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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 04:01 AM
I mean, come one, I miss the kick or chop on the throat when I sneak up to a guy and step on a piece of glass. Should a speical op man like Sam Fisher actually have some basic martial arts, like if a guy turns around couldn't you kick his gun, punch him in the chest then do what you want with him (kill or incapacitate). I think it would be somewhat useful.

What you guys think?

Ed

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 04:01 AM
I mean, come one, I miss the kick or chop on the throat when I sneak up to a guy and step on a piece of glass. Should a speical op man like Sam Fisher actually have some basic martial arts, like if a guy turns around couldn't you kick his gun, punch him in the chest then do what you want with him (kill or incapacitate). I think it would be somewhat useful.

What you guys think?

Ed

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 06:22 AM
You'd think that an ex Navy SEAL would be trained in some sort of unarmed hand to hand combat (meaning more than just the foreare smash).

That's one thing the next game should have.


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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 09:38 AM
I hope there will be some sort of combo in PT, i mean, how hard couldt it be, how many people doesn't know how to punch/kick more than one time at a person.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 11:31 AM
He should at least know some basic Judo, and since he is Sam I Am, he should have like really cool kung fu moves or something. It would be cool to incorporate a disarm move, so you can like he said, kick their gun and them punch them, or like sneak behing them and subdue them.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 12:02 PM
it would be a good skill to have for Sam in any case that he confronts face to face with an enemy.

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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 12:58 PM
I think punching and kicking alot is too unstealthy for a stealth mission. I think the elbow attack only the efficient way to knock somebody out. Another way is the two-handed hammerfist to the back. Aside from the back grab, Sam should also learn to chokehold until the enemy loses his breath. I think the "back grab then punch to the head" is too noisy" especially when the enemy falls down on the ground.

Sam should also learn weapon stealing/grabbing when closed to an enemy. This way Sam wont die while using his elbow when engaged by the enemy (lol). Sam also must have an expandable baton (used by law enforcment officers, bodyguards, etc) to disable weapons.( hit to the hand) This can be useful for knife attacks by the enemy (if there is a knife wielding enemy on the next game).

my two cents.



Message Edited on 11/13/0312:07PM by Veynn

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 06:21 AM
I like the comment about the loud knockout technique-I'm reminded of the Ministry of Defense's marble foyer just before the laser courtyard...the thud from the guy watching the computer when I knock him out literally resonates!

And since I didn't respond about enemies having knives in the other post, I'll say it here-it'd be cool, but when engaging, would the enemy really have time to drop his gun (would have to be on a sling), then grab his knife? A knife usually requires a little more premeditation. They should be able to whack you with their rifle if you're close though (make a dazed effect similar to getting punched in "Perfect Dark").

Back to the original topic-martial arts is good, and Sam should know some, but how cumbersome would the game be to have several of those moves available? Would they be automatic? Some are louder than others-at what point would he do what? It's probably a bit much for a game that is designed for you to attempt to AVOID any contact whatsoever...

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 07:53 AM
Enemies can use knives as secondary weapon. For example, Sam disarms the gun/rifle of the enemy, then they pullout their knives. This way, enemies will not be easy to kill or knocked out.

And for Sam, he must have a expandable baton in handy to neutralize/disarm knife attacks. Batons are the most efficient neutralizers for knife attacks anyway (aside from guns of course). Law enforcement officers and bodyguards use it for that purpose.

Punching and kicking are too flashy for a stealth mission. Most people would want to see those jumping, spinning head kicks and spinning backfists and matrix-like fight scenes (ughh!). As for grappling/groundfighting, I think its pretty useless, too noisy, and takes time.

I think the perfect martial art for Sam Fisher would be Kali. Law enforcment officers, special forces, navy seals, marines use this martial art because it is very deadly and effective. Try thinking of Jason Bourne or the guy in The Hunted.

My two cents.



Message Edited on 11/14/0307:03AM by Veynn

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 08:49 AM
Catalyst-XPD8 wrote:
- I mean, come one, I miss the kick or chop on the
- throat when I sneak up to a guy and step on a piece
- of glass. Should a speical op man like Sam Fisher
- actually have some basic martial arts, like if a guy
- turns around couldn't you kick his gun, punch him in
- the chest then do what you want with him (kill or
- incapacitate). I think it would be somewhat useful.
-
- What you guys think?
-
- Ed


I actually do think they should have it, but maybe Sam is getting too old..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 08:56 AM
Yeah, I think Sam is too old to do stuff like shooting upside down while hanging and doing wall jump backflip as seen in the movie trailer.

As for martial arts, he should only do simple but deadly techniques. No more spinning head kicks and kung-fu bullcr*p.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:16 PM
I think that the choke hold would be effective but i'm afraid it would be too noisy, there is a very small chance that the guy being choked would just stand still and let Sam finish his hold, after all, people do panic when they can't breeth.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:22 PM
then Sam should have that chemical they put in hankerchiefs to put people to sleep. whats that called again?

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:24 PM
The drug is called Anastethics or thats what it is called in Hitman 2.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:36 PM
Chlorophorm

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:44 PM
thats the one


=============

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:52 PM
A lethal poison to the neck is effective too using a syringe gun.

(idea taken from Commandos 2 - the one used by the spy)

==============

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 03:51 AM
Chloroform is unsafe by present-day standards. It is smelly and crude and old-fashioned. Nowadays, if we are looking for incapacitants which do not kill, then we have gases including isoflurane. We have succinylcholine (an injectable liquid) and etorphine (ditto).
Etorphine was discovered by the English. It is most feasome and dangerous, like morphine but much, much worse. A pinpick from a dart with etorphine would incapacitate an elephant, and an amount measured in micrograms will make you very suggestible, so that you will do as you are instructed to do. Etorphine is favored by itelligence organizations. It is addictive. It is synthetic. And, you have to know precisely what you are doing in order to make it.
Succinylcholine is a muscle relaxant. It is very hard to trace, but not impossible with a good lab. Until recently there were no tests for it, but then the Swedes found a test for it. They taught the best law enforment laboratories in certain countries how to do that test. Five milligrams will probably kill you. Seven will definitely kill you. Less than five will paralyze you within three seconds, so that for hours you will be only be able to breathe and move your eyes.
Isoflourane, and more advanced versions of anaesthetic gases, takes about five seconds to work. Isoflourane changes your pattern of breathing when you are unconscoius. Isoflourane would usually be considered too slow. Drugging people in combat is not reccomended, because it is not safe unless you know the target's weight. Doses must be precisely measured and planned in advance. This will only change if we have nanomachines to carry drugs directly to nerves and nowhere else, in precisely the right amount. In my stories, we have this by the 2070s. Not before.

If you want to *poison* someone, that is much "easier."
A dart or hypodermic needle will serve well. Potassium cyanide and strychnine are among the fastest. There are some other very powerful injectible poisons. But they are much rarer.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 03:52 AM
in an interview in OXM, they said that they were probably going to fix that problem

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 06:57 AM
Which problem, Halo? Lack of hand to hand combat, or unrealistically quite take downs?

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 12:24 PM
If they add spinning high kicks and fancy kung-fu sh*t in PT I'm gonna kill myself. :P

==============

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 11:00 PM
but black-ops people DO know special "martial" moves. They have to. Even a punch to the larynx would do the trick.

So they should have it.

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XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 12:26 AM
rikakiah wrote:
- Which problem, Halo? Lack of hand to hand combat,
- or unrealistically quite take downs?

the lack of hand to hand combat, sorry i wasnt clear

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XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 12:59 AM
In a FPS, you don't need hand-to-hand-combat IMHO

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XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 04:10 AM
It depends of what game. If a game is a complete fragfest then you don't need one. If its a stealth mission that doesn't needs too much guns, I think its just right.

Sam needs to know pressure point fighting couples with simplistic but deadly martial arts moves. No flashy spinning kicks and sci-fi kung fu sh*t please.

==============

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 05:21 AM
yeah i see what yall mean cause if you run out of ammo and u get into a comabt situation u should at least be able to attack faster, i mean it doesnt take 7 secs to do a forearm smash! does anyone else notice how annoying that can be?

If a man is in the forest and there are no women to hear him is he still wrong?

Two things always to remember, always respect women and never eat green berries.

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 05:29 AM
woah! were did u learn all that? do you work in a chem lab or sumin?? but still i think you are absolutely right there should be knock out and kill drugs, and the one you said made ppl very "suggestible". to make this work ubi soft should outfit sam with a scanner device so he could estimate ppl's weight.

eh easier said then done, but hey its a game they can do whatever they want

If a man is in the forest and there are no women to hear him is he still wrong?

Two things always to remember, always respect women and never eat green berries.

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 05:37 AM
They don't need like matrix moves, but Judo would be a good one, because it's mainly grabs, holds, and it's what Ninjas used, because it was quiet and could be deadly. And trust me, i know people that take judo, and it would be perfect.

Fox

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 04:05 PM
my brother is a marine.

with my permission i let him use his hand-to-hand combat on me.

i had a water piston and he was able to detain me before i shot him.

Same is much more than a marine.

Without a doubt, if he needed to go into a situation barehanded.....or not kill anyone....he could at least but a sleeper hold


hell....he could take a security gard and tie his hands with a cable-tie and duct tape his mouth.

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XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 07:57 PM
If anyone knows the Law Enforcement video "Surviving Edged Weapons" a guy demonstrated that even at 20 feet you can still close to an person before he draws a gun. At the demo, the guy with a knife was able to stab a police officer at 20 feet. The PO wasnt able to pull the trigger.



==============

Survival.

That's the game.

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 02:00 AM
In the the most top special forces
they use Krav maga so i think that be nice
and my dad was an instructor of krav maga at the US special forces
he taught me some basic movements and its very nice

its a non-nonsense system of fighting that combines some of the kicks and hits from other martial arts and adds its own. its purpose is to kill or incapcicate the enemy as fast and as easy as possible obtaining less or no damage

they should make it Krav Maga

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 03:59 AM
sYSTEMeRROR117 wrote:
- woah! were did u learn all that? do you work in a
- chem lab or sumin?? but still i think you are
- absolutely right there should be knock out and kill
- drugs, and the one you said made ppl very
- "suggestible". to make this work ubi soft should
- outfit sam with a scanner device so he could
- estimate ppl's weight.
-
- eh easier said then done, but hey its a game they
- can do whatever they want

Your scanner device idea is.clever theory. I never thought of that. It might be possible to build such a thing now. But I do not think we could make it precise enough. These drugs of this kind, they are inhumanly powerful. It is so easy to give too much! Use weaker drugs, and the person will resist before they pass out. You use them on people that you already have good intelligence on, so that you already know exactly how much they weigh. If your intelligence is very good, you have medical data on the person which is so detailed, you know how they metabolize things. So then you know exactly how long the drug will have effect, and when they will recover. If they pretend to be unconscious, you will know. Weight, weight. Everything depends on weight with these drugs. Also, does the person have any health problems? "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer. You good intelligence need! For specific person it must be. Otherwise pack up and go home you must. Or else, use other method.

In the game, Fisher cannot have a knife. If he did, the game would be too violent. So, not having a knife severely restricts the number of sentry removal techniques he has available. Most techniques rely on "unarmed manuver x followed by cutting of throat"
"unarmed manuver x followed by easier stabbing of subclavian artery"
"unarmed manuver x followed by stabbing through ear canal"
"unarmed manuever x followed by stabbing between cervical vertebrae at back of neck." There are number of options for x.

Two other options involve the sentry's helmet, but if the sentry has no helmet those are worthless.

These being removed, it leaves:
1. Knock sentry unconscious with hammerblow to back of head.
2. Choke sentry, either with garrote or with arm if incredibly strong (like Fisher).
3. Break the sentry's neck if incredibly strong and knowing exactly how. This is loud, like an unsilenced gunshot.
4. Come down on sentry from above (hit sentry in the head on the way down, like Fisher, or you will be tripped up).
5. Shoot the sentry.
6. Use the Belgian takedown on the sentry.

Of these, Ubi considers #3 too gruesome. They have a point. 1, 2, 4, and 5 exist. 6 is as follows:

Go back on your haunches and crouch down very low so that you head is just a bit lower than Fisher's head is when he crouches. Come up very carefully directly behind the sentry. Grab the sentry's ankles on the inside, slamming your hands out and back. The sentry will fall flat on his face. As he does so, kick the sentry viciously in the groin. This is loud, and perhaps the enemy's weapon will go off besides. I do not think this is very good for Fisher. It can however be good for others, especially when you are unarmed and there is only one enemy.

XyZspineZyX
11-18-2003, 07:45 AM
Does anybody remember that part in the Black Hawk Down book how Mark Bowden was talking about how you can incapacitate a guy by kicking him in the femoral Artery? I would want Sam to be able to do that if the guards know he is there, instead of running up to them and taking ten seconds to elbow smash them twice.

XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 10:06 AM
Not sure how that would work. Lessee... Femoral artery is one of the largest in the body, but why would kicking it knock people out? Hydrostatic shock to the brain? There's quite a distance between the heart and the brain, so I don't buy that.

Most you'll get out of kicking a guy in the leg is a good charleyhorse. That's kinda useful, but it's a far cry from a straight knockout. Besides, I doubt the guy's going to stand there like a lump while you try to kick his leg. Silly... That one's just a bit too goofy for ubi to throw in, I think.

XyZspineZyX
11-28-2003, 04:20 PM
Sorry, but points in the leg are more important than you think. There's a pressure point slightly above the knee, that when hit hard enough will take an opponent down. Don't think it will actually knock them out, but it will incapacitate long enough for Sam to get behind and do a sleeper hold or some other technique. This pressure point is sympathetic, meaning when it's hit, the corresponding point on the other leg will give as well. However, a more useful hit may be the brachioplex (sp?) on both sides of the neck. A flat-handed strike to the side of the neck will knock someone out (the edge of the hand can kill them...).

Back to the leg, slicing that artery will make you bleed out VERY quickly. Not Sam's style, I realize, but it's suprising how important different parts of the body really are...

XyZspineZyX
11-29-2003, 06:45 AM
Ugh... Did you actually read my post? What I SAID was that you can't knock someone out by kicking them in the leg. No more, no less.

If you want to incapacitate, injure, or kill someone, there are plenty of locations on the legs that will facilitate this. That pressure point, like you mentioned, can be used to give someone what is commonly known as a "charleyhorse," or "dead leg." You can also use a knife to cut someone's hamstrings, Achilles tendon, or simply sever their femoral artery by cutting along the imaginary line running from someone's hip bone to their groin.

What I also said is that someone will not simply stand there and let you do this do them. There are other, more effective ways of dealing with people, especially ARMED people. I'm certainly not going to try that on someone if he's holding a gun.

XyZspineZyX
11-29-2003, 09:01 AM
I'm also saying that it's a bit more than a charleyhorse, unless you define a charleyhorse as the person instantly dropping to the ground (most charleyhorses I've had still leave me fully capable of functions-albeit in a lot of pain). Chances are good the person won't get a decent shot on you. However, chances are iffy whether or not you'll actually hit the point, and less that he won't fire the gun at all (and blow your stealth). But yeah, I guess what we're both saying is there's multiple ways to kill and incapacitate-some are more guaranteed than others... Personally, going against a guy with a gun? I don't think there's really any guarantee inside of 600 yards... In reality with this game, I don't think there's too many moves they can add that would benefit the game more than hinder the controls.

XyZspineZyX
11-29-2003, 12:35 PM
That's pretty much the thing. You've already got several moves that you can use to knock out someone. If you catch them unawares, one elbow to the back of the head will do it. Two, if they see you coming (and don't shoot you in the head after the first elbow connects). You can grab them, then club them over the head with the butt of your pistol if you want. If you can get above them, you can land a falling two-handed hammer punch on the backs of their necks.

I think that perhaps people are asking for things that are somewhat redundant. Do you really need ten different ways to knock someone out from behind? Why bother using martial arts against someone with a gun? For that matter, why use them against someone without a gun? If someone challenges me to a karate duel, I'll give him a third eye socket and save myself the trouble, not to mention the bumps and scrapes.

A knife WOULD be kind of useful, if you could have it at the ready for surprise encounters. You can't move very fast with your pistol at the ready, but you could still run while you had your knife out. Just something for (fairly) silently dealing with those people that just seem to pop out in front of you.

Remember, this is first and foremost, a game. When Sam busts out the medkit, it's like a multi-month ICU stay PLUS physical reconditioning rolled into a couple seconds and a little plastic box.

XyZspineZyX
11-30-2003, 06:16 AM
"but you could still run while you had your knife out" Didn't your teacher tell you NOT to run with scissors?!?!?! Sheesh, mine was ALWAYS trying to tell ME that, at least... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I agree with the martial arts vs gun-I'm still a bit leary of Sam being able to always even get that first elbow off without getting killed!

XyZspineZyX
12-08-2003, 12:02 AM
Think of the ninjas of ancient Japan. They were trained in the martial arts.
The new Mission Impossible game has some cool moves...afaik, I've only seen a trailer. But smacking someone with your elbow is kind of noisy *thwock*. I'd rather use a hand chop to the neck. Remember in the CIA level, when you took someone hostage, you were in a "move-and-I'll-break-your-neck" pose? We should be able to actually break their neck, like the pose suggested.

There could also be an easy mode for the kids XD.

XyZspineZyX
12-08-2003, 06:27 AM
In the articles about PT it says that (at least in the multiplayer mode) mercs can find you by spilled blood so you have to patch yourself up before moving on. Based on this the knife might not be a good idea because if the same applies for single-player (i hope so) youd have to find a place to cut em without spilling to much blood (not an expert at bloodless killing, sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

I also agree that Sam shouldnt be doing the spinning kicks or Mortal Kombat 10 step combos, but at least an effective way to knock them out in maybe 2 seconds not 8secs. for a couple slaps. But, if you want kicks maybe a blow to the head, kick to the back of the knee and then laying them down silently instead of beating them and letting them hit the floor like its a base drum. If someones got pistol pointed at me im not gonna use my elbow im gonna grab the slide of the gun, point it away from me and take the dude down. Maybe break his nose with the heel of your hand or knock his wind out.

XyZspineZyX
12-08-2003, 07:36 AM
SithiR wrote:
- Succinylcholine is a muscle relaxant. It is
- very hard to trace, but not impossible with a good
- lab. Until recently there were no tests for it, but
- then the Swedes found a test for it. They taught the
- best law enforment laboratories in certain countries
- how to do that test. Five milligrams will probably
- kill you. Seven will definitely kill you. Less than
- five will paralyze you within three seconds, so that
- for hours you will be only be able to breathe and
- move your eyes.

Yea they mentioned this drug in tom clancy's new book teeth of the tiger...the assasins used these to take out the terrorists without leaving a trace behind coz the doctors didn't kno wat to look for. It supposed to make the person look like he had a severe heart attack.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 03:08 AM
Yes. That is where I got some of my knowledge about it. Not all, but some. An American horseman, having access to this drug for verterinary purposes, viciously used it to drug his wife and arrange her so that she fell off her horse. Thus, she was killed when her head struck a stone. It was a miracle the police traced it. For the police to do this, it took being suspicious, as well as having many months and being unusually well-informed about toxicology.

Another incident occured when a nurse murdered her husband while he slept, by injecting him with succinylcholine that she had stolen from the hospital where she worked. Sometimes, it is used to relax people's breathing passages just enough so that you can intubate them. Otherwise, intubation can be very dangerous because the person who needs to be intubated will cough, so that you cannot get the tube down their trachea to let air in.

Very powertful, very strong -- worst ever in fact -- is tetrodotoxin, from a certain puffer fish in Japan (fugu). For a dart to the neck, 800 molecules will kill you. Elapsed time will be less than one second. EIGHT HUNDRED MOLECULES. It is real, and true, I kid you not.

It can be traced if you are suspicious and you have enough time (many days).

It is said that some of the Malay indigenous people know a leaf which, when heated, will produce a gas which kills very quickly by paralysis. I do not know what the agent is.

I do not think we should talk about foul drugs and poisons any more.

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 06:03 AM
Most powerful natural toxin in the world is still botox, or clostridium botulinum toxin, which can be found in spoiled food. It's estimated that an amount of botox equal to the weight of the ink in a printed period is enough to kill thirty people. One ounce could theoretically kill thirty million tonx of living matter, and one pound could kill the earth's entire human population.

Also, FYI, tetrodotoxin (TTX), while found in puffer fish, can also be found in blue-ringed octopi and several other animals. It does not, however possess the power to kill someone in less than a second. No toxin does, as toxins must be circulated through the body to reach the areas that they affect. Even with an injection to the neck, nerve agents will still require time to take affect.

That said, TTX does not affect the brain, because it cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier. Nor does it appear to affect the heart, but instead, affects the peripheral nerves of the body, causing voluntary muscle paralysis. Death results from respiratory failure, when the diaphram and the chest wall muscles are paralyzed.

Though there is apparently no antidote for TTX, people can be kept alive on life-support, and after about 24 hours, most of the effects of the toxin will have faded.

http://www.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/bluering2.html

A more interesting toxin is ricin, which is derived from castor beans. It does not affect the nervous system, but instead attacks the eukaryotic cells of the body, deactivating their ribosomes, which are organelles responsible for protein synthesis. Death is typically fairly slow, as a result of blood poisoning and the breakdown of the circulatory system. The most famous (infamous?) example of its use was in the assassination of Georgi Markov, a Bulgarian dissedent, in 1978, when he was *****ed with a ricin-tipped umbrella. There is no known cure for ricin poisoning. One molecule of ricin is apparently enough to deactivate approximately 1500 ribosomes in a cell, per minute.

I personally don't find poisons and other drugs or toxins repulsive. They are simply tools, and like all tools, they can be misused.

XyZspineZyX
12-13-2003, 06:44 AM
Well, the forums don't want me editing my message. Bleh.

Edit: Well, so much for that. More then...


- Think of the ninjas of ancient Japan. They were trained
-in the martial arts.
- The new Mission Impossible game has some cool
-moves...afaik, I've only seen a trailer. But smacking
-someone with your elbow is kind of noisy *thwock*. I'd
-rather use a hand chop to the neck. Remember in the CIA
-level, when you took someone hostage, you were in a
- "move-and-I'll-break-your-neck" pose? We should be able to
- actually break their neck, like the pose suggested.
-
- There could also be an easy mode for the kids XD.

Yes, but the ninjas of ancient Japan did not carry guns. Even then, you always attempt to kill someone from as far away as possible unless you have a very good reason for attacking them face-to-face. That's why ninja used bows, throwing knives, and other such implements. It is simply safer to attack someone from afar.

To be fair, most of the noise you get from knocking someone out is a result of them crashing to the ground. If I'm behind him, I'm not going to bother with some silly chop to the neck, because if it doesn't work, he's not under my direct control. Put a knife in his kidney and choke him out. Or, a blow to the groin/back of the knee, get him on his knees, and choke him from behind.

Breaking necks is noisy. Besides, you don't have your pistol in that level because they don't want you killing the CIA guys. If you do have the pistol though, just use that, or a knife again. It's simpler, easier.


- In the articles about PT it says that (at least in the
-multiplayer mode) mercs can find you by spilled blood so
-you have to patch yourself up before moving on. Based on
-this the knife might not be a good idea because if the same
-applies for single-player (i hope so) youd have to find a
-place to cut em without spilling to much blood (not an
-expert at bloodless killing, sorry )

Generally, wounds do not bleed overmuch from penetration wounds, particularly if the penetrating object is left in the wound channel. Lacerations, by contrast, tend to bleed excessively. So, slitting the throat is out, but knife in the kidney/heart/brain isn't.

- I also agree that Sam shouldnt be doing the spinning
-kicks or Mortal Kombat 10 step combos, but at least an
-effective way to knock them out in maybe 2 seconds not
-8secs. for a couple slaps. But, if you want kicks maybe a
-blow to the head, kick to the back of the knee and then
-laying them down silently instead of beating them and
-letting them hit the floor like its a base drum. If
-someones got pistol pointed at me im not gonna use my elbow
-im gonna grab the slide of the gun, point it away from me
-and take the dude down. Maybe break his nose with the heel
-of your hand or knock his wind out.

Kicks to the head are typically quite slow, unless you are all but unencumbered (including clothes :P). A snap kick typically lacks the power to KO someone, and while the roundhouse has the power, it is slow, and telegraphs itself badly. Remember, Sam's wearing a vest, which burdens him somewhat, and restricts his flexibility.

Above all else, it doesn't have to be fancy, it simply has to WORK. You're looking to transmit the most power in the shortest distance possible. That's why knees and elbows are such effective weapons.

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 11:31 PM
Iron, sorry i wasnt clear. I didn't mean a kick to the head, but rather just a normal Sam style elbow/fist. Then kick him to take him down or instead kick his feet out from under him then incapacitate him. You are right, kicks are usually slow and if the person sees it they can counter or reverse it. sorry

XyZspineZyX
12-22-2003, 06:34 PM
well, there are three deadly moves i know of...
1.you use 2 fingers and drive it as hard as you can into the spot right under the bone were all your ribs conect
2. do the same but poke and then pull up and out
3.i forgot the last one

XyZspineZyX
12-22-2003, 10:47 PM
Any small, hard object (knuckle, etc) to the temple will do it as well, but we're looking for instant incapacitation, not death... Only one I really know of is the brachioplex (sp?) running down both sides of the neck. Simply done with a blunt object (forearm or back or palm of the hand).

XyZspineZyX
12-31-2003, 02:49 PM
Martial arts would be good but not matrix like the game should be realistic. Some basic matrial art would be good not kick or so because there is some throut in sam being a bit old. Perhaps they should make something like patches that you can download through x-box live. (they should make a patch that sam has a ninja sword)

It would be cool that when you complete the game you have a few cheats or so for the fun.

XyZspineZyX
01-02-2004, 05:41 AM
No!!!! martial arts should not be included in the game, but if they insist on putting it in there the only move that sam should be able 2 perform is an upclose move 2 takes his opponents gun off him.

IMO if u start putting action moves in the game it will just encourage people 2 run around shooting and kicking every thing they see. I don't know about "kali" or that hava martial art or watever but sam all sam needs is a basic move (if at all) 2 take an opponents weapon of him and incapacitate and the best 4 this is probably judo or akiedo. but other thatn that NO MARTIAL ARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and another thing those people who say sam needs a new move 2 incapacitate from behind Y?????? cause the elbow works perfectly well from behind and it's a blow 2 the base of the neck so it's completly effective and ne martial arts instruction would recomend that move from behind

XyZspineZyX
01-04-2004, 06:20 AM
I think that it would a good idea but if he doesthat then he should be able to catch his enemies before they fall

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 09:59 PM
well, what i want is a way of KOing someone from the front without loosing half your life.

XyZspineZyX
01-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Sh**! Are some of you guys, ex-navy seals, or drug addicts?

All the info you guys know about certain things makes me nervous /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

________________________________
// Zikor4 - http://Zikor4.1go.dk

XyZspineZyX
01-07-2004, 12:00 AM
Zikor, I'm going with "drug addicts". /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And junkyplayer, the trouble is, think about actually executing a frontal attack on someone with a gun in real life. The fact that Sam can do it consistantly without dying is pretty wild in and of itself. Perhaps if you absolutely suprised the guy (drop down right in front and immediately plant an elbow...), but if the target got any glimpse of you, your chances of success drop exponentially. An airfoil followed by a rush attack is probably the most realistic technique for this.

Or, you could try the wall flip... <end sarcasm>

XyZspineZyX
01-07-2004, 01:21 AM
and i think the "but if you did a wallflip..." is and landed on his shoulder would be a perfect move for someone whos chasing you to KO them, especially if you landed on their shoulders.

XyZspineZyX
01-07-2004, 01:53 AM
Yeah, but what are the chances that someone would actually do that in the real world? First of all, I dont think the guy would chase ya, rather kneel and try to take you out!

________________________________
// Zikor4 - http://Zikor4.1go.dk

XyZspineZyX
01-07-2004, 01:54 AM
IT would be cool if you could do Karate chops and kicks.

<center>[<img src="http://users.skynet.be/bk381862/sssig.JPG"][/center]

XyZspineZyX
01-10-2004, 05:39 PM
Oh give me a break.

==============

Survival.

That's the game.