My Idea for a Vesus Mode

[generic.sheep]

Since there has been no real solid info released on the versus mode in Conviction, except the fact that it involves the crowd mechanics, it has lead me to believe that the versus mode will be much like a competitive singleplayer mode. The use of the crowd mechanics means that the new versus will be nothing like the old versus.

My idea for a versus mode would be a spy vs. spy match. This match would run on the same singleplayer engine, using the same controls, unlike how all the other versus modes have been handled thus far. At the beginning of the match, each player must pick a spy, by customizing their appearance. The players must make their spy look like a normal citizen NPC who normally wanders around the singleplayer levels. Then, the players would pick a map (for example, let's say they picked the Washington map from the Ubi trailer). The spies are then spawned in the map, preferably on opposite ends of the map. They must then accomplish some sort of goal, such as stealing an object, protecting an object, or killing the other spy. This could potentially be an entertaining task, considering how the Convictions engine is looking. However, since neither spy knows how the other spy looks, they do not know who they are looking for. The players must try to look non suspicious, and at the same time, keep an eye out for anything suspicious. The players would also then have the choice to play aggressively, and rush the objective, but then their identity would be easily noticeable, and the other team could try to "neutralize" the aggressive spy. This spy vs spy mode could also be played with teams, of three or four players. I believe it would be awesome to swim throw a crowd of NPCs trying to act normal, and then suddenly run, or fight when you notice a suspicious person following you. The only problem I see, is that I'm not sure how the combat system works, so I don't know if it would work as PvP combat system. Also, each map could have certain "distractions", as said in the gameplay feed. A spy perhaps could turn off all the lights in an area, or cause an entire crowd to panic and run away, which could cause enough chaos to insure a spy's clean escape.

Also, there could be a spy vs merc mode. The spies would be like spies from the spy vs spy mode (dressed nonsuspciously) but the mercs would be dressed in the easily identifiable police suits. The spies would have to complete an objective, while the mercs would have to guard it. The mercs would naturally be armed with some sort of gun, and would be trained in the same CQC as the spies. I can see some potential problems in this mode though. I don't see what would prevent a merc from gunning down every innocent NPC, in hope of finding a spy. There must be some sort of punishment for a merc killing an innocent civilian, such as them being removed from the match (not like kicked from the match, but more like sent to spectate, like if you died in game). Also, I don't see what would stop a merc from camping the objective. There would either have to be more objectives than mercs, a moving objective, or some sort of punishment for camping. Either that, or the objective would have to be in an area where NPCs do normally enter, so if the spy stealthily entered, they could potentially not be noticed (like in the cafe in the Washington park).

Those are my ideas for potential PvP game modes in Conviction. I am looking forward to this game, and believe it is a great change of pace and style for the Splinter Cell Series.

-sheep-

[generic.sheep]

Since there has been no real solid info released on the versus mode in Conviction, except the fact that it involves the crowd mechanics, it has lead me to believe that the versus mode will be much like a competitive singleplayer mode. The use of the crowd mechanics means that the new versus will be nothing like the old versus.

My idea for a versus mode would be a spy vs. spy match. This match would run on the same singleplayer engine, using the same controls, unlike how all the other versus modes have been handled thus far. At the beginning of the match, each player must pick a spy, by customizing their appearance. The players must make their spy look like a normal citizen NPC who normally wanders around the singleplayer levels. Then, the players would pick a map (for example, let's say they picked the Washington map from the Ubi trailer). The spies are then spawned in the map, preferably on opposite ends of the map. They must then accomplish some sort of goal, such as stealing an object, protecting an object, or killing the other spy. This could potentially be an entertaining task, considering how the Convictions engine is looking. However, since neither spy knows how the other spy looks, they do not know who they are looking for. The players must try to look non suspicious, and at the same time, keep an eye out for anything suspicious. The players would also then have the choice to play aggressively, and rush the objective, but then their identity would be easily noticeable, and the other team could try to "neutralize" the aggressive spy. This spy vs spy mode could also be played with teams, of three or four players. I believe it would be awesome to swim throw a crowd of NPCs trying to act normal, and then suddenly run, or fight when you notice a suspicious person following you. The only problem I see, is that I'm not sure how the combat system works, so I don't know if it would work as PvP combat system. Also, each map could have certain "distractions", as said in the gameplay feed. A spy perhaps could turn off all the lights in an area, or cause an entire crowd to panic and run away, which could cause enough chaos to insure a spy's clean escape.

Also, there could be a spy vs merc mode. The spies would be like spies from the spy vs spy mode (dressed nonsuspciously) but the mercs would be dressed in the easily identifiable police suits. The spies would have to complete an objective, while the mercs would have to guard it. The mercs would naturally be armed with some sort of gun, and would be trained in the same CQC as the spies. I can see some potential problems in this mode though. I don't see what would prevent a merc from gunning down every innocent NPC, in hope of finding a spy. There must be some sort of punishment for a merc killing an innocent civilian, such as them being removed from the match (not like kicked from the match, but more like sent to spectate, like if you died in game). Also, I don't see what would stop a merc from camping the objective. There would either have to be more objectives than mercs, a moving objective, or some sort of punishment for camping. Either that, or the objective would have to be in an area where NPCs do normally enter, so if the spy stealthily entered, they could potentially not be noticed (like in the cafe in the Washington park).

Those are my ideas for potential PvP game modes in Conviction. I am looking forward to this game, and believe it is a great change of pace and style for the Splinter Cell Series.

-sheep-

[FSA_shadow]

You know... that sounds quite good the spy vs spy mode sounds quite fun... would be fun causeing a huge panic and then using that panic to your advantage to get away with whatever you have and i agree... the spy vs merc mode would have to have something done with it... because i dont think the fighting would work right with the spy vs merc mode... but we'll see what Ubi does with this... looking forward to this game cant wait for it!

[braiog]

Do you know how hectic it would be as a Merc in a crowd of people. All the spy would have to do is cause every to freak, they all start darting every which direction, and then the spies move in for an easy kill on the Mercs, who see nothing but a multitude of people running around.

I don't know how MP's gonna work, but it's clear as it stands today that it's not VERSUS mode. They need to come up with a new name for it.

[FSA_shadow]

well yeah... it would be pretty hard for the merc but then again if they're "police" there should be something they could do to calm the crowd of people down?... but then again the spies could just do another riot... i dont know how mp is gonna work but i hope its something fresh and new... anything has to be better then double agents MP lol

[Doogsy1]

What if there was only one possible big distraction that the spies could cause. Imagine a spy placing a mine or a charge on a hotdog stand and the cop seeing him, and shooting the propane tank. Sounds like fun. I just hope they make it playable in split-screen (even though it would prety much completely take away from the stealth element) for those of us who don't have broadband... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[sl0ppy_sec0nds]

For one, I have no idea how anyone is going to distinguish AI from actual player. I see multi-player becoming a chain reaction. For example, one of your teammates gets attacked by the opposite side, you will be tempted to help your teammate in distress. As a result, others will follow suit, and as I've said it before, it is just going to turn into a slug fest. Alas, there will be immature kids who will likely ruin a game by running around throwing stuff at people and just causing mayhem.

With that said, it is going to be a wreck and would lack the players who'd actually play multi-player accordingly to Ubisoft's expectations.

[generic.sheep]

Good point Braiog. I forgot to factor in the "stupid little kid" demographic of gaming. : D

[Blind_Peanut]

Sounds pretty good...also seems very likely that some kind of MP mode like this would be implemented..it would be a waste to have that fancy physics system only for Single Player...then again who knows.

[ShutDown69]

Most people think that this will be stupid. I think it will be more challenging. You could def. still do Merc. Vs. Spy.

Say the Spy has to steal something in the Mercs headquarters. The Mercs can either go out and look for him or gaurd the place. They should have atleast 20 different ways to infiltrate the Mercs base. If it was 2 vs. 2 one spy could act as a distraction, or as one who makes chaos, as in turns off lights/power, ect. Then the other spy could make his move in the crowd and then infiltrate the base. One thing, the Mercs HAVE to turn the power back on or whatever.

Also, if the Mercs are out and about turning the lights on, the spy can come in, baracade the door and just like CT, neutralize a computer or hack something and the other spy can hide and crack necks. This way everyone gets what they want.

Tell me what you think.

[braiog]

Multiplayer often is the aspect of a game that gives it it's staying power.

PT introduced SvM. It was highly addictive, however it was specialized to a certain type of player. The "common gamer" found it to not be their cup of tea.

CT extended PT's SvM, refining it a LITTLE, but keeping true to the core gameplay of SvM. It's doing as well, if not better than PT was. This could be seen as a successful predecessor.

CT also introduced COOP mode, which failed miserably usually due to horrible performance, bad netcode, and a lack of Ubi involvement post-sale. It had potential, but as with many things Ubi tries, they don't see things through to completion, and it falls by the wayside.

DA deviated from the PT/CT style SvM, maintaining at least the concept, but "generalizing" it too much which displeased vets, and was done in an attempt to garner a larger community if it appealed to "common gamers" Due again to bugs, bad netcode and the fact they deviated from the PT/CT game style too much, this mode failed with both vets and newcomers.

DA also had no inclusion of COOP.

Conviction is again deviating from PT/CT (however they are wrongly calling their mode "Versus". DA was more of a "Versus" than Conviction seems to be. If they want to develop this crowd system in MP, fine - but make it a COOP deal. 2 Spies working together in a crowd against bots or other humans. But KEEP (aka "Bring Back") the TRUE versus that vets have craved since after CT.

CT's a HORRIBLE engine with bad hit detection and a lot of glitches. Versus deserves the respect and attention of Ubi, and if any studio should create it, it should be Montreal. I was eager to see what Montreal could do with Versus... but it looks like we're not getting VS in Conviction.

[ShutDown69]

All hope is not yet lost.

[braiog]

Seeing as how the game is slated for 12/07, and after Ubi's 1-3 delays, it could be around 06/08 before it comes out, that's MORE than ample time to INCLUDE a true Versus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Montreal's never had a whack at MP, no?

If anyone could bring out the best, it would be Montreal. That seems to be where the real talent under the Ubisoft name is.

[ShutDown69]

How about they just make a game just for Online.

would that make anyone happy? Montreal is doing all it can to make it's fans happy, that's why THEY are doing it instead of Shanghai.

If they just made a game for online, new maps, new graphics, new movements, no glitches and still old CT spy vs. merc gameplay. I would buy it and I think they'd make a fortune off of it.

[scworld]

Bertus means ProjectStealth (http://projectstealth.splintercellnetwork.com). Now clickable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[splinterouch]

yeh and i thought maybe if the mercs were police why not give them 3rd person veiw amd they could get points for arresting bad behaving npcs and killing spys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

[Shadowcancer55]

I'd actually really like if the had the old Spy vs Merc mechanics, but more objective or such.

Like say some upper high mob guy has "security"(aka mercs) and the spies are ordered to take him out, but this guy's at a parade, yea I know it sounds assassins creedish, but if they can pull it off the game might be somewhat fun.

Or like i've said in other post, spies trying to get to a point, get info, kill something, mercs are guarding this complex, and the spies have to reach this complex without looking suspicious/ really drawing attention towards themselves. They say they're using the same engine, so does this mean the spies can actually defend themselves for once? Or is this merely another perc for the mercs, I really don't know because THEY HAVEN'T RELEASED ANY INFO ON IT YET. I don't get it, you have this complete little 5 min vid of single player, yet you can't even give me a 30 sec preview of Multiplayer? Gimme a break, the main reason the franchise is still alive and you don't have anything on it?

[braiog]

ShutDown69-
You've confused me for a Console Gamer. I'm PC.

[psyichic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ShutDown69:
How about they just make a game just for Online.

would that make anyone happy? Montreal is doing all it can to make it's fans happy, that's why THEY are doing it instead of Shanghai.

If they just made a game for online, new maps, new graphics, new movements, no glitches and still old CT spy vs. merc gameplay. I would buy it and I think they'd make a fortune off of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vets suggested this a LONG time ago. People openly said "If they just separated SP and MP and made them completely different product I would gladly pay a full 50$ for MP if it was well done."

And on another note the whole crowd based stealth thing just isn't Splinter Cell again. Maybe if they bring back a good assortment of gadgets it would be worth my time. But chances are it is going to be some type of UFC fight system in a crowd with shoot-outs and running through crowds while escaping with something. Cinematic? Yes. SvM? No.

[splinterouch]

well i hate 1rst person veiw 3rd is best i dont knowwhy i just like it so plz ubisoft give mercs 3rd person veiw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[scworld]

So you can see the spy sneak up on you? Please use your brains...

[Cheeserdude]

I think your ideas are ok, sheep. the crowd would have to be suspicious of spies, though. I don't think spy vs. spy would work so well here. In spy vs. merc, the spy should have things on his agenda that could rouse the crowd. To cut to the chase, it has to be so the spy can be recognized without too much difficulty.

[Vth_F_Smith_]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by splinterouch:
yeh and i thought maybe if the mercs were police why not give them 3rd person veiw amd they could get points for arresting bad behaving npcs and killing spys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The fact that mercs have only first person view, is one of the things that made the gameplay unique! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[randolfphe]

you can introduce a new gameplay for mp: fugitives vs. police. the objective of the fugitives is to get from spawn to escape point. the objective of the police is to nab them before they do. naturally the police are easily distinguishable but outnumber the fugitives, and the police should not alarm the crowd either, so their weapons are always holstered. maybe give them a taser so they can subdue the criminal.

also, i can imagine a gameplay style adopted by fugitive players where 1 guy sacrifices himself by attracting the attention of the police. the smart police team will spread out and seek out individuals. escape points are random to avoid police camping.

or even better imho: assasin vs. fugitives. assasin look just like a civilian and must kill the fugitives by shanking.

[psyichic]

That begins to sound SOOOOO much like Assassin's Creed it's not funny.

[Stealth_chill]

screw all of that. Classic CT multiplayer FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[psyichic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cheeserdude:
I think your ideas are ok, sheep. the crowd would have to be suspicious of spies, though. I don't think spy vs. spy would work so well here. In spy vs. merc, the spy should have things on his agenda that could rouse the crowd. To cut to the chase, it has to be so the spy can be recognized without too much difficulty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im more worried that the spy will be too easily distinguishable. The way that a player moves in-game and the way an AI moves in-game can be very different. Things like at what angle you are walking at, if you make any slight changes in your direction like if you press one key or another, your pattern of walking, if you stop for a split second, etc. Could make a player distinguishable from the crowd.

Just remeber that AI guards and Human guards are different. An AI guard may only register if you are walking with the crowd or walking faster or slower. But a Human can probably see the difference between an AI's walking and a Human walking.

[DrCactus]

Can't agree with you more pyichic. Humans can pick up the craziest details that set apart the AI and Player. I'm really not sure how this crowd thing will work in multiplayer. As i said in the other MP thread, they have a lot of work to do in order to get it right.

I'm not liking these two threads buisness, i think we should merge it all into one thread. Atleast then i'm not constantly repeating myself.

[randolfphe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DrCactus:
Can't agree with you more pyichic. Humans can pick up the craziest details that set apart the AI and Player. I'm really not sure how this crowd thing will work in multiplayer. As i said in the other MP thread, they have a lot of work to do in order to get it right.

I'm not liking these two threads buisness, i think we should merge it all into one thread. Atleast then i'm not constantly repeating myself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

certain movement parameters for the players. make sure they don't spazz out when they walk so they don't look human. and of course you want some human traits. otherwise how are you going to arrest the ******---i mean player hehe.

[MentalMars]

If Ubi made a game based only on the Versus mode.
Give is support, updates, downloadble content.
SvM style like the old Pandora tomorrow & Chaos Theory.

I WOULD BUY IT !!!