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View Full Version : HL2? Doom 3? Far Cry? etc... They are lacking something!



ArachPres
04-15-2004, 07:09 PM
I understand that it's nearly impossible to implement at this point in time because of technological limitations, but I think something me personally (and probably just about everyone else) is waiting for is a game that offers the ability to destroy just about every article and material in the game such as objects, characters & walls.

Completely destructable environments!! Sure, a game can look really impressive.. (just look at the demonstration of UnrealEngine3) but can it offer a world of destructable and dynamically changable materials?

The kind of processing power would be awesome to produce dynamically changing geometry on a constant basis: i.e. bullets actually chipping away at walls and rockets blowing holes through buildings and eventually allowing the physics to topple the building! OH GOD, I wish such a game existed!


Actually...if someone would devise a system that could be moduled into games... like a system that would map how objects are created and are destroyed, then maybe it would be a little easier on the developers... A system much like the implementation of Havoc in modern games for physics!

Any thoughts?

ArachPres
04-15-2004, 07:09 PM
I understand that it's nearly impossible to implement at this point in time because of technological limitations, but I think something me personally (and probably just about everyone else) is waiting for is a game that offers the ability to destroy just about every article and material in the game such as objects, characters & walls.

Completely destructable environments!! Sure, a game can look really impressive.. (just look at the demonstration of UnrealEngine3) but can it offer a world of destructable and dynamically changable materials?

The kind of processing power would be awesome to produce dynamically changing geometry on a constant basis: i.e. bullets actually chipping away at walls and rockets blowing holes through buildings and eventually allowing the physics to topple the building! OH GOD, I wish such a game existed!


Actually...if someone would devise a system that could be moduled into games... like a system that would map how objects are created and are destroyed, then maybe it would be a little easier on the developers... A system much like the implementation of Havoc in modern games for physics!

Any thoughts?

heeyt
04-15-2004, 07:13 PM
Yeah - that sounds like a good idea.

Or maybe the Havoc 2 engine could impliment that in.

STALKER is going to have semi-destructable environments, so that should be interesting. Like if you destroy a plant, it will stay that way. Etc.

ArachPres
04-15-2004, 07:21 PM
Half Life 2 actually has something sort of resembling a system of objects in the world. Each material in the world has certain characteristics and reacts to other things in the world according to defined actions.

But I'm not sure if it's going to be as flexible as I would hope and dream.

Any more thoughts?

gray420
04-15-2004, 07:29 PM
you guys are funny to listen to ya a game will be as flexible as u hope and dream w/e buddy then u can make it.. god there jus games u play them and u get bord fo them till a newer better one comes out, frankly im gettin uninterested in far cry cuz its just more of the same with real good graphics

ArachPres
04-15-2004, 07:32 PM
Well, that's the EXACT REASON WHY you would want something like I'm suggesting! If you could restructure your environments, then you have a virtually infinite amount of gameplay value!

I'm not unsatisfied with Far Cry or any other game! I am just wondering what people are thinking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ScopeGlare
04-15-2004, 07:59 PM
closest we get to that in the near future is some kinda enhancement to the geomod engine thats in Red Faction ... need some massive CPU power to recalculate all objects in real time.

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ArachPres
04-15-2004, 09:08 PM
Is there anybody in this forum or anywhere else that could give me a kind of guestimate on how much power would be needed in terms of CPU processing power, bandwidth, GPU processing etc..?

I would like to get an idea of how many years of waiting it will be before we see true dynamic environments in games http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

gray420
04-15-2004, 09:12 PM
have u not seenthe hl2 video the person who was controlling the in-game in the video was makin teh terrain deform all by himself not even shooting it or anything and that was a while ago probably on a pc like i have now..

ScopeGlare
04-15-2004, 09:26 PM
still a long way to being able to IE blast out the walls of a huge building and have it topple over and crash to the ground.

EDIT: when i say crash to the ground I mean once it impacts it gets turned into rubble etc..just imagine the destruction and mayhem from random_movie_234

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gray420
04-15-2004, 09:32 PM
i know wut ya mean even on my system it still chugs when i go thru some smoke and what not.. imagine a building freshly destroyed in ruins having to run thru. but ya just to render a building exploding in perfect detail is pretty off these days.. pffff' my system runs far cry like a breez so i think im pretty good for a while

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ScopeGlare
04-15-2004, 09:35 PM
heh yeah but it'll happen one day...just hope it will be before I get too old to play hehe... hell i'd never stop playing.

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gray420
04-15-2004, 09:55 PM
unless ur 65.. hell nah.. the way technology's progressing i give er' a good 10 yrs tops..

userox
04-15-2004, 09:55 PM
i would guess u are not going to see fully destructable enviroments because there is no current technology to makeit work. there has to be a limit on how far u can go because of the way something is programmed. you declare variables, loops, etc and they all stop after a set time frame. it is impossible to do in current programming methods & probably ever. What is possible is "massivly destructable" games which will probably happen in 10+ years... (god it is hard replying on my ipaq...)

BuddhaBing
04-15-2004, 10:25 PM
It would be possible to programmatically generate terrain, flora, fauna, objects and even characters dynamically, so that the gameworld would be essentially boundless. However, these dynamically generated entities would necessarily be less complex and detailed than they would be if they were designed and crafted for a specific purpose.

Further, trying to keep the player interested through gameplay and plot elements would be a real challenge if they were able to wander more or less arbitrarily wherever they want.

Finally, remember that it isn't in a developers and publishers best interests to release a game which will keep the player occupied for a long period of time. Unless they move to a subscription based business model, they need you to keep on buying new titles every X months.

Hibiscus7
04-16-2004, 12:05 AM
I guesstimeate 10+ years too. Just over the last few months or year, physics and destructable stuff in games has rapidly become more standard. It would have to be at least 10 years before hardware is capable of processing full world physics and destruction.

After that happens, I want to see realistic view distances :P

Hibiscus7
04-16-2004, 12:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Further, trying to keep the player interested through gameplay and plot elements would be a real challenge if they were able to wander more or less arbitrarily wherever they want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the only serious trouble devs/publishers may have with those features is that there would be so much replayability.

DannyDiplo
04-16-2004, 05:02 AM
'Red Faction' featured destructible terrain (ie. you could blow up walls and stuff) but this was limited to specific areas of the map. The major problem with destructable terrain is that it can destroy any level design. If you can blow up any wall then objectives would become far too easy - you could bypass what the designer intended completely. If you could destroy buildings then you could kill all the enemies before they left the barracks. If you're not careful you'd end up with a total mess, with no plot or method.

mr.amphibian
04-16-2004, 05:12 AM
but it could be one of the best tacitcs ever....

for example a building full of enemies with two entrances, side by side... with deformablenessity you could blow up the entrance over one and only have to deal with the enemies coming out of one entrance instead of surrounding you ...

now thats class

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ArachPres
04-16-2004, 07:30 AM
Ok, to the person that said it would disrupt plot and gameplay...

A: It IS true that if the player had access to a wide variety of very destructive weapons, etc, that it WILL disrupt the story and the gameplay in theory, especially if the storyline requires you to go somewhere and do something very specific. Blowing through a bunch of walls would be almost like cheating. HOWEVER, the solution to this is to take away from the player all weapons that are more powerful than the walls around him or surround him by water or some other impenetrable force or area. A pistol will knaw away at steel but I bet you'll run out of ammo before you make a serious dent!!

Now, envision the second Terminator movie (Judgement Day) when they were stuck in that one building trying to destroy the research materials and Sarah Conor was cornered in an area with no doors. Well, suffice it to say, Mr. Arnold's ways with creating doors was very creative by plowing a giant hole through the wall to rescue her!

That's what I want to be able to do!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and for the gory players out there, I would also like to see bullets actually piercing people and a little bit of "organ-spilling out action" happening when I cut someone open. ;-)

Hehe, ambitious! I say 6-10 years.

Davincie
04-16-2004, 07:46 AM
i thougt HL 2 has destructible terrain?

maggotfeeder
04-16-2004, 07:59 AM
Yep... If I've got a freakin' RL or grenade and I want to go through a door (or window even), I should be able to blow a hole in it and go through. I've thought this for a long time. Red key... we don't need no stinking red key!

I do also agree that it could interfere with the gameplay. Imagine blowing a hole in a wall and falling out of the level or something. Ooops! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/198/198058/folders/141611/998808far-cry-sig-1.gif
The flesh... all too fragile, doth wilt and wither then release from every tendon, and slowly return from whence it was gathered... creating for every worm and maggot a banquet... a veritable feast!

gray420
04-16-2004, 08:08 AM
half life does have destructible terrain

xkrakenx
04-16-2004, 08:43 AM
You mean something like this game?: http://www.codemasters.com/soldiers/index.php?territory=EnglishUSA

It is not a FPS but from the videos and descriptions it has something akin to what you are describing. I too, would love to have a fully destructible environment in a game. The possibilities would be endless.

Just think of a farcry type map, with lots of vegetation. Sure you can sneak through it and fight that way, but what if you could just blast you way throught forest leveling the trees and leaving a path of destruction in your wake.

Or maybe being able to shoot limbs off trees and have them come crashing down on nearby soldiers.

I could go on and on. That kind of replayability would be great and I don't think that it is too far off.

Alib2001uk
04-16-2004, 09:06 AM
Yeah I just wanted to tell you guys that FarCry does have a kinda limited way of destroying terrain, try throwing a grenade or firing a rocket on an area of terrain which doesn't have any non destructable objects near, such as Tress, Rocks, etc. You will have a nice little crater in the ground. Area which are goo to observe this on: Road Path/beaches, etc - areas with little or no objects to the explosion. Also works on cliffs.

ambrsia
04-16-2004, 09:25 AM
has no one here played red faction?

in that you could blow away the base of a stalactight(sp?) and it would fall from the celing and if you're lucky squish a feww mercs.

you could do that to a compleatly flat ceiling and carve away at it till a chunk dropped out and rolled around on the floor, it would then become part of the senery unmoveable unless you used more explosives.

infact i remember that being a part of a level, you could make a boulder fall in a small tunnle shuting it off from the merc reinforcements.

the technology has been around for 4-5 years people it's just that no one has made a good implementation of it.

ps,
contrary to popular believe you could mine away at a tunnle till you got bored or your prossor burned out.

not bad for a 1st post eh?

maggotfeeder
04-16-2004, 09:37 AM
Oh yeah... I played Red Faction and Red Faction 2, and it was kind of neat, but it was very limited in what you could blow up or drill through. I would try to drill through a wall to avoid going through a door (sneak attack, hehe), but it would only let you do it in certain places. I do remember blowing land bridges out from under the feet of some soldiers and watching them fall. That was nice. I also remember taking the drilling machine for a spin through a wall and falling through into an underground lake on the other side. LOL, that was sweet!

Far Cry does have some destructable ground (especially on the beaches). I had a rocket launcher guy shooting at me from a tower, and it was leaving little blackened craters behind me. I also left a few on the Fort level by using the RL in the patrol boat on the mercs on shore. Kinda cool, but not as much as I want to see.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/198/198058/folders/141611/998808far-cry-sig-1.gif
The flesh... all too fragile, doth wilt and wither then release from every tendon, and slowly return from whence it was gathered... creating for every worm and maggot a banquet... a veritable feast!

heeyt
04-16-2004, 09:42 AM
Well - someone mentioned about seeing at actual view distances. That is not too far off, maybe in two more video card generations you'll see this (4 years).

Destructable environments are closer than you think. Now - not everything will be destructable, (cannot make a crater 100 ft deep), but you;ll be able to make small craters or demolish small buildings or blow holes concrete in a few more gaming engines. The XRay engine that powers STALKER is pretty impressive. In like 5 years, I predict you'll have completely destructable environments.

maggotfeeder
04-16-2004, 10:02 AM
There was a test level or something in Red Faction called Glass House, I think. Anyway, I kept shooting into a hole in the floor with the RL (ammo respawned), and got it so deep I couldn't see the bottom, then I accidently fell in and it killed me. Not 1,000 feet deep, but pretty freakin' deep! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/198/198058/folders/141611/998808far-cry-sig-1.gif
The flesh... all too fragile, doth wilt and wither then release from every tendon, and slowly return from whence it was gathered... creating for every worm and maggot a banquet... a veritable feast!

ambrsia
04-16-2004, 10:06 AM
like i was saying you could make a crater 100ft deep if you had the time and paitence.

all walls in that game could have been blow upable but the devs wanted you to do the usual find red key for red door crap.

very poor game red faction

good tech

edit:
yea the green house is where i made a chunk of the celing fall out but if you blew out the floor from underneath the green house it didnt fall, in the same way as boulders in fc have no physics.

gray420
04-16-2004, 10:30 AM
ya i played the first few levels of RF and took the travesty back..

watchinthewheel
04-16-2004, 11:04 AM
rf was goin the right way with the technology but really it was never fully used it was more of a gimmik. I have heared that soldner has fully deformable environments, at least buildings in a review it said that a guy with a tank will be easyly able to blow a hole in a wall or destroy a building http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

06-10-2004, 04:36 PM
Silent Storm has destructable terrain. It's no FPS, but it's a turn-based WWII game. You can blast a wal down with a grenade and shoot the enemies on the other side, or shoot a hole in the floor and attackenemies in the basement. Also if the building structure gets too weak, the building collapses. Check it out if you want.

ccieslin
06-10-2004, 07:47 PM
What about that new game F.E.A.R. , I saw the video of it on gamespot and in the demo everything was being destroyed.....from the makers of NOLF and aliens vs predator check it out!

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Mr. White
06-10-2004, 08:27 PM
Rumour has it that a new game "Soldner" (with an umlaut on the "O"), will have such features. I'm not sure what engine it uses but my Ghost Recon clanmates were describing the demo, which had terrain and objects that could be manipulated and damaged...

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alias443
06-10-2004, 09:31 PM
Actually there is such a game with such powers of turning buildings to rubble/ wipeing them off the face of the earth more or less.

It's a completely different kind of game...

It's called Battlecruiser Millenium Gold. It takes awhile to build up the resources needed, but the game has nukes that you launch from outer space. One nuke is so powerfull it will destroy alot... R.A.N.D.O.M.! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

never got that far with it tho' got kinda bored with it.

They just recently released a newer version of the same game... new enhancements etc. It's called Universal Combat.

The game is soo different from anything I ever played... you might want to check it out... if you have a lot of time on your hands. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

TheAngryLion
06-10-2004, 11:22 PM
Memory plays a HUGE roll. If you had a game that featured realistic physical properties for all objects, the game's object database would have to be huge (to remember where and how you left everything). It could do it using swap-files, but the constant swapping would really slow things down. They would have to implement "load zones" all over the place, and each zone probably wouldn't be very large.
Once there's a big jump in people's average amount of RAM (not to mention other hardware advances), more things will become more possible.
I look forward to the day, too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fishlore
06-11-2004, 01:13 PM
God help these future mapmakers where everything can be destroyed. I think the novelty of being able to destroy everything, and the effects it would have on the gameplay, would get old real quick.

I still play a game from the old 386 days called XCOM:UFO Defense. It had a fully deformable environment. I have to run a program that slows down my CPU 90% in order to be able to play it.

Submiqent
06-12-2004, 01:59 AM
GO PLAY SOLDNER. ITS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT. ARRGH CAPS. Yeah soldner is what you want, completly destroyable terrain - even in mp.

rainyleg
06-12-2004, 07:02 AM
I remember back in the day, I'd say about 7-10 years ago, I used to think that it would be so cool to be able to play a game where running, driving vehicles on land, at sea and in air would be implemented. Well, that day has come without even noticing. I agree with the people here and say that probably in 10 years (maybe sooner) we will see games where a player can truly interact with the environment in a real way. The tech is advancing pretty damn fast these days. Look at the video card market. They just took a huge leap in that department. I'm sure the rest won't be far behind.

Boz0r
06-12-2004, 07:30 AM
Even though S├┬Âldner has deformable terrain, it's not the advanced, I tried it for about an hour or so. You can destroy most things, but it's not worth enduring the rest of the game, It's even worse than Red Faction. And IMO the graphics are not even better than RF.

06-12-2004, 09:25 PM
You guys are funny! Wanting some really cool things. I'd care less if I can knock out a porch with 1,000 rounds. Or chop down a tree. Or leave tank tracks. I'd take it if it were free. But I would want a good story before I could shoot up the furniture.

But I really would like to see clothes on the player models! And I'm not talking about the spandex painted on clothing that they are trying to pass as fabric. I'd like to see some sort of Shrek-like shirt and pants! I vaguely remember that Nocturne had something of clothing. But I haven't really seen that duplicated until Splinter Cell, and that wasn't on the player models.

Bill Johnson
06-12-2004, 11:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheAngryLion:
Memory plays a HUGE roll. If you had a game that featured realistic physical properties for all objects, the game's object database would have to be huge (to remember where and how you left everything). It could do it using swap-files, but the constant swapping would really slow things down. They would have to implement "load zones" all over the place, and each zone probably wouldn't be very large.
Once there's a big jump in people's average amount of RAM (not to mention other hardware advances), more things will become more possible.
I look forward to the day, too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Microsoft built a computer with a terabyte of ram.

1 terabyte = 1,000 gigabytes

Windows server 2003 Datacenter Edition fully supports 64GB of ram, and partially supports 512GB of ram.http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/features/compareeditions.mspx#512ram
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Itanium-based computers running Windows XP 64-Bit Edition can support up to 16 terabytes of virtual memory and up to 16 gigabytes (GB) of physical memory.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Athlon 64's and the Itanium's will both be able to support up to 16GB of ram. Eventually in the future more motherboards will support this amount of ram and numerous gigabytes of ram will be affordable to the average consumer.

"With AMD64 on our development servers as well as users' desktops, gamers will be able to literally count the beads of sweat on the foreheads of their opponents. 64-bit computing simply means a level of realism that, until now, has existed only in the real world."
- Tim Sweeney, founder and president of Epic Games, maker of the popular Unreal Tournament

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Jobe666
06-13-2004, 01:13 AM
I personaly think 10 years away is a whole new world. I wouldn't have believed Far Cry would have worked on my computer a year ago but the programmers proved me wrong. It's not just hardware improvements that will make destructable environments possible but software as well. I can play Desert Combat or Enemy Territory with far lower quality graphics than Far Cry but they run at the same frame rates. No need to upgrade hardware when games like Red Faction can already do what you're talking about (Red Faction is like 3 years old now too). Having said that though in 10 years we may have broadband brain implants the way we're going, plus games that make full use of it.