Update - 06.26.03

[XyZspineZyX]

This just in from our friends on the dev team...

Patch 1.3: Two major issues were identified and reproduced after the patch was released:
<ul>
<LI>A server crash related to the arm patches
<LI>Non-working CD-Keys.
[/list]
Both problems are being investigated and a fix will be issued as soon as possible.

Patch 1.4: Development is progressing well on patch 1.4. Many bugs related to the netcode have been solved including reticule lock, zoom staying active, a grenade bug, and players getting stuck in ladders.

Some game improvements have also been made including:
<ul>
<LI>Removal of trigger lag
<LI>Players will automatically switch back to his/her primary weapon after throwing their last grenade or other disposable weapon.
[/list]
As of now, there is no ETA on the release of any of these. More info to follow.

Samuray "Volkan" Copur
Community Manager
ubi.com

Message Edited on 06/26/0310:43AM by Volkan

[XyZspineZyX]

This just in from our friends on the dev team...

Patch 1.3: Two major issues were identified and reproduced after the patch was released:
<ul>
<LI>A server crash related to the arm patches
<LI>Non-working CD-Keys.
[/list]
Both problems are being investigated and a fix will be issued as soon as possible.

Patch 1.4: Development is progressing well on patch 1.4. Many bugs related to the netcode have been solved including reticule lock, zoom staying active, a grenade bug, and players getting stuck in ladders.

Some game improvements have also been made including:
<ul>
<LI>Removal of trigger lag
<LI>Players will automatically switch back to his/her primary weapon after throwing their last grenade or other disposable weapon.
[/list]
As of now, there is no ETA on the release of any of these. More info to follow.

Samuray "Volkan" Copur
Community Manager
ubi.com

Message Edited on 06/26/0310:43AM by Volkan

[XyZspineZyX]

Thankyou vol. Lets hope that this one is a FIX and just a FIX and not a bugged fix

[XyZspineZyX]

No more trigger lag!

Thank you, oh gosh thank you!

[XyZspineZyX]

WHOA!!!! did i stumble into the fantasy RVS forum? I could swear i just saw an update on the direction and contents of the latest RVS patch. lol thats great news volkan thanks for the update altho my problem seems too be that my computer just doesnt like RVS as climbing out of the 30 fps area is like trying too convince myself the fat lady with the goatee might actually be doable with the right makeup and a different hairstyle........ its just not gonna happen.

http://www.radclan.com/dawg4.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

May I suggest that UBI take its time and actually make a significant patch (however many MBs it is; doublt digits I'm thinking) that not only fixes what you have identified, but also other things like FPS and every other thing you guys keep promising is "coming in future patches".

I hate to be negative, but I think you've only got one more chance with the next few patches before people quit this game entirely (those having problems at least).

Do you jobs and earn the money we already gave you.

Thank you for keeping us informed.

Out.

[XyZspineZyX]

We need to know about running a dedicated stand alone server with remote access. I know there are "workarounds" but is this a feature soon to come?

[XyZspineZyX]

Volkan dont let the developers forget about:

-Ladder bug
-Frag sticking to you bug (You throw it far away and it explodes in your pocket)
-Shadows through corners of walls
-Face showing on guns and scope (Picture provided below)
-Full door swings open in segmentations, it should be smoother.
-Silenced guns way too weak (Shooting someone thirty times with no kill)
-Adding Two or more sunlights to a map disables night vision.

Can't think of much at the moment...Oh ya here's that picture I was talking about.

http://www.gwb-clan.com/images/bugss.jpg




Message Edited on 06/26/0305:53PM by Equatis

[XyZspineZyX]

no more trigger lag omg great! i wont get too happy though well have to wait and see i reckon.

good work on getting some important issues started on htough volkan, well done.

http://www.uk-acts.com/asp/acts/z/357.jpg


Bernard says> "Even i can't think of a good swear word to sum up UBI"

[XyZspineZyX]

thanks Volkan...even though the game still has its issues, your updates and consistent presence here greatly bolsters my optimism http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.changingseasonssale.com/john/sig1.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

You haven't been able to reproduce the deploy countdown lockup?????
I thought everyone has experienced that one.

<Center>http://www3.sympatico.ca/gwgreer/blud70.gif <CENTER>

[XyZspineZyX]

sounds promising

[XyZspineZyX]

Thanks Volkan!! That's good news indeed! You are by far the most pro-active forum moderator yet.

I for one, apprciate your communications to the community.

All we ever wanted (aside from the bugs being fixed) was to be kept informed on the status of RvS, good or bad. Good job!



http://home.earthlink.net/~mwtate29/dfnlogo.jpg


"It is the soldier, not the poet, who gives us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the reporter, who gives us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us freedom to protest. It is the soldier who serves beneath the flag, who salutes the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives the demonstrator the right to burn the flag"...Stephen Ambrose

[XyZspineZyX]

Volkan wrote:


- Some game improvements have also been made
- including:


- <LI>Removal of trigger lag

Bloody `ell... someone finally convinced Berlu that trigger lag actually existed ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'll be mightily impressed if you pull that one off. Might actually start playing online regularly again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

volcun u are indeed the supreme rule of the forums. lol

thank u man.

thx a lot.

1 more thing tho, can u ask the dev to plz hurry up with the standalone servers?

lol

these forums are totally different now ever since volcun took charge. good job!

=VD=PeaceKeeper

[XyZspineZyX]

Could the CD-key not working be related to wether or not your on LAN or other kinds of method of connecting on a same connection?

[XyZspineZyX]

The removal of trigger lag?

Just wondering, but what actually caused it? There have been many debates about what causes it, and if its even real or not. Im happy to see that its going to be fixed though!

http://www.frailart.net/members/jackathan/JackathanSig2.jpg

</img>

[XyZspineZyX]

Thank You for the update

[XyZspineZyX]

thats good news about the fixes, but ubi should make sure that they thoroughly test these patches b4 they release them and make sure that they get rid of bugs instead of adding them....

cant wait 4 these updates

[XyZspineZyX]

Jackathan wrote:
- The removal of trigger lag?
-
- Just wondering, but what actually caused it? There
- have been many debates about what causes it, and if
- its even real or not. Im happy to see that its
- going to be fixed though!

The Trigger "Lag" is by design. The only reason it lags for some people is because of poor connections. Under the current system, when the client (YOU) clicks your mouse button, it doesn't register on YOUR system until the message is sent to the server and then back to you. If people remember correctly, the original Half-Life multiplayer worked the same way (before a patch, after a looong time). Aliens vs. Predator 2 also uses this system for multiplayer. With the new patch 1.4, here's how it will work: When you click your mouse button to fire, on YOUR screen it will appear as if your are shooting real-time (makes it easier for clients to play; not so awkward with potential lag). In reality however, those bullets of course still cannot be shot until the server gets the message from your computer. Rainbow Six 1 and Rogue Spear used this system. You will be able to see this by going into a high-ping server, and when you shoot close to a wall you'll notice you hear the shots waaay before the bullet holes appear on the wall.

<font size="1" color="gray">300 W Antec power supply || Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard 1003
2*256 MB PC2700 Crucial DDRAM ( 7 3 3 3 ) || MSI GeForce4 Ti4200 128 MB AGP 4x 43.45
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1333 MHz ( 133 * 10.0 ) || SLK-600 heat sink + Sunon 60 mm fan
Primary IDE: Master - Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 60 GB 7200 RPM HD, Slave - empty
Secondary IDE: Master - Toshiba 40x DVD-ROM, Slave - Plextor 16/10/40A CD-RW
Windows XP Professional SP1a || KDS Visual Sensations VS-195e 19" monitor
Logitech Z-560 400 W 4.1 speakers || ATX Mid Tower case

1024 * 768 * 32 bpp , Highest In-Game Settings , Antialiasing 2x + blur , Anisotrophic Filtering 2x = 30 fps</font>

See My World Ladder Retail Version Rank (http://ladder.ubi.com/index.asp?gamename=RAVENSHIELD&ladderid=0&modeid=0&lan=en&FILTERCHANGE=1&SELECT_ALIAS=EXACT&INPUT_ALIAS=Armed_and_DWI&SELECT_COUNTRY=&SELECT_RATING=EQUAL&INPUT_RATING=&SELECT_KILL=EQUAL&INPUT_KILL=&SELECT_DEATH=EQUAL&INPUT_DEATH=&SELECT_COMBAT=EQUAL&INPUT_COMBAT=&x=25&y=5)

Message Edited on 06/27/0309:49AM by Witness

[XyZspineZyX]

Armed_and_DWI wrote:
- uses this system for multiplayer. With the new
- patch 1.4, here's how it will work:

How do you know this? Or are you guessing.

[XyZspineZyX]

MD_Sennet wrote:
- Armed_and_DWI wrote:
-- uses this system for multiplayer. With the new
-- patch 1.4, here's how it will work:
-
- How do you know this? Or are you guessing.
-
-

I'm an avid multiplayer gamer, and I know that there are only 2 such systems. So if patch 1.3 and < used the first system I spoke of, then when Volkan says "no more trigger lag" he can only be talking about the other system [the Rogue Spear-style hit detection system)

<font size="1" color="gray">300 W Antec power supply || Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard 1003
2*256 MB PC2700 Crucial DDRAM ( 7 3 3 3 ) || MSI GeForce4 Ti4200 128 MB AGP 4x 43.45
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1333 MHz ( 133 * 10.0 ) || SLK-600 heat sink + Sunon 60 mm fan
Primary IDE: Master - Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 60 GB 7200 RPM HD, Slave - empty
Secondary IDE: Master - Toshiba 40x DVD-ROM, Slave - Plextor 16/10/40A CD-RW
Windows XP Professional SP1a || KDS Visual Sensations VS-195e 19" monitor
Logitech Z-560 400 W 4.1 speakers || ATX Mid Tower case

1024 * 768 * 32 bpp , Highest In-Game Settings , Antialiasing 2x + blur , Anisotrophic Filtering 2x = 30 fps</font>

See My World Ladder Retail Version Rank (http://ladder.ubi.com/index.asp?gamename=RAVENSHIELD&ladderid=0&modeid=0&lan=en&FILTERCHANGE=1&SELECT_ALIAS=EXACT&INPUT_ALIAS=Armed_and_DWI&SELECT_COUNTRY=&SELECT_RATING=EQUAL&INPUT_RATING=&SELECT_KILL=EQUAL&INPUT_KILL=&SELECT_DEATH=EQUAL&INPUT_DEATH=&SELECT_COMBAT=EQUAL&INPUT_COMBAT=&x=25&y=5)

[XyZspineZyX]

woohooo /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
we're get'n there, thanx for the update...

http://www.samoanonion.com
http://www.samoanonion.com/images/sig002.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

Armed_and_DWI wrote:
- I'm an avid multiplayer gamer, and I know that there
- are only 2 such systems. So if patch 1.3 and < used
- the first system I spoke of, then when Volkan says
- "no more trigger lag" he can only be talking about
- the other system (the Rogue Spear-style hit
- detection system)

So in other words, you are guessing.

[XyZspineZyX]

It's not that he's guessing, it's that there aren't many possible ways of doing things. If you have a 200ms ping, then no matter what UBI does to their code, it's going to take around 200ms for your computer to tell the server that you fired a shot. It then takes time for the server to confirm that, yes, you have fired a shot. The way the system works now, your computer doesn't show you shooting until it has received the confirmation. This is what creates the 'trigger lag'. The way that most games work is that the moment you fire your gun, your computer displays the gun-shot animation and sounds, even though the fact that you've shot hasn't yet been registered by the server. This is the only system that doesn't have trigger lag, and it's the system that most games use. It's not that there's really any less lag, it's just that it's much harder for the player to realize how much they're lagging, because on their computer, they are shooting the moment they fire the gun. The bullets simply won't hit the enemy for another 100ms or so.

That being said, there are also issues with the RvS netcode which make the lag problem worse.


MD_Sennet wrote:
-
- So in other words, you are guessing.

[XyZspineZyX]

how on earth do i get mad trigger lag with 31-47 ping from a stacked server running multiple xeons then?

[XyZspineZyX]

Armed and DWI, I disagree. The difference between server and client-side netcode does not explain the "trigger lag" effect of RVS adequately.

Trigger lag is a fluctuating problem; it isn't always present when one pulls the trigger. The shot delay in games using server-side netcode (UT2k3, RVS) is consistent with your ping (or should be in theory).

Unreal Tournament 2003's multiplayer shot delay is very consistent with your ping. Unreal Tournament uses an updated (read: FIXED AND OPTIMIZED) version of the unreal engine, v2199. Raven Shield uses an early beta version (modified, obviously, by the UBI devs) of the same engine, v927 I believe.

I have on numerous occasions started a round out by killing a few opponents with consistent responsiveness from the server. In other words, my gun fired promptly (or as promptly as it gets for 56k). Then, within the space of a few seconds, I find my gun refuses to shoot for sometimes more than a second. THIS is trigger lag, NOT the server-side netcode.

Server-side netcode is the way to go; it has numerous advantages over client-side code such as the HL/CS code. Server-side is fairer, safer, and more precise. Even players with pings of 250 or higher can play successfully by learning their specific latency and adjusting their aim accordingly (IF the latency is reasonably STABLE: Raven Shield's problem).

Server-side netcode, however, is more unforgiving and allows general network and connection instability to be noticed more easily. Therefore it may APPEAR that the game lags more than it actually does, because many of you (me included) are used to playing client-side games that ESTIMATE what is going on at the server. With server-side code you get to see what is ACTUALLY happening in the game.

That being said, Raven Shield still performs terribly in the MP aspect. The problem is that during gameplay, latencies fluctuate wildly or are noticeably inconsistent for many players. This was a direct result of UBI's decision to cut costs by purchasing the license for an unfinished beta engine (albeit a very promising one) from Epic/DE to make the game with. This decision is also consistent with the many other problems the game has had since release.

Hopefully, software developers will learn from this fiasco and avoid using a third-party engine that has not been fixed, optimized, and proven on the market and by gamers themselves, as the Q3A engine was.




http://theplatoon.com/ravenshield/images/armpatches/burawura.jpg

Prowlin'!

Message Edited on 06/27/03â 05:23AM by Burawura

Message Edited on 06/27/0306:54AM by Burawura

[XyZspineZyX]

Is it just me, or is the idea that my operative MUST ready a second frag before going back to his primary weapon a totally ******ed idea?

I'm /not/ a SpecOps person IRL, but I know damn well that if I wanted to throw ONE GRENADE and then switch to my rifle, my BRAIN would figure out that there was NO NEED to ready a second grenade first.

What is so hard to comprehend about that?

They strive for realism, yet my operative can't figure how to switch from one item to another without readying it fully?

-Jason

[XyZspineZyX]

does anyone know what unreal engine version america's army uses? there's almost 0 trigger lag in that game and the netcode can actually calculate bullet speed. now that's what i call good netcode.

[XyZspineZyX]

great things, but where are news about dedicated linux server... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

Armed_and_DWI wrote:

- The Trigger "Lag" is by
- design. The only reason it lags for some people is
- because of poor connections. Under the current
- system, when the client (YOU) clicks your mouse
- button, it doesn't register on YOUR system until the
- message is sent to the server and then back to you.
- If people remember correctly, the original Half-Life
- multiplayer worked the same way (before a patch,
- after a looong time). Aliens vs. Predator 2 also
- uses this system for multiplayer. With the new
- patch 1.4, here's how it will work: When you click
- your mouse button to fire, on YOUR screen it will
- appear as if your are shooting real-time (makes it
- easier for clients to play; not so awkward with
- potential lag). In reality however, those bullets
- of course still cannot be shot until the server gets
- the message from your computer. Rainbow Six 1 and
- Rogue Spear used this system. You will be able to
- see this by going into a high-ping server, and when
- you shoot close to a wall you'll notice you hear the
- shots waaay before the bullet holes appear on the
- wall.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif First of all Trigger Lag is not by design - serverside ballistics is - Trigger Lag is an unfortunate biproduct.

The lag you get would something like :

Client latency+ping+server latency+ping+client latency.

This leaves ample room for the problem to be in either the client or server RvS code. There has been loads of documentation that Trigger Lag can occur even on a low ping connection.

I personally reduced my Trigger Lag by a number of tweaks to my own PC - so for me it was a client problem.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif What Armed_and_DWI is suggesting is BS - it is nothing more than covering up the Trigger Lag - it has nothing to do with fixing it. If the only thing UBI did was to change the game so the you get firing animations and sound when you press the trigger - the ppl with trigger lag would still get killed first - cuz they are not firing the first â½-1 sec after the press the trigger.

That would be an unacceptable solution to the problem./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif By the way Volkan keep up the good work, it is great that you keep us informed./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers TT

OS: Windows XP Professional SP1 DX 9.0a
CPU: Athlon Barton XP 3000+
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X
RAM: Corsair CAS 2 512MB PC2700 DDR
Video Card: ATI Radeon 9700 Pro Rev 3.0 Omegadive Modified CAT 3.4
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy2
Mouse: Logitech MX700 : Mouseware 9.76

Message Edited on 06/27/0311:12AM by Turbo_tiger

[XyZspineZyX]

It's been said many times before, but thanks for the update, doubly so on the details. I'd be curious to see how the trigger lag was fixed too.


I have to comment on the server side/client side debate going on as well.. I don't see how the Half Life system can be viewed as unfair. To me it's the height of net code evolution, something that no other game has come close to. Quake 3 was pathetic in comparison, it made no attempt to compensate for lag and as such for modem players such as myself (at the time) the rail gun was completely useless, unless my opponents were standing still. It felt like it hesitated for at least a second before firing at times, but I couldn't have had more than a 200ms ping.
Yet a mod for Quake3 somehow modified the netcode to add some form of lag compensation and suddenly made one shot kill games playable even to modem players.

I honestly don't think Ubi has any plans to do that sort of an overhaul to the game's netcode. And I can't really say I think they should have to. It'd be nice, and it WOULD get some visciously loyal fans, look at the fan base for Half Life, even just CS, at one point in time it had more on-line players than all of Q3 and UT combined. But that's a major overhaul, not just a matter of patching a few bugs. And it's not like the series is known for excellent net coding.. anyone remember the tangos endlessly running into walls from Rogue Spear? For all its faults the current net code IS an improvement, and I've seen what looked like modem players playing very well so the net code can't be too limiting to high ping players.

[XyZspineZyX]

1.4

1.Removal of trigger lag

dont get it too much..but great for 56kers

2.Players will automatically switch back to his/her primary weapon after throwing their last grenade or other disposable weapon.

What are you thinking !!! you must be jokeing...pls dont bother...It is only acceptable if its an option...Just say NO to auto switch to primary.

Anybody want this silly auto thing? I can only see it being more trouble than its worth.

Ubi I am absolutely baffled as to why this is a priority for 1.4 ?

[XyZspineZyX]

Not a big deal... Its only switched after throwing last gren/flash/smoke...

But one wonder how many hours a thing like that takes to code?! 0.95? With all respect: the 'tweaks' aren't exactly advanced...?


The 'removal of triggerlag' will make the gap between your head and what is happening on the screen less prominent... But i doubt that bullets fired during this timespan will be 'accounted' for... I suspect they will be lost in cyberspace... The optimism i used to feel for this game has slowly worn down. It was released in march, right?
And now there is an official poll at the official forums that wonders if "Fixing "Demo" Bugs that still exist" is important? LOL!!!! Amazing. Well, happy gaming to u all.

http://w1.181.telia.com/~u18112108/mesk_ava/meska_04.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

Burawura wrote:
- Armed and DWI, I disagree. The difference between
- server and client-side netcode does not explain the
- "trigger lag" effect of RVS adequately.
- Trigger lag is a fluctuating problem; it isn't
- always present when one pulls the trigger. The shot
- delay in games using server-side netcode (UT2k3,
- RVS) is consistent with your ping (or should be in
- theory).

Since I don't have this problem, I didn't realize that it is a fluctuating problem as you say. I still cannot imagine the fluctuation of trigger lag without fluctuation in ping also (lag spikes).</font>

- Unreal Tournament 2003's multiplayer shot delay is
- very consistent with your ping. Unreal Tournament
- uses an updated (read: FIXED AND OPTIMIZED) version
- of the unreal engine, v2199. Raven Shield uses an
- early beta version (modified, obviously, by the UBI
- devs) of the same engine, v927 I believe.
-
- I have on numerous occasions started a round out by
- killing a few opponents with consistent
- responsiveness from the server. In other words, my
- gun fired promptly (or as promptly as it gets for
- 56k). Then, within the space of a few seconds, I
- find my gun refuses to shoot for sometimes more than
- a second. THIS is trigger lag, NOT the server-side
- netcode.

Again, I still think this must be an inconsistencty in the server you play on or your internet connection; because again, I do not have this problem. I'm not saying that you're configuration is unique; Raven Shield SHOULD be able to overcome and insonsistencies for stable gameplay, just like other games can, like UT2003.</font>

- Server-side netcode is the way to go; it has
- numerous advantages over client-side code such as
- the HL/CS code. Server-side is fairer, safer, and
- more precise. Even players with pings of 250 or
- higher can play successfully by learning their
- specific latency and adjusting their aim accordingly
- (IF the latency is reasonably STABLE: Raven Shield's
- problem).

I agree. It's just better this way for clients. More fair for dialup users, and users with inconsistent connections.</font>



<font size="1" color="gray">300 W Antec power supply || Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard 1003
2*256 MB PC2700 Crucial DDRAM ( 7 3 3 3 ) || MSI GeForce4 Ti4200 128 MB AGP 4x 43.45
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1333 MHz ( 133 * 10.0 ) || SLK-600 heat sink + Sunon 60 mm fan
Primary IDE: Master - Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 60 GB 7200 RPM HD, Slave - empty
Secondary IDE: Master - Toshiba 40x DVD-ROM, Slave - Plextor 16/10/40A CD-RW
Windows XP Professional SP1a || KDS Visual Sensations VS-195e 19" monitor
Logitech Z-560 400 W 4.1 speakers || ATX Mid Tower case

1024 * 768 * 32 bpp , Highest In-Game Settings , Antialiasing 2x + blur , Anisotrophic Filtering 2x = 30 fps</font>

See My World Ladder Retail Version Rank (http://ladder.ubi.com/index.asp?gamename=RAVENSHIELD&ladderid=0&modeid=0&lan=en&FILTERCHANGE=1&SELECT_ALIAS=EXACT&INPUT_ALIAS=Armed_and_DWI&SELECT_COUNTRY=&SELECT_RATING=EQUAL&INPUT_RATING=&SELECT_KILL=EQUAL&INPUT_KILL=&SELECT_DEATH=EQUAL&INPUT_DEATH=&SELECT_COMBAT=EQUAL&INPUT_COMBAT=&x=25&y=5)


Can you please stop "shouting" with the large text, Armed? Thanks. -Witness

Message Edited on 06/27/0309:56AM by Witness

[XyZspineZyX]

SO MANY PROMISSES, AND ALL WE GET ARE BUGS...

(after 1 month of beta testing......)

[XyZspineZyX]

Just bumping an old post from 06/27/03 so i can say:
What did I tell ya? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


meska wrote:

- The 'removal of triggerlag' will make the gap
- between your head and what is happening on the
- screen less prominent... But i doubt that bullets
- fired during this timespan will be 'accounted'
- for... I suspect they will be lost in cyberspace...


http://w1.181.telia.com/~u18112108/mesk_ava/meska_04.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

yeah right, thats all fixed.