Puzzles vs. Exploration

[glenncraig]

Gee, I just found out about the cancellation of URU Live. Sorry about that, but I hadn't got that far yet.
Puzzles vs. Exploration in each of the titles, from MYST through URU, has been a topic I have been wondering about. Maybe that didn't come out right, but basically, I continue to think that many of the puzzles are excess, and I would gladly give up the number of puzzles to solve in order to get the "next" location to have more places to explore and find out information. For instance, the mechanisms of Teledahn were kind of a puzzle but involved exploration and actively finding solutions, like jumping into the bucket to ride up to the control room. The puzzles of Kadesh Tolesa, on the other hand, like the lights with the tiles in the big room are sort of gratuitous, in that it seems excessive, and made for those people who really like puzzles.
I really enjoy wandering and just seeing what there is to see, and I think that if there weren't so many puzzles there would be more to explore and see.
I thought MYST was beautiful, even though there were puzzles to be solved that defied logic, and each of the titles has been a wonderful experience. URU is a knockout ! ! When I started playing this one I had to keep from drooling on the keyboard it is so beautiful, and I just want more of it.
I guess this would be a sort of POLL, only the control button wouldn't work for me to get a POLL, so this is just a topic.

What do you think? More puzzles, or more exploring and more worlds and ages to find?

[glenncraig]

Gee, I just found out about the cancellation of URU Live. Sorry about that, but I hadn't got that far yet.
Puzzles vs. Exploration in each of the titles, from MYST through URU, has been a topic I have been wondering about. Maybe that didn't come out right, but basically, I continue to think that many of the puzzles are excess, and I would gladly give up the number of puzzles to solve in order to get the "next" location to have more places to explore and find out information. For instance, the mechanisms of Teledahn were kind of a puzzle but involved exploration and actively finding solutions, like jumping into the bucket to ride up to the control room. The puzzles of Kadesh Tolesa, on the other hand, like the lights with the tiles in the big room are sort of gratuitous, in that it seems excessive, and made for those people who really like puzzles.
I really enjoy wandering and just seeing what there is to see, and I think that if there weren't so many puzzles there would be more to explore and see.
I thought MYST was beautiful, even though there were puzzles to be solved that defied logic, and each of the titles has been a wonderful experience. URU is a knockout ! ! When I started playing this one I had to keep from drooling on the keyboard it is so beautiful, and I just want more of it.
I guess this would be a sort of POLL, only the control button wouldn't work for me to get a POLL, so this is just a topic.

What do you think? More puzzles, or more exploring and more worlds and ages to find?

[linkerjpatrick]

Yes.

Dr. Greer's Uru Journal (http://www.spinningsilk.com/DrGJournal/)

[sophieb]

preferably wearing a sombrero.

[glenncraig]

Let me guess that those responses just mean "More URU", with no real preference as to what kind of URU, except "Al Sol, Por Favor!"

If URU is to be continued with extensions to the basic Experience, I would hope for many more ages to find, rain or shine.

But if they are putting in these puzzles because they think that the majority of URU-players want and expect them, then I'm just putting in my opinion.

Maybe it would be possible to keep everybody happy by offering several ways to proceed. The puzzle solution, or the scenic tour that arrives at the same destination, but uses a different door to get there, and takes as long as you want it to.

[This message was edited by glenncraig on Thu February 05 2004 at 08:14 AM.]

[This message was edited by glenncraig on Thu February 05 2004 at 08:16 AM.]

[Che_lyne]

My vote goes to more exploration. I like the puzzles, but the scenery is the biggest interest for me. All of the Myst games are beautiful, and I enjoy the discovery aspect the best.

[GargishDragon]

For me its not a question of exploration or puzzles. Puzzles, done well provide means of exploration. Interesting places contain interesting objects to manipulate, each of them a small puzzle. Even if its just a light switch or a door. Exploring consists of getting over obstacles to find out new things. Of course the difficulty of the puzzles is debateable.

Bah'tahm

[ChaoticCoyote]

Give me beautiful, vast, complex Ages for exploration, with puzzles that make sense in the story line.

And NO jumping puzzles.

[glenncraig]

Yes, its like taking a vacation. Sometimes you need to feel more active, somtimes you just want to look at the scenery. But a puzzle that can only be solved by finding a walkthrough or asking questions (in a forum like this) is more than that.
There was one called "Obsidian" that I tried (Because there were no more Mysts at that time) and the puzzles never stopped ( ! ! ! ! ) so I never finished it.
These things wear me out.
But I love exploring, and just raving over the beautiful things and locations as I wander. The best problems are part of something you have to do, like finding a lightswitch, or turning on the power-plant, in order to proceed, because the bridge is now down, or the door is now open. If there were really difficult problems to solve that came with not a logical solution, but with some sort of code that you were supposed to decipher, I would want and expect the code-book ! ! !

[Truth-Soldier]

At least the puzzles gave you something to do in this game, other than that this is the most empty game I've ever seen, there's nothing here! How can you talk about going exploring when almost every place is blocked by invisible walls? If you think exploring means walking from one area to another then I guess you got your game because that's all there is here, you can't really explore anything, you're restricted in so many ways. now if you want to go exploring then pay a game like Morrowind, war Gothic2, in these games you have a free and open world and no invisible walls.

[ChaoticCoyote]

Everyone has a unique perspective. For some people, like my wife, the Myst games are a chance to "oooh" and "ahhh" over fantastic landscapes. For me, I enjoy the unravelling a story, of solving mind-bending puzzles. Other people want to practice their skills at jumping puzzles.

Perhaps a future Myst game could appeal to all three mentalities, with multiple solutions of difficulty levels. A problem could be solved by jumping or through solving some clever puzzle; a n "explorer" mode would eliminate many puzzles to allow "tourists" to explore the beauty of Cyan's worlds.


I prefer possibilities and flexibility.

[Naquiel]

Truth-soldger, you do know that the devs only opened up certain areas for testing live. So now when they give out the first free expantion pack we will be able to explore alot of areas we have been waiting to see. But there will still be some areas that will be blocked for future expantions.

So dont give up to soon.

[Siamooser]

Definitely more exploration and informtion gathering, and puzzles that make some sort of sense in a real world. Why have a whole room acting as a "door handle"? In Riven (if I recall correctly) we had the simple child's hangman game that taught us about the numbering system - now that's on the right scale. If it has to be big and impressive, then it could be machinery with a practical purpose. In Exile, when I got to the island with the balls running in tracks I felt like I was a bug in a pinball game, and just felt it didn't make much sense, so lost interest.

Siamooser

[Naquiel]

Siamooser, i thought the island with the roller coster ride was one of the best puzzles ever. But to let you know, exile was made by another team and not by cyan. But it was still good to me.

[maztec]

Except for the fact that killing things really isn't what I want to do in a game.

---
Have you had your D'LA today? (http://www.dniactivities.org/)
Katran KI#: 2831843
Atrus KI#: 4941719

[glenncraig]

I have been living in beautiful downtown Balmora for over a year now, and have both the Tribunal and Bloodmoon expansions, plus tons of Mods, and what I have made for myself (this is Morrowind-the Elder Scrolls, in case you are blanking-out as you read this). A great and beautiful game, but I could do without all of the monsters and hostility. One of the first mods I installed was one that got rid of ALL the Cliff-racers. What I used to really hate was just getting to like someplace when a Cliff-racer would start picking on me.
A great game, and not empty, but not quite the same thing as exploring the fantastic places in URU, only after awhile, almost everyplace in Morrowind starts looking the same somehow. Good features, like money, and buying objects, even the objects themselves, make it more interesting.
After I first played Myst, I tried Tomb Raider, and have done every title. The kind of explorations you can do in TR, are what I play for. Some of the scenes there are amazing ! To be able to move like Lara Croft would be a big plus in URU. Climbing up walls, etc. is so much more realistic than just walking or running along the flat parts. The endless shooting is a drag, though. Violence creates brutality and more violence, especially in kids.

OK, How about this: A world as big as Morrowind's Vvardenfel with the moves and abilities for exploration and problem-solving like Lara Croft, combined with the visual splendor and complex environments, linking, etc. of the Myst Legacy ?

[This message was edited by glenncraig on Fri February 06 2004 at 05:23 PM.]

[glenncraig]

(The forum only allows editing within 60 minutes of your post, otherwise I would have changed my last post!)

I just finished URU last night, and I have rain on Relto ! What I think now is that even though the access is limited to certain places on the various ages in URU, it is certainly the highest quality stuff. Morrowind may be vast and completely open, but this is quantity vs. quality.
URU is Art on a pedestal.
Even though you can't go everywhere, and there are invisible walls. And the puzzles don't make sense ( I hope everybody understands what I mean by that )!
Art is multi-dimensional, and in itself a kind of exploration that far exceeds wandering aimlessly over miles and miles of simulated terrain ! ! !
Now that everything is setup, I am scanning the horizon for the expansion pack ! !
It would still be nice to move like Lara Croft !

I know.
I use too many exclamation points ! ! ! !

[lucky13x]

I prefer more exlporation to puzzles.