Only 4-player CO-OP? Not good enough!

[Luderbamsen]

WK's interview (great stuff BTW) indicates only 4-player COOP. IMHO that is not nearly enough. COOP is a key feature of GR and it simply HAS to allow for more than 4 players.

Let your opinion be heard here (GRIN is probably listening): What is a reasonable number? What can be done to fix it? Speak out!

[Luderbamsen]

WK's interview (great stuff BTW) indicates only 4-player COOP. IMHO that is not nearly enough. COOP is a key feature of GR and it simply HAS to allow for more than 4 players.

Let your opinion be heard here (GRIN is probably listening): What is a reasonable number? What can be done to fix it? Speak out!

[Kurtz_]

- 4 man coop is very poor. GR had 9 man coop. We looked for 12 to 16 man coop. Totally no reason for this limitation.

- you can split your squad but not directly control the other unit.

- no replays, that is a major tool for admins to catch cheaters.

- no way to toggle off the weapon view, should be able to turn weapon view off.

My 2 cents.

[Prozac360]

werd

[WhiteKnight77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurtz_: - no way to toggle off the weapon view, should be able to turn weapon view off.

My 2 cents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keep an eye out for word of a new view that I am sure many of us will enjoy, I hope to have confirmation of it soon for reporting on.

[Luderbamsen]

My point is, 4 players is unacceptable, period. GR:AW simply MUST have more than that in order to succeed. The other features may or may not be to my liking, and I may want them changed (if not now then in a future update/expansion), but it doesn't really determine if I buy GR:AW or not.

However, the 4 player only COOP is a key parameter for buying or not buying. Anyone agree or disagree?

[SimDood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
However, the 4 player only COOP is a key parameter for buying or not buying. Anyone agree or disagree? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but this is what I can't work out. In the interview it states that Co-Op 4 player is only available on SP maps, and then further on states that there will be 32 player support for Co-Op & FFA on MP maps against AI as well. I'm trying to figure out the differences here.

Here at Alpha Squad we're quite apprehensive about this, as we have solid plans for SR2005 and also what we will be doing in the future. I hope this can be cleared up.

WK, HangTown or anyone else, can you elaborate on this to clear it up?

[Cobblers]

Well maybe this is due to the fact that I've never been a big coop GR1 player, but it won't matter at all for me.

In fact, it makes Coop sound more appealing to me now.

See, the only time I ever wanted to play coop was late at night, with a few close friends who were all after the same type of experience as myself. I never liked joining a massive GR coop server, as you've got some people who are just not willing to play their part and cover your **** etc. Where as with a four man team, comms will be easier to deal with and every player will have an important and active role to play now.

The idea that the maps could take hours to complete and the AI improvements is also VERY appealing and I can see myself taking to coop alot.

(waits for the battering)

[SimDood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I never liked joining a massive GR coop server, as you've got some people who are just not willing to play their part and cover your **** etc.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that depends where you play. We've got some pretty strict rules around what is acceptable/desirable and what is not. Granted that sometimes things can get out of hand, but I would state that this is an exception, not the rule. You should pop by to the Alpha Squad public server some time and see what it's like.

GR1 Co-Op capabilities against an AI should be considered a minimum acceptable standard to be applied to GRAW, as there are a LOT of Co-Op groups around who are familiar with this style, and some awesome Co-Op tourneys have been run over the years that really test the ability of bigger teams to get their act together.

As I have stated, we have modified 90% of all the standard GR missions and custom missions to support Co-Op teams of up to 27 players. Although we rarely get 27 Co-Op players at any one time, most of the harder missions are played with at least 15.

Give us at least 9 slots for Co-Op missions, as per GR1, and that would be a great start.

[weeman111111]

Im not sure wether I like the 4 player coop or not

A reason that i like the sound of a 4player coop is that as cobblers said it will allow the teams to act more orginized and cut down on the amount of people that rush ahead just so they can get the most AI kills, But at the same time I dont like the sound of them because I am in a squad and 4 players at a time is going to mean that people are left out at times or we dont play coop.

The sound of the long missions is music to my ears I like something that is going to keep me entertained for long periods of time I just hope that there are plenty of the missions.

[D.i.C.e]

this is not GR its GRAW..
gezz you guys cant have it all your way,
if thats the case just reinstall ghost recon 1

and rename the EXE to GRAW.EXE ,,..

4 man coop is fine we can always mod our own missions. to handle more.. players

The only thing thats bothering be is the fact there will be no replays.
but i know the reson for it so its ok.

just as long as we can have a good Anti cheat team on GRAW's side

[SimDood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
4 man coop is fine we can always mod our own missions. to handle more.. players
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're assuming that will be possible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[CDN_Angus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SimDood:
You're assuming that will be possible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No he isn't: http://www.ghostrecon.net/html/interview-grin-2.htm
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Will there be modding ability right out of the box and if so, what kind?

There will be a level/sand-box type editor on release. It will also feature scripting language and all objects available in game can be used. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[SimDood]

Hopefully that is right, but it begs the question... If it can be done with scripting etc, why is there a limitation on Co-Op players to 4 to begin with?

Why not open it up to 9 minimum, and if you want to take 4, then so be it?

I'm not wanting to be negative about this, because GRAW is looking and sounding **** good, I just got this uneasy feeling that Co-Op is going to be very disappointing with all this uncertainty that is going on.

The interview did state that MP will support 32 players, and mentioned the AI in this mode, I'm just hoping that it means you will be able to play with up to 32 players against an AI in missions. That would would clear everything up.

Just so the peeps know, we were planning on running SR2005 as a major send-off to GR1, and a hats-off to Ubi for giving us many years of great gaming, I just hope it's not going to be at the expense of our future ambitions here at Alpha Squad.

[D.i.C.e]

my guess is that GRIN the makers of GRAW.
know the limits
of the game when it comes to runing smoothly
on release.

[Luderbamsen]

Erm, just realised my posts could be contrived as very negative. So just for the record: I think GR:AW looks pretty great so far. Exept for the 4-player COOP limiation. I mean, what do I do if 4 mates show up for some COOP fun? (and yes I DO have more than 3 friends...)

[Prozac360]

if we can mod missions for more people then heck i dont care.

[babydave]

the graphics and AI etc promised sound pretty impressive, if they are that resource intensive then you cant expect the average PC to be able to cope with the extra data being transferred for friendly AI. im sure its not cos they just wanted to cap it at 4 for the sake of it.....

and noone knows if it will be possible to script the game to allow more players, its not even out yet.

[Luderbamsen]

point taken, babydave. I'd say that if the 4-player limitation can be removed via mods or upgrades/expansions, I'd be happy. My fear is that it's a permanent, unchageable feature. Comments WhiteKnight?

[babydave]

not neccessarily unchangeable

BUT

If the devs cant do it because of performance issues, then we most definately cannot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Kurtz_]

I think the 4 man coop is due to the fact that the missions have live insertions where you engage the enemy from the vehicle or chopper and there has to be a limit of fixed points.

[D.i.C.e]

well that shouldent matter i remeber
We worked on a mission for 1.0.0.2
we put the Heli from IT in the MBC
and had teams load up and while in air we could shoot out the heli with no problem
and no lag.
and the coop was 10 men coop.
worked fine.

[weeman111111]

its a possibility that they have capped it at 4 players for scalability so that the people with the lower end computers required for the game can play the coop.

If Grin made this too high so that people with lower end computers cant play with over 4 players then they would have to increase the minimum system requirements otherwise people would complain that they have the minimum system requirements and should be able to play all of the features in the game.

Swat 4 had a 4 player limit on it and our server admin cracked this and we could have up tp 12 people i think it was but once we hit 5 people the pings would start rising drastically even tho its was a professionally hosted system hooked up to a 10gb line so maybe this is kind of the same situation.

[Delta_Hoot]

4 men coop is fine as long as we are talking about regular missions. If we can do it in SP mode, then in CO-OP is obviuously way easier, unless they are gonna thrown in more tasks and enemies when playing COOP.

Olny extreme missions with hundreds of enemies require more than 4 players. Stanrdard missions were always easy anyway.

So let's hope they learned from the custom modded missions...

[ZaxisUG-com]

Only 4 players and two hour coop missions.... Sh*te, people are going be really afraid of dying... If someone does something stupid early in the game they might have to wait for TWO hours! Playing a game where you're actually worried about dying sounds very interesting.

[K0LDING]

Hi,

Just wanted to bring attention back to this one! Anyone know of a status on coop since WhiteKnights excellent interview?

We are an 8-player clan that totally relies on coop play. We can live with coop (8-16 players) being limited to "terroristhunt" and not missions but some coop mode for 8+ players will mean the difference to us.

Did any official word get out on this?

[Ed_1]

Do you need to be more then 4 people to beat a bunch of AI.. that is what beeing a Ghost is all about... going inn out numbered and still rule the battlefield.. it will be like AA: overmatch whenever that is released....

small group of SF vs a bunch of AI...

[K0LDING]

The key is -&gt; we are 8 people who like to play together and not divided into two separate games. And yes, we are probably not that fantastic fighters (we are even aged close to 40 - so reflexes are not what they used to be!)! We need all of us to take the 105 tangoes on Elite mode in RVS ;-)

[SimDood]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ed_1:
Do you need to be more then 4 people to beat a bunch of AI.. that is what beeing a Ghost is all about... going inn out numbered and still rule the battlefield.. it will be like AA: overmatch whenever that is released....

small group of SF vs a bunch of AI... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I challenge you, and 3 of your friends, to come on to Alpha Squad's public Co-Op server and try and beat a "bunch" of our tangos.

We've got missions where 18-20 Co-Op players (we support up to 27 in Co-Op missions) will not make it out alive. (We run no respawns, no IFF, 60 minute timer)

Good teamwork and a lot of planning *might* see you through....

If we had 9 player Co-Op MP minimum, I'd be happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Ed_1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SimDood:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ed_1:
Do you need to be more then 4 people to beat a bunch of AI.. that is what beeing a Ghost is all about... going inn out numbered and still rule the battlefield.. it will be like AA: overmatch whenever that is released....

small group of SF vs a bunch of AI... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I challenge you, and 3 of your friends, to come on to Alpha Squad's public Co-Op server and try and beat a "bunch" of our tangos.

We've got missions where 18-20 Co-Op players (we support up to 27 in Co-Op missions) will not make it out alive. (We run no respawns, no IFF, 60 minute timer)

Good teamwork and a lot of planning *might* see you through....

If we had 9 player Co-Op MP minimum, I'd be happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only tried an alpha mission once and it bored me.. so i didn't bother to try any other

and so do coop and SP missions in general... they are ok for a first run but after a while (secound try or so) they get too easy no matter what level. Example: Last mission on IT took me a couple of minutes. and i only played as Ramirez (wounded) http://home.no.net/oseidar/replay/c08.rar (link to replay)

if/when I buy GRAW it's only for MP.. most SP and coop games bore me....

[capteenix]

do you people have same feel about new games? they are graphical, but not wise with gameplay.
Graphics eats more space from the game, so its propably unable to put 9 own NPC teammates and Coop players... Look at old games, like ghost recon 1, its in first like tactical stealth, but then war comes and you get unexpected tanks arrived and such, more tense to the game, BUt now graphics are superb! and games are running with same SH*T of game, just cloning all the mission form 1, and this destroys posibilities as in republic commando etc. Well graphics kills games, and because of graphics none cares of AI and gameplay....

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by capteenix:
Well graphics kills games, and because of graphics none cares of AI and gameplay.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not true. It's up to the developer to add the gameplay. If people will put up with arcade then the devs will put it out. BF2 does very well and it's as arcade as you can get. From what I've been seeing, GRIN is listening and is working towards giving us the tactical that we want.

I'm part of a mod team that did a tactical mod for FarCry. There is less lag with our fixes than in the original game, and the tactical aspect is insane. It's possible to combine great graphics with great gameplay.

[SimDood]

Anyway, back to the discussion about Co-Op... it seems from the dev chat that MP Co-Op will support 8 players, but against a maximum of 16 A.I.... what's with that?

If that is the case, I would say that they have spent too much overhead on eye-candy and effects!

[BINJY123]

With only 4- player co-op we wouldn't be able to do the stuff in ghost recon and this game is supposed to be better than ghost recon, so i say they'll make it better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

[Tribal_Tactics]

In 101ST we run 6 man squads so we were very dissapointed to hear 4 man teams. Coop is where its at. It totally adds a huge layer to the game. But I suppose some people dont wanna use their brains at all, its easier to run around shooting from the hip like an extension of your man hood. If thats what you want out of GR all I can say is... why. Cant you go play CounterStrike or something.

[CDN_Angus]

And here we go again, someone not able to appreciate the different gametypes for what they can offer, and feeling as they have to insult those who do. A cyberego seems to be a beautifull thing for so many.

[ZaxisUG-com]

Last time I checked it was actually very fun to drop in on a random team deathmatch server togheter with a well trained tactical team that knows how to use their brains. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one.

-Briggs

[baff6]

I suspect the four man emphasis of co-op has more to do with the single player campaign than anything else.


For myself co-op is THE most important multiplayer mode. I hope there will be many co-op gametypes supported and very flexible server options, including player numbers, respawn counts and enemy numbers.

I'm not adverse to a bit of PVP, in fact I really enjoy it, but it isn't a "must buy" feature for me.
I buy games to play with my friends.

These friendships have not been formed out of loneliness over the internet on teamspeak. Being a hardcore gamer with ultimate online skills is not a pre-requisite to teaming up. Just bring the beer and we'll play a game we can all enjoy. The bigger the noob, the greater the challenge. It's as hard to play with an idiot as it is to play against a genius.

For PvP I really enjoy the objective based gameplay of H&D2. Even better, many of the campaign missions have been modded to co-op now and can be downloaded here
http://www.hidden-and-dangerous2.com/downloads/index.php?ordner_id=16

The Company behind H&D have a new cold war title coming up "Enemy in Sight" also provisionally due for release this easter. This will be the third generation of their tactical game and is top of my list. Unlike Tom Clancy games, my brand loyalty to Illusionsoft remains very strong.

Add my brand loyalty to latest version of Operation Flashpoint also cited for an easter release, and there is a lot of competition out there for my tactical co-op pounds.

[XyZspineZyX]

Only thing i can say is we play alot of Close Combat First To Fight and the Teams are limited there also to 4 players. In this game it was because the maps are pretty small but the game takes place in Lebanon and it is all urban type coop. I would personaly never want more than 4 players in that game because people just get in the way. IF this game will be anything like FTF which it looks alot like it in what i have seen, 4 people on co-op will be plenty. Also in FTF Fire Team Arena is limited to 8 players so dunno. IF you get a chance to check that game out and are looking for something to fill the void that game is worth the $29.99 i think it lists for now. There are not a lot of people that play it do to poor marketing. I think this game is what GR2 should have been and hope GR3 will some what be and looks to be.
http://www.firsttofight.com

http://www.soldierzofkaos.com always recruiting!

[PoW_LigHtsPeEd]

I know what you're saying Admin, but if you think in terms of Original GR with huge open maps, and bushland areas, and then add the complex mission being modded out there - you want to have more then 4 to work the areas.

GR was never intended to be just an urban CQC environment, it may be for the first installation of GRAW, but players are really looking for the original fields of combat too as in OGR.

Modders want at least 8 - 2 teams of 4, or 9 - 3 teams of 3 - up to 18 in fact.

[Prozac360]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Last time I checked it was actually very fun to drop in on a random team deathmatch server togheter with a well trained tactical team that knows how to use their brains. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our squad (=ACU= Advance Combat Unit)
Plays Americas Army this way.

Bassicly we just get called ghosters and hackers a lot.

If that doesnt explain us this should.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7860/acuwoot3hy.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acuwoot3hy.jpg)

We do about the same againt other clans too, were ruthless.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tribal_Tactics:
But I suppose some people dont wanna use their brains at all, its easier to run around shooting from the hip like an extension of your man hood. If thats what you want out of GR all I can say is... why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why is it that the coop guys think that playing against the stupid AI is more "tactical"? I can take 4 human players and guard a position just like the AI do and I guarantee you coop guys will lose every time. The AI stands still and shoots at you. The least bit of madskillz allows you (the human) to kill them (the computer).

AI doesn't think for themselves, they can't. A computer will only do what you tell it to do, whereas a human will do what it wants to do on a whim.

I appreciate coop but the next n00b that comes here talking smack better pony up their lame squad. You can post our team up anywhere, and we'll stay within 75 meters of where you post us up. And you'll die the death of the rag doll (that's where you get the stuffin's beat out of you). Anyone wanna explain why my squad can whoop the bejeezus out of some of the 80 enemy missions and not die, but lose half the team against an equal force of humans? I can tell you why, but I wanna hear it from the coop hero types. If any of you tactical-wizard-hotshot-badazzmofo's want some let me know, otherwise best to STFU. We can do it opposite too. We'll come looking for you, you can hole up.

But for god's sake stop trying to tell me that coop is more tactical/difficult. You're starting to sound like someone whose never played an FPS. And if any of you can compare GR in any form to CS, you really need to put the bong down. That's by far the most ignorant comment I've heard on these boards in a long time. And before you start spouting off about the 100+ tango missions, how realistic is that? A force of 9 spec ops guys going head on against 100 enemies? Uh huh. Anyone wanna buy some oceanfront property in Arizona? I got a bunch for sale cheap.

[NYR_32]

OMG'zors TvT suckzors!!!

LOL'z co-OP is 4 da' nOOb'zzzz!!!

. . .

Can people stop ragging on each other's preferences? If it wasn't for the coop communitty and the TvT communitty, GR would have lost popularity twice as fast as it did. Without one, the other suffers (game isn't played as much, problems aren't fixed, expansions aren't made etc.). Each game mode brings something to the table that the other doesn't, and some prefer one to the other. My preference is Coop, I love playing scripted missions, but I also get a kick out of playing against real people from time to time.

In the end its all fun, and it all keeps the GR communitty coming back for more.

[Delta_Hoot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tribal_Tactics:
But I suppose some people dont wanna use their brains at all, its easier to run around shooting from the hip like an extension of your man hood. If thats what you want out of GR all I can say is... why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why is it that the coop guys think that playing against the stupid AI is more "tactical"? I can take 4 human players and guard a position just like the AI do and I guarantee you coop guys will lose every time. The AI stands still and shoots at you. The least bit of madskillz allows you (the human) to kill them (the computer).

AI doesn't think for themselves, they can't. A computer will only do what you tell it to do, whereas a human will do what it wants to do on a whim.

I appreciate coop but the next n00b that comes here talking smack better pony up their lame squad. You can post our team up anywhere, and we'll stay within 75 meters of where you post us up. And you'll die the death of the rag doll (that's where you get the stuffin's beat out of you). Anyone wanna explain why my squad can whoop the bejeezus out of some of the 80 enemy missions and not die, but lose half the team against an equal force of humans? I can tell you why, but I wanna hear it from the coop hero types. If any of you tactical-wizard-hotshot-badazzmofo's want some let me know, otherwise best to STFU. We can do it opposite too. We'll come looking for you, you can hole up.

But for god's sake stop trying to tell me that coop is more tactical/difficult. You're starting to sound like someone whose never played an FPS. And if any of you can compare GR in any form to CS, you really need to put the bong down. That's by far the most ignorant comment I've heard on these boards in a long time. And before you start spouting off about the 100+ tango missions, how realistic is that? A force of 9 spec ops guys going head on against 100 enemies? Uh huh. Anyone wanna buy some oceanfront property in Arizona? I got a bunch for sale cheap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why is it that the coop guys think that playing against the stupid AI is more "tactical"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simply because it IS more tactical. In fact it's the only tactical mode besides SP. the AI isn't stupid in all missions, you're talking about the standard SP missions. What you TvT jarheads don't get is that killing the "n00b A.I" is just one of many other tasks that must be completed, and you don't need to kill everything all the time. Stealth, hostage rescue, sabotage and recon are a just a sample of many things to be done in a good CO-OP mission.

While in Clan TvT matches, your ONLY objective is to KILL the other players, you play for competition, or for Clan/community "status", it doesn't matter how you achieve that, as long as you kill the others as fast as you can(as if was hard to aim and shoot in GR, any idiot with the SA80 just need to point and shoot in full auto, the gun hads laser accuracy. That's why you clan nuts can't play without the SA80/OICW) That is as tactical as Counter Strike. Wins who knows the maps better, the spawn points and the game's limitations. CO-OP players play for the Military Simulation aspects of GR, we don't care about virtual medals (most of us already got real life medals). You can play your Rats in a Maze type of game all you want, just don't tell me s*hit about you being tactical, you're a bunch of classical run and gunners. I don't even know why people like you even bothered with Ghost Recon, because Counter Stike had evereything your people worship the most.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

I'll preface my response by saying that I enjoy playing coop mode and the more difficult missions. That being said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Delta_Hoot:
Simply because it IS more tactical. In fact it's the only tactical mode besides SP. the AI isn't stupid in all missions, you're talking about the standard SP missions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are you trying to BS? The AI is only as smart as they were programmed. AI set on the highest skill setting still stands up and shoots at you. It doesn't duck behind cover. Hoot, you seem to know squat about programming. The computer program (whether it be AI or something like Photoshop) will only do what it is told to do. That means that the highest skill level AI in the s/p missions act exactly the same as those in any of your vaunted coop missions. Unless you're trying to tell me that these coop mission makers have hacked the code and modified yours and my game................................


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Stealth, hostage rescue, sabotage and recon are a just a sample of many things to be done in a good CO-OP mission. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, those are definitely part of what coop is about. Try Hostage rescue against human opponents. Or is that not tactical?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">While in Clan TvT matches, your ONLY objective is to KILL the other players, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have you ever played TvT? Hamburger Hill is about attacking and holding a fortified position. Then theres another mode where you capture flags and hold their position, there's 5 of them. Then there's a hostage rescue mode, where you get the hostages to the extraction point. Sounds to me like you haven't played enough against humans to know WTF you're talking about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> any idiot with the SA80 just need to point and shoot in full auto, the gun hads laser accuracy. That's why you clan nuts can't play without the SA80/OICW) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I love that you brought this up. This shows that you are absolutely clueless about those two weapons. The SA80 has faster rets, but it's not any more accurate than the AK47, or the M4. The OICW gun has slower rets than those three guns. I have an anticheat mod that fires green tracers for each round fired (only works in s/p and replays) and I know exactly how every gun in the arsenal patterns. And Hoot, as usual you're wrong. Your prejudice shows thru like the sun thru the fog.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> CO-OP players play for the Military Simulation aspects of GR, we don't care about virtual medals(most of us already got real life medals). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you're re-living your "glory" days? I used to make a living with my madskillz and a real gun. Every FPS I ever played wasn't even close to that. So don't give me that BS about tactics and so forth. One of ours is a Ranger and he said that AA is as close as it gets and it's so far off it's not funny.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> just don't tell me s*hit about you being tactical, you're a bunch of classical run and gunners. I don't even know why people like you even bothered with Ghost Recon, because Counter Stike had evereything your people worship the most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again Hoot, you're a n00b. Coop is a blast, I'm not doubting that. It's just not difficult. I play all types of GR, every gametype. You don't. You're just spewing off every type of typical comment regarding TvT that the n00bs spew.

As I said above, have one of your boys make a mission with an objective. Be it recon, demolition or whatever. Bring as many of your boys as you like and with 4 of my squad we'll stop you. We'll patrol like the enemy, and let's see if you can sneak by us. In fact, just as a test we won't even fire our guns. You can join our Ventrilo comms and we'll just patrol. Let's see how good you are against another human.

Seems to me that you with all your real life medals wouldn't be scared of other humans in a computer game. Put up or shut up.

[Midians]

Hello Everyone,
Not meaning to beat a dead horse but getting back to the core issue of this thread, I too agree that restricting Co-Op to only 4 players is pretty lame. I have a home network where I have a team come over and play; more specifically we get together for co-op gaming and only Ghost Recon has given us this type of play-style. To be quite honest, I have a feeling that UBI must be considering this specific topic and I also have a feeling that if the release date is pushed back, I'll bet that it'll have to do with advancing the ability to have more players and/or further develope the Co-Op experience. Anyone who's been in a combat outfit will know that a 4 man team in an urban combat setting is totally unrealistic; however only time will tell; the only other aspect that I can think of that would restrict this area of game play would be the actual game engine that's being used. Let's hope this isn't the case.
Once my fellow GR CO-OP players saw a PC instalment coming we started keeping an eye on the home page; however (as stated before) there are several vague statements made about the CO-OP experience. Let's hope that the vague statements made are because the developers are hammering out the wrinkles. Let's also hope that someone from the build-team will come into this thread and clarify our questions & comments.

[K0LDING]

Well put Midians! Nice to see someone get back to the topic. Preferences are preferences. However, there seems to be some of us who would need &gt;=8 player coop in a tactical shooter.

It would be nice if UBI could at least make a statement?

[SpecOps.Briggs]

It'd be nice if UBI said anything huh.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
It'd be nice if UBI said anything huh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've gotten used to the deafening silence.

[WhiteKnight77]

I have said it before, GRAW will not have more than 4 for Coop. We can only hope that Ubi sorts everything out for GR4 lest they kill the series by losing the rest of the fanbase.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

One step at a time. I'll believe there's gonna be a GR3 (GRAW) when I'm able to play the demo then purchase the product.

[HyenaX05]

You got to be kidding me....lets hope for gr4....lets see how this one does, couse 4 men coop..that kills quite a bit of comunity right there...At this point they must make an awesome game to get the people to stick around for this one couse if they fail ..they are done this time!!

[Cadmium77]

Really it looks like a cool game in many ways, but when you look at some of the drawbacks you have to ask yourself whether it's worth the extra money or whether you should just play Battlefield 2..

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

BF2 got old after 3 weeks. It blows and it's wayyyyy too arcade.

[gosscom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tribal_Tactics:
But I suppose some people dont wanna use their brains at all, its easier to run around shooting from the hip like an extension of your man hood. If thats what you want out of GR all I can say is... why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why is it that the coop guys think that playing against the stupid AI is more "tactical"? I can take 4 human players and guard a position just like the AI do and I guarantee you coop guys will lose every time. The AI stands still and shoots at you. The least bit of madskillz allows you (the human) to kill them (the computer).

AI doesn't think for themselves, they can't. A computer will only do what you tell it to do, whereas a human will do what it wants to do on a whim.

I appreciate coop but the next n00b that comes here talking smack better pony up their lame squad. You can post our team up anywhere, and we'll stay within 75 meters of where you post us up. And you'll die the death of the rag doll (that's where you get the stuffin's beat out of you). Anyone wanna explain why my squad can whoop the bejeezus out of some of the 80 enemy missions and not die, but lose half the team against an equal force of humans? I can tell you why, but I wanna hear it from the coop hero types. If any of you tactical-wizard-hotshot-badazzmofo's want some let me know, otherwise best to STFU. We can do it opposite too. We'll come looking for you, you can hole up.

But for god's sake stop trying to tell me that coop is more tactical/difficult. You're starting to sound like someone whose never played an FPS. And if any of you can compare GR in any form to CS, you really need to put the bong down. That's by far the most ignorant comment I've heard on these boards in a long time. And before you start spouting off about the 100+ tango missions, how realistic is that? A force of 9 spec ops guys going head on against 100 enemies? Uh huh. Anyone wanna buy some oceanfront property in Arizona? I got a bunch for sale cheap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mweh heh heh... too funny too funny!

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[capteenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif soon they will use Wallhacks right?

[baff6]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gosscom:
Why is it that the coop guys think that playing against the stupid AI is more "tactical"? I can take 4 human players and guard a position just like the AI do and I guarantee you coop guys will lose every time. The AI stands still and shoots at you. The least bit of madskillz allows you (the human) to kill them (the computer). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because we are intrested in tactical simulations.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">
When I wish to simulate the tactics required to assault an enemy base, it would help if the unalerted enemy guard in the watchtower.......</span><span class="ev_code_PURPLE">
is actually in the watchtower and not screaming full speed towards my spawn point with a grenade launcher.</span>

The tactics of multiplayer deathmatch are not very engrossing. We all know how to play it, and we understand that human controlled enemies are harder to defeat. They do however
limit the number of tactical situations you can enact.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">AI doesn't think for themselves, they can't. A computer will only do what you tell it to do, whereas a human will do what it wants to do on a whim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And there you have the beauty of it. Actors who although hams, never miss their lines, are always at the stage on time, and are willing to recreate the same scene over and over again without ad-libbing, without whimsy and without smacktalk.

To organise the kind of tactical scenario's provided to us in SP or Co-op with other players just isn't going to happen. 100's of enemies aren't all going to log in only to wait for the first airtstrike to their caffeteria before responding. It doesn't work, real people are very limited, they just won't do it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And before you start spouting off about the 100+ tango missions, how realistic is that? A force of 9 spec ops guys going head on against 100 enemies? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is realistic. The Special Operations Executive was designed for operating behind enemies lines. There could happily be a lot more than 100 enemies(*).

The problem with having a 100 enemies on the same small map is simply one of poor level/mission design.

You don't have to kill them all. (I know we all like to).
The "Ghost" in Ghost Recon refers to the stealth aspect.



(*)Further to this they shouldn't be fighting elite (pvp bastard)troops but ill equiped and unready supply and garrision troops.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by baff6:
Because we are intrested in tactical simulations.
When I wish to simulate the tactics required to assault an enemy base, it would help if the unalerted enemy guard in the watchtower.......
is actually in the watchtower and not screaming full speed towards my spawn point with a grenade launcher. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take me up on my offer. We won't leave the spawn area. We won't take G/L's either. I owned with hand frags. I won't take those if it makes you guys feel better.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And there you have the beauty of it. Actors who although hams, never miss their lines, are always at the stage on time, and are willing to recreate the same scene over and over again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actors who are willing to stand there under fire, never take cover and while recreating the same scene over and over again never actually putting anything close to random into the experience.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">without ad-libbing, without whimsy and without smacktalk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There you go putting all of us who play against other people in the same box. I don't call all coop players n00bs even though you're coming off that way with your comments. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To organise the kind of tactical scenario's provided to us in SP or Co-op with other players just isn't going to happen. 100's of enemies aren't all going to log in only to wait for the first airtstrike to their caffeteria before responding. It doesn't work, real people are very limited, they just won't do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I see your point. You much prefer an enemy standing there stupid and dumb, not scanning for tangos and shooting back.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is realistic. The Special Operations Executive was designed for operating behind enemies lines. There could happily be a lot more than 100 enemies(*). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
One of mine is a Ranger. He laughed at that comment.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(*)Further to this they shouldn't be fighting elite (pvp bastard)troops but ill equiped and unready supply and garrision troops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most recently the Republican Guard in Iraq were counted as some of the most well trained troops of any modern army. And there were thousands and thousands of them. I see that you're more interested in shooting guys who can't shoot back accurately and don't take cover. You can have these types of missions. The AI in FarCry acted more like real people than in any other FPS I've played. Some sprayed and prayed, and some were better shots than others. They also had squad leaders that organized them to flank you and you couldn't sit still in your position very long, or you'd get a frag on your position.

You'd do poorly against the FarCry AI. If GRIN fixes the stupid AI from GR or even GR2, you're gonna have a difficult time with them. Even so, you tactical guys can't take on a team of humans of even numbers. Tell me what you'd like us to do, we'll sit still in the area you'd like us to be in. We won't run, won't use G/L's and we'll guard our position.

[FWEF-Cull]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And before you start spouting off about the 100+ tango missions, how realistic is that? A force of 9 spec ops guys going head on against 100 enemies? Uh huh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Try this for size...follow the link below and read on.
The battle of Mirbat, 1972 (http://www.alliedspecialforces.org/thesoldiersof22sasmemorial.htm)
BTW...I don't think it mentions it but there were only 10 SAS soldiers plus some local militia.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FWEF-Cull:
BTW...I don't think it mentions it but there were only 10 SAS soldiers plus some local militia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was a battle of circumstance. A commander doesn't insert a force of 10 against a huge number and face them off on purpose. Take a look at Somalia and the Rangers. Do you think that the operation to snatch some of Aidid's head people was intended for the Rangers to take on the whole city?

The fact is that for every well known circumstance like your link, there are 50 other not so well known missions that Spec Ops guys have completed. It's the ones where large loss of life has occurred that are well known.

Continued posting of irregular circumstances does nothing but amplify the fact that small Spec Op's squad aren't supposed to engage a Brigade.........................

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[WhiteKnight77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
Spec Ops were used a lot to gather intel. Most of them (And I mean a lot of them) had beards and long hair because they were aloud to (A rough opposite of most close cut soldiers they weren't as suspicious to the eye of the enemy, they also wore civilian clothes). But nothing was more pleasant then seeing Spec Ops people in the same city you were in because you knew it was relatively safe. Especially if you were just involved in a ten day shootout. Also Rugg is correct when he says there are many missions that Spec Ops have done that the media does not exploit. It was them who captured and interrogated the person who released the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein in his little trapdoor house. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be careful about stating what Spec Ops troops are doing around here as a real "ghost" lurks these forums and is currently an instructor at the Kennedy Special Forces school at Bragg. He can slam the door shut on what you think is going on. He is also known to frequent RSE headquarters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[AlphaDelta219]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
Spec Ops were used a lot to gather intel. Most of them (And I mean a lot of them) had beards and long hair because they were aloud to (A rough opposite of most close cut soldiers they weren't as suspicious to the eye of the enemy, they also wore civilian clothes). But nothing was more pleasant then seeing Spec Ops people in the same city you were in because you knew it was relatively safe. Especially if you were just involved in a ten day shootout. Also Rugg is correct when he says there are many missions that Spec Ops have done that the media does not exploit. It was them who captured and interrogated the person who released the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein in his little trapdoor house. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be careful about stating what Spec Ops troops are doing around here as a real "ghost" lurks these forums and is currently an instructor at the Kennedy Special Forces school at Bragg. He can slam the door shut on what you think is going on. He is also known to frequent RSE headquarters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hes over at these forums now? i thought he was only at the Ghostrecon.net forums, i forgot his name though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[CDN_Angus]

Hatchet.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

Reaper was AFK from our squad for a total of 2 1/2 years of the 5 we've been in existence. Two tours in Afghanistan and two in Iraq.

I have alot of buddies who I used to shoot competitively with who do that sort of thing for a living. I've even trained with some of them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[ZaxisUG-com]

Altthough this is discussion has gone offtopic, it's pretty interesting.
The thing I prefer about coop is the social part, people actually talk to each other instead of all the usual lamer b.s. Someone is cheating, someone is pwning all ya n00b***es and everybody runs off to the chokepoints...
How often do you see anyone actually do the stuff Ruggbutt's been talking about anyway? Maybe in clan matches if you're lucky.
Could have been fun playing against your clan, but I'm pretty sure that that attitude would have gotten on my nerves pretty fast. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And you're right about that ghosters/hackers thing, Prozac. My bad, I thought I was living in an ideal world again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NuiS4ncE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
It's tough work, I got my current job by saying I trained with the 101st airborne. The interview wasn't even over. One of the guys I work with was in JTF2 before coming to this job. He said that he mentioned being in JTF2 and the interview was over, they got his financial stuff sorted out and he was hired. Spec Ops training would be amazing to anyone trying to get into that kind of work in civie life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you or were you in the 101st airborne? Screaming Eagles? I'm a real warfreak (have to admit that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), especially WWII.

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[AlphaDelta219]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
I was, then transferred to the 75th Mountain. I also spent some time with 82nd. Scout/Snipers get moved around a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

75th mountain? care to explain what unit that is attached too?

[CDN_Angus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
I was, then transferred to the 75th Mountain. I also spent some time with 82nd. Scout/Snipers get moved around a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those are Army units, and you previously stated you had been in the Corps here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/9181032683/r/4201043683#4201043683) and here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/7551041983/r/7421080093#7421080093) . Am I missing something?

[AlphaDelta219]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CDN_Angus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
I was, then transferred to the 75th Mountain. I also spent some time with 82nd. Scout/Snipers get moved around a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those are Army units, and you previously stated you had been in the Corps here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/9181032683/r/4201043683#4201043683) and here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/7551041983/r/7421080093#7421080093) . Am I missing something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats what i was thinking

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

Our gubmint wanted to make sure you weren't part of that Canada invades the US kinda thing.

[NuiS4ncE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpecOps.Briggs:
Issues with my citizenship didn't fly with your government so I got left (Booted) on the sidelines of the fight for a bit (When I was with the Marines). After that I decided to join the Army (After living in a motel for a month), which was worse then the Marines (No action). By transfer I mean, "kicked out then sent in again". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I took the advanced marksmanship in infantry after basic with the Army. My time with the 75th and 82nd was good, but my time with the Marine Corps I consider better then my time with the Army. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This goes OT, but anyway...what rank were you or are you (still don't know if you are in the army now)?

[SpecOps.Briggs]

Edit.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

Don't assume that we don't know that the Canadians are all about converting Americans to toques and back bacon. We know what you're up to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RWG_Jackal]

Tim Hortons are Canadian Spy safe houses.

What else could they be? Cuzz no one down here eats the awefull Donuts they make.

[SpecOps.Briggs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RWG_Jackal:
Tim Hortons are Canadian Spy safe houses.

What else could they be? Cuzz no one down here eats the awefull Donuts they make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Americans love Tim Hortons coffee and don't even TRY to deny it. Every time I heard the words "Tim Hortons" in the US people were drooling over it. You guys just dont want anything good to be Canadian http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
Don't assume that we don't know that the Canadians are all about converting Americans to toques and back bacon. We know what you're up to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back bacon is delicious! And for your information the new style is the toque with the little brim on it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

We'll see how this all plays out in game fellers heh heh heh

[baff6]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by baff6:
Because we are intrested in tactical simulations.
When I wish to simulate the tactics required to assault an enemy base, it would help if the unalerted enemy guard in the watchtower.......
is actually in the watchtower and not screaming full speed towards my spawn point with a grenade launcher. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take me up on my offer. We won't leave the spawn area. We won't take G/L's either. I <span class="ev_code_red">owned</span> with hand frags. <span class="ev_code_red"> I won't take those if it makes you guys feel better.</span>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">
Sorry but I'm really not intrested in your offer.

That's not a fun gametype for you.

I don't mind the grenade launchers or handfrags, I too can use them both too, should I so desire I can spamrape pretty much any spawn on any map too.

Quake MP is everybit as "tactical" as GR multiplayer. Unreal 2003 is WAY more tactical then GR if we looking for MP tactics.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And there you have the beauty of it. Actors who although hams, never miss their lines, are always at the stage on time, and are willing to recreate the same scene over and over again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actors who are willing to stand there under fire, never take cover and while recreating the same scene over and over again never actually putting anything close to random into the experience.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">without ad-libbing, without whimsy and without smacktalk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There you go putting all of us who play against other people in the same box. I don't call all coop players [color:red]n00bs</span> <span class="ev_code_red">even though you're coming off that way with your comments. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif</span>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">
If the box fits, use it.
If you want to get into that box with all the other smack talkers, go ahead.
You talk smack</span> in your reply, why would it be any different after you had just killed me in game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To organise the kind of tactical scenario's provided to us in SP or Co-op with other players just isn't going to happen. 100's of enemies aren't all going to log in only to wait for the first airtstrike to their caffeteria before responding. It doesn't work, real people are very limited, they just won't do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I see your point. <span class="ev_code_red"> You much prefer an enemy standing there stupid and dumb, not scanning for tangos and shooting back.</span>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">
If the tactical scenario involves me attacking with suprise, then that's what I prefer.

Perhaps if you have been waiting on guard duty for 2 and a half years with no contacts with the last reported enemy sighting in the area 60 years ago, you wouldn't be scanning the area for tangoes too hard either.

Most people don't have the discipline not to look around and shoot back. AI's are way superior. When your clan have all done this for the first 2 hours, post here that you are ready.

</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is realistic. The Special Operations Executive was designed for operating behind enemies lines. There could happily be a lot more than 100 enemies(*). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
One of mine is a Ranger. He laughed at that comment.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(*)Further to this they shouldn't be fighting elite (pvp bastard)troops but ill equiped and unready supply and garrision troops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most recently the Republican Guard in Iraq were counted as some of the most well trained troops of any modern army. And there were thousands and thousands of them. I see that you're more interested in shooting guys who can't shoot back accurately and don't take cover. You can have these types of missions. The AI in FarCry acted more like real people than in any other FPS I've played. Some sprayed and prayed, and some were better shots than others. They also had squad leaders that organized them to flank you and you couldn't sit still in your position very long, or you'd get a frag on your position.

<span class="ev_code_red">You'd do poorly against the FarCry AI.</span> If GRIN fixes the stupid AI from GR or even GR2, <span class="ev_code_red">you're gonna have a difficult time with them[color]. Even so,[color:red] you tactical guys can't take on a team of humans of even numbers.</span> Tell me what you'd like us to do, we'll sit still in the area you'd like us to be in. We won't run, won't use G/L's and we'll guard our position. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">
I prefer to play with AI thank you all the same.
I've played Farcry and also more recently Fear. The Ai's in those games where very good I thought. Ghost Recons was notably good in it's day also.
I've also been to the top of every GR clan ladder. It wasn't hard, but after a while it became boring. Worse it attracted all the dregs of gaming.

What has the Republican Guard got to do with anything?
We starved them out of replacement parts for 10 years, then we bombed them from the air for 6 months and outmanouvered them with satelitte observation and then attacked them 6 to 1 when we charged their lines with newer better tanks and close airsupport in the combined army of almost 2 whole continents.
Their guns didn't even have the range to return fire.
Thats how a battle should be.

The last thing we want is for someone to shoot back.
If they are shooting back, maybe you have managed it wrong.</span>
When was the last time you saw a military go up against an equal force on equal footings?

This isn't realism or a tactical scenario, it's just a multiplayer invention.

[BSR_RuGGBuTT]

Yeah ok Baff. You want to smack talk squads who play against other people, but you are scared to step up to the plate. I'm not gonna waste my time w/an amatuer like yourself. It's obvious that you'd rather **** someone else for their gametype preference.

Like I said, I played coop when I was learning to play the game. All of the gametypes in GR are tactical. But you have almost no experience w/anything other than coop. Yet you make assumptions. The ignorant person will **** that which he has little knowledge of.