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View Full Version : *Entire* Game Database Generator?



Divockreni
03-21-2004, 06:53 PM
I just thought of something and I wanna know if it's at all possible. Chessmaster.com has an EGDB for download that can make Chessmaster play perfectly when six pieces remain on the board (as if it's not perfect already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The screen might say, "Mate in 89" or something ridiculously cool like that. I generated a 5-piece database, and it took a few days straight to build. The 6-piece takes at least 1024 gygs to build and 1 YEAR on a 1.5 ghz comp (according to the readme).

If a six-piece database can be created, how about a 32-piece? It would have to calculate ALL the possible combinations of moves in the game of chess! Maybe I should e-mail someone from Chessmaster or the EGDB creator. The EGDB works by a scoring system and "distance to mate". The question is, would it be able to score moves from the beginning of the game, when each player is in equal position?

It sounds possible to me. I think it could score the moves the same way as before but based on a LOT more tests. There would be no distance to mate in the first move (unless chess is flawed...not possible!), but black would have to respond with certain moves else be checkmated (my guess is that for both white and black there would be more than one perfect move at times). God knows how long it would take and how much space it would require. Maybe if we teamed supercomputers (can we even do that?) to build it we could get it done in say, 10 years? Or do I underestimate chess and/or overestimate supercomputers? What would be hilarious is if a grandmaster were to play it and early in the game see, "Mate in 277".

Of course, this might not be necessary because the developers of Deep Blue might have found an easier means to perfection. Not that Deep Blue is perfect, but perhaps the process by which it calculates its moves can be improved a little bit until there is a perfect computer opponent. The problem is we wouldn't KNOW that it's 100% perfect, whereas with an *Entire* GDB we would because it uses "brute force" calculation--it's got every game in chess memorized.

Peace without wisdom is as fragile as comfort. Wisdom without peace is not wisdom.

Divockreni
03-21-2004, 06:53 PM
I just thought of something and I wanna know if it's at all possible. Chessmaster.com has an EGDB for download that can make Chessmaster play perfectly when six pieces remain on the board (as if it's not perfect already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The screen might say, "Mate in 89" or something ridiculously cool like that. I generated a 5-piece database, and it took a few days straight to build. The 6-piece takes at least 1024 gygs to build and 1 YEAR on a 1.5 ghz comp (according to the readme).

If a six-piece database can be created, how about a 32-piece? It would have to calculate ALL the possible combinations of moves in the game of chess! Maybe I should e-mail someone from Chessmaster or the EGDB creator. The EGDB works by a scoring system and "distance to mate". The question is, would it be able to score moves from the beginning of the game, when each player is in equal position?

It sounds possible to me. I think it could score the moves the same way as before but based on a LOT more tests. There would be no distance to mate in the first move (unless chess is flawed...not possible!), but black would have to respond with certain moves else be checkmated (my guess is that for both white and black there would be more than one perfect move at times). God knows how long it would take and how much space it would require. Maybe if we teamed supercomputers (can we even do that?) to build it we could get it done in say, 10 years? Or do I underestimate chess and/or overestimate supercomputers? What would be hilarious is if a grandmaster were to play it and early in the game see, "Mate in 277".

Of course, this might not be necessary because the developers of Deep Blue might have found an easier means to perfection. Not that Deep Blue is perfect, but perhaps the process by which it calculates its moves can be improved a little bit until there is a perfect computer opponent. The problem is we wouldn't KNOW that it's 100% perfect, whereas with an *Entire* GDB we would because it uses "brute force" calculation--it's got every game in chess memorized.

Peace without wisdom is as fragile as comfort. Wisdom without peace is not wisdom.

showercap
03-25-2004, 10:16 AM
if you really overestimate computer, you should know how to make a simple chess engine first, before asking the question.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Divockreni
03-26-2004, 10:12 AM
lol 10 years what was i thinking? But question: are today's supercomputers only that fast because we only need them to be that fast, or because that's as fast as we can make them? I mean, what if we made a computer the size of a building (sorta like the old days only a billion times better) with gold wires? Also, instead of water-cooling, we could cool it with like liquid nitrogen so that we could overclock it enormously. Heh i'm talking a lot of crap here. But chess is important enough for the attempt, don't ya think?

Then again, it's a puzzle that perhaps a team of mathematicians can solve...

showercap
03-30-2004, 07:56 PM
A computer, how fast and smart, and how big it is, its compute or "thinking" based on human logic. but sometimes, not all human logic can be concepted to a "program". if we have a picture of a woman for example, its very hard to make a program that can judge whether she is beautiful or not. Deep Blue and Deep Fritz still can be beaten because they dont have a perfect judgement about positions. because a perfect judgement still owned by man that cannot be concepted into code, only half of them (judgement) that they (deep blue/fritz) have. so if we talking about egdb generator that can "perfectly" judged the positions with few pieces, that "perfect" means by human knowledges. and now if we're talking about "Entire" game database... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif, who's knowledge that we're talking to???.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif