faces (or thin sheet shacks) e.c.t. needs work.

Look into use of different types of ammunition in the same weapon, notably tracers.

Add the option of rapid or tactical reload. When the latter is used, the half-empty magazine is retained (but it also takes longer to reload because the magazine has to be re-inserted into the magazine pouch).

The same applies to shaped charge vs. kinetic energy warheads against armour, but that's less of an issue with GRAW.

Eliminate the use of sights when night vision is employed as it is not realistic. Players will either have to use a weapons-mounted night vision sight or an infrared lasersight, or quite simply fire from the hip without aiming properly.

Create templates for proper shoulder-fired rockets/missiles, including reloadable ones. Look at what's in use today or in development (Jane's Small Arms is an exellent starting point) and try to copy it's performance and interface.

Take another look at equipment used for marking targets for airstrikes e.c.t. they range from weapons-mounted though hand-held to tripod-mounted devices and distinguish between laser and GPS devices (in relation to the type of weapons guidance employed).

Abandon the Call Of Duty type approach to explosives and such. Have the team equip and carry what they need instead.

Maps & Missions:
The missions should be much, much less scripted. The enemy should react to events during gameplay, not trigger points/zones.

Stop positioning machinegun nests just to increase difficulty at various points during the mission. Place them where it is realistic and approproate and leave them out elsewhere.

Maps must offer a higher degree of freedom. Enemies e.c.t. should be positioned to deal with any encounter from any direction, not just from the route the player is forced to take. There should still be choke points, of course. Maps should take advantage of the full size of the maps (i.e. no more "you're leaving the mission area" messages).

Draw distance must be increased for long range engagements. There is little point in having a 1-mile range .50 cal. sniper rifle if you can't see anything beyond 100m.

In an urban setting, many (ideally all) buildings must be open so both the enemy and the player can enter them both for indoor fighting and for firing from windows e.c.t.

Friendly AI:
The AI should be tweaked (by trial and error) to avoid the worst offenses (standing in the open being fired upon but refusing to shoot back or hide, moving in front of player e.c.t.), and also to enable the player to position teammembers more accurately. A rules-of-engagement (ROE) interface is needed, including attack-when-in-contact, seek cover/retreat-when-in-contact e.c.t. options, and formations that make the team cover all angles (unless told to cover a specific angle of course).

Enemy AI:
The enemy must be more autonomous. When replaying a mission, enemies shouldn't always appear in the same spot and they should try to outflank more as well as provide fire suppression for their teammates if properly armed.

The enemy AI needs to be more alert to what happens around it, i.e. not remaining passive when the guy right next to them get killed. They should move to investigate sounds (debris being noisly kicked around) in particular gunfire. They should be more alert when they've heard a gunshot or seen someone shot than when just guarding/patrolling.

Try adding some civilians and some animal life. Panicked civilians can wreak havoc to even the most carefully planned ambush (as well as warning the enemy) and scaring up a flock of birds can be particularly unnerving duing a recon mission. Guard dogs are still a real and valid element on the modern battlefield. During the Afghan War, Soviet Spetsnaz spent much time and effort on eliminating guard dogs and the same seem to happen today in Afghanistan and Iraq.

COOP:
At least 8 players should be supported in coop. Game-over-when-commander-dies feature should be removed. Host should be able to choose not only difficulty level but also number of respawns availible, including per-team or per-player (ideally, different number of respawns for each player to compensate for differing skill levels).

Multiplayer:
Rule of thumb is to leave the controlling up to the server host. Avoid tweaks and features to control gameplay. Give the server host as many options as possible and let him tweak gameplay instead. The host is usually far more in tune with what goes on in MP servers and you avoid having to deal with the complaints/suggestions for MP tweaking (the host has to do that).

Server host should be able to control not only witch weapons are included, but also witch accessories, number of magazines carried for each weapon, number of grenades e.c.t. The more the merrier.

You may offer default kits (such as realistic ammo loadouts e.c.t.) as a nice gesture.

(Note: I hardly ever play MP and I'm not qualified to discuss the techical side, someone please compile an MP-specific suggestion list)

Modding:
Modding is what will really keep this game alive and maintain interest until expansions/sequels are released. Everything possible should be made to facilitate mods and make the modders job easier.

Facilitating new skins and models is not enough. Modders should have the ability to create new game types e.c.t., i.e. "digging deep" into the game. If they come up with something really new and clever (witch is quite likely), talk to them, copy it for the next patch/expansion/sequel and give them proper credit.

Conclusion:
In short: Improve realism. Improve open, tactical gameplay. Avoid controlling gameplay, offer options instead. Help the modding community as much as possible.

Of course this list is far from complete. Feel free to comment and add suggestions of your own. However, please bear in mind that it's better to have several options to choose from than to object to features you don't like.

LoneWolf_pt
06-26-2006, 10:54 AM
Must have in multiplayer :

- Possibility to use old gamespy account. I like to use the same nick in all 'fps' i play.
- Replays.
- Indication of the server config. ie: the game version the server is using; mods active; points on or off; etc.
- 'Connect thru IP'.
- Players list in the server browser. When i select a server i need to know who's there.
- An option to refresh the selected server only.
- Support for 3rd party browsers.
- More maps OGR style.


Annoying things in multiplayer :

- No spectator mode.
- Why can't i walk over small obstacles ? I'm not that heavy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
- How can i 'spot' an enemy for my team/squad ? Without using a voice comms, of course. There are people who can't talk (no voice or foreign language) but they still can play.
- In the map, while in the status screen, how can you see were is your squad leader ? Paying 500 bucks to spawn in the first zone isn't a good deal.
- In the status screen, when i click in a squad to see who's there, i join it.
- Server browser are always refreshing. It's not a problem now, because there aren't a lot of servers, yet. But in the near future (i hope) it can become very annoying.
- When leaving a server using the 'Abort' option, the game goes to the main screen instead of the browser screen.

That's all for now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh! And this Beta version is better than the previous Alpha version, so, i'm waiting for the full version to really start enjoying this game in its Full Glory. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif