FI_FlimFlam
01-18-2006, 07:05 PM
After the first night of playing I have decided to post my impression of the game so far. Aside from the horrible decision regarding the lack of dedicated server which I have already discussed in other threads here are my other impressions of the game. I made a separate thread since I dind't want it to get lost in the stickied thread which is getting clogged up with alot of "it's not good" comments without anything to back them up. The game has it's good points and bad points. Right now if I had to make a decision based on the demo, I wouldn't purchase it and here is why.
First the visuals are pretty good. I cranked up everything and it's definitely not bad looking. The Terrorists definitely could look better but hey fit in with the style of the other character models of the game. A little less cartoony would have been my preference. The Rainbow models look quite good. Especially in multiplayer. I am so thankful that they took the time to act on the feed back from the community.
I love some of the environmental effects. Such as being able to shoot out the glass cars and how it shatters and then breaks. Nice touch RSE. The HDR works well if you have a card that can handle it. The weapon models are nicely rendered.
The new scope options are very nice. The red dot scope is nifty.
The new visual mode/motion sensing scanner or whatever is interesting. Unfortunately it was never really necessary to use it. Either I knew exactly where a terrorist was going to be or in Adver it was going too fast to use (more on that in a bit).
Movement Speed is a mixed bag. The walk when scoped seemed really nice. The walk when not scoped seemed a bit slow however. The run speed seems like you are Carl Lewis in the 100m Dash. I really think the run speed needs to be turned down a notch or 3. Also if you are really running, I think the weapon bob/swing should be much more accentuated. It's almost like you are moving at a really fast walk or light jog judging by the swing but are actually moving like a rocket. Also when you get injured it does not seem to affect your movement speed at all. This also contributes to the "arcade feel" of the game.
Not sure what to think about the accuracy of the weapons. The ability to run full tilt stop and shoot accurately in a spit second seems to be carried over from the console. I found very little bullet spread for movement (or reticule bloom) when you stop running and zoom/scope at the same time - you have insta-closed rets practically. They may have removed running while scoped, however, with the insta-ret closure while zoomed it's not that far off from it. Zoomed/scoped ret bonus that was in RvS seems present here as well. Headshots are very easy even without a scope.
Recoil seems very inconsequential. The weapon moves very slightly and you do not have to contol it. You can point the weapon at the wall, then lift the mouse off the desk and hold down the primary fire button and you will see what I mean. You no longer have to compensate at all for the recoil. You will have a nice tight grouping on the wall. Again adding to the "arcade feel" of the game.
Sounds. They seem decent to me. The footsteps weren't overpowering. What was completely obnoxious to me was the music in multiplayer. It was so completely overbearing and drowned out all other environmental sounds making it difficult if not impossible to listen for someone sneaking up on you. Addittionaly it was so loud that it also made listening to voice coms nearly impossible unless someone was screaming or had their mic output higher than normal. I ended up having to set the music volume to zero but had to shut down the server inorder to restart the game to kill the music even though it would change on the next map change - which it didn't.
AI. Team AI seems much improved they stack better, clear rooms better. But will still get caught staring at a tango occasionally and not react. Enemy AI in the demo is, to put it kindly, not that good. They do try to utilize cover but often will not get behind cover completely. Sometimes they will just sit there waiting for you to move up beside them and pull out your pistol to their noggin and pull the trigger. Still I would say they are better than RvS AI. If they get more difficult in later missions that will be a good thing.
Between round lobby. I have to say I hate this. It's clunky and you get so very little information about the previous round or how you performed. The chat feature just seems so very dated. Having to hit enter before typing your message is very annoying as well. Why not just have it operate like an IM client. And why are there 2 lobbies between rounds? This is bad design choice because of the continue button which I'll explain later.
Server browser - is one of the mose anemic I have ever seen. Very little information is available to the player the filters aren't much better. No friends or favorites that I found. The RvS one was much better at least with being able to get server details. Here's hoping for a join from ASE or Xfire ability.
In regards to single player, Kungfu_CIA said it best in that you are in a rat maze being funneled down the same path over and over with the AI in the exact same places every time. (COOP is the same - BTW). After playing the game through several times, with different weapons I'm bored already.
There is no specing you teammates after you die - this is true for both COOP and Adver as well. This was a bad decision on the dev's part IMO. It was probably a design hold over from the PS2 version to cut down on the network traffic from specing on someone. I could be wrong but it was not a smart thing to do for the PC version. After you die, if there is no respawn, you have to wait and look at nothing until the round is over. The longer the wait the more likely they will leave the server - that is besides just being annoying. Besides the console network bandwith consideration, I can see another potential reason they overlooked this. With respawn it isn't necessary to have a specatator mode. I think they probably anticipated everyone to use respawn.
COOP since it's eactly the same as the single player, is quess what, exactly the same except with different people. The AI is in the same place everytime. Due to the linear nature of sub-level/load-section/micro-level, you will quickly tire of crossing the same path over and over again. Anyone else here thought 2 minutes of loading time was wasted to move your team across 15 meters of courtyard to get to another - you guessed it again - load point. If coop is going to be plagued with this type of gameplay it is not going to take hold. Look at Close Combat:First to Fight. It was exactly the same style hold your hand linear gameplay. It grew stale very quickly.
The damage model on the coop, even on the "challenge" difficulty leaves alot to be desired. On one play with a teamate, I was shot no less than 5 times only to lose 2 bars of health. This only reinforces the "arcade feel" for me. Sometimes when shooting single shot, I would put upwards of 8 to 10 rounds in a terrorists before they would die. It was intersting to see how many shots to the torso a terrorist would take before going down after I started to notice this - especailly these ones in the demo that don't have body armor. You may be able to make 1 shot kills, however the damage you and the enemy can take has been dramatically increased. In adver it seems a bit better but you seem to be able to take a lot more damage than in previous installments of the Rainbow 6 series. You can make it out of 1 or 2 CQB encounters and still walk away even after being shot. You will also still be able to move at full speed and you rets do not seem to be affected either.
Adver has alot of features and I haven't explored them all. Definitely, it is much faster and easier to play than previous installments. You do not need to control you weapon as much as you did in RvS due to the lack of recoil. The running speed makes the game feel like SWAT4 on steriods but much easier. Those who played on the "high speed" SWAT4 servers will know what I mean. Not only the speed but the ret properties and the damage model and you start to see what I mean.
Respawn makes the game play much more arcade and fast paced. There is no incentive to play cautiously as a result. The ones who rush and are fastest on the zoom and trigger are the ones rewarded most. That is why I prefer no-respawn and how it forces the player to slow down and pick his spots for defense and assaulting. However the map is not as conducive for slower play as it is for rushing and moving around. It is a box with lots of openings to be flanked from the side or behind. That is why it is better to keep moving on it. Also the spawns seem to be very close and at the beginning of the map you can encounter someone in less than 4 seconds if they both go through the shower area. One match this became the de facto stand off at the beginning of every round.
Now lets get into the nuts and bolts of hosting. The server setup is about as lacking in capability as I dare I say the SWAT4 beta! Actually I think the S4 beta had more options that admins could control. There are no restriction kits - why? Also were are the round control timers. Such as time between rounds and start of the next? Unfortunately, in their wisdom RSE decided to MAKE the host actually click on the continue button after a round has ended before going to the pre-round lobby. Not only is this redundant (having 2 lobby sessions between rounds) but it forces the host to be infront of the computer all the time the server is up. You absolutely cannot make a dummy slot for hosting that doesn't play and leave the server up. Otherwise it will never rotate between rounds. Not a wise choice. I believe it is a direct hold over from the console code in that it mimics essentially the multiplayer interface where the host IS infront of the game all the time the server is running. Why they didn't take note of this I do not understand.
IMO this is a much of a console game on a PC. It's design and operation is prevalant throught out - from gameplay to the server setup and admin. A little has been changed, the graphics have been enhanced and are very nice when you turn up the options. However it just cannot escape it's original pedigree and the platform is was originally designed upon. I think if the game is modded it can have some potential if UBI and RSE open up thing for the community to tinker with however the OTB (Out of the Box) game is lacking that Rainbow Six feel.
First the visuals are pretty good. I cranked up everything and it's definitely not bad looking. The Terrorists definitely could look better but hey fit in with the style of the other character models of the game. A little less cartoony would have been my preference. The Rainbow models look quite good. Especially in multiplayer. I am so thankful that they took the time to act on the feed back from the community.
I love some of the environmental effects. Such as being able to shoot out the glass cars and how it shatters and then breaks. Nice touch RSE. The HDR works well if you have a card that can handle it. The weapon models are nicely rendered.
The new scope options are very nice. The red dot scope is nifty.
The new visual mode/motion sensing scanner or whatever is interesting. Unfortunately it was never really necessary to use it. Either I knew exactly where a terrorist was going to be or in Adver it was going too fast to use (more on that in a bit).
Movement Speed is a mixed bag. The walk when scoped seemed really nice. The walk when not scoped seemed a bit slow however. The run speed seems like you are Carl Lewis in the 100m Dash. I really think the run speed needs to be turned down a notch or 3. Also if you are really running, I think the weapon bob/swing should be much more accentuated. It's almost like you are moving at a really fast walk or light jog judging by the swing but are actually moving like a rocket. Also when you get injured it does not seem to affect your movement speed at all. This also contributes to the "arcade feel" of the game.
Not sure what to think about the accuracy of the weapons. The ability to run full tilt stop and shoot accurately in a spit second seems to be carried over from the console. I found very little bullet spread for movement (or reticule bloom) when you stop running and zoom/scope at the same time - you have insta-closed rets practically. They may have removed running while scoped, however, with the insta-ret closure while zoomed it's not that far off from it. Zoomed/scoped ret bonus that was in RvS seems present here as well. Headshots are very easy even without a scope.
Recoil seems very inconsequential. The weapon moves very slightly and you do not have to contol it. You can point the weapon at the wall, then lift the mouse off the desk and hold down the primary fire button and you will see what I mean. You no longer have to compensate at all for the recoil. You will have a nice tight grouping on the wall. Again adding to the "arcade feel" of the game.
Sounds. They seem decent to me. The footsteps weren't overpowering. What was completely obnoxious to me was the music in multiplayer. It was so completely overbearing and drowned out all other environmental sounds making it difficult if not impossible to listen for someone sneaking up on you. Addittionaly it was so loud that it also made listening to voice coms nearly impossible unless someone was screaming or had their mic output higher than normal. I ended up having to set the music volume to zero but had to shut down the server inorder to restart the game to kill the music even though it would change on the next map change - which it didn't.
AI. Team AI seems much improved they stack better, clear rooms better. But will still get caught staring at a tango occasionally and not react. Enemy AI in the demo is, to put it kindly, not that good. They do try to utilize cover but often will not get behind cover completely. Sometimes they will just sit there waiting for you to move up beside them and pull out your pistol to their noggin and pull the trigger. Still I would say they are better than RvS AI. If they get more difficult in later missions that will be a good thing.
Between round lobby. I have to say I hate this. It's clunky and you get so very little information about the previous round or how you performed. The chat feature just seems so very dated. Having to hit enter before typing your message is very annoying as well. Why not just have it operate like an IM client. And why are there 2 lobbies between rounds? This is bad design choice because of the continue button which I'll explain later.
Server browser - is one of the mose anemic I have ever seen. Very little information is available to the player the filters aren't much better. No friends or favorites that I found. The RvS one was much better at least with being able to get server details. Here's hoping for a join from ASE or Xfire ability.
In regards to single player, Kungfu_CIA said it best in that you are in a rat maze being funneled down the same path over and over with the AI in the exact same places every time. (COOP is the same - BTW). After playing the game through several times, with different weapons I'm bored already.
There is no specing you teammates after you die - this is true for both COOP and Adver as well. This was a bad decision on the dev's part IMO. It was probably a design hold over from the PS2 version to cut down on the network traffic from specing on someone. I could be wrong but it was not a smart thing to do for the PC version. After you die, if there is no respawn, you have to wait and look at nothing until the round is over. The longer the wait the more likely they will leave the server - that is besides just being annoying. Besides the console network bandwith consideration, I can see another potential reason they overlooked this. With respawn it isn't necessary to have a specatator mode. I think they probably anticipated everyone to use respawn.
COOP since it's eactly the same as the single player, is quess what, exactly the same except with different people. The AI is in the same place everytime. Due to the linear nature of sub-level/load-section/micro-level, you will quickly tire of crossing the same path over and over again. Anyone else here thought 2 minutes of loading time was wasted to move your team across 15 meters of courtyard to get to another - you guessed it again - load point. If coop is going to be plagued with this type of gameplay it is not going to take hold. Look at Close Combat:First to Fight. It was exactly the same style hold your hand linear gameplay. It grew stale very quickly.
The damage model on the coop, even on the "challenge" difficulty leaves alot to be desired. On one play with a teamate, I was shot no less than 5 times only to lose 2 bars of health. This only reinforces the "arcade feel" for me. Sometimes when shooting single shot, I would put upwards of 8 to 10 rounds in a terrorists before they would die. It was intersting to see how many shots to the torso a terrorist would take before going down after I started to notice this - especailly these ones in the demo that don't have body armor. You may be able to make 1 shot kills, however the damage you and the enemy can take has been dramatically increased. In adver it seems a bit better but you seem to be able to take a lot more damage than in previous installments of the Rainbow 6 series. You can make it out of 1 or 2 CQB encounters and still walk away even after being shot. You will also still be able to move at full speed and you rets do not seem to be affected either.
Adver has alot of features and I haven't explored them all. Definitely, it is much faster and easier to play than previous installments. You do not need to control you weapon as much as you did in RvS due to the lack of recoil. The running speed makes the game feel like SWAT4 on steriods but much easier. Those who played on the "high speed" SWAT4 servers will know what I mean. Not only the speed but the ret properties and the damage model and you start to see what I mean.
Respawn makes the game play much more arcade and fast paced. There is no incentive to play cautiously as a result. The ones who rush and are fastest on the zoom and trigger are the ones rewarded most. That is why I prefer no-respawn and how it forces the player to slow down and pick his spots for defense and assaulting. However the map is not as conducive for slower play as it is for rushing and moving around. It is a box with lots of openings to be flanked from the side or behind. That is why it is better to keep moving on it. Also the spawns seem to be very close and at the beginning of the map you can encounter someone in less than 4 seconds if they both go through the shower area. One match this became the de facto stand off at the beginning of every round.
Now lets get into the nuts and bolts of hosting. The server setup is about as lacking in capability as I dare I say the SWAT4 beta! Actually I think the S4 beta had more options that admins could control. There are no restriction kits - why? Also were are the round control timers. Such as time between rounds and start of the next? Unfortunately, in their wisdom RSE decided to MAKE the host actually click on the continue button after a round has ended before going to the pre-round lobby. Not only is this redundant (having 2 lobby sessions between rounds) but it forces the host to be infront of the computer all the time the server is up. You absolutely cannot make a dummy slot for hosting that doesn't play and leave the server up. Otherwise it will never rotate between rounds. Not a wise choice. I believe it is a direct hold over from the console code in that it mimics essentially the multiplayer interface where the host IS infront of the game all the time the server is running. Why they didn't take note of this I do not understand.
IMO this is a much of a console game on a PC. It's design and operation is prevalant throught out - from gameplay to the server setup and admin. A little has been changed, the graphics have been enhanced and are very nice when you turn up the options. However it just cannot escape it's original pedigree and the platform is was originally designed upon. I think if the game is modded it can have some potential if UBI and RSE open up thing for the community to tinker with however the OTB (Out of the Box) game is lacking that Rainbow Six feel.