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DarthLazze
06-26-2011, 04:09 AM
Hi all!

I just played Brotherhood Multiplayer last night, and was actually able to enjoy it for once since there weren't any stupid lvl 50's raping the maps.. And no roof-tossers either. Wow, eh?

First thing I wish to.. "question".
The poison kill.
How annoying is that??
I.e. in a Assassination. You follow your compass, your enemy's lvl 29-50. Your compass fills and you try to / or you do locate your target. Unfortunately he's already poisoned you, either due to a combo of templar vision / poison or other nasty things.
And there's nothing you can do about it, only lie down and reward an astounding 700 points or more to your "skilled" killer..

Poison can be a nice thing, but it kinda makes gameplay sad if it's your only way to win, despite it being legitimate.
I saw "LUXETERNITA" on my maps last night and every round that player had 6-12,000 points just by aerials and poisoning..
Oh well, I guess the point here is: Obviously you can't take poison away, but I don't think of it as a "mega skill kill" that should award 700 points. I guess some guys @lvl 50 only use poison to make sure you win maps, you don't need the xp anyhow.

'nuf about poison, a tweak would be appreciated.

Matchmaking's my second "topic".
Matchmaking works great in finding people and sessions to join, but AC B has become a part of a sad trend for FP Action games these days.. Kills = skills (xp) = levels = advantages.
Nearly every new game has it!
COD BO, Crysis 2, MOH, Blacklight: Tango Down, BC2 etc.
And the levelling thing itself is a great idea to maintain interest, BUT
If you start out as lvl 1 in whatever newer game and play against a top level, you might as well quit beforehand, because you cannot match their advantages at all. You may get a few kills in if you're in a several people session / server, but 1-on-1, you're screwed.

Seeing as Brotherhood MP's not a "join server"-game, then it would be ideal to implement some sort of level matchmaking, so that lvl 1's cannot play against lvl 50's and lvl 50's can't play lvl 1's.
One solution, but the less likely, would be preventing lvl 50's from joining low-lvls if it's only to rape and annoy. This could work if you were allowed to join sessions with players above lvl 25 or so.
An idea that could work, even if tweaked as the above for the top-lvl, could just be session search by level, divided into lvls of 10's or a "find a session with people my own level".
Or if you divided the levels into two groups, high (25/26 - 50) and low (1-25).

This'd be a big improvement imo, seeing as both groups would have equally skilled (except for the lvl gained advantages) opponents.

If it cannot be implemented in Brotherhood, then I would certainly recommend it for Revelations. I mean, when Ubisoft's finally made a multiplayer part for the AC games, they wouldn't want people quitting for not being able to overcome top lvl players.

My 2c here, I look forward to the feedback!

Yours truly,

Lazze

DarthLazze
06-26-2011, 04:09 AM
Hi all!

I just played Brotherhood Multiplayer last night, and was actually able to enjoy it for once since there weren't any stupid lvl 50's raping the maps.. And no roof-tossers either. Wow, eh?

First thing I wish to.. "question".
The poison kill.
How annoying is that??
I.e. in a Assassination. You follow your compass, your enemy's lvl 29-50. Your compass fills and you try to / or you do locate your target. Unfortunately he's already poisoned you, either due to a combo of templar vision / poison or other nasty things.
And there's nothing you can do about it, only lie down and reward an astounding 700 points or more to your "skilled" killer..

Poison can be a nice thing, but it kinda makes gameplay sad if it's your only way to win, despite it being legitimate.
I saw "LUXETERNITA" on my maps last night and every round that player had 6-12,000 points just by aerials and poisoning..
Oh well, I guess the point here is: Obviously you can't take poison away, but I don't think of it as a "mega skill kill" that should award 700 points. I guess some guys @lvl 50 only use poison to make sure you win maps, you don't need the xp anyhow.

'nuf about poison, a tweak would be appreciated.

Matchmaking's my second "topic".
Matchmaking works great in finding people and sessions to join, but AC B has become a part of a sad trend for FP Action games these days.. Kills = skills (xp) = levels = advantages.
Nearly every new game has it!
COD BO, Crysis 2, MOH, Blacklight: Tango Down, BC2 etc.
And the levelling thing itself is a great idea to maintain interest, BUT
If you start out as lvl 1 in whatever newer game and play against a top level, you might as well quit beforehand, because you cannot match their advantages at all. You may get a few kills in if you're in a several people session / server, but 1-on-1, you're screwed.

Seeing as Brotherhood MP's not a "join server"-game, then it would be ideal to implement some sort of level matchmaking, so that lvl 1's cannot play against lvl 50's and lvl 50's can't play lvl 1's.
One solution, but the less likely, would be preventing lvl 50's from joining low-lvls if it's only to rape and annoy. This could work if you were allowed to join sessions with players above lvl 25 or so.
An idea that could work, even if tweaked as the above for the top-lvl, could just be session search by level, divided into lvls of 10's or a "find a session with people my own level".
Or if you divided the levels into two groups, high (25/26 - 50) and low (1-25).

This'd be a big improvement imo, seeing as both groups would have equally skilled (except for the lvl gained advantages) opponents.

If it cannot be implemented in Brotherhood, then I would certainly recommend it for Revelations. I mean, when Ubisoft's finally made a multiplayer part for the AC games, they wouldn't want people quitting for not being able to overcome top lvl players.

My 2c here, I look forward to the feedback!

Yours truly,

Lazze

CerealAssassin
06-26-2011, 04:25 AM
Agree about the matchmaking, its strange though in a ranked game im getting paired with low ranked players most of the time, yet in a player match ive got a better chance of playing against my level (50).

Crumplecorn
06-26-2011, 04:43 AM
Poison is fine, and splitting the playerbase even further, even to differentiate people of different levels, is a bad idea.

CrazyShrapnel
06-26-2011, 05:57 AM
Poison is fine, and the playerbase is small enough as it is. Adding more restrictions on matchmaking at this point would mean you'd be lucky to ever play a match again. Though it would be good in Revelations when there are plenty of people playing.

<sub>...Templar vision and poison? Is he letting sparkly people walk right up to him?</sub>

Assassinine
06-26-2011, 08:11 AM
I entered this thread expecting a conspiracy theory, thread did not deliver http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ok seriously, poison is fine, its exactly like any other kill, the player got close and hit a button to kill you. the difference is that it has roughly 1/4 the attack range, even shorter than stun. if you attempt a stun against someone using poison, most of the time you will win out or at least trade. in the case of a trade your stun points indirectly reduces his point gain, by increasing yours.

theres a reason smoke/poison is so popular, without smoke its very difficult to poison a player who is aware of his surroundings. if someone wants to burn two cooldowns for one kill, so be it

poison trades risk for reward, its harder to use than a regular kill, therefore it earns more. the period of vulnerability is swapped around, with a regular kill you are open to kills/stuns while stuck in the animation, with poison there is a 6 second window for clark kent to fly off his roof and steal your kill and wasting your cooldown.

your target can also use his defensive cooldowns to inconvenience you, in wanted this may not be a problem, but in assassinate it can seal your fate. in team games a poisoned target can smoke your whole team and set up a meaty stun party for his team, and with reset cooldowns loss streak the abilities he JUST used to disable your team are back and ready for use

the points for poison kills are fine, even ignoring the risks involved, it still follows the unofficial standard of 200 points per use, SA Poison scores 300 bonus per use, the other 100 just compensates for the absurdly long CD

someone did the math a while back, SA poison vs RR disguise, over the course of the match they earn roughly the same points, the main difference being RR disguise can earn more points if used EVERY time its up, and the kill is scored quick enough to start the CD early. poison on the other hand is an exclusive bonus for variety, where other point bonus abilities generally earn boni that can be earned in other ways


-I personally stopped using poison outside of certain circumstances, and now i score higher than i ever did using poison, i enjoy getting hidden incognito on every kill, 5 kills 5000 points in the offensive round of manhunt just feels good

my opinion: bad players use poison to inflate scores, good players use poison to score double kills, better players put up comparable or higher scores without it.

but GREAT players change their profile sets to adapt to different situations

LadyGahan2010
06-26-2011, 01:52 PM
I disagree with every single point you made. Uhm, yes, simple as that.
I'm assuming you have no poison? And it was quite a while ago that I saw lvl 50 with templar vision using it in my face. Lower levels yes, all the time, but not really lvl 50, so I have no clue what your complaint is.

lynx_1985
06-26-2011, 02:13 PM
With regards to match making I think they intended on doing what you said, making lobbies of similar levels, however due to the split in DLC packs and the fact that the playerbase for ACB is small enough as a whole it is inevitible that level 1s will be coming up against level 50s.

Poison I have to say is abused sometimes and I am reffering to the people you come across who constantly abuse it in conjunction with smoke bombs. You have to be sneaky to poison someone and I don't mind that at all!

LadyGahan2010
06-26-2011, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Poison I have to say is abused sometimes and I am reffering to the people you come across who constantly abuse it in conjunction with smoke bombs. You have to be sneaky to poison someone and I don't mind that at all! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's offensive smoke bomb problem, rather than poison, and yes, if someone can get close enough to me to poison without smoke bomb, I can respect that.

lynx_1985
06-26-2011, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LadyGahan2010:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Poison I have to say is abused sometimes and I am reffering to the people you come across who constantly abuse it in conjunction with smoke bombs. You have to be sneaky to poison someone and I don't mind that at all! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's offensive smoke bomb problem, rather than poison, and yes, if someone can get close enough to me to poison without smoke bomb, I can respect that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh true, offensive smoke bombs are so frustrating, who ever smokes first should win even if you manage to put one down (unless LL?) the pursuer still gets their kill!

LadyGahan2010
06-26-2011, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lynx_1985:
Ahhh true, offensive smoke bombs are so frustrating, who ever smokes first should win even if you manage to put one down (unless LL?) the pursuer still gets their kill! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh, god, YES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

swiftavenger212
06-26-2011, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LadyGahan2010:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lynx_1985:
Ahhh true, offensive smoke bombs are so frustrating, who ever smokes first should win even if you manage to put one down (unless LL?) the pursuer still gets their kill! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh, god, YES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope they try and remove the delay time mute/smoke have which allow opposition to counter smoke (offensive smoke).

Worst is in assasinate when players run at you with the intend to smoke you instead of locking you.

PryingTuna85649
06-27-2011, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swiftavenger212:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LadyGahan2010:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lynx_1985:
Ahhh true, offensive smoke bombs are so frustrating, who ever smokes first should win even if you manage to put one down (unless LL?) the pursuer still gets their kill! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh, god, YES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope they try and remove the delay time mute/smoke have which allow opposition to counter smoke (offensive smoke).

Worst is in assasinate when players run at you with the intend to smoke you instead of locking you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto about the delay time thing. That happens to me ALL THE TIME now. And I can never pull it off when I'm trying to do some payback in a lobby full of these people.

I don't entirely see anything wrong with smoke/poison, since it does allow for Focus. But since poison has seemed to not work consistently for me anymore (I've been one of the lucky people who stand RIGHT ON TOP OF their target and not have poison go off at times), and because I've seen a few different top players use it in their profile sets, I've made Disguise/Poison part of my profile sets. I'm getting better at it and it's definitely a lot more fun (I'm not wasting a smoke bomb and I do have to be stealthier), but since I used SB/Poison all the time before the DLC (and didn't have to use SB in order to pull poison off), I'm just not against it.

But I did not too long ago have the worst time ever with getting Poisoned. Every time I died in that match, it was from getting poisoned. I think I died 3 times in a minute from Poison at one point in that match. That was extreme. But that's the only time I've encountered it that bad.

thergbcolor
06-27-2011, 12:22 AM
Poison is just one ability out of several that assists with kills / grants a bonus for killing a target while using that skill. If you're saying that skills should not have an effect on points received for executing a kill, then you'd have to apply that argument to everything, wouldn't you? Strong / RR Disguise loses the hidden bonus. It becomes possible to use Hidden Gun for an incognito kill?

If you consider it carefully, you begin to understand that some abilities affect your kill score for a reason, and that the game designers took that into account when they created the game in the first place. My best advice is simple: if someone does something to you in-game that frustrates the crap out of you and makes you rage, learn how to do it, yourself. Once you understand how someone does it, you begin to learn how to counter it.

As for the matchmaking, level isn't necessarily an indication of skill, any more than TGs are. Lots of people have alt accounts on PSN (not sure it's that common on XBOX Live, when you have to pay for it) and I've been put to the test by people of lower levels and TGs before. If you ignore the issue of fragmentation, it's still a bad idea, because learning from someone who plays more efficiently / better / differently from you is the key to gaining experience and skill in this game.

obliviondoll
06-27-2011, 12:36 AM
Your problem with Poison isn't a problem with Poison.

It's a problem with Assassinate.

I can't play Assassinate, because of all the times I lock onto someone WHILE THEY'RE STUNNING/KILLING, and get them as a target, then when I reach them, the kill prompt swaps for a stun prompt and I die. It's literally completely broken and unplayable because of lag, so I don't bother any more. It was ok - not good, but ok, at least some of the time, but not, 90% of the time it's such a laggy mess I may as well not even be in the game. So now, I'm not. Oh well.

But Poison, in and of itself, isn't a broken or unfair ability. You have to get REALLY close, and if someone's using TV/Poison and actually succeeding, you're doing something VERY wrong. Barring REALLY bad lag, of course, which does happen (as I have to keep mentioning, happens a LOT since the per-3.0 patch - PLEASE FIX UBI????)

AntiChrist7
06-27-2011, 01:53 AM
what annoys me the most is getting poisoned when doing a kil, because it takes no skill at all to perform that

lynx_1985
06-27-2011, 02:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AntiChrist7:
what annoys me the most is getting poisoned when doing a kil, because it takes no skill at all to perform that </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is annoying, however, it is an easy kill and everybody does it. Most of the time it is due to the long kill animations and it has been said that stealthy kills in ACR will result in short kill animations. Hopefully you won't see it as much in ACR but if I see my target killing someone, are halfway through their kill animation and I have poison I will poison them!

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-27-2011, 06:20 PM
700 points for poison?

man im getting 1050 at minimum lol

obliviondoll
06-27-2011, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon12-21-2012:
700 points for poison?

man im getting 1050 at minimum lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Incognito + Slow Poison = 700.

If you don't get any other bonuses.

If you drop to Silent, then you need bonuses to reach 700 even with Slow Poison.

Do you ALWAYS get Hidden/Focus, on EVERY Poison you land, EVER? Because otherwise, 1050 minimum seems... unlikely. Not saying you can't do it, just that it's not likely.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-27-2011, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon12-21-2012:
700 points for poison?

man im getting 1050 at minimum lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Incognito + Slow Poison = 700.

If you don't get any other bonuses.

If you drop to Silent, then you need bonuses to reach 700 even with Slow Poison.

Do you ALWAYS get Hidden/Focus, on EVERY Poison you land, EVER? Because otherwise, 1050 minimum seems... unlikely. Not saying you can't do it, just that it's not likely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im usually lurking when i use it

incognito = 300
kill = 100
slow poison = 300
hidden = 200
focus = 150
TOTAL = 1050

i usually go for the most amount of points possible. because most of my games wind up filled by roofers so i take what i can get and take massive advantage of it.

i wont lie, its not easy, and i get stunned ALOT, or i die in the process


majority of my kills come from plain old kills, usually hidden, acrobatic, or if im sneaky(orlucky) enough ill get a focus

obliviondoll
06-27-2011, 07:06 PM
So... you DO pretty much always get Hidden and Focus.

Awesome, I was right.

Good to know.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-27-2011, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
So... you DO pretty much always get Hidden and Focus.

Awesome, I was right.

Good to know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol pretty much

ill give you an internet cookie for your genius

bleederdoll
06-27-2011, 08:07 PM
There are only certain things I do indeed hate about poison. Now me, I only use poison in the first minute, if I don't get anything I"ll change to my poison set.

Yet other people seem to persist in it. I've also seen people actually force 2x poison. Like once, there was a player who started chases. I was on the roof and saw him running on the ground and dashing out of my sight to start a chase. He did this also again a few times and used a 2x poison to get a huge lead.

Now. I do hate that method, which is why I hate it when people use 2x poison to try to get a huge lead and keep using it. I've always only used it in the beginning of the match, dropped it in the minute and then went all stuns.

I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. I work hard getting my kills and whatever bonus, I don't need the help of 2x to do it.

obliviondoll
06-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Thing about people using 2x loss streak aggressively is, they have to be actively GIVING AWAY points, as well as wasting time a skilled player would use reaching and killing their target.

If they get a good 1050 point kill after losing 5 chases, they gave other players AT LEAST 500 points, in addition to wasting the time those players spent scoring their own kills, then actually set up a good kill for themselves. They derp around to get a 1000 point bonus, when they could more easily go for a Silent and Discreet kill, with at least one of them Acrobatic, all of which can be done without using abilities, then go for the 1050 point Incognito/Hidden/Focus/Slow Poison, and they'll be hitting Variety already. Possibly GV as well if they luck into Poacher, Saviour, Chain, etc.

Or, again, in the same amount of time, a noob runner with Hidden Gun could obliterate 6+ contracts for a 200 point average and still get 1200 points without having as much risk of getting caught out by good turtling opponents who don't let you get close enough for Poison, or stuck with mad running roofers you can't catch for Focus.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-27-2011, 09:21 PM
i have the x2 bonus in effect with my poison set. i dont use it offensively though. i try not to lose a single contract. but if by some unimaginable way i manage to loose 5 contracts( this usually results from fast paced games) i will take advantage of it. if ive lost 5 contracts, you better believe im going to try and make it up. ill intentionally wait for a 1050 point poison so that it will double to 2100. but i wont wait more than 30 seconds. ill settle for a nice hidden regular kill and double that

Crumplecorn
06-28-2011, 02:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all, not a cheat, second, uh, yes, in a game where how many points you get determines whether you win, you are going to encounter people who... want... points.

Has a joke of some kind gone over my head? I'm quite sleepy right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

obliviondoll
06-28-2011, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all, not a cheat, second, uh, yes, in a game where how many points you get determines whether you win, you are going to encounter people who... want... points.

Has a joke of some kind gone over my head? I'm quite sleepy right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Basically, if my post was tl;dr, this is your tl;dr version.

awsmith2006
06-28-2011, 02:54 AM
Wow, I don't think you've used the poison very much, have you? It takes more accuracy than you're giving credit. You must actually bump into your target in order to poison them, and that can be difficult. Also, poison only awards 200 pts (300 if you use slow-acting poison, like me.) So, your claim that poison is an easy 700 pts is false. It takes skill to use it well, and it's bonus is more than fair.

Spendalot
06-28-2011, 04:29 AM
The offensive smoke bomb for a focused poison kill is quite cheap IMO.

Sorry, but it just doesn't take as much skill as a stealth poison. I have endless respect for a player who can poison me without me even knowing who did it or when!

So, yeh, i'm happy for poison to stay, but i agree that it should be tweaked.

As for matchmaking, i'm almost certain the ACB team DID incorporate a system to keep players with opponents around the same levels (at least in Ranked Matches), but yes the reduced amount of players online has meant that it kinda went out the window in order to keep matches full.

Ripe Claw
06-28-2011, 04:57 AM
Every time I use smoke to focus a poison, I could have just as easily without the smoke. I don't think most people are relying on the smoke to be able to land the poison, they are using it for a 150 point bonus, or possibly saved their focus to be the bonus that gives them greater variety. I use disguise poison as my main build, but I put on LL smoke at least once a match just for the focus if I haven't gained one naturally. I usually start the match off with the smoke poison simply because there is no chance of it being intercepted and I get the bonuses out of the way right off. Many times, my poison and smoke timers have reset before I have died once, in that case I will use it again just for the few extra points.

Other times I save the focus when I know I'm about to hit GV. With a focus agony incog or silent you get a nice 1500+ poison. If it lands as the 3 streak bonus kill, even better.

I guess if people have to use the smoke just to be able to get a poison off it may be different, I dunno. I land 5 times as many poisons with disguise on than poison though.


I don't know where the line is drawn between being noobish, and being a tactic is, but, if you win almost every match you play, is it still noob?

lynx_1985
06-28-2011, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
There are only certain things I do indeed hate about poison. Now me, I only use poison in the first minute, if I don't get anything I"ll change to my poison set.

Yet other people seem to persist in it. I've also seen people actually force 2x poison. Like once, there was a player who started chases. I was on the roof and saw him running on the ground and dashing out of my sight to start a chase. He did this also again a few times and used a 2x poison to get a huge lead.

Now. I do hate that method, which is why I hate it when people use 2x poison to try to get a huge lead and keep using it. I've always only used it in the beginning of the match, dropped it in the minute and then went all stuns.

I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. I work hard getting my kills and whatever bonus, I don't need the help of 2x to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am exactly the same, I use my poison set to begin with until I get one to go towards my variety. However I do use the 2x loss streak in this set and this set only. I think it is extremely annoying when people get one kill and gain so much or even take over you when you have been running around seeing out your contracts but its there and if people use it then so am I! Highly annoying, but if I ever have a loss of 5 contracts its there to fall back on.

obliviondoll
06-28-2011, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ripe.Claw:
I don't know where the line is drawn between being noobish, and being a tactic is, but, if you win almost every match you play, is it still noob? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I personally draw the line by only saying a tactic is noobish if it's totally reliable and there's no reliable counter to it. Using 2x score is its own counter in a sense, because if you force the 2x score, you're going to be giving away points to get there, or passing up contracts where other players are getting kills. It requires you to give other players a chance to get an uncatchable lead before you can use it.

YourInnate
06-28-2011, 06:48 AM
2x score is a joke. On the way to 2x score you pass over reset cooldowns, which gives you the free poison back. Why do you need 2x score if you can just do the same kill you were going to do twice?

Also, poison kills in conjunction with reset cooldowns is so buggy that if you die before poison kills target and you make it to the score screen / profile select screen without seeing the kill pop up screen, you will get resets. Not to mention that counts as your first kill in a kill streak!

bleederdoll
06-28-2011, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lynx_1985:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
There are only certain things I do indeed hate about poison. Now me, I only use poison in the first minute, if I don't get anything I"ll change to my poison set.

Yet other people seem to persist in it. I've also seen people actually force 2x poison. Like once, there was a player who started chases. I was on the roof and saw him running on the ground and dashing out of my sight to start a chase. He did this also again a few times and used a 2x poison to get a huge lead.

Now. I do hate that method, which is why I hate it when people use 2x poison to try to get a huge lead and keep using it. I've always only used it in the beginning of the match, dropped it in the minute and then went all stuns.

I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. I work hard getting my kills and whatever bonus, I don't need the help of 2x to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am exactly the same, I use my poison set to begin with until I get one to go towards my variety. However I do use the 2x loss streak in this set and this set only. I think it is extremely annoying when people get one kill and gain so much or even take over you when you have been running around seeing out your contracts but its there and if people use it then so am I! Highly annoying, but if I ever have a loss of 5 contracts its there to fall back on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also have 2x loss streak on my poison set as well, but I only use my poison in the beginning. D: I don't ever use it again, seeing as I don't find any satisfaction of using my 2x poison to win a game.

bleederdoll
06-28-2011, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all, not a cheat, second, uh, yes, in a game where how many points you get determines whether you win, you are going to encounter people who... want... points.

Has a joke of some kind gone over my head? I'm quite sleepy right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't try to be a troll or by calling me stupid. I've also stated that I've seen people force the 2x poison so don't get all...whatever on me.

And yes it is a cheat when people actually FORCE the 2x loss streak by causing chases and losing their contracts, by those chases. So I'm sorry if you can't grasp it.

Crumplecorn
06-28-2011, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
And yes it is a cheat when people actually FORCE the 2x loss streak by causing chases and losing their contracts, by those chases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, it isn't.

And don't accuse me of trolling just because I point out your mistake.

CrazyShrapnel
06-28-2011, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all, not a cheat, second, uh, yes, in a game where how many points you get determines whether you win, you are going to encounter people who... want... points.

Has a joke of some kind gone over my head? I'm quite sleepy right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't try to be a troll or by calling me stupid. I've also stated that I've seen people force the 2x poison so don't get all...whatever on me.

And yes it is a cheat when people actually FORCE the 2x loss streak by causing chases and losing their contracts, by those chases. So I'm sorry if you can't grasp it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the point he's trying to make is that it's just another part of the game. Anyone can screw about and lose 5 contracts on purpose. Doesn't sit well with you (Or me tbh), but it's in the game and anyone can do it. Anyone at all.

You make it sound like the difference between using x2 legitimately and using x2 to cheat depends completely on the players intentions. It takes a bit more than thought patterns to turn a situation into pure cheating, imo.

bleederdoll
06-28-2011, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
And yes it is a cheat when people actually FORCE the 2x loss streak by causing chases and losing their contracts, by those chases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, it isn't.

And don't accuse me of trolling just because I point out your mistake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didn't point out a mistake. &gt;: So if someone deliberatly forces 2x loss streak, it isn't cheating? That's pretty much what your saying.

Crumplecorn
06-28-2011, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
You didn't point out a mistake. &gt;: So if someone deliberatly forces 2x loss streak, it isn't cheating? That's pretty much what your saying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's exactly what I'm saying. And your mistake was calling it a cheat.

bleederdoll
06-28-2011, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
You didn't point out a mistake. &gt;: So if someone deliberatly forces 2x loss streak, it isn't cheating? That's pretty much what your saying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's exactly what I'm saying. And your mistake was calling it a cheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

D: Well to me and many other people it IS a cheat, whether you see it or not.

Crumplecorn
06-28-2011, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
D: Well to me and many other people it IS a cheat, whether you see it or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, that's nice for you, but out here in the real world, it isn't.

bleederdoll
06-28-2011, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First of all, not a cheat, second, uh, yes, in a game where how many points you get determines whether you win, you are going to encounter people who... want... points.

Has a joke of some kind gone over my head? I'm quite sleepy right now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't try to be a troll or by calling me stupid. I've also stated that I've seen people force the 2x poison so don't get all...whatever on me.

And yes it is a cheat when people actually FORCE the 2x loss streak by causing chases and losing their contracts, by those chases. So I'm sorry if you can't grasp it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the point he's trying to make is that it's just another part of the game. Anyone can screw about and lose 5 contracts on purpose. Doesn't sit well with you (Or me tbh), but it's in the game and anyone can do it. Anyone at all.

You make it sound like the difference between using x2 legitimately and using x2 to cheat depends completely on the players intentions. It takes a bit more than thought patterns to turn a situation into pure cheating, imo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No its just that this person I was playing, did use it multiple times in that match and other matches I was in with him through the game. He would let himself be killed in order to get a 2x poison. He even just stood there once, not doing a thing, JUST to get 2x poison.

I'm not saying that using 2x poison is bad when its used like once, I've done it before but I won't do it again (never liked it, enjoyed punching people instad). But a player I played with multiple times used it intentionally to get a score of 9k + through the game.

That to me is cheating. I know it's put in the game, but if someone does what he did through the match, then to me that's cheating.

thergbcolor
06-28-2011, 08:54 AM
Doesn't 'cheating' imply that you're doing something outside the normal rules? I recognize that there's no way for game designers to judge intent through programming, but why not make it so 2x score only works if someone else kills your contract before you? Only they didn't.

2x Score irritates me because in team modes (which I play most often) it seems like you're saying "Imma get punched in the teeth a lot to land one poison" but don't many of us also chide people for low-scoring kills?

MrKnox122
06-28-2011, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bleederdoll:
There are only certain things I do indeed hate about poison. Now me, I only use poison in the first minute, if I don't get anything I"ll change to my poison set.

Yet other people seem to persist in it. I've also seen people actually force 2x poison. Like once, there was a player who started chases. I was on the roof and saw him running on the ground and dashing out of my sight to start a chase. He did this also again a few times and used a 2x poison to get a huge lead.

Now. I do hate that method, which is why I hate it when people use 2x poison to try to get a huge lead and keep using it. I've always only used it in the beginning of the match, dropped it in the minute and then went all stuns.

I never understood why people would cheat with 2x poison or even use it, but if they care about how many points they get it doesn't matter to me. I work hard getting my kills and whatever bonus, I don't need the help of 2x to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with Blee here just because it cheating here my reason why.

It's Boosting
You force Contract Lost
You relate on the 2x to win

I faced people like that who try win that way but I still able to win I find dumb how people force contract lost.

Crumplecorn
06-28-2011, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrKnox122:
It's Boosting </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, it's not. And stating that it is (whether the statement is "It's cheating" or "It's boosting") does not make it so.

ABXantos
06-28-2011, 09:06 AM
I use x2 as a way to catch up in lobbies where I tend to get kill or get poached a lot. This is why x2 was designed for, to catch up in those situations to retake control of the game.

Its hard to boost that x2 in any mode, although it is much easier to do in a team mode.

IBYCFOTA
06-28-2011, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thergbcolor:
Doesn't 'cheating' imply that you're doing something outside the normal rules? I recognize that there's no way for game designers to judge intent through programming, but why not make it so 2x score only works if someone else kills your contract before you? Only they didn't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Cheating is generally very black and white, like exploiting a glitch to gain an advantage. We're dealing with semantics here, but I would say in this case it's more of an exploit of an easily abused game mechanic than anything else.

What I like least about 2x score is that you can use a reset cooldowns / blender set, lose 5 contracts, and then switch to a poison class for 2x score. To me that's pretty lame. If you want to reap the benefits of 2x score, you should have to have lost those 5 contracts with it equipped.

ABXantos
06-28-2011, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IBYCFOTA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thergbcolor:
Doesn't 'cheating' imply that you're doing something outside the normal rules? I recognize that there's no way for game designers to judge intent through programming, but why not make it so 2x score only works if someone else kills your contract before you? Only they didn't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Cheating is generally very black and white, like exploiting a glitch to gain an advantage. We're dealing with semantics here, but I would say in this case it's more of an exploit of an easily abused game mechanic than anything else.

What I like least about 2x score is that you can use a reset cooldowns / blender set, lose 5 contracts, and then switch to a poison class for 2x score. To me that's pretty lame. If you want to reap the benefits of 2x score, you should have to have lost those 5 contracts with it equipped. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can but it takes soooo much time its not even worth it.

In order to purposely lose the 5 contracts, you have to get stunned by them, someone else kills them, or lose lose a chase with them. You can't just start randomly killing NPCs.

Lets say we start off Wanted. In order to get a 10k Wanted game you need to be scoring 1000 points every minute (and then within the mid game you have to actually start scoring 2000 per minute to beat the clock to actually get the 10k at the end).

So lets say within the first 1 minute you get stunned and killed. We are at two down. You purposely start a chase and get your 3. You legitimately lose your 4th one after a total of two minutes, and you are just waiting for that 5th one to go. say it takes 2 half minutes to get this done and say you switched from a RC blend set to a poison set you wasted a good amount of time already your x2 kill better be worth more than 3000 points if you want to catch up (and without doing nothing before hand its not gonna happen).

Say your x2 Is an Incognito Focus Hidden Poison (1050) thats only 2100 and if you wasted 3 or so minutes you are WAY behind where you should be (approximately 4000 points, 1900 different, about 6 silent kills behind)

Sure in a theory x2 can be abused, but in practicality it is not worth trying to execute.
In all my 10ks I never had to use x2. In fact if If x2 ever pops up for me, I'm not getting a 10k game.

IBYCFOTA
06-28-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm just going by what Blee said. If somebody has perfected this strategy to be able to get huge scores on a consistent basis, I'd say that qualifies as an exploit. It does does sound like more trouble than it's worth though, and I've never actually came across somebody that tried it. But again, if somebody has figured out how to abuse it in this manner, it's definitely a cheap tactic and one that Ubisoft should look to correct in the future.

Unfortunately, 2x score has the problem that I mentioned earlier, in that you can switch to a class with 2x score AFTER you lose 5 contracts. And because of that, in theory, everybody who loses 5 contracts should be switching out one perk so they have 2x score the next time they respawn. Let's be honest here, that's not how it was intended to be used. Not that I would blame anybody for doing it, though ..

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-28-2011, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.B.Xantos:
I use x2 as a way to catch up in lobbies where I tend to get kill or get poached a lot. This is why x2 was designed for, to catch up in those situations to retake control of the game.

Its hard to boost that x2 in any mode, although it is much easier to do in a team mode. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


glad someone else gets how x2 bonus was intended to be used.

Smavey
06-28-2011, 04:08 PM
This thread is hilarious...2x cannot be abused.

You have to GIVE people points AND time to get it. Anywhere from 500-1600 points you give, as well as around 2-3 minutes of lost time.

all of this for 700 extra points? Okay...

If you are "abusing" it (getting it 3 times in a match) there is NO way you can get more than 4-5k points in the match since you will only be getting three 1400 point kills (if you are lucky).

Hilarious thread. Really. Even changing into it after 5 contract losses isn't abusing anything. Stacking kill streaks is more of an abuse than this.

IBYCFOTA
06-28-2011, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smavey:
Even changing into it after 5 contract losses isn't abusing anything. Stacking kill streaks is more of an abuse than this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Abuse is a strong word in this instance, taking advantage of a flawed perk system is more like it.

Spendalot
06-28-2011, 05:35 PM
I agree that "cheat" is too harsh of a word - it's not cheating at all. It's just a pretty lousy tactic, along with roofing and gun kills.

And on the smoke bombs for focus poisons, i get how people can say they "could've" landed the poison without the smoke bomb, but the problem is we'll never know.... cos they didn't.
I still maintain it takes less skill to land a smoke poison than a regular poison and it's ten million times less impressive. Major kudos to anyone who can land a poison kill without their target EVER knowing who got them and when.

Ripe Claw
06-28-2011, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spendalot:

And on the smoke bombs for focus poisons, i get how people can say they "could've" landed the poison without the smoke bomb, but the problem is we'll never know.... cos they didn't.
I still maintain it takes less skill to land a smoke poison than a regular poison and it's ten million times less impressive. Major kudos to anyone who can land a poison kill without their target EVER knowing who got them and when. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So landing 1 poison per match with a smoke bomb attached in a match that you get 4 agonies the other 3 of which were 3 out of the 6 hidden kills you got in that round isn't proof enough?

IBYCFOTA
06-28-2011, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spendalot:
I agree that "cheat" is too harsh of a word - it's not cheating at all. It's just a pretty lousy tactic, along with roofing and gun kills.

And on the smoke bombs for focus poisons, i get how people can say they "could've" landed the poison without the smoke bomb, but the problem is we'll never know.... cos they didn't.
I still maintain it takes less skill to land a smoke poison than a regular poison and it's ten million times less impressive. Major kudos to anyone who can land a poison kill without their target EVER knowing who got them and when. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's more important, impressing your opponents or outscoring them?

I concur with the other guy on the matter. The only time that I couldn't have gotten a clean poison kill would be when my opponent smokes / mutes me, and that rarely happens to me. Besides, if you're able to walk up and smoke bomb your target without him reacting, why woulsn't you be able to poison him without it? It isn't more difficult to execute in the slightest. It's actually probably even easier.

Personally, I only ever go for a focus + poison kill in the beginning of the match. Doing so puts you in an excellent position to earn Greater Variety, which can easily mean the difference between winning and losing in the end. I really don't see what the big deal is.

obliviondoll
06-28-2011, 10:52 PM
AT WORST, you can call deliberate targeting of the 2x score loss streak "exploiting" - it's not cheating, because the ability to do so is BUILT INTO THE GAME.

It's not boosting, because the best scores without deliberately aiming for it are just as good as, if not better than, when you do use it.

Also, you can't just kill random NPCs, lose contracts, and get the streak - you have to track down your target and GIVE THEM 100 POINTS before the game will count the loss towards your streak. Or, soemone has to kill your target, meaning the killer EARNS MORE POINTS (minimum 100).

So, you give away AT LEAST 500 points to other players before you can double your kill score. So getting that decent 600 point kill and doubling it only gave you 100 points more than you had to give away. Is it really worth it? What if one of your contract losses was on a target who got killed for 1150 points? LaChatNoir has done this many times already - and was doing so BEFORE she got to play with Poison. I was still level 20 when I first broke 1200 points on a kill. And taking 3 minutes to set up a "perfect" 3000 point kill might put you in the lead, but what if someone steals your kill while you wait for Focus? Then you need to spend even more time waiting for a new target, tracking them down, and setting up - an if you're relying on Smoke for the Focus, you have to wait for your cooldown again. And what if YOU get killed while waiting for Focus? Same again, but add a respawn delay before you can even reach the "waiting for target" part of the process.

Also keep in mind, that 500 is assuming you DON'T get stunned by ANY target EVER. Every time you do, bump it up 100 points. And if you're stunned while landing your perfect Poison x2 kill? That's another 200 points your score has to try and balance.

Smavey
06-29-2011, 01:01 AM
^^

This.

It's not even an exploit. It's like....a detriment?

Spendalot
06-29-2011, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ripe.Claw:
So landing 1 poison per match with a smoke bomb attached in a match that you get 4 agonies the other 3 of which were 3 out of the 6 hidden kills you got in that round isn't proof enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If someone focus poisons me with a smoke bomb, i can't follow them for the rest of the match to see how skilled they are; all i can do is assume that they're incapable of poisoning without the smoke bomb.
I'm really not trying to start an argument about it, bud, and there's no malice intended against particular players, but it's just my opinion on that particular tactic.

Spendalot
06-29-2011, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IBYCFOTA:
What's more important, impressing your opponents or outscoring them?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're absolutely right. And i understand that - i've never thought WHY did that player just use that tactic. It's just one that i'm not a fan of and i'm just voicing that here and also complimenting anyone who can poison without it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Besides, if you're able to walk up and smoke bomb your target without him reacting, why woulsn't you be able to poison him without it? It isn't more difficult to execute in the slightest. It's actually probably even easier.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Completely disagree here, though - it's far easier to smoke someone than it is to poison without smoke.
The smoke bomb has a good range, whereas poison requires you to be touching. It takes a certain amount of skill to get in smoking vicinity of your opponent without them noticing, but it takes a HELL of a lot more skill to touch them without them realising who you are.

Crumplecorn
06-29-2011, 08:03 AM
Assuming makes u an *** out of me.

Or, um, something...

CrazyShrapnel
06-29-2011, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
Assuming makes u an *** out of me.

Or, um, something... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you assume you make an *** out of u and me.

I'll go back to lurking now.

Crumplecorn
06-29-2011, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crumplecorn:
Assuming makes u an *** out of me.

Or, um, something... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you assume you make an *** out of u and me.

I'll go back to lurking now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That makes much more cents http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

IBYCFOTA
06-29-2011, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spendalot:
Completely disagree here, though - it's far easier to smoke someone than it is to poison without smoke.
The smoke bomb has a good range, whereas poison requires you to be touching. It takes a certain amount of skill to get in smoking vicinity of your opponent without them noticing, but it takes a HELL of a lot more skill to touch them without them realising who you are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In theory, maybe. In practice, not really. I've gotten tons of poison kills in ACB with and without using smoke bombs and there is almost no discernable difference in difficulty on 95% of opponents.

Spendalot
06-29-2011, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IBYCFOTA:
In theory, maybe. In practice, not really. I've gotten tons of poison kills in ACB with and without using smoke bombs and there is almost no discernable difference in difficulty on 95% of opponents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hugely disagree, but i don't think either of us are gonna sway eachother on the matter. Agree to disagree, bud. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ripe Claw
06-29-2011, 06:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spendalot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ripe.Claw:
So landing 1 poison per match with a smoke bomb attached in a match that you get 4 agonies the other 3 of which were 3 out of the 6 hidden kills you got in that round isn't proof enough? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If someone focus poisons me with a smoke bomb, i can't follow them for the rest of the match to see how skilled they are; all i can do is assume that they're incapable of poisoning without the smoke bomb.
I'm really not trying to start an argument about it, bud, and there's no malice intended against particular players, but it's just my opinion on that particular tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not trying to start anything either, just trying to wrap my head around the thought process.

You don't have to follow them around, you can check the score at the end of the match and see the kills and make a guess at what people did. Also if you get killed by a person 4 times, and they only smoke you once, you can guess that they could have smoke poisoned you again if that was all they were doing.

Maybe lots of people do use smoke just to land the poison, I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I do and trying to explain that they might just be bonus hunting. I use smoke for the first set when the match begins, but switch to disguise once I have been killed and never look back . Hidden kills give 200 points, focus just 150. I usually get upset with myself if I don't get at least 4 hidden, I try to get 5 or more every time, but if less than 4, I feel like I totally failed that match.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-29-2011, 08:03 PM
look at it this way


if someone uses smoke to poison another person, that leaves them with NO ABILITIES. which lets be honest, it makes a player extremely vulnerable. it also makes your target easy to spot (or you) when you throw smoke

also, its just an extra 150 points for focus. i can make that up with a hidden gun kill in midair + 50pts. not hard to over come

i think most people use it just to get the focus bonus for points or a mark toward greater variety or EV. i do.

what erks me is the several dozen people who constantly use smoke/poison then make a mad dash for the hills after they kill

obliviondoll
06-29-2011, 09:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon12-21-2012:
also, its just an extra 150 points for focus. i can make that up with a hidden gun kill in midair + 50pts. not hard to over come </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummm... Mid Air is +100

Poacher, Revenge, Saviour are the +50 bonuses you'll see on a Gun kill. Or Co-Op if you're in one of those modes.

But seriously, one of my favourite moments was a guy relying on Smoke/Poison who had his headset on. He showed up, quickly ran in and dropped Smoke and was muttering "come on, Focus..." when his pursuer aerialed him and he swore VERY loud. I loled.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-29-2011, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon12-21-2012:
also, its just an extra 150 points for focus. i can make that up with a hidden gun kill in midair + 50pts. not hard to over come </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummm... Mid Air is +100

Poacher, Revenge, Saviour are the +50 bonuses you'll see on a Gun kill. Or Co-Op if you're in one of those modes.

But seriously, one of my favourite moments was a guy relying on Smoke/Poison who had his headset on. He showed up, quickly ran in and dropped Smoke and was muttering "come on, Focus..." when his pursuer aerialed him and he swore VERY loud. I loled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats what im saying.
focus = 150.
hidden gun kill = 100
+ mid air = 100.
total = 200
thats 50 points more than a focus points lol

i will admit, worst thing ever is getting the sneak on someone with poison, or using smoke/poison and either you get killed, or someone intercepts your poison. i absolutely HATE that. its one thing i think should be taken out of the game. or at least you should be able to turn around and kill the person that took your poison

obliviondoll
06-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Sorry, my bad. I misunderstood.

And as for Poison intercepts, and getting killed waiting for Focus, they're both your own fault.

I've used Smoke on my target's other pursuer once to avoid letting them steal my Poison kill, try it, they HATE you when you do.

I think the first time I did that was the one of the first times I got hatemail, actually...

Ripe Claw
06-29-2011, 10:17 PM
When I poison someone with multiple pursuers and I'm not in danger, I hang around and bash into anyone about to kill them until my poison takes out it's intended victim. It's kind of a low down move I guess, but I got there first! I don't get to do this very often as I am rarely out of danger.

DEMON-12_21_2O12
06-30-2011, 06:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
Sorry, my bad. I misunderstood.

And as for Poison intercepts, and getting killed waiting for Focus, they're both your own fault.

I've used Smoke on my target's other pursuer once to avoid letting them steal my Poison kill, try it, they HATE you when you do.

I think the first time I did that was the one of the first times I got hatemail, actually... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol ill give it a try. i just hate when i have to lurk and sneak, finally get close enough for an incognito poison, land it, then someone else comes in and shoots or arials them

PryingTuna85649
06-30-2011, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
Sorry, my bad. I misunderstood.

And as for Poison intercepts, and getting killed waiting for Focus, they're both your own fault.

I've used Smoke on my target's other pursuer once to avoid letting them steal my Poison kill, try it, they HATE you when you do.

I think the first time I did that was the one of the first times I got hatemail, actually... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol! I never would have thought of doing that. I don't think of myself as cunning enough to do that (I try to avoid poison completely on someone with multiple pursuers). I don't have smoke/poison set up anymore (trying to get disguise/poison down, because it's more fun right now), but maybe I'll set it up to try. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

obliviondoll
06-30-2011, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PryingTuna85649:
Lol! I never would have thought of doing that. I don't think of myself as cunning enough to do that (I try to avoid poison completely on someone with multiple pursuers). I don't have smoke/poison set up anymore (trying to get disguise/poison down, because it's more fun right now), but maybe I'll set it up to try. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I didn't mean to Poison someone with multiple pursuers.

I Poisoned him when he made a kill, that kill put him into 2nd place, then he got another pursuer. I stuck around to make sure the second pursuer didn't show up, then saw a guy running RIGHT up to the corner then slowing down the way so many players do, where he'd be visible in the running animation before he dropped back to low profile. So I rushed in and Smoke Bombed him. Got hatemail for it - basically said, "I was about to complete my 15 second kill challenge when you Smoke Bombed me - I wasn't even after you ****"

Yeah, I know you were near your target. He died while you were in my Smoke. How do I know? I Poisoned him. No kill for you!

Spendalot
06-30-2011, 05:11 PM
I quite like how interceptions work - it's clever how everyone (but the target) can see the poison taking effect and thus any other pursuers know they must act fast if they still want that kill; it suddenly changes everything.

Poison being intercepted doesn't usually bother me (sure, there's swearing, but in a light-hearted way). I tend to just kick myself for poisoning someone with multiple pursuers.
It's when in Manhunt and your poison is intercepted by your own team-mate - THAT'S when i get pretty frustrated! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ripe.Claw:
Also if you get killed by a person 4 times, and they only smoke you once, you can guess that they could have smoke poisoned you again if that was all they were doing.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If i get killed by the same person 4 times in a Wanted match i'd be too busy hurling my controller at the wall to begin pondering what style of player they are. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif lol

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Maybe lots of people do use smoke just to land the poison, I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I do and trying to explain that they might just be bonus hunting.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But this is just like a roofer saying "i only roof at the beginning of the match to get an aerial bonus." It makes sense and it's a solid tactic, but they're still a roofer (all-be-it, part-time) and it's still a tactic i personally dislike.

PryingTuna85649
07-01-2011, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PryingTuna85649:
Lol! I never would have thought of doing that. I don't think of myself as cunning enough to do that (I try to avoid poison completely on someone with multiple pursuers). I don't have smoke/poison set up anymore (trying to get disguise/poison down, because it's more fun right now), but maybe I'll set it up to try. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I didn't mean to Poison someone with multiple pursuers.

I Poisoned him when he made a kill, that kill put him into 2nd place, then he got another pursuer. I stuck around to make sure the second pursuer didn't show up, then saw a guy running RIGHT up to the corner then slowing down the way so many players do, where he'd be visible in the running animation before he dropped back to low profile. So I rushed in and Smoke Bombed him. Got hatemail for it - basically said, "I was about to complete my 15 second kill challenge when you Smoke Bombed me - I wasn't even after you ****"

Yeah, I know you were near your target. He died while you were in my Smoke. How do I know? I Poisoned him. No kill for you! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

People do stuff like that and get ****ed as if they are expecting you to know they are doing a certain challenge. Part of the difficulty of the different challenges is completing these tasks WHILE competing with other players. It's all part of the game. I would probably be mad in his situation, also, but I wouldn't be sending the person messages like that.

I played ranked Assassinate earlier today (I posted this in "things that annoy you," so sorry if you've read it already) and joined a lobby at the tail end of a match. The top player got almost 10K and you could hear him over the mic making some snobby comment about being happy with his score. The next 2 matches, he would run toward me (I guess expecting I would notice) and tried locking onto me at the last moment in order to kill me. I guess he didn't think I knew what was going on, because when he would get stuck in my SB (which I didn't think would even work, because it almost NEVER works against people running anymore), he started swearing non-stop. He kept coming back, trying the same thing each time and failing. Which made him angrier and angrier to the point he exploded, screaming profanities in the mic and blaming it on lag (not that I actually saw him ahead of time, which I always did and usually before he started running, but couldn't get a lock on him because I suck at the lock system). He also said he was going to report people, at which point I muted him and reported him. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't know if he got a message about being reported, but the next match it made him mad enough to not care about his score anymore and ONLY come after me. He was lucky it was on Alhambra, because I don't know that map AT ALL and he was able to have his tiny little dreams come true. Well, for about 2 minutes of the match. But by me joining his game, his score dropped from almost 10K to the 6-7K range. If my average skills were enough to make his score drop that much, then he's really not that good of a player. And if he does have a high templar score/rank, he's either gotten lucky with the matches he's played or he's just having a streak of bad luck.

Either way, that's no reason to make false accusations and try to get people in trouble for your poor playing skills.

PryingTuna85649
07-01-2011, 02:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spendalot:
I quite like how interceptions work - it's clever how everyone (but the target) can see the poison taking effect and thus any other pursuers know they must act fast if they still want that kill; it suddenly changes everything.

Poison being intercepted doesn't usually bother me (sure, there's swearing, but in a light-hearted way). I tend to just kick myself for poisoning someone with multiple pursuers.
It's when in Manhunt and your poison is intercepted by your own team-mate - THAT'S when i get pretty frustrated! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I used to get mad about intercepted, but I take responsibility for those situations now. But when a teammate does it, that's a COMPLETELY different story. And I've had teammate friends do it just as often as teammate randoms...though I typically only use it now with teammate friends, so that's probably why (I actually don't use poison much at all anymore).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ripe.Claw:
Also if you get killed by a person 4 times, and they only smoke you once, you can guess that they could have smoke poisoned you again if that was all they were doing.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If i get killed by the same person 4 times in a Wanted match i'd be too busy hurling my controller at the wall to begin pondering what style of player they are. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This happens to me all the time. It made me mad at first, but not so much anymore since I get the same contract multiple times in a row also (so it's mutual, which is fair). What I don't like is when I get spawned right next to the person who JUST killed me in Assassinate. I've had that happen several times. Or when people in Assassinate choose only one person to go after...I've had that happen twice now. The first one made me really mad because it was 2 on 1, and these people knew I was having a very difficult time with the game mode. That's probably why I quit playing ACB entirely for a while. There's no reason for that behavior outside of being unjustifiably malicious. The second time the guy was just an idiot and it didn't bug me because he was the one with the problem, not me (see my other post).