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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:16 PM
Someone asked a question in the --- Patch 1.3 Issues Addressed --- thread that I wanted to respond to but couldn't because I didn't want it to get buried in the thread so I'm posting it here.

The question was, basically, "How long does Ubi Soft plan to support Raven Shield?"...

Well...I'm certain we'll continue to crank out patches at least until the game is relatively stable, meaning, most of you have little or no problems with it - there's no way we can guarantee 100% stability for everyone who bought a copy. That's an extremely unrealistic expection for any piece of PC software (Hey I'm just being honest, sorry if the statement upsets you).

Beyond that...it's really a question of what the demand is like. As with any title, if enough people are still playing Raven Shield in a 1 year, 2 years, or even 3 years and if the community continues to stay strong and thrive, I see no reason why our support (support meaning patches to improve gameplay, etc..) can't go on indefinitely. So in short, it really depends on all of you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Samuray "Volkan" Copur
Community Manager
ubi.com

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:16 PM
Someone asked a question in the --- Patch 1.3 Issues Addressed --- thread that I wanted to respond to but couldn't because I didn't want it to get buried in the thread so I'm posting it here.

The question was, basically, "How long does Ubi Soft plan to support Raven Shield?"...

Well...I'm certain we'll continue to crank out patches at least until the game is relatively stable, meaning, most of you have little or no problems with it - there's no way we can guarantee 100% stability for everyone who bought a copy. That's an extremely unrealistic expection for any piece of PC software (Hey I'm just being honest, sorry if the statement upsets you).

Beyond that...it's really a question of what the demand is like. As with any title, if enough people are still playing Raven Shield in a 1 year, 2 years, or even 3 years and if the community continues to stay strong and thrive, I see no reason why our support (support meaning patches to improve gameplay, etc..) can't go on indefinitely. So in short, it really depends on all of you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Samuray "Volkan" Copur
Community Manager
ubi.com

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:21 PM
Great news then cos RvS will be played for a long time to come , with all the new maps e.t.c

Thanks for posts like this Volkan it really gives us confidence that UBI are trying there best to fix the game and make everyone happy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Message Edited on 06/19/0307:23PM by Xeo.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:36 PM
I sure hope that support continues... I have several other games and they were all short lived. I am upset about spending good money for something and when you just settle in, something else comes out and there goes the support, patches and addon's. I hope that after all the time spent in the demo... and all the improvements that have taken place, UBI stands behind their product and continues the work.. I for 1 am understanding of what you guys are doing and you have my support. -CqS- HITMAN

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Message Edited on 06/19/0307:37PM by voodoo39

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:51 PM
<Bump>

Just needs to be read by all! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:59 PM
It also depends on UBI not alienating the entire RvS gaming community by poor service and lack of quick updates/fixes. UBI being here and posting though is a step in the right direction and UBI adopting PB was great as well. The next step is to release some patches that really get this game running top notch.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 09:59 PM
In order for comunity to play for long time the game witht he release has to be good

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:39 PM
Philipz wrote:
- It also depends on UBI not alienating the entire RvS
- gaming community by poor service and lack of quick
- updates/fixes

That works both ways as well. What about the community alienating UBI with all the flaming and disrespect going on in the forums? One of these days someone is gonna hit a nerve and UBI could just say the hell with us, they made a profit and they wash their hands of the game.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:50 PM
I've noticed a drop in numbers the past few nights signing onto ubi... and I've seen a lot of people declaring that they're done with RvS on these forums. Hopefully ubi can remedy this. I'd hate to see such a great game so short-lived.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:54 PM
TCF_Kram wrote:
-
- Philipz wrote:
-- It also depends on UBI not alienating the entire RvS
-- gaming community by poor service and lack of quick
-- updates/fixes
-
- That works both ways as well. What about the
- community alienating UBI with all the flaming and
- disrespect going on in the forums? One of these days
- someone is gonna hit a nerve and UBI could just say
- the hell with us, they made a profit and they wash
- their hands of the game.

There's a lot of legitimate flaming going on here as Volkan said, "The flaming and ranting doesn't bother me because, quite frankly, we deserve it." As far as disrespecting is concerned their are people that haven't been so kind in their posts making them somewhat unconstructive, but you have to remember people are upset with this games poor performance and lack of support (patches and communications). If UBI wants respect they need to earn it. Releasing patches that cause server crashes are not the way to do it.

It's not uncommon that the strongest critic is also the best customer.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:04 PM
How long will Ubisoft pay Punkbuster for to keep rvs cheat free?

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:56 PM
Volkan wrote:
- So in short, it really depends on all of you


Releasing the modding tools (SDK), could really help some of us keep this game alive. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Has there been an update on that yet?

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UBI, RELEASE THE SDK!!!

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:59 PM
I'm reposting this here for everyone to read because I think it addresses a lot of the feelings of why there is so much negativity surrounding RvS and it's release.

It's long, but if you take the time to read it then hopefully you'll see why it is important that I post it on this thread as it seems more appropriate since we are currently discussing the "two way street" of company/community respect and support.

------------------------------------------------------------
Nafarias wrote:
- It should also clearly illustrate to us all that we
- are dealing with a beta program folks and Ubisoft
- knew it when it was released. No slops to you
- Volkan - wasn't your fault - but it is official now.
- We got screwed and Ubisoft laughed all the way to
- the bank. The engine is an OLD build of Unreal and
- it is obviously so sloppily coded and hopelessly
- riddled with bug & other problems that even the dev
- team is having a hard time fixing anything.
-
-
- We may just have to relegate ourselves to what the
- characters in that movie did at one point. "Is
- this as good as it gets?" Maybe so. Sadly.

With all due respect to Volkan... I don't think anyone from the Berlu to even the Mods (who everyone knows don't work for UBI) are ever going to come out and say this game was a beta release...

Although, most of us knew it once we bought it. Plain and simple.

And for all the fanboys/girls out there...

I am glad your game works. Truly. I am. But for a large, vocal majority who are taking the time out to post here in the hopes these bugs are fixed it does NOT work properly or at acceptable levels and this is because it is a beta program, plain and simple.

Like others, I can not in good conscience recommend this game to anyone in its current state.

What is worse is that this game has the terrible reputation in the online MP gaming channels as well as far as recommendations, questions about performance, etc, etc.

My question to Volkan is this (and it is a rhetorical question):

How is UBI going to live this down? Can they ever come back?

I think they can -- beleive it or not -- But what that is going to take probably isn't in the budget or even a top priority for them (UBI) given the Xbox version and Athena Sword... Which is the saddest part of all because underneath the beta programming is a great game that not only would be a fine addition to the R6, Tom Clancy franchise, but a great tactical shooter (both MP and SP) for fans who want something more than run-and-gun Quake/Couter-Strike style games.

This is why people are so passionate about the game -- Even those like me who are labled "whiners" and such.

We LIKE the game and WANT IT to live up to its potential.

However, that just isn't happening and this is when you get disgruntled and disatisfied customers instead of loyal and enthusiastic customers which is what UBI still needs to learn, apparently.

Even though nobody asked, I personally think the only thing that UBI can do at this point (since they won't refund anyone's money, realistically) is start over.

Yeah. Start over.

We basically have version 1.0 of Raven Shield regardless of the patches that have been released for both SP and MP (more SP in my opinion) so, why not just sit down and FIX the problems with this game in one fell swoop (or a couple of major "swoops") to get the game out of the beta stage to wehre a majority of everyone playing has an acceptable level of decent performance both on and off line with regards to FPS, bugs and other things.

Not only would this benefit those of us who are having problems with the game, obviously, but for those who's games run fine for them, it should only enhance their experience in the long run.

Everybody wins. Period.

But again, this ISN'T HAPPENING for some reason and that is why everyone is so upset and feels like they were ripped off as far as their initial purchase goes.

I mean, I know I don't work for UBI or design software, but I am aware of all the bureaucracy that exists when developing and releasing a major gaming title...

BUT HOW FRICKIN' HARD IS IT TO ADDRESS THINGS THAT EXISTED IN THE DEMOS BEFORE THE RETAIL WAS EVEN RELEASED?

This is the heart of why people are bashing UBI and to some extent this game as a whole -- and like you said, Volkan, rightfully so.

It really is.

And the motivating factor behind that reason is what I said earlier: Everyone wants to play this game and wants it to live up to its potential.

I know that we're never going to hear an official blurb rom UBI of the Devs on this...

But I for one would actually like UBI Soft or the Devs to just come out and say, "Hey. We screwed up. RvS is a beta program. It was rushed out the door. We're sorry that it didn't live up to the expectations of the R6 series...

But we're also hard at work trying to rework the game and do major patches that will essentially re-release the game in an acceptable state ALONG WITH new maps, gametypes and other improvements".

To me, this would be the only acceptable way for UBI to redeem themselves in the eyes of not only the R6 community, but also the general gaming community as a whole as far as future purchases of games by UBI.

Yeah. I know.

Fat chance, right?

I'm living in some fantasy world. I know that

BUT let me tell you something else:

The Games industry may be a multi-billion dollar business on the development side of things -- which only UBI is concerned with, obviously...

But on the consumer end, the gaming industry is made up of the COMMUNITIES that form around a well made game and not vice versa.

In other words, on the consumer end -- which is where your loyal customers and REPEAT SALES primarily come from (as well as new sales generated by word-of-mouth) -- The games industry is a huge PR business. Plain and simple.

UBI has demonstrated (at this point) they have NO IDEA how to properly conduct after-sales support or general communications with its customers (the community who bought the game).

In addition, what makes what has happened (is happening) doubly worse for UBI is that had RvS been released in a genuine 1.0 or 1.1 state (few bugs; good FPS; good netcode; etc, etc.) I don't think there would be as many disgruntled customers as there are now and I also think that RvS and UBI would have a better reputation among gamers as a whole as well. Truly.

Here is a concrete example of actually admitting your mistakes and why it helps in the long run as far as the public relation side of things go:

Digitalo Studios, who released essentially an alpha version of the game "Devastation" as a retail release FINALLY admitted it was a rushed game and that they knew what went wrong with it and are now (hopefully) going to rectify it and FIX the game for all those who bought it.

Now, granted, "Devastation" is pretty much dead because of the fact it was an alpha version, was released to early, and like RvS, people felt they were "duped" out of their money which gave "Devasation" the same bad reputation as RvS currently has...

But from a purely business perspective, the fact Digitalo came out (on their official forums) and said they knew it wasn't a "good" release actually gives them more points than UBI in my book -- and respect as a consumer -- for the simple fact that I as a customer aren't waiting until the end of time for them to acknowledge that the game sucks (more or less) and it gives me hope that they are actually going to try and improve the game because just like RvS, "Devastation" could be a fun game if all the bugs were ironed out... Which they might actually be.

So what's my point in all this?

Give your disgrunteld and anxious customers some hope and for those that are too far "gone" or have lost faith a sense of CLOSURE so they can move on and for those who are already loyal, help keep them loyal with good communications and an honest effort to improve the product (game) so they don't feel like the company just "took the money and ran".

Peace /i/smilies/16x16_man-happy.gif
------------------------------------------------------------





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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 07:51 AM
You write allot and allot of truth (I read all of that!!!).

By the way is it a beta engine?

I guess it makes sence that it could be, but I will keep an open mind to all possibillities.

Much insight to UBI, but it's there choice to agree with you and show that they do. It would be nice if they did. They would take a big risk in doing that, and they probably don't want to. If they dont say it, but they continue to try and fix it and eventually succeed what would your respect for them be?

Lying is dangerous

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:56 AM
Unreal Engine 927 is an early "beta" version of the Unreal Engine (I don't know specifically if it is Unreal Warefare or not).

This was the same engine the leaked UT2003 demo that appeared all over the net last summer was based on before the official release (fall) version the game initial stared on which was in the quadruple digits as far as engine versions and revisions go.

As far as respecting UBI at this point...

Honestly, I would rather they actually come out and say that they rushed this game out to meet a deadline with KNOWN bugs in it that should have been squashed before it went to Gold print(ing) and that there may be no real way to fix the game and make it "more than it is" (in its current state) because they need to license a newer version of the engine and/or the tech support that comes with that license*

*It is my understanding that depending on the terms of the license agreement that developers agree to, updates and tech support from Epic may not necessarily be included even though each license fee is around $1,000,000 or more per engine version. If I am wrong, please. Someone correct me...

At least if they did that -- which again, I know is not going to happen in any way, shape or form -- I think it would give a lot of people who feel they had their $50 "ripped off" a fair amount of closure to where they would still be angry for losing their money... But at least they wouldn't be holding out on some false hope of the game actually being fixed and performing at the level it should have been when it was released.

Now, as for your other question regarding if UBI doesn't come out and state exactly what went wrong, but do actually, eventually fix the game...

I think it's a "lost cause" at this point from a PR perspecitve at least in that what is killing this game isn't the game itself even though it is in pretty bad shape from a technical standpoint.

What is "killing" RvS is the image of UBI not giving a damn about releasing an unfinished product and only making that product worse with each subequent patch release.. Which, in and of themselves, don't amount to much as far as real support while simoltaneously having the "arrogance" of releasing an expansion/add on when the core game itself doesn't work adequately.

UBI has no credibility in a lot of gamers minds including, but not limited to those who not only play RvS, (R6) games, but gamers in general regarding UBI's latest effort which was in fact IS the release and handling of RvS.

Put another way, "the buzz on the street" among gamers concerning RvS is not good and that is based purely on the technical aspects instead of the gameplay aspects that most gamers base their future purchasing decisions on (does it run well? What is the support by the company who relesaed the game? Yaddah, yaddah, yaddah).

UBI needs to redeem itself after the condition it released RvS in, in addition to the subsequent "screw ups" that each patch keeps adding to both the game and their "street rep" of bieng a company who takes people's hard earned money and then just leaves them with a shoddy, half-functional game in the end.

The whole basis for why a lot of people are officially quitting RvS after this patch -- and there ARE a lot regardless of what the fanboys/girls will tell you -- Is not because of the game itself (as far as gameplay goes; not technically speaking) is bad... But because of the fact that UBI has no credibility left in these people's minds whatsoever.

That means even if UBI does come out and say they are trying to fix things it's "too little too late" and a majority of people are chosing to just live with the fact they lost $50 with this particular game/purchase and move onto to hopefully better products that are released in better states with better after-sales support.

And if this seems unfair to UBI... We have to remember that consumers who bought this game PAID their hard earned money for it which means that the consumers have a RIGHT to expect the product to at least function out of the box.

And before the fanboy flames start up... Technically, RvS does "function" out of the box, but on a vast majority of people it doesn't function at acceptable levels and this is inexcusable for the simple fact a lot of these issues had already been identified in the free MP demo that nobody had to pay for and were assumed to be fixed in the final retail release that everyone DID pay for.

The fact that tons of "show stopping" bugs were brought to UBI's attention in the MP Demo months in advance of RvS going retail makes me believe they (UBI and the Devs) had already signed off on the final "retail" version of RvS the way it was and were just hoping that the bugs people found -- and/or were finding in the MP Demo as the game was being printed -- Literally wouldn't be there in the final retail release via the old "If nobody spots it, it dosen't exist" form of deinal because even if those problems did exist in the final version... It'd be too late to pull all the printed copies and fix them now wouldn't it?

And that is basically my whole point in trying to put these issues on the table for all of us to think about since they really haven't been addressed in this manner before.




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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 07:58 PM
I understand and agree with you. They have given themselves another chance and so have some of us. So if they do care they are now paying for it. They not only stole money but peoples faith and respect as well. They will probably get money selling copies to stores but if no one cares to buy from stores, the stores will have the same amount of faith in UBI as us. Unless the stores can be as closed minded as some people at UBI then they wont buy any more copies from UBI anymore. Maybe i'm wrong in saying some but im using the last bit of kidness that I have. So they will eventually pay for a mistake and hopefully learn from one.

By the way you and me are the only ones to post now. So I also posted purposley for it to be on top and others to read.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:10 PM
...i would like UBI more if SDK was released...That is still a priority right?

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:57 AM
TCF_Kram wrote:
-
- Philipz wrote:
-- It also depends on UBI not alienating the entire RvS
-- gaming community by poor service and lack of quick
-- updates/fixes
-
- That works both ways as well. What about the
- community alienating UBI with all the flaming and
- disrespect going on in the forums? One of these days
- someone is gonna hit a nerve and UBI could just say
- the hell with us, they made a profit and they wash
- their hands of the game.
-


So consumers are supposed to be the one kissing butt. That is not how it works. I will gladly give them the opportunity to show that they are trying, but if they don't earn back my confidence.. then there is always another game.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:09 AM
Wow, i'd like to thank Volkan for answering my question.



Edit: Whoops, this is UG_Tru, im on a friends computer right now

Message Edited on 06/21/0303:10AM by Kamino1

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:15 AM
Volkan wrote:
- Someone asked a question in the --- Patch 1.3 Issues
- Addressed --- thread that I wanted to respond to but
- couldn't because I didn't want it to get buried in
- the thread so I'm posting it here.
-
- The question was, basically, "How long does Ubi Soft
- plan to support Raven Shield?"...
-
- Well...I'm certain we'll continue to crank out
- patches at least until the game is relatively
- stable, meaning, most of you have little or no
- problems with it - there's no way we can guarantee
- 100% stability for everyone who bought a copy.
- That's an extremely unrealistic expection for any
- piece of PC software (Hey I'm just being honest,
- sorry if the statement upsets you).
-
- Beyond that...it's really a question of what the
- demand is like. As with any title, if enough people
- are still playing Raven Shield in a 1 year, 2 years,
- or even 3 years and if the community continues to
- stay strong and thrive, I see no reason why our
- support (support meaning patches to improve
- gameplay, etc..) can't go on indefinitely. So in
- short, it really depends on all of you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Samuray "Volkan" Copur
- Community Manager
- ubi.com

If you release the stand alone dedicated Windows and Linux servers. This game will take off for sure.




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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:08 AM
I quess its coming to an end then huh?

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:26 AM
I was stoked to see this post until I realized that it was so old..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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