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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:16 AM
This is my first post on this forum

Goddamit. I wait years for a game to come out and take the place of dog-crap counter-strike, and the guys of raibow six fudged it up again. You see, I never even played the full Raven Shield game, and neither do I intend to in the future. I just took all my conclusions from playing the demo, from which I realized that the people from ubisoft are NEVER going to learn. They comit the same mistakes from the original Raibow Six and Rogue Spear over and over again. What I am talking about and seems to be a taboo among most conservative RS fans; is the dynamic factor of a game. I mean, movement and stuff.
It is very probable that a lot of you reading this right now are thinking "What does he want RS to become counterstrike where people enter rooms shooting while jumping 3 feet into the air?!" If you thought this I say no, smacktard. It just happens that there are many things in RS that if changed, would increase the arcade level of the game AND the realism altogether. Here´s some ideas:

1-Why does it take 5 minutes for the guy to go from a prone position to standing up? Is he really fat? Damn, if I where proning someplace and suddenly I noticed that I was about to be pinned down and shot, I´d get up as fast as you can blink, no matter how much weight I was carrying. Instead of "stance up" and "stance down" commands, there should only be duck and prone, like every other game where it works perfectly. On another issue, why can your character only sway something like 30 degrees while proning? I know that if you´re proning you have to slightly change position to face something on your, say, 3 or 9 o´clock, but if your life depends on it you won´t mind "slightly changing position".

2-Why can the guy only strafe slowly? It is better to think of strafing as walking or running while facing sideways, instead of walking sideways, which is stupid and nobody does in RL. This also counts for crouching. It might be hard to walk in any direction while crouching, but if push comes to shove you´ll do it as fast as you can run in RL. I cannot count the amount of times I´ve been shot by an NPC because your character moves like a ****** unless he´s running straight forwards.

3-Even running sucks. Perhaps the game would be better if it adopted the system in dod, where you have a slow walk, a jog and a "run for your life", in which you can´t fire.

4-Other than that, I´d say that the only other thing that REALLY bugs me is when you get stuck on walls and door thresholds, you all know the feeling. I know, I know, The game limits your movement the bulkier your weapon is, but I think there are better ways to do this, ways which don´t make you feel so impotent.

That´s about it. I am absolutely sure that if these few suggestions were abided, the game would improve 100%; and this is not a question of opinion, it´s true I grant you. Just my hope that someday we can have a decent counter-terrorism game, and get rid of counter-strike.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:16 AM
This is my first post on this forum

Goddamit. I wait years for a game to come out and take the place of dog-crap counter-strike, and the guys of raibow six fudged it up again. You see, I never even played the full Raven Shield game, and neither do I intend to in the future. I just took all my conclusions from playing the demo, from which I realized that the people from ubisoft are NEVER going to learn. They comit the same mistakes from the original Raibow Six and Rogue Spear over and over again. What I am talking about and seems to be a taboo among most conservative RS fans; is the dynamic factor of a game. I mean, movement and stuff.
It is very probable that a lot of you reading this right now are thinking "What does he want RS to become counterstrike where people enter rooms shooting while jumping 3 feet into the air?!" If you thought this I say no, smacktard. It just happens that there are many things in RS that if changed, would increase the arcade level of the game AND the realism altogether. Here´s some ideas:

1-Why does it take 5 minutes for the guy to go from a prone position to standing up? Is he really fat? Damn, if I where proning someplace and suddenly I noticed that I was about to be pinned down and shot, I´d get up as fast as you can blink, no matter how much weight I was carrying. Instead of "stance up" and "stance down" commands, there should only be duck and prone, like every other game where it works perfectly. On another issue, why can your character only sway something like 30 degrees while proning? I know that if you´re proning you have to slightly change position to face something on your, say, 3 or 9 o´clock, but if your life depends on it you won´t mind "slightly changing position".

2-Why can the guy only strafe slowly? It is better to think of strafing as walking or running while facing sideways, instead of walking sideways, which is stupid and nobody does in RL. This also counts for crouching. It might be hard to walk in any direction while crouching, but if push comes to shove you´ll do it as fast as you can run in RL. I cannot count the amount of times I´ve been shot by an NPC because your character moves like a ****** unless he´s running straight forwards.

3-Even running sucks. Perhaps the game would be better if it adopted the system in dod, where you have a slow walk, a jog and a "run for your life", in which you can´t fire.

4-Other than that, I´d say that the only other thing that REALLY bugs me is when you get stuck on walls and door thresholds, you all know the feeling. I know, I know, The game limits your movement the bulkier your weapon is, but I think there are better ways to do this, ways which don´t make you feel so impotent.

That´s about it. I am absolutely sure that if these few suggestions were abided, the game would improve 100%; and this is not a question of opinion, it´s true I grant you. Just my hope that someday we can have a decent counter-terrorism game, and get rid of counter-strike.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:21 AM
I agree with everything but number 2. Its imposable to strafe fast and not trip. Its also imposable to strafe and be accurate.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 08:53 AM
Agree with all. You didn't get the meat tho.
WHY WOULD CT's NOT wear ANY KEVLAR? (in mp)
BTW the full game sux...don't get it, you made a right decision.

<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 09:32 AM
if you strafe a little bit slower u have a better aim !

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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 01:01 PM
ok u are an idiot.


1. u have a lot of equipment on u plus ur weapons which is in ur hands not on ur bakc when ur doing this. thus is is interesting to do that in real life. be happy it does it at all

2. u try strafing really fast with gear. and not fall once? do that in real life u wouldnt kill the enmy from bullets but from laughing when u smack ur butt on the ground

3. runnign is good. to late to change it anyway so deal with it,

4. the game shoudl limit ur weapon the bulker it is. it would in real life a lot more than the game shows



u are thinking to much of counter strike and how to make it counter strike. forget it counterstrike is gay so go play that and stop complaining here.

http://www3.telus.net/robert/sig4.jpg

Picture form the 33rd ICH Flat water Canoe/kayak world championships./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
___________________________________
http://www.pogies.com/nelokayaksusa/wwwhtml/contents/compt_int_c1.htm
My dream canoe/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (link above)
i just need $2400/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 02:55 PM
rossd387 wrote:
- ok u are an idiot.
-
-
- 1. u have a lot of equipment on u plus ur weapons
- which is in ur hands not on ur bakc when ur doing
- this.
Dude it takes like a long time to get up. Anybody with a right mind will haul their asses back up when they are threatened to be overwhelmed - not slowly push 'emselves up. Oh yah what equipment do u have at ur back? The gun is in your hands so what? An mp5 in my hand and it takes me like 5 seconds to get up?
- thus is is interesting to do that in real
- life. be happy it does it at all

It's CQB game the thing isn't even needed in the first place.
-
- 2. u try strafing really fast with gear. and not
- fall once? do that in real life u wouldnt kill the
- enmy from bullets but from laughing when u smack ur
- butt on the ground

This is true except there's a thing called walking in a perpendicular direction, swivelling your torso and shooting without a loss of speed.
-
- 3. runnign is good. to late to change it anyway so
- deal with it,

LOL deal with it. These guys sprint too slow.
-
- 4. the game shoudl limit ur weapon the bulker it is.
- it would in real life a lot more than the game shows

True.
-
-
- u are thinking to much of counter strike and how to
- make it counter strike.
Counter-strike does not symbolize action gaming as you think it does, moron. Because it is FUN and has a good dose of ACTION at the same time, you decide to bad-mouth it. It's ok, I understand the mentality to be OPPOSITE of the majority - shows how damn unique you are right? OK so your building ur character and making yourself distinctive for attention. Geez... 70% of the cs-haters could be classified as the following. The rest just hate it coz they got pwned by some skilled player and a small % hate it because of the hacks, which are all but gone now.

-forget it counterstrike is
- gay so go play that and stop complaining here.

He's complaining coz he has every right to. And in a way, he's right. Also, think in perspective. Not everybody is an attention grabbing freak like you, so perhaps they DO enjoy CS. I'm not saying that RvS should be precisely like
CS (altho it's trying to be, and failing) but somethings just make no sense. It's going too far into the realism sense that things start going the other extreme - unrealistic because it's "trying to be too realistic."
-
<

<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:02 PM
look i ahve played coutnerstrike u stupid piece of crap. and i know how o argue against it. so just shut ur big fat stupid mouth, and come back once u have something worth reading to say


and i am not attention craving. he jsut made bad points so i point out why. u are also attention craving by pointing it out and in the same way i did. so shut up


-- 2. u try strafing really fast with gear. and not
-- fall once? do that in real life u wouldnt kill the
-- enmy from bullets but from laughing when u smack ur
-- butt on the ground
-
- This is true except there's a thing called walking
- in a perpendicular direction, swivelling your torso
- and shooting without a loss of speed.


ok that would make it even funnier if u ran into a pole


-- 3. runnign is good. to late to change it anyway so
-- deal with it,
-
- LOL deal with it. These guys sprint too slow.

not really considering what they are wearing







http://www3.telus.net/robert/sig4.jpg

Picture form the 33rd ICH Flat water Canoe/kayak world championships./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
___________________________________
http://www.pogies.com/nelokayaksusa/wwwhtml/contents/compt_int_c1.htm
My dream canoe/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (link above)
i just need $2400/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:40 PM
/me feels the love in this thread.

IRT the topic

- Instead of "stance up"
- and "stance down" commands, there should only be
- duck and prone

Agreed. This is extremely nice in America's Army.

- On another issue, why can your character
- only sway something like 30 degrees while proning?

From an aiming standpoint, you could only really aim well within the basic range you see ingame. It would be rather hard to hold your body still when you're twisted at the hip at a hard angle. (BTW, if you top forward or back, your character will adjust his body towards whichever direction you're facing, so you're not quite as limited as you think, you just have to adjust your body to change your aim.)

- 2-Why can the guy only strafe slowly? It is better
- to think of strafing as walking or running while
- facing sideways

Counter-Terrorists try to remain in control during any movement they do. The side stepping is an example of this. Sure, you're not sprinting in the direction you're moving, but you can still fire with a degree of accuirsy towards your target. Remember: Counter-Terrorists and SWAT teams must account for every single round they fire, they don't shoot if they can't hit (unless their playing a surpression role). If you're trying to get away, don't sidestep.

- 3-Even running sucks.

I like the running speed. Make it much faster and you'll get excessive rushing (not like people do already.) I've never found myself unable to get away from a grenade because of my running speed.

- 4-Other than that, I´d say that the only other
- thing that REALLY bugs me is when you get stuck on
- walls and door thresholds, you all know the feeling.

Actually, no, I don't quite understand what you mean. Weapon size has no effect on the amount of area you take up, so I've never been "stuck" in a tight place.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:27 PM
I think he's referring to the ladder bugs maybe.



Message Edited on 10/14/0302:06PM by Witness

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:34 PM
This is majorly off the topic but.... Canoe/kayak world championships??? Hahahahaahaahahahaa... haaaahahahahahaahaaa....

Sorry... I don't know why that seems funny to me. Maybe I need more sleep.

~AD

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:01 PM
What he means (and he's right) is the fact u get stuck in the dumbest places: while running along a wall, while turning a corner, while going up a staircase.

They probably tried to add realism in the wrong way. Totally forgetting that bullets go through cardboard boxes, that sniper rifle bullets go through wood (that means trees and wooden floors too), that people cannot get only wounded with 5.56 rounds in the head, that finishing a match with 45 hits and 7 kills while using a G36K is bs, AND (this comes from recent experiences) that a game CANNOT have 30-45ms pings while played in a LAN situation.

They totally missed the "playability" point.

For the Flat Water Canoeing genious: we're trying to discuss the defects of a game we like, not competing on who practices the dumbest sport. Try civil arguments.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:15 PM
for those with complaints. not everything in this world will meet your standards. this also applies to games. it's either you like it or not. stop complaining and go find a decent game to play or go make your own.

will complaining on these forums change anything? or did you just want to hype up a lame *** debate? me personally i like RVS, i too would make some changes or wouldn't mind seeing things done differently in the game but overall i'm satisfied and again IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!!!

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:35 PM
1) Prone and stand up:
It´s to slow, yes. Should be more dynamic, cuz it´s a CQB game, it should be faster.

2) Strafe:
Yes, sidestep is too lame, should be same fast as forward move, cuz walking at all is very low.

3) Running:
It´s ok in the way, that these kind of movement is just to be faster than walking and still control your weapon and not to be fast at all, so it shouldn´t be too fast. But a third movement option (sprint) like in AA:O would be fine, but to stop hardcore rushing a stamina should be in the game, to make it realistic and tactical and not an always used "tools".

Message Edited on 10/14/0307:38PM by Cpt.Cordalez

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:42 PM
you lay down in full gear, then pop up and aim, not going to be too fast is it?





My ladder stats. (http://ladder.ubi.com/index.asp?gamename=RAVENSHIELD&ladderid=0&modeid=0&lan=en&FILTERCHANGE=1&SELECT_ALIAS=EXACT&INPUT_ALIAS=IDPA_Master&SELECT_COUNTRY=&SELECT_RATING=EQUAL&INPUT_RATING=&SELECT_KILL=EQUAL&INPUT_KILL=&SELECT_DEATH=EQUAL&INPUT_DEATH=&SELECT_COMBAT=EQUAL&INPUT_COMBAT=&x=41&y=10) Albeit not good.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:44 PM
Also, someone said DOD style of running. This isn't WWII, they were some untrained souls that got murdered in mass quantities. We have a little more trainging in this day and age.

My ladder stats. (http://ladder.ubi.com/index.asp?gamename=RAVENSHIELD&ladderid=0&modeid=0&lan=en&FILTERCHANGE=1&SELECT_ALIAS=EXACT&INPUT_ALIAS=IDPA_Master&SELECT_COUNTRY=&SELECT_RATING=EQUAL&INPUT_RATING=&SELECT_KILL=EQUAL&INPUT_KILL=&SELECT_DEATH=EQUAL&INPUT_DEATH=&SELECT_COMBAT=EQUAL&INPUT_COMBAT=&x=41&y=10) Albeit not good.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:57 PM
IDPA_Master wrote:
- you lay down in full gear, then pop up and aim, not
- going to be too fast is it?

And what is a full gear for you? A metal suit? Definitely not.
Those operators aren´t army soldiers, they have no fat rucksacks, with all this stuff. Counter Terrorist have only their kevlar vest, extra ammo, grenades, some equipment. Sure, it´s heavy, but not that heavy. Heavyarmor is another story.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 08:57 PM
juliano-brazil wrote:

-
- 1-Why does it take 5 minutes for the guy to go from
- a prone position to standing up? Is he really fat?
- Damn, if I where proning someplace and suddenly I
- noticed that I was about to be pinned down and shot,
- I´d get up as fast as you can blink, no matter how
- much weight I was carrying. Instead of "stance up"
- and "stance down" commands, there should only be
- duck and prone, like every other game where it works
- perfectly. On another issue, why can your character
- only sway something like 30 degrees while proning? I
- know that if you´re proning you have to slightly
- change position to face something on your, say, 3 or
- 9 o´clock, but if your life depends on it you won´t
- mind "slightly changing position".

This is a CQB game, and last time I checked, going to a knee in this game is pretty much instantaneous. If you're hoping for realism here(Which it seems like you are) When are you going to go prone besides sniping? When was the last time you saw a team blitz into a room, and then go prone? If they're taking lead, they wont go prone, because that movement is too slow, and in cqb, you're not gonna have much to hide behind. Now, there are instances when you may need to go prone, and you can go prone on this game, just not instantly, because usually you're not going to have to, and if you do find yourself needing this, adopt a more realistic way of playing.

- 2-Why can the guy only strafe slowly? It is better
- to think of strafing as walking or running while
- facing sideways, instead of walking sideways, which
- is stupid and nobody does in RL. This also counts
- for crouching. It might be hard to walk in any
- direction while crouching, but if push comes to
- shove you´ll do it as fast as you can run in RL. I
- cannot count the amount of times I´ve been shot by
- an NPC because your character moves like a ******
- unless he´s running straight forwards.

the strafe speed is plenty fast enough. You have to be able to move while keeping your balance. Remeber that even a tiny trip would throw your aim off horribly, thus ending in you dying. Now, you stated that in reality, if an operative needed to get to cover while he was crouched, how often is that going to happen in this game? If they can shoot you, you can shoot them, so why run? If theyre that much of a threat to you, you should already be dead, so dont run, shoot.

- 3-Even running sucks. Perhaps the game would be
- better if it adopted the system in dod, where you
- have a slow walk, a jog and a "run for your life",
- in which you can´t fire.

Oh, yes, a run for your life where you cant shoot. That would be very useful in this game, lets run down a hallway without being able to shoot and having a guy pop out and shoot your team up because you guys wanted to get there faster. This is in someone's sig, and I like it a lot.

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast"

The run speed is plenty fast enough anyways, there arent many times when I've found myself wishing I could run away at a faster speed. (Except for maybe a grenade is tossed into the room, but just get behind something, not run out of the room into hostile fire)

- 4-Other than that, I´d say that the only other
- thing that REALLY bugs me is when you get stuck on
- walls and door thresholds, you all know the feeling.
- I know, I know, The game limits your movement the
- bulkier your weapon is, but I think there are better
- ways to do this, ways which don´t make you feel so
- impotent.

The gun isnt getting stuck on the walls.. you are. Your gun moves in and out of the walls due to some annoying type of coding. I like in AA that whenever you get close enough to a wall, your soldier bends the gun down, which is how this game should be, but oh well. This game is very easy going for people using large guns like an m60. You can run through a room just as easy as you can with an mp5. In reality, this wouldnt happen, not just because an m60 is a lot heavier and not really meant for shooting on the move, but because of how large it is to get through a door frame. You couldnt fully extend it in a tight hallway which is something else the game fails to show. I hope that in the future, whenever you get close to a wall you face your gun down, and it doesnt just go through it.

- That´s about it. I am absolutely sure that if
- these few suggestions were abided, the game would
- improve 100%; and this is not a question of opinion,
- it´s true I grant you. Just my hope that someday we
- can have a decent counter-terrorism game, and get
- rid of counter-strike.

You're just full of yourself at this point. I just stated everything unrealistic about your ideas, which means that this wouldnt be getting farther from counter strike, itd be getting closer.




http://www.frailart.net/members/jackathan/JackathanSig2.jpg

</img>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 09:11 PM
Ze_Biatch wrote:
- What he means (and he's right) is the fact u get
- stuck in the dumbest places: while running along a
- wall, while turning a corner, while going up a
- staircase.

Do you mean you're getting "stuck" (stopped is more like it) by bumping into things that extend from a otherwise flat wall/surface?

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:15 PM
Yea, that's exactly what I mean. Stuff like door frames and minor protuberances. Sometimes I find myself running along a flat wall and getting stuck for some reason without any obstacle being there.

I understand it DOES happen to get stuck in a doorframe in real life, but I think there's a list of priorities when u wanna go realistic. I think we wanna take care of ballistics and more important realism elements, rather than doorframes or bent wooden tiles to trip over.

And to those who keep busting balls about people criticizing, just shut up and let people talk. You don't have complaints, just keep out of these discussions then.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:10 AM
Geez people

Perhaps some of you don´t understand the motives of my suggestions. The reason I´d like to be able to strafe faster is not to shoot people while doing it, but to escape from a compromised position. The same goes for running: although in dod they have the "sprint" command, people hardly ever use it for attack, since your weapon is down; but more for escape. But I´d be more flexible on the running issue.
Oh, and I wasn´t referring to the "ladder bug" you guys talk about.

Rossd387 are you gargantuanly fat? Maybe you´re lying about the whole canoe stuff. I truly doubt you would get up from a prone position as slow as the character in RS if you where about to be shot. And what super heavy equipment is he wearing? Kevlar, helmet, flak jacket with 6 grenades, probably radio (which is modernly pretty light-weight and compact), and some other body protection like kneepads and sorts. This is nothing for an operative, they have to be strong like a fireman or a lumberjack (hehe).He´s not in an astronaut suit. You must be one of those fundamentalist rainbow-six fan-boy *****s, lacking any creativity and capacity to think of something different. Everyone other than you that disagreed actually made a point which I respect. You seem kind of dumb, did you not read the part where I say I wouldn´t want to make the game counter-strike?

Speaking of counter-strike, the reason I don´t like counter-strike (I was pretty good at it, just sucked at sniping), is not that it is not fun -it´s very fun, I won´t deny that; but that I´d like something more realistic-looking and role-play inspiring, where you don´t see the al qaeda, nazis and colombian guerrilas playing in the same team on a map that looks like no place you could possibly see on this earth such as aztec or cobble. But you see,fanboys, I used to be a lot like you in the days of Rogue Spear. And generally, I still don´t like counterstrikers -unless they recognize the fact that taking a 9mm on the face and not being affected is bs. But I will say this: counterstrikers have a VERY GOOD REASON for not liking the rainbow games. It´s just not as dynamic, and doesn´t pump as much adrenaline as it could.
People, do recognize a fact: Every new issue of a rainbow game, the game movement gets more flexible. Although some more traditionalist players would see this as selling out or something, I see it as coming to terms with the idea of making a game that´s realistic and has good action at the same time.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:31 AM
Ze Biatch wrote:
-And to those who keep busting balls about people criticizing, just shut up and let people talk. You don't have complaints, just keep out of these discussions then.


Good point. Afterall, this is a forum. What the hell, do these people think that forums are for talking endlessly about how you unconditionally a game?

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:02 AM
shards_of_alt wrote:
- WHY WOULD CT's NOT wear ANY KEVLAR? (in mp)


They do wear kevlar in MP. Look closer.

<center>http://members.cox.net/atlantisr0x/atlantis.jpg </center>

UBI, RELEASE THE SDK!!!

-Atlantis

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:36 AM
juliano-brazil wrote:

- Rossd387 are you gargantuanly fat? Maybe you´re
- lying about the whole canoe stuff. I truly doubt you
- would get up from a prone position as slow as the
- character in RS if you where about to be shot. And
- what super heavy equipment is he wearing? Kevlar,
- helmet, flak jacket with 6 grenades, probably radio
- (which is modernly pretty light-weight and compact),
- and some other body protection like kneepads and
- sorts. This is nothing for an operative, they have
- to be strong like a fireman or a lumberjack
- (hehe).He´s not in an astronaut suit. You must be
- one of those fundamentalist rainbow-six fan-boy
- *****s, lacking any creativity and capacity to think
- of something different. Everyone other than you that
- disagreed actually made a point which I respect. You
- seem kind of dumb, did you not read the part where I
- say I wouldn´t want to make the game counter-strike?

Im just not getting when you need to go prone. When are you going to be prone and have an enemy run up and shoot you? If this happens, you deserve to be shot, just like in reality. Going prone in cqb is a very dangerous move. You cant move much, you're a sitting duck, and if anyone comes up behind you, you dont have a prayer. And, I would like to see how fast you can get up without all of that gear on, and still keep your gun on target? You have to keep that into account, when you stand up, you're not using your hands, beause theyre holding your gun. They get up quite quickly considering the circumstances. First they have to go to their knee, and then to a full upright stance.


http://www.frailart.net/members/jackathan/JackathanSig2.jpg

</img>

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 10:51 AM
rossd387 wrote:
- look i ahve played coutnerstrike u stupid piece of
- crap. and i know how o argue against it. so just
- shut ur big fat stupid mouth, and come back once u
- have something worth reading to say
-
-
- and i am not attention craving. he jsut made bad
- points so i point out why. u are also attention
- craving by pointing it out and in the same way i
- did. so shut up
-
-
--- 2. u try strafing really fast with gear. and not
--- fall once? do that in real life u wouldnt kill the
--- enmy from bullets but from laughing when u smack ur
--- butt on the ground
--
-- This is true except there's a thing called walking
-- in a perpendicular direction, swivelling your torso
-- and shooting without a loss of speed.
-
-
- ok that would make it even funnier if u ran into a
- pole
-
-
--- 3. runnign is good. to late to change it anyway so
--- deal with it,
--
-- LOL deal with it. These guys sprint too slow.
-
- not really considering what they are wearing
-
-
-
-LOL. Do you take psychology? Nope. Do I? No, I don't either. Too bad I have a natural talent for it. Tell me, what makes ME an attention grabbing freak?
One more thing bud, u said u could "argue against it" coz u played CS. Well you haven't said anything/argued against anything yet.



<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:13 PM
This is majorly off the topic but.... Canoe/kayak world championships??? Hahahahaahaahahahaa... haaaahahahahahaahaaa.... Sorry... I don't know why that seems funny to me. Maybe I need more sleep. ~AD ' you wrote this. its not funny. so shut ur face till u know what it is. and its my sig. i will not have u flaming my sig.



Sorry man... like I said, it just seemed really fun to me at the time.

~AD

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:47 PM
One more thing bud, u said u could "argue against it" coz u played CS. Well you haven't said anything/argued against anything yet.



why should i? there has been nothign to argue against, as u havent siad to mcuh about it either. so just shut up. leave it.



(this does not mean i accept defeat. it means it will do no good to pursue this useless arguement)

http://www3.telus.net/robert/sig4.jpg

Picture form the 33rd ICH Flat water Canoe/kayak world championships./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
___________________________________
http://www.pogies.com/nelokayaksusa/wwwhtml/contents/compt_int_c1.htm
My dream canoe/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (link above)
i just need $2400/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:07 PM
You guys are nuts. If you want an arcade game go to counterstrike or a better one, Delta Force: Black Hawk Down.

If you want more realism, shut your traps and enjoy what Red Storm and Ubi Soft give us. The one improvement that I can see that is a REAL improvement not a move toward becoming more arcade (speeding up movements makes it more of an arcade game) is something someone else already suggested: Copy the move in America's Army where if you get too close to a wall, fence or other object, you point your gun downward because the object is solid and you can't point your gun through it. That would add more realism.

Suggestions about fast strafing would reduce realism. Go play something else if you don't like it the way it is. Most of us love it the way it is.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:19 PM
I like Counter-Strike................

but if I want realism.....I'll play Americas Army.

^^


----------------------------------
42nd Infantry Division
113th Infantry Regiment (Mortars)
New Jersey Guard

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:55 PM
Getting up with lots of equipment isn't hard or slow.

I've carried 4 full mags, a rifle, water bottle, smoke grenades, wore body armour (not kevlar), mess tins, food, water proof clothing and a bag of around 500 more bullets in the rain (wet clothes are heavyer than dry ones for those that miss that point) and i don't remember any problems getting up due to the weight.

It's a simple task of shoving yourself up with one hand and wedging your knee under your body to push yourself upright. So to sum it up in the game getting up from prone is slow to real life but i'm sure if you're getting up with something like the M60 in your hands it's about right.

If in the game the time it takes getting up is to simulate someone getting up without using their hands (as some one said earlier) it might be about right. Although you shouldn't believe everything you see in game as they also open doors without hands.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:15 AM
Indeed... yer guys should stand up faster, but as far as seperate keys for proning and crouching... It get's a little complicated with Fluid Movement.... I used to be an avid CS player... but after playing Raven-Shield for about 4 months, I tried to return to CS... and I'm sorry... but it's crap compared to Raven Shield.... Sure it's fun for runnin' and stuff, but as far as intensity and realism... Off the deep end. I enjoy the ability to use my Fluid Movement button in Ravenshield to get that "oh-so-perfect" stance once in a while.
(ya... multiple buttons worked fine in all othergames.... what other game had fluid??? Answer that one.)

When your talking about strafing.... I don't understand what you mean by slowly... I strafe the same speed I run
(and it almost seems FASTER for moving around corners) Be sure you are holding down your run button while your strafing (or got always-run selected.) Personally... I don't got always-run selected because you are too inacurate while running, and I save that for my charges and point blank movement.

One area where I really AGREE with you though, is getting stuck on walls. In real life, you'd just trip through it, scrape off some skin and move on, but nope... I get stuck on the doorway and my suprise handgun charge suddenly looks like a ****** opening a door and standing in the doorway with his foot cought on the otherside. And I'd really like a sprint too... especially dives when gimped... when a grenade lands next to me, no matter how much my leg hurts, I'm gonna want to make a hectic dive off to the side, and If I'm not gimped, I'm gonna run like the wind.

(Having no equipment or primary should let you run faster, with all that lack of weight... pistol,4mags and armor should be relatively light.)



There's one change that I'm surprised you didn't mention.

It lacks the ability to grab other people's weapons... really messes up a scenario when you're doing Terrorist Hunt and your snipers dead. In real life you wouldn't result to running in like rambo, you'd take yer buddies sniper and finnish the job...
This should at least be implemented in COOP.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:50 AM
in the recent war, there have been numerous cases where it would take 10 or so shots to drop someone with their .223 m16's

and from my understaning, the .223 ammo was mainly meant to injure and nor kill, unlike the .308

i have no argument with the time it takes to stand tall from being prone, strafe speed, or run speed

http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/4cd7f0302188dd/msnbc.com/news/1996856.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:28 AM
... its also made to pirce body armor. Something that the AK-47 can't do with its slower round.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:39 AM
rossd387 wrote:
- One more thing bud, u said u could "argue against
- it" coz u played CS. Well you haven't said
- anything/argued against anything yet.
-
-
-
- why should i? there has been nothign to argue
- against, as u havent siad to mcuh about it either.
- so just shut up. leave it.
-
-
-
- (this does not mean i accept defeat. it means it
- will do no good to pursue this useless arguement)
-
- ___________________________________

Dude... tell me how making running faster and proning/faster will make it like CS.
Cs doesn't even have prone.
Running faster is USEFUL. Strategically useful. The current "run" is a job. The walking needs a little bit of speed up otherwise i think it's ok.
LOL u r definitely a CS hater. And 70% cs-haters crave attention... ok to be honest, it's human nature so mabye it's my wrong to call u attention freak, my apologies.
Now respond to the rest of the stuff i said.

<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 09:45 AM
Red_Dog_Dragon wrote:
- ... its also made to pirce body armor. Something
- that the AK-47 can't do with its slower round.

Yes, cuz AK-47 shoots 9mm rounds.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:01 AM
I can't believe what I am reading here. The game running speed is fine. The operatives are supposed to moving at a jog, so that they can have a bit of accuracy.

The prone position is VERY important to have in a game like this, SNIPING is an important tactic. The speed at which the operatives go to prone and up again is fine, considering the gear. They are supposed to be controlled movements, not "jump up for your life" movements.

Jackathan is correct about everything.

Cpt. Cordalez, I hope you are joking, because the AK-47 shoots a 7.62x39mm round.

I think a lot of you are missing the point of the game.

Either that or you have never fired a gun.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 11:34 AM
El_Nutjob wrote:
- Cpt. Cordalez, I hope you are joking, because the
- AK-47 shoots a 7.62x39mm round.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif of course I´m joking, cuz Red Dog Dragon said the AK 7,62 can´t penetrate body armor, lol.

I don´t like RvS, but what I like is the movement (not the controls), cuz the run speed, walk, and other are ok, for this kind of special forces game, what I really hate is the weapon handling, that´s very crappy and destroys avery realism.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 11:49 AM
IDPA_Master wrote:
- Also, someone said DOD style of running. This isn't
- WWII, they were some untrained souls that got
- murdered in mass quantities. We have a little more
- trainging in this day and age.


I think he is merely suggesting that a R6 operator should have the endurance to run for 10-15 metres at an increased speed, and require a period of recovery..

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 12:27 PM
Cpt.Cordalez wrote:
- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif of course I´m joking, cuz Red Dog Dragon said the
- AK 7,62 can´t penetrate body armor, lol.

The modern kevlar helmet can stop the AK 7.62 round, and kevlar coupled with an optional breast plate (like US Soldiers use) can also stop an AK round.

The difference is in the shell casing. 5.56mm NATO travels a deal faster so hits with more force. There's a difference between the AK-47 7.62mm round then the 7.62mm you find in other rifles.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 03:17 PM
El_Nutjob wrote:
- I can't believe what I am reading here. The game
- running speed is fine. The operatives are supposed
- to moving at a jog, so that they can have a bit of
- accuracy.

But they currently don't anyway. Or mabye it's the hit detection/netcode *shrug*
-
- The prone position is VERY important to have in a
- game like this, SNIPING is an important tactic.

In a CQB game? YOU DO NOT SNIPE in close combat... except for peaks n' mabye prison sniping is not necessary. Prone is especially unnecessary.




<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 01:14 AM
it provides better accuracy. i think i would take my head down to if i had bullets comeing at em wounldnt u? if not ur the stupidest person to walk the earth



and for the running. all u want is where u can run like a sprinter and rush everyone and end the eintire game in 15 secs. whats the fun in that? thats pretty gay in my books. nad u try running that fast with gear



how many more gay people can we pull into this thread?

http://www3.telus.net/robert/sig4.jpg

Picture form the 33rd ICH Flat water Canoe/kayak world championships./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
___________________________________
http://www.pogies.com/nelokayaksusa/wwwhtml/contents/compt_int_c1.htm
My dream canoe/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (link above)
i just need $2400/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 02:31 AM
"how many more gay people can we pull into this thread? "


http://www.eltonjohn.com/now/images/elton_8_news.jpg

Man, thers another.


http://www.frailart.net/members/jackathan/JackathanSig2.jpg

</img>



Message Edited on 10/17/0301:32AM by Jackathan

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 03:01 AM
http://www.joecartoon.com/cartoons/teenage.html

http://myweb.cableone.net/fireingwire/fusion2.jpg http://myweb.cableone.net/fireingwire/2-12350-iraq.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 03:10 AM
shards_of_alt wrote:

- In a CQB game? YOU DO NOT SNIPE in close combat...
- except for peaks n' mabye prison sniping is not
- necessary. Prone is especially unnecessary.

I thought we were trying to get more realism. You can go prone in real life so I think it should be part of the game. Prone is important in some parts of maps as a means of escape or reducing your profile. It's also a good source of comedy like exploding barrels and death googles.

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:01 AM
How do things go in real life?
You think Ct's walk into enemy encampments?
No, they rush in, kick open doors and surprise the hell out of people. Things are fast, swift and concise.
And NO ct will prone in a small indoors environment.

<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:27 PM
shards_of_alt wrote:
- How do things go in real life?
- You think Ct's walk into enemy encampments?
- No, they rush in, kick open doors and surprise the
- hell out of people. Things are fast, swift and
- concise.

wtmf kick open doors??? u watch too many action movies. CTs conventionally use choke tubes to bust down doors (im surprised these were not implemented in the game). the whole door breaching with buckshot is kinda unrealistic because u could a hostage or civilian on the other side (there is special door breach ammo for tactical shotguns, but those were not implemented in the game).

other than that, i agree with everything else u said.


----------------------------------------------------------------
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/414231/Sig3.jpg

One bullet, that's all I need...

In game name -- Vandal

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/414231/Sig3.jpg

One bullet, that's all I need...

In game name -- Vandal

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:05 AM
70% of all cs haters crave attention, thats the most ignorant thing I have ever heard! I swear to god if I lived with 50 miles of you I would squeeze your neck till every last bit of your saliva had dripped on to your floor, then I would put it in nice little bottles and send them to all less intelligent than you.

Rainbow six is based on realism, they dont want it SLIGHTLY more arcade like, they dont care if you dont like it...infact I bet there glad ignorant jerks dont like there game,

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:25 AM
"Yearning for the ultimate Counter-Terrorism based game"

Its was called Rouge Spear....

To the original poster, Dont listen to the fanboys, Most of us know this game aint the dope, and indeed needs help.

IMO, All the freaking (overdone) realistic elements killed this game. Rogue Spear had it smack on IMO, it was FUN AS HELL.

This corner of tactical fps games is small enough as it is, and they made it smaller by taking the exiting.. and ill go as far as to say (Some-ARCADE'ish) elements out of it.

IMO The game needs to feel more like its predicesor for one, The CLIMB needs to come back, and More insertions capabilitys need to be added as was in the past.

The graphics/map making has come a LONG way.... but the game itself was missed on the way.... so let the fan boys say what they want... Let the numbers do the talking and go look at how many people play this game "and how many servers" ther are...

Then also goto the bargin bin at your computer store and look at RVS sandwitched between "1001 Windows Card Games" and "Barnny and Friends" ....

And while you are there look at all the new games coming out.

This game has still IMO a LOT of potential, and could still make a comeback in a huge way if it was MORE like RS, with a climb and total ret feel, Also more insertion point control for mappers.

The elements are ther for something great, We even got PB, that really impressed me alot, Now If only Ubi got the FEEL right...Man-o-Man!

All they need to do is make a server sided switch to alow current mode of play and maybe a "Classic Mode" like the old RS... then we would ALL be happy.

And Ubi can also make more money, If devs still read the forums here and really want to make a difference, think about this "Toggle Idea" and make the Classic mode as close as you can to RS... And I would bet my left nut that you would see the numbers of servers/players increase in no time.

Cuz its not looking that hot player/server wise.

I bet you if you open up the original UT ther will be over 2 times the amount of players ther is playing RVS at any given time, and the games 5 years old, that tells you something. How many people do you see playing this in 5 years? LOL!

It dont HAVE to be that way! And ther is a reason why its like this.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:22 AM
MikeDaMan wrote:
- IMO, All the freaking (overdone) realistic elements
- killed this game. Rogue Spear had it smack on IMO,
- it was FUN AS HELL.

Funny, most complaints about RvS is because its not realistic enough.

- This corner of tactical fps games is small enough as
- it is, and they made it smaller by taking the
- exiting.. and ill go as far as to say
- (Some-ARCADE'ish) elements out of it.

Again, RvS added more "arcade'ish" elements to R6. I wasn't a hardcore RS player, but I don't remember being able to spray and pray like you can in RvS.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 07:06 AM
Sainku wrote:
- 70% of all cs haters crave attention, thats the most
- ignorant thing I have ever heard! I swear to god if
- I lived with 50 miles of you I would squeeze your
- neck till every last bit of your saliva had dripped
- on to your floor, then I would put it in nice little
- bottles and send them to all less intelligent than
- you.

I know what i'm talkin' about bud.
-
- Rainbow six is based on realism, they dont want it
- SLIGHTLY more arcade like, they dont care if you
- dont like it...infact I bet there glad ignorant
- jerks dont like there game,

???
Of course RvS is based on realism. It's just not realistic enough. Notice than the so-called "running and gunning" is possible to a certain degree in real life. Especially at distances of 10 feet. Can you do that in RvS? No. Or mabye it was the netcode that made me miss 60 bullets with my m249. Yeah, it's a machine gun, I shouldn't have gone runnin' out with it but it was a test.

*sigh*

The term "arcade" has been abused too long. Some arcade elements exist in "realism" as well. Arcade simply means alot of action - not whether the game in question follows real life closely or not. Now the thing is, real life CT action is pretty adrenaline-inducing. And pretty explosive. And there's alot of action, especially in the hypthosized situation of MP (i.e. players know opposition is within close vicinity).

Why the attention u ask? Why do people generally HATE cs?
A coupla reasons: They got pwned by some cal-clanner, h4x0red repeatedly (rarely the reason), affected by peers, or they wanna do the opposite of the majority. In other words, gratifying personal image. In other words, making 'emselves more distinctive than others in order to gain attention. Thus the term "attention-craving freak" is in fact pretty damn accurate. It may be seen as an insult ("freak") or it could be seen as merely an analogy of human psychology ("attention"). Afterall, it is human nature to make onself into the fittest survivor.*

Attention = higher chance of survival. It's a primal instinct.
-
-



<The same thing I would say to my future girlfriend>

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 08:10 AM
shards_of_alt wrote:
- How do things go in real life?
-
They punch in GPS coordinates and wait for a B52 to drop JDAM's from several miles above?

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 08:22 AM
-The difference is in the shell casing. 5.56mm NATO travels a deal faster so hits with more force. There's a difference between the AK-47 7.62mm round then the 7.62mm you find in other rifles.

Actually the 5.56 round only has 1200ish Joules of energy at the muzzle vs the 7.62 x 39 having 2000ish. You are talking a 22 cal bullet vs a 30 cal bullet. The 5.56 does more damage because it fragments easier then the russian round does...not because it hits with more energy.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 09:05 AM
oh goody.....YET ANOTHER thread on bullet types, measurements, velocities....etc



----------------------------------
42nd Infantry Division
113th Infantry Regiment (Mortars)
New Jersey Guard

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:41 PM
MikeDaMan wrote:
- IMO, All the freaking (overdone) realistic elements
- killed this game.

Which one? One thing, that killed the game is the aiming (I mean the reticule spread), that isn´t realistic, that´s unrealistic.
The movement is realistic and it doesn´t kill the game. The unrealistic parts killed the game.

Look americas army it is realistic (in most parts) and it kicks ***.