The Way the Ranking System Should Be!

[DaRizat_SCD]

Ok, I have an idea for a ratings system. Its a bit long so bear with me, Ill break it up over a few posts...

[DaRizat_SCD]

Ok, I have an idea for a ratings system. Its a bit long so bear with me, Ill break it up over a few posts...

[DaRizat_SCD]

Good this message board doesnt let you copy paste into the message field. Oh well, I have a word doc, if anyone is interested. Silly my, thinking I should write it in word first, and then break it up..

[Bonds1338]

looks pretty complete so far

PC gamer tag: Bonds.PPk

[DaRizat_SCD]

I might put it html and link it somewhere. Stupid BBS.

[DaRizat_SCD]

http://www.vgonetwork.com/scpt_ranking.htm

There you go, its like a 2 page read, but Its just an Idea I came up with to promote decent gameplay. Check it out if you wish.

[majestyk2004]

Send this to Ubisoft...excellent ideas. Well thought out and effectively complete as far as I can tell. Also, I'd encourage people to read it thoroughly as some of the equations are difficult at first, but they can't be any harder than the way stats are calculated now... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[DaRizat_SCD]

Something I wanted to point out to the people who have read it, is that i set the percentages so that if a spy loss happens, if they play will, they will most likely gain a small amount points anyway. The only way they would lose points is by dropping down to the lower stealth levels (6 and lower). If you play excellently, you can still gain 50% Max.

A few more balancing suggestions:

I need a suggestion to balance the possibility of a spy team standing still in order to gain the 50% Max. If a team is desperate enough they could start a match, and sit around in order to assure themselves half max on thier stats. I dont see this as being a huge problem, but I like to clip all loose ends.

If both players drop out, the match must be completed by the opposite team for the points to be gained. This would eliminate the unlikely scenario that someone could orchestrate quick 50% MAX victories by having friends, or secondary gamertags drop out. this is necessary to prevent an abuse of the points to gain crazy levels. But the likelihood of having 2 people or extra gamertags that you could crucify to get points is low. Let me know what you think on this one.

[majestyk2004]

"I need a suggestion to balance the possibility of a spy team standing still in order to gain the 50% Max."

I guess you could rework the bonuses such that you have a situation where your bonuses are contingent on how much of the objective you've completed. Rather than having a situation where you start out with max stealth points, for example, your max stealth points would be contingent upon finishing the objectives and winning the game. In other words, you might start at X points, and actually disabling/deactivating/stealing each ND133 would add +Y to the total, where:

100% = X +Y1 +Y2 +Y3

Maybe X would be a low number, like 10, and the Ys would be a max of 30 each. If you used the Warehouse for an example, you'd start with 10, then if you opened Sector 2 you'd have 40, then 70 upon the opening of Sector 3, then 100 if you won. If you, for example, left one ND133 in Sector 3 at 25%, two at 30%, and one at 50%, then that 50% one would count as your 'best effort' and you'd get half the possible total, or 15, leaving you 85 points out of 100. From that you'd calculate your total 'bonus'.

This would force the Spies to at least try, as they would only get at best 10% of any bonus points if they just lounged around at the spawn point and didn't try.

This could certainly be made more complex by folding in your ideas of bonuses and deductions for various things. You could treat your potential 100 point bonus as a reservoir of sorts, from which deductions would be taken for doing things like setting off alarms and killing Mercs. I could see a scenario like this (using the Cinema as an example):

Spies complete 2 of 3, and leave best remaining one at 50%. During this, they killed one Merc and set off three motion detectors by moving. This would result in a positive-side effect of 85, from which you would deduct 3 to 15 points (depending on how you count motion detectors) and the points associated with a 'Stealth Rating' on your scale. Say we made setting off a movement alarm worth a -5 (since it pinpoints your position) and killing a Merc a -20. This means that the Spies made 85 - (15+20) = 50 points. Take that amount and figure it against potential maxes. Say your potential max was 30. If you say that 100 points is 100%, then the spies just made 15 points each.

This is all just stuff I figured on the spot at 2am, so if any of it doesn't make sense later let me know...lol

[DaRizat_SCD]

Thats is actually a pretty good Idea. Since we are already calculating CP for the end of the match, it would be a natural progression to take the bonus and have it so you only get CP of the bonus. So if you get 80% done, youd get 80% of the bonus you earned. Good thinking.

[DaRizat_SCD]

Bump-style post!

[drumzrule]

First off let me say I am a PC player, and we don't have a ranking system (yet).

I really like your point system. It is easy to understand and awards points in a sensible manner. Like you said, this point system would encourage the style of play that is meant to be played, which is a good thing for everybody. Spies will be required to use stealth, which will make them better. This in turn will force the mercs to become smarter (as the spies are giving them less clues about their whereabouts). Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

[DaRizat_SCD]

That was the idea...Now only to get this into the proper channels. We can still save this game!

Thanks for the compliments, drumz

[Vjornaxx]

double post

[Vjornaxx]

how about factoring bonuses for getting a spy trap on a spy and removing mines/traps as spies?

I think this is solid, i think the only exception where playing well might get you penalized is intentionally tripping off alarms (not using snares) and running around like an idiot to get mercs to come to you. perhaps you get a small bonus for tipping an alarm within 5 seconds before your partner defuses... and only if the alarm tripped is not in the same area of the ND being defused. it would be difficult to indentify and reward (what if your teammate is just an idiot and they're trying to kill him while you defuse...? should you reward the teammate who fluked a good distraction?)

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[DaRizat_SCD]

The alarm snare gadget facilitates the exact same thing as does running around and tripping alarms. You shoot an alarm snare at a laser beam, it sets it off, you have no reason to do such a thing yourself.

In addition, the only time you would actually begin to lose points against your winning percentage is if you were ridiculously crazy, killed a bunch and made noise constantly.

Remember, under this system with 7 to 12 points per level, before you even got 0 bonus (level 4) youd have to make between 42 and 72 noise points to even achieve no bonus, and to actually lose points against the Half MAX win points, you would have to do a combiation of un-stealth tactics, running around setting off alarms, killing. The point of this is that a good stealthy spy will more than likely gain bonus points (in addition to the Half MAX win bonus), whereas even the best silent deathmatchers would get no bonus, and the very loud smoke smoke smoke, running around dethmatchrs would probably earn themselves negative points for the win.

[Vjornaxx]

I disagree about the alarm snare making unnecessary for you to create a distraction, DaRizat.

Consider this:

1. An alarm is going off for 20 seconds and shows no sign of stopping and there's a constant noise coming from that alarm's direction. The noise does not stop, but does not move either. No motion can be detected.

2. An alarm goes off for 3-4 seconds and there is a noise for that time. The noise stops for a while. a few seconds later, the alarm is goes off again, there is a noise in not quite the same place, and the motion vision catches someone.

The disctraction must convincing for it to be an effective distraction, otherwise a good merc team will write it off as "alarm snare, don't bother." The more convincing it is, the more likely it is to draw mercs to it.

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[DaRizat_SCD]

Boy if only you knew how to shoot one out as soon as you shoot it, that way the alarm only happens one time. These are the things good spies need to get used to doing. YOu shoot the alarm snare, then blow it out right away, and as for one in a hallway, the noises are random, it appears real. The only time you can tell its fake is if you leave it on an alarm, but even then you are getting at least a couple second diversion. But if you shoot it out right away, it appears real, and any merc that completely disregards one alarm is an idiot.

And there really are better things you could be doing to help your partner besides setting off alarms, but If you must do it, you could still pull it off 3 or 4 times with very little bonus penalty. And that is on top of Half MAX win score.

[Vjornaxx]

I still disagree. You can shoot out the alarm after its snared, but the snare is still making a noise that is constant and stationary. Also, if you snare a hallway, the noise isn't random... its constant and comes from a very very specific location and the snare itself is visible on EMF. I'm just saying, it'll work for some mercs... but smart mercs won't be fooled by a snare.

When I play against good mercs, I find that snaring alarms is not effective. I find that a more effective tactic is to shoot 3 - 5 snares on the ceiling and walls and floor of an area and waltz right in because they can no longer rely on sound (so if i make a lot of noise, who cares? there's noise everywhere!).

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[DaRizat_SCD]

Im talking about shooting out the snare, not the alarm, and the noises that the thing makes is random. If you shoot one snare, its indistinguishable. And again, at the very very least, you get a few seconds, which is all a good spy team will need to set up a real ambush with a camera or a KO from behind, as they would be in position, and the snare would start a plan in motion.

Probably the reason you are having such difficulties is that you use the multiple snare technique, thus alerting them that you like to use snares. This makes them skeptical, and you cant use regular diversion tactics.

The multi alarm snare tactic is one of the most worthless against a good merc, at least in neutralization, because any good spy will realize that something is going on, and begin to back towards the objective they are guarding. In a level like hospital, its nearly impossible to do something like this against good mercs.

Not to mention that the snares are visible in EMT, and easily shot off the wall. I woudl suggest actually being quiet, which pshycologically makes the mers ready to jump at the first noise they hear.

Trust me, I am one of the better spies in this game, and my tactics are about 95% effective. Im not bragging, but Ive spent alot of time testing and retesting everything about the game.

[DaRizat_SCD]

And I have tested and retested the way each gadget works on both teams. I know everything about the gadgets, trust me the noise is randon, it isnt repetitive. The only thing that is repetitive is that it will set off an alarm multiple times.

In the case of a laser beam, however, the difference wont be noticeable for at least 5 seconds, which is more than enough time to get yourself into a different area in most maps. The smartest possible merc who had an internal clock would still be fooled for 5 seconds, and thats only if you dont shoot the snare out.

[Parakeet1]

Only problem I have with your idea is making a merc take 10 jump ons from a spy. Frankly it will not be fun to play as merc when I will be jumped on 10 times in a row whenever I try and stand up. Do not underestimate the power of the lame.

[DaRizat_SCD]

Think about what you just said. Do you understand how long that would take? Thats at the very least around 130 seconds, since you are out for 10 seconds, and it takes a few to get up and pass out again. Thats 2 minutes a spy had to devote to kill you in this manner, which only serves to give you points.

Not to mention the fact that in this 2 minutes you could call for backup, or the spy runs the risk of getting detected by the other merc and killed.

If someone wasted 2 minutes of thier time to kill you, they more than likely could never win a match in that manner. Thats not a viable problem, and I dont think it would ever be attempted.

[Vjornaxx]

DaRizat - I know what I'm talking about, too. I'm not going into this without doing my homework. I'm a good player (as a few of the other people in this forum can attest to... if you doubt that, you're more than welcome to play against me while i'm a merc) I've tested each gadget as well, and I've never said I had problems using the snare. Put your ego aside and open up: the snare doesn't make random noise... it triggers the merc indicator in a very recognizable pattern: 1 second on, quarter second off, for 38 seconds. The direction of the noise never varies. And don't take this as a personal attack, i KNOW this is how the snare works (porphyria & nefarioc can confirm this). i stand by that a good merc will not be fooled by a snare because its indication pattern is VERY SPECIFIC.

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[DaRizat_SCD]

If you arent overusing the snare, and you arent making noise yourself, its phsychologically impossible for someone to distinguish the difference. They will react to the noise. Its just a human nature fact. Of course if you are playign against fools who know you and who know you overuse the snare, they are skeptical of thier noise, which is a situation you created by not being deceptive with your use. Its all psychology.

Also, from PC to xbox there may be a difference, but on XBox the noise is random. Its definitely not a recognizable pattern.

[DaRizat_SCD]

All of this is moot anyway, because you get a ton of poitns before you would even get no bonus, let alone losing points against your win total. If you absolutely NEED to trip an alarm yourself (a need that over Like 1,000 games of this I have never had), you arent punished for it too severely. Buit the point is that you have gadgets for that, and there are ways to use them deceptively.

The laser beams and motion detectors are great, especially when you shoot the snares out after one use. A merc cannot disregard the alarm, thats for certain.

[Vjornaxx]

OK, I think I understand the communication error here: You're referring the actual sounds the snare makes (like footsteps or chain link noises), whereas I'm referring to the visual indicators of noise on a merc's HUD. The actual noise is random, true. The pattern in which it is emitted is not random and thus, the visual indicators on the merc's HUD are not random.

OK DaRizat add my name to your list and i will show you what I mean by 'very specific pattern'. its not a question of if people are used to that or not... its a question of cognitive ability. its frustrating me that you don't seem to understand that as a merc, its easy to differentiate the sound indicators of an alarm snare from the sound indicators of an actual spy.

anyhow, i get out of the office at 5 EST.

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[Parakeet1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaRizat_SCD:
Think about what you just said. Do you understand how long that would take? Thats at the very least around 130 seconds, since you are out for 10 seconds, and it takes a few to get up and pass out again. Thats 2 minutes a spy had to devote to kill you in this manner, which only serves to give you points.

Not to mention the fact that in this 2 minutes you could call for backup, or the spy runs the risk of getting detected by the other merc and killed.

If someone wasted 2 minutes of thier time to kill you, they more than likely could never win a match in that manner. Thats not a viable problem, and I dont think it would ever be attempted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it IS a problem. I do not want to spend the majority of a game staring at a black screen that says sleeping on it. As for calling your teammate to help you I think we all know that this does not work. If your teammate leaves his beat he just leaves his nd133's open which then in essence REWARDS the spy for jumping on your head over and over since the other spy will defuse an ungaurded nd133 AND the spy that is jumping on you gets to ruin your gaming experience.

I said it in the previous post but I guess you missed it. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE LAME!

There are people who would jump on you for the sole purpose of ruining the game for you (yes I would be one of them just because it would hilarious to jump on a guy 9 times and just before he died stop jumping and let him go get a heal then jump on him again and start all over). They don't care about the nd133's, they don't want to kill you (after all you just respawn), what they want is to keep you looking at a black screen for as long as possible. As for them not defuseing the nd133's in this time who gives a ****. I play games to have fun. Not to stare at a black screen.

[Vjornaxx]

and sometimes i want them to be skeptical of the alarm being triggered. I've played a game in which i snared the same alarm over and over and over again that they stopped responding to it, so i didn't need to shoot it out when i went by it, since they were writing it off as a snare. of course, those mercs probably weren't the best in the world, but you get the idea: making them skeptical of your snares can work to your advantage.

http://www.angelfire.com/psy/vjornaxx/images/signature.jpg

[DaRizat_SCD]

IN the overall scheme of things, it is nearly impossible for a spy to do this successfully in a 10 minute game.

Add the fact that the spies lose an entire stealth rating for one kill, and that you get a +10% MAX bonus for being killed, it would deter anoyone from doing this, unless they just want to piss you off, in which case, thank them because they are giving you points, and they probably will die, or run out of time.

At the very best wonderful scenario for a spy is he could kill you in 6 MINUTES if he spawn camped you in this way, and I dont feel like anyone would have the attention span necessary to wait around for 6 minutes just doing the same thing. And thats saying that both spies are killing your team in this way. Its not feasible.

Obviously someone doing this would not be going for the objectives, which in the long run would award you with +10% MAX bonus even for losing deathmatch style, plus any kills you got. People arent trying to simultaneously ruin thier rank while awarding you points for doing a monotonous repeated head stomp tactic. It wouldnt happen.

[DaRizat_SCD]

to Vjormaxx, Like i sadi, theres freedom to make some noise and still get bonuses. i mean even if you set off 2 isolation alarms, youdd still be in the 6-7 area which still gives you a bonus on top of your win total.

I agree that sometimes i will set off a non isolation alarm to let them know wher I am, but I could do that once or twice with very little punishment. The goal here is to deter running around, breaking necks, setting off alarms etc.

One or two instances wont ruin your rank, but a repeated abuse in a round will have a cumulative effect on your stealth rating, thus possibly losing your points.

Now that I think of ti, the rules could even be stricter. I mean youre getting spotted up to 72 points before you get no bonus, thats pretty generous.

[DaRizat_SCD]

Bump, Check it out homies!

[Porphyria Plan]

LOL, Vjornaxx. I was going to post at the end of this thread to mention that your tactics work.

DaRizat_SCD, I like your point system just like the other people. It rewards the gameplay that I like so much. I know all this is not part of the game (yet...?) but leaves it open to bring in the capture ID mode with a different point system that rewards spies for playing deathmatch. That way it will make everyone happy and section off the aggro-spies.

I do have to say that Vjornaxx's Snare Tactic works. I am fully aware every game I play with him that he is heavy on their use (just like I am). With his current skill at close quarters fighting taking out your ability to "hear" him evens the playing field so to speak. When alarms snares are going off all around you can not trust it, so you disregard the info. It forces one of the merc skills to be useless. With his entrance covered he can come in for the kill.

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[This message was edited by Porphyria_Plan on Wed April 28 2004 at 03:52 AM.]