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View Full Version : Heres the thing- in a few months....



Spikey3
04-03-2004, 03:07 PM
No one expected for the 102 patch to be so large an update. Not in size, but the amount of seperate fixed or added things.. I would be surprised that Matt or Carl knew just how many things would be fixed or added when it all started. Fix one thing, break another is the process for the coders, and it takes time to get everything right. Kudos for not rushing this patch out.

Many are chompin at the bit to get this update, including me. On its release (within 10-15 days now Im guessing) we will all be rewarded for "free". Thats right- free as in we didnt have to pay a dime to download this update.
Lets not forget that in the coming weeks/months when the "whens the next patch/add-on due crowd" appears- we kindly remind them that some worked a whole lot of hours and fixed a whole lot of things already, for free... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Spikey3
04-03-2004, 03:07 PM
No one expected for the 102 patch to be so large an update. Not in size, but the amount of seperate fixed or added things.. I would be surprised that Matt or Carl knew just how many things would be fixed or added when it all started. Fix one thing, break another is the process for the coders, and it takes time to get everything right. Kudos for not rushing this patch out.

Many are chompin at the bit to get this update, including me. On its release (within 10-15 days now Im guessing) we will all be rewarded for "free". Thats right- free as in we didnt have to pay a dime to download this update.
Lets not forget that in the coming weeks/months when the "whens the next patch/add-on due crowd" appears- we kindly remind them that some worked a whole lot of hours and fixed a whole lot of things already, for free... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG27_Arklight
04-03-2004, 03:14 PM
I seriously doubt that the coders worked for free.

lol

Ark

Everybody is a Christian in a foxhole. -R.I.
------------
2.4C @ 3.6 Default Volt.
ASUS P4C800-E (Rev. 11)
1GB Mushkin PC3500 LvL2 Black @ 2-2-2-5
Radeon 9800XT (Cat. 3.10)
SB Augigy Gamer
Antec True550
Zalman 7000A-CU HSF
4 Case fans/1 120mm Blowhole

Spikey3
04-03-2004, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Arklight:
I seriously doubt that the coders worked for free.

lol
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just which part in the movie "I cant read" did you play exactly Ark? Let me guess, your the star of the show... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Of course the "code makers" didnt work for free, nor did I say they did. The "patch" we received (or will) however is "free of charge" for the users....

Thats what Im saying we should be thankful for, now and in 6 months from now. But, its hard to keep the faith up brothers. I can almost garantee that wont be the case- and wont last. Why you ask? I mean, how can it be so, when we have some folks here now who cant even understand a compound sentence or its meaning now, much less remember in 6 months just how much hell these people who fixed the code and managed these forums went through, just for our continued enjoyment of Lomac...Sigh... The only saving grace I guess, is that these Eagle folks already know all this already. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

[This message was edited by Spikey3 on Sat April 03 2004 at 05:33 PM.]

BRICROCKS
04-03-2004, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spikey3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Arklight:
I seriously doubt that the coders worked for free.

lol
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just which part in the movie "I cant read" did you play exactly Ark? Let me guess, your the star of the show... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Of course the "code makers" didnt work for free, nor did I say they did. The "patch" we received (or will) however is "free of charge".... Thats what Im saying we should be thankful for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee "FREE OF CHARGE", I'm so thankful. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Maybe they should have finish their product before they put it on the shelves. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WinXP Pro: P4 3.4c 800mhz fsb:Asus P4C800-E Deluxe MB:4 x 512mg Kingston hyperX 3500: ATI Radeon 9800 pro: 2 x 36gb WD Raptor's Raid 0, Diamond Max9 160gb S-ATA HD's: Audigy2 ZS Platinum; All the latest drivers. CH Products HOTAS & TrackIR.

Nate--IRL--
04-03-2004, 06:36 PM
well i am thankful http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Nate

Spikey3
04-03-2004, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe they should have finish their product before they put it on the shelves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea right. Them and every other software developer pipe dream. It doesnt work this way. It "cant" work this way in a money and schedule driven world. Companys need income to "pay" for patch development which aint free as our brilliant brother Ark has pointed out.... In fact there are so many different "other" reasons as to why it cant be done this way now, it boggles the mind, and it can never be reversed even if they tried to IMO.


But - See what I mean? The patch is not even out yet, and its already started... There is no appreciation or respect for whats to come, or how hard it was to get there. Its always- what have you done for me lately. Mine mine mine. Selfish is as selfish does http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif in other words... Just maybe if this was not such a money driven I want mine first world, there would be no need for patches eh? Three words for ya Bricrocks... Get over it ...

[This message was edited by Spikey3 on Sat April 03 2004 at 05:50 PM.]

Supr
04-03-2004, 06:53 PM
Comon, someone tell us how "if they bought a car that was this buggy, they would ............-well you know the rest of the story.

I always love how a 40 thousand dollar car, and something that cost less then a good dinner can be compared to each other. I bet the same guys blame the cop when the get speeding tickets too.

BRICROCKS
04-03-2004, 07:05 PM
Spikey,
I guess UBI and ED didn't do it for the money Huh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'll tell you what I am grateful for, is the guys in the community that help other people out with their problems they've had with LOMAC.

Also the Modder's who have been able to fix many of the problems with their ingenius addon's.

These people did it for "FREE" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

WinXP Pro: P4 3.4c 800mhz fsb:Asus P4C800-E Deluxe MB:4 x 512mg Kingston hyperX 3500: ATI Radeon 9800 pro: 2 x 36gb WD Raptor's Raid 0, Diamond Max9 160gb S-ATA HD's: Audigy2 ZS Platinum; All the latest drivers. CH Products HOTAS & TrackIR.

bflagg
04-03-2004, 07:06 PM
you know. I've tried to avoid this type of BS, those who
say something similar to Supr's position, is missing the point.

It's the principle of the thing that is the issue here.
and some are callous to one's perspective and insulting.

Yes the game is 40.00, and people expect bugs, but not at the
point it's being delivered out of the box. Carl and Co. are
doing there best and that IS something to be noted and appreciated.
but being belittled for expressing frustration I think is uncalled for...

Brett
Machine Specs (http://www.theflaggs.com/lockon/machine.htm)

...just my 2...
and if you want change, sorry but I've got no sense!

Jorb
04-03-2004, 07:18 PM
Maybe they should start a forum for people to vent their frustration that everyone else can totally ignore.

I'm just sick of all the people who say this shouldnt have been released like this. I'd rather be playing a buggy LOMAC than no LOMAC at all.

BSR_RuGGBuTT
04-03-2004, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Yes the game is 40.00, and people expect bugs, but not at the
point it's being delivered out of the box. Carl and Co. are
doing there best and that IS something to be noted and appreciated.
but being belittled for expressing frustration I think is uncalled for...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's the 'glass half empty' mentality at work here. Instead of crying Bric did you bother to read the EULA? You agreed when you installed the game that the software was sold "as is". Now (legally) the responsibility lies on you. Wags and Stormin' are working on the patches to satisfy their customers. If shiznit is broken (and it is) aren't you glad they have the wherewithall to stand behind their work and attempt to fix it? What I see is alot of integrity from those 2 gentlemen, and alot of hard work from the software writers that almost always remain nameless. This next patch doesn't just fix issues, they added some extras that they didn't have to address. But, they spend time here on the boards and are doing what they can for us. Regardless of how you feel Bric, I'm thankful that there are people out there in "Software-land" that didn't just take the money and run.

http://www.teambsr.com/Pictures/ruggbutt01.gif
I will redouble my efforts based upon your inspiring and encouraging message. Thanks very much for the show of support.
----Stormin'----

Spikey3
04-03-2004, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What I see is alot of integrity from those 2 gentlemen, and alot of hard work <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Bric wrote: Spikey,
I guess UBI and ED didn't do it for the money Huh?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes they did the game for money, and other reasons only known to those involved. Whats wrong with that, and can you not see the difference between the cost of Lomac versus the cost of the patch?Lemme give you a hint- about 40 bucks, but it go's deeper than the funds involved and thats something you have yet to learn.

[This message was edited by Spikey3 on Sat April 03 2004 at 07:11 PM.]

Stormin
04-03-2004, 10:11 PM
Why is it that some of you guys go out of your way to get into a pissing contest?

Amazing.

Carl

http://home.comcast.net/~ccnorman/public/storminsig3.jpg
__________________________________________________ _______________
Carl C. Norman
Executive Producer & Consultant
The Fighter Collection/Eagle Dynamics

Disclaimer: I am a representative from the Developer of Lock On: Modern Air Combat. I am NOT a spokesman for Ubi Soft nor am I a Moderator for their forums. Official announcements concerning release dates will come directly from Ubi Soft. All features and dates mentioned in this posting are variable and subject to change at any time.

bflagg
04-03-2004, 10:43 PM
that's because only some of us stand down wind....

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brett
Machine Specs (http://www.theflaggs.com/lockon/machine.htm)

...just my 2...
and if you want change, sorry but I've got no sense!

bflagg
04-03-2004, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSR_RuGGBuTT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Yes the game is 40.00, and people expect bugs, but not at the
point it's being delivered out of the box. Carl and Co. are
doing there best and that IS something to be noted and appreciated.
but being belittled for expressing frustration I think is uncalled for...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's the 'glass half empty' mentality at work here. Instead of crying Bric did you bother to read the EULA? You agreed when you installed the game that the software was sold "as is". Now (legally) the responsibility lies on you. Wags and Stormin' are working on the patches to satisfy their customers. If shiznit is broken (and it is) aren't you glad they have the wherewithall to stand behind their work and attempt to fix it? What I see is alot of integrity from those 2 gentlemen, and alot of hard work from the software writers that almost always remain nameless. This next patch doesn't just fix issues, they added some extras that they didn't have to address. But, they spend time here on the boards and are doing what they can for us. Regardless of how you feel Bric, I'm thankful that there are people out there in "Software-land" that didn't just take the money and run.

http://www.teambsr.com/Pictures/ruggbutt01.gif
I will redouble my efforts based upon your inspiring and encouraging message. Thanks very much for the show of support.
----Stormin'----<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BSR... I think you missed my point.
yes it's only a game.
Yes it's not a car.
But the perceptions is the thing should work
right out of the box. Unfortunately, that is
not real world and EULA give the developer a
get out of trouble card for bad software.
Carl and Co. hasn't abandoned us on this game
and that is to be commended and thanks given.

But belittling people who are under a certain
perception, just, isn't right..!

..Sorry I feel that way. I just deal with people all day who think everything in the PC
world is perfect and it takes time to educate
them otherwise. belittling them servers no purpose and I honestly think is has no place
here unless it is well deserved.
....definately not on a first time poster.

Brett
Machine Specs (http://www.theflaggs.com/lockon/machine.htm)

...just my 2...
and if you want change, sorry but I've got no sense!

Swivet
04-03-2004, 11:53 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif cheese and whine go good together http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

w\/é"*

BSR_RuGGBuTT
04-04-2004, 12:06 AM
Flagg, I didn't miss your point. I was agreeing w/your post. It's just pointless to post here and complain while he could have posted and stated his problems. I for one have gotten burnt out on the "this game is broke" b.s. I had a few problems too but I wanted to make it run on my comp and it did, on the old and the new.

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem IMHO, and posting in here the same drivel thats been posted by trolls before them has worn thin.

http://www.teambsr.com/Pictures/ruggbutt01.gif
I will redouble my efforts based upon your inspiring and encouraging message. Thanks very much for the show of support.
----Stormin'----

Spikey3
04-04-2004, 01:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why is it that some of you guys go out of your way to get into a pissing contest? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok- I admit I didnt see the no fishing sign posted... I'll stop it.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I only used a little hook Carl, just to rid the pond of carp... How did I know there were whales in here!!!? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BRICROCKS
04-04-2004, 01:15 PM
RuGGBuTT,
I have to commend you on how you've turned my reply to Spikey's post into "this game is broke" b.s.,"It's just pointless to post here and complain while he could have posted and stated his problems." and "You're either part of the solution or part of the problem IMHO, and posting in here the same drivel thats been posted by trolls before them has worn thin.", but this is just standard operating procedure on this forum.

The truth is that I have been able to get LOMAC to run at a satisfactory level. Thanks to the first patch and the great support that is in the flightsim community.

I too thank Wags, Stormin' and ED for standing behind their product, which is just good business IMHO. The fact is that they are doing this to make a living and I'm sure they love their job. I also believe they've spent some long hours of their free time working on this sim, but they probably don't punch a clock, that they work for a set salary. Again I thank them for standing behind their product, I'm sure it will continue.

Now as I pointed in my original reply to Spikey, maybe I was being a little sarcastic, IMHO I do not see this as being "FREE" reward to be thankful for, but as just good business by a company standing behind their product.

I know that a lot of you hold Wags, Stormin' and ED in high regards, they have my respect too, but the people that have my highest respect are the people in the flightsim community who help others in the community with their add-on's, fixes and just plain help by replying courteously to someone's problems, no matter how trivial they may be. They're the one's who do it for "FREE"

S!

WinXP Pro: P4 3.4c 800mhz fsb:Asus P4C800-E Deluxe MB:4 x 512mg Kingston hyperX 3500: ATI Radeon 9800 pro: 2 x 36gb WD Raptor's Raid 0, Diamond Max9 160gb S-ATA HD's: Audigy2 ZS Platinum; All the latest drivers. CH Products HOTAS & TrackIR.

Nemisis_WOF
04-04-2004, 02:46 PM
Well i usually dont post in this type of thread but, i have to make one point.

Yes agreed when you buy a $40,000 car you expect it to run good straight out of the showroom. BUT!

You buy a car and the manufacturer is only building the exact same product identical and the only thing you need to put in it to run is Petrol,Now Petrol is Petrol wherever you buy it so the car manufacturer does not have to worry about making the car compliant to run on 1,000's of different grades of petrol does he? No of course he doesn't.

But a games manufacturer has to build his game to be compliant with hundereds of thousands of different specification PC's .Just because our PC's are IBM compatibles does not make them the same.

When you consider the large number of different processor speeds and different ways that Intel and AMD make their chips work, Different memory (RAM) amounts and speed that people have, Bucket loads of varying GFX cards, the Motherboards that they all run on and different Operating systems to name a few items.

It is actually quite amazing that the games developers makes games that are compatible and playable with such a large proportion of the home Pc's out there.

Now even after all the testing the devs do it is not surprising that there are bugs in games when they are launched, and i for one am very happy with what the ED Devs are doing to make this game the best it can be, Just look at how long the list of fixes is for the first 2 patches.

If that alone does not show you how hard the devs are working on this then i dont know what will.

There is not one game out there today that does not have bugs and require patches after it's launch NOT ONE!!! I bet no one can post a title of a game of this complexity that has been launched and not had a patch released for it in the past 3 years.

Nuff said

WAGS!, STORMIN!, SALUTE http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
"Lose Sight! Lose The Fight!"
http://www.trenzhost.com/files//WOFsig.GIF (http://www.wings-of-fury.com/)

Twelvefield
04-04-2004, 03:03 PM
"I bet no one can post a title of a game of this complexity that has been launched and not had a patch released for it in the past 3 years."


Windows Solitaire has to be one of the most complex computer games ever created. I mean, you have to run a whole operating system just to play freaking cards by yourself cards on your computer (this is what my wife uses the computer for). Yes the O/S needs patching, and a lot of it, but to my memory, Windows Solitaire has never needed a patch job. Add to that it's probably the most widely owned computer game on the planet. Too bad the ending sucks. (SPOILER: the cards all bounce off the screen!)

Kal-Phobia
04-04-2004, 03:12 PM
double post.

Kal-Phobia
04-04-2004, 03:13 PM
Windows Solitaire isn't nowhere near complex, and just because it requires an OS (much like everything else) doesn't make it any more complex. Thus your argument is pointless.

Athlon 2400+ / 1gb ddr @ 2700 / Radeon 9500 pro clocked / Win XP

Nemisis_WOF
04-04-2004, 03:21 PM
Well i was waiting for just that sort of sarcastic reply, i was expecting you to say pinball or minesweeper though! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Barrie "Nemisis" Brownlee
"Lose Sight! Lose The Fight!"
http://www.trenzhost.com/files//WOFsig.GIF (http://www.wings-of-fury.com/)

vipercharly
04-04-2004, 03:23 PM
For Free ????

Sorry,
If my memmory is correct I bought the game for 50 euro. It did not include a manual. The website promised SIGNIFICANT improvement over the demo in terms of crashes and performance..

After patch 1.01 I still have crashes 1/10 th of the missions I fly, my joystick problem is still not solved and I have added extra memmory and new GFX card. I am unable to replay original training missions (with some degree of realism), and still don't know why all of a sudden sometimes the fps crawl along and sometimes they soar into the high 80's.

Think of all the people who still get the bleu screen...

I work for an airline.
If my company delays a flight for several hours we don't say 'sorry this is normal, don't worry we'll make sure you get there for FREE'.

No disrespect for wags and storming who are trying their best to keep us up to date.

brgds,
vipercharly

zzzspace
04-04-2004, 11:51 PM
There is no such thing as a 'finished' sim.

There is no such thing as a bug free sim.

Neither have ever existed, both are impossible IDEALS that don't and won't EVER exist--Ok?

This thread is much like the alleged ED 'fanboy' verses ED critic thread that stupidly festered yesterday. If a user of ED's creativeness posts how much he/she genuinely appreciates ED's ongoing attempts to create the best tactical A2A sim ever, why does someone else feel compelled to create needless conflict over this expression of appreciation? What is that all about? Will anything be changed or improved on that basis?

Obviously not.

What MIGHT work is careful observation, testing and reporting of behaviours under certain specified detailed conditions. If you aren't interested in contributing with that process then stop bringing the conflict going on between your ears into threads like this one, and go and have some fun instead, rather than merely promoting a pointless unnecessary atmosphere of animosity.

zzzspace | www.vaaf.com (http://www.vaaf.com) | Lock On Sound Replacement Pack V2.0 - UPDATE #2 (10 meg) (http://ado.qgl.org/zzzspace_lock_on_sound_effects_version2.zip) | Lock On Menu Music Replacement Main.ogg (6 meg) (http://ado.qgl.org/Main.ogg)

vipercharly
04-05-2004, 06:45 AM
To all of you who reacted to any negative comments, here's a nuance of what I am trying to say:

Take FS2002,FS2004, COMBAT FS,

I never needed to install a patch....
Why ?
Microsoft was so 'money driven and schedule driven' (to use the words of someone else on these pages) that they published a truly finished product. Regarding MS Windows and its many sisters and patches, well I think this as just as bad. But MS has a kind of monopoly doesn't it ? We can not afford not to have windows. However we can afford not to install Lock-on or FS2004 for example.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to create any animosity, I think Lockon is the greatest but we must honestly admit it came out with errors. To assume something you buy is supposed to be flawed is one bridge too far.

I beleive the patch is comming out not for 'humanitarian' reasons or to do us all a big 'for free' favour but simply for commercial reasons. Potential buyers not owning the top end systems and who don't have the time to tweak for hours and hours will not buy the game as long as they read on the internet that lockon is far from 100 pct ok.
Any follow on titles or extentions will not sell as long as the original product is not ok.
Else they would not be working on patch 1.02.

So when some people complain I hope you won't mind since it's their right to do so. I am sure the people of the software company don't take this personal, in fact I'm sure they share the same opinion.

We'll all be glad when the patch comes out, of course ! Why else would we (even us complaining) still be on these forums and burning virtual jet fuel all over the crimean skys.....The fact that the patch holds some reality corrections and a few extra, well it shows the developers do have a heart, I must admit.

This better ?

Brgds,
Vipercharly

AFCadet
04-05-2004, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spikey3:
No one expected for the 102 patch to be so large an update. Not in size, but the amount of seperate fixed or added things.. I would be surprised that Matt or Carl knew just how many things would be fixed or added when it all started. Fix one thing, break another is the process for the coders, and it takes time to get everything right. Kudos for not rushing this patch out.

Many are chompin at the bit to get this update, including me. On its release (within 10-15 days now Im guessing) we will all be rewarded for "free". Thats right- free as in we didnt have to pay a dime to download this update.
Lets not forget that in the coming weeks/months when the "whens the next patch/add-on due crowd" appears- we kindly remind them that some worked a whole lot of hours and fixed a whole lot of things already, for free... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I'm sorry, are you stupid? Who in their right mind whould "pay a dime to download this update"...?! Give me a break. paid 40$ for this game. Which will INCLUDE this PATCH and the Numbers of others I expect to come(!)

Oh man, people bank in on morons like you. Nice guys finish last.